Just thought I’d provide some information from a Giants team employee.
-Giants LOVE D White but think #6 is too high and #17 he will be gone. So they are discussing internally about packaging #17/pick/player to move up.
-They are torn on Murray/Haskins vs 2020 QBs vs Rosen.
If Rosen they do not want to give us 1st round pick. If they do trade for QB this year aka Rosen, it will be heavy heavy defensive draft.
-There have been discussions on moving Jenkins, Shepherd, Ogletree but nothing serious at the moment.
-They like the Wisconsin o-lineman and Clemson d-lineman.
Some info might be known but just thought Id share. Anything else Ill post here or anything new I hear. Thanks - Go Giants!
As far as other options, I’m a big proponent of going heavy on defense. I very much like the move of moving up to get white in packaging the #17 pick and a player. I do hope that we can get a good RT in this draft.
Agree, given Shurmur’s rather nice body of work with Foles, Bradford, Bridgewater, Keenum
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
Things may have changed with Miami ostensibly in need of a starter. If so and if we want Rosen, it now may take our 17th to make it happen, no?
Miami's interest is in Tua. Ross has a man-crush on him. They will field the least competitive team to ensure they are sitting at the top of the draft in 2020.
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
Things may have changed with Miami ostensibly in need of a starter. If so and if we want Rosen, it now may take our 17th to make it happen, no?
There's some rumbling that they're seriously considering Kaepernick. Not sure if that'll come to pass or not, but... there's that.
Greedy has fallen into the 2nd round for a few talent evaluators. I’d be upset with him at 17.
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In comment 14340713 arcarsenal said:
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
Things may have changed with Miami ostensibly in need of a starter. If so and if we want Rosen, it now may take our 17th to make it happen, no?
There's some rumbling that they're seriously considering Kaepernick. Not sure if that'll come to pass or not, but... there's that.
Well there was a shot out of left field
That would be a matter of wishful thinking. Greedy won't be on the board at #17.
I would love Cody Ford or Hockenson at #17 if we are staying pat.
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In comment 14340713 arcarsenal said:
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
Things may have changed with Miami ostensibly in need of a starter. If so and if we want Rosen, it now may take our 17th to make it happen, no?
There's some rumbling that they're seriously considering Kaepernick. Not sure if that'll come to pass or not, but... there's that.
^ if that’s true the whole front office needs to be cleaned out
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
If we sign Remmers to starter $$$ do you still put OT@17 as top priority?
I would go somewhere else at 17 Like either Devin Bush (if its Sweat or Allen if he drops @6) or One of those highly ranked CBs. Then at 37 I'd seriously consider Hakeem Butler or AJ Brown should he drop that far. Otherwise then maybe an OT or OC or versatile guy like Risner
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In comment 14340814 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 14340713 arcarsenal said:
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
Things may have changed with Miami ostensibly in need of a starter. If so and if we want Rosen, it now may take our 17th to make it happen, no?
There's some rumbling that they're seriously considering Kaepernick. Not sure if that'll come to pass or not, but... there's that.
^ if that’s true the whole front office needs to be cleaned out
I'm talking about Miami - not the Giants (sorry if that wasn't clear)
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Forgot to add - Re: Jenkins, they are looking at G Williams as possible pick with #17 as well.
Greedy has fallen into the 2nd round for a few talent evaluators. I’d be upset with him at 17.
upside is thru the roof with him but character questions too
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
If we sign Remmers to starter $$$ do you still put OT@17 as top priority?
I would go somewhere else at 17 Like either Devin Bush (if its Sweat or Allen if he drops @6) or One of those highly ranked CBs. Then at 37 I'd seriously consider Hakeem Butler or AJ Brown should he drop that far. Otherwise then maybe an OT or OC or versatile guy like Risner
I'd still be looking there, but I'd never be married to a position @ each juncture of the draft - obviously that's a sub-optimal way of approaching it.
I really want to beef up this line. A ORT would also allow us to potentially groom him to play on the left side and take over for Solder after we cut him following 2020.
That said - CB is still a huge, huge need. I am on board with taking one anywhere in the draft outside of 6.
Like both of those WR's (Brown, Butler) - also looking for a WR within the first 3 rds.
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
If we sign Remmers to starter $$$ do you still put OT@17 as top priority?
If we are signing Remmers to starter money, then I expect Abrams/DG to structure it where if he is beat out by competition then it doesn't hurt the bottom line. The draft is about the future and talent acquisition. On the OL, the only 2 positions that are locked up are Hernandez and Zeitler. The others can and should be upgraded over the next few drafts. If Cody is the highest rated OT at #17 and his rating is higher than other players, than you take the BPA. Let the best player win. With $100M to spare in next year's cap, if we have to eat $10M because the draftee beat out a penciled in starter so be it.
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In comment 14340713 arcarsenal said:
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
If we sign Remmers to starter $$$ do you still put OT@17 as top priority?
If we are signing Remmers to starter money, then I expect Abrams/DG to structure it where if he is beat out by competition then it doesn't hurt the bottom line. The draft is about the future and talent acquisition. On the OL, the only 2 positions that are locked up are Hernandez and Zeitler. The others can and should be upgraded over the next few drafts. If Cody is the highest rated OT at #17 and his rating is higher than other players, than you take the BPA. Let the best player win. With $100M to spare in next year's cap, if we have to eat $10M because the draftee beat out a penciled in starter so be it.
Not saying throw BPA out the window. However there could be equal talent especially on the D side of the ball at a bigger current need position than OL (if we sign Remmers).
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In comment 14340713 arcarsenal said:
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
If we sign Remmers to starter $$$ do you still put OT@17 as top priority?
I would go somewhere else at 17 Like either Devin Bush (if its Sweat or Allen if he drops @6) or One of those highly ranked CBs. Then at 37 I'd seriously consider Hakeem Butler or AJ Brown should he drop that far. Otherwise then maybe an OT or OC or versatile guy like Risner
I'd still be looking there, but I'd never be married to a position @ each juncture of the draft - obviously that's a sub-optimal way of approaching it.
I really want to beef up this line. A ORT would also allow us to potentially groom him to play on the left side and take over for Solder after we cut him following 2020.
That said - CB is still a huge, huge need. I am on board with taking one anywhere in the draft outside of 6.
Like both of those WR's (Brown, Butler) - also looking for a WR within the first 3 rds.
The good thing about being such an awful team is that we need talent at any position outside of RB. Getting talent into the pipeline is the only way to lift this roster out of the funk that it has been in. BPA. If BPA is a CB - great. If BPA is a TE - great. Just get the highest rated guy and let the talent/competition figure out the depth chart.
I would have zero qualms taking him at 6. In fact, if Quinnen, Bosa and Allen are all gone, he's the one I'd take.
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In comment 14340713 arcarsenal said:
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
Things may have changed with Miami ostensibly in need of a starter. If so and if we want Rosen, it now may take our 17th to make it happen, no?
There's some rumbling that they're seriously considering Kaepernick. Not sure if that'll come to pass or not, but... there's that.
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In comment 14340856 Pan-handler said:
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In comment 14340713 arcarsenal said:
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
If we sign Remmers to starter $$$ do you still put OT@17 as top priority?
I would go somewhere else at 17 Like either Devin Bush (if its Sweat or Allen if he drops @6) or One of those highly ranked CBs. Then at 37 I'd seriously consider Hakeem Butler or AJ Brown should he drop that far. Otherwise then maybe an OT or OC or versatile guy like Risner
I'd still be looking there, but I'd never be married to a position @ each juncture of the draft - obviously that's a sub-optimal way of approaching it.
I really want to beef up this line. A ORT would also allow us to potentially groom him to play on the left side and take over for Solder after we cut him following 2020.
That said - CB is still a huge, huge need. I am on board with taking one anywhere in the draft outside of 6.
Like both of those WR's (Brown, Butler) - also looking for a WR within the first 3 rds.
The good thing about being such an awful team is that we need talent at any position outside of RB. Getting talent into the pipeline is the only way to lift this roster out of the funk that it has been in. BPA. If BPA is a CB - great. If BPA is a TE - great. Just get the highest rated guy and let the talent/competition figure out the depth chart.
Yup - I am not concerned much with position as much as I am drafting the absolute best football players we can and guys who fit what we're doing here and what our vision is.
No need to force pick for position - more likely than not, BPA will simultaneously fill a need one way or another.
trade #95 and a 2020 3rd for Rosen
#6-White
#17-burns
#37-Marquis or AJ Brown
or
#6-Sweat
#17-D Bush
#37-Marquis or AJ brown
those first three picks plus remmers and rosen would be a solid close to offseason
I would have zero qualms taking him at 6. In fact, if Quinnen, Bosa and Allen are all gone, he's the one I'd take.
+1
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The Rosen plan does make the most sense, though - IF he can be had for anything less than either of our 1's.
If so, then I'm going with the best defensive player @ 6, looking OT @ 17, WR @ 37... and then super defense heavy the rest of the way. Maybe a OC in rd 4 .
Obviously you can't script the draft that way and things will be fluid - but, I do think that's the best possible route for us if it's available.
Things may have changed with Miami ostensibly in need of a starter. If so and if we want Rosen, it now may take our 17th to make it happen, no?
It could require a 2nd to get Rosen.
trade #95 and a 2020 3rd for Rosen
#6-White
#17-burns
#37-Marquis or AJ Brown
or
#6-Sweat
#17-D Bush
#37-Marquis or AJ brown
those first three picks plus remmers and rosen would be a solid close to offseason
Don’t think Hollywood Brown will last till then
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In comment 14340706 djm said:
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I can see every other trade but that one would be a head scratcher. Ain’t buying it.
Maybe they are salivating at the prospects a White-Goodson ILB combination?
Goodson blows too
Sy'56 disagrees...
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for white then? why only consider trading up?
Thats my thought... Trade down, grab White & more picks.
If you really like White and trade down to get him at a so-called better value, what now if another team ahead of you takes him first?
That would be amazing.
Eric ran a poll to see which name BBI wanted to use and 'asshats' won
LOL, sounds a lot like Eli's whole career
On another note - for all this talk about waiting til next year I don't love the 2020 class. I've watched a lot of Tua and I like Murray more. Tue will be a 1st rounder, but I'm not sure he'll be top 10 pick when all said and done. Herbert, meh. He's got great tools but has yet to prove he can put it together. Fromm could be a stud - I could see him being the top guy next year.
I would be all for Rosen for a few reasons:
-You would get him at a great value.
-If he pans out, the next guy is in place.
-If he doesn’t pan out, draft a QB at 2020 with little consequence.
I’m intrigued by Murray.
Allow me to correct your math. Yes, for 2 stretches, Eli was the best QB in the NFL. It has made him a legend. But the other 90% of his career he has been an average QB who has never gotten past his rookie mistakes.
I am not a draftnik but follow the Badgers closely.
Dave Edwards is predicted to be drafted first - I've seen second/third. A QB -> TE-> RT he has been trending up till this past season where he flattened out. Hard to know to what degree injuries figured in.
Michael Dieter is the most versatile. Has played LT out of necessity but is an interior guy. Is the most polished technically and I think is the safest bet. I've seen 2nd/3rd round
Beau Benzschawel has been a fixture at RG. He is a mauler. I've seen 3rd-5th rounds
Apparently the Giants and Lions and Steelers were particularly involves at the Pro Day.
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to a young Eli is absurd. He's always been prone to bonehead plays, but he has also played some of the most clutch games and delivered some of the most clutch moments in football history. Those who choose to harp on the negatives with Eli's career simply only see 10% of the picture.
Allow me to correct your math. Yes, for 2 stretches, Eli was the best QB in the NFL. It has made him a legend. But the other 90% of his career he has been an average QB who has never gotten past his rookie mistakes.
How are you correcting my math? I didn't say he was amazing 90% of his career; I said he delivered some of the most clutch games and moments in the history of the league. To be honest that's enough for me; prior to Eli we had Warner, Collins, Graham, Brown, etc.....those were "average QB's". Eli wasn't ever a top 5 guy for longer than a year, but he was top 10 for over a decade; and by far the best QB had since Simms.
I think because he's an LB, which is not traditionally considered a "premium" position, so if you have a pick in the top 10 you tend to value getting a QB, DL, pass rushers, offensive tackles, etc. Barkley, as a RB, was an exception to the rule because he was simply a once-in-a-generation prospect. But in general spending 2 straight super high picks on a RB then a LB is not a good formula in the long term. This year they want to go big, because as we all know football is a game of inches and DG is a big believer that you win in the trenches. Once we get that stud Edge Rusher or DL we can have the luxury of taking a playmaking LB with our 2nd 1st rd pick. I THINK that's kind of the train of thought here.
I would be all for Rosen for a few reasons:
-You would get him at a great value.
-If he pans out, the next guy is in place.
-If he doesn’t pan out, draft a QB at 2020 with little consequence.
I’m intrigued by Murray.
Agreed. I even thought about the fact that I would be totally fine if we trade our 2nd rounder for Rosen, and then if we're sitting there at #6 and Haskins falls to us we take him too. It sounds like a waste, but there's no more important position than QB and I like our odds that ONE of those guys is going to pan out. If they both pan out, well having 2 franchise QBs on our roster is a good problem to have (and we can trade of one them too). In this scenario we'll still get a great player at #17 too (just take the best guy that falls to us).
Agreed. I even thought about the fact that I would be totally fine if we trade our 2nd rounder for Rosen, and then if we're sitting there at #6 and Haskins falls to us we take him too. It sounds like a waste, but there's no more important position than QB and I like our odds that ONE of those guys is going to pan out. If they both pan out, well having 2 franchise QBs on our roster is a good problem to have (and we can trade of one them too). In this scenario we'll still get a great player at #17 too (just take the best guy that falls to us).
ok, this sounds like Bizzaroworld. If you trade for Rosen, you've got to be nuts to draft Haskins.
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From all indications, Eli will be the week 1 starter. If Rosen is here, he needs to start week 1, he’s already gone through the growing pains.
I would be all for Rosen for a few reasons:
-You would get him at a great value.
-If he pans out, the next guy is in place.
-If he doesn’t pan out, draft a QB at 2020 with little consequence.
I’m intrigued by Murray.
Agreed. I even thought about the fact that I would be totally fine if we trade our 2nd rounder for Rosen, and then if we're sitting there at #6 and Haskins falls to us we take him too. It sounds like a waste, but there's no more important position than QB and I like our odds that ONE of those guys is going to pan out. If they both pan out, well having 2 franchise QBs on our roster is a good problem to have (and we can trade of one them too). In this scenario we'll still get a great player at #17 too (just take the best guy that falls to us).
Different era (and we'd be so lucky), but look at Steve Young in San Francisco. Young was a top QB coming out of BYU, went to the USFL and his rights were acquired by Tampa Bay. He split time in Tampa with Mentor QB to the Stars, Steve DeBerg in 1986. And then the Bucs finished with the worst record in the NFL in 1986. The top pick was unanimous, our friend Vinny. So what did the Bucs do? Traded him to the 49ers because the Niners watched Montana coming off back surgery and saw Jim Burt bounce his head off the Giants Stadium turf like a basketball and wanted a good backup. Young sat behind Montana until 1991.
Point being, it's completely possible if the Giants trade for Rosen, he will sit regardless and the Giants will ease him in and let Eli do his thing. It's Eli's team up until the Giants fall out of contention (which the Giants org seems to think won't be a problem, but we as fans have already seen this movie before). So instead of Geno Smith or Kyle Lauletta, if/when this happens, they will actually have a QB who might be the real heir.
If Bosa, Allen and Q Williams are gone, pull the trigger. He may well be the next best player in this draft after those guys.
As far as other options, I’m a big proponent of going heavy on defense. I very much like the move of moving up to get white in packaging the #17 pick and a player. I do hope that we can get a good RT in this draft.
Shurmur sucks. This organization is a mess now. Why should he be trusted? He's a shitty Head Coach. Complete milquetoast. I can't wait to see him fired.
They know that the edge monster available at 6 will be too good to pass up; add in Devin white, and NYG D is fun to watch again
If Bosa, Allen and Q Williams are gone, pull the trigger. He may well be the next best player in this draft after those guys.
If Allen is pick #6, who do we want at 17?
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Who are we to question Pat Shurmur in evaluating talent. I do admit, I am lukewarm on Haskins; however, if DG and PS like him and feel that he is the franchise quarterback of the future, then I am comfortable with it. I am not a QB evaluator and most people on this board are not professional QB evaluators. We have to trust the professionals who are running this organization to evaluate the talent. So far, regarding the draft, they have done very well in evaluating talent.
As far as other options, I’m a big proponent of going heavy on defense. I very much like the move of moving up to get white in packaging the #17 pick and a player. I do hope that we can get a good RT in this draft.
Shurmur sucks. This organization is a mess now. Why should he be trusted? He's a shitty Head Coach. Complete milquetoast. I can't wait to see him fired.
Yep grinning Todd Bowles had more of a personality than this clown:
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In comment 14341084 Sean said:
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From all indications, Eli will be the week 1 starter. If Rosen is here, he needs to start week 1, he’s already gone through the growing pains.
I would be all for Rosen for a few reasons:
-You would get him at a great value.
-If he pans out, the next guy is in place.
-If he doesn’t pan out, draft a QB at 2020 with little consequence.
I’m intrigued by Murray.
Agreed. I even thought about the fact that I would be totally fine if we trade our 2nd rounder for Rosen, and then if we're sitting there at #6 and Haskins falls to us we take him too. It sounds like a waste, but there's no more important position than QB and I like our odds that ONE of those guys is going to pan out. If they both pan out, well having 2 franchise QBs on our roster is a good problem to have (and we can trade of one them too). In this scenario we'll still get a great player at #17 too (just take the best guy that falls to us).
Different era (and we'd be so lucky), but look at Steve Young in San Francisco. Young was a top QB coming out of BYU, went to the USFL and his rights were acquired by Tampa Bay. He split time in Tampa with Mentor QB to the Stars, Steve DeBerg in 1986. And then the Bucs finished with the worst record in the NFL in 1986. The top pick was unanimous, our friend Vinny. So what did the Bucs do? Traded him to the 49ers because the Niners watched Montana coming off back surgery and saw Jim Burt bounce his head off the Giants Stadium turf like a basketball and wanted a good backup. Young sat behind Montana until 1991.
Point being, it's completely possible if the Giants trade for Rosen, he will sit regardless and the Giants will ease him in and let Eli do his thing. It's Eli's team up until the Giants fall out of contention (which the Giants org seems to think won't be a problem, but we as fans have already seen this movie before). So instead of Geno Smith or Kyle Lauletta, if/when this happens, they will actually have a QB who might be the real heir.
I hope you're right, and I know what Anak posted and Colin@GBN said, but right now it's hard to believe the Giants have any interest in Rosen given what JT and JonC have said. So unless they are way off base, it's hard to get pumped for that possibility right now.