If you didn't like him you liked the trade. If you wanted him on this team and thought we could build around him than you view the trade negatively.
However, there are always exceptions and would love to hear opinions from you if that's you. So if you're either of the below people, care to share?
1. Didn't like OBJ and didn't like the trade.
or
2. Liked OBJ and thought he was a cornerstone and still view the trade positively.
I think hearing your opinions would be worthwhile - without the hate and noise in the other threads.
That’s how I would describe my view.
Able to expand on that?
I am in the camp that you don't build a SB team around a WR. It's all about team - solid defense / offense with a spattering of top skill players. What we had was a porous defense, the trench (on the offensive side) was a sieve, and we didn't play like a TEAM.
I'm happy with Barkley as our stud skill player and between EE, Shepard, (hopefully Tate) and a couple of pickups in the draft, we have a shot of turning things around and scoring more points...especially if the new look defense is as good as it's going to look on paper. I'm not worried about Eli as long as we put a line together to keep him upright and enough time to set himself and pick a receiver.
As should be repeated in every OBJ thread: we did not win with him, and if we don’t win this year - what has changed?
I thought while he is one of the top players in the NFL, his value around the NFL was higher than his abilities going forward.
Trade a player a year sooner rather than a year later.
Still rooting for him, but I am very happy with the trade...especially if Peppers is anywhere close to Collins.
Obviously OBJ turned into a mega-Super Star so I wasn't bitching too loudly over the past several years.
But at the time, I though WR ahead of Donald was a stupid ass bullshit move.
Why?
Because WRs don't carry a team, and don't usually carry a team to a championship.
That aside, I’m fine with the trade - if anything they should have done it last offseason and the return would likely have been higher.
Trading him 6 mos. after signing him to such a cap-killing deal, what the hell is DG thinking?
DG should have traded him last year before the draft.
Also, DG should have waited for his price or not trade him. He's too good of a player to give away for a mid-round 1st, the last (non-comp) pick of the 3rd, and a safety that has been a mixed bag for Cleveland (as much as reports say how Peppers has improved, he still only played 66% of defensive snaps last year).
Before the trade the Giants were a RT away from a scary-good offense. Now it looks like Barkley and a bunch of crap.
It had to happen. This became Barkley's team by the end of last season and IMO the FO felt that they didn't want that influence around him anymore.
Hate his bullshit game day antics - how many times did we see him negate a TD with a stupid, sometimes vulgar display that drew a 15-yard penalty on the KO? How much can you screw around with a kicking net without trouble?
Hate his off-the-field distractions - the interviews, the WRs on vacation before the 2016 playoff game, the photo with the babe in the sack, etc.
Hate the fact that he apparently is NOT willing to do what it takes to win - see above, the questionable missing of some games, shitting the bed big time in his one and only playoff game, and unwilling to fall on the on-side KO to seal a win against the Bears in a game they eventually lost late last season.
Sorry to see him go - the GIANTS had a much more dangerous offense and special teams with him than without him.
Glad to see him gone - His net worth to the team was actually MUCH less than it should have been.
Glad to see him gone - DG got an outstanding return in the trade - a mid-round 1st, a low 3rd, an up and coming young Safety, and nullification of the pick swap in the Vernon for Zeitler deal.
Glad to see him gone - DG was able to maximize the return by doing it now rather than later, and did it by sending him to an AFC team.
The bottom line, he's one of those guys that wants to win rather than one who hates to lose. Bye, bye.
Obviously OBJ turned into a mega-Super Star so I wasn't bitching too loudly over the past several years.
But at the time, I though WR ahead of Donald was a stupid ass bullshit move.
Why?
Because WRs don't carry a team, and don't usually carry a team to a championship.
I was in the Donald camp myself but defensive tackles don’t carry teams either, so not sure I see the point. It does not make sense that everyone keeps saying this - no position outside of QB carries a NFL team.
It’s almost like you only read the first line of what I wrote :)
I thought while he is one of the top players in the NFL, his value around the NFL was higher than his abilities going forward.
Trade a player a year sooner rather than a year later.
I like the Belichek philosophy of a year sooner than later as much as the next guy but I don’t think that applies to 26 year olds. I can live with trading such a player but the return has to be commensurate. This seems low. You think we got equal value back? The mid-1st round pick has to be valued for what it is now not what it could be.
Interesting angle - why do you think they were going to get worse? If they improved the o-line, which was all they ever needed to do to get the offense functioning again, you think they would have gotten worse?
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Did you feel they were detrimental to the team. If the answer is yes than he had to go. In my opinion, it was bad and was probably about to get worse which meant we'd get even less by hanging on to him longer.
Interesting angle - why do you think they were going to get worse? If they improved the o-line, which was all they ever needed to do to get the offense functioning again, you think they would have gotten worse?
I meant his behavior was about to get worse, not the team's offensive capabilities. There's a cumulative affect his type of personality has on a team. Eventually they would have had to part ways. The longer they waited, the less value they would have been able to get in a trade.
I disliked the trade because I think the team just needed a plan to get a very good QB then either in 2020 (if they loved one of the QB's or next year's QB class) or 2021 the GMEn would have an incredible trio. I thought it would be worth the gamble for the trio. I didn;t think they got enough considering the OBJ ceiling.
That’s how I would describe my view.
Same here. Also what they do w the 17th pick, that 3rd, and how Pepper’s plays matters. A lot
IMO this may be a good deal for both sides.
Honestly the only two things to me hat OBJ did that made me shake my head was the Boat trip and being dumb enough to let a pic be taken while he’s snorting coke. Dude. Wtf.
Makes me wonder if he’d not setting himself up to fail if I wish the kid well in general. But in a way glad he’s Cleveland’s issue. In NY everything was always going to be blown out of proportion.
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In comment 14342022 wonderback said:
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Did you feel they were detrimental to the team. If the answer is yes than he had to go. In my opinion, it was bad and was probably about to get worse which meant we'd get even less by hanging on to him longer.
Interesting angle - why do you think they were going to get worse? If they improved the o-line, which was all they ever needed to do to get the offense functioning again, you think they would have gotten worse?
I meant his behavior was about to get worse, not the team's offensive capabilities. There's a cumulative affect his type of personality has on a team. Eventually they would have had to part ways. The longer they waited, the less value they would have been able to get in a trade.
I see. I think whatever disfunction he brought to the team was a function itself of the team’s underlying dysfunction. I do disagree also about the effect of what people cite as his behavior. His teammates seem to support him 100%. I can’t say the field goal net stuff wasn’t disappointing. It was funny the first time he “made up” with it but then it jumped the shark. The little Wayne thing didn’t bother me.
Obviously OBJ turned into a mega-Super Star so I wasn't bitching too loudly over the past several years.
But at the time, I though WR ahead of Donald was a stupid ass bullshit move.
Why?
Because WRs don't carry a team, and don't usually carry a team to a championship.
Wanted Zack Martin. Still think he should have been the pick when your QB was an imobile aging QB. Donald was ok w me too.
All his antics didn’t bother me in the slightest, with one exception.
The ESPN interview that aired before the game.
An interview that threw his team, QB, and coaching staff under the bus. Inexcusable - didn’t want him in a Giants uniform from that day.
So, I am a huge fan but when you put yourself above the entire organization it’s time to go. If we let him stay we would have the Antonio Brown round 2 saga all over again. He wanted LA, well he got Cleveland.
It will be interesting to see how the Giants perform without him and how Cleveland performs with him.
also, objectively, we're really getting 4 players for obj. when you consider the probability of injury in the NFL the trade makes sense for us.
so I'm good with it.
the penalties were certainly detrimental. i hate watching a team score only to get an unsportsmanlike penalty. that's unbelievably selfish.
iirc, Shephard also did it once last year.
That’s how I would describe my view.
This covers most of it, except that not enough changed between his injury, his extension, and the trade to warrant resigning them to trade him after the season.
If they knew he was a pain in the ass, holding the team back, etc. - then they shouldn't have re-signed him. They should have traded him then (h/t Go Terps).
If they thought he was a strategic part of the piece, then a stupid interview with Lil Wayne and some missed games at the end of a lost season shouldn't have traded him and taken the cap hit.
My problem with the whole situation comes from the rumor that DG wanted him out but Mara wanted him re-signed. That's your FO not on the same page - and the GM being overruled. If that's the case, what else are they not on the same page with?
BTW - this behavior has repeated itself time and time again, dating back to TC. And there's one constant that factored the whole time. Hint - it's not Eli.
It seems like ownership overruled DG then changed their minds, trading him away for less than they could have had without a monstrous cap hit. If this situation doesn't bother you in some way, you had an agenda that was centered around something other than the Giants winning football games.
Agree
This is me as well. I am sad to see him go, but I understand the reasoning. And I really do think he lost his second gear after that injury. I'd have been very happy to keep him, I'm sad to see him go, but I completely understand the trade. Now let's just hope we come out on top of that trade.
did care about the penalties in prior years
did care about the number of leg injuries for a small guy whose game was based on explosiveness and acceleration.
half speculate one great year next year in a sugary love fest in Cleveland but then reversion to the mean. but thats pure speculation.
expect the leg injuries to lessen his game
each year going forward.
had to sign him or get a comp pick. think we sold at his peak value over the next 4 years years.
We got a better than average safety, a 1st and a 3rd and a lot of cap room in the years ahead. enough cap room for 2 good FA
over i year a loss. over 4 years likely a good gain.
cant really be analyzed at this time but im fine with it.
I believe the Giants will be better long term without him. They were not winning next year with or without him and the OBJ show would have been a distraction and hurt the rebuild.
So, yes, it may be that DG was overruled in his initial position, but an intervening event may have been instrumental. It is unfortunate that the initial decision (to re-sign OBJ) comes at such a cost, but the silver lining is that this era of top-heaviness in cap allocation is moderating and maybe near an end.
did care about the penalties in prior years
did care about the number of leg injuries for a small guy whose game was based on explosiveness and acceleration.
half speculate one great year next year in a sugary love fest in Cleveland but then reversion to the mean. but thats pure speculation.
expect the leg injuries to lessen his game
each year going forward.
had to sign him or get a comp pick. think we sold at his peak value over the next 4 years years.
We got a better than average safety, a 1st and a 3rd and a lot of cap room in the years ahead. enough cap room for 2 good FA
over i year a loss. over 4 years likely a good gain.
cant really be analyzed at this time but im fine with it.
more or less I agree with this. Except I didn't care about the prior penalties, I think he learned that lesson.
leg injuries concern me.
the growing selfishness, the fact that 6 months after signing a contract to be the highest paid WR ever, he wants more money.
potentially dogging it concerns me.
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did not care one way or another about the antics
did care about the penalties in prior years
did care about the number of leg injuries for a small guy whose game was based on explosiveness and acceleration.
half speculate one great year next year in a sugary love fest in Cleveland but then reversion to the mean. but thats pure speculation.
expect the leg injuries to lessen his game
each year going forward.
had to sign him or get a comp pick. think we sold at his peak value over the next 4 years years.
We got a better than average safety, a 1st and a 3rd and a lot of cap room in the years ahead. enough cap room for 2 good FA
over i year a loss. over 4 years likely a good gain.
cant really be analyzed at this time but im fine with it.
more or less I agree with this. Except I didn't care about the prior penalties, I think he learned that lesson.
leg injuries concern me.
the growing selfishness, the fact that 6 months after signing a contract to be the highest paid WR ever, he wants more money.
potentially dogging it concerns me.
+1
This is still going to be a defensive draft.