I am not opposed to Rosen like some are. For the right price (end of 3rd round would be no brainer...early 2nd it’s close). Obviously some of this is outside the Giants control. It is difficult to know what the Cardinals are going to do. Everyone assumes they are drafting Murray, but if they were so sure, they might have moved on trading Rosen when other teams were still looking for a QB (Flacco was traded to Denver, Redskins traded for Keenum...although this doesn’t take them out of it). Additionally, Kingsbury was hired prior to people even knowing that Murray was playing football. He was hired specifically to get the most out of Josh Rosen. The Cardinals traded up for Rosen. They traded an additional 3rd and 5th to move up from 15 to 10. You have to question their own willingness to throw away what they just spent.
It is possible that the Cardinals are weighing their options and a good offer for the 1st pick would allow them to trade the Murry pick and continue Thor build around Rosen plan that they started just a few months ago.
If this is the case, the Giants should make a move. It sucks giving up draft picks. As fans we hate it because most of us love watching the draft and the more your team is involved in it the more fun it is. However, a few years from now most of the picks we don’t want to trade will likely be forgotten. It is easy to forget how many picks (even 1st rounders) becomes JAGs. In addition, if you look at the teams that have traded up for QBs in recent years, most have had very good subsequent success. Bears, Rams, Eagles, Texans, and Chiefs have all made the playoffs with a 2nd year signal caller. All gave up significant draft picks. The savings in QB money that can be used on free agents is as valuable as draft picks...sometimes more.
This year the Giants have the draft capital to trade...Next year the Giants have the cap space to spend. It is fun to speculate that we can rebuild the entire from 7 and o-line in this draft thus settling up our team for next years rookie QB, but that has many pitfalls. For 1, the odds on hitting all these picks is low...it just doesn’t happen. 2. Next years QB landscape can change...and we could be in a worse position to trade up thus needing to use even more draft capital. Plus a rookie QB year is typically a lost year for a franchise. So we would need to sign a 1 year stop gap or start a rookie. Not exactly the perfect environment to spend our free agency money.
So the real question may then be. Do the Giants like Murray? I will leave that to the insiders (JonC etc..). They sure sent a lot of high level people to his pro day. Our O-line coach was in Wisconsin that day, but our QB guru’s were all in Oklahoma. Head coach, Offensive coordinator/QB coach, our head of scouting, and our VP of player personnel. Obviously there was the long meeting afterwards as well that led to Murray being late to the press conference. These do not seem like the actions of a disinterested team.
Murray was the best high school QB perhaps ever (dtatiscitallyand winning wise)...he then had arguable one of the greatest college season ever and won the heisman (ina year that Tua was supposed to win). I feel like he can continue his success in the pros. Just my opinion. I know a lot of these thoughts have been echoed in other threads, but I figured it was a slow Sunday...why not one more :)
Fans put their own value on "draft capital" and assume it to be fact.
RG3 was ruined by mike shannahan. why does everyone forget that?
Kyler is a much better pocket passer than RG3 anyway
We have a roster deficient in so many areas and with poor depth.
Didn't Gettleman or his guru Acorsi say this, that "you have to really be in love with a quarterback to take him." Especially as a first rounder. Maybe that's what is being evaluated by the organisation right now: Murray is exciting, do we really love him as our QB?
We have a roster deficient in so many areas and with poor depth.
^This.
Or Russell Wilson, so no moving on so fast
So let's actually just build the foundation of the team this year.
Then let's get a QB next year.
The Giants don’t have the capital. They have an extra first and a ton of holes to fill. It will cost a fortune to move up to #1.
I don’t want Murray either. In addition to the physical concerns, he will have baseball in the back of his head. Any time something doesn’t go right for him with football, he will be dreaming about getting back with his ex.
Too many concerns to be giving up that much.
The plan you put forward is wise. Spend our draft capital this year to get the QB and complete the rebuild with the cap space we have next year.
If the Giants wait to go QB until next year, they will deplete their draft capital for a few years and need to take some cap space on bring in a vet QB. Bradford, McCown, McCarron were all signed by Cards, Jets and bills before drafting QBs high and they cost 10-15 mil a year. The Browns traded for Tyron Taylor with a 3rd rounder.
The Giants should trade 6pick, the 2019 second round draft pick and next years 1st round draft pick to acquire the #1 pick and draft Kyler Murray if the Cards are a willing partner.
They can still use the 17 pick on defense and we will still have a plethora of late round picks as well.
Murray sits this year until Giants eliminated and then takes over. Eli finishes out his contract and you can clear his cap space next year.
If the Cards want Murray, they’re going to take him. If they don’t, then what’s the point of the Giants fleecing themselves for the number one pick? Why not wait and jump OAK for less?
The idea of waiting until 2020 and thinking you're going to get a QB you want is a fantasy.
He's not only significantly undersized for football, he's also a liar. He signed to play baseball for the As, then backed out. There is a very good chance that he will use his baseball abilities as a negotiating wedge somewhere down the road, especially since he shows every sign of being a prima donna (wouldn't allow himself to be measured, acts like he's better than everyone else, etc.)
My best guess is that he is out of the league in less than five years, a major fail for any team that drafts him.
He absolutely makes them a better team
RG3 was a one year wonder for reasons that don’t affect every athletic qb. One has little to do with the other. For every RG3 there’s a russel Wilson or mahomes. RG3 also wasn’t the most cerebral of qbs. He got by on athletic ability alone. That shit catches up to every qb.
No one wants defensive talent out of this draft more than I do but I’d trade up for Murray if he fit what I was looking for. He’s got a terrific skill set.
But if you go with 6 DBs, you will get a heavy dose of Barkley and good luck bringing him down with DBs.
So, to me, it's not just Murray but Murray in combo with Barkley. Murray will be a lot better playing with Barkley because of the way their skill sets complement each other.
Didn't you hear? The world is going to end in 12 years. So no need to worry about finding a 15 year starter like Eli.
I can't figure it out.
Is it the Heisman? The statistics? The stuff you see on the stat pages?
Because from a football player standpoint, I don't really see much resemblance.
First, the size and build of the players are totally different. Griffin was like 5" taller than Murray.
Griffin came from a Baylor team that basically ran a run and shoot tempo offense designed to put up points and yardage in bunches. I don't think he really ever established himself as a guy who could stand back in the pocket, survey the field, cycle through his progressions, and make throws at each level. It was more like backyard ball with Briles.
His arm strength wasn't really an issue - but I never saw Griffin as a guy who displayed much polish as a passer.
He had a heck of a rookie year in the NFL - but he was basically a 1 read guy, and what they were doing with him was never going to be sustainable.
Murray is different. Better passer, and a guy who I think can be as good a passer as someone like Russell Wilson.
But - that supposes he stays on the field. The durability is certainly a fair concern.
I just don't see the similarities with Murray and Griffin, though.
You'll still need to implement some spread concepts to maximize Murray - but you can also run pro style dropback concepts with him and have him sit back in the pocket making a few reads and throwing set. That's the key. I never felt like you could win with Griffin unless his legs were part of the offense.
There's a difference between dual-threat guys who need to use their legs... basically what Lamar Jackson just was w/ Baltimore as a rookie... and then guys who can move around, but mostly do it to extend a play and let their WR's shake loose or gain yards when they're free and there's a lot of space between levels. I.e.. Wilson.
Murray can/should be more of the latter, whereas RG3 was more of the former.
I don't see Murray winding up here in NY. But I don't think it's fair to compare him to RG3 - that's not his game and it's a weak comp.
Murray is different. Better passer, and a guy who I think can be as good a passer as someone like Russell Wilson.
But - that supposes he stays on the field. The durability is certainly a fair concern.
As I passed on last week after hearing Weis on Sirius, Murray, Weis believes, can avoid injury the way Russell has, by not taking hits, knowing when to go OOB and how soon to slide. FWIW
Much better passer than Vick
Quote:
Murray is different. Better passer, and a guy who I think can be as good a passer as someone like Russell Wilson.
But - that supposes he stays on the field. The durability is certainly a fair concern.
As I passed on last week after hearing Weis on Sirius, Murray, Weis believes, can avoid injury the way Russell has, by not taking hits, knowing when to go OOB and how soon to slide. FWIW
I could see it. Murray is definitely more a Russell Wilson mold than an RG3/Mike Vick mold. The latter are just really lazy comparisons, in my opinion.
Murray is more refined as a passer at this stage than Vick was.
Vick is another guy that I don't see the parallels to... Vick was the definition of a scrambler. He was never really a set and throw passer. He never had a big year @ VT or anything resembling what Murray just did @ OU.
I wish Murray was just like... 2 inches taller. I'd absolutely love him if he were. Even still... I see a lot of things to like and wouldn't be mad at all if he was the guy they set their sights on and made a play for.
I don't think that's what we'll do.. but I'd be on board if we did.