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Giants with $12.26 million in cap space left

gidiefor : Mod : 3/17/2019 7:05 pm
per Albert Breer
Link - ( New Window )
So 2.6 really since DG wants $10 million for in season contingencies  
The_Boss : 3/17/2019 7:07 pm : link
-
Not a lot considering DG said they need 8-10 mil  
nyjuggernaut2 : 3/17/2019 7:07 pm : link
for draft picks.
how accurate is this?  
Bruner4329 : 3/17/2019 7:12 pm : link
Some teams would not be able to sign draft picks if these amounts are true.
...  
christian : 3/17/2019 7:12 pm : link
According to Spotrac the Giants slot rookie pool needs to be:

Round 1, Pick #6 $4,634,581
Round 1, Pick #17 $2,394,232
Round 2, Pick #37 $1,382,122
Round 3, Pick #70 $762,070
Round 3, Pick #95 $702,609
Round 4, Pick #108 $686,254
Round 4, Pick #132 $655,076
Round 5, Pick #142 $580,080
Round 5, Pick #143 $578,407
Round 5, Pick #171 $553,276
Round 6, Pick #180 $541,127
Round 7, Pick #232 $517,917
Round 7, Pick #245 $513,750
Projected Draft Pool: $14,501,501
Giants are going to need...  
bw in dc : 3/17/2019 7:13 pm : link
at least $7M available if they stay put at #6 and #17.

And probably $10-11M+ overall for the draft...
the Giants are going to trade  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/17/2019 7:14 pm : link
Jack Rabbit -- that will free up some space
RE: ...  
robbieballs2003 : 3/17/2019 7:15 pm : link
In comment 14343982 christian said:
Quote:
According to Spotrac the Giants slot rookie pool needs to be:

Round 1, Pick #6 $4,634,581
Round 1, Pick #17 $2,394,232
Round 2, Pick #37 $1,382,122
Round 3, Pick #70 $762,070
Round 3, Pick #95 $702,609
Round 4, Pick #108 $686,254
Round 4, Pick #132 $655,076
Round 5, Pick #142 $580,080
Round 5, Pick #143 $578,407
Round 5, Pick #171 $553,276
Round 6, Pick #180 $541,127
Round 7, Pick #232 $517,917
Round 7, Pick #245 $513,750
Projected Draft Pool: $14,501,501


But those later picks probably won't count against tye cap because of the top 51 rule.
Gidiefor  
George from PA : 3/17/2019 7:16 pm : link
Is that an opinion or fact?
RE: the Giants are going to trade  
christian : 3/17/2019 7:16 pm : link
In comment 14343985 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Jack Rabbit -- that will free up some space


That's a good target -- I also suspect Ogletree's contract was redone to spread his roster bonus into a signing bonus.
RE: the Giants are going to trade  
eric2425ny : 3/17/2019 7:18 pm : link
In comment 14343985 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Jack Rabbit -- that will free up some space


Probably, at first glance I thought no way, but why keep him at this point? We are not vying for a SB this year. This is honestly kind of exciting to see us build a brand new roster, we weren’t winning anything with the old one.
Eli  
Marty866b : 3/17/2019 7:18 pm : link
As long as we keep paying him all is well.
RE: the Giants are going to trade  
adamg : 3/17/2019 7:18 pm : link
In comment 14343985 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Jack Rabbit -- that will free up some space


Makes sense to do that and then make corner a priority in the draft.
Remember there will be cap displacement  
Chip : 3/17/2019 7:18 pm : link
for 12 players of 7 million. so you need to subtract that amount from the total since we have more than 51 players under contract.
Same with Shep and wide receiver  
adamg : 3/17/2019 7:19 pm : link
Or Goodson and linebacker. Not sure Goodson will fetch much, though, I think he's decent.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 3/17/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14343987 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14343982 christian said:


Quote:


According to Spotrac the Giants slot rookie pool needs to be:

Round 1, Pick #6 $4,634,581
Round 1, Pick #17 $2,394,232
Round 2, Pick #37 $1,382,122
Round 3, Pick #70 $762,070
Round 3, Pick #95 $702,609
Round 4, Pick #108 $686,254
Round 4, Pick #132 $655,076
Round 5, Pick #142 $580,080
Round 5, Pick #143 $578,407
Round 5, Pick #171 $553,276
Round 6, Pick #180 $541,127
Round 7, Pick #232 $517,917
Round 7, Pick #245 $513,750
Projected Draft Pool: $14,501,501



But those later picks probably won't count against tye cap because of the top 51 rule.


Yeah as of now pick 171 and down won't get into the top 51, so the cap implications are about 2M less.
RE: Not a lot considering DG said they need 8-10 mil  
DavidinBMNY : 3/17/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14343972 nyjuggernaut2 said:
Quote:
for draft picks.
The cap situation can be manipulated, I wouldn't be overly concerned. That said I wouldn't mind them not spending and in a sense tanking.
RE: Gidiefor  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/17/2019 7:20 pm : link
In comment 14343989 George from PA said:
Quote:
Is that an opinion or fact?


its an edumacated opinion
RE: So 2.6 really since DG wants $10 million for in season contingencies  
adamg : 3/17/2019 7:20 pm : link
In comment 14343971 The_Boss said:
Quote:
-
2.26?
RE: RE: Gidiefor  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/17/2019 7:22 pm : link
In comment 14344002 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 14343989 George from PA said:


Quote:


Is that an opinion or fact?



its an edumacated opinion


by the way - the Colts are looking to trade for a corner
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: So 2.6 really since DG wants $10 million for in season contingencies  
The_Boss : 3/17/2019 7:24 pm : link
In comment 14344003 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14343971 The_Boss said:


Quote:


-

2.26?


Yeah I immediately saw I f’ed that up after I submitted my post.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
robbieballs2003 : 3/17/2019 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14343998 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14343987 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 14343982 christian said:


Quote:


According to Spotrac the Giants slot rookie pool needs to be:

Round 1, Pick #6 $4,634,581
Round 1, Pick #17 $2,394,232
Round 2, Pick #37 $1,382,122
Round 3, Pick #70 $762,070
Round 3, Pick #95 $702,609
Round 4, Pick #108 $686,254
Round 4, Pick #132 $655,076
Round 5, Pick #142 $580,080
Round 5, Pick #143 $578,407
Round 5, Pick #171 $553,276
Round 6, Pick #180 $541,127
Round 7, Pick #232 $517,917
Round 7, Pick #245 $513,750
Projected Draft Pool: $14,501,501



But those later picks probably won't count against tye cap because of the top 51 rule.



Yeah as of now pick 171 and down won't get into the top 51, so the cap implications are about 2M less.


Even more though. Every one of those contracts above that push another contract off you have to subtract the contracts coming off the books too.
Zeitler can be reworked  
USAF NYG Fan : 3/17/2019 7:28 pm : link
As can others. If they cut/trade anyone it will probably be dependent on the positions they draft for.
To me  
SJGiant : 3/17/2019 7:28 pm : link
It looks like Rhett Ellison is the best to cut.
RE: To me  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/17/2019 7:31 pm : link
In comment 14344021 SJGiant said:
Quote:
It looks like Rhett Ellison is the best to cut.


unlikely -- they just re-signed him


jtgiants implied that there is likely to be more trades -- Shep, Engram and Jackrabbit remain the likely candidates
RE: ...  
mavric : 3/17/2019 7:31 pm : link
In comment 14343982 christian said:
Quote:
According to Spotrac the Giants slot rookie pool needs to be:

Round 1, Pick #6 $4,634,581
Round 1, Pick #17 $2,394,232
Round 2, Pick #37 $1,382,122
Round 3, Pick #70 $762,070
Round 3, Pick #95 $702,609
Round 4, Pick #108 $686,254
Round 4, Pick #132 $655,076
Round 5, Pick #142 $580,080
Round 5, Pick #143 $578,407
Round 5, Pick #171 $553,276
Round 6, Pick #180 $541,127
Round 7, Pick #232 $517,917
Round 7, Pick #245 $513,750
Projected Draft Pool: $14,501,501


Whoa....when did we get that extra 3rd round pick...at 70 no less
Eli $  
Jim Bur(n)t : 3/17/2019 7:32 pm : link
killing us...
good pick up mavric  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/17/2019 7:32 pm : link
that's a boo boo at Spot Trac -- that pick is gone
It'll be more once Zeitler restructures his deal  
Anakim : 3/17/2019 7:35 pm : link
.
RE: It'll be more once Zeitler restructures his deal  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/17/2019 7:38 pm : link
In comment 14344031 Anakim said:
Quote:
.


They are definitely going to do that to free up some space just like they did with Ogletree last season.
If we cut Ellison after 6/1  
5BowlsSoon : 3/17/2019 7:39 pm : link
We Save about 4 million on the cap

I would like to think the Giants value Ellison seeing they just acquired him last year. I don’t see how you devalue a guy that quickly.This tells me something about our managers....not very wise.
Eliot's cap hit  
santacruzom : 3/17/2019 7:40 pm : link
Is roughly a million dollars per interception he'll throw.
insane amount of dead  
Enzo : 3/17/2019 7:41 pm : link
money last year and this year. And a huge cap hit at QB. And a big cap hit at RB. But hey, let's try and win!
Er,  
santacruzom : 3/17/2019 7:41 pm : link
Eli.

Autocorrect. Can't type with it, can't type without it.
RE: If we cut Ellison after 6/1  
adamg : 3/17/2019 7:43 pm : link
In comment 14344034 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
We Save about 4 million on the cap

I would like to think the Giants value Ellison seeing they just acquired him last year. I don’t see how you devalue a guy that quickly.This tells me something about our managers....not very wise.


Ellison was a Reese signing two years ago. Not last year. But they already cut a guy they signed. Omameh...
RE: RE: To me  
SJGiant : 3/17/2019 7:45 pm : link
In comment 14344025 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 14344021 SJGiant said:


Quote:


It looks like Rhett Ellison is the best to cut.



unlikely -- they just re-signed him


jtgiants implied that there is likely to be more trades -- Shep, Engram and Jackrabbit remain the likely candidates


If you mean March 2017 is when they just resigned him,that is two years ago. At least that is what OTC says.

Rhett Ellison contract - ( New Window )
RE: the Giants are going to trade  
M.S. : 3/17/2019 7:50 pm : link
In comment 14343985 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Jack Rabbit -- that will free up some space

Definitely looking forward to getting rid of our last good back line defensive player.
Get rid of everyone except Eli.  
Default : 3/17/2019 7:50 pm : link
Makes sense...
Most of the teams with the least cap space  
Essex : 3/17/2019 7:51 pm : link
win ( a few exceptions like the Bucs), but we are not a well run team at the moment
RE: Eli $  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/17/2019 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14344028 Jim Bur(n)t said:
Quote:
killing us...


I would say the $34 million in DEAD MONEY is the bigger issue.
RE: RE: RE: To me  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/17/2019 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14344051 SJGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14344025 gidiefor said:


Quote:


In comment 14344021 SJGiant said:


Quote:


It looks like Rhett Ellison is the best to cut.



unlikely -- they just re-signed him


jtgiants implied that there is likely to be more trades -- Shep, Engram and Jackrabbit remain the likely candidates



If you mean March 2017 is when they just resigned him,that is two years ago. At least that is what OTC says. Rhett Ellison contract - ( New Window )


my bad -- senility -- Penny was the one they re-signed not Ellison
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
christian : 3/17/2019 7:58 pm : link
In comment 14344014 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Even more though. Every one of those contracts above that push another contract off you have to subtract the contracts coming off the books too.


Sure -- but then because of how top heavy the Giants roster is with salary, a number of these draft picks might cost more toward the cap than the incumbent.

Bottom line the Giants will need 11M+ (correcting for that errant 3rd round pick and accounting for top 51) -- whether that room comes from existing space or cutting other players.

If the Giants are going to add much more this offseason there will need to be corresponding moves to make room.
RE: RE: Gidiefor  
Beer Man : 3/17/2019 8:00 pm : link
In comment 14344002 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 14343989 George from PA said:


Quote:


Is that an opinion or fact?



its an edumacated opinion
LOL
They can get some extra money if they  
halfback20 : 3/17/2019 8:12 pm : link
Rework zeitlers contract right?
maybe this is why Remmers and his agent walked and are keeping in  
plato : 3/17/2019 8:18 pm : link
touch
RE: RE: Eli $  
bw in dc : 3/17/2019 8:19 pm : link
In comment 14344070 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14344028 Jim Bur(n)t said:


Quote:


killing us...



I would say the $34 million in DEAD MONEY is the bigger issue.


All the more reason we needed Eli’s cap space...
Why trade Engram?  
Marty866b : 3/17/2019 8:19 pm : link
He's on a rookie contract. He plays a position that we need help and he has plenty of potential. Not EVERYTHING Reese did was a mistake. Reese at least has two Super Bowl rings as the GM and Gettleman will retire with none in the sale role.
The cap can be played with a million ways. Sure  
Big Blue '56 : 3/17/2019 8:29 pm : link
some teams get hurt depthwise, but not for long. That shoild be obvious by now. We will do whatever we care to do with minimal negative impact, imv..

That’s not how it goes during these times..No concern at all
RE: maybe this is why Remmers and his agent walked and are keeping in  
Lurts : 3/17/2019 8:31 pm : link
In comment 14344091 plato said:
Quote:
touch


That makes sense, Plato.
Obviously they are going to have to clear some space.  
Beer Man : 3/17/2019 8:34 pm : link
They have 12 draft picks to sign (probably be less) and DG has stated that he needs $10M slush fund for the season.
Cap Savings Candidates -  
Diver_Down : 3/17/2019 8:44 pm : link
Jenkins - Current Cap hit $14.75M; Cut Cap Savings $7.75M
Ellison - Current Cap hit $5.75M; Cut Cap Savings $3.25M


Those 2 alone is almost enough to sign the rookie class. It is also likely that we won't be making all 12 picks. Some picks will be used to trade up to target specific players.

There is also the probability that Shep is traded. Wouldn't be surprised if Engram finds a ticket out of town.

Then we can always restructure contracts. Zeitler is an obvious candidate, but we could also restructure Nate Solder's deal. I would prefer that we not touch Nate's so that we can get out from his contract sooner than later. And the obvious elephant in the room is Eli's contract. It would be an easy one to gain a chunk of cap room by tacking on a year or 2 with an extension.
RE: Obviously they are going to have to clear some space.  
Photoguy : 3/17/2019 9:13 pm : link
In comment 14344105 Beer Man said:
Quote:
They have 12 draft picks to sign (probably be less) and DG has stated that he needs $10M slush fund for the season.


12 draft picks........or less if they end up packaging a few to move up in other rounds.
Folks really can't seem to grasp this whole cap issue  
ryanmkeane : 3/17/2019 9:14 pm : link
and especially the dead money issue. You guys are hammering the Giants for having dead money this year??

The goal was always to clear the deck for 2020, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing. They weren't going to be big spenders for free agency this year, and the dead money thing is not on Gettleman, he made moves to clear that stuff off the books for next year.

I really don't get why people don't understand this. We will have 90M+ in cap space next year.
RE: Folks really can't seem to grasp this whole cap issue  
Diver_Down : 3/17/2019 9:20 pm : link
In comment 14344137 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
and especially the dead money issue. You guys are hammering the Giants for having dead money this year??

The goal was always to clear the deck for 2020, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing. They weren't going to be big spenders for free agency this year, and the dead money thing is not on Gettleman, he made moves to clear that stuff off the books for next year.

I really don't get why people don't understand this. We will have 90M+ in cap space next year.


The goal was always to clear the deck, but we also can't have Wheeler penciled in as the starter. Sure, we could draft a project which is more likely if we could sign Remmers. But we don't have the cap space to sign him so if we don't release Jenkins/Ellison (the obvious cap savings), then DG will be compelled to ensure RT is addressed with a clear upgrade by using an early pick. Not the worse case scenario as I would rather one of the first 3 picks to be a RT and forget about Remmers. We already have $30M in the Offensive line. We need to not be buying FA OL, and turn to the draft to complete the overhaul.

RE: Folks really can't seem to grasp this whole cap issue  
TheMick7 : 3/17/2019 9:27 pm : link
In comment 14344137 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
and especially the dead money issue. You guys are hammering the Giants for having dead money this year??

The goal was always to clear the deck for 2020, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing. They weren't going to be big spenders for free agency this year, and the dead money thing is not on Gettleman, he made moves to clear that stuff off the books for next year.

I really don't get why people don't understand this. We will have 90M+ in cap space next year.


$16 million of the dead money is on Gettleman(OBJ)!
Next steps  
Emil : 3/17/2019 9:27 pm : link
Was going to start a new thread on this, but this discussion is perfect to insert my thoughts.

- As insinuated by JTgiants, DG is not done. I expect another trade. In fact I think there will be two.

- Jackrabbit makes sense. His trade value is probably as high as it’s ever going to be and he’s 30. He is a good corner but the Giants are clearing any high priced player from the old regime. Also something tells me that Jackrabbit does not fit into DGs no distractions and team chemistry philosophy. I’d expect the Giants to package Jackrabbit with a pick to get another pick in the top 90.

- The other two candidates are Shephard and Engram, and I think Shephard is the more likely of the two to be moved. He had one year left on his deal, and almost inevitably will be overpaid by someone. He’s also not the type of WR who earns a franchise tag. I’ve said many times he’s an ideal #3, not a #2, but that’s another conversation. If he can fetch a top 100 pick you do it. I wouldn’t trade Engram. Giants have him for three more years on a very reasonable salary.

- I have a sneaking suspicion that Pat Schurmur is just a little in love with Kyler Murray. He has the traits Schurmur covets. Quick release, good mobility in and out of the pocket, can throw accurately from any arm angle, and is strong in the horizontal game. I also don’t believe, despite comments about big QBs, I don’t think for one second Schurmur is detered by Murray’s height. He thinks he can coach anyone.

- I’m not the biggest Murray fan. I love his talent but I have yet to impressed with any of the interviews I’ve hard. That said, I think pairing Saquon with a QB who has mobility will only make Barkley more lethal and make the offense even harder to stop.

- Again, all speculation. But if the Giants can get two more picks (2nd or 3rd round) I think they will try and package a deal to get to number one. Something like 6 overall, number one next year, and a combination of a 2nd (either this year or next) with a 3rd/4th. If the Giants think Murray is a franchise QB I think they’ll try.

- supporting this theory is the possibility that Edge rusher Sweat will now drop because of medical and Ferguson will likely be there at 17 anyway.
great analysis Emil  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/17/2019 9:34 pm : link
and Diver -- made some salient points as well
RE: Folks really can't seem to grasp this whole cap issue  
christian : 3/17/2019 9:37 pm : link
In comment 14344137 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
and especially the dead money issue. You guys are hammering the Giants for having dead money this year??

The goal was always to clear the deck for 2020, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing. They weren't going to be big spenders for free agency this year, and the dead money thing is not on Gettleman, he made moves to clear that stuff off the books for next year.

I really don't get why people don't understand this. We will have 90M+ in cap space next year.


About 2/3 of the dead money in 2019 are from contracts Gettleman negotiated. Let's not pretend this happened to him.
Question:  
Leg of Theismann : 3/17/2019 9:49 pm : link
Will we have dead cap related to Beckham and Vernon in 2020 as well? Or is this like one-time dead cap hits? Basically I'm asking are we at least biting the bullet this year or we going to pay in 2020 as well?
RE: RE: Folks really can't seem to grasp this whole cap issue  
eric2425ny : 3/17/2019 9:54 pm : link
In comment 14344156 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14344137 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


and especially the dead money issue. You guys are hammering the Giants for having dead money this year??

The goal was always to clear the deck for 2020, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing. They weren't going to be big spenders for free agency this year, and the dead money thing is not on Gettleman, he made moves to clear that stuff off the books for next year.

I really don't get why people don't understand this. We will have 90M+ in cap space next year.



About 2/3 of the dead money in 2019 are from contracts Gettleman negotiated. Let's not pretend this happened to him.


They can take the cap hit this year, this was planned. Barring a miracle we aren’t competing in 2019. The Giants got more for Beckham trading him post contract than they would have if they shipped him out last year. He was coming off an ugly ankle injury and any team that would have traded for him at that time would have had to give up picks and pay him a ton of money. The $16.2 looks horrible this year but it was necessary. We basically just bought ourselves a first round pick and maybe more if you compare the trade to the Steelers giving up AB for a third and fifth and taking a $21M cap hit!
was up for all the moves  
jmalls23 : 3/17/2019 9:54 pm : link
Keeping Eli is mind boggling if we trade for or draft a QB
RE: RE: Folks really can't seem to grasp this whole cap issue  
Leg of Theismann : 3/17/2019 9:56 pm : link
In comment 14344156 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14344137 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


and especially the dead money issue. You guys are hammering the Giants for having dead money this year??

The goal was always to clear the deck for 2020, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing. They weren't going to be big spenders for free agency this year, and the dead money thing is not on Gettleman, he made moves to clear that stuff off the books for next year.

I really don't get why people don't understand this. We will have 90M+ in cap space next year.



About 2/3 of the dead money in 2019 are from contracts Gettleman negotiated. Let's not pretend this happened to him.


By 2/3 I think you mean 1/2? Beckham + Omameh = $18M in dead cap. That's SLIGHTLY more than 50% of $34M. But still you make a valid point. That $16M dead cap that DG saddled us with in his 2nd year on a contract HE negotiated looks bad on him.
RE: Question:  
eric2425ny : 3/17/2019 9:58 pm : link
In comment 14344163 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
Will we have dead cap related to Beckham and Vernon in 2020 as well? Or is this like one-time dead cap hits? Basically I'm asking are we at least biting the bullet this year or we going to pay in 2020 as well?


It’s all this year. They are eating the prorated portion of the signing bonuses for each player. The signing bonus does not go with the player in the trade, only the base salary. And even if the Giants prorated OBJ’s signing bonus over 4 years, whatever is left after year 1 of the contract gets accelerated to this year to clear the books as he is no longer on the team.
Lots here would be more excited about winning the PFF  
Reese's Pieces : 3/17/2019 10:05 pm : link
award for Best Cap Management than winning another Lombardi trophy.

Why keep Jenkins instead of trading him (probably for two 7th round draft picks) and making CB a draft priority?

Young players learn from veterans.
It's better for even a rebuilding team to win games to build their confidence.

Eric Scouting Report:

While Janoris Jenkins did not have one of better seasons, giving up a number of big plays in 2018, he still remains one of the better cornerbacks in the NFL. Jenkins started all 16 games and finished with 70 tackles, 15 pass defenses, 2 interceptions, and 1 forced fumble.

Since you want to make CB a draft priority where does it fit in on the list of current priorities:

Quarterback
Pass Rushers
Right Tackle
Outside Linebacker

Jenning's contract is a good one to re-work to free up cap space. Think of it as borrowing against next year's cap when Eli finally comes off the roster.
RE: Next steps  
Pan-handler : 3/17/2019 10:19 pm : link
In comment 14344149 Emil said:
Quote:
Was going to start a new thread on this, but this discussion is perfect to insert my thoughts.

- As insinuated by JTgiants, DG is not done. I expect another trade. In fact I think there will be two.

- Jackrabbit makes sense. His trade value is probably as high as it’s ever going to be and he’s 30. He is a good corner but the Giants are clearing any high priced player from the old regime. Also something tells me that Jackrabbit does not fit into DGs no distractions and team chemistry philosophy. I’d expect the Giants to package Jackrabbit with a pick to get another pick in the top 90.

- The other two candidates are Shephard and Engram, and I think Shephard is the more likely of the two to be moved. He had one year left on his deal, and almost inevitably will be overpaid by someone. He’s also not the type of WR who earns a franchise tag. I’ve said many times he’s an ideal #3, not a #2, but that’s another conversation. If he can fetch a top 100 pick you do it. I wouldn’t trade Engram. Giants have him for three more years on a very reasonable salary.

- I have a sneaking suspicion that Pat Schurmur is just a little in love with Kyler Murray. He has the traits Schurmur covets. Quick release, good mobility in and out of the pocket, can throw accurately from any arm angle, and is strong in the horizontal game. I also don’t believe, despite comments about big QBs, I don’t think for one second Schurmur is detered by Murray’s height. He thinks he can coach anyone.

- I’m not the biggest Murray fan. I love his talent but I have yet to impressed with any of the interviews I’ve hard. That said, I think pairing Saquon with a QB who has mobility will only make Barkley more lethal and make the offense even harder to stop.

- Again, all speculation. But if the Giants can get two more picks (2nd or 3rd round) I think they will try and package a deal to get to number one. Something like 6 overall, number one next year, and a combination of a 2nd (either this year or next) with a 3rd/4th. If the Giants think Murray is a franchise QB I think they’ll try.

- supporting this theory is the possibility that Edge rusher Sweat will now drop because of medical and Ferguson will likely be there at 17 anyway.


The only way you trade the only proven CB on your team is if you go with a guy in the draft who you think is an instant impact day 1 starter. That to me is Greedy Williams. But even with that said I dont see them giving up the only strong veteran starter on the team.

If they want to win this year as they say. You need to keep JJ. You arent starting a bunch of rookies at CB (or marginal vets)
Also I dont think Cards give up the pick  
Pan-handler : 3/17/2019 10:22 pm : link
Murray is a perfect fit for what he wants to run as his ideal offense. Coaches have preferred systems and Murray is the guy to run that system.

The offer would have to be ridiculous , like really ridiculous.
KMurray  
5BowlsSoon : 3/17/2019 10:23 pm : link
Will be a moot subject if Arizona wants him
Win this year  
Marty866b : 3/17/2019 10:24 pm : link
Yeah, I know what jt has said but I don't know if even he believes it.The Giants are a expansion team with a 38 year old quarterback. If you want to rebuild, tear it all down. You do it half ass you are just spinning your wheels.
They figure to have a lot of cap space in 2020  
Go Terps : 3/17/2019 10:30 pm : link
That will be the time to completely rethink their approach to free agency and second contracts to their own picks. More Markus Golden type deals, and no more Olivier Vernon type deals.

Move this more toward a year to year operation. Stay fluid and focus more on depth and value.
8 stinking wins in the last two seasons  
Jimmy Googs : 3/17/2019 10:40 pm : link
staring at another 6-10 season in 2019 with a 39 year old QB. And we have salary cap issues.

What a joke...
I could find a few GMs on BBI  
Jimmy Googs : 3/17/2019 10:42 pm : link
that could do better than this..
RE: RE: RE: Folks really can't seem to grasp this whole cap issue  
christian : 3/17/2019 10:49 pm : link
In comment 14344173 Leg of Theismann said:
[quoteBy 2/3 I think you mean 1/2? Beckham + Omameh = $18M in dead cap. That's SLIGHTLY more than 50% of $34M. But still you make a valid point. That $16M dead cap that DG saddled us with in his 2nd year on a contract HE negotiated looks bad on him. [/quote]

OBJ, Omameh, Barwin, and Stewart make up about 19.6M which is about 58% of the dead money, pardon the 2/3 comment.

Gettleman had many options; Beckham, who had practiced regularly, proving his health, on the 5th year option at 8.5M was plenty valuable.

Gettleman chose not to trade him, but to give him what amounted to 22M+ for 12 games.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Folks really can't seem to grasp this whole cap issue  
SGMen : 3/17/2019 11:49 pm : link
In comment 14344206 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14344173 Leg of Theismann said:
[quoteBy 2/3 I think you mean 1/2? Beckham + Omameh = $18M in dead cap. That's SLIGHTLY more than 50% of $34M. But still you make a valid point. That $16M dead cap that DG saddled us with in his 2nd year on a contract HE negotiated looks bad on him.


OBJ, Omameh, Barwin, and Stewart make up about 19.6M which is about 58% of the dead money, pardon the 2/3 comment.

Gettleman had many options; Beckham, who had practiced regularly, proving his health, on the 5th year option at 8.5M was plenty valuable.

Gettleman chose not to trade him, but to give him what amounted to 22M+ for 12 games. [/quote]something "bad" happened with OBJ that we may never know about. We got burned
RE: I could find a few GMs on BBI  
Deejboy : 3/18/2019 2:09 am : link
In comment 14344201 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
that could do better than this..

No they couldn't. Everyone here is a wannabee GM and we all suck and are delusional. We are fans.
for all the talk about Shurmer coaching qbs and Murray being mobile  
plato : 3/18/2019 2:16 am : link
like the coach likes i would caution

“no matter how good a coach you are you can’t coach height and smarts”
RE: RE: RE: Folks really can't seem to grasp this whole cap issue  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/18/2019 6:18 am : link
In comment 14344169 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 14344156 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 14344137 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


and especially the dead money issue. You guys are hammering the Giants for having dead money this year??

The goal was always to clear the deck for 2020, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing. They weren't going to be big spenders for free agency this year, and the dead money thing is not on Gettleman, he made moves to clear that stuff off the books for next year.

I really don't get why people don't understand this. We will have 90M+ in cap space next year.



About 2/3 of the dead money in 2019 are from contracts Gettleman negotiated. Let's not pretend this happened to him.



They can take the cap hit this year, this was planned. Barring a miracle we aren’t competing in 2019.


It was planned to spend $62 million on a starting LT knowing they weren't going to play any meaningful games until his age 32 season?
Where's the love  
fkap : 3/18/2019 8:33 am : link
for our cap wizard Abrams, now?
Doubt that they trade  
section125 : 3/18/2019 8:33 am : link
or cut Ellison and Engram. They would not have any TEs except Simonsen....
Eat the cap shit sammich in 2019  
JonC : 3/18/2019 8:44 am : link
so you're clean for 2020 with three full offseasons of change and talent infusion onboard.

Make just enough space to sign your draft pool, and have room for contingencies for the season. I think they're probably done with big UFA unless an edge rusher like Houston shows interest. I'm watching for a trade or two, as well.
RE: Where's the love  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/18/2019 8:53 am : link
In comment 14344389 fkap said:
Quote:
for our cap wizard Abrams, now?


It wasn't his call to sign useless contracts like Omameh and Stewart, or bloated ones like Solder if they knew they weren't going anywhere.
RE: Eat the cap shit sammich in 2019  
christian : 3/18/2019 8:55 am : link
In comment 14344417 JonC said:
Quote:
so you're clean for 2020 with three full offseasons of change and talent infusion onboard.

Make just enough space to sign your draft pool, and have room for contingencies for the season. I think they're probably done with big UFA unless an edge rusher like Houston shows interest. I'm watching for a trade or two, as well.


As a fan I was prepared for that -- I don't understand how 23M for a WR in his 10th and 11th season fits into it.

I feel like when Gettleman gets too close to committing to a rebuild he has an involuntary urge to sign a guy on the wrong side of 30 to an 8-digit salary.
RE: Next steps  
AcidTest : 3/18/2019 8:57 am : link
In comment 14344149 Emil said:
Quote:
Was going to start a new thread on this, but this discussion is perfect to insert my thoughts.

- As insinuated by JTgiants, DG is not done. I expect another trade. In fact I think there will be two.

- Jackrabbit makes sense. His trade value is probably as high as it’s ever going to be and he’s 30. He is a good corner but the Giants are clearing any high priced player from the old regime. Also something tells me that Jackrabbit does not fit into DGs no distractions and team chemistry philosophy. I’d expect the Giants to package Jackrabbit with a pick to get another pick in the top 90.

- The other two candidates are Shephard and Engram, and I think Shephard is the more likely of the two to be moved. He had one year left on his deal, and almost inevitably will be overpaid by someone. He’s also not the type of WR who earns a franchise tag. I’ve said many times he’s an ideal #3, not a #2, but that’s another conversation. If he can fetch a top 100 pick you do it. I wouldn’t trade Engram. Giants have him for three more years on a very reasonable salary.

- I have a sneaking suspicion that Pat Schurmur is just a little in love with Kyler Murray. He has the traits Schurmur covets. Quick release, good mobility in and out of the pocket, can throw accurately from any arm angle, and is strong in the horizontal game. I also don’t believe, despite comments about big QBs, I don’t think for one second Schurmur is detered by Murray’s height. He thinks he can coach anyone.

- I’m not the biggest Murray fan. I love his talent but I have yet to impressed with any of the interviews I’ve hard. That said, I think pairing Saquon with a QB who has mobility will only make Barkley more lethal and make the offense even harder to stop.

- Again, all speculation. But if the Giants can get two more picks (2nd or 3rd round) I think they will try and package a deal to get to number one. Something like 6 overall, number one next year, and a combination of a 2nd (either this year or next) with a 3rd/4th. If the Giants think Murray is a franchise QB I think they’ll try.

- supporting this theory is the possibility that Edge rusher Sweat will now drop because of medical and Ferguson will likely be there at 17 anyway.


I agree that Jenkins and Shepard could well be traded. Engram is less likely IMO. He's a real mismatch against every LB.

The Giants might well want to put a package together to move up to #1 for Murray. I wouldn't, but I agree they might want to do so for the reasons you state. The problem is that Arizona wants him, and any package would therefore have to include #6, #17, and other picks. I don't see DG doing that given all the other holes on the team, especially for a 5'10" QB. I also don't see them getting a second or third for either Jenkins or Shepard.
I dont understand the comments about trading Shephard  
ron mexico : 3/18/2019 9:03 am : link
he counts less than 2mm against the cap

RE: I dont understand the comments about trading Shephard  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/18/2019 9:04 am : link
In comment 14344449 ron mexico said:
Quote:
he counts less than 2mm against the cap


He's up for a contract in 16 games.

Why on earth are they going to pay market value for a 2/3 WR?
RE: RE: Eat the cap shit sammich in 2019  
JonC : 3/18/2019 9:05 am : link
In comment 14344433 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14344417 JonC said:


Quote:


so you're clean for 2020 with three full offseasons of change and talent infusion onboard.

Make just enough space to sign your draft pool, and have room for contingencies for the season. I think they're probably done with big UFA unless an edge rusher like Houston shows interest. I'm watching for a trade or two, as well.



As a fan I was prepared for that -- I don't understand how 23M for a WR in his 10th and 11th season fits into it.

I feel like when Gettleman gets too close to committing to a rebuild he has an involuntary urge to sign a guy on the wrong side of 30 to an 8-digit salary.


Feel the same way about the Tate deal. The uneven decision making so far leaves one upbeat and clear minded one minute, and scratching the head waiting for the next big bomb to strike.
RE: Folks really can't seem to grasp this whole cap issue  
GeofromNJ : 3/18/2019 10:02 am : link
In comment 14344137 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
and especially the dead money issue. You guys are hammering the Giants for having dead money this year??

The goal was always to clear the deck for 2020, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing. They weren't going to be big spenders for free agency this year, and the dead money thing is not on Gettleman, he made moves to clear that stuff off the books for next year.

I really don't get why people don't understand this. We will have 90M+ in cap space next year.

If this is a "throw away" year, why didn't the Giants throw away Eli and use the money to sign a free agent who will be on the team this year and also in 2020?
RE: RE: Folks really can't seem to grasp this whole cap issue  
Big Blue '56 : 3/18/2019 10:09 am : link
In comment 14344577 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14344137 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


and especially the dead money issue. You guys are hammering the Giants for having dead money this year??

The goal was always to clear the deck for 2020, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing. They weren't going to be big spenders for free agency this year, and the dead money thing is not on Gettleman, he made moves to clear that stuff off the books for next year.

I really don't get why people don't understand this. We will have 90M+ in cap space next year.


If this is a "throw away" year, why didn't the Giants throw away Eli and use the money to sign a free agent who will be on the team this year and also in 2020?


It’s a throwaway year in the minds of the media and some fans only. The Giants don’t view it that way. Neither do I
The dead money is fine  
AcesUp : 3/18/2019 10:55 am : link
It's necessary to clear the decks. They'll have enough money to sign their draft picks and do whatever they want this year by tapping into the cap of 2020 and beyond. However, the goal should be to do everything in their power to keep the slate as clean as possible for when it's time for you to keep a winning roster together. You do that by drafting well and avoiding short sighted roster moves in the rebuilding stage.
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