Josh Rosen elite? Re read Sy,s evaluation

is his cap hit is so small, the risk here is minimal. Its the only way for DG to have his cake and it eat too! I liked Rosen coming out last year. Gettleman was around when the Accorsi took a chance on Kerry Collins. So making a deal like this is certainly within his wheelhouse. If the Cards insist on a first, then I would say 17 and our 2nd but they have to give us their 3rd (first pick in that round) to balance out. I would bet what we are offering would beat any other package. I believe the Cards are taking Murray (WAY to much smoke there). So, if the Giants want Rosen, I think its HIGHLY likely he's there to be had.

In comment 14341666 Dave on the UWS said:

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is his cap hit is so small, the risk here is minimal. Its the only way for DG to have his cake and it eat too! I liked Rosen coming out last year. Gettleman was around when the Accorsi took a chance on Kerry Collins. So making a deal like this is certainly within his wheelhouse. If the Cards insist on a first, then I would say 17 and our 2nd but they have to give us their 3rd (first pick in that round) to balance out. I would bet what we are offering would beat any other package. I believe the Cards are taking Murray (WAY to much smoke there). So, if the Giants want Rosen, I think its HIGHLY likely he's there to be had.

Why are you betting the Giants could beat any other package? What if Miami offered there 13th?

just because they're looking to trade hime doesn't automatically mean he's damaged goods, they might just love Murray that much. Remember the Brees / Rivers situation? No need to draft Rivers but they loved him.

In comment 14341682 csb said:

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just because they're looking to trade hime doesn't automatically mean he's damaged goods, they might just love Murray that much. Remember the Brees / Rivers situation? No need to draft Rivers but they loved him.

Brees has the shoulder injury. Was a bad one if I recall that people weren’t sure if he’d fully recover from

Big mistake. He does a horrible job of controlling his mouth. This is a big liability for anyone who plays in New York. The potential for distraction is multiples of OBJ.

In an era of entitled athletes, Rosen is near the head of the pack. The son of a surgeon he has never faced any real adversity in his life but he is sensitive when folks bring it up.

One NFL executive summed it up this way, "Everybody recognizes the talent with Rosen, but he is not the top guy in the draft because nobody likes him,"

There are plenty more examples to cite. Of course, there are two sides to every story, but there is a lot smoke around Rosen's character. Ignore it at your own peril.

And we haven't even started on his injury history.

When they drafted him he had been the starter for two years; he wasn't a Pro Bowler til 2004 but he had shown the ability to be a very good young NFL QB.

To the poster that said there's no downside to trading for Rosen...what do you call the pick or picks required to trade for him? Those would be valuable, and if he busts, that's called downside. Plus the opportunity cost that you probably aren't going to go after one of the good QBs in next year's draft because Rosen likely wouldn't play much this year and would already be regarded as the heir apparent.

Plenty of downside.

In comment 14341679 GFAN52 said:

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Why are you betting the Giants could beat any other package? What if Miami offered there 13th?

The odds are Miami won't...they are in full tank mode for Tua. Getting Rosen would hurt the tank.

I think the Giants just need to wait this out, let Arizona come to them. Once the draft comes, it's harder on the Cardinals..drafting a QB at #1 means everyone knows they have to get rid of Rosen, so they lose leverage. I think that there's been enough "leaks" showing the Giants are interested so that discussions can start if Arizona is serious.

That does not mean the Giants will pull the trigger, but I'm sure they will listen. You really don't want to make the first call in these situations unless you have to.

In comment 14341534 Ira said:

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I haven't seen his nfl games, but as a college qb, he excelled in leading his receivers with the ball so they could get more yards after the catch.

A QB can do that??? Has anyone told Eli, lol?

In comment 14341477 section125 said:

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Let the chips ride. I'm with you, but the bad attitude crowd will be here soon.

Thay’s me. Sorry, but in a league that practices very little and the majority of game day prep is film study, give me the guy who LOVES football to be the leader of the team. And that’s not Rosen. Physically he may have the skills, but if you are not passionate about it mentally, I have my doubts about his production over the long term. It’s telling when a former coach calls a player out by name on the way out the door.

In comment 14341772 Bill in UT said:

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In comment 14341534 Ira said: Quote: I haven't seen his nfl games, but as a college qb, he excelled in leading his receivers with the ball so they could get more yards after the catch. A QB can do that??? Has anyone told Eli, lol?

They did but he’s been running for his life in the pocket.

get Rosen, I hope Miami does. One less team in competition for QB 2020 race.

and cutting Tanney.

The 2nd rd pick, or extra 1M/yr that it'd cost?

In comment 14341706 since1925 said:

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Big mistake. He does a horrible job of controlling his mouth. This is a big liability for anyone who plays in New York. The potential for distraction is multiples of OBJ. In an era of entitled athletes, Rosen is near the head of the pack. The son of a surgeon he has never faced any real adversity in his life but he is sensitive when folks bring it up. One NFL executive summed it up this way, "Everybody recognizes the talent with Rosen, but he is not the top guy in the draft because nobody likes him," There are plenty more examples to cite. Of course, there are two sides to every story, but there is a lot smoke around Rosen's character. Ignore it at your own peril. And we haven't even started on his injury history.

One opinion. Many others had him as the #1 QB last year

Rosen or Murray, whomever Arizona doesn't want.

In comment 14341785 Bernie said:

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In comment 14341477 section125 said: Quote: Let the chips ride. I'm with you, but the bad attitude crowd will be here soon. Thay’s me. Sorry, but in a league that practices very little and the majority of game day prep is film study, give me the guy who LOVES football to be the leader of the team. And that’s not Rosen. Physically he may have the skills, but if you are not passionate about it mentally, I have my doubts about his production over the long term. It’s telling when a former coach calls a player out by name on the way out the door.

So I'm clear, when McAdoo called out Eli, McAdoo was a clown, but when Mora failed to endorse Rosen, that's airtight and legit.

I don't even want Rosen, but that logic is flawed.

Bill L said:

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Other than he was fortunate to get his his next and final concussion. He’s a time bomb.

Maybe, maybe not. Aaron Rodgers has suffered at least three concussions - including two within two months during his championship season - and those are just the knockouts. He's a time bomb too, yet the Packers continue to stake their fortunes on him at age 35. His cap hit over the next three years, before he becomes somewhat cuttable, is over $92MM.

Obviously, Rosen isn't Rodgers. When healthy, Rodgers is top five all-time. But if Rosen is a time bomb because of concussions, at least he's a relatively cheap, low-megatonnage version.

In comment 14341552 Capt. Don said:

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His cap hit will be a pittance for 4 years. If he doesnt work out it will stink to have wasted a 2nd but that is not much ti risk for a guy w his talent. If it doesnt work out you go all in on Trevor Lawrence

I agree completely. It is more than worth the gamble if he can be had for a 2nd round pick. He would more than likely play several games this season at some point and if he doesn't show any progress the Giants could then turn their attention towards Fromm next year or Lawrence/Fields the year after. If the Giants acquire Rosen I would like to see them be more aggressive in free agency by adding Remmers, Justin Houston, and Danny Shelton. Also re-sign S Michael Thomas.

Then in the draft add
1st 6th OLB Montez
1st 17th ILB Devin Bush
3rd CB Justin Layne
4th WR Emanuel Hall
4th DT Renell Wren
5th QB Tyree Jackson
5th G Dominique Biggs
5th TE Foster Moreau
6th C Sam Mustipher
7th OT Yosuah Nijman
7th WR Damion Willis

QB Manning, Rosen, Jackson
RB Barkley, Gallman, Martin
FB Penny
WR Tate, Shepard, Hall, Jawill Davis, Corey Coleman, Damion Willis
TE Engram, Ellison, Moreau
LT Solder Wheeler
LG Hernandez Biggs
C Halapio, Pulley
G Zeitler Mustipher
RT Remmers Nijman

DE Tomlinson, McIntosh
NT Shelton, Wren
DE Hill, Pierre

OLB Houston, Sweat
ILB Bush, Goodson
ILB Ogletree, Davis
OLB Golden, Carter, Martin

CB Jenkins, Beal, Haley, Layne, Hamilton
FS Bethea, Chandler
SS Peppers, Thomas

In comment 14341606 markky said:

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i'd be thrilled if we do that. and the Cards moving Rosen means nothing. Favre and Brees were both traded as well. Couldn't build a team around those guys? And the Bucs drafted Testaverde and traded Steve Young to the 9ers for a 2nd and 4th.

Bad analogies, none of them were a top ten pick being dumped like hot garbage after 1 year.

He is elite, elite levels of douchiness. In theory it might be a good idea to get him for cheap and correct his douchiness problem, but his douchiness seems congenital.

issue. But he held up pretty well to a brutal beating in AZ. If we can get him for a 2nd, I'd jump all over that.

thing with Rosen. Doesn’t feel like he is any less durable than the other QBs who have come out recently. He played every snap he was given last year. Darnold missed 3 games.

to make excuses for every single QB prospect. Just wait until Trevor Lawrence comes out. The narrative will be “is he too good?”

In comment 14341863 ryanmkeane said:

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thing with Rosen. Doesn’t feel like he is any less durable than the other QBs who have come out recently. He played every snap he was given last year. Darnold missed 3 games.

Darnold missed 3 games because of the devastating injury of sucking.

In comment 14341682 csb said:

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just because they're looking to trade hime doesn't automatically mean he's damaged goods, they might just love Murray that much. Remember the Brees / Rivers situation? No need to draft Rivers but they loved him.

Yes this is exactly right. Its also a new regime after 1 short year. Total change of direction and vision. Kyler likely fits the ideal vision for the offense Kingsberry wants to run alot more than a less moblie and athletic Rosen does.

In comment 14341616 Justlurking said:

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In comment 14341477 section125 said: Quote: Let the chips ride. I'm with you, but the bad attitude crowd will be here soon. Haha - seriously. I’m also in on Rosen.

Rosen was also one of my top guys with the concerns being the concussions and character. After a year in the league of getting hit pretty good and no recurrance that concern is much less now. On The character stuff we havent heard anything additional negatives.

Hes extremely cerebral, can anticipate routes, throws a beautiful ball and is very accurate.

Coach Red Beaulieu said:

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He is elite, elite levels of douchiness. In theory it might be a good idea to get him for cheap and correct his douchiness problem, but his douchiness seems congenital.

As are your lack of a civil vocabulary and inability to support your opinion with anything more persuasive than offensive, sexist slurs. Your repetitive references to vaginal cleansing products, on multiple threads, tell us far more about you than about Josh Rosen.

I have no opinion about the kid either way; but I'm forming a pretty firm view of some of his detractors.

In comment 14341805 AdamBrag said:

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Rosen or Murray, whomever Arizona doesn't want.

Agree with this.
Can't believe Cards won't take Murray at one, and if they don't Oakland will.
Given our across the board needs, it's very risky to forego our first round picks plus more to move up for Murray.

He throws the short and intermediate stuff with a high level of accuracy and timing. His background in tennis tells us he likely has excellent footwork and body control... critical in the short passing game. Drew Brees was also a high level tennis player, and you can see why when you watch him throw screens and quick timing passes.

Conversely Eli has always struggled with that. He's always been poor in the screen game; his best work was always done intermediate to deep and outside the hash marks.

Look at our offensive personnel: Barkley, Engram, Tate. These aren't guys winning jump balls down the field; we want these guys catching short, accurate passes and maximizing YAC. Rosen has the edge over Eli there already.

In comment 14341939 Go Terps said:

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He throws the short and intermediate stuff with a high level of accuracy and timing. His background in tennis tells us he likely has excellent footwork and body control... critical in the short passing game. Drew Brees was also a high level tennis player, and you can see why when you watch him throw screens and quick timing passes. Conversely Eli has always struggled with that. He's always been poor in the screen game; his best work was always done intermediate to deep and outside the hash marks. Look at our offensive personnel: Barkley, Engram, Tate. These aren't guys winning jump balls down the field; we want these guys catching short, accurate passes and maximizing YAC. Rosen has the edge over Eli there already.

Agree with you here Terps. Eli's best fit was the Coughlin/Gilbride style offense. He has never been a WCO guy.

In comment 14341481 Diver_Down said:

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it is linked below. Sy's QB Review from 2018 - ( New Window )

I just read Sy’s review. He mentioned Rosen needing to bulk up a little bit in the next year or two. Does anyone know if Rosen bulked up any?

In comment 14341974 Josiah31 said:

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In comment 14341481 Diver_Down said: Quote: it is linked below. Sy's QB Review from 2018 - ( New Window ) I just read Sy’s review. He mentioned Rosen needing to bulk up a little bit in the next year or two. Does anyone know if Rosen bulked up any?

I read somewhere that he just started buying Men's Large shirts.

The guy is really accurate. People here talk all about the poor season he had but I wonder how many actually saw him play. Yes, he is learning, like every rookie QB. But ball placement of his throws in some of the games I saw was really impressive. He can move better than I thought as well.

No one is complaining about his tape. If you watch him you know he can throw. I think there are a of emotional or non football-related reasons that some people don't want him here. If you bring him into camp with Eli Manning and put them both in Shurmur's system, Rosen will look better. There's some people that are also put off by his political stance. I can't recall one coach or player that has said anything negative about him. It is always a third party claiming they have heard this but there is never a source. This is why I believe the attitude complaints are derived from bias either emotional or political.

But if concussions were their durability concern, other than him playing 3-4-5 seasons with no issues...it's always a concern. Even after 5 yrs he could get hit and that's it. Even with a 'minor' concussion it's potentially a huge risk you might lose him for good

From there you might still say you'd take the risk for the right pick, but it's possible and justifiable NYG is not ok with the risk

I don't know his history, but IMO I agree I might have pursued this option for a 3rd? MAYBE 3 + a 5/6. But as others said he hasn't been made available...so there's that

If your pro Rosen argument is about his play no one disagrees but still doesn't answer his concussion Q (which is basically unanswerable) or the other major Q, is he even available? That's ignoring his potential attitude issues which, if true, seems like we are specifically avoiding atm

In comment 14341706 since1925 said:

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Big mistake. He does a horrible job of controlling his mouth. This is a big liability for anyone who plays in New York. The potential for distraction is multiples of OBJ. In an era of entitled athletes, Rosen is near the head of the pack. The son of a surgeon he has never faced any real adversity in his life but he is sensitive when folks bring it up. One NFL executive summed it up this way, "Everybody recognizes the talent with Rosen, but he is not the top guy in the draft because nobody likes him," There are plenty more examples to cite. Of course, there are two sides to every story, but there is a lot smoke around Rosen's character. Ignore it at your own peril. And we haven't even started on his injury history.

Can I ask something about the character issues that I find to be kind of hypocritical? When Baker Mayfield was struggling, and then after he got a new coordinator and coach who helped turn the Browns offense around, threw Hue Jackson under the bus in such an obnoxious, arrogant, worst-of-millennial type manner (and I'm not knocking millennials in general). Yet because Baker had a good second half of the season with lots of good pieces around him and a new, successful coaching staff, nobody says word one about how obnxious and immature Baker's comments were about Hue Jackson.

Meanwhile, Josh Rosen was put in a far worse situation, with a horribly unimaginative offensive coordinator, then a rookie offensive coordinator and a defensive minded coach who simply is not an offensive guru--Steve Wilks. When Rosen was asked about the firing of Steve Wilks and how he felt about, he gave almost the epitome of a classy, humble and mature answer:

"I have thoughts, but it's not really my place to share it," he said, per USA Today's Cards Wire. "I love all the coaches here. We've battled our butts off. It's been a fun rookie year."

And this is the guy who has character concerns? Please explain this to me.

You look at the total package on the field...yes you'd like him to have a stronger build but he's an absolute beautiful passer when it comes his throwing motion, footwork, balance, keeping his eyes down the field. I know he was criticized for a perceived lack of commitment or passion for the game but when you see someone that polished coming out of college you know he worked fanatically to get to that point.

He does rub a lot of NFL folks the wrong way. Coming across as aloof, snobby, made some ignorant and immature political statements. But who cares at this point. When you've got his brain and his physical tool set it makes sense to trade for him if he's available

In comment 14341874 Coach Red Beaulieu said:

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In comment 14341863 ryanmkeane said: Quote: thing with Rosen. Doesn’t feel like he is any less durable than the other QBs who have come out recently. He played every snap he was given last year. Darnold missed 3 games. Darnold missed 3 games because of the devastating injury of sucking.

He had a foot injury from a terrible offensive line. Came back and was one of the best QB's in football. At 21 years old with no talent in front of him

https://clutchpoints.com/jets-news-sam-darnold-is-the-top-rated-quarterback-over-the-last-3-weeks-per-pro-football-focus/

I don't think this coach red guy watches football? Do you?

In comment 14341939 Go Terps said:

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He throws the short and intermediate stuff with a high level of accuracy and timing. His background in tennis tells us he likely has excellent footwork and body control... critical in the short passing game. Drew Brees was also a high level tennis player, and you can see why when you watch him throw screens and quick timing passes. Conversely Eli has always struggled with that. He's always been poor in the screen game; his best work was always done intermediate to deep and outside the hash marks. Look at our offensive personnel: Barkley, Engram, Tate. These aren't guys winning jump balls down the field; we want these guys catching short, accurate passes and maximizing YAC. Rosen has the edge over Eli there already.

Excellent analysis.

fanofthejets said:

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I don't think this coach red guy watches football? Do you?

Dunno whether he watches the games, but he has awesome sources inside every locker room in the NFL. ;o)

In comment 14341939 Go Terps said:

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He throws the short and intermediate stuff with a high level of accuracy and timing. His background in tennis tells us he likely has excellent footwork and body control... critical in the short passing game. Drew Brees was also a high level tennis player, and you can see why when you watch him throw screens and quick timing passes. Conversely Eli has always struggled with that. He's always been poor in the screen game; his best work was always done intermediate to deep and outside the hash marks. Look at our offensive personnel: Barkley, Engram, Tate. These aren't guys winning jump balls down the field; we want these guys catching short, accurate passes and maximizing YAC. Rosen has the edge over Eli there already.

I think you sell Eli a bit short but yes Rosen in theory could be a better fit for what we have on offense now (provided he reaches his ceiling).

In comment 14342021 UberAlias said:

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The guy is really accurate. People here talk all about the poor season he had but I wonder how many actually saw him play. Yes, he is learning, like every rookie QB. But ball placement of his throws in some of the games I saw was really impressive. He can move better than I thought as well.

Yeah, he would be real interesting here. And if we got him without giving up a 1st round pick that would be tremendous.

[quote] Big mistake. He does a horrible job of controlling his mouth. This is a big liability for anyone who plays in New York. The potential for distraction is multiples of OBJ.


And everybody loves Aaron Rodgers. He has the reputation of being such a nice guy. Remember what Leo Durocher said about 'nice guys.'(oops! my age is showing).

Trade for Rosen. Show him a little man love. Give him an opportunity to grow up. I rate him above Haskins. We're defo not taking Haskins or Rosen with our No.6 pick.

but if you're judging all of the QB's from last years draft on solely on arm talent, intelligence, and accuracy then Rosen would have been the unanimous #1 pick.

In comment 14342605 Jay on the Island said:

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but if you're judging all of the QB's from last years draft on solely on arm talent, intelligence, and accuracy then Rosen would have been the unanimous #1 pick.

True that. You can include Footwork as well.

In comment 14342608 Pan-handler said:

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In comment 14342605 Jay on the Island said: Quote: but if you're judging all of the QB's from last years draft on solely on arm talent, intelligence, and accuracy then Rosen would have been the unanimous #1 pick. True that. You can include Footwork as well.

Rosen also just turned 22 last month also.

Must not value those sorts of things.

that this regime will move to a QB with a little more mobility post Eli.

In comment 14341823 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 14341785 Bernie said: Quote: In comment 14341477 section125 said: Quote: Let the chips ride. I'm with you, but the bad attitude crowd will be here soon. Thay’s me. Sorry, but in a league that practices very little and the majority of game day prep is film study, give me the guy who LOVES football to be the leader of the team. And that’s not Rosen. Physically he may have the skills, but if you are not passionate about it mentally, I have my doubts about his production over the long term. It’s telling when a former coach calls a player out by name on the way out the door. So I'm clear, when McAdoo called out Eli, McAdoo was a clown, but when Mora failed to endorse Rosen, that's airtight and legit. I don't even want Rosen, but that logic is flawed.

No it’s not. Mora’s comment was that Rosen was the last one in the facility and the first to leave and Rosen does not love football.

McAdoo’s criticism of Eli has nothing to do with this

In comment 14343149 Bernie said:

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In comment 14341823 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 14341785 Bernie said: Quote: In comment 14341477 section125 said: Quote: Let the chips ride. I'm with you, but the bad attitude crowd will be here soon. Thay’s me. Sorry, but in a league that practices very little and the majority of game day prep is film study, give me the guy who LOVES football to be the leader of the team. And that’s not Rosen. Physically he may have the skills, but if you are not passionate about it mentally, I have my doubts about his production over the long term. It’s telling when a former coach calls a player out by name on the way out the door. So I'm clear, when McAdoo called out Eli, McAdoo was a clown, but when Mora failed to endorse Rosen, that's airtight and legit. I don't even want Rosen, but that logic is flawed. No it’s not. Mora’s comment was that Rosen was the last one in the facility and the first to leave and Rosen does not love football. McAdoo’s criticism of Eli has nothing to do with this

At the risk of sounding like Radar, can you please provide a source and a link to that? I've heard a lot of disparaging commentary on Rosen, but I don't think I've heard that direct of an indictment of his commitment.