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Peter Schrager: Giants won Odell trade

Pan-handler : 3/15/2019 6:16 pm
With all the negative articles on this topic...I think this one hit the nail on the head for the most part....

The Odell Beckham Jr. trade has left many New York Giants fans crying in their collective beer. They’re feeling betrayed by the team and are voicing their dismay with vitriolic posts on social media lambasting the ownership and general manager Dave Gettleman.

Time will tell whether the Giants made the right move by trading Beckham to the Cleveland Browns for safety Jabrill Peppers and two high draft picks.

I don’t have to wait to render my verdict on this. The Giants should never have signed Beckham to a long-term deal. They should have traded him before the 2018 season and began to build the team according to Gettleman’s vision. Instead, they continued down the garden path on a pipe dream that a “hood ornament” player could lead them back to their winning ways.


Beckham was coming off a lost season in which he broke his ankle and played in just four games, but ownership did not want to give up on their superstar and deal him away for a package of players and picks to help fill the many holes on their roster.

Finally, after another losing season in 2018 and another year in which Beckham did not play in all 16 games (he missed four), it was time to test the market for him and make the inevitable a reality.

While short-sighted fans blast the move, it was the right path to take. From a thousand feet up, it’s clear the Giants had to do this.

Peter Schrager, one of the hosts of “Good Morning Football” on the NFL Network, believes Big Blue will be better off down the road for trading Beckham.

“I think the Giants got the better of the Odell Beckham trade. The Giants were 3-13 and 5-11 the last two seasons. They didn’t just trade a two-time Super Bowl champion they can’t live without. They won eight games total,” Schrager said on NFL Network on Friday. “(Beckham) only played in 16 of 32 games the past two years. In exchange, they’re getting a first-round pick this year, they a starting safety in Jabrill Peppers and they get a third-round pick. They also free up cap space and they get a different locker room.

“Look, the Giants weren’t good the past two years with Odell, so shake it up and make a change. OK, good riddance. Nothing against the kid. Let’s just make a new start. Giants got the better of the deal.”

This wasn’t about Beckham’s personality or antics or any of the on- or off-field things he did. It was about the overall health and future of the franchise. His star weighed too heavily on the team. He didn’t intend it to be that way; it just manifested itself that way.

The Giants were not the Giants while he was here. They danced around disciplining him and he walked all over them. He did nothing malicious, mind you, but make no mistake, there was a 52-and-1 feel to the team.

Beckham burned through three coaches because the owners would not hold him accountable. It turned them into losers. As talented as he is, no team can overcome a locker room where certain players get preferential treatment. There’s no chance for unity there.

This was a business decision. Now, the Giants can get on with being the Giants again.










Giants Won Odell Trade - ( New Window )
I was shocked when he said this on NFLN.  
smshmth8690 : 3/15/2019 6:19 pm : link
He's too excitable, rah rah type, for every big story. I was surprised to hear him say that DG HAS a plan, and he's undertaking it now. I also didn't know Schrager was a Giants fan.
sounds weird  
BleedBlue : 3/15/2019 6:20 pm : link
but this makes me feel better.

i totally understand why but the haul made me sick. the truth is, we as giant fans made a lot of excuses for OBJ. if he was a cowboy, we would have had a field day.


lets move forward now. make these first two picks count in a big way for our defense.
Like any trade  
nyjuggernaut2 : 3/15/2019 6:20 pm : link
you can't proclaim a winner or loser without letting things play out. We don't even know who the Giants will take with the picks they collected from Cleveland, nor do we know how well Peppers will end up being during his tenure in NY.
RE: Like any trade  
BleedBlue : 3/15/2019 6:21 pm : link
In comment 14340905 nyjuggernaut2 said:
Quote:
you can't proclaim a winner or loser without letting things play out. We don't even know who the Giants will take with the picks they collected from Cleveland, nor do we know how well Peppers will end up being during his tenure in NY.


nor do we know if OBJ will be okay in cleveland, if they start facing adversity, what happens?
We also don't know if...  
Vinny from Danbury : 3/15/2019 6:38 pm : link
OBJ will go on to help lead Cleveland to multiple playoff and Superbowl appearances.
Actually I think DG totally fleeced Cleveland  
Red Dog : 3/15/2019 6:40 pm : link
on the two deals that were combined into one.

He moved an over-paid, grossly under-producing edge rusher who was not playing the run worth a damn, couldn't stay on the field, and was likely to be released with no compensation, plus a very talented but very expensive and very troublesome WR who wasn't playing a whole lot either, showed that he was not willing to do what it takes to win, absolutely shit the bed in his only playoff game, and may well have lost his top gear which was a big part of what made him so special in the first place.

He got a very solid G, a young S with real upside, and a first and third for the two. I'll take that anytime.
Again I was told the trade was unanimously  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2019 6:42 pm : link
considered a bust for the Giants by all the experts. Apparently not.
His argument is flawed  
MM_in_NYC : 3/15/2019 6:43 pm : link
He argues:

1. Beckham promoted a losing culture. Thus he's addition by subtraction.
2. Giants have not won while he's been here the last two years (even though one of those years he was basically injured the entire year).

What's missing from his analysis is why the team lost/sucked. And as we all know the reason why the offense did work was because the o-line's ineptitude prevented running a functional offense.

So Schrager is blaming the o-line on Odell. Incredible.

If the argument is simply that the only way this team could fix the o-line was by trading Odell than fuck we're so screwed.

Note that Schrager does not argue that Odell's personality was the issue. So if anyone here wants to argue on Schragers side you can't use that argument and take Schrager's position. He expressly says that is not his view.

In my view, this is simply a click-bait / sensational opinion to get attention - as the logic and points he uses to build his argument do not withstand even the least intense examination.
It's Beckham's fault they went through so many coaches?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/15/2019 6:44 pm : link
It's his fault they lost so many games, even when he was injured? They "weren't the Giants" because of Beckham? No offense to Pete, but that's a whole hot pile of bullshit.

Why not blame Odell for the design of the stadium too? Odell must've scouted Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple.

I don’t agree with all of his points  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2019 6:45 pm : link
but some are true, how can they not be?
The FACTS are that the Giants didn’t win with OBJ  
Ben in Tampa : 3/15/2019 6:48 pm : link
That doesn’t mean he is the reason they were a loser club, but what’s going to happen without him? We lose 12 games instead of 10?
RE: Actually I think DG totally fleeced Cleveland  
bradshaw44 : 3/15/2019 6:50 pm : link
In comment 14340927 Red Dog said:
Quote:
on the two deals that were combined into one.

He moved an over-paid, grossly under-producing edge rusher who was not playing the run worth a damn, couldn't stay on the field, and was likely to be released with no compensation, plus a very talented but very expensive and very troublesome WR who wasn't playing a whole lot either, showed that he was not willing to do what it takes to win, absolutely shit the bed in his only playoff game, and may well have lost his top gear which was a big part of what made him so special in the first place.

He got a very solid G, a young S with real upside, and a first and third for the two. I'll take that anytime.


I posted much of what you have written here the first night of the trade and got shredded. I agree with your take completely.
...  
Mdgiantsfan : 3/15/2019 6:50 pm : link
I'll start with the fact that I hated this trade when I first heard it. Now that a few days have passed it stings a little less, but still wish it didn't happen. The return isn't awful, but draft picks are unknowns and Peppers has been ok albeit a very small sample size. So time will tell if this was the right move.

But to my point. It's funny how people (in the media and some on BBI) continue to say that we haven't won anything with OBJ, so it's not really a big deal that he's gone. But we haven't won much since hoisting the lombardi in 2011, yet there's no such statement when it comes to Eli (media-wise). The only playoff appearance we've had since 2011 had OBJ's paw prints on it as well. But #10 hasn't taken this team to another level.
RE: His argument is flawed  
Pan-handler : 3/15/2019 7:10 pm : link
In comment 14340934 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
He argues:

1. Beckham promoted a losing culture. Thus he's addition by subtraction.
2. Giants have not won while he's been here the last two years (even though one of those years he was basically injured the entire year).

What's missing from his analysis is why the team lost/sucked. And as we all know the reason why the offense did work was because the o-line's ineptitude prevented running a functional offense.

So Schrager is blaming the o-line on Odell. Incredible.

If the argument is simply that the only way this team could fix the o-line was by trading Odell than fuck we're so screwed.

Note that Schrager does not argue that Odell's personality was the issue. So if anyone here wants to argue on Schragers side you can't use that argument and take Schrager's position. He expressly says that is not his view.

In my view, this is simply a click-bait / sensational opinion to get attention - as the logic and points he uses to build his argument do not withstand even the least intense examination.


I agree that he missed that part because that was a big part of it as well.
RE: ...  
Default : 3/15/2019 7:14 pm : link
In comment 14340943 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
I'll start with the fact that I hated this trade when I first heard it. Now that a few days have passed it stings a little less, but still wish it didn't happen. The return isn't awful, but draft picks are unknowns and Peppers has been ok albeit a very small sample size. So time will tell if this was the right move.

But to my point. It's funny how people (in the media and some on BBI) continue to say that we haven't won anything with OBJ, so it's not really a big deal that he's gone. But we haven't won much since hoisting the lombardi in 2011, yet there's no such statement when it comes to Eli (media-wise). The only playoff appearance we've had since 2011 had OBJ's paw prints on it as well. But #10 hasn't taken this team to another level.


Because there is always a fucking excuse for him.
He can do no wrong, and I can't wait til there is a new narrative here.
Although a little bit of a different situation  
TrueBlue56 : 3/15/2019 7:17 pm : link
but some similarities as far as the team goes.I will always believe that we do not win the Superbowl in 2007 if tiki and Shockey were on the team (and they were our biggest offensive players). As great as both of them were, the attitudes and personalities held the team back. We became more of a complete team once they were not on the team. Whether it was retirement or an injury that ultimately resulted in a trade. The team just had a different feel and I'm not just talking wins and losses.

I think that is the situation with Beckham and I'm not going to hold anything against him or blame him for any of this. I wish him nothing but the best in Cleveland.

Right now despite how the trade itself works out, I do feel that we are better by a simple addition by subtraction.
I’m tired of this narrative. The giants are a better with OBJ  
bumpsinthenight : 3/15/2019 7:21 pm : link
The record the four years (but we can focus on the last two) can be traced back to one defining moment; the drafting of Flowrers (probably when Beatty tore his pec but he was average and should have been replaceable). Then compound the problem by letting Witworth pass and letting Flowers keep that job.

The giants had Saquon last season and still looked bad. He was hit more times than not before the line of scrimmage.

Half this board wants to blame Eli when he regularly had to get rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds. He led the league the year before in time to getting the ball out of his hand but not out of design. Eli has been on the back nine in these last four years but he should have been protected better.

The line was putrid. What could any WR do when they can’t run an intermediary or late developing route before his QB is on his back?

You were never going to get fair value for someone of OBJs talent but browns got the better of the deal.

The giants had the lead in 4 of the games with under 2 minutes to go and lost all four. Everyone needs to stop selling the win-lose record because that’s not an OBJ problem as much as it was offensive line and limited pass rush.

If management and owners wanted to let him walk; that’s one thing but the giants didn’t get better without a OBJ. I’m 40 and I know that I’ve probably witnessed the best Giants will ever have in my lifetime.

It’s done, so let’s move on but without the narrative we are now a better team.

Oh and our replacement FA plays the same position as Shepherd who will a FA next year; don’t get attached.
Pan Handler  
EricJ : 3/15/2019 7:23 pm : link
thanks for passing along the info. I dont think anyone truly "wins" a trade. It needs to work for both sides or trades eventually stop.

This cannot be evaluated at least until the end of next season.
maybe just post  
Enzo : 3/15/2019 7:27 pm : link
the stuff Schrager actually said and not the musings of whoever is writes for that blog?
the injury  
Enzo : 3/15/2019 7:29 pm : link
concerns are obviously real. The stuff about how they only won x amount of games with him is just lazy babbling.
We won't know for a few years ...  
Beer Man : 3/15/2019 7:30 pm : link
But I believe there is a good chance that it will be a win-win. Hate to see OBJ go, but I understand why it had to happen.
The only thing that is a fact  
Mike from Ohio : 3/15/2019 7:34 pm : link
is that who won the trade is an opinion at the time it is made. The Giants and Browns both made a trade they thought makes there team better. Once Beckham retires and the players acquired by the Giants with the picks obtained retires, it will be much easier to assess who won and who lost.

It’s silly to argue who won a trade when there has not been a single game played since. It’s easy to say the Browns won since they got the marquis player in the trade, but that is a pretty narrow view.
Of course  
joeinpa : 3/15/2019 7:35 pm : link
They did
Let’s decide in 1  
Les in TO : 3/15/2019 7:38 pm : link
3 or 5 years who won this trade.
RE: Again I was told the trade was unanimously  
mrvax : 3/15/2019 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14340931 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
considered a bust for the Giants by all the experts. Apparently not.


The first 50 or so "writers" considered it a bad move for the Giants. I kid you not, these "writers" generally know less than the average BBI poster.

We won the OBJ Trade Because  
NYGNYY : 3/15/2019 7:46 pm : link
He can’t stay on the Field.
That Simple.
RE: RE: Again I was told the trade was unanimously  
Mike from Ohio : 3/15/2019 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14341007 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 14340931 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


considered a bust for the Giants by all the experts. Apparently not.



The first 50 or so "writers" considered it a bad move for the Giants. I kid you not, these "writers" generally know less than the average BBI poster.


You must not read BBI much.
Haha  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2019 7:48 pm : link
and that’s exactly what I said when it was posted, the insights were the same as most BBI posts. No analysis was given at all, just, “we should have gotten more”. Cool story.
I don't think OBJ is going to be happy in Cleveland  
gtt350 : 3/15/2019 7:48 pm : link
he wants to go Hollywood. There is not enough balls to go around and he will have a meltdown imho
RE: I don't think OBJ is going to be happy in Cleveland  
eric2425ny : 3/15/2019 8:37 pm : link
In comment 14341022 gtt350 said:
Quote:
he wants to go Hollywood. There is not enough balls to go around and he will have a meltdown imho


Yup, ticking time bomb. And QB’s often go through a sophomore slump.
RE: ...  
Red Right Hand : 3/15/2019 8:47 pm : link
In comment 14340943 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
I'll start with the fact that I hated this trade when I first heard it. Now that a few days have passed it stings a little less, but still wish it didn't happen. The return isn't awful, but draft picks are unknowns and Peppers has been ok albeit a very small sample size. So time will tell if this was the right move.

But to my point. It's funny how people (in the media and some on BBI) continue to say that we haven't won anything with OBJ, so it's not really a big deal that he's gone. But we haven't won much since hoisting the lombardi in 2011, yet there's no such statement when it comes to Eli (media-wise). The only playoff appearance we've had since 2011 had OBJ's paw prints on it as well. But #10 hasn't taken this team to another level.
Neither did Odell, and he was making more than Mannings 17 mil a year.
Both Teams can "win" on a trade  
ZogZerg : 3/15/2019 8:50 pm : link
It doesn't have to be one team or the other.
So he basically said  
hitdog42 : 3/15/2019 8:51 pm : link
That the giants sucked the last 2 years when Odell missed most of the games- and that he personally burned through 3 coaches....despite carrying the offense to the playoffs for mcadoos first year and being hurt for the second year when the qb was so bad he got benched for gene smith.
Solid article- hope everyone feels better now.
There is a chance the giants win the trade if they draft well and sign good few agents and peppers is a good safety—- but has nothing to do with this guys nonsense
garbage analysis  
bebopson : 3/16/2019 12:33 am : link
Quote:
“I think the Giants got the better of the Odell Beckham trade. The Giants were 3-13 and 5-11 the last two seasons. They didn’t just trade a two-time Super Bowl champion they can’t live without. They won eight games total,” Schrager said on NFL Network on Friday. “(Beckham) only played in 16 of 32 games the past two years. In exchange, they’re getting a first-round pick this year, they a starting safety in Jabrill Peppers and they get a third-round pick. They also free up cap space and they get a different locker room.


This implication that Odell is not a difference-maker is such CRAP. Just the laziest stuff out there. Of course they can lose without him. Give me a break. But if they can't get him the ball, he can't make a difference. Is it his fault he broke his ankle and missed 2017? Seriously, this is just a pathetic attempt to rationalize losing the most exciting, talented and dynamic players in the league. A guy who puts butts in seats. If ownership can't deal with him, they're just a bunch of pussies.

What you can say is that the team was unbalanced. Too much high-end talent (OBJ $$$, SB $$) without the platform (OL,QB) to make it shine.

The strategy seems to be to shore up the base by eliminating the weakest points by sacrificing high-end talent that is wasted with the poor base. In other words, make the team normal, statistically speaking.
lol @ short sighted fans  
MookGiants : 3/16/2019 1:25 am : link
yeah, it's the short sighted fans.

Not the idiot GM who takes a RB #2 overall on a team that is years away from competing and wasting a lot of his prime.

DG can't have it both ways.
short sighted  
MookGiants : 3/16/2019 1:33 am : link
is keeping a running back who, while insanely talented, is having 3 of his prime years totally wasted on one of if the not the worst team in football. By the time the Giants even have a chance to be good again, Barkley will be in his final contract year and ready to cash in on a mega deal. And a mega deal for a running back is almost always a horrific idea.

Short sighted is not trading off both Beckham and Barkley. You don't do one or the other. You do both. Go all in on a total rebuild.
I'm also  
MookGiants : 3/16/2019 1:35 am : link
pretty sure Pat Shurmur has always been a loser as a head coach. Beckham had nothing to do with Shurmur being a loser as a HC. He's always been that way
RE: short sighted  
bw in dc : 3/16/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14341421 MookGiants said:
Quote:
is keeping a running back who, while insanely talented, is having 3 of his prime years totally wasted on one of if the not the worst team in football. By the time the Giants even have a chance to be good again, Barkley will be in his final contract year and ready to cash in on a mega deal. And a mega deal for a running back is almost always a horrific idea.

Short sighted is not trading off both Beckham and Barkley. You don't do one or the other. You do both. Go all in on a total rebuild.


I’m not opposed to this line of thinking. It is bold. But it would set most of the fan base on fire. And Mara would have to enter the witness protection program... ; )
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