There has been talk that Eli's $17M cap money really can't significantly improve the team, and is still best used to stick with Eli.
So I decided to take a a look at the free agent signings reported by Spotrac and their AAV value. Using that as a simple baseline, and assuming we could have offered and finalized the same contract, here are a few 3 player packages we could have created with the savings from Eli's contract:
Package A
C: Matt Paradis at $9.7M
S: Eric Weddle at $5.3M
TE: Charles Clay at $2M
Total: $17M
Package B
DE: Henry Anderson at $8.4M
RT: Daryl Williams at $6M
CB: Jason Verrett at $3M
Total: $17M+
Package C
C: Spencer Long at $4.2M
S: Jimmie Ward at $4.5M
CB: Pierre Nasir at $7.5M
Total: $16M+
Now, this doesn't even include other available cap money. And it certainly illustrates there are several ways to take Eli's money and upgrade in key areas like OL, DL, secondary, etc.
As for solving for QB, and this has been discussed at great length, there are several potential solutions: Rosen, QB at #6, Lauletta, trade (Driskel-type), etc.
Unfortunately, this is all academic. But the point is that money was/is very useful in getting an early jump with new assets that would help build a better all-around team; versus keeping a 38 year old QB who has seen his better days.
The guy in all likelihood won’t be a Giant for much longer and it’s pretty evident that what they are paying him is not precluding them from building for the future. (Eric fucking Weddle..really?)
Your resentment of the Giants is borderline creepy. Maybe you should find a new hobby. You remind me of the lead role in Big Fan...
I agree the signings would have to be mutual. So even forget the names. The overarching point is the $17M is serious cap savings and it could have been real useful in further building out the roster.
The guy in all likelihood won’t be a Giant for much longer and it’s pretty evident that what they are paying him is not precluding them from building for the future. (Eric fucking Weddle..really?)
Your resentment of the Giants is borderline creepy. Maybe you should find a new hobby. You remind me of the lead role in Big Fan...
Of course I can’t prove it. But, as explained, it’s an academic exercise to illustrate that $17M is material money to invest.
I resent losing due to incompetence.
Nearly all games are won before they are played. And this organization has done a poor job this last decade trying to increase those odds.
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It’s not about the money in a vacuum. The Giants tried to sign some of the guys you mentioned despite Eli’s cap hit. The feeling has to be mutual.
I agree the signings would have to be mutual. So even forget the names. The overarching point is the $17M is serious cap savings and it could have been real useful in further building out the roster.
You can’t forget the names...your point is that Manning’s cap number is preventing the Giants from improving their team.
SOMETHING YOU CANT PROVE.
It’s an utter bullshit take. Criticize the guys play all you want, but this fairy tale point of view is bad even for you.
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So this is assuming any one of those players would automatically sign with the Giants for the same money, and that Eli mannings cap hit actually precluded from them signing any or all of them which of course you cannot prove...but don’t let facts get in the way of your endless obsession. It’s old.
The guy in all likelihood won’t be a Giant for much longer and it’s pretty evident that what they are paying him is not precluding them from building for the future. (Eric fucking Weddle..really?)
Your resentment of the Giants is borderline creepy. Maybe you should find a new hobby. You remind me of the lead role in Big Fan...
Of course I can’t prove it. But, as explained, it’s an academic exercise to illustrate that $17M is material money to invest.
I resent losing due to incompetence.
Nearly all games are won before they are played. And this organization has done a poor job this last decade trying to increase those odds.
I absolutely agree the organization has done a poor job from top to bottom for a long time.. hence their record..but don’t pull shit out of your ass to support your narrative.
You can’t forget the names...your point is that Manning’s cap number is preventing the Giants from improving their team.
SOMETHING YOU CANT PROVE.
It’s an utter bullshit take. Criticize the guys play all you want, but this fairy tale point of view is bad even for you.
Here’s what I can prove - Eli’s play has dimished. He’s 38. So paying him doesn’t improve the team because there is no dividend. Which means you have a better chance to actually improve the team by re-allocating his cap dollars. Not sure why this is hard to grasp.
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You can’t forget the names...your point is that Manning’s cap number is preventing the Giants from improving their team.
SOMETHING YOU CANT PROVE.
It’s an utter bullshit take. Criticize the guys play all you want, but this fairy tale point of view is bad even for you.
Here’s what I can prove - Eli’s play has dimished. He’s 38. So paying him doesn’t improve the team because there is no dividend. Which means you have a better chance to actually improve the team by re-allocating his cap dollars. Not sure why this is hard to grasp.
When you figure out who the Giants can’t sign because they need another 17 million in 2019, then come back and try again. Until then, the only thing anyone here is grasping is your bitter ranting.
We can play this all day..you are more than entitled to feel Eli is part of the problem with this team rather than the solution. Your methodology here is flawed and you know it.
When you figure out who the Giants can’t sign because they need another 17 million in 2019, then come back and try again. Until then, the only thing anyone here is grasping is your bitter ranting.
We can play this all day..you are more than entitled to feel Eli is part of the problem with this team rather than the solution. Your methodology here is flawed and you know it.
You’re applying the tone - “bitter” - I’m just spitballing ideas.
If you have more money to spend does that increase or decrease your chances to compete and purchase more assets? It’s a rather simple question.
Imagine the Chiefs put Mahomes on the market. What would they pull back?
I keep coming back to Belichick: the talent margin in the NFL is really pretty slim. These guys are all way more fungible than the marketing wants us to think.
Meanwhile, I hope Eli is the starter and kicks ass.
I have some koolaid for you - try it - weekend at Bernie’s - yup - starring Eli Manning and his Ehive brothers from BBI
Imagine the Chiefs put Mahomes on the market. What would they pull back?
I keep coming back to Belichick: the talent margin in the NFL is really pretty slim. These guys are all way more fungible than the marketing wants us to think.
That last part would make a lot more sense if the Patriots hadn’t given Brady a second contract.
Imagine the Chiefs put Mahomes on the market. What would they pull back?
I keep coming back to Belichick: the talent margin in the NFL is really pretty slim. These guys are all way more fungible than the marketing wants us to think.
The QB position is not fungible. It’s not like other positions.
As to the OP, Lauletta is not the solution at QB. Not unless he vastly improves.
What are you trying to accomplish?
What are you trying to accomplish?
I’ll say this Britt, I hope Eli has a quiet anger right now. I’ve made my concerns noted about bringing him back for 19, but I’ve accepted it & I’ll be rooting like hell for him. He’s been buried by the national media, everyone kicking dirt on him, I hope he goes into 2019 angry & motivated to shut everyone up.
1. You are assuming these players would want to sign with NY.
2. You are assuming we didnt offer more for their services.
3. Assuming there are other options at QB is just false. Here are the QBs who were available...
A. Bridgewater - who didnt want to leave NO.
B. Tanneheill who costed a 4th round pick, $$$, and is 29, inury prone, and a terrible QB.
C. AJ McCarron, who is not wanted by anyone.....ever.
D. Tyrod Taylor who is again, f'n terrible.
Any other QB who people want MAY NOT BE AVAILABLE. This isnt madden where you say.... oh I want Jeff Driksel, oh I want Kyle Sloter. Maybe these teams dont want to give up on them.
Once people realize that the Giants are still trying to win no matter what the roster looks like. And since Eli has one year left.... he is going to start this year. And then if the season fails.... we will take a QB next year and continue with the rebuild. This is really, really, really, really simple.
Yet grown men, many of you partially educated (RIP George Carlin)... still cant figure this out. Its truly mind boggling.
You know what actually harms the brand - losing.
Unfortunately, Mara thinks exactly like you.
Once people realize that the Giants are still trying to win no matter what the roster looks like. And since Eli has one year left.... he is going to start this year. And then if the season fails.... we will take a QB next year and continue with the rebuild. This is really, really, really, really simple.
And this is exactly what’s gotten us into this mess. Kicking the can down the road since 2015
Meanwhile, I hope Eli is the starter and kicks ass.
You mean a rebuilding decade...?
We just traded away one of the most gifted players we ever had in OBJ. And let Collins go. And traded away the best pass rusher. I think the fan base can handle the send off of a 38 year old QB on the 18th hole of his career...
Well done.
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Once people realize that the Giants are still trying to win no matter what the roster looks like. And since Eli has one year left.... he is going to start this year. And then if the season fails.... we will take a QB next year and continue with the rebuild. This is really, really, really, really simple.
And this is exactly what’s gotten us into this mess. Kicking the can down the road since 2015
No it’s not even close to have gotten us into this mess. It’s just a false narrative for people who don’t understand the game.
Poor drafting plus overspending for marginal talent in the last 10 years is what has gotten us here.
The QB position is not fungible. It’s not like other positions.
As to the OP, Lauletta is not the solution at QB. Not unless he vastly improves.
I’m with you here. The QB position is the glue to consistent success in the NFL. There is too much evidence to support that.
We don’t know if Lauletta is the solution or not. We just know he looked bad when he got some time. Just like Eli looked horrendous when he first played.
Yes. I’m just showing the theoretical talent combinations we may have been able to buy with $17M.
It’s a significant amount of money.
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In comment 14341565 dep026 said:
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Once people realize that the Giants are still trying to win no matter what the roster looks like. And since Eli has one year left.... he is going to start this year. And then if the season fails.... we will take a QB next year and continue with the rebuild. This is really, really, really, really simple.
And this is exactly what’s gotten us into this mess. Kicking the can down the road since 2015
No it’s not even close to have gotten us into this mess. It’s just a false narrative for people who don’t understand the game.
Poor drafting plus overspending for marginal talent in the last 10 years is what has gotten us here.
You’re referring to the wrong mess, I’m referring to the mess of being stuck with an aging quarterback eating up a large portion of cap space who isn’t good anymore.
Even if we had drafted well we’d still be needing a QB right now. After the 2015-16 season is when they should have started making plans on who they wanted to be the next QB.
Despite the difference of opinion many of us have on Eli, I think many would agree obtaining Rosen makes a ton of success, both from his potential upside and his very manageable cap hit.
1. You are assuming these players would want to sign with NY.
2. You are assuming we didnt offer more for their services.
3. Assuming there are other options at QB is just false. Here are the QBs who were available...
A. Bridgewater - who didnt want to leave NO.
B. Tanneheill who costed a 4th round pick, $$$, and is 29, inury prone, and a terrible QB.
C. AJ McCarron, who is not wanted by anyone.....ever.
D. Tyrod Taylor who is again, f'n terrible.
Any other QB who people want MAY NOT BE AVAILABLE. This isnt madden where you say.... oh I want Jeff Driksel, oh I want Kyle Sloter. Maybe these teams dont want to give up on them.
Once people realize that the Giants are still trying to win no matter what the roster looks like. And since Eli has one year left.... he is going to start this year. And then if the season fails.... we will take a QB next year and continue with the rebuild. This is really, really, really, really simple.
Yet grown men, many of you partially educated (RIP George Carlin)... still cant figure this out. Its truly mind boggling.
Basically your the guy keeping his money in IBM and hoping for a rebound.
I’m the guy selling out of IBM, taking my proceeds, and moving into new, more innovative companies.
Basically your the guy keeping his money in IBM and hoping for a rebound.
I’m the guy selling out of IBM, taking my proceeds, and moving into new, more innovative companies.
This makes no sense since I have been the biggest advocate of re-tooling the roster and rebuilding. Making smart decisions through the draft and not overspending for guys who arent difference makers.
You? You are the guy that invests in Enron.
Who said anything about cutting? The QB could have sat as a rookie. Or they would have had a plan to target one in 2018. Instead of the current plan.
You? You are the guy that invests in Enron.
They are overspending on a guy who isn’t a difference maker.
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Is what smart teams do.
Who said anything about cutting? The QB could have sat as a rookie. Or they would have had a plan to target one in 2018. Instead of the current plan.
So who should they have ddrafted in 2016?
Well done.
Wait...ever?!?
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Making smart decisions through the draft and not overspending for guys who arent difference makers.
You? You are the guy that invests in Enron.
They are overspending on a guy who isn’t a difference maker.
1. That could be said for everyone on the team outside Barkley, Hernandez, and Rosas.
2. He is gone after this year. Giving extended and multi year deal to journeyman QBs while giving up picks doesnt seem smart either, does it?
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In comment 14341608 dep026 said:
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Is what smart teams do.
Who said anything about cutting? The QB could have sat as a rookie. Or they would have had a plan to target one in 2018. Instead of the current plan.
So who should they have ddrafted in 2016?
Again, I didn’t say they should have drafted one in 2016, I said they should have started planning to take one in the near future. Just like everyone wants to trade up next year, they could have made their plan to do that in the 2017 draft. They could have made their plan in March of 2016 that they were going to find one in 2018. Now you’re stuck in a spot where Eli’s contract is expiring, you might not take a QB in 2019 and might not get the chance in 2020. The disaster this franchise will be in if they end up 10th in the 2020 draft still needing a QB with the Dolphins and two other QB needy teams in position to take one would be massive.
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In comment 14341614 dep026 said:
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Making smart decisions through the draft and not overspending for guys who arent difference makers.
You? You are the guy that invests in Enron.
They are overspending on a guy who isn’t a difference maker.
1. That could be said for everyone on the team outside Barkley, Hernandez, and Rosas.
2. He is gone after this year. Giving extended and multi year deal to journeyman QBs while giving up picks doesnt seem smart either, does it?
Journey men QBs only sign multi year deals?
This makes no sense since I have been the biggest advocate of re-tooling the roster and rebuilding. Making smart decisions through the draft and not overspending for guys who arent difference makers.
You? You are the guy that invests in Enron.
Then I misunderstood you. I thought you were with Eli until death do us part...
I was a WorldCom guy...
Again, I didn’t say they should have drafted one in 2016, I said they should have started planning to take one in the near future. Just like everyone wants to trade up next year, they could have made their plan to do that in the 2017 draft. They could have made their plan in March of 2016 that they were going to find one in 2018. Now you’re stuck in a spot where Eli’s contract is expiring, you might not take a QB in 2019 and might not get the chance in 2020. The disaster this franchise will be in if they end up 10th in the 2020 draft still needing a QB with the Dolphins and two other QB needy teams in position to take one would be massive.
To summarize this post..... you are still mad they took Barkley over a QB this past year. And its nothing more or less and the most tiresome argument in the entire world.
Just nauseating at this point.
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Again, I didn’t say they should have drafted one in 2016, I said they should have started planning to take one in the near future. Just like everyone wants to trade up next year, they could have made their plan to do that in the 2017 draft. They could have made their plan in March of 2016 that they were going to find one in 2018. Now you’re stuck in a spot where Eli’s contract is expiring, you might not take a QB in 2019 and might not get the chance in 2020. The disaster this franchise will be in if they end up 10th in the 2020 draft still needing a QB with the Dolphins and two other QB needy teams in position to take one would be massive.
To summarize this post..... you are still mad they took Barkley over a QB this past year. And its nothing more or less and the most tiresome argument in the entire world.
Just nauseating at this point.
If that’s what you took from that then I can’t help you.
I’m mad they’re waiting until they’ve gotten to a point where their QB is going to continue to decline and waste time because they decided to wait until the end to get a QB.
It’s always better to move on a year early than two years too late.
The irony here is if they had a plan earlier they’d probably be in a better position to compete and win games this year.
Its one thing to have an opinion, its another to actually back it up - which is something you have failed to do over and over and over and over again.
And lets npt forget that the last regime used a 3rd rounder on a QB in 2017 they thought had a chance to take the reigns. You know what happened to him and the majority of Reese's picks for 10 years?
They busted.