A lot of people here prefer this strategy & I support it as well, but it is no given.
1. A lot of the pessimists on this site are assuming the Giants will win 3-4 games. I’m not seeing it. It’s as hard to go 3-13 in the NFL as it is 13-3. I actually think the Giants will play very motivated this season & Gettleman has cleared out much of the drama. I think the floor is 6-7 wins & the schedule appears to be manageable as of now.
2. There potentially could be a ton of teams looking for QB. With the likes of Brady, Brees, Rivers & Ben a year older - those teams could potentially be aggressive like KC was in 2017. Then we get into teams that clearly will be looking at QB:
NYG
WSH
TEN
CIN
DEN
There are also teams that could move on from their expensive QBs:
DET
OAK
11 teams could make a move for a QB. That is 11 teams for Tua, Herbert & Fromm.
I think it is far from a given the Giants can easily get one of these guys. I have no issues not going QB this year - we all knew this was a weaker class than last year & part of me is concerned Haskins jumped up by Herbert going back to school. This is a big reason so many people advocated going QB last April.
If the plan is to get a QB in 20, we need to get another 1st rounder. As much as I would love to stay at 17 & draft an impact player, it might be best to trade down if that option is available to net another 1st in 20.
I’m all for waiting until next year, but Gettleman will have competition & we need to start loading up on assets.
I don know if that puts me in the minooor not.
I don’t even go so far as to state 9-7 even if the made playoffs for one and done like 16.
That probably seems radical to some, but the future is not Eli, so let s move on now,
imo, of those teams looking in 2020, the ones in the middle slots ( likely where the NYG will be) that will do the best aren't the ones that accumulate draft slots in 2019...its the ones best able to have the cap room and ability to not need 2021 slots and get their picked Qb off to a good start behind a good Ol. Again, imo
2) We keep hearing the Giants truly wan to go out and have a winning season. That seems counter intuitive to waiting until next year to draft a QB. For one, if we are in the middle of the round or later in the round (i am not saying we will be, but we are trying to use the Giants logic) trading up is very expensive. It’s more than just the following years 1st. Someone mentioned what it cost to move up to get Eli...that was from 4 to 1 and with Eli refusing to play in San Diego. The Rams gave up 2 1sts, 2 2nds, 2 3rds to go get Goff. That is essentially 2 drafts since most of the players that have a chance to start are drafted in those rounds. The 2nd issue is if we have a winning season, do you really want to then go with a rookie at QB? That is why the KC model is appealing. The new QB gets a year to sit and learn so there isn’t that immense learning curve when he starts.
3) This year the Giants have a lot of picks and not a lot of cap. Next year it is the opposite. It would (again using logic) make much more sense to trade up this season and then sign free agents next year to fill in remaining holes.
I have no idea what the Giants will do. All signs point to drafting front 7 and o-line early and often in this draft. Rebuild the trenches all in one draft. Can’t say that is a terrible idea. It just seems foolish to target a player in an upcoming draft. Gettleman always talks about never targeting a player because you can over-draft them...but he’s gonna target a player a full year out? That part doesn’t make much sense to me.
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In comment 14341607 Eman11 said:
So do you think it's better to draft a QB or trade for one just to get a QB even if DG doesn't think they're the answer?
This is stupid. I was talking about 2020. Of course DG would have to believe in who he is drafting. Geesh!
Why is it stupid? I was simply asking what you thought, and how was I to know what you thought without asking?
The above "So do you think it's better to draft a QB or trade for one just to get a QB even if DG doesn't think they're the answer?" isn't asking me what I thought it's assuming I want DG to "get a QB even if DG doesn't think they're the answer?" I never said anything like that nor was that the topic of the post.
Most likely they will select a QB with one of their picks in this year's draft (and if they really like one of them, they could make an aggressively play), but either way, their focus is on 2019 and they'll worry about next year next year.
The talent on the team is horrific.
6-7 wins is their ceiling and that's if everything goes well.
This team has been absolutely awful and the talent level just isn't there.
7 wins would be a miracle. The HC is a loser, talent sucks.
One could even say leaking all this stuff on Murray while it’s pretty clear he goes to Arizona is tactially effective. That way they could say we did one we just couldn’t get him.
Unfortunately, I believe there is some truth to what you write
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“This is the big reason people wanted a quarterback last year”
Regarding possible quarterbacks we have had expressed here:
Josh Allen. NO
Sam Darnold. NO
Josh Rosen. NO
Haskins. NO
Murray. NO
Rosen again. NO
As one of those fans, right or wrong, who wanted quarterback last season, I can’t adequately express how annoying I find this.
Guarantee if Eli has good season, we will see writte next season about Tua, Herbert and Fromm
Something to the effect it will cost too much to move up, let s keep building around Eli.
Agreed Joe. I think even if we repeat something similar to last year plenty of people will gripe about next years QBs as well. It’s just the way it is.
joeinpa and mattyblue..
I am right there with you. If either or both of Darnold/Rosen become championship caliber QBs the selection of Barkley is a massive blunder, full stop, even if Barkley is Jim fucking Brown. You take the QB when the guy is there for you. You don't play dopey games hoping to land the premiere qb in the draft two years from now. That is a fools errand that could cost you three first rounders or more. Only a bunch of jokers would plan to land a strategy like that.
Same. I'd love to get Trevor Lawrence in 2021 too, and that would be worth the wait, but it's a pipe dream at best that they have a legit chance to get him.
This almost never happens because teams don't let their franchise QBs leave in free agency.
The only possibility of getting a franchise QB through free agency is either (a) the team that let him go didn't think he was a legit franchise QB after having him for several years, and usually they're right (see Kirk Cousins, Ryan Tannehill, Blake Bortles), (b) the QB is coming off of a serious injury and there are real questions about whether he can come back and play as well (see Drew Brees, Teddy Bridgewater, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning even), (c) he is viewed as too old and washed up to be a long term answer and the team has a great opportunity at a young, new answer (see Andrew Luck/Peyton Manning, Steve Young/Joe Montana) or maybe (d) the QB has serious personal/character concerns that make his team give up on him (see Kerry Collins).
Only (B) and (D) are legit free agent QB prospects to consider, and those opportunities do not come along often. As for (A), how much happier are the Jets right now that they drafted Darnold rather than signing Kirk Cousins or Case Keenum?
Now we’re down to 6 teams and 3 QB prospects. If the Steelers, Pats, Chargers, and Saints have the years they had this year how will they be able to offer more than the Giants to move up?
That leaves 2 teams and 3 QBs.
The only way I see the Giants not getting their guy is if they have a phenomenal 2019 season, which isn’t the worst thing in the world.
Why do you think any team will want to start over with a free agent QB who another team didn't think was good enough rather than taking a shot at a top 10 draft pick? Most teams want to pick their franchise QB in the draft, and for good reason. It's incredibly rare that a QB begins with one team and ends up becoming a franchise QB for another. Drew Brees is probably the only one in the last 20 years. At most, a team would sign a free agent QB as a bridge for their top 10 pick. Also, I'd say Stafford is the only true high caliber franchise QB of the guys you listed (the other two were second round picks and have played like good second round picks, not top 10 draft picks), and why do you think he is leaving Detroit?
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Is that Carr, Stafford, and Dalton would move to QB needy teams effectively taking them out of the market. Rosen and Haskins will go to QB needy teams taking them out of the market as well.
Now we’re down to 6 teams and 3 QB prospects. If the Steelers, Pats, Chargers, and Saints have the years they had this year how will they be able to offer more than the Giants to move up?
That leaves 2 teams and 3 QBs.
The only way I see the Giants not getting their guy is if they have a phenomenal 2019 season, which isn’t the worst thing in the world.
Why do you think any team will want to start over with a free agent QB who another team didn't think was good enough rather than taking a shot at a top 10 draft pick? Most teams want to pick their franchise QB in the draft, and for good reason. It's incredibly rare that a QB begins with one team and ends up becoming a franchise QB for another. Drew Brees is probably the only one in the last 20 years. At most, a team would sign a free agent QB as a bridge for their top 10 pick. Also, I'd say Stafford is the only true high caliber franchise QB of the guys you listed (the other two were second round picks and have played like good second round picks, not top 10 draft picks), and why do you think he is leaving Detroit?
He is wrong. Next year there will be 10-13 teams looking. He is wearing Bigblue tinted glasses.
He thinks other teams will accept old age, mediocrity or not possibly getting an elite QB vs the QB they have. He doesn't want to admit that he thinks it's okay for other teams to have short-term vision.
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In comment 14341888 WillVAB said:
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Is that Carr, Stafford, and Dalton would move to QB needy teams effectively taking them out of the market. Rosen and Haskins will go to QB needy teams taking them out of the market as well.
Now we’re down to 6 teams and 3 QB prospects. If the Steelers, Pats, Chargers, and Saints have the years they had this year how will they be able to offer more than the Giants to move up?
That leaves 2 teams and 3 QBs.
The only way I see the Giants not getting their guy is if they have a phenomenal 2019 season, which isn’t the worst thing in the world.
Why do you think any team will want to start over with a free agent QB who another team didn't think was good enough rather than taking a shot at a top 10 draft pick? Most teams want to pick their franchise QB in the draft, and for good reason. It's incredibly rare that a QB begins with one team and ends up becoming a franchise QB for another. Drew Brees is probably the only one in the last 20 years. At most, a team would sign a free agent QB as a bridge for their top 10 pick. Also, I'd say Stafford is the only true high caliber franchise QB of the guys you listed (the other two were second round picks and have played like good second round picks, not top 10 draft picks), and why do you think he is leaving Detroit?
He is wrong. Next year there will be 10-13 teams looking. He is wearing Bigblue tinted glasses.
He thinks other teams will accept old age, mediocrity or not possibly getting an elite QB vs the QB they have. He doesn't want to admit that he thinks it's okay for other teams to have short-term vision.
Yea a third of the league is going to be vying for a QB in the draft next year. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
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Is that Carr, Stafford, and Dalton would move to QB needy teams effectively taking them out of the market. Rosen and Haskins will go to QB needy teams taking them out of the market as well.
Now we’re down to 6 teams and 3 QB prospects. If the Steelers, Pats, Chargers, and Saints have the years they had this year how will they be able to offer more than the Giants to move up?
That leaves 2 teams and 3 QBs.
The only way I see the Giants not getting their guy is if they have a phenomenal 2019 season, which isn’t the worst thing in the world.
Why do you think any team will want to start over with a free agent QB who another team didn't think was good enough rather than taking a shot at a top 10 draft pick? Most teams want to pick their franchise QB in the draft, and for good reason. It's incredibly rare that a QB begins with one team and ends up becoming a franchise QB for another. Drew Brees is probably the only one in the last 20 years. At most, a team would sign a free agent QB as a bridge for their top 10 pick. Also, I'd say Stafford is the only true high caliber franchise QB of the guys you listed (the other two were second round picks and have played like good second round picks, not top 10 draft picks), and why do you think he is leaving Detroit?
Jacksonville Jaguars?
It happens every year. Maybe the team likes the floor of the FA more than the risk of the draft pick. Maybe the team would rather secure stability at the position in FA rather than rolling the dice in the draft or trading an arm and a leg to get their guy. Maybe they don’t think they’ll be able to get the guy they want in the draft.
There’s plenty of reasons why teams do it and it happens every year.
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In comment 14341722 BillT said:
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In comment 14341607 Eman11 said:
So do you think it's better to draft a QB or trade for one just to get a QB even if DG doesn't think they're the answer?
This is stupid. I was talking about 2020. Of course DG would have to believe in who he is drafting. Geesh!
Why is it stupid? I was simply asking what you thought, and how was I to know what you thought without asking?
The above "So do you think it's better to draft a QB or trade for one just to get a QB even if DG doesn't think they're the answer?" isn't asking me what I thought it's assuming I want DG to "get a QB even if DG doesn't think they're the answer?" I never said anything like that nor was that the topic of the post.
I didn't assume anything, only posed a scenario and asked if you thought that one was better. I never said or even implied you thought that, only asked ( see the ?) your opinion on that scenario.
I think maybe you read something into what I was asking, and you assumed I knew what you wanted when in fact it really was just a question.
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In comment 14342312 Danny80 said:
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In comment 14341888 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Is that Carr, Stafford, and Dalton would move to QB needy teams effectively taking them out of the market. Rosen and Haskins will go to QB needy teams taking them out of the market as well.
Now we’re down to 6 teams and 3 QB prospects. If the Steelers, Pats, Chargers, and Saints have the years they had this year how will they be able to offer more than the Giants to move up?
That leaves 2 teams and 3 QBs.
The only way I see the Giants not getting their guy is if they have a phenomenal 2019 season, which isn’t the worst thing in the world.
Why do you think any team will want to start over with a free agent QB who another team didn't think was good enough rather than taking a shot at a top 10 draft pick? Most teams want to pick their franchise QB in the draft, and for good reason. It's incredibly rare that a QB begins with one team and ends up becoming a franchise QB for another. Drew Brees is probably the only one in the last 20 years. At most, a team would sign a free agent QB as a bridge for their top 10 pick. Also, I'd say Stafford is the only true high caliber franchise QB of the guys you listed (the other two were second round picks and have played like good second round picks, not top 10 draft picks), and why do you think he is leaving Detroit?
He is wrong. Next year there will be 10-13 teams looking. He is wearing Bigblue tinted glasses.
He thinks other teams will accept old age, mediocrity or not possibly getting an elite QB vs the QB they have. He doesn't want to admit that he thinks it's okay for other teams to have short-term vision.
Yea a third of the league is going to be vying for a QB in the draft next year. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
Umm David Te said the same thing he had 10 teams. You know how silly you sound with your blind homerism wiht the Gmen? Sure let's get tshsi straight -- fans like you down play this upcoming class and many of you weren't so high on lats year's class yet ALL the teams with these supposed "weak QB's" are going to just miraculously bypass potential elite QB's when you;ve seen since day 1 how teams STRETCH to get QB's?
Not to mention teams with older qb's etc regardless if the new QB may have to sit?
You can search on this very site and see David Te indicate THIRTEEN TEAMS. SO he is the nutjob and not you?
SO I want to be clear -- YOU are calling David Te silly?
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In comment 14342328 giantstock said:
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In comment 14342312 Danny80 said:
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In comment 14341888 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Is that Carr, Stafford, and Dalton would move to QB needy teams effectively taking them out of the market. Rosen and Haskins will go to QB needy teams taking them out of the market as well.
Now we’re down to 6 teams and 3 QB prospects. If the Steelers, Pats, Chargers, and Saints have the years they had this year how will they be able to offer more than the Giants to move up?
That leaves 2 teams and 3 QBs.
The only way I see the Giants not getting their guy is if they have a phenomenal 2019 season, which isn’t the worst thing in the world.
Why do you think any team will want to start over with a free agent QB who another team didn't think was good enough rather than taking a shot at a top 10 draft pick? Most teams want to pick their franchise QB in the draft, and for good reason. It's incredibly rare that a QB begins with one team and ends up becoming a franchise QB for another. Drew Brees is probably the only one in the last 20 years. At most, a team would sign a free agent QB as a bridge for their top 10 pick. Also, I'd say Stafford is the only true high caliber franchise QB of the guys you listed (the other two were second round picks and have played like good second round picks, not top 10 draft picks), and why do you think he is leaving Detroit?
He is wrong. Next year there will be 10-13 teams looking. He is wearing Bigblue tinted glasses.
He thinks other teams will accept old age, mediocrity or not possibly getting an elite QB vs the QB they have. He doesn't want to admit that he thinks it's okay for other teams to have short-term vision.
Yea a third of the league is going to be vying for a QB in the draft next year. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
Umm David Te said the same thing he had 10 teams. You know how silly you sound with your blind homerism wiht the Gmen? Sure let's get tshsi straight -- fans like you down play this upcoming class and many of you weren't so high on lats year's class yet ALL the teams with these supposed "weak QB's" are going to just miraculously bypass potential elite QB's when you;ve seen since day 1 how teams STRETCH to get QB's?
Not to mention teams with older qb's etc regardless if the new QB may have to sit?
You can search on this very site and see David Te indicate THIRTEEN TEAMS. SO he is the nutjob and not you?
SO I want to be clear -- YOU are calling David Te silly?
Actually he had 13 teams.
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In comment 14342328 giantstock said:
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In comment 14342312 Danny80 said:
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In comment 14341888 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Is that Carr, Stafford, and Dalton would move to QB needy teams effectively taking them out of the market. Rosen and Haskins will go to QB needy teams taking them out of the market as well.
Now we’re down to 6 teams and 3 QB prospects. If the Steelers, Pats, Chargers, and Saints have the years they had this year how will they be able to offer more than the Giants to move up?
That leaves 2 teams and 3 QBs.
The only way I see the Giants not getting their guy is if they have a phenomenal 2019 season, which isn’t the worst thing in the world.
Why do you think any team will want to start over with a free agent QB who another team didn't think was good enough rather than taking a shot at a top 10 draft pick? Most teams want to pick their franchise QB in the draft, and for good reason. It's incredibly rare that a QB begins with one team and ends up becoming a franchise QB for another. Drew Brees is probably the only one in the last 20 years. At most, a team would sign a free agent QB as a bridge for their top 10 pick. Also, I'd say Stafford is the only true high caliber franchise QB of the guys you listed (the other two were second round picks and have played like good second round picks, not top 10 draft picks), and why do you think he is leaving Detroit?
He is wrong. Next year there will be 10-13 teams looking. He is wearing Bigblue tinted glasses.
He thinks other teams will accept old age, mediocrity or not possibly getting an elite QB vs the QB they have. He doesn't want to admit that he thinks it's okay for other teams to have short-term vision.
Yea a third of the league is going to be vying for a QB in the draft next year. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
Umm David Te said the same thing he had 10 teams. You know how silly you sound with your blind homerism wiht the Gmen? Sure let's get tshsi straight -- fans like you down play this upcoming class and many of you weren't so high on lats year's class yet ALL the teams with these supposed "weak QB's" are going to just miraculously bypass potential elite QB's when you;ve seen since day 1 how teams STRETCH to get QB's?
Not to mention teams with older qb's etc regardless if the new QB may have to sit?
You can search on this very site and see David Te indicate THIRTEEN TEAMS. SO he is the nutjob and not you?
SO I want to be clear -- YOU are calling David Te silly?
Yea, he’s a fucking clown if he truly believes 13 teams are going to be jockeying for a QB in the draft next year. Not happening.
Assuming these reports are true, the Giants don't have a conviction on these QBs, you folks think they should take one anyway.
Isn't drafting players that you hope will be something more than what they have played up to how Reese and co got us into this mess in the first place. How has that strategy worked out.
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Yea, he’s a fucking clown if he truly believes 13 teams are going to be jockeying for a QB in the draft next year. Not happening.
You're a complete clown. WtF does "not happening" even mean? Not saying 13 qb's are going to be slected. You're too thick to have further conversations with. Your blindness to other teams issues is typical of a homer Giant bigbue tainted fan.