I'm not saying Ranaan is a genius or anything, but he must know that too, that this is or could be misinformation, and if that is the case, why would he report it? I mean, journalists - even sports journalists- are supposed to report the truth, or the truth as the team sees it at that moment in time, or at least, add a caveat that this can all change.
its not like the giants have telegraphed there picks in the past.... Â
I am hearing that Bengals are all in with Haskins....willing to trade up....hopefully with Giants....move back from 6 ton10 and get a 1st rd in 2020.....want to keep the Ohio St hero in State
Not defending Haskins, but you are going to hear a lot of "rumors" about how teams feel about draft prospects that simply are not true because:
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
While I do not disagree with you in regard to pre-draft misinformation, as it pertains to the Giants, I hearken back to last year when many were saying, myself included, that all of the Barkley talk attributed to the Giants was disinformation.
As we now know, last year's rumors about the Giants interest in Barkley were right on the money.
It could be that everything we are hearing about the Giants disinterest in Haskins is similarly true.
Not defending Haskins, but you are going to hear a lot of "rumors" about how teams feel about draft prospects that simply are not true because:
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
Agree, happens every year at this time. But one thing I have noticed, is that the team doesn't seem to be giving Haskins any love, certainly not what they are showing Murray.
Not defending Haskins, but you are going to hear a lot of "rumors" about how teams feel about draft prospects that simply are not true because:
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
While I'm with you that this is likely one of those two things, the history that we've had with the Giants does give me reason to pause.
They made it known last year that they were in love with Saquon Barkley. Who did they end up drafting?
There were Odell Beckham rumors on an almost daily basis despite nothing the Giants having said publicly linking to that and it ended up all being right in the end.
I dunno, it just seems like there's too much smoke here and the Giants are not interested in playing the misinformation game.
I think there are some flaws in Haskins' game, but I agree nothing more than a typical prospect. I've pointed out flaws before, but I never focused on them as a reason I for not drafting him.
As most of you know by now, I am an analytics guy... When you go back an look at QB picked in the 1st or 2nd round the indicators that most correlates with NFL success are
1. Number of games started with somewhere around 27 being the inflection point
2. Assuming 27+ starts, level of competition
3. Assuming 27+ starts and high level of comp, completion %
After that all other indicators fall off a cliff.
The rationale for number of games started is that the more game you have of them on film the better you can evaluate them. What's more, opposing teams have had at least a year to analyze them and come up with defenive game plans to stop them. If the prospect is able to adjust their game and take it to another level, then you really know he has something.
Level of competition, is related to game starts, but its important that you get to see and evaluate the player in stressful situations. Heavy pass rushes, better secondary players, tighter windows... Again, it allows the scout the opportunity to better evaluate the prospect.
Completion percentage is self explanatory... But it turns out, that without the game starts and level of competition, completion percentage on its own has virtually zero correlation to NFL success.
And that is the rub. Haskins may be great, or he might be like 1000 other 1 year QBs. Everybody was high on Herbert at the beginning of the year. I withheld my judgement of him for about the first 5 or 6 games. And what I saw, was a guy not adjusting to defenses, and not good at going through progressions. But we only learned this AFTER Herbert has played in about 18 or 19 games... Only having 14 games, Haskins is a HUGE risk. It's what we don't know about Haskins that scares me far more than what we do know.
With that said, we have seen 23 games from Tua, and 29 from Fromm. I am not sure why, there has been some criticism leveled at Fromm this past year, but to my eyes he has made steady progression. Completion rate is up, Td rate is up, Yards/Att is up, and interception rate is down. And watching his games, I thought he looked more confident and decisive. I also like his size, Tua is a more dynamic playmaker, but I have size concerns with him. Right now, I am firmly on the Fromm train. And I think he will be easier to get than Tua.
Murray is also a 1 year wonder so the same applies to him. Not to mention his size. Though I do think Murray is above Haskins.
Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
We need to trade with Miami draft Ford Hockenson Simmons and Polite with the first 4 and then next year trade both 1's the current and next year's 2 and maybe a 3 probably for Herbert. If we could get a haul off players like that I'd be happy waiting for a QB.
Jones at 17 would make me burst into flames
RE: I wrote this on another thread about Haskins Â
Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
I am hearing that Bengals are all in with Haskins....willing to trade up....hopefully with Giants....move back from 6 ton10 and get a 1st rd in 2020.....want to keep the Ohio St hero in State
if we can move back from 6 to 10 and get their 1st next year.. would be amazing. bengals will be bad. we will be bad. could be two top 5 picks.
Gonna lose their minds when Gettleman trades up for Kyler.
I watched his pro day and came away very impressed with his ability to flick the ball effortlessly. I wouldn't be upset if they think he's the guy. But I would have preferred to keep Odell if we are going the speedy route. With Murray, Odell, SB, SS, and EE that would have been really tough to defend all of them. Throw in the rebuilt OL and we would be cooking with gas.
Someone else on here mentioned that Tate and Shep are both great blockers which I know Shep is, so I'm wondering if they are just intending to run the doors off people and then let the QB hit possession receivers when we need 5-7 yards. Then run run run again. With Tate and Shep out in space blocking downfield. It seems like a plausible plan and Murray would certainly help in the RPO.
Haskins has slow feet and management is shell shocked from 15 years of Eli's slow feet. As we all should be. Haskins is a throw back QB in the wrong era unfortunately.
Way too much talent at other potions to even consider a qb this year. Â
Build a strong defense that can hold a lead in the 4th quarter, a strong defense that can over come a mistake by the offense, and an oline that open holes and protect Eli.
RE: Way too much talent at other potions to even consider a qb this year. Â
Build a strong defense that can hold a lead in the 4th quarter, a strong defense that can over come a mistake by the offense, and an oline that open holes and protect Eli.
Next when we’re picking 10th because we won 6 games we’ll hear how it’s too strong at WR to take a QB and just give Eli a stud WR.
RE: RE: I wrote this on another thread about Haskins Â
Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
LOL, this year they were saying there may not be any 1st round QBs, and everybody is juiced up on Haskins, Murray and Lock...
You are just making shit up to fit your narrative.
This from the front office that refuses to move on Â
People will point to these articles and say the Giants show their cards. Every year we hear this crap.
Stopped watch is right twice a day. Throw enough shit against the wall and some of just might stick. Just last month (week) everyone was saying the giants loved Haskins. Then they say they don’t love Haskins. Next week they will say they do love Haskins. Then they will say they don’t. Then the giants draft someone else and BBI will say the giants showed their cards.
RE: RE: RE: I wrote this on another thread about Haskins Â
Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
LOL, this year they were saying there may not be any 1st round QBs, and everybody is juiced up on Haskins, Murray and Lock...
You are just making shit up to fit your narrative.
Yes, totally made up just to fit my narrative.
Last years class was the first class to buck the trend. QBs - ( New Window )
Not defending Haskins, but you are going to hear a lot of "rumors" about how teams feel about draft prospects that simply are not true because:
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
While I do not disagree with you in regard to pre-draft misinformation, as it pertains to the Giants, I hearken back to last year when many were saying, myself included, that all of the Barkley talk attributed to the Giants was disinformation.
As we now know, last year's rumors about the Giants interest in Barkley were right on the money.
It could be that everything we are hearing about the Giants disinterest in Haskins is similarly true.
Nope. People just speculated accurately that the giants were going to draft Barkley. Most talented player to come along in a decade and he was going to be there at 2. That’s some stellar journalism there. The giants didn’t tell anyone that they were drafting Barkley. People just connected the dots.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
LOL, this year they were saying there may not be any 1st round QBs, and everybody is juiced up on Haskins, Murray and Lock...
You are just making shit up to fit your narrative.
Yes, totally made up just to fit my narrative.
Last years class was the first class to buck the trend. QBs - ( New Window ) [/quote]
You are a piece of work ajr...
Ok so you post an article looking back in hindsight. It doesn't say that the QBs didn't come off the board in the first round. It just says they stunk.
All its really saying is that people over value QBs every year and draft them too high. QBs like Haskins and Murray...
Thank you for making my point.
RE: RE: I wrote this on another thread about Haskins Â
Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better than the crop we’re talking about this year. Do we expect them all to just vanish by next year’s draft. Like the Leftovers?
RE: RE: RE: I wrote this on another thread about Haskins Â
Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better than the crop we’re talking about this year. Do we expect them all to just vanish by next year’s draft. Like the Leftovers?
They’re all better? Eason hasn’t played in two years. Patterson hasn’t proven anything. Fromm right now isn’t better than Haskins or Murray. Costello isn’t better than Haskins right now either.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I wrote this on another thread about Haskins Â
Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better than the crop we’re talking about this year. Do we expect them all to just vanish by next year’s draft. Like the Leftovers?
They’re all better? Eason hasn’t played in two years. Patterson hasn’t proven anything. Fromm right now isn’t better than Haskins or Murray. Costello isn’t better than Haskins right now either.
Yes, overall next year's class looks better, but that doesnt mean every prospect next year is better than this year.
I think the weaknesses in Haskins and Murray are bring overblown in much the same way you all dissected last years QBs. (Not many of you gave Mayfield a snowball's chance)
I've also noticed that the overall opinion of Herbert on BBI wasn't that good when you thought he was am option this year. I was repeatedly told that he wasn't NFL ready, now all of a sudden he is already better than every QB this year because he is part of the magical 2020 class. Did he transfer to a program that runs a pro offense or something? What did I miss?
Basically a lot of you are throwing bullshit around to fit your chosen narrative.
I've also noticed that the overall opinion of Herbert on BBI wasn't that good when you thought he was am option this year. I was repeatedly told that he wasn't NFL ready, now all of a sudden he is already better than every QB this year because he is part of the magical 2020 class. Did he transfer to a program that runs a pro offense or something? What did I miss?
Amen.
I think QB is a Lock for the Giants in this draft! Â
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Yes, overall next year's class looks better, but that doesnt mean every prospect next year is better than this year.
I think the weaknesses in Haskins and Murray are bring overblown in much the same way you all dissected last years QBs. (Not many of you gave Mayfield a snowball's chance)
I've also noticed that the overall opinion of Herbert on BBI wasn't that good when you thought he was am option this year. I was repeatedly told that he wasn't NFL ready, now all of a sudden he is already better than every QB this year because he is part of the magical 2020 class. Did he transfer to a program that runs a pro offense or something? What did I miss?
Basically a lot of you are throwing bullshit around to fit your chosen narrative.
Could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that Herbert was ranked ahead of Haskins before he decided to return to school.
Regardless, taking any old qb just because of need or perceived need regardless of immediacy of the need could set you back a lot. We need to approach this with wisdom. We need a qb but we need the right qb. Which brings us to 2020 imo
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Quote:
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Quote:
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better
is it me or weren't people lukewarm on this guy before he decided not to come out? I seem to recall a lot the "really weak QB crop" stuff while he was still in the mix.
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Quote:
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better
Yes, overall next year's class looks better, but that doesnt mean every prospect next year is better than this year.
I think the weaknesses in Haskins and Murray are bring overblown in much the same way you all dissected last years QBs. (Not many of you gave Mayfield a snowball's chance)
I've also noticed that the overall opinion of Herbert on BBI wasn't that good when you thought he was am option this year. I was repeatedly told that he wasn't NFL ready, now all of a sudden he is already better than every QB this year because he is part of the magical 2020 class. Did he transfer to a program that runs a pro offense or something? What did I miss?
Basically a lot of you are throwing bullshit around to fit your chosen narrative.
If you read my take on Herbert, I am not high on him at all... I think I made it pretty clear in my first post on this thread. That said, Herbert was considered the #1 QB prospect coming out this year. What does that say about the rest of this years QBs!
Don't conflate hyping next years crop with simply being thoroughly unimpressed with this year's crop.
Tua and Fromm are studs, there are interesting prospects after them. Willing to wait a year to see, I was just pointing out that next years crop goes beyond the 3 everybody speaks about.
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Quote:
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better
Moron...
Read MY post again
Quote:
2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Quote:
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better
Moron...
Read MY post again
Quote:
2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
And your post was not the one I responded to when I questioned “all of them being better” and named which ones weren’t. Moron.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Then why is MCL taking claim
Liar, you thought you were responding to me
No I responded to Bills post claiming they were all better.
You claimed I was making shit up that you said and I assumed it was Bill responding to my post. You’re the one who attacked me about making stuff up that you said and thought I was responding to your post.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Then why is MCL taking claim
Liar, you thought you were responding to me
No I responded to Bills post claiming they were all better.
You claimed I was making shit up that you said and I assumed it was Bill responding to my post. You’re the one who attacked me about making stuff up that you said and thought I was responding to your post.
You are the one who said I laid CLAIM to ALL!!!
Again you are making it up as you go...
I responded to this, which is just making shit up to fit your narrative
Quote:
Eason hasn’t played in two years. Patterson hasn’t proven anything. Fromm right now isn’t better than Haskins or Murray. Costello isn’t better than Haskins right now either.
I responded to Bill’s, your post just happened to be quoted above it.
Quote:
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better than the crop we’re talking about this year. Do we expect them all to just vanish by next year’s draft. Like the Leftovers?
They’re all better? Eason hasn’t played in two years. Patterson hasn’t proven anything. Fromm right now isn’t better than Haskins or Murray. Costello isn’t better than Haskins right now either.
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Quote:
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better
And here is more proof you thought that I said ALL
Give it up ajr, you are on the wrong side of the hyperbole train here.
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Here is my post... The stop making shit up applies to everything I said in this post. WHether or not you read it that way, I certainly meant it that way.
From the team with the role model for all slow footed slow reacting immobile QBs
That turned 30 before learning to slide or not fumble when attempting to slide !
RE: this would mean they wont trade for Rosen either Â
I've seen that narrative on him too. However when you watch the highlight tape on him from last year he has multiple scrambles on it including a 35 yarder. Eli has barely ran for 35 yds in his career
In any event, it does feel a bit like they may not QB at 6.
As if the Giants are going to tell anyone how they feel about a player?
So, is it misdirection or truth? No matter what it is, you really can’t write it in stone.
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
Hope this is true.
And it makes sense. Our HC wants a more mobile QB.
Hope this is true.
And it makes sense. Our HC wants a more mobile QB.
Seriously....
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=580431
I know Haskins isn't that popular on BBI but my unscientific read of the non-BBI Giants fans I know is that they want Haskins.
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
This.
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
While I do not disagree with you in regard to pre-draft misinformation, as it pertains to the Giants, I hearken back to last year when many were saying, myself included, that all of the Barkley talk attributed to the Giants was disinformation.
As we now know, last year's rumors about the Giants interest in Barkley were right on the money.
It could be that everything we are hearing about the Giants disinterest in Haskins is similarly true.
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
While I'm with you that this is likely one of those two things, the history that we've had with the Giants does give me reason to pause.
They made it known last year that they were in love with Saquon Barkley. Who did they end up drafting?
There were Odell Beckham rumors on an almost daily basis despite nothing the Giants having said publicly linking to that and it ended up all being right in the end.
I dunno, it just seems like there's too much smoke here and the Giants are not interested in playing the misinformation game.
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
All warfare is based on deception.
I think there are some flaws in Haskins' game, but I agree nothing more than a typical prospect. I've pointed out flaws before, but I never focused on them as a reason I for not drafting him.
As most of you know by now, I am an analytics guy... When you go back an look at QB picked in the 1st or 2nd round the indicators that most correlates with NFL success are
1. Number of games started with somewhere around 27 being the inflection point
2. Assuming 27+ starts, level of competition
3. Assuming 27+ starts and high level of comp, completion %
After that all other indicators fall off a cliff.
The rationale for number of games started is that the more game you have of them on film the better you can evaluate them. What's more, opposing teams have had at least a year to analyze them and come up with defenive game plans to stop them. If the prospect is able to adjust their game and take it to another level, then you really know he has something.
Level of competition, is related to game starts, but its important that you get to see and evaluate the player in stressful situations. Heavy pass rushes, better secondary players, tighter windows... Again, it allows the scout the opportunity to better evaluate the prospect.
Completion percentage is self explanatory... But it turns out, that without the game starts and level of competition, completion percentage on its own has virtually zero correlation to NFL success.
And that is the rub. Haskins may be great, or he might be like 1000 other 1 year QBs. Everybody was high on Herbert at the beginning of the year. I withheld my judgement of him for about the first 5 or 6 games. And what I saw, was a guy not adjusting to defenses, and not good at going through progressions. But we only learned this AFTER Herbert has played in about 18 or 19 games... Only having 14 games, Haskins is a HUGE risk. It's what we don't know about Haskins that scares me far more than what we do know.
With that said, we have seen 23 games from Tua, and 29 from Fromm. I am not sure why, there has been some criticism leveled at Fromm this past year, but to my eyes he has made steady progression. Completion rate is up, Td rate is up, Yards/Att is up, and interception rate is down. And watching his games, I thought he looked more confident and decisive. I also like his size, Tua is a more dynamic playmaker, but I have size concerns with him. Right now, I am firmly on the Fromm train. And I think he will be easier to get than Tua.
Murray is also a 1 year wonder so the same applies to him. Not to mention his size. Though I do think Murray is above Haskins.
Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
Regarding #2, while I agree in theory...
Can anyone remember a specific example of the Giants putting out misinformation about a player to try to hide their interest in that player?
I'm not saying that it hasn't happened, but I can't recall an actual case.
Quote:
Not defending Haskins, but you are going to hear a lot of "rumors" about how teams feel about draft prospects that simply are not true because:
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
All warfare is based on deception.
Sun Tzu.
Also closely associated with Napoleon’s “war is 90% information”
It’s lying season. But I for one am not in love with Haskins...yet
Nice pull Marty!
Hope this is true.
And it makes sense. Our HC wants a more mobile QB.
Amen. Haskins is not the answer, at least not the first round.
Jones at 17 would make me burst into flames
Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
if we can move back from 6 to 10 and get their 1st next year.. would be amazing. bengals will be bad. we will be bad. could be two top 5 picks.
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
Eric I’d agree but we are talking about the giants. They don’t know how to play that game.
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
#2 is right where my mind went.
I watched his pro day and came away very impressed with his ability to flick the ball effortlessly. I wouldn't be upset if they think he's the guy. But I would have preferred to keep Odell if we are going the speedy route. With Murray, Odell, SB, SS, and EE that would have been really tough to defend all of them. Throw in the rebuilt OL and we would be cooking with gas.
Someone else on here mentioned that Tate and Shep are both great blockers which I know Shep is, so I'm wondering if they are just intending to run the doors off people and then let the QB hit possession receivers when we need 5-7 yards. Then run run run again. With Tate and Shep out in space blocking downfield. It seems like a plausible plan and Murray would certainly help in the RPO.
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Not defending Haskins, but you are going to hear a lot of "rumors" about how teams feel about draft prospects that simply are not true because:
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
Eric I’d agree but we are talking about the giants. They don’t know how to play that game.
They told everyone they weren't trading OBJ and then they did. So what you said isn't true.
Next when we’re picking 10th because we won 6 games we’ll hear how it’s too strong at WR to take a QB and just give Eli a stud WR.
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Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
LOL, this year they were saying there may not be any 1st round QBs, and everybody is juiced up on Haskins, Murray and Lock...
You are just making shit up to fit your narrative.
Stopped watch is right twice a day. Throw enough shit against the wall and some of just might stick. Just last month (week) everyone was saying the giants loved Haskins. Then they say they don’t love Haskins. Next week they will say they do love Haskins. Then they will say they don’t. Then the giants draft someone else and BBI will say the giants showed their cards.
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Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
LOL, this year they were saying there may not be any 1st round QBs, and everybody is juiced up on Haskins, Murray and Lock...
You are just making shit up to fit your narrative.
Yes, totally made up just to fit my narrative.
Last years class was the first class to buck the trend.
QBs - ( New Window )
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Not defending Haskins, but you are going to hear a lot of "rumors" about how teams feel about draft prospects that simply are not true because:
(1) They don't know shit, but they want you to think they do.
or
(2) Teams are putting out misinformation
While I do not disagree with you in regard to pre-draft misinformation, as it pertains to the Giants, I hearken back to last year when many were saying, myself included, that all of the Barkley talk attributed to the Giants was disinformation.
As we now know, last year's rumors about the Giants interest in Barkley were right on the money.
It could be that everything we are hearing about the Giants disinterest in Haskins is similarly true.
Nope. People just speculated accurately that the giants were going to draft Barkley. Most talented player to come along in a decade and he was going to be there at 2. That’s some stellar journalism there. The giants didn’t tell anyone that they were drafting Barkley. People just connected the dots.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
LOL, this year they were saying there may not be any 1st round QBs, and everybody is juiced up on Haskins, Murray and Lock...
You are just making shit up to fit your narrative.
Yes, totally made up just to fit my narrative.
Last years class was the first class to buck the trend. QBs - ( New Window ) [/quote]
You are a piece of work ajr...
Ok so you post an article looking back in hindsight. It doesn't say that the QBs didn't come off the board in the first round. It just says they stunk.
All its really saying is that people over value QBs every year and draft them too high. QBs like Haskins and Murray...
Thank you for making my point.
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Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better than the crop we’re talking about this year. Do we expect them all to just vanish by next year’s draft. Like the Leftovers?
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Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better than the crop we’re talking about this year. Do we expect them all to just vanish by next year’s draft. Like the Leftovers?
They’re all better? Eason hasn’t played in two years. Patterson hasn’t proven anything. Fromm right now isn’t better than Haskins or Murray. Costello isn’t better than Haskins right now either.
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In comment 14342354 ajr2456 said:
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Also for 2020 everybody is fixated on Tua, Herbert and Fromm. But 2020 is not just them. There is
K.J. Costello, Shea Patterson and possibly Jacob Eason (though I think he needs another year and a really good one). Not to mention that there are 3 or 4 other QBs who have a chance to move up into 1st round grades. There are some who are predicting as many as 7 QBs will come off the board in the 1st round. 2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
This happens every draft cycle though. Every year we hear “next year there will be x amount of QBs going round 1” and the number always ends up lower.
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better than the crop we’re talking about this year. Do we expect them all to just vanish by next year’s draft. Like the Leftovers?
They’re all better? Eason hasn’t played in two years. Patterson hasn’t proven anything. Fromm right now isn’t better than Haskins or Murray. Costello isn’t better than Haskins right now either.
The 2020 narrative is getting tiring.
Yes, overall next year's class looks better, but that doesnt mean every prospect next year is better than this year.
I think the weaknesses in Haskins and Murray are bring overblown in much the same way you all dissected last years QBs. (Not many of you gave Mayfield a snowball's chance)
I've also noticed that the overall opinion of Herbert on BBI wasn't that good when you thought he was am option this year. I was repeatedly told that he wasn't NFL ready, now all of a sudden he is already better than every QB this year because he is part of the magical 2020 class. Did he transfer to a program that runs a pro offense or something? What did I miss?
Basically a lot of you are throwing bullshit around to fit your chosen narrative.
I've also noticed that the overall opinion of Herbert on BBI wasn't that good when you thought he was am option this year. I was repeatedly told that he wasn't NFL ready, now all of a sudden he is already better than every QB this year because he is part of the magical 2020 class. Did he transfer to a program that runs a pro offense or something? What did I miss?
Amen.
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Yes, overall next year's class looks better, but that doesnt mean every prospect next year is better than this year.
I think the weaknesses in Haskins and Murray are bring overblown in much the same way you all dissected last years QBs. (Not many of you gave Mayfield a snowball's chance)
I've also noticed that the overall opinion of Herbert on BBI wasn't that good when you thought he was am option this year. I was repeatedly told that he wasn't NFL ready, now all of a sudden he is already better than every QB this year because he is part of the magical 2020 class. Did he transfer to a program that runs a pro offense or something? What did I miss?
Basically a lot of you are throwing bullshit around to fit your chosen narrative.
Could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that Herbert was ranked ahead of Haskins before he decided to return to school.
Regardless, taking any old qb just because of need or perceived need regardless of immediacy of the need could set you back a lot. We need to approach this with wisdom. We need a qb but we need the right qb. Which brings us to 2020 imo
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
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MOST
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
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And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better
That was my post
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In comment 14342467 .McL. said:
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MOST
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
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And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better
That was my post
Then why is MCL taking claim
Yes, overall next year's class looks better, but that doesnt mean every prospect next year is better than this year.
I think the weaknesses in Haskins and Murray are bring overblown in much the same way you all dissected last years QBs. (Not many of you gave Mayfield a snowball's chance)
I've also noticed that the overall opinion of Herbert on BBI wasn't that good when you thought he was am option this year. I was repeatedly told that he wasn't NFL ready, now all of a sudden he is already better than every QB this year because he is part of the magical 2020 class. Did he transfer to a program that runs a pro offense or something? What did I miss?
Basically a lot of you are throwing bullshit around to fit your chosen narrative.
If you read my take on Herbert, I am not high on him at all... I think I made it pretty clear in my first post on this thread. That said, Herbert was considered the #1 QB prospect coming out this year. What does that say about the rest of this years QBs!
Don't conflate hyping next years crop with simply being thoroughly unimpressed with this year's crop.
Tua and Fromm are studs, there are interesting prospects after them. Willing to wait a year to see, I was just pointing out that next years crop goes beyond the 3 everybody speaks about.
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MOST
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
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And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better
Moron...
Read MY post again
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In comment 14342467 .McL. said:
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MOST
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Quote:
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better
Moron...
Read MY post again
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2020 is crazy stacked with QBs and most of them better than this years crop.
And your post was not the one I responded to when I questioned “all of them being better” and named which ones weren’t. Moron.
In comment 14342474 ajr2456 said:
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Then why is MCL taking claim
Liar, you thought you were responding to me
Quote:
In comment 14342475 Bill L said:
In comment 14342474 ajr2456 said:
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Then why is MCL taking claim
Liar, you thought you were responding to me
No I responded to Bills post claiming they were all better.
You claimed I was making shit up that you said and I assumed it was Bill responding to my post. You’re the one who attacked me about making stuff up that you said and thought I was responding to your post.
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In comment 14342485 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14342475 Bill L said:
In comment 14342474 ajr2456 said:
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Then why is MCL taking claim
Liar, you thought you were responding to me
No I responded to Bills post claiming they were all better.
You claimed I was making shit up that you said and I assumed it was Bill responding to my post. You’re the one who attacked me about making stuff up that you said and thought I was responding to your post.
You are the one who said I laid CLAIM to ALL!!!
Again you are making it up as you go...
I responded to this, which is just making shit up to fit your narrative
They’re all better? Eason hasn’t played in two years. Patterson hasn’t proven anything. Fromm right now isn’t better than Haskins or Murray. Costello isn’t better than Haskins right now either.
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MOST
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Read your post again. You said ALL. Who is making themselves look foolish?
Quote:
And yet, all of those guys that he mentioned are *already* better
And here is more proof you thought that I said ALL
Give it up ajr, you are on the wrong side of the hyperbole train here.
You accused me of making shit up saying you said all.
You accused me of making shit up saying you said all.
The making shit up applied to your take on Fromm as well
You accused me of making shit up saying you said all.
The making shit up applied to your take on Fromm as well
Quote:
Responding to my post.
You accused me of making shit up saying you said all.
The making shit up applied to your take on Fromm as well
That’s not what you meant but sure.
Stop making shit up...
I said Eason needs another good year, I think he will come out in 2021 since he is ineligible this year.
And yes, I would take Shea Patterson over Haskins and Murray at this point.
Fromm, are you kidding me, you don't think Fromm is a stud.
Holy crap, now are really making yourself look foolish.
Here is my post... The stop making shit up applies to everything I said in this post. WHether or not you read it that way, I certainly meant it that way.
That turned 30 before learning to slide or not fumble when attempting to slide !
I've seen that narrative on him too. However when you watch the highlight tape on him from last year he has multiple scrambles on it including a 35 yarder. Eli has barely ran for 35 yds in his career
Fucking end it already. Acting like a GD second grader hijacking a thread.