Josh Rosen elite? Re read Sy,s evaluation

Let the chips ride. I'm with you, but the bad attitude crowd will be here soon.

it is linked below.
Sy's QB Review from 2018 - ( New Window )

I think they are trying to sell that #1 slot. I just hope the Giants don't fall for it. No guts no glory nonsense.

No guts no glory to me means they want that #1 spot. Read the tea leaves from DG presser. He wants to do what EA did for the Giants.

I believe they want Kyler.. right or wrong I see them packaging the 6 & 17 & the 3 from Cleveland to get him.

I think the Cardnials are playing this correctly and we might over pay for this move. No Guts No Glory.

No Guts No Glory doesn't mean trading for Rosen.

Just my take.

They are either shopping Rosen or not, no?


So its like the scalper whose screaming "need tickets" but are really selling them?

One way to look at it

In comment 14341486 Tom from LI said:

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I think they are trying to sell that #1 slot. I just hope the Giants don't fall for it. No guts no glory nonsense. No guts no glory to me means they want that #1 spot. Read the tea leaves from DG presser. He wants to do what EA did for the Giants. I believe they want Kyler.. right or wrong I see them packaging the 6 & 17 & the 3 from Cleveland to get him. I think the Cardnials are playing this correctly and we might over pay for this move. No Guts No Glory. No Guts No Glory doesn't mean trading for Rosen. Just my take. My take is just the opposite. You change your HC after one year & bring in Klingsbury, who has the opportunity to draft the absolute QB fit to his offense in Murray. We haven't heard anything about him changing his offense to fit Rosen,so I believe Rosen is/or will be available. Again,I'll refer to the above post & Sy56's evaluation of Rosen last year. Making the trade will allow Rosen a year(or less) to sit under Eli after a season where he was completely beat up. I don't believe the Giants will have to give up a #1 to get him which will allow DG's "win now while rebuilding"scenario to happen!

That said, I don't think it's happening.

Other than he was fortunate to get his his next and final concussion. He’s a time bomb.

That's important too because they have way more info than Sy does.

If they are trying to trade him, that means that THEY don't feel he is a QB you can build your team around.

To me, the Cards hiring a coach whose experience doesn't mesh with Rosen's abilities said to me that Rosen isn't the person you build a team around. If he was, they would have hired someone different.

the best player from that draft plus one of the top qb's in a draft which was supposed to be great on qb talent. The biggest question in last year's draft was should we take Barkley or one of the top qb's with the 2nd pick in that draft. If we trade for Rosen, we'll end up with both.

I'd like to add one thing. I haven't seen his nfl games, but as a college qb, he excelled in leading his receivers with the ball so they could get more yards after the catch.

In comment 14341486 Tom from LI said:

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I think they are trying to sell that #1 slot. I just hope the Giants don't fall for it. No guts no glory nonsense. No guts no glory to me means they want that #1 spot. Read the tea leaves from DG presser. He wants to do what EA did for the Giants. I believe they want Kyler.. right or wrong I see them packaging the 6 & 17 & the 3 from Cleveland to get him. I think the Cardnials are playing this correctly and we might over pay for this move. No Guts No Glory. No Guts No Glory doesn't mean trading for Rosen. Just my take.

I've been saying the exact same thing. Idk why, but I have a gut feeling they move up to take Kyler.

His cap hit will be a pittance for 4 years.

If he doesnt work out it will stink to have wasted a 2nd but that is not much ti risk for a guy w his talent.

If it doesnt work out you go all in on Trevor Lawrence

The Cards are taking KM as sure as the Giants are keeping Eli this year.

But I’m pretty sure if they go for the rookie qb they will trade Rosen to the best offer. I think a one pick is the winner. Miami maybe? Washington maybe? Or us maybe?

That to get the next franchise quarterback for the NY Giants relies entirely on the Arizona Cardinals doing something dumb.

In comment 14341560 mikeinbloomfield said:

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That to get the next franchise quarterback for the NY Giants relies entirely on the Arizona Cardinals doing something dumb.

Yeah, but I'm not certain at this point that DG won't do the dumb thing and trade up to #1 for Murray.

i'd be thrilled if we do that.

and the Cards moving Rosen means nothing. Favre and Brees were both traded as well. Couldn't build a team around those guys?

And the Bucs drafted Testaverde and traded Steve Young to the 9ers for a 2nd and 4th.

Giving up a haul to get Murray is a bad way to do it since it is pretty obvious he would sit behind Eli until the team was eliminated from the playoffs.

At #6 and #17 you should be able to get guys that produce this year. Giving away two guys like that for someone who will not see the field is certainly not trying to compete this year.

But as we have seen so far, what DG says and what DG does are often different things.

Would be a steal to get Murray. This guy is going to be a playmaker like few ever seen in the league. We should be so lucky.

In comment 14341477 section125 said:

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Let the chips ride. I'm with you, but the bad attitude crowd will be here soon.

Haha - seriously. I’m also in on Rosen.

In comment 14341519 JohnB said:

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That's important too because they have way more info than Sy does. If they are trying to trade him, that means that THEY don't feel he is a QB you can build your team around. To me, the Cards hiring a coach whose experience doesn't mesh with Rosen's abilities said to me that Rosen isn't the person you build a team around. If he was, they would have hired someone different.

I think this logic is flawed and backwards. I think because they found themselves with the number 1 pick, they were able to go get a coach they liked, even if his philosophy was different from that of the QB they had.

Getting calamari and trading Rosen for more premium picks is not condemnation on Rosen.

is his cap hit is so small, the risk here is minimal. Its the only way for DG to have his cake and it eat too! I liked Rosen coming out last year. Gettleman was around when the Accorsi took a chance on Kerry Collins. So making a deal like this is certainly within his wheelhouse. If the Cards insist on a first, then I would say 17 and our 2nd but they have to give us their 3rd (first pick in that round) to balance out. I would bet what we are offering would beat any other package. I believe the Cards are taking Murray (WAY to much smoke there). So, if the Giants want Rosen, I think its HIGHLY likely he's there to be had.

In comment 14341666 Dave on the UWS said:

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is his cap hit is so small, the risk here is minimal. Its the only way for DG to have his cake and it eat too! I liked Rosen coming out last year. Gettleman was around when the Accorsi took a chance on Kerry Collins. So making a deal like this is certainly within his wheelhouse. If the Cards insist on a first, then I would say 17 and our 2nd but they have to give us their 3rd (first pick in that round) to balance out. I would bet what we are offering would beat any other package. I believe the Cards are taking Murray (WAY to much smoke there). So, if the Giants want Rosen, I think its HIGHLY likely he's there to be had.

Why are you betting the Giants could beat any other package? What if Miami offered there 13th?

just because they're looking to trade hime doesn't automatically mean he's damaged goods, they might just love Murray that much. Remember the Brees / Rivers situation? No need to draft Rivers but they loved him.

In comment 14341682 csb said:

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just because they're looking to trade hime doesn't automatically mean he's damaged goods, they might just love Murray that much. Remember the Brees / Rivers situation? No need to draft Rivers but they loved him.

Brees has the shoulder injury. Was a bad one if I recall that people weren’t sure if he’d fully recover from

Big mistake. He does a horrible job of controlling his mouth. This is a big liability for anyone who plays in New York. The potential for distraction is multiples of OBJ.

In an era of entitled athletes, Rosen is near the head of the pack. The son of a surgeon he has never faced any real adversity in his life but he is sensitive when folks bring it up.

One NFL executive summed it up this way, "Everybody recognizes the talent with Rosen, but he is not the top guy in the draft because nobody likes him,"

There are plenty more examples to cite. Of course, there are two sides to every story, but there is a lot smoke around Rosen's character. Ignore it at your own peril.

And we haven't even started on his injury history.

When they drafted him he had been the starter for two years; he wasn't a Pro Bowler til 2004 but he had shown the ability to be a very good young NFL QB.

To the poster that said there's no downside to trading for Rosen...what do you call the pick or picks required to trade for him? Those would be valuable, and if he busts, that's called downside. Plus the opportunity cost that you probably aren't going to go after one of the good QBs in next year's draft because Rosen likely wouldn't play much this year and would already be regarded as the heir apparent.

Plenty of downside.

In comment 14341679 GFAN52 said:

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Why are you betting the Giants could beat any other package? What if Miami offered there 13th?

The odds are Miami won't...they are in full tank mode for Tua. Getting Rosen would hurt the tank.

I think the Giants just need to wait this out, let Arizona come to them. Once the draft comes, it's harder on the Cardinals..drafting a QB at #1 means everyone knows they have to get rid of Rosen, so they lose leverage. I think that there's been enough "leaks" showing the Giants are interested so that discussions can start if Arizona is serious.

That does not mean the Giants will pull the trigger, but I'm sure they will listen. You really don't want to make the first call in these situations unless you have to.

In comment 14341534 Ira said:

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I haven't seen his nfl games, but as a college qb, he excelled in leading his receivers with the ball so they could get more yards after the catch.

A QB can do that??? Has anyone told Eli, lol?

In comment 14341477 section125 said:

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Let the chips ride. I'm with you, but the bad attitude crowd will be here soon.

Thay’s me. Sorry, but in a league that practices very little and the majority of game day prep is film study, give me the guy who LOVES football to be the leader of the team. And that’s not Rosen. Physically he may have the skills, but if you are not passionate about it mentally, I have my doubts about his production over the long term. It’s telling when a former coach calls a player out by name on the way out the door.

In comment 14341772 Bill in UT said:

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In comment 14341534 Ira said: Quote: I haven't seen his nfl games, but as a college qb, he excelled in leading his receivers with the ball so they could get more yards after the catch. A QB can do that??? Has anyone told Eli, lol?

They did but he’s been running for his life in the pocket.

get Rosen, I hope Miami does. One less team in competition for QB 2020 race.

and cutting Tanney.

The 2nd rd pick, or extra 1M/yr that it'd cost?

In comment 14341706 since1925 said:

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Big mistake. He does a horrible job of controlling his mouth. This is a big liability for anyone who plays in New York. The potential for distraction is multiples of OBJ. In an era of entitled athletes, Rosen is near the head of the pack. The son of a surgeon he has never faced any real adversity in his life but he is sensitive when folks bring it up. One NFL executive summed it up this way, "Everybody recognizes the talent with Rosen, but he is not the top guy in the draft because nobody likes him," There are plenty more examples to cite. Of course, there are two sides to every story, but there is a lot smoke around Rosen's character. Ignore it at your own peril. And we haven't even started on his injury history.

One opinion. Many others had him as the #1 QB last year

Rosen or Murray, whomever Arizona doesn't want.

In comment 14341785 Bernie said:

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In comment 14341477 section125 said: Quote: Let the chips ride. I'm with you, but the bad attitude crowd will be here soon. Thay’s me. Sorry, but in a league that practices very little and the majority of game day prep is film study, give me the guy who LOVES football to be the leader of the team. And that’s not Rosen. Physically he may have the skills, but if you are not passionate about it mentally, I have my doubts about his production over the long term. It’s telling when a former coach calls a player out by name on the way out the door.

So I'm clear, when McAdoo called out Eli, McAdoo was a clown, but when Mora failed to endorse Rosen, that's airtight and legit.

I don't even want Rosen, but that logic is flawed.

Bill L said:

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Other than he was fortunate to get his his next and final concussion. He’s a time bomb.

Maybe, maybe not. Aaron Rodgers has suffered at least three concussions - including two within two months during his championship season - and those are just the knockouts. He's a time bomb too, yet the Packers continue to stake their fortunes on him at age 35. His cap hit over the next three years, before he becomes somewhat cuttable, is over $92MM.

Obviously, Rosen isn't Rodgers. When healthy, Rodgers is top five all-time. But if Rosen is a time bomb because of concussions, at least he's a relatively cheap, low-megatonnage version.

In comment 14341552 Capt. Don said:

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His cap hit will be a pittance for 4 years. If he doesnt work out it will stink to have wasted a 2nd but that is not much ti risk for a guy w his talent. If it doesnt work out you go all in on Trevor Lawrence

I agree completely. It is more than worth the gamble if he can be had for a 2nd round pick. He would more than likely play several games this season at some point and if he doesn't show any progress the Giants could then turn their attention towards Fromm next year or Lawrence/Fields the year after. If the Giants acquire Rosen I would like to see them be more aggressive in free agency by adding Remmers, Justin Houston, and Danny Shelton. Also re-sign S Michael Thomas.

Then in the draft add
1st 6th OLB Montez
1st 17th ILB Devin Bush
3rd CB Justin Layne
4th WR Emanuel Hall
4th DT Renell Wren
5th QB Tyree Jackson
5th G Dominique Biggs
5th TE Foster Moreau
6th C Sam Mustipher
7th OT Yosuah Nijman
7th WR Damion Willis

QB Manning, Rosen, Jackson
RB Barkley, Gallman, Martin
FB Penny
WR Tate, Shepard, Hall, Jawill Davis, Corey Coleman, Damion Willis
TE Engram, Ellison, Moreau
LT Solder Wheeler
LG Hernandez Biggs
C Halapio, Pulley
G Zeitler Mustipher
RT Remmers Nijman

DE Tomlinson, McIntosh
NT Shelton, Wren
DE Hill, Pierre

OLB Houston, Sweat
ILB Bush, Goodson
ILB Ogletree, Davis
OLB Golden, Carter, Martin

CB Jenkins, Beal, Haley, Layne, Hamilton
FS Bethea, Chandler
SS Peppers, Thomas

In comment 14341606 markky said:

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i'd be thrilled if we do that. and the Cards moving Rosen means nothing. Favre and Brees were both traded as well. Couldn't build a team around those guys? And the Bucs drafted Testaverde and traded Steve Young to the 9ers for a 2nd and 4th.

Bad analogies, none of them were a top ten pick being dumped like hot garbage after 1 year.

He is elite, elite levels of douchiness. In theory it might be a good idea to get him for cheap and correct his douchiness problem, but his douchiness seems congenital.

issue. But he held up pretty well to a brutal beating in AZ. If we can get him for a 2nd, I'd jump all over that.

thing with Rosen. Doesn’t feel like he is any less durable than the other QBs who have come out recently. He played every snap he was given last year. Darnold missed 3 games.

to make excuses for every single QB prospect. Just wait until Trevor Lawrence comes out. The narrative will be “is he too good?”

In comment 14341863 ryanmkeane said:

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thing with Rosen. Doesn’t feel like he is any less durable than the other QBs who have come out recently. He played every snap he was given last year. Darnold missed 3 games.

Darnold missed 3 games because of the devastating injury of sucking.

In comment 14341682 csb said:

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just because they're looking to trade hime doesn't automatically mean he's damaged goods, they might just love Murray that much. Remember the Brees / Rivers situation? No need to draft Rivers but they loved him.

Yes this is exactly right. Its also a new regime after 1 short year. Total change of direction and vision. Kyler likely fits the ideal vision for the offense Kingsberry wants to run alot more than a less moblie and athletic Rosen does.

In comment 14341616 Justlurking said:

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In comment 14341477 section125 said: Quote: Let the chips ride. I'm with you, but the bad attitude crowd will be here soon. Haha - seriously. I’m also in on Rosen.

Rosen was also one of my top guys with the concerns being the concussions and character. After a year in the league of getting hit pretty good and no recurrance that concern is much less now. On The character stuff we havent heard anything additional negatives.

Hes extremely cerebral, can anticipate routes, throws a beautiful ball and is very accurate.

Coach Red Beaulieu said:

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He is elite, elite levels of douchiness. In theory it might be a good idea to get him for cheap and correct his douchiness problem, but his douchiness seems congenital.

As are your lack of a civil vocabulary and inability to support your opinion with anything more persuasive than offensive, sexist slurs. Your repetitive references to vaginal cleansing products, on multiple threads, tell us far more about you than about Josh Rosen.

I have no opinion about the kid either way; but I'm forming a pretty firm view of some of his detractors.

In comment 14341805 AdamBrag said:

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Rosen or Murray, whomever Arizona doesn't want.

Agree with this.
Can't believe Cards won't take Murray at one, and if they don't Oakland will.
Given our across the board needs, it's very risky to forego our first round picks plus more to move up for Murray.

He throws the short and intermediate stuff with a high level of accuracy and timing. His background in tennis tells us he likely has excellent footwork and body control... critical in the short passing game. Drew Brees was also a high level tennis player, and you can see why when you watch him throw screens and quick timing passes.

Conversely Eli has always struggled with that. He's always been poor in the screen game; his best work was always done intermediate to deep and outside the hash marks.

Look at our offensive personnel: Barkley, Engram, Tate. These aren't guys winning jump balls down the field; we want these guys catching short, accurate passes and maximizing YAC. Rosen has the edge over Eli there already.

In comment 14341939 Go Terps said:

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He throws the short and intermediate stuff with a high level of accuracy and timing. His background in tennis tells us he likely has excellent footwork and body control... critical in the short passing game. Drew Brees was also a high level tennis player, and you can see why when you watch him throw screens and quick timing passes. Conversely Eli has always struggled with that. He's always been poor in the screen game; his best work was always done intermediate to deep and outside the hash marks. Look at our offensive personnel: Barkley, Engram, Tate. These aren't guys winning jump balls down the field; we want these guys catching short, accurate passes and maximizing YAC. Rosen has the edge over Eli there already.

Agree with you here Terps. Eli's best fit was the Coughlin/Gilbride style offense. He has never been a WCO guy.