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An offensive line has to have cohesion, and adding pieces

plato : 3/16/2019 5:37 pm
does not mean the “o” line will be a cohesive unit. this takes time learning to work with each other, with the running backs, and the passing game. The giants started to get better after the break not just because brown added something good, but the line was more cohesive and was used to working with SB.

The contract with the union limits practice and contact (physical and otherwise) which makes cohesion harder to obtain except over years.

My point is for the giants just adding a RT will just make for three new instead of 2 new players. It will take some time for zeitler and Pio to learn to work together and Pio rather than Pulley may be more physically talented but he will need to work into the line with a new guard on his right.

I don’t know how we get a talented line that is cohesive and that can work with our rbs this season. it seems we need talent and time, when we don’t have either, for the line to come out of the gate in September really ready to help the offense win.
you still need adequate individual skill  
SHO'NUFF : 3/16/2019 5:40 pm : link
otherwise tackles wouldn't be drafted so high. And for god's sake, learn to block a stunt with the guy next to you.
The Vets usually adapt seamlessly.  
Big Blue '56 : 3/16/2019 5:42 pm : link
Others? Remains to be seen
Communication is key  
Jay on the Island : 3/16/2019 5:43 pm : link
If they bring in a veteran like Remmers for RT then that shouldn't be a problem at all with all the experience on the offensive line. Solder and Hernandez were together all season. Halapio was the center for the entire offseason and preseason. Zeitler is a great player and he will be an asset if the Giants decide to add their starting RT in the draft. A young player can benefit greatly from having an experienced veteran next to him especially one as talented as Zeitler.
RE: The Vets usually adapt seamlessly.  
Jay on the Island : 3/16/2019 5:44 pm : link
In comment 14342395 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Others? Remains to be seen

Last season the redskins signed two veteran offensive linemen the week before a game and they both started the next game and played relatively well.
agree, but my point is adding a high round draft choice at RT will  
plato : 3/16/2019 5:48 pm : link
take some time to help, and the jury is out on Pio as a center both physically and how well he calls blocking schemes.

Hard to be optimistic with a plug n play line. We’ll see in preseason and September. I tend to be on the pessimistic side.
Playing as a cohesive unit is an excuse Reese would give for  
robbieballs2003 : 3/16/2019 5:57 pm : link
striking out on the OL. Yes, it is important but if the guys put the time in it doesn't take that much time to work out. It is more about the guys wanting to get it done as opposed to waiting until there are mistakes to correct. Something as simple as eating lunch or dinner together is important because all that extra time is needed with limited practice time. You need guys that live and breathe it.
Point already made, if they can't land a decent vet FA  
BlueLou'sBack : 3/16/2019 6:06 pm : link
RT, having Zeitler at RG is literally one of the best possible scenarios for a talented rookie RT to step into.

I would think they'll still land some level of vet and a high draft slot rookie to battle for minutes in 2019.
The thing that strikes me about Zeitler  
Johnny5 : 3/16/2019 6:07 pm : link
Really good at picking up stunts as pointed out in the breakdown by Banks and Papa. That is GIGANTIC. It has been a HUGE issue for this offense. Brown was better, but still not great. Zeitler is really good and we now have two REALLY strong guards. That is a HUGE boost to our OL.
RE: The thing that strikes me about Zeitler  
Pan-handler : 3/16/2019 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14342437 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Really good at picking up stunts as pointed out in the breakdown by Banks and Papa. That is GIGANTIC. It has been a HUGE issue for this offense. Brown was better, but still not great. Zeitler is really good and we now have two REALLY strong guards. That is a HUGE boost to our OL.


For a 39 yo QB that is GIGANTIC.
- = +  
Gruber : 3/16/2019 6:40 pm : link
It got better when we got rid of Ereck Flowers and Patrick Omameh.
Addition by subtraction.
RE: The Vets usually adapt seamlessly.  
christian : 3/16/2019 7:04 pm : link
In comment 14342395 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Others? Remains to be seen


I tend to agree, but it was striking how slowly Solder came along.

There was plenty of ink on getting comfortable with Hernandez and also getting used to the depth Manning liked in a pocket.

I won't be surprised if with 3/5 potentially new lineman and several new receivers, the pass protection and timing doesn't take half a season to develop.
Flowers had years to become cohesive  
since1925 : 3/16/2019 7:19 pm : link
Years to build chemistry.

When you suck, you suck, he sucked. We need players that don't suck.
We'll have a good line by game 4  
VinegarPeppers : 3/16/2019 7:34 pm : link
If we add a decent RT, and with our new RT added to Pio, Hernandez and Solder, we will have them firing on all cylinders by game 4. They might even be good earlier.

Solder and Hernandez were great down the stretch and I would blame the inexperience of a rookie combined with a LT getting used to a new system and suffering from the substandard of a learning RG for the early problems. But the BIGGEST problem was the right side and center where Eli was unable to step up into the pocket which meant Solders guy was literally backed down into Eli on a regular basis. By mid season Eli was stepping up and Solder was guiding the DE right by and out of the play for the most part.

IF we can get a RT I think we can have a really solid line, one good enough to take us to the big dance. But they need the supporting cast of a defense.
Ok. You got me. Who is Pio?  
idiotsavant : 3/16/2019 7:48 pm : link
.
Cohesion will develop more quickly if the starters are set early  
Ivan15 : 3/16/2019 7:58 pm : link
Unlike last year when there was preseason competition at Center, and uncertainty at both guard spots and at right tackle.
RE: Ok. You got me. Who is Pio?  
flycatcher : 3/16/2019 7:59 pm : link
In comment 14342562 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
.

Hala Pio. I didn't get it at first either.
Ordinarily, competition is good, but not this year.  
Ivan15 : 3/16/2019 8:00 pm : link
.
RE: Playing as a cohesive unit is an excuse Reese would give for  
GiantGrit : 3/16/2019 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14342421 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
striking out on the OL. Yes, it is important but if the guys put the time in it doesn't take that much time to work out. It is more about the guys wanting to get it done as opposed to waiting until there are mistakes to correct. Something as simple as eating lunch or dinner together is important because all that extra time is needed with limited practice time. You need guys that live and breathe it.


Hanging out is important but lets not kid ourselves it absolutely takes time to gel, especially with the coordinators who stunt and throw crazy blitzes at guys.
Imho if one fishes in the guards  
idiotsavant : 3/16/2019 8:10 pm : link
Smart enough ones, shorter ones, heavy ones, good fundamentals, fairly quick start.

One can find center projects.

5th round.
RE: RE: The thing that strikes me about Zeitler  
Diver_Down : 3/16/2019 8:13 pm : link
In comment 14342442 Pan-handler said:
Quote:
In comment 14342437 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


Really good at picking up stunts as pointed out in the breakdown by Banks and Papa. That is GIGANTIC. It has been a HUGE issue for this offense. Brown was better, but still not great. Zeitler is really good and we now have two REALLY strong guards. That is a HUGE boost to our OL.



For a 39 yo QB that is GIGANTIC.


He is 38.
In general I agree with the OP  
.McL. : 3/16/2019 9:41 pm : link
you need talent and time, and i agree that part of the improvement in the line over the season was time together.

But the improvement was going from historically bad to just simply bad.

We need more than that on the line.

Vets will take less time, but even with vets the more time they have together the better they will perform. I think even if the Giants get a vet RT, the line will take some time to come together. Expect some bumps in the first 4 - 6 games.
So we should stick with terrible OLs  
BillT : 3/16/2019 9:44 pm : link
And wait for them to become cohesive?
RE: So we should stick with terrible OLs  
.McL. : 3/16/2019 9:49 pm : link
In comment 14342678 BillT said:
Quote:
And wait for them to become cohesive?

I hope that's not what people take away from my post...

We need better talent for sure, both RT and C... But even after they arrive, expect some bumps. That was what I was intending as the take away.
What we need is OL  
Leg of Theismann : 3/16/2019 10:55 pm : link
Who even know what a simple ET or TE stunt is. It didn’t appear that Omameh and Flowers has ever seen a stunt before. Zietler isn’t necessarily great specifically at picking up stunts, he’s just a good guard and knows what a stunt is so it appears to you that he’s great at it. I get the sense that even just seeing guys execute OL basics is going to look like pro bowl play to us after watching the pee wee -level OL play we’ve seen the past few years.

Another thing: why does Hal Hunter still have a job? Why did he not get any of the blame for failing teach these idiots how to pick up a simple stunt?
There is no doubt,  
Doomster : 3/16/2019 10:57 pm : link
that this OL, with new players, will take time to develop....

And yes, Free Agents would assimilate faster than rookies would, i.e., look how long it took Hernandez..... almost half a season before the mistakes dwindled....

But is this a team that's going somewhere this year? No, so, get a RT from the draft.....let this OL grow together....it will be better the second half than the first....Rome was not built in a day....OL's are not built in a year....I know, I know, Minnesota did it in one year....how did they do the next year?

How Reese could f*ck up this process of creating an OL in front of Eli, is a question professors will be asking their students years from now.....but only if they are Giant fans....
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