unless your endgame is either A)Treading water so the bottom doesn't fall out or B)Selling tickets while Eli accumulates better numbers and stats for his HOF bid.
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I'm glad someone else noticed this. The guy said he wanted to avoid QB hell while standing firmly at the center of it.
unless your endgame is either A)Treading water so the bottom doesn't fall out or B)Selling tickets while Eli accumulates better numbers and stats for his HOF bid.
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I get it now. You are one of the fans that never did (and probably never will) get over the fact that we didn't take Sam Darnold.
RE: RE: 'A team of 53 Zak DeOssies, Dave Diehls, and David Tyrees'... Â
Why do people insist on makiing fools of themselves with posts like these?
Why do people insist on demanding a certain typecast for football players? The world may never know. It's just what I think of when fans wax poetic about 'grit'.
Leave me out of this
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
So what if they don't like Rosen (as some reports say) OR they are simply asking way too much from a team that has holes galore on defense.
And what if they don't like the QBs in this year's draft?
I think DG is going with what his best option is right now, and that's Eli.
Yes DG talks about avoiding QB hell and we are in the middle of it right now with an aging QB. No one said getting out of it was easy.
To draft a QB simply to say you have something new isn't the way to get it done, and DG knows that.
Johnny Mara is bound and determined to keep Eli out there for as long as Mannning is willing to step on the field.
I would expect another 1-2 years of Eli as starter and who knows what sort of shape SB or the rest of the team will be in.
"The rest of the team" is going to mostly be draft picks selected either last year (7), this year (currently 12), or next year (currently 9). Stockpiling draft picks is the right move right now, as is using that stockpile to find the QB of the future.
Whether Eli starts games between now and then is of little consequence to properly rebuilding through the draft. Getting those picks right is going to sink or swim Gettleman.
RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
Drew, do you really think that DG isn't aware of Eli's age or Â
the need to get his replacement on board? Do you think that he hasn't communicated with the Cards regarding the cost to land Rosen or to move up to #1 for Murray if the Cards are sticking with Rosen?
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
Why would they win sooner? His contract is up after this year, so right now we don't have a QB beyond 2019.
Trading for a young QB off someone else's roster (could be Rosen, could be someone else) is a better option. Even going with Lauletta is a better option.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
RE: Drew, do you really think that DG isn't aware of Eli's age or Â
the need to get his replacement on board? Do you think that he hasn't communicated with the Cards regarding the cost to land Rosen or to move up to #1 for Murray if the Cards are sticking with Rosen?
I have no idea what DG is doing about the QB position other than what he has said publicly.
I sure hope he's looking into all those other options - but i don't know.
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
OK - that sounds great, but how do you know the Cardinals are taking offers right now or that they aren't asking for 3 first rounders? Beyond that, the Giants front office did its homework on Rosen last year and maybe they think he's a jackass.
Trading for a young QB off someone else's roster (could be Rosen, could be someone else) is a better option. Even going with Lauletta is a better option.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
OK - let's say you cut him and go with Lauletta. When it becomes clear that Lauletta is not a starting caliber QB you are back where you started. You didn't build toward anything.
I just can't believe the crap that I'm reading.. Â
... from posters who I genuinely respect, about Eli.
There is NO VALID/CORRECT/PERFECT/Insert-adjective-here WAY to replace an Eli at the end of his career. This is all just bullshit opinion from armchair QB fans (myself included).
Again I so hope Eli SLAYS it next year to at least tamp some of this shit down. Reese and regime failed Eli miserably in the back half of his career. It's pretty clear to my eyes the guy can still play IF HE HAS ADEQUATE blocking, which he hasn't had in a LONG time. That not only cost Eli the back half of his career, it also cost the jobs of a great HC and OC.
I know this guy can still play behind decent OL. And I want this team to be competitive REGARDLESS of who is behind center. The team needs to be rebuilt and there is no better option at QB on the roster right now. Nobody has any clue if we might even be working to get Murray (which would be MY choice). I am willing to give DG next year to show MARKED improvement to the roster and team competitiveness. Let's give the guy more than one season for crissakes and stop crying about the best Giants QB in my lifetime.
Pull on your big boy pants and root for your g*d*mn team you bunch of Nancies! lol
Anything beats paying what the NYG are paying for a guy with 8 wins in two years.
That's what 8 wins the past two years - they are paying a little over $23 mil this year and paid him $41 million the last two years before that....and DG is saying his being over paid is a crock?
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
Eli is not what he once was but he is still way better than Taylor, Bridgewater, and Fitz in my opinion. It's a one year deal too, so there is no commitment to Eli next year. Signing any of those other QB's would probably result in dead money next year and it does nothing to rebuild this roster. It's not like we aren't signing someone because of Eli (at least I don't think that is the case).
Trading for a young QB off someone else's roster (could be Rosen, could be someone else) is a better option. Even going with Lauletta is a better option.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
I don't disagree with most of this post, but IMO if they draft 1 of the QB's this year, I have no issue with that guy going into the season behind Eli. That's actually probably my preferred option vs. pinning hopes to next year's crop of QB's or trading for someone else's flawed QB option (like Rosen).
If they determine he has enough arm talent, I think Daniel Jones at 17 makes a lot of sense. He reminds me of Phillip Rivers, with more mobility. Or Wentz with less arm talent.
What about the $17M I got from cutting Eli? I can turn that into 3 or 4 players.
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
It's actually been a good off-season leading into the draft - OBJ trade brought a quality defender and more draft picks, cut more dead weight, smartly didn't bleak on LC, nice move to get Tate, good swap to get Zeitler.
But this Eli decision is as dumb as it gets. And, I believe, an albatross to really move forward. It wreaks of sentimentality, naivety, delusion, fear, and cow-towing to a fan base that would rather watch Eli more than moving forward and building a long-term solution.
If DG really think Eli is the best solution available than you have to be dubious about him selecting the next QB.
Because after reading Shurmur's quotes last week about the ideal QB he wants to run his offense, it's crystal clear he wants to move on from Eli. Anything else out of his mouth is him just towing the company line...
If telling the truth to reporters is NOT in Gettleman's contract, Â
then I see no reason why he has to. A strategic lie can be good for the Giants rather than just to make Gettleman look good.
Frankly, with the possible exceptions of Mike Francesa and Stephen A. Smith, most reporters would much prefer to be told an interesting lie rather than the boring truth. The boring truth does not sell copy.
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Agreed. It really is perplexing that people can't grasp this concept.
Some of us are actually thinking that Giants FO actually thinks he is the Long term solution.. Nothing that has been done so far shows otherwise.. They haven't asked Eli to take a pay cut. They didn't look for another QB to come in for a cheaper price.. They actually came up with the BS stat that Giants are the highest scoring team in NFC east as if it matters and BTW we are not the highest scoring offense in the NFC east.. Nothing Eli has done over the past 3 years justifies anything.. I have no trust that the Giants don't try to extend him next year..
What about the $17M I got from cutting Eli? I can turn that into 3 or 4 players.
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
I question if there's enough talent left in FA to get enough surplus value with the $17m compared to signing more modest guys. They can already afford a RT Remmers, Veldeheer, or Schraeder, there's not really a better option out there for more money.
Justin Houston is probably the guy in FA who could get the most $ in a 1 year deal, I'm not sure he moves the needle enough to be worth starting Lauletta - who isn't even a powerball ticket at this point. He's a scratch off.
It's too late now. It had to be done before FA started, and before Eli got his bonus.
Who do you think they should have signed? We should have learned from experience that it's best to sit out the first wave of FA because you always grossly overpay for marginal talent.
John Mara got spooked at the reaction to Eli’s benching Â
Two years ago. I think the organization was ready to move on then, the reaction shocked them and Mara - being incredibly risk averse and unwilling to rock the boat - decided the appropriate course of action was to recommit to Eli.
I firmly believe Gettleman and Shurmur were hired because they told Mara what he wanted to hear about Eli.
I was annoyed McAdoo benched Eli for Geno Smith and I still think he handled it the wrong way but I see where he was coming from. McAdoo probably reacted a little late actually, Manning was a punchline in the national conversation before that benching. But he was still two seasons (and counting) ahead of the current Giants management group.
Anyway nothing I can do about it so I just have to go along for the ride. Been watching Eli play ineffective football and throw devastating interceptions for years now, what’s another season (or two, or three)?
over the next two years, then its ok to have Eli play this year. He will be asked to be a game manager, that's all. His playing is NOT about "building around Eli". He's essentially, a place-holder until his replacement is found. Meanwhile, Gettleman is building the roster one brick at a time. That's the right approach. As JonC said above. 12 picks this year, maybe 11 next year AND over 100 million I cap space, this can be a pretty quick rebuild. From my perspective, we have to have faith, DG knows what he's doing. Otherwise.....
Were 1 year deals, no dead money or commitment beyond this year. Keenum's numbers under Shurmur in 2017 were nearly identical to Eli's last year. I think they're a wash in this offense. If they're not, it's close enough to warrant the 14M in net cap savings. Bridgewater is a guy that is still young and can be seen as possibly having some upside. He would have netted 9-10M in cap. Either of those are superior short term alternatives to Eli in a rebuild. I'm also not so sure that this is Eli's last year.
I hope the Giants plan is to have him mentor a rookie QB this year and the overpay in 2019 is a move made out of respect to a franchise legend. In that case, I'm okay with it. The arguments that spin it any other way ring hollow to me.
Is putting out some very very fair alternative options at the QB position.
I will say Eli - bridge QB - young kid sounds more logical to me. Eli's era ends, you bring in a Tyrod Taylor type and still remain competitive. Everyone including the fans now know you've moved into a new era and truthfully many here would probably be less frustrated since our direction is more clear.
I do not think Eli and the young grasshopper on the same roster is a great idea, now they both have to answer questions about each other and it once again makes a situation that could be drama free kinda volatile.
While you can make the argument Eli may be better than a fringe street starter in terms of play, i think the benefits of moving on off the field favor bringing in a different stopgap.
Let Eli ride off into the sunset - let one chapter end and then start another.
I hope i am humbled and he surprises us this year.
It's too late now. It had to be done before FA started, and before Eli got his bonus.
Ok that makes more sense - and I think that's a somewhat fair position.
I personally disagree with it because I don't think Lauletta is a reasonable option (nor a vet placeholder like Fitzmagic). So I understand not cutting Eli if they didn't like the options available. We don't even know if Rosen is 100% available yet and I'd personally prefer our qb of the future to be more mobile.
With all the draft picks they've added the next 2 years, my #1 option by far is to find a guy they like and get him for a full 5 years at rookie scale. Keeping Eli to give that player time to get acclimated is a benefit in my mind. Especially if it ends up being Murray or Haskins since each had so few starts in CFB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I do enjoy the certainty with which people state that Â
Facts are inconvenient things. Peppers hasn't done much. As a former 1st round pick, he has to be chalked up at this point as "disappointing" which is why he was available in the first place.
Take a look at Peppers year this year. He was pretty damn productive. Williams used him very wisely.
If you say so. Statistically, at least, Collins was better despite playing in 4 fewer games and having a total incompetent as a fellow safety.
RE: As difficult as the recent seasons have been to endure Â
and it was tough to see OB wank his way out of town ... 12 draft picks and very little dead cap money next year are a ton of assets to build on, in addition to the draft last year.
And the draft next year also
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
So having 8 figures in cap space is more important than winning games? Because none of those guys are a lock for more than 5 wins next year.
We needed 3 pieces to the OL....so far we have one.....
12 picks? Most are after the 3rd round....have to be extremely lucky....or used them to package a move up.....
The smart move was to cut Eli and use the 17M either this year or next.....go full rebuild, and get a high draft choice next year....I don't mind losing, when you plan on losing....but when you tell us you are trying to win, and lose, that's a whole other ball game that we have been listening to for years....
Stop with the bullshit. No one wants to replace Eli for the sake of replacing him. No one wants to start Eli forever either.
This entire argument is based on one's evaluation of Eli's play right now. It is subjective. Because it's subjective no one is going to admit they're wrong or change their opinion.
Threads are not going to stop anytime soon. This will be in the discussion for the entire year 2019. Hoping it stops is futile. Buckle up, we're going to complain about every aspect of this for the entire year.
It doesn't seem to me like the Giants have actually looked to upgrade on Eli (from a production AND cost standpoint).
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
None of them wanted to play here. The player has to choose to play here when he’s a free agent. The money in a vacuum doesn’t mean shit.
No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago and what he happens to show on a far more infrequent basis now.
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
Eli is the future.
Wait until the extension is announced for 3 yrs/$60M, $45 guaranteed.
No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago and what he happens to show on a far more infrequent basis now.
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
What a crock. I am hoping we somehow end up with Kyler Murray.
But to say Eli's just done and completely holding the offense back without heavily factoring in the OL situation is absurd. And thinking he can still win with an actual NFL level OL is a justifiable position to hold. And dumping him at all costs is just goofy.
Well I was responding to your first sentence... "No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago..." Yada yada yada.
What did he complain about?
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I'm glad someone else noticed this. The guy said he wanted to avoid QB hell while standing firmly at the center of it.
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I get it now. You are one of the fans that never did (and probably never will) get over the fact that we didn't take Sam Darnold.
Quote:
Why do people insist on makiing fools of themselves with posts like these?
Why do people insist on demanding a certain typecast for football players? The world may never know. It's just what I think of when fans wax poetic about 'grit'.
Leave me out of this
Quote:
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
So what if they don't like Rosen (as some reports say) OR they are simply asking way too much from a team that has holes galore on defense.
And what if they don't like the QBs in this year's draft?
I think DG is going with what his best option is right now, and that's Eli.
Yes DG talks about avoiding QB hell and we are in the middle of it right now with an aging QB. No one said getting out of it was easy.
To draft a QB simply to say you have something new isn't the way to get it done, and DG knows that.
I would expect another 1-2 years of Eli as starter and who knows what sort of shape SB or the rest of the team will be in.
"The rest of the team" is going to mostly be draft picks selected either last year (7), this year (currently 12), or next year (currently 9). Stockpiling draft picks is the right move right now, as is using that stockpile to find the QB of the future.
Whether Eli starts games between now and then is of little consequence to properly rebuilding through the draft. Getting those picks right is going to sink or swim Gettleman.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
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is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
Why would they win sooner? His contract is up after this year, so right now we don't have a QB beyond 2019.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
I have no idea what DG is doing about the QB position other than what he has said publicly.
I sure hope he's looking into all those other options - but i don't know.
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is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
OK - that sounds great, but how do you know the Cardinals are taking offers right now or that they aren't asking for 3 first rounders? Beyond that, the Giants front office did its homework on Rosen last year and maybe they think he's a jackass.
That is QB Hell butt...
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
OK - let's say you cut him and go with Lauletta. When it becomes clear that Lauletta is not a starting caliber QB you are back where you started. You didn't build toward anything.
There is NO VALID/CORRECT/PERFECT/Insert-adjective-here WAY to replace an Eli at the end of his career. This is all just bullshit opinion from armchair QB fans (myself included).
Again I so hope Eli SLAYS it next year to at least tamp some of this shit down. Reese and regime failed Eli miserably in the back half of his career. It's pretty clear to my eyes the guy can still play IF HE HAS ADEQUATE blocking, which he hasn't had in a LONG time. That not only cost Eli the back half of his career, it also cost the jobs of a great HC and OC.
I know this guy can still play behind decent OL. And I want this team to be competitive REGARDLESS of who is behind center. The team needs to be rebuilt and there is no better option at QB on the roster right now. Nobody has any clue if we might even be working to get Murray (which would be MY choice). I am willing to give DG next year to show MARKED improvement to the roster and team competitiveness. Let's give the guy more than one season for crissakes and stop crying about the best Giants QB in my lifetime.
Pull on your big boy pants and root for your g*d*mn team you bunch of Nancies! lol
Anything beats paying what the NYG are paying for a guy with 8 wins in two years.
That's what 8 wins the past two years - they are paying a little over $23 mil this year and paid him $41 million the last two years before that....and DG is saying his being over paid is a crock?
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is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
Eli is not what he once was but he is still way better than Taylor, Bridgewater, and Fitz in my opinion. It's a one year deal too, so there is no commitment to Eli next year. Signing any of those other QB's would probably result in dead money next year and it does nothing to rebuild this roster. It's not like we aren't signing someone because of Eli (at least I don't think that is the case).
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
I don't disagree with most of this post, but IMO if they draft 1 of the QB's this year, I have no issue with that guy going into the season behind Eli. That's actually probably my preferred option vs. pinning hopes to next year's crop of QB's or trading for someone else's flawed QB option (like Rosen).
If they determine he has enough arm talent, I think Daniel Jones at 17 makes a lot of sense. He reminds me of Phillip Rivers, with more mobility. Or Wentz with less arm talent.
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
But this Eli decision is as dumb as it gets. And, I believe, an albatross to really move forward. It wreaks of sentimentality, naivety, delusion, fear, and cow-towing to a fan base that would rather watch Eli more than moving forward and building a long-term solution.
If DG really think Eli is the best solution available than you have to be dubious about him selecting the next QB.
Because after reading Shurmur's quotes last week about the ideal QB he wants to run his offense, it's crystal clear he wants to move on from Eli. Anything else out of his mouth is him just towing the company line...
Frankly, with the possible exceptions of Mike Francesa and Stephen A. Smith, most reporters would much prefer to be told an interesting lie rather than the boring truth. The boring truth does not sell copy.
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is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Agreed. It really is perplexing that people can't grasp this concept.
Some of us are actually thinking that Giants FO actually thinks he is the Long term solution.. Nothing that has been done so far shows otherwise.. They haven't asked Eli to take a pay cut. They didn't look for another QB to come in for a cheaper price.. They actually came up with the BS stat that Giants are the highest scoring team in NFC east as if it matters and BTW we are not the highest scoring offense in the NFC east.. Nothing Eli has done over the past 3 years justifies anything.. I have no trust that the Giants don't try to extend him next year..
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
I question if there's enough talent left in FA to get enough surplus value with the $17m compared to signing more modest guys. They can already afford a RT Remmers, Veldeheer, or Schraeder, there's not really a better option out there for more money.
Justin Houston is probably the guy in FA who could get the most $ in a 1 year deal, I'm not sure he moves the needle enough to be worth starting Lauletta - who isn't even a powerball ticket at this point. He's a scratch off.
Who do you think they should have signed? We should have learned from experience that it's best to sit out the first wave of FA because you always grossly overpay for marginal talent.
I firmly believe Gettleman and Shurmur were hired because they told Mara what he wanted to hear about Eli.
I was annoyed McAdoo benched Eli for Geno Smith and I still think he handled it the wrong way but I see where he was coming from. McAdoo probably reacted a little late actually, Manning was a punchline in the national conversation before that benching. But he was still two seasons (and counting) ahead of the current Giants management group.
Anyway nothing I can do about it so I just have to go along for the ride. Been watching Eli play ineffective football and throw devastating interceptions for years now, what’s another season (or two, or three)?
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing.
How? I would argue it's the worst outcome - unless it leads to SB.
It would lead to the same season ending evaluation - Eli stays. And the circular error just continues...
I hope the Giants plan is to have him mentor a rookie QB this year and the overpay in 2019 is a move made out of respect to a franchise legend. In that case, I'm okay with it. The arguments that spin it any other way ring hollow to me.
I will say Eli - bridge QB - young kid sounds more logical to me. Eli's era ends, you bring in a Tyrod Taylor type and still remain competitive. Everyone including the fans now know you've moved into a new era and truthfully many here would probably be less frustrated since our direction is more clear.
I do not think Eli and the young grasshopper on the same roster is a great idea, now they both have to answer questions about each other and it once again makes a situation that could be drama free kinda volatile.
While you can make the argument Eli may be better than a fringe street starter in terms of play, i think the benefits of moving on off the field favor bringing in a different stopgap.
Let Eli ride off into the sunset - let one chapter end and then start another.
I hope i am humbled and he surprises us this year.
Ok that makes more sense - and I think that's a somewhat fair position.
I personally disagree with it because I don't think Lauletta is a reasonable option (nor a vet placeholder like Fitzmagic). So I understand not cutting Eli if they didn't like the options available. We don't even know if Rosen is 100% available yet and I'd personally prefer our qb of the future to be more mobile.
With all the draft picks they've added the next 2 years, my #1 option by far is to find a guy they like and get him for a full 5 years at rookie scale. Keeping Eli to give that player time to get acclimated is a benefit in my mind. Especially if it ends up being Murray or Haskins since each had so few starts in CFB.
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Facts are inconvenient things. Peppers hasn't done much. As a former 1st round pick, he has to be chalked up at this point as "disappointing" which is why he was available in the first place.
Take a look at Peppers year this year. He was pretty damn productive. Williams used him very wisely.
And the draft next year also
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is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
So having 8 figures in cap space is more important than winning games? Because none of those guys are a lock for more than 5 wins next year.
We needed 3 pieces to the OL....so far we have one.....
12 picks? Most are after the 3rd round....have to be extremely lucky....or used them to package a move up.....
The smart move was to cut Eli and use the 17M either this year or next.....go full rebuild, and get a high draft choice next year....I don't mind losing, when you plan on losing....but when you tell us you are trying to win, and lose, that's a whole other ball game that we have been listening to for years....
This entire argument is based on one's evaluation of Eli's play right now. It is subjective. Because it's subjective no one is going to admit they're wrong or change their opinion.
Threads are not going to stop anytime soon. This will be in the discussion for the entire year 2019. Hoping it stops is futile. Buckle up, we're going to complain about every aspect of this for the entire year.
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
None of them wanted to play here. The player has to choose to play here when he’s a free agent. The money in a vacuum doesn’t mean shit.
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
Eli is the future.
Wait until the extension is announced for 3 yrs/$60M, $45 guaranteed.
I just feel it comin'...
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
What a crock. I am hoping we somehow end up with Kyler Murray.
But to say Eli's just done and completely holding the offense back without heavily factoring in the OL situation is absurd. And thinking he can still win with an actual NFL level OL is a justifiable position to hold. And dumping him at all costs is just goofy.
Well I was responding to your first sentence... "No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago..." Yada yada yada.
Start your own thread if you want to debate a different topic...
The NYG do not.
DG will lucky to tread water until he hands the job off to Kevin Abrams in 2-3 years.
Start your own thread if you want to debate a different topic...
Well maybe I'm missing something but I feel like my response is completely relevant to what you posted...