after a quick look last year, Gettleman didn't hold a press conference in March last year during free agency. He (and Reese before him) usually held the pre-draft press conference, where it is an exercise in a GM not actually answering anything (nor should they).
What is very noticeable since the Odell trade was how much the Giants have been putting out there "we have a plan". Hell, it was in the press release after the Odell trade.
Quote:
You can win while you build a roster, Gettleman said. We do have a plan, and this is a part of it.
Recently we had Bob Papa come on and also give more statements that Gettleman does actually have a plan.
A press conference now feels more like a damage control moment than anything of real substance.
I do, but I'm convinced it's constantly flashing 12:00 AM
Dammit....I really need to refresh before posting.
You laugh, but it's helpful to catch that Honeymooners episode where Ralph and Ed learn how to play golf, which is the perfect pick me up when everyone is being mean just because you traded one guy.
If it is, prepare not to see it, or to watch in some sort of glitchy, Max Headroom type manner.
I remember when I rode Nilay's case and was lambasted for it. Now, it seems that more and more are questioning how he has a job for a major sport franchise in an area of the country where there is no shortage of qualified candidates.
after a quick look last year, Gettleman didn't hold a press conference in March last year during free agency. He (and Reese before him) usually held the pre-draft press conference, where it is an exercise in a GM not actually answering anything (nor should they).
What is very noticeable since the Odell trade was how much the Giants have been putting out there "we have a plan". Hell, it was in the press release after the Odell trade.
Quote:
You can win while you build a roster, Gettleman said. We do have a plan, and this is a part of it.
Recently we had Bob Papa come on and also give more statements that Gettleman does actually have a plan.
A press conference now feels more like a damage control moment than anything of real substance.
So maybe I should change my gif to the following
What's the point of this? They have a PR department for damage control. There's no real reason to have a press conference - it is kind of unusual.
after a quick look last year, Gettleman didn't hold a press conference in March last year during free agency. He (and Reese before him) usually held the pre-draft press conference, where it is an exercise in a GM not actually answering anything (nor should they).
What is very noticeable since the Odell trade was how much the Giants have been putting out there "we have a plan". Hell, it was in the press release after the Odell trade.
Quote:
You can win while you build a roster, Gettleman said. We do have a plan, and this is a part of it.
Recently we had Bob Papa come on and also give more statements that Gettleman does actually have a plan.
A press conference now feels more like a damage control moment than anything of real substance.
So maybe I should change my gif to the following
What's the point of this? They have a PR department for damage control. There's no real reason to have a press conference - it is kind of unusual.
If he's going on Francesa, it feels like a PR full court press for Gettleman to come out himself and calm down the fan base that he's not a doddering old fool. I'm sure Mara got a shitload of angry letters and calls after Odell. You wait for the weekend for things to calm down and then address it. Like I said, Gettleman normally speaks at the end of season press conference and then before the draft. That he's doing this and then Francesa screams damage control. There is only so much that Pat Hanlon can do.
What's the point of this? They have a PR department for damage control.
You may not be familiar with Pat Hanlon, but if he's the guy delivering the message to the public, the franchise would be even more of a laughing stock. All he does is argue with fans on twitter and scream at people in the media who offer a negative opinion of the team.
That's exactly what it is and nothing more. It's the softest possible landing spot.
It would be meaningful if he actually sat down with someone who really spent time following the ups and downs about the team, not a cartoon character coasting through what should be his retirement.
to figure out what Mike wants done.. few weeks ago he got the order to trade OBJ.. and Bring in Tate.. Fat Mike will now tell him to trade 50% ownership of the team to get Luck in here after Eli opts to retire that may be this year or after his daughters are ready for the NFL..
They do get responsive. We saw that in full affect during Eli benching last year. A year later, they are following up a poor season with DG taking heat over Collins and Odell. Wonder how many letters have reached Mara in the past couple weeks.
This number one thing this team needs to do to start restoring confidence is land their franchise QB. Its the biggest question for the franchise. A year ago they elected to pass in favor of their hand of god/ generational running back and I think many are saying that's all fine, but we still need an answer for the most important position --here we are with two first round picks including one in the top 10, are we going to use them in some way, or punt on the QB again?
I said when DG was hired, the huge decisions were coach, the #2 pick, Odell contract, and Eli transition. We are still watching it all unfold, and the jury is very much out.
"for nothing" fail to mention that the Giants acquired Peppers to replace him. Not only is Peppers an upgrade over the Collins we saw the previous two seasons but the Giants will almost certainly receive a compensatory 3rd round pick for losing Collins.
There is no way to spin the miss on Collins. Thye could have dealt Collins to KC and acquired another pick and still made the exact same deal with Cleveland. Peppers doesn;t change the fact that they got nothing for Collins after declining an opportunity.
RE: I love how those bitching about letting Collins go
"for nothing" fail to mention that the Giants acquired Peppers to replace him. Not only is Peppers an upgrade over the Collins we saw the previous two seasons but the Giants will almost certainly receive a compensatory 3rd round pick for losing Collins.
Peppers hasn't been great in coverage his first two years. Let's hold off on calling him an upgrade.
No beatwriters have said a thing about this yet and its now 11a
What's the point of this? They have a PR department for damage control.
You may not be familiar with Pat Hanlon, but if he's the guy delivering the message to the public, the franchise would be even more of a laughing stock. All he does is argue with fans on twitter and scream at people in the media who offer a negative opinion of the team.
Pat Hanlon is one of the nicest most generous people I've ever met. I'm sure many on here can attest to that.
3m
Giants GM Dave Gettleman about to start a conference call with the local writers in a few minutes. Also, there will be conference calls with Kevin Seitler and Jabrill Peppers afterwards.
New York Giants
Verified account @Giants
43s44 seconds ago
"Talks were initiated by the Browns. John [Dorsey] knew we weren't just going to give Odell away...there was considerable back and forth." - GM Dave Gettleman on a conference call
@TomRock_Newsday
17s17 seconds ago
More
Gettleman: "This was purely a football decision... Odell was a tremendous talent making him a valuable asset... With football being the ultimate team sport, we turned that fact into three assets."
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
56s56 seconds ago
Gettleman: "This was purely a football decision... Odell was a tremendous talent making him a valuable asset... With football being the ultimate team sport, we turned that fact into three assets."
Ralph Vacchiano
Verified account @RVacchianoSNY
1m1 minute ago
What about "not quitting on talent"? Says Gettleman: "I believe that fully. But quitting on talent is when you cut a player or get marginal value in return. That did not happen here."
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
This is not a good take and so many people parrot it. Is an early 3rd basically a 2nd rounder?
Never understood why it's always the late picks that are "basically" the next round, but the early rounders from the next round are never basically the earlier round.
all depends on the picture you want to paint.
A 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick. Period. Yes, some are later than others, but none a "basically" 4th round picks.
#Giants Gettleman - "it's not my responsibility to tell you guys "media" what i'm doing"..."trust me. we got a plan. over time, you've got to be patient."
New York Giants
Verified account @Giants
37s37 seconds ago
"We have positions to address. Our plan is to address those positions, plain and simple. We'll do that through whatever means necessary." - GM Dave Gettleman
This is not a good take and so many people parrot it. Is an early 3rd basically a 2nd rounder?
Never understood why it's always the late picks that are "basically" the next round, but the early rounders from the next round are never basically the earlier round.
all depends on the picture you want to paint.
A 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick. Period. Yes, some are later than others, but none a "basically" 4th round picks.
It's the same thing as the bullshit Eli is a 39 year old QB and Odell is a 26 year old receiver - despite the fact Eli will be 38 for the entirety of the Season and Odell will be 27 mid season; but whatever serves the purpose of the argument is what people will go with.
#Giants Gettleman - "it's not my responsibility to tell you guys "media" what i'm doing"..."trust me. we got a plan. over time, you've got to be patient."
#Giants Gettleman - "it's not my responsibility to tell you guys "media" what i'm doing"..."trust me. we got a plan. over time, you've got to be patient."
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
He's used one trade to address one of these issues (running the ball), and will use the additional draft capital to address the other two issues. And Peppers is an improvement over Collins at a much lower cost. Reese either couldn't identify talent at the Line of Scrimmage or he didn't care about it.
It's not DG's job to tell them who he's going to draft or sign.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
This is not a good take and so many people parrot it. Is an early 3rd basically a 2nd rounder?
Never understood why it's always the late picks that are "basically" the next round, but the early rounders from the next round are never basically the earlier round.
all depends on the picture you want to paint.
A 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick. Period. Yes, some are later than others, but none a "basically" 4th round picks.
It's the 95th pick and there are a few conditional draft picks after ours. Is there a huge difference between this being a 3rd rounder and 4th round draft pick. NO.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman: "You're not gonna be able to give a Roman Coliseum thumbs up or thumbs down on this trade for a little bit." Have to see who the draft picks are and how Jabrill Peppers develops.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
43s44 seconds ago
Gettleman: "Did we have teams call on Landon (during the season)? Yes. But at that point in time it wasn't what I thought he was worth... I didn't think the value was there, so that's why we didn't do it."
the previous approach was not working, inclusive of many that believed we could patch our way to postseason with Eli. No we are at foreclosure discussion and this was necessary. Fortunately we have some pieces (Barkley, etc) but need more to actually field a competitive team.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
27s28 seconds ago
Gettleman: "You need a guy in the back end who can get everybody lined up and make all the adjustment calls. If you don;t have that, you can't function." Says Bethea is "an adult" and is "still effective."
This is not a good take and so many people parrot it. Is an early 3rd basically a 2nd rounder?
Never understood why it's always the late picks that are "basically" the next round, but the early rounders from the next round are never basically the earlier round.
all depends on the picture you want to paint.
A 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick. Period. Yes, some are later than others, but none a "basically" 4th round picks.
It's gotta be middle of the round for a X round pick to really be an X round pick, come on now!
So we really dealt OBJ and a 5th for Peppers, 1st, 3rd (but really a 4th) and a 4th (but really a 3rd)!
He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
What's the argument here that Beckham, Collins, or Harrison didn't play football first?
We sure do jump though the 'grit and toughness!!' hoops to blame individuals for management failure.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman: "You're not gonna be able to give a Roman Coliseum thumbs up or thumbs down on this trade for a little bit." Have to see who the draft picks are and how Jabrill Peppers develops.
I can't disagree with a lot of what Joey said. I'm looking forward to this Giants' season more than I have any other in 6 or 7 years. These Giants teams of the last few years have been my least favorite as a fan...just hugely unlikable.
That said, if you're going to keep Eli at $23M this year, you'd better win. 6-10 and Gettleman and Shurmur should both be shown the door.
I do think the odds of winning went up this past week. Cut out a lot of cancer.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
35s36 seconds ago
Gettleman on the pressure on Peppers: "Jabrill is a hell of a kid... He's coming here to play football. He'll have Antoine helping him out... He doesn't feel that pressure. He's just really excited about being a Giant."
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
This is not a good take and so many people parrot it. Is an early 3rd basically a 2nd rounder?
Never understood why it's always the late picks that are "basically" the next round, but the early rounders from the next round are never basically the earlier round.
all depends on the picture you want to paint.
A 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick. Period. Yes, some are later than others, but none a "basically" 4th round picks.
It's the 95th pick and there are a few conditional draft picks after ours. Is there a huge difference between this being a 3rd rounder and 4th round draft pick. NO.
but is there a difference? YES.
Would you rather have pick 95 or pick 103 (which is the first pick in the 4th round). Or worse, pick 119 which is Cleveland's 4th round pick.
that's 8 picks difference, and if you look at a normal round that's a 25% difference in the round. In the 3rd round, that can be a very big difference. 95 to 108 is 32 points on the draft value chart. Just because maybe your mind doesn't understand the difference is no reason to continually repeat this tired silly opinion.
Simple fact, it's a 3rd round pick even if you want to for some reason make it seem worse.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
I disagree. Last year he made a bunch of short sighted moves and we're going to be paying for it in the coming years. The realization that it wasn't a good team only dawned on them halfway through the season at which point they started the rebuild 5 months late.
I think the reason that the Giants have failed is because of a lack of talent. The culture argument is a red herring to me and is basically being used as justification to purge the roster. I would argue that we've done that to a detriment of the team with cuts that had greater ability than the people that were brought in because of their affiliation with the previous regime.
But that's an endless debate on this site, and I'm sure it's been stated more eloquently than me.
RE: I do enjoy the certainty with which people state that
It's the 95th pick and there are a few conditional draft picks after ours. Is there a huge difference between this being a 3rd rounder and 4th round draft pick. NO.
Yeah, those few picks are really nothing - oh but what happened when Jonathan Ogden was picked just ahead of the Giants and then the Giants got William Joseph? Extreme case yes. Point is, that 95 is still better than 96 or any other pick afterward.
At that point the talent differences are blurred, but it is still a 3rd round pick and maybe adding a 5th gets them to mid third round...
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
36s37 seconds ago
Gettleman: "I said it in Indianapoli sand I'll say it again: Once we got that o-line fixed (in second half of the year) look what we did on offense. This narrative that Eli is overpaid and can't play is a crock. I'm telling you!"
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Agree 100%
+2. Me too. I don't get the bashing, he's been here for 1 year. He had a really good draft and we improved. IMO for some its all, and only, about not picking a QB last year.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Kimberly Jones
Verified account @KimJonesSports
29s29 seconds ago
Gettleman: On offense, you gotta have a QB run out there....this narrative that Eli is overpaid & cant play is a crock. It really is. Defends way Eli finishes the season. There really wasnt a decision to make. #nyg
its a team sport, highlight reel plays don't always translate into wins, and the object of the game is still to get the wins, not necessarily to get on sportscenter
@KimJonesSports
47s48 seconds ago
More
Gettleman: On offense, you gotta have a QB run out there....this narrative that Eli is overpaid & cant play is a crock. It really is. Defends way Eli finishes the season. There really wasnt a decision to make. #nyg
Peppers is 2 years younger, less injury prone, had a good season and was much improved from his rookie year. He's 23 years old and under control for a few seasons. Even if they are the same exact player (which they aren't), why the hell would you not want to have Peppers replace Collins for roughly 12M less at that position? My guess is they think he can be better than Collins and be the swiss army knife that Collins couldn't be because of coverage issues. Peppers has played corner as well.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
36s37 seconds ago
Gettleman: "I said it in Indianapoli sand I'll say it again: Once we got that o-line fixed (in second half of the year) look what we did on offense. This narrative that Eli is overpaid and can't play is a crock. I'm telling you!"
Kimberly Jones
Verified account @KimJonesSports
29s29 seconds ago
Gettleman: On offense, you gotta have a QB run out there....this narrative that Eli is overpaid & cant play is a crock. It really is. Defends way Eli finishes the season. There really wasnt a decision to make. #nyg
Glad to see we are going the Dan Marino route with this.
Hopefully, we don't turn into the Miami Dolphins whenever Eli hangs them up.
RE: I do enjoy the certainty with which people state that
Jabrill fucking Peppers, who has done virtually nothing in two years in the league, is such an upgrade on Collins.
He didn't play deep safety much at Michigan and had to learn the position, which he has done. And he's faster and cheaper than Collins. Unlike Collins he can actually cover TEs.
They do get responsive. We saw that in full affect during Eli benching last year. A year later, they are following up a poor season with DG taking heat over Collins and Odell. Wonder how many letters have reached Mara in the past couple weeks.
This number one thing this team needs to do to start restoring confidence is land their franchise QB. Its the biggest question for the franchise. A year ago they elected to pass in favor of their hand of god/ generational running back and I think many are saying that's all fine, but we still need an answer for the most important position --here we are with two first round picks including one in the top 10, are we going to use them in some way, or punt on the QB again?
I said when DG was hired, the huge decisions were coach, the #2 pick, Odell contract, and Eli transition. We are still watching it all unfold, and the jury is very much out.
If the braintrust says none of these guys that are available are worth it (but perhaps the 2020 guys are), then you plow through full steam ahead and let the fans gripe. Like Parcells said, if you listen to the fans all the time, you'll join them.
Jabrill fucking Peppers, who has done virtually nothing in two years in the league, is such an upgrade on Collins.
It may simply be a wash, and that's fine considering the cost savings. We also have a better duo at Safety now than prior to letting Collins walk, so there's that too. Peppers also can help as a returner.
So nothing is certain, but if you are able to be even the least bit objective hear you can see that there's a lot to look forward to going this route, and this is coming from someone who really liked Collins.
its a team sport, highlight reel plays don't always translate into wins, and the object of the game is still to get the wins, not necessarily to get on sportscenter
Agreed, it's not just about highlights. But it's not like people care that much to look into the non-highlights, as there are still people trying to look for ways to accuse Beckham of questionable effort.
Plenty of tape out there of him run blocking his ass off. It's just easier to flap lips about diva nonsense.
And anyone suggesting Collins wasn't playing hard or wasn't tough is a fool. He played football through a torn labrum last year.
They do get responsive. We saw that in full affect during Eli benching last year. A year later, they are following up a poor season with DG taking heat over Collins and Odell. Wonder how many letters have reached Mara in the past couple weeks.
This number one thing this team needs to do to start restoring confidence is land their franchise QB. Its the biggest question for the franchise. A year ago they elected to pass in favor of their hand of god/ generational running back and I think many are saying that's all fine, but we still need an answer for the most important position --here we are with two first round picks including one in the top 10, are we going to use them in some way, or punt on the QB again?
I said when DG was hired, the huge decisions were coach, the #2 pick, Odell contract, and Eli transition. We are still watching it all unfold, and the jury is very much out.
Thats just it, the number one thing this franchise needs to do is WIN. The qb narrative is out of control. Youre trying to tell me if the giants go 9-7 in 2019 with eli throwing for 4300 yards, 25 tds and 12 ints that the fan base and stupid fucking media wont calm down a bit?
RE: RE: I do enjoy the certainty with which people state that
#Giants Gettleman - "it's not my responsibility to tell you guys "media" what i'm doing"..."trust me. we got a plan. over time, you've got to be patient."
Agreed - but his earlier comment about "having holes" and collecting draft capital does highlight that they are going to plug holes via the draft/. Maybe the first few picks are best player availble, but after that they will be filling needs.
its a team sport, highlight reel plays don't always translate into wins, and the object of the game is still to get the wins, not necessarily to get on sportscenter
Agreed, it's not just about highlights. But it's not like people care that much to look into the non-highlights, as there are still people trying to look for ways to accuse Beckham of questionable effort.
Plenty of tape out there of him run blocking his ass off. It's just easier to flap lips about diva nonsense.
And anyone suggesting Collins wasn't playing hard or wasn't tough is a fool. He played football through a torn labrum last year.
People arent questioning eithers effort (well maybe OBJ supposedly sitting out the last 4games healthy) but the point is simple with Beckham - his act wore thin. The staff and ownership had enough with him. They felt he was negative on the team. If thats the case, then its a wrap. He is a diva WR. Much like Owens, Moss, Ocho Cinco, Dez, etc.... sometimes their act was thin.
I think the majority of posters loved Collins all out play. I did. But thefact was he was going to get paid 14 million a year and was one dimensional with injury problems. Sometimes you have to know when to say no.
On offense, you gotta have a QB run out there....this narrative that Eli is overpaid & cant play is a crock. It really is. Defends way Eli finishes the season. There really wasnt a decision to make.
This is the perfect collision of insanity and predictability.
RE: RE: I do enjoy the certainty with which people state that
if you are able to be even the least bit objective
Yeah...I don't think this is possible for Greg. Its gotten to the point where you scroll down and the second you see his name you know its going to be an opportunity to shit on something.
On offense, you gotta have a QB run out there....this narrative that Eli is overpaid & cant play is a crock. It really is. Defends way Eli finishes the season. There really wasnt a decision to make.
This is the perfect collision of insanity and predictability.
Yet you have been the one that the Giants shouldnt take a QB this year.
I can't disagree with a lot of what Joey said. I'm looking forward to this Giants' season more than I have any other in 6 or 7 years. These Giants teams of the last few years have been my least favorite as a fan...just hugely unlikable.
That said, if you're going to keep Eli at $23M this year, you'd better win. 6-10 and Gettleman and Shurmur should both be shown the door.
I do think the odds of winning went up this past week. Cut out a lot of cancer.
In that scenario, Shurmur probably goes but DG will stay. I'm still not sure what the alternative to Eli is at this point, if you cut him you are forced to pick a QB. And what Free Agent is out there to be signed with the cap savings? Better to keep that savings on the books for 2021.
if you are able to be even the least bit objective
Yeah...I don't think this is possible for Greg. Its gotten to the point where you scroll down and the second you see his name you know its going to be an opportunity to shit on something.
Why? The offense looked good at the end of the year.
Because one year doesn't carry into the next. And it ignores the fact that the offense was an atrocity for most of the season. It also ignores that the Giants lost the last three games of the season regardless...two of those at home, and one via shutout.
Last year was an abysmal failure. I wouldn't be citing it at all if I were Gettleman or Shurmur, and they've been doing just that all offseason.
On offense, you gotta have a QB run out there....this narrative that Eli is overpaid & cant play is a crock. It really is. Defends way Eli finishes the season. There really wasnt a decision to make.
This is the perfect collision of insanity and predictability.
Yet you have been the one that the Giants shouldnt take a QB this year.
my opinion of him gets worse. Comes across as a complete buffoon. He just loves changing the narrative to suit whatever dimwitted point he's trying make.
Peppers cap hit next 4 years: $7.5M total
Collins cap hit next 4 years: $62M total
Peppers is a MASSIVE upgrade over Collins at those figures.
Well Peppers is only signed for 2 years, though year 3 will hopefully be his option ~$10M. Still a bargain relative to Collins and should provide comparable performance at a minimum.
that the OLine has everything to do with the success of this offense, as shown in the 2nd half of last year. Why does it have to have any other meaning? What's so wrong with that?
Peppers cap hit next 4 years: $7.5M total
Collins cap hit next 4 years: $62M total
Peppers is a MASSIVE upgrade over Collins at those figures.
Well Peppers is only signed for 2 years, though year 3 will hopefully be his option ~$10M. Still a bargain relative to Collins and should provide comparable performance at a minimum.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Agree 100%
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
Peppers cap hit next 4 years: $7.5M total
Collins cap hit next 4 years: $62M total
Peppers is a MASSIVE upgrade over Collins at those figures.
Well Peppers is only signed for 2 years, though year 3 will hopefully be his option ~$10M. Still a bargain relative to Collins and should provide comparable performance at a minimum.
Jabrill fucking Peppers, who has done virtually nothing in two years in the league, is such an upgrade on Collins.
And no one is surprised to know you feel that way either.
Facts are inconvenient things. Peppers hasn't done much. As a former 1st round pick, he has to be chalked up at this point as "disappointing" which is why he was available in the first place.
Collins was an All-Pro and 2 or 3 time Pro Bowler who spent a lot of time covering up for the dreck at one corner spot and free safety and in the process covering up for the mistakes of others. It didn't take long for Gettlemen to throw 3+ million guaranteed a 32+ year old safety rather than put up with another season by Curtis Riley.
lately, you guys are gonna bitch. Anything he does, you're going to disagree with. And then if he said nothing, you'd be bitching about that too. It's just the way it is.
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
You know, this comment is instructive. There are a whole bunch of people for whom this is paramount, much more important than the Giants not being a laughingstock. That, and making sure Eli Manning is Quarterback for Life.
Gettleman's awesome - he pisses off the right people and refuses to address the decline of Eli's play! Win-win even if the team is going nowhere.
lately, you guys are gonna bitch. Anything he does, you're going to disagree with. And then if he said nothing, you'd be bitching about that too. It's just the way it is.
lately, you guys are gonna bitch. Anything he does, you're going to disagree with. And then if he said nothing, you'd be bitching about that too. It's just the way it is.
lately, you guys are gonna bitch. Anything he does, you're going to disagree with. And then if he said nothing, you'd be bitching about that too. It's just the way it is.
No, that's not really fair. I've given him a lot of credit for the moves made over the past week.
But that doesn't undo the brutal first year he had with this team, and it doesn't make it OK to keep citing last year as though it were a sign of upcoming success. 2019 will be its own animal...stop trying to sell us that 2018 was something other than a total nightmare.
RE: RE: RE: I do enjoy the certainty with which people state that
Facts are inconvenient things. Peppers hasn't done much. As a former 1st round pick, he has to be chalked up at this point as "disappointing" which is why he was available in the first place.
Take a look at Peppers year this year. He was pretty damn productive. Williams used him very wisely.
He got overpaid. No argument there. The problem is not realizing that he was likely going to get an offer for more than the Giants were willing to pay and making a deal last year for him. THAT'S what was foolish and short-sighted.
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
You know, this comment is instructive. There are a whole bunch of people for whom this is paramount, much more important than the Giants not being a laughingstock. That, and making sure Eli Manning is Quarterback for Life.
Gettleman's awesome - he pisses off the right people and refuses to address the decline of Eli's play! Win-win even if the team is going nowhere.
He might have his faults, but DG has 100% addressed the OL which is arguably the biggest reason behind Eli's poor play. And I would've had no problem moving on from Eli last year.
Hell, you can argue that fixing the OL is paramount to ensuring the next QB has a chance to succeed.
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
You know, this comment is instructive. There are a whole bunch of people for whom this is paramount, much more important than the Giants not being a laughingstock. That, and making sure Eli Manning is Quarterback for Life.
Gettleman's awesome - he pisses off the right people and refuses to address the decline of Eli's play! Win-win even if the team is going nowhere.
Please, he could have gotten three 1st rounders and you would have bitched and told him to go watch "I dream of Jeannie" for the 10th time.
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
You know, this comment is instructive. There are a whole bunch of people for whom this is paramount, much more important than the Giants not being a laughingstock. That, and making sure Eli Manning is Quarterback for Life.
Gettleman's awesome - he pisses off the right people and refuses to address the decline of Eli's play! Win-win even if the team is going nowhere.
I believe he's addressed it. They didn't restructure, and right now there isn't an extension. We will know more come draft time on how he feels about the replacement being there this year.
What exactly do you want him to say prior to the draft? I'm genuinely curious what he could realistically say that would satisfy you.
Jabrill fucking Peppers, who has done virtually nothing in two years in the league, is such an upgrade on Collins.
And no one is surprised to know you feel that way either.
Facts are inconvenient things. Peppers hasn't done much. As a former 1st round pick, he has to be chalked up at this point as "disappointing" which is why he was available in the first place.
Collins was an All-Pro and 2 or 3 time Pro Bowler who spent a lot of time covering up for the dreck at one corner spot and free safety and in the process covering up for the mistakes of others. It didn't take long for Gettlemen to throw 3+ million guaranteed a 32+ year old safety rather than put up with another season by Curtis Riley.
Its great how you go into this big defense about why Collins performance hasn't been what it was since 2016, and yet all you can say about Peppers is that he hasn't done much. Thats probably because you don't know anything about how he was used and are just looking at his statistics.
and some of you do not even realize what he is doing or why he says what he does.
When he talks about something that was in the past, he is more likely to give an honest comment.
When he talks about something that could happen in the future, every word will be calculated in a way to..
A. not tip his hand on what the real plan is
B. not lose leverage in a potential future deal
So, when some of you get triggered by a comment about Eli for example.. what benefit does it do to say anything other than something that shows total confidence in Eli? In fact, if he did otherwise, I would have a serious problem with that.
Look back at the OBJ comments from months ago. He said the plan was to keep Odell and you dont give up on talent. The simpletons now are freaking out "but but but he said..." The guy would have lost some leverage in a potential future negotiation if he came out and said "yeah we are seriously considering trading Odell."
(1) He's not afraid of change;
(2) He needs more than one year to be evaluated;
(3) In all fairness, I think he should be given a minimum of three years;
(4) But, if there is no sign of overall team performance in 2019, then I think he's on very shaky ground;
(5) There has got to be forward "progress" in 2019; not a play-off spot, but the general feeling that things are moving in the right direction.
(6) If by the end of 2020 Season, there isn't a positive development in the team's direction, Gettleman will be dropped, fired, kicked out the door.
(7) And, so too, the Head Coach.
(8) Bottom line, they both have two more years to show us what they've got!
and some of you do not even realize what he is doing or why he says what he does.
When he talks about something that was in the past, he is more likely to give an honest comment.
When he talks about something that could happen in the future, every word will be calculated in a way to..
A. not tip his hand on what the real plan is
B. not lose leverage in a potential future deal
So, when some of you get triggered by a comment about Eli for example.. what benefit does it do to say anything other than something that shows total confidence in Eli? In fact, if he did otherwise, I would have a serious problem with that.
Look back at the OBJ comments from months ago. He said the plan was to keep Odell and you dont give up on talent. The simpletons now are freaking out "but but but he said..." The guy would have lost some leverage in a potential future negotiation if he came out and said "yeah we are seriously considering trading Odell."
Youve been too positive of late. That in itself is scaring me..:)
and some of you do not even realize what he is doing or why he says what he does.
When he talks about something that was in the past, he is more likely to give an honest comment.
When he talks about something that could happen in the future, every word will be calculated in a way to..
A. not tip his hand on what the real plan is
B. not lose leverage in a potential future deal
So, when some of you get triggered by a comment about Eli for example.. what benefit does it do to say anything other than something that shows total confidence in Eli? In fact, if he did otherwise, I would have a serious problem with that.
Look back at the OBJ comments from months ago. He said the plan was to keep Odell and you dont give up on talent. The simpletons now are freaking out "but but but he said..." The guy would have lost some leverage in a potential future negotiation if he came out and said "yeah we are seriously considering trading Odell."
This narrative that Elis overpaid and cant play is a crock. With the way we ended the season, and what he's making, there really wasn't a decision to make."
Ummm....what in the f***ing f***?
RE: RE: Dave Gettleman is playing a media game here..
Youve been too positive of late. That in itself is scaring me..:)
LOL !! No... I am not positive. I am just not going to be negative until I see more. We dont know how the trade will play out yet. Not only does it depend upon the draft picks but also how Peppers and Odell perform over the next couple of years. We also do not know what this final roster is going to be yet for this upcoming season.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Agree 100%
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
This narrative that Eli is overpaid and can't play is a crock.
1000% correct
Maybe not 1000% correct? I mean that statement is also him covering his ass a bit, no? I'm behind his moves and an Eli supporter, but it would have been nice to work out a 'restructured' deal...lower the cap hit, extend it so when it comes time to cut bait it makes it easier on the giants.....
this whole no plan/no vision thing is such a load of bullshit. They have a plan - they just don't spell it out for everyone to hear, and it doesn't jive with what the media or fans want to hear.
Last year we thought we good plug some gaps and compete for a playoff run. we were wrong.
instead of pretending he came in here with a plan and its evolving as envisioned.
Hitdog, I think we need to make a distinction here. He probably should have said..
1. Our plan has not changed
2. The first year did not turn out as expected but we are going through the process and sticking to the plan.
This means the personnel was not what they expected... combination of people who were here + a few he brought in.
After listening to him for a year,I've come to the
conclusion the main reason he's here is he makes John Mara comfortable.I can't help but think if Louis Riddick had become the GM,we'd already be on our way to rebuilding,w/a possible contention by next season. I'll give Gettleman one more season to right this before I believe we're headed towards a late 1960's-70's run. John is slowly morphing into the bad Wellington. Everyone remembers Wellington as the grandfatherly head of the Giants but most don't realize how badly he fucked them up.It took Rozelle coming in,demanding Wellington name George Young as his GM to help the Giants finally become competitive again!Gettleman's "rebuilding" so far are band aids all around! The reason he won't tell the press "his plan", is because he continues to try to figure it out on the fly.......
Louis Riddick works for ESPN, and hasn't been hired by anyone lately, let alone us. This myth that he would be our savior is BS. I'm sure if he was some great GM in the making, he would have been hired by now.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
After listening to him for a year,I've come to the
TheMick7 : 11:56 am : link : reply
conclusion the main reason he's here is he makes John Mara comfortable.I can't help but think if Louis Riddick had become the GM,we'd already be on our way to rebuilding,w/a possible contention by next season.
Meanwhile, Louis Riddick works for ESPN for the last 6 years.
That 4 and out against Dallas with the game on the line
was the epitome of our offense in the second half-- Clueless, just like the GM. He must be counting the two pick sixes in our numbers or ignoring the four second string or worse QBs that gave us good field position. What a moron. No wonder they ran him out of Carolina.
Louis Riddick works for ESPN, and hasn't been hired by anyone lately, let alone us. This myth that he would be our savior is BS. I'm sure if he was some great GM in the making, he would have been hired by now.
Perhaps,but you've followed the NFL long enough to know it's an old boys network (especially w/the Giants) & Gettleman was one of those old boys that Mara was comfortable with!
After listening to him for a year,I've come to the
TheMick7 : 11:56 am : link : reply
conclusion the main reason he's here is he makes John Mara comfortable.I can't help but think if Louis Riddick had become the GM,we'd already be on our way to rebuilding,w/a possible contention by next season.
Meanwhile, Louis Riddick works for ESPN for the last 6 years.
were this universally mocked by the national media.
-Blindly sticking with Eli
-Old man Gettleman still thinks its the 60s
-No plan/no vision
Its amazing to me, I really hope Gettleman proves everyone wrong.
Unfortunately, don't expect it to stop anytime soon. This guy is getting absolutely killed nationally and locally in print media, online media, and on sports radio. The guys on ESPN Radio NY (Canty, Rothenberg, DiPietro) eviscerate him every damn day. If they NYG get off to a bad start next year, you might want to hide under a rock.
were this universally mocked by the national media.
-Blindly sticking with Eli
-Old man Gettleman still thinks its the 60s
-No plan/no vision
Its amazing to me, I really hope Gettleman proves everyone wrong.
I do to and not for Gettlemans sake, as he seems to be a bit douchy too but for the sake of the Giants. I mean, does why does the media think its time to cut Eli and really gives Big (scumbag) Ben and Phil (chokey) Rivers a pass? Do they think its in DG and the Giants best interest to let the media in on 'the plan'? Does that even come close to reality? On the other hand his cockiness and some of his statements really seem to be unnecessarily condescending towards the media and fans...
I like most of what DG said today except the part about Eli. It makes me really question his ability to evaluate the most important position on the field. I did not see what he saw the second half of the season. I saw an average QB playing against bad teams or teams that were playing for nothing that was neither consistent or clutch. He complained of a narrative but I think he is running with the narrative that Eli is fine everything else was broken.
I feel that he should be judged on this. If the 2019 NYGs are no better than the 2018 NYGs, DG should go. If the 2019 Eli is no better than 2018 Eli and there is no QB of the of the future on the roster to evaluate, DG should go. If he is right about both Eli and the Giants, extend the motherfucker and we should not doubt him anytime time soon. He made bold statements, I like that. He should be held accountable to those statements.
I want him to be correct so badly it hurts. Nothing would make me happier than the Giants and Eli doing well in 2019. It would be even better if OBJ and the Browns struggle.
After listening to him for a year,I've come to the
TheMick7 : 11:56 am : link : reply
conclusion the main reason he's here is he makes John Mara comfortable.I can't help but think if Louis Riddick had become the GM,we'd already be on our way to rebuilding,w/a possible contention by next season.
Meanwhile, Louis Riddick works for ESPN for the last 6 years.
That's true but in a Catch-22 league where it's like a 16 year old trying to get his first job,"We can't hire you w/o experience" "But,how can I get experience if you won't hire me?" John Mara always goes w/comfort especially after the McAdoo debacle!
After listening to him for a year,I've come to the
TheMick7 : 11:56 am : link : reply
conclusion the main reason he's here is he makes John Mara comfortable.I can't help but think if Louis Riddick had become the GM,we'd already be on our way to rebuilding,w/a possible contention by next season.
Meanwhile, Louis Riddick works for ESPN for the last 6 years.
They do get responsive. We saw that in full affect during Eli benching last year. A year later, they are following up a poor season with DG taking heat over Collins and Odell. Wonder how many letters have reached Mara in the past couple weeks.
This number one thing this team needs to do to start restoring confidence is land their franchise QB. Its the biggest question for the franchise. A year ago they elected to pass in favor of their hand of god/ generational running back and I think many are saying that's all fine, but we still need an answer for the most important position --here we are with two first round picks including one in the top 10, are we going to use them in some way, or punt on the QB again?
I said when DG was hired, the huge decisions were coach, the #2 pick, Odell contract, and Eli transition. We are still watching it all unfold, and the jury is very much out.
Thats just it, the number one thing this franchise needs to do is WIN. The qb narrative is out of control. Youre trying to tell me if the giants go 9-7 in 2019 with eli throwing for 4300 yards, 25 tds and 12 ints that the fan base and stupid fucking media wont calm down a bit?
We are in the offseason now. We are talking from the context of team building. Of course it's about winning. The question is how do you build for sustained success.
(1) He's not afraid of change;
(2) He needs more than one year to be evaluated;
(3) In all fairness, I think he should be given a minimum of three years;
(4) But, if there is no sign of overall team performance in 2019, then I think he's on very shaky ground;
(5) There has got to be forward "progress" in 2019; not a play-off spot, but the general feeling that things are moving in the right direction.
(6) If by the end of 2020 Season, there isn't a positive development in the team's direction, Gettleman will be dropped, fired, kicked out the door.
(7) And, so too, the Head Coach.
(8) Bottom line, they both have two more years to show us what they've got!
Agree on all counts.
I keep saying that we are all frustrated since 2012, having not won anywhere near consistently, but DG can't worry about that. He's not worried about past failures in as much as he's got to follow his plan. Last year was rocky. On to the second year.
Next two years are huge, esp with the OBJ trade in the books.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Once again confirming that Joey is my all time favorite football poster on this site.
He might have his faults, but DG has 100% addressed the OL which is arguably the biggest reason behind Eli's poor play. And I would've had no problem moving on from Eli last year.
Hell, you can argue that fixing the OL is paramount to ensuring the next QB has a chance to succeed.
He certainly has *tried*. I do think that Zeitler is going to help, but last year's OL had a lot of 'try' and not a lot of success. We'll have to wait and see if that improves this year, or maybe there was a reason the Browns decided to move on from Zeitler (beyond having a younger player waiting in the wings to move up).
I don't know how you say Eli played well once they got the o line
Quote:so Collins was a me first type player? Please
In comment 14344760 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Agree 100%
+2. Me too. I don't get the bashing, he's been here for 1 year. He had a really good draft and we improved. IMO for some its all, and only, about not picking a QB last year.
I'm as skeptical as any, but the media is mostly effing clueless. I'm not sure what their opinion is some sort of bar for how good these decisions are.
A year ago the market determined that OBJ was worth $18MM per year. Now we get that money back (except for the dead money loss this year) plus a first round pick, a second round pick, and Peppers (plus turned a 5th round pick into a fourth rounder).
If Gettleman can turn that haul into 4 or 5 quality starters -- and I think he can -- this trade was an absolute steal for the Giants.
RE: RE: RE: I never remember a time when the Giants..
were this universally mocked by the national media.
-Blindly sticking with Eli
who says we are blindly sticking with Eli? please elaborate
Referencing the Philly game last year as a reason. Referencing the second half this year as a reason.
That seems like blindly sticking with Eli to me.
So what would your response have been? Please choose one or make up another if you dont like these choices..
1. Bench Eli for Lauletta who clearly is not the answer and NOT better than Eli.
2. Make a comment that Eli is not in our future (which is what people here want him to say).
3. Cut Eli before we owed him the salary bonus AND before we had a replacement. Then, the no plan talk would have been at an all time high.
4. Signed Fitzpatrick who is 36 yrs old
So, where is the blind part? I just want to know what DG should have done thus far about Eli. What would have been your plan?
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
A year ago the market determined that OBJ was worth $18MM per year. Now we get that money back (except for the dead money loss this year) plus a first round pick, a second round pick, and Peppers (plus turned a 5th round pick into a fourth rounder).
If Gettleman can turn that haul into 4 or 5 quality starters -- and I think he can -- this trade was an absolute steal for the Giants.
Did the market determine that or did the Giants along with OBJ's agents? I'm not naive enough to think that there weren't some conversations with teams, but at no point was he freely available to be signed elsewhere.
Further - that absolute 'steal' could have been had prior to re-signing him, without the $23M cap hit. That kind of kills the return on the deal.
And that was WITHOUT Beckham for the final four games.
Last year we thought we good plug some gaps and compete for a playoff run. we were wrong.
instead of pretending he came in here with a plan and its evolving as envisioned.
See, I don't understand this logic. What else did you expect him to do? He eliminated like half the roster, and jettisoned dead weight. What else, seriously, are people expecting that he should have done? Are people really that hurt that we sucked again? Shouldn't that have been expected when we have had shitty drafts for 10 years, another new GM and a brand new coaching staff and new schemes? And did you want him to pull a decent OL out of his ass day one?
As stupid as that 'Mara listens to Francesa' report sounds
Over the last 2 years they've done exactly what Francesa has rambled on about on his show. Almost completely everything he has rambled about. Even right down to the type of compensation they should be seeking in trades. And now I see they're putting Gettleman on the program this afternoon when there's no reason to.
As moronic a take as I first viewed that report to be, I'm going to start believing it soon if the Giants don't give me any reason not to.
Last year we thought we good plug some gaps and compete for a playoff run. we were wrong.
instead of pretending he came in here with a plan and its evolving as envisioned.
See, I don't understand this logic. What else did you expect him to do? He eliminated like half the roster, and jettisoned dead weight. What else, seriously, are people expecting that he should have done? Are people really that hurt that we sucked again? Shouldn't that have been expected when we have had shitty drafts for 10 years, another new GM and a brand new coaching staff and new schemes? And did you want him to pull a decent OL out of his ass day one?
You could start with an accurate assessment of the situation. If it wasn't possible to turn it around and win starting on day 1 - don't overpay for Solder, Omameh and Stewart. That would have been a really good start.
Over the last 2 years they've done exactly what Francesa has rambled on about on his show. Almost completely everything he has rambled about. Even right down to the type of compensation they should be seeking in trades. And now I see they're putting Gettleman on the program this afternoon when there's no reason to.
As moronic a take as I first viewed that report to be, I'm going to start believing it soon if the Giants don't give me any reason not to.
Correlation not causation, but it's scary to think of it that way. I think it's just a lot more likely that the Giants and Francesa are of like mind.
And the latter was fucking stupid enough to think he should have been offered a shot at managing the Yankees.
we haven't even drafted yet and he's just what we need after Reese and Ross. We were in the stone age with them.
You have a very interesting definition of the word "terrific"
FA was up and down, but I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft. If he has the same (or close) caliber of draft this year, I'll be doing backflips.
So what would your response have been? Please choose one or make up another if you dont like these choices..
1. Bench Eli for Lauletta who clearly is not the answer and NOT better than Eli.
2. Make a comment that Eli is not in our future (which is what people here want him to say).
3. Cut Eli before we owed him the salary bonus AND before we had a replacement. Then, the no plan talk would have been at an all time high.
4. Signed Fitzpatrick who is 36 yrs old
So, where is the blind part? I just want to know what DG should have done thus far about Eli. What would have been your plan?
The fact that he said there wasn't even a decision to make is the blindly part.
RE: RE: RE: DG is doing a terrific job, for god sakes
we haven't even drafted yet and he's just what we need after Reese and Ross. We were in the stone age with them.
You have a very interesting definition of the word "terrific"
FA was up and down, but I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft. If he has the same (or close) caliber of draft this year, I'll be doing backflips.
The draft was great. I'm not as sold on Carter as everyone else is, but if he works out it will be an excellent draft getting 4 starters.
Yeah, Im not saying Im on board with the OBJ trade
Not at all. Hes been the only reason to even watch the Giants. Loved him here.
But this is DGs second season. Im not writing him off already because he doesnt live up to my narrative. Its possible that he knows better than me. (Id been bracing myself for him to replace Eli, and I was ready for that. That was my conclusion: DG knows better than me.)
Right now, Im keeping the faith... with fingers crossed. Lets see what happens in the draft.
I'm as skeptical as any, but the media is mostly effing clueless. I'm not sure what their opinion is some sort of bar for how good these decisions are.
Eli for anyone that doesnt have a blinding bias showed late last year with just passable (not even above average protection) he can still be an effective QB. And 3 of the last 4 games in which we scored 40, 27 and 35 pts were WITHOUT ObJ.
Eli isnt a guy who has take a ton of inuries robbing him of his ability to play QB. His arm may not be as strong as it was before, but it is strong enough and he can still hit the tough routes.
RE: RE: I don't know how you say Eli played well once they got the o line
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
You made your feelings plain in your first sentence. I think the rest of the piece presents the most optimistic view of the possible results.
Our own history in looking for "character" players has been, to put it kindly, checkered (remember the "all team captains" concept-how'd that work out?). The guys we got rid of weren't criminals or drug addicts, and it is hard not to see some of this as a "get off my lawn" attitude by the owner and his obedient GM or trying to cover for a weak HC with zero track record who has no influence in the locker room or the FO. It is also not unreasonable to discount some of the most optimistic view and see the S received as a total disappointment to his old team, the "tenacious" receiver as being a 9 yard average, lost a step, duplicative of what we already have, and or that what we have seen in Hill and Carter is what we get.
The "have a plan" people are mainly concerned with qb. I don't care what the plan is or what it is supposed to be being more concerned with improving the talent level and speed on the team. So far, I see a step-forward step-back. We got a guard at the expense of getting worse at wideout and improved on D by getting rid of Riley but at the expense of getting worse at the other safety position and at DE.
So, would that your faith is rewarded and things work out as you say, but I can understand those who are having a crisis of faith.
with doing a presser at this time is you can be only so honest and in fact you really want to be quite dishonest so I'd say judge DG on what he does and not what he says.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
RE: RE: I don't know how you say Eli played well once they got the o line
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
with doing a presser at this time is you can be only so honest and in fact you really want to be quite dishonest so I'd say judge DG on what he does and not what he says.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
with doing a presser at this time is you can be only so honest and in fact you really want to be quite dishonest so I'd say judge DG on what he does and not what he says.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
Or they know they know they don't have a better option right now (in free agency). Lauletta stunk last year. He may develop but he also may be a bust. Rosen, Haskins, Murray, etc... they are not on this team right now. And they may not even be viable options.
I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft.
Meh. Barkley obviously played well, but the fact that the team was still atrocious just lends more credence to the fact that RB is not a position that has much impact on wins and losses.
Hernandez was a good pick, improved a good bit over the course of the season.
Carter has some promise but didn't do a whole helluva lot last year beyond an occasional flash. He has a lot to prove.
People make a LOT of hay out of Hill and for the life of me I don't understand why. Yeah, he had 3 sacks against the Bears. Swell. In the other 15 games, he was an adequate starter on a horrendous defense. Maybe he's an average starter at the position. Not exactly someone to turn cartwheels over at this point.
Lauletta? Lulz.
It was basically a lost season for McIntosh. Only played six games and didn't do much when he did play.
So, in total, he picked one legit star at a position of relative unimportance, one solid interior lineman, one edge rusher who flashed occasional promise but didn't get all that much PT despite having total dreck playing ahead of him, one DT who might be an average NFL starter, and one DT who is a total mystery. Oh, and a joke of a QB.
It doesn't seem to me like the Giants have actually looked to upgrade on Eli (from a production AND cost standpoint).
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
My hope is that this is true. It is very possible be that those stats are better because some of the teams we were playing against were bad or not playing for anything in the second half. As long as we hold Gettleman accountable if he is wrong I am good. It is too important to get a pass over being incorrect in your evaluation of the QB on your team.
with doing a presser at this time is you can be only so honest and in fact you really want to be quite dishonest so I'd say judge DG on what he does and not what he says.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
We scored over 30 4 times in the last 8 games, including hitting 40 points once.
We rushed the ball for 1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry, and 128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
That's not good offense?
Of course not, we played backup QBs who dont play defense. And we failed to score on a final drive twice, even though the offense dominated for the majority of the game.
Did you see us against Tennesee in a monsoon? Expect more of those type of games in those conditions!
If people don't see that acquiring the extra picks gives DG
1. draft our next QB while solidifying the defense;
2. totally address the defense and OL if we don't like a QB who's there when we pick;
3. give us the ammunition to trade up for our QB of the future while still addressing other team needs...
I think you're being blind.
And sticking with Eli has more to do with trying to have a successful season while also rebuilding than any loyalty to him. We don't have anyone else competent to play the position right now. What's so hard to understand about that?
however there's no point in being hyperbolic if your going to accept the premise. The second half they averaged 27 ppg. That would have been a top 5 number in the league. It also happened that came after the bye week, after they got the OL more settled, and after they started running more.
I don't think there's much of a predictive quality to a partial season, however I also think it's fair to say the offense was good the 2nd half of last year. Each year starts mostly as a blank slate but they showed more in the 2nd half last year than they have in probably any year since Gillbride.
One - you don't get to just cut the season up however you want. Last year's Giants averaged 23 points a game. It wasn't a good offense.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Dave Gettleman referenced the offensive line play in the second half of the season improving. That is why I cut it up. And the numbers back up that they did, in fact, improve.
Gettleman has been the GM of the team for yup...all of 1 season. He made some good draft picks, and just corrected our cap situation for 2020. We will have possibly the most cap room in all of football next year. Guess nobody wants to talk about that part.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
Haha. So now the narrative is that even if we want to rebuild and "build" the team, which is what we are doing, we can't, because every year is a different year?
you're actually including the Bears game as proof?
When nearly half of their points came on an pick 6 and a WR option TD thrown by Odell? Or the Eagles game where the offense did absolutely nothing in the second half while the Eagles came back to win? Or Dallas in a game where Dallas had absolutely nothing to play for except avoiding injuries, and rested a bunch of starters for most of the game? Is putting up some points on fellow sorryass teams like Tampa and SF really something you want to toot your horn about?
RE: RE: RE: RE: DG is doing a terrific job, for god sakes
I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft.
Meh. Barkley obviously played well, but the fact that the team was still atrocious just lends more credence to the fact that RB is not a position that has much impact on wins and losses.
Hernandez was a good pick, improved a good bit over the course of the season.
Carter has some promise but didn't do a whole helluva lot last year beyond an occasional flash. He has a lot to prove.
People make a LOT of hay out of Hill and for the life of me I don't understand why. Yeah, he had 3 sacks against the Bears. Swell. In the other 15 games, he was an adequate starter on a horrendous defense. Maybe he's an average starter at the position. Not exactly someone to turn cartwheels over at this point.
Lauletta? Lulz.
It was basically a lost season for McIntosh. Only played six games and didn't do much when he did play.
So, in total, he picked one legit star at a position of relative unimportance, one solid interior lineman, one edge rusher who flashed occasional promise but didn't get all that much PT despite having total dreck playing ahead of him, one DT who might be an average NFL starter, and one DT who is a total mystery. Oh, and a joke of a QB.
I think you are seriously downplaying some of these picks to fit your narrative. "adequate" or "average" NFL starter out of a 3rd round pick (BJ Hill) would qualify as a successful pick for any GM in the league.
the narrative is that if you went 5-11 last year you should stop citing any part of it as a success, because it wasn't.
Again, I like most of the moves Gettleman has made this offseason. But they don't offset his terrible 2018, and they don't make it OK to pay Eli $23M when we could have saved $17M by cutting him. That isn't OK.
cherry pick games from Eli's previous year to defend why he is the starting QB again the next year is nauseating.
Please stop.
If you look at his body of work in its entirety for past 4 seasons - any sane person can see it's time to move on.
This is the part where people start banging their heads against the wall. Over the last 4 years we all knew that the OL has been the issue. Yet, you can not give credit where credit is due. Eli played better down the stretch when he had protection this is an absolute fact. Now read between the lines, he told you they discussed a contract extension. If DG wanted to give one he would have done it before this bonus hit today. This means ELI needs to prove it with the new OL to stay or he is gone after this year.
It doesn't seem to me like the Giants have actually looked to upgrade on Eli (from a production AND cost standpoint).
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
This value equation hinges on 2 things:
1. An evaluation of Rosen who is way under market or a willingness to sign a Fitzpatrick level caretaker. Neither is unreasonable, but neither is a no-brainer.
2. There's not a lot of evidence Eli had anything to do with not getting the guys you mentioned - both of whom it was reported DG tried to sign. Could they have way overpaid to get those guys in the building? Maybe. But they could have done that anyway if they felt it was worth it. Weddle had like 10 teams interested and the NYG weren't even in his final cut of 5 teams. With the number of draft picks they have this year there may already be a tighter roster for veteran depth this year than other years.
It may be the best way to go to trade for Rosen right now and spend an extra $15m adding Justin Houston and a RT, and whoever else you like that's out there. Or it may be that there's a QB they like better in the draft so there's no point in wasting assets on Rosen. IMO it's not quite black and white yet. I think Jones is earmarked for that 17th pick.
You could start with an accurate assessment of the situation. If it wasn't possible to turn it around and win starting on day 1 - don't overpay for Solder, Omameh and Stewart. That would have been a really good start.
Well, I'm not sure how much better you can assess what you have without actually being in the mix on a day to day basis. If McAdoo stayed on as the coach then at least DG can make some decisions based on coaching input, but we not only had to have a GM learn everyone from scratch but a whole new coaching staff learn them as well. They weren't going to give up on any 1st rnd picks (Flowers, Apple) right away because this roster was already decimated by years of bad drafting. He knew he had to add a FA on the OL as first order of business. There was no way around paying that person. He went after Norwell first and when he was gone he went after the next best available, Solder. He HAD to pay that contract. And I feel like Solder and Hernandez were a very good pair starting after the bye. Omameh and Stewart were not good moves but clearly you aren't going to hit on every move you make.
RE: If people don't see that acquiring the extra picks gives DG
1. draft our next QB while solidifying the defense;
2. totally address the defense and OL if we don't like a QB who's there when we pick;
3. give us the ammunition to trade up for our QB of the future while still addressing other team needs...
I think you're being blind.
And sticking with Eli has more to do with trying to have a successful season while also rebuilding than any loyalty to him. We don't have anyone else competent to play the position right now. What's so hard to understand about that?
But I think most of us feel like they were playing more competitive football than they were in 2017. Barkley was a huge part of that. The coaching seemed better in the second half of the season as they committed to Barkley more. Defense was a mess. They had their best special teams year in recent memory.
We have to see if they improve upon this, stay the same, or get worse.
the narrative is that if you went 5-11 last year you should stop citing any part of it as a success, because it wasn't.
Again, I like most of the moves Gettleman has made this offseason. But they don't offset his terrible 2018, and they don't make it OK to pay Eli $23M when we could have saved $17M by cutting him. That isn't OK.
I firmly belief ownership is calling the shots with eli, whether thats right or wrong can be debated. but i think if they were fully hands off, eli would not be on the team. Also there is still plenty of opportunity to bring in a young qb, it would leave them pretty desperate if they cut Eli before they have someone else on board and could handcuff them in trying to make a move. literally the only rationalize i have left.
Through the losing has been number 10. He Dilfered two Super Bowls and unless the defense regains that form were in for a repeat of the last seven years. But with Eli, emotion trumps logic and Father Time.
the narrative is that if you went 5-11 last year you should stop citing any part of it as a success, because it wasn't.
Again, I like most of the moves Gettleman has made this offseason. But they don't offset his terrible 2018, and they don't make it OK to pay Eli $23M when we could have saved $17M by cutting him. That isn't OK.
$17 Million can cover up a lot of holes for multiple years.. We could've had the top Rt and Center for that money and I believe that helps our team more than the drop from Someone like Eli to Fitzpatrick..
Picked a great RB second overall - still to be determined if the opportunity cost (passing on taking a QB) will be steep. Hernandez looks ok so far, not sure he was better than Pugh as a rookie, but certainly has promise. Hill looked pretty good, Carter didn't do much - Lauletta???, McIntosh??? Picking second overall in each round, that group above doesn't jump out to me as a slam dunk by any means.
Reese obsolutely nailed the 2007 draft, which was a BIG factor in winning SB42. Then Got JPP and Cruz to help win 46, but he's labeled as a complete buffoon around here now.
Yes it is. But it is not incorrect to say that the Giants were playing "better" as a team. They didn't quit. They didn't collapse.
And perhaps not coincidentally, the guy who left the field early, has issues with water, and couldn't play the last four games after playing the previous one with the same injury just got traded.
Through the losing has been number 10. He Dilfered two Super Bowls and unless the defense regains that form were in for a repeat of the last seven years. But with Eli, emotion trumps logic and Father Time.
"Dilfered two Super Bowls" - This may be the dumbest comment I've ever read in the 25 years of this site.
the narrative is that if you went 5-11 last year you should stop citing any part of it as a success, because it wasn't.
Again, I like most of the moves Gettleman has made this offseason. But they don't offset his terrible 2018, and they don't make it OK to pay Eli $23M when we could have saved $17M by cutting him. That isn't OK.
I firmly belief ownership is calling the shots with eli, whether thats right or wrong can be debated. but i think if they were fully hands off, eli would not be on the team. Also there is still plenty of opportunity to bring in a young qb, it would leave them pretty desperate if they cut Eli before they have someone else on board and could handcuff them in trying to make a move. literally the only rationalize i have left.
This is what worries me and it scary as shit.. For the past 3 years decisions have been made differently for all other payers than Eli.. I personally won't be surprised if we extend Eli next year because Tua looks injury prone and other QBs are not guranteed to be good
as though the Giants accept the first half of the season as the inevitable period of struggle that accompanies a massive roster turnover and new system, and then point to the offense's improved performance (or at least, higher scores) as evidence that things were finally clicking in a sustainable and repeatable way.
I'm... skeptical.
RE: RE: I don't know how you say Eli played well once they got the o line
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
Going by the numbers on ESPN (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/5526/eli-manning) I get 99.85 for the first half and 92.06 for the last eight games. So, markedly worse. In addition, he was up and down like I said. Three of his below-80 rating games came in the back half and three in first half.
Through the losing has been number 10. He Dilfered two Super Bowls and unless the defense regains that form were in for a repeat of the last seven years. But with Eli, emotion trumps logic and Father Time.
"Dilfered two Super Bowls" - This may be the dumbest comment I've ever read in the 25 years of this site.
He's been trolling this site for years. Its amazing no one else sees it.
Through the losing has been number 10. He Dilfered two Super Bowls and unless the defense regains that form were in for a repeat of the last seven years. But with Eli, emotion trumps logic and Father Time.
"Dilfered two Super Bowls" - This may be the dumbest comment I've ever read in the 25 years of this site.
By definition, you cannot "Dilfer" two superbowls. Brad Johnson "Dilfered" a SB, Nick Foles, slightly more than "Dilfered" a SB. Eli Manning was anything but a Dilfer in those runs.
One - you don't get to just cut the season up however you want. Last year's Giants averaged 23 points a game. It wasn't a good offense.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Oh, I get it, you have to look at the total train wreck. You can not evaluate players when they came in and played better at the end of the year. So when we evaluate players and positions we have to focus from game 1 only. Thank God you are not the GM. Some of the people or should I say most of the people that made the O suck are gone. You never answer the actual question, Does Rivers, Ben R, Brady, Brees suck? Why don't they suck? BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FUCKING OL!!!!!!!! next question WHY ARE YOU SO THICK IN THE HEAD? ELI IS NOT THE PROBLEM. If he is unsuccessful with the OL we are putting together this year then knock yourself out. When your QB is always on his back right after the snap how do you expect him to function? You need to have a quality OL we have not had that in a long time.
is a 'crock', every time somebody disagrees with what he has said or done, 'that's a crock'.
When somebody points out during his end of season presser, that some of their wins came against backup QB's,
'that's a crock'.
Eli is overpaid, 'that's a crock'.
He amuses himself at least.
To not make Eli with a 23 mill. cap hit take a pay cut,
is just plain ludicrous!
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
One - you don't get to just cut the season up however you want. Last year's Giants averaged 23 points a game. It wasn't a good offense.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Oh, I get it, you have to look at the total train wreck. You can not evaluate players when they came in and played better at the end of the year. So when we evaluate players and positions we have to focus from game 1 only. Thank God you are not the GM. Some of the people or should I say most of the people that made the O suck are gone. You never answer the actual question, Does Rivers, Ben R, Brady, Brees suck? Why don't they suck? BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FUCKING OL!!!!!!!! next question WHY ARE YOU SO THICK IN THE HEAD? ELI IS NOT THE PROBLEM. If he is unsuccessful with the OL we are putting together this year then knock yourself out. When your QB is always on his back right after the snap how do you expect him to function? You need to have a quality OL we have not had that in a long time.
.
Well Eli is certainly no solution around here, it's been
like that for a few years now. So if you are not part of the solution, hence you are part of the problem.
Sure there are other problems here as well.
It's not that Manning can't function when paired with an adequate line and adequate weapons. That's obvious.
The primary question is how long will it take for that to happen and how many functional years does Manning have left.
Yet again the Giants likely have 3/5 of a new line. The Giants have a pretty unimpressive core of receivers. Defenses will sell out to stop Barkley, and Manning is a year older.
stats during this period vs that period OR in this game vs that game is ridiculous.
No one cares any more. He's getting paid more than anyone on this team, plays the most important position on the field, and HAS to take more responsibility for what actually plays out on the field more than any other PLAYER on the team.
He is 38-57 the past 6 years.
He has led the Giants to one playoff birth in the last 6 years.
He has led this team to a last or 2nd to last finish in the NFC east 5 of the last six years.
Who gives a shit how well he played against the Eagles two years ago in a regular season game.
Who gives a shit about how the offense was marginally better against a run of BS games to close out a meaningless season.
I love him - but his HofF career is over. Everyone knows how this scenario plays out. We've seen this move over and over again. It's time to move on b/c we've seen how it ends. At this point anyone trying to defend this move of running Eli out there as the only QB option again this year is either overly optimistic or just plain dumb.
how DG can say with a straight face, that trading OBJ was
because they 'got an offer they couldn't refuse'.
I am not too sure about that, the third round pick is the
Pats pick at the end of the round. I believe the Pats had traded that 3rd pick to the Brownies, for Danny Shelton.
I think he could have got a little more, that's how I feel.
Maybe a first, second and Peppers. At least, their earlier
3rd Rd. Pick (their own pick).
Through the losing has been number 10. He Dilfered two Super Bowls and unless the defense regains that form were in for a repeat of the last seven years. But with Eli, emotion trumps logic and Father Time.
I think you post some great stuff. And nobody is more irritated with Eli and the Mannings more than me. But Dilfer was a total passenger on that Ravens team in 2000.
If that D had their way that year, they would have run the Wildcat with Jamal.
Yes it is. But it is not incorrect to say that the Giants were playing "better" as a team. They didn't quit. They didn't collapse.
And perhaps not coincidentally, the guy who left the field early, has issues with water, and couldn't play the last four games after playing the previous one with the same injury just got traded.
I honestly dont care what we looked like in a small sample size without Beckham. If you want to see the horrifying splits, look at Elis numbers with and without OBJ since OBJ entered the league. That will not paint a pretty picture for the gallery here.
This is Groundhog Day, and I voted according on the BBI poll. But DAG has pulled the wool over many eyes here. A whopping 49% are optimistic. I have no idea where that comes from. Just look at Twitter and see the laughingstock weve become to objective people. But some numbnut GM wants to run it back with Eli again and will build around him to this teams long term detriment, again. I cant believe this.
One - you don't get to just cut the season up however you want. Last year's Giants averaged 23 points a game. It wasn't a good offense.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Oh, I get it, you have to look at the total train wreck. You can not evaluate players when they came in and played better at the end of the year. So when we evaluate players and positions we have to focus from game 1 only. Thank God you are not the GM. Some of the people or should I say most of the people that made the O suck are gone. You never answer the actual question, Does Rivers, Ben R, Brady, Brees suck? Why don't they suck? BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FUCKING OL!!!!!!!! next question WHY ARE YOU SO THICK IN THE HEAD? ELI IS NOT THE PROBLEM. If he is unsuccessful with the OL we are putting together this year then knock yourself out. When your QB is always on his back right after the snap how do you expect him to function? You need to have a quality OL we have not had that in a long time.
It's harder to build an offensive line when you're overpaying your QB.
As for me not being the GM, I don't know. I could argue I've been ahead of the GMs on this team on some major shit since about 2016.
RE: RE: I don't know how you say Eli played well once they got the o line
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
There you go letting facts get in the way of a narrative.
You would think this guy is George Young the way being critical
people asked about the supposed mirage of improvement of the offensive line in the second half of the season.
I posted the numbers. Sacks went way down. Rushing went way up. Passing stayed steady. We scored a lot of points. That's improvement of the offensive line. I'm sorry if it doesn't fit with what some of you thought you saw.
Lol. Anyone who says Eli "Dilfered" two super bowls should have their fucking handle deleted.
.
That's right, give Eli his due, he was great the entire
2011 season IMO. He was clutch at the end of 2007 SB run.
I may not be happy with him now, folks lets not get carried away with it. When he is gone, I'll certainly appreciate
his durability at QB.
And Zeitler is going to make it even better this year.
One - you don't get to just cut the season up however you want. Last year's Giants averaged 23 points a game. It wasn't a good offense.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Oh, I get it, you have to look at the total train wreck. You can not evaluate players when they came in and played better at the end of the year. So when we evaluate players and positions we have to focus from game 1 only. Thank God you are not the GM. Some of the people or should I say most of the people that made the O suck are gone. You never answer the actual question, Does Rivers, Ben R, Brady, Brees suck? Why don't they suck? BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FUCKING OL!!!!!!!! next question WHY ARE YOU SO THICK IN THE HEAD? ELI IS NOT THE PROBLEM. If he is unsuccessful with the OL we are putting together this year then knock yourself out. When your QB is always on his back right after the snap how do you expect him to function? You need to have a quality OL we have not had that in a long time.
It's harder to build an offensive line when you're overpaying your QB.
As for me not being the GM, I don't know. I could argue I've been ahead of the GMs on this team on some major shit since about 2016.
What is the going rate for an NFL QB. They are paying him what he is worth?
RE: And Zeitler is going to make it even better this year.
Fail. Same goes for BBI front page. The GM holds his post 1st wave of FA and not a mention.
Guess the Mods are too busy running and stickying their own Mock drafts. LOL.
The press conference was held at 11AM. I don't have the transcript yet. As soon as it is released, I will post it. As I always do. There is no video because it was a conference call.
Lol. Anyone who says Eli "Dilfered" two super bowls should have their fucking handle deleted.
Agreed. Too strong of a statement. Were either great performances? Was scoring 17 and 21 the kind of output we thought necessary to win those SBs? No and no. But they surely weren't "Dilfer'd". They were solid and most important, mistake free.
Gettleman has been the GM of the team for yup...all of 1 season. He made some good draft picks, and just corrected our cap situation for 2020. We will have possibly the most cap room in all of football next year. Guess nobody wants to talk about that part.
Agree and the rest have done a good job so far. But typical Giant, dark side critics, will criticize most things, then join the band wagon, if it works and never mention their past BS. Used to it myself.
Through the losing has been number 10. He Dilfered two Super Bowls and unless the defense regains that form were in for a repeat of the last seven years. But with Eli, emotion trumps logic and Father Time.
"Dilfered two Super Bowls" - This may be the dumbest comment I've ever read in the 25 years of this site.
Yes it is. But it is not incorrect to say that the Giants were playing "better" as a team. They didn't quit. They didn't collapse.
And perhaps not coincidentally, the guy who left the field early, has issues with water, and couldn't play the last four games after playing the previous one with the same injury just got traded.
like your comments on OBJ sitting the last four games because of injury. Think he was sending a message. I want out. He got his wish. We will see.
Even still the audio should have been streamed or at the least available (by now) for listening. Instead, fans are left to discern what DG said based on twitter posts by some reporters who frankly have an agenda (Pat Leonard). I've been listening to sound bytes on NFL Live, and quite frankly the Eli part sounds different coming direct from DG than the twitter posts.
cherry pick games from Eli's previous year to defend why he is the starting QB again the next year is nauseating.
Please stop.
If you look at his body of work in its entirety for past 4 seasons - any sane person can see it's time to move on.
This is the part where people start banging their heads against the wall. Over the last 4 years we all knew that the OL has been the issue. Yet, you can not give credit where credit is due. Eli played better down the stretch when he had protection this is an absolute fact. Now read between the lines, he told you they discussed a contract extension. If DG wanted to give one he would have done it before this bonus hit today. This means ELI needs to prove it with the new OL to stay or he is gone after this year.
Are you kidding me with this?
The Eli Manning led Giants won 4 of the last 8.
They beat three equally hopeless teams (SF, TB, Wash) playing for nothing with backup QBs and had a nice showing against the Bears (who were also playing with a backup QB - but put up a good game against a good def).
Eli Manning passing yardages those last 8 games were:
180,196,276,197,175,213,309,298.
To blindly follow the idea that Eli's 2nd half "resurgence" is clearly going to set this team up for future success is just silly.
in Antonio Brown, he may have asked for Josh Allen and the Bills said, no way. Just a guess on my part, but if DG did this, credit to him for trying. It would have been a franchise saving trade.
trying to win as many games as possible while rebuilding AND finding our next QB.
The FO has said time and again that finding our next QB is one of the major tasks going forward. They've also said that picking the wrong guy can set you back years.
Imo they're trying hard to find the next guy, but also recognizing that we need a lot more talent all around the roster to be a good team. So they're trying to do two things at once in a situation where there isn't an easy fix.
Maybe they were wrong not to take Darnold, Allen or Rosen last year. Time will tell whether any of those guys are franchise QBs. But at this point there's no one better equipped than Eli to lead the team this year. He's older, worse, perhaps shell shocked from past OL play, but still better than anyone else available.
I'm hoping that we select one of the 1st round QBs this year. But if not I'm hoping that we add the final piece to the OL and then make our defense as physical and fast as possible, and perhaps become a team that can win with a game manager because it's so good elsewhere.
This may be a two season project. We're 8/24 over the past two years, so it may take two drafts to bring us up to the quality of teams in our Division like Dallas and Philly. But I'd argue that we have more potential to do so after the OBJ trade and acquisition of Zeitler than we were two weeks ago.
and it was tough to see OB wank his way out of town ... 12 draft picks and very little dead cap money next year are a ton of assets to build on, in addition to the draft last year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I never remember a time when the Giants..
So what would your response have been? Please choose one or make up another if you dont like these choices..
1. Bench Eli for Lauletta who clearly is not the answer and NOT better than Eli.
2. Make a comment that Eli is not in our future (which is what people here want him to say).
3. Cut Eli before we owed him the salary bonus AND before we had a replacement. Then, the no plan talk would have been at an all time high.
4. Signed Fitzpatrick who is 36 yrs old
So, where is the blind part? I just want to know what DG should have done thus far about Eli. What would have been your plan?
The fact that he said there wasn't even a decision to make is the blindly part.
once again.. you are someone who is taking every word he says literally without understanding the gamesmanship involved with making a comment that completely backs current starting QB.
Maybe you should ask to see his draft board. Then, when he gives you a fake one you will complain after the draft that he did not draft according to the board he shared publicly.
Gettleman is struggling with two very important tasks
Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
RE: Gettleman is struggling with two very important tasks
Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Me too
Woah did someone say grit?
A team of 53 Zak DeOssies, Dave Diehls, and David Tyrees.
Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Thanks Eric for contributing what is most likely the most rational post on this thread that will unfortunately be ignored by most.
RE: A team of 53 Zak DeOssies, Dave Diehls, and David Tyrees.
Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Thanks Eric for contributing what is most likely the most rational post on this thread that will unfortunately be ignored by most.
Lol. Anyone who says Eli "Dilfered" two super bowls should have their fucking handle deleted.
Agreed. Too strong of a statement. Were either great performances? Was scoring 17 and 21 the kind of output we thought necessary to win those SBs? No and no. But they surely weren't "Dilfer'd". They were solid and most important, mistake free.
So, all of the evidence suggests that our thoughts of what kind of output was necessary to win the games were...wrong. It should make us think a little bit harder, shouldn't it?
Why do people insist on makiing fools of themselves with posts like these?
Why do people insist on demanding a certain typecast for football players? The world may never know. It's just what I think of when fans wax poetic about 'grit'.
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Agreed. It really is perplexing that people can't grasp this concept.
unless your endgame is either A)Treading water so the bottom doesn't fall out or B)Selling tickets while Eli accumulates better numbers and stats for his HOF bid.
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I'm glad someone else noticed this. The guy said he wanted to avoid QB hell while standing firmly at the center of it.
unless your endgame is either A)Treading water so the bottom doesn't fall out or B)Selling tickets while Eli accumulates better numbers and stats for his HOF bid.
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I get it now. You are one of the fans that never did (and probably never will) get over the fact that we didn't take Sam Darnold.
RE: RE: 'A team of 53 Zak DeOssies, Dave Diehls, and David Tyrees'...
Why do people insist on makiing fools of themselves with posts like these?
Why do people insist on demanding a certain typecast for football players? The world may never know. It's just what I think of when fans wax poetic about 'grit'.
Leave me out of this
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
So what if they don't like Rosen (as some reports say) OR they are simply asking way too much from a team that has holes galore on defense.
And what if they don't like the QBs in this year's draft?
I think DG is going with what his best option is right now, and that's Eli.
Yes DG talks about avoiding QB hell and we are in the middle of it right now with an aging QB. No one said getting out of it was easy.
To draft a QB simply to say you have something new isn't the way to get it done, and DG knows that.
Johnny Mara is bound and determined to keep Eli out there for as long as Mannning is willing to step on the field.
I would expect another 1-2 years of Eli as starter and who knows what sort of shape SB or the rest of the team will be in.
"The rest of the team" is going to mostly be draft picks selected either last year (7), this year (currently 12), or next year (currently 9). Stockpiling draft picks is the right move right now, as is using that stockpile to find the QB of the future.
Whether Eli starts games between now and then is of little consequence to properly rebuilding through the draft. Getting those picks right is going to sink or swim Gettleman.
RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
Drew, do you really think that DG isn't aware of Eli's age or
the need to get his replacement on board? Do you think that he hasn't communicated with the Cards regarding the cost to land Rosen or to move up to #1 for Murray if the Cards are sticking with Rosen?
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
Why would they win sooner? His contract is up after this year, so right now we don't have a QB beyond 2019.
Trading for a young QB off someone else's roster (could be Rosen, could be someone else) is a better option. Even going with Lauletta is a better option.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
RE: Drew, do you really think that DG isn't aware of Eli's age or
the need to get his replacement on board? Do you think that he hasn't communicated with the Cards regarding the cost to land Rosen or to move up to #1 for Murray if the Cards are sticking with Rosen?
I have no idea what DG is doing about the QB position other than what he has said publicly.
I sure hope he's looking into all those other options - but i don't know.
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
OK - that sounds great, but how do you know the Cardinals are taking offers right now or that they aren't asking for 3 first rounders? Beyond that, the Giants front office did its homework on Rosen last year and maybe they think he's a jackass.
Trading for a young QB off someone else's roster (could be Rosen, could be someone else) is a better option. Even going with Lauletta is a better option.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
OK - let's say you cut him and go with Lauletta. When it becomes clear that Lauletta is not a starting caliber QB you are back where you started. You didn't build toward anything.
... from posters who I genuinely respect, about Eli.
There is NO VALID/CORRECT/PERFECT/Insert-adjective-here WAY to replace an Eli at the end of his career. This is all just bullshit opinion from armchair QB fans (myself included).
Again I so hope Eli SLAYS it next year to at least tamp some of this shit down. Reese and regime failed Eli miserably in the back half of his career. It's pretty clear to my eyes the guy can still play IF HE HAS ADEQUATE blocking, which he hasn't had in a LONG time. That not only cost Eli the back half of his career, it also cost the jobs of a great HC and OC.
I know this guy can still play behind decent OL. And I want this team to be competitive REGARDLESS of who is behind center. The team needs to be rebuilt and there is no better option at QB on the roster right now. Nobody has any clue if we might even be working to get Murray (which would be MY choice). I am willing to give DG next year to show MARKED improvement to the roster and team competitiveness. Let's give the guy more than one season for crissakes and stop crying about the best Giants QB in my lifetime.
Pull on your big boy pants and root for your g*d*mn team you bunch of Nancies! lol
Anything beats paying what the NYG are paying for a guy with 8 wins in two years.
That's what 8 wins the past two years - they are paying a little over $23 mil this year and paid him $41 million the last two years before that....and DG is saying his being over paid is a crock?
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
Eli is not what he once was but he is still way better than Taylor, Bridgewater, and Fitz in my opinion. It's a one year deal too, so there is no commitment to Eli next year. Signing any of those other QB's would probably result in dead money next year and it does nothing to rebuild this roster. It's not like we aren't signing someone because of Eli (at least I don't think that is the case).
Trading for a young QB off someone else's roster (could be Rosen, could be someone else) is a better option. Even going with Lauletta is a better option.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
I don't disagree with most of this post, but IMO if they draft 1 of the QB's this year, I have no issue with that guy going into the season behind Eli. That's actually probably my preferred option vs. pinning hopes to next year's crop of QB's or trading for someone else's flawed QB option (like Rosen).
If they determine he has enough arm talent, I think Daniel Jones at 17 makes a lot of sense. He reminds me of Phillip Rivers, with more mobility. Or Wentz with less arm talent.
What about the $17M I got from cutting Eli? I can turn that into 3 or 4 players.
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
It's actually been a good off-season leading into the draft - OBJ trade brought a quality defender and more draft picks, cut more dead weight, smartly didn't bleak on LC, nice move to get Tate, good swap to get Zeitler.
But this Eli decision is as dumb as it gets. And, I believe, an albatross to really move forward. It wreaks of sentimentality, naivety, delusion, fear, and cow-towing to a fan base that would rather watch Eli more than moving forward and building a long-term solution.
If DG really think Eli is the best solution available than you have to be dubious about him selecting the next QB.
Because after reading Shurmur's quotes last week about the ideal QB he wants to run his offense, it's crystal clear he wants to move on from Eli. Anything else out of his mouth is him just towing the company line...
If telling the truth to reporters is NOT in Gettleman's contract,
then I see no reason why he has to. A strategic lie can be good for the Giants rather than just to make Gettleman look good.
Frankly, with the possible exceptions of Mike Francesa and Stephen A. Smith, most reporters would much prefer to be told an interesting lie rather than the boring truth. The boring truth does not sell copy.
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Agreed. It really is perplexing that people can't grasp this concept.
Some of us are actually thinking that Giants FO actually thinks he is the Long term solution.. Nothing that has been done so far shows otherwise.. They haven't asked Eli to take a pay cut. They didn't look for another QB to come in for a cheaper price.. They actually came up with the BS stat that Giants are the highest scoring team in NFC east as if it matters and BTW we are not the highest scoring offense in the NFC east.. Nothing Eli has done over the past 3 years justifies anything.. I have no trust that the Giants don't try to extend him next year..
What about the $17M I got from cutting Eli? I can turn that into 3 or 4 players.
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
I question if there's enough talent left in FA to get enough surplus value with the $17m compared to signing more modest guys. They can already afford a RT Remmers, Veldeheer, or Schraeder, there's not really a better option out there for more money.
Justin Houston is probably the guy in FA who could get the most $ in a 1 year deal, I'm not sure he moves the needle enough to be worth starting Lauletta - who isn't even a powerball ticket at this point. He's a scratch off.
It's too late now. It had to be done before FA started, and before Eli got his bonus.
Who do you think they should have signed? We should have learned from experience that it's best to sit out the first wave of FA because you always grossly overpay for marginal talent.
John Mara got spooked at the reaction to Elis benching
Two years ago. I think the organization was ready to move on then, the reaction shocked them and Mara - being incredibly risk averse and unwilling to rock the boat - decided the appropriate course of action was to recommit to Eli.
I firmly believe Gettleman and Shurmur were hired because they told Mara what he wanted to hear about Eli.
I was annoyed McAdoo benched Eli for Geno Smith and I still think he handled it the wrong way but I see where he was coming from. McAdoo probably reacted a little late actually, Manning was a punchline in the national conversation before that benching. But he was still two seasons (and counting) ahead of the current Giants management group.
Anyway nothing I can do about it so I just have to go along for the ride. Been watching Eli play ineffective football and throw devastating interceptions for years now, whats another season (or two, or three)?
over the next two years, then its ok to have Eli play this year. He will be asked to be a game manager, that's all. His playing is NOT about "building around Eli". He's essentially, a place-holder until his replacement is found. Meanwhile, Gettleman is building the roster one brick at a time. That's the right approach. As JonC said above. 12 picks this year, maybe 11 next year AND over 100 million I cap space, this can be a pretty quick rebuild. From my perspective, we have to have faith, DG knows what he's doing. Otherwise.....
Were 1 year deals, no dead money or commitment beyond this year. Keenum's numbers under Shurmur in 2017 were nearly identical to Eli's last year. I think they're a wash in this offense. If they're not, it's close enough to warrant the 14M in net cap savings. Bridgewater is a guy that is still young and can be seen as possibly having some upside. He would have netted 9-10M in cap. Either of those are superior short term alternatives to Eli in a rebuild. I'm also not so sure that this is Eli's last year.
I hope the Giants plan is to have him mentor a rookie QB this year and the overpay in 2019 is a move made out of respect to a franchise legend. In that case, I'm okay with it. The arguments that spin it any other way ring hollow to me.
Is putting out some very very fair alternative options at the QB position.
I will say Eli - bridge QB - young kid sounds more logical to me. Eli's era ends, you bring in a Tyrod Taylor type and still remain competitive. Everyone including the fans now know you've moved into a new era and truthfully many here would probably be less frustrated since our direction is more clear.
I do not think Eli and the young grasshopper on the same roster is a great idea, now they both have to answer questions about each other and it once again makes a situation that could be drama free kinda volatile.
While you can make the argument Eli may be better than a fringe street starter in terms of play, i think the benefits of moving on off the field favor bringing in a different stopgap.
Let Eli ride off into the sunset - let one chapter end and then start another.
I hope i am humbled and he surprises us this year.
It's too late now. It had to be done before FA started, and before Eli got his bonus.
Ok that makes more sense - and I think that's a somewhat fair position.
I personally disagree with it because I don't think Lauletta is a reasonable option (nor a vet placeholder like Fitzmagic). So I understand not cutting Eli if they didn't like the options available. We don't even know if Rosen is 100% available yet and I'd personally prefer our qb of the future to be more mobile.
With all the draft picks they've added the next 2 years, my #1 option by far is to find a guy they like and get him for a full 5 years at rookie scale. Keeping Eli to give that player time to get acclimated is a benefit in my mind. Especially if it ends up being Murray or Haskins since each had so few starts in CFB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I do enjoy the certainty with which people state that
Facts are inconvenient things. Peppers hasn't done much. As a former 1st round pick, he has to be chalked up at this point as "disappointing" which is why he was available in the first place.
Take a look at Peppers year this year. He was pretty damn productive. Williams used him very wisely.
If you say so. Statistically, at least, Collins was better despite playing in 4 fewer games and having a total incompetent as a fellow safety.
RE: As difficult as the recent seasons have been to endure
and it was tough to see OB wank his way out of town ... 12 draft picks and very little dead cap money next year are a ton of assets to build on, in addition to the draft last year.
And the draft next year also
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
So having 8 figures in cap space is more important than winning games? Because none of those guys are a lock for more than 5 wins next year.
We needed 3 pieces to the OL....so far we have one.....
12 picks? Most are after the 3rd round....have to be extremely lucky....or used them to package a move up.....
The smart move was to cut Eli and use the 17M either this year or next.....go full rebuild, and get a high draft choice next year....I don't mind losing, when you plan on losing....but when you tell us you are trying to win, and lose, that's a whole other ball game that we have been listening to for years....
Stop with the bullshit. No one wants to replace Eli for the sake of replacing him. No one wants to start Eli forever either.
This entire argument is based on one's evaluation of Eli's play right now. It is subjective. Because it's subjective no one is going to admit they're wrong or change their opinion.
Threads are not going to stop anytime soon. This will be in the discussion for the entire year 2019. Hoping it stops is futile. Buckle up, we're going to complain about every aspect of this for the entire year.
It doesn't seem to me like the Giants have actually looked to upgrade on Eli (from a production AND cost standpoint).
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
None of them wanted to play here. The player has to choose to play here when hes a free agent. The money in a vacuum doesnt mean shit.
No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago and what he happens to show on a far more infrequent basis now.
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
Eli is the future.
Wait until the extension is announced for 3 yrs/$60M, $45 guaranteed.
No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago and what he happens to show on a far more infrequent basis now.
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
What a crock. I am hoping we somehow end up with Kyler Murray.
But to say Eli's just done and completely holding the offense back without heavily factoring in the OL situation is absurd. And thinking he can still win with an actual NFL level OL is a justifiable position to hold. And dumping him at all costs is just goofy.
Well I was responding to your first sentence... "No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago..." Yada yada yada.
If it is, prepare not to see it, or to watch in some sort of glitchy, Max Headroom type manner.
Greg, enough with these stupid takes. Do you really think the man doesn't own a VCR?
Quote:
Bonanza is on Antenna TV at 12.
Greg, enough with these stupid takes. Do you really think the man doesn't own a VCR?
He does but is grand daughter hasn't been by to program it for him....
Quote:
Bonanza is on Antenna TV at 12.
Greg, enough with these stupid takes. Do you really think the man doesn't own a VCR?
I do, but I'm convinced it's constantly flashing 12:00 AM
Dammit....I really need to refresh before posting.
What is very noticeable since the Odell trade was how much the Giants have been putting out there "we have a plan". Hell, it was in the press release after the Odell trade.
Recently we had Bob Papa come on and also give more statements that Gettleman does actually have a plan.
A press conference now feels more like a damage control moment than anything of real substance.
So maybe I should change my gif to the following
Quote:
I do, but I'm convinced it's constantly flashing 12:00 AM
Dammit....I really need to refresh before posting.
You laugh, but it's helpful to catch that Honeymooners episode where Ralph and Ed learn how to play golf, which is the perfect pick me up when everyone is being mean just because you traded one guy.
Quote:
..
If it is, prepare not to see it, or to watch in some sort of glitchy, Max Headroom type manner.
I remember when I rode Nilay's case and was lambasted for it. Now, it seems that more and more are questioning how he has a job for a major sport franchise in an area of the country where there is no shortage of qualified candidates.
What is very noticeable since the Odell trade was how much the Giants have been putting out there "we have a plan". Hell, it was in the press release after the Odell trade.
Quote:
You can win while you build a roster, Gettleman said. We do have a plan, and this is a part of it.
Recently we had Bob Papa come on and also give more statements that Gettleman does actually have a plan.
A press conference now feels more like a damage control moment than anything of real substance.
So maybe I should change my gif to the following
Quote:
after a quick look last year, Gettleman didn't hold a press conference in March last year during free agency. He (and Reese before him) usually held the pre-draft press conference, where it is an exercise in a GM not actually answering anything (nor should they).
What is very noticeable since the Odell trade was how much the Giants have been putting out there "we have a plan". Hell, it was in the press release after the Odell trade.
Quote:
You can win while you build a roster, Gettleman said. We do have a plan, and this is a part of it.
Recently we had Bob Papa come on and also give more statements that Gettleman does actually have a plan.
A press conference now feels more like a damage control moment than anything of real substance.
So maybe I should change my gif to the following
What's the point of this? They have a PR department for damage control. There's no real reason to have a press conference - it is kind of unusual.
If he's going on Francesa, it feels like a PR full court press for Gettleman to come out himself and calm down the fan base that he's not a doddering old fool. I'm sure Mara got a shitload of angry letters and calls after Odell. You wait for the weekend for things to calm down and then address it. Like I said, Gettleman normally speaks at the end of season press conference and then before the draft. That he's doing this and then Francesa screams damage control. There is only so much that Pat Hanlon can do.
What's the point of this? They have a PR department for damage control.
You may not be familiar with Pat Hanlon, but if he's the guy delivering the message to the public, the franchise would be even more of a laughing stock. All he does is argue with fans on twitter and scream at people in the media who offer a negative opinion of the team.
Spider, out
That's exactly what it is and nothing more. It's the softest possible landing spot.
It would be meaningful if he actually sat down with someone who really spent time following the ups and downs about the team, not a cartoon character coasting through what should be his retirement.
This number one thing this team needs to do to start restoring confidence is land their franchise QB. Its the biggest question for the franchise. A year ago they elected to pass in favor of their hand of god/ generational running back and I think many are saying that's all fine, but we still need an answer for the most important position --here we are with two first round picks including one in the top 10, are we going to use them in some way, or punt on the QB again?
I said when DG was hired, the huge decisions were coach, the #2 pick, Odell contract, and Eli transition. We are still watching it all unfold, and the jury is very much out.
I feel like if he's just honest with the fan base, things will go smoother.
"Yes, we had a plan and ODell was very much a part of our plans. But things changed and our plans have changed. We have a new plan"
Anything to address the elephant in the room and not a PR blitz of positivety.
That's what I'd like to hear.
Hahahahah
Peppers hasn't been great in coverage his first two years. Let's hold off on calling him an upgrade.
Quote:
What's the point of this? They have a PR department for damage control.
You may not be familiar with Pat Hanlon, but if he's the guy delivering the message to the public, the franchise would be even more of a laughing stock. All he does is argue with fans on twitter and scream at people in the media who offer a negative opinion of the team.
Pat Hanlon is one of the nicest most generous people I've ever met. I'm sure many on here can attest to that.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
22s22 seconds ago
Gettleman: "Hello!!!"
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
22s23 seconds ago
Giants GM Dave Gettleman: "You all excited about March Madness?''
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
13s14 seconds ago
Gettleman: "The only call I initiated regarding moving Odell was to Buffalo."
3m
Giants GM Dave Gettleman about to start a conference call with the local writers in a few minutes. Also, there will be conference calls with Kevin Seitler and Jabrill Peppers afterwards.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
13s14 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - had "numerous conversations over time" with the 49ers but could not reach a deal...
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
35s35 seconds ago
Gettleman: Trade talks with John Doresy for Odell took about 10 hours last Tuesday.
New York Giants
Verified account @Giants
43s44 seconds ago
"Talks were initiated by the Browns. John [Dorsey] knew we weren't just going to give Odell away...there was considerable back and forth." - GM Dave Gettleman on a conference call
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
46s47 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - trading OBJ was "purely a football business decision"...."in the best interest of the new york football giants"
Verified account
@TomRock_Newsday
17s17 seconds ago
More
Gettleman: "This was purely a football decision... Odell was a tremendous talent making him a valuable asset... With football being the ultimate team sport, we turned that fact into three assets."
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
56s56 seconds ago
Gettleman: "This was purely a football decision... Odell was a tremendous talent making him a valuable asset... With football being the ultimate team sport, we turned that fact into three assets."
New York Giants
Verified account @Giants
39s39 seconds ago
"We didn't sign Odell to trade him, but things change. Another team made an offer we couldn't refuse." - GM Dave Gettleman
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman: "Another team made us an offer we could not refuse." Says having Odell signed for next five years made him more valuable in a trade.
Ralph Vacchiano
Verified account @RVacchianoSNY
1m1 minute ago
What about "not quitting on talent"? Says Gettleman: "I believe that fully. But quitting on talent is when you cut a player or get marginal value in return. That did not happen here."
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
i'm following on twitter. not sure its being broadcast anywhere
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
25s25 seconds ago
Gettleman: "It was just too much to pass up. Too much value for us."
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
18s19 seconds ago
Gettleman: "We have positions to address and this was about us having the ability to address multiple positions."
Quote:
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
And there it is.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
14s15 seconds ago
Gettleman: "When it comes to trading, the team that makes the call is playing from behind. You are in a much better position when teams call you."
No question
Quote:
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
This is not a good take and so many people parrot it. Is an early 3rd basically a 2nd rounder?
Never understood why it's always the late picks that are "basically" the next round, but the early rounders from the next round are never basically the earlier round.
all depends on the picture you want to paint.
A 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick. Period. Yes, some are later than others, but none a "basically" 4th round picks.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
39s39 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - "it's not my responsibility to tell you guys "media" what i'm doing"..."trust me. we got a plan. over time, you've got to be patient."
New York Giants
Verified account @Giants
37s37 seconds ago
"We have positions to address. Our plan is to address those positions, plain and simple. We'll do that through whatever means necessary." - GM Dave Gettleman
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
16s16 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - 'we're building. the object of this is to win as many games as possible every year."
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
14s15 seconds ago
Gettleman: "When it comes to trading, the team that makes the call is playing from behind. You are in a much better position when teams call you."
Man this guy isn't built for this.
This is not a good take and so many people parrot it. Is an early 3rd basically a 2nd rounder?
Never understood why it's always the late picks that are "basically" the next round, but the early rounders from the next round are never basically the earlier round.
all depends on the picture you want to paint.
A 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick. Period. Yes, some are later than others, but none a "basically" 4th round picks.
It's the same thing as the bullshit Eli is a 39 year old QB and Odell is a 26 year old receiver - despite the fact Eli will be 38 for the entirety of the Season and Odell will be 27 mid season; but whatever serves the purpose of the argument is what people will go with.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
3s4 seconds ago
Gettleman: "You can win while you are building... They're not separate pieces."
Quote:
In comment 14344734 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
This is not a good take and so many people parrot it. Is an early 3rd basically a 2nd rounder?
Yes. For everyone but the Giants.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
3s4 seconds ago
Gettleman: "You can win while you are building... They're not separate pieces."
Gee, sounds familiar.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
39s39 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - "it's not my responsibility to tell you guys "media" what i'm doing"..."trust me. we got a plan. over time, you've got to be patient."
And there it is. We got a plan
Translation:
We're all-in on Eli. It may take another year or two, but this is going to work...
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
39s39 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - "it's not my responsibility to tell you guys "media" what i'm doing"..."trust me. we got a plan. over time, you've got to be patient."
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
32s33 seconds ago
Gettleman: "Nobody wants to have that kind of dead money, but it's the long-term vision that we have... Sometimes you have to do those things."
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Quote:
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
He did get two 1sts and a 3rd. This is a fact, not sure why dome dispute this
He's used one trade to address one of these issues (running the ball), and will use the additional draft capital to address the other two issues. And Peppers is an improvement over Collins at a much lower cost. Reese either couldn't identify talent at the Line of Scrimmage or he didn't care about it.
It's not DG's job to tell them who he's going to draft or sign.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Agree 100%
Quote:
In comment 14344734 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
This is not a good take and so many people parrot it. Is an early 3rd basically a 2nd rounder?
Never understood why it's always the late picks that are "basically" the next round, but the early rounders from the next round are never basically the earlier round.
all depends on the picture you want to paint.
A 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick. Period. Yes, some are later than others, but none a "basically" 4th round picks.
It's the 95th pick and there are a few conditional draft picks after ours. Is there a huge difference between this being a 3rd rounder and 4th round draft pick. NO.
Quote:
In comment 14344734 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
He did get two 1sts and a 3rd. This is a fact, not sure why dome dispute this
Also a 4th for a 5th..
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
"the Humble my ass 21" LOL
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman: "You're not gonna be able to give a Roman Coliseum thumbs up or thumbs down on this trade for a little bit." Have to see who the draft picks are and how Jabrill Peppers develops.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman: "Today is the day (Eli Manning) gets his bonus, and we just keep moving."
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
53s54 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - on Eli and possible extension..... "we discussed it. today is the day when he gets his bonus and we just keep moving"
New York Giants
Verified account @Giants
1m1 minute ago
"The rumor that we were offered a first-round draft pick for Landon Collins isn't even remotely accurate." - GM Dave Gettleman
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
53s54 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - on Eli and possible extension..... "we discussed it. today is the day when he gets his bonus and we just keep moving"
Nuclear meltdown in 3, 2, 1....
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
43s44 seconds ago
Gettleman: "Did we have teams call on Landon (during the season)? Yes. But at that point in time it wasn't what I thought he was worth... I didn't think the value was there, so that's why we didn't do it."
Ryan Dunleavy
Verified account @rydunleavy
51s51 seconds ago
Gettleman says he had talks about restructuring Manning salary caps number but they didn't. "We just keep moving." #giants
New York Giants
Verified account @Giants
1m1 minute ago
"The rumor that we were offered a first-round draft pick for Landon Collins isn't even remotely accurate." - GM Dave Gettleman
If anyone offered a 1 or a 2 for Collins it would have been a done deal last season..
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
27s28 seconds ago
Gettleman: "You need a guy in the back end who can get everybody lined up and make all the adjustment calls. If you don;t have that, you can't function." Says Bethea is "an adult" and is "still effective."
"Age doesn't bother me."
This is not a good take and so many people parrot it. Is an early 3rd basically a 2nd rounder?
Never understood why it's always the late picks that are "basically" the next round, but the early rounders from the next round are never basically the earlier round.
all depends on the picture you want to paint.
A 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick. Period. Yes, some are later than others, but none a "basically" 4th round picks.
It's gotta be middle of the round for a X round pick to really be an X round pick, come on now!
So we really dealt OBJ and a 5th for Peppers, 1st, 3rd (but really a 4th) and a 4th (but really a 3rd)!
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
What's the argument here that Beckham, Collins, or Harrison didn't play football first?
We sure do jump though the 'grit and toughness!!' hoops to blame individuals for management failure.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
32s33 seconds ago
Gettleman: "Nobody wants to have that kind of dead money, but it's the long-term vision that we have... Sometimes you have to do those things."
This +1000. I don't understand why anyone is complaining about the dead money for this year. It means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman: "You're not gonna be able to give a Roman Coliseum thumbs up or thumbs down on this trade for a little bit." Have to see who the draft picks are and how Jabrill Peppers develops.
How can you not love this answer??
Awesome!
Quote:
New York Giants
Verified account @Giants
1m1 minute ago
"The rumor that we were offered a first-round draft pick for Landon Collins isn't even remotely accurate." - GM Dave Gettleman
If anyone offered a 1 or a 2 for Collins it would have been a done deal last season..
Not according to many of the boobs in the national media and BBI.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
53s54 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - on Eli and possible extension..... "we discussed it. today is the day when he gets his bonus and we just keep moving"
Let me translate: Absolutely.
These dumb motherf-ckers at Jints Central are just the best...
Agreed. He's always got to add in something snarky and smarmy. Just report the news, f*ckface.
Greatest gif ever.
And no one is surprised to know you feel that way either.
That said, if you're going to keep Eli at $23M this year, you'd better win. 6-10 and Gettleman and Shurmur should both be shown the door.
I do think the odds of winning went up this past week. Cut out a lot of cancer.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
35s36 seconds ago
Gettleman on the pressure on Peppers: "Jabrill is a hell of a kid... He's coming here to play football. He'll have Antoine helping him out... He doesn't feel that pressure. He's just really excited about being a Giant."
Quote:
In comment 14344736 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14344734 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
This is not a good take and so many people parrot it. Is an early 3rd basically a 2nd rounder?
Never understood why it's always the late picks that are "basically" the next round, but the early rounders from the next round are never basically the earlier round.
all depends on the picture you want to paint.
A 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick. Period. Yes, some are later than others, but none a "basically" 4th round picks.
It's the 95th pick and there are a few conditional draft picks after ours. Is there a huge difference between this being a 3rd rounder and 4th round draft pick. NO.
but is there a difference? YES.
Would you rather have pick 95 or pick 103 (which is the first pick in the 4th round). Or worse, pick 119 which is Cleveland's 4th round pick.
that's 8 picks difference, and if you look at a normal round that's a 25% difference in the round. In the 3rd round, that can be a very big difference. 95 to 108 is 32 points on the draft value chart. Just because maybe your mind doesn't understand the difference is no reason to continually repeat this tired silly opinion.
Simple fact, it's a 3rd round pick even if you want to for some reason make it seem worse.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
I disagree. Last year he made a bunch of short sighted moves and we're going to be paying for it in the coming years. The realization that it wasn't a good team only dawned on them halfway through the season at which point they started the rebuild 5 months late.
I think the reason that the Giants have failed is because of a lack of talent. The culture argument is a red herring to me and is basically being used as justification to purge the roster. I would argue that we've done that to a detriment of the team with cuts that had greater ability than the people that were brought in because of their affiliation with the previous regime.
But that's an endless debate on this site, and I'm sure it's been stated more eloquently than me.
He cant be any worse. Again outside of 2016.... which is 3 years....
Collins averaged 0 sacks and 1 INT during 2015, 2017, and 2018 - is that the kid of production you want from a safety?
It's the 95th pick and there are a few conditional draft picks after ours. Is there a huge difference between this being a 3rd rounder and 4th round draft pick. NO.
Yeah, those few picks are really nothing - oh but what happened when Jonathan Ogden was picked just ahead of the Giants and then the Giants got William Joseph? Extreme case yes. Point is, that 95 is still better than 96 or any other pick afterward.
At that point the talent differences are blurred, but it is still a 3rd round pick and maybe adding a 5th gets them to mid third round...
Ryan Dunleavy
Verified account @rydunleavy
51s51 seconds ago
Gettleman says he had talks about restructuring Manning salary caps number but they didn't. "We just keep moving." #giants
Translate: John said no f-ckin way are we lowering his number. In fact, let's do a bump...
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
7s8 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - spent time with peppers when he visited carolina at the time he entered the draft.......always had positive feeling about him
I was the only asshole growing up with a Betamax vcr. Im still damaged to this day.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
36s37 seconds ago
Gettleman: "I said it in Indianapoli sand I'll say it again: Once we got that o-line fixed (in second half of the year) look what we did on offense. This narrative that Eli is overpaid and can't play is a crock. I'm telling you!"
Quote:
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Agree 100%
+2. Me too. I don't get the bashing, he's been here for 1 year. He had a really good draft and we improved. IMO for some its all, and only, about not picking a QB last year.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
But what's his plan!?!?!?!?!?!?
Kimberly Jones
Verified account @KimJonesSports
29s29 seconds ago
Gettleman: On offense, you gotta have a QB run out there....this narrative that Eli is overpaid & cant play is a crock. It really is. Defends way Eli finishes the season. There really wasnt a decision to make. #nyg
Verified account
@KimJonesSports
47s48 seconds ago
More
Gettleman: On offense, you gotta have a QB run out there....this narrative that Eli is overpaid & cant play is a crock. It really is. Defends way Eli finishes the season. There really wasnt a decision to make. #nyg
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
36s37 seconds ago
Gettleman: "I said it in Indianapoli sand I'll say it again: Once we got that o-line fixed (in second half of the year) look what we did on offense. This narrative that Eli is overpaid and can't play is a crock. I'm telling you!"
And there you have it...no QB drafted this year.
Kimberly Jones
Verified account @KimJonesSports
29s29 seconds ago
Gettleman: On offense, you gotta have a QB run out there....this narrative that Eli is overpaid & cant play is a crock. It really is. Defends way Eli finishes the season. There really wasnt a decision to make. #nyg
Glad to see we are going the Dan Marino route with this.
Hopefully, we don't turn into the Miami Dolphins whenever Eli hangs them up.
He didn't play deep safety much at Michigan and had to learn the position, which he has done. And he's faster and cheaper than Collins. Unlike Collins he can actually cover TEs.
One of the tragedies of modern history was VHS winning that war. The Betamax picture quality was so much better.
This number one thing this team needs to do to start restoring confidence is land their franchise QB. Its the biggest question for the franchise. A year ago they elected to pass in favor of their hand of god/ generational running back and I think many are saying that's all fine, but we still need an answer for the most important position --here we are with two first round picks including one in the top 10, are we going to use them in some way, or punt on the QB again?
I said when DG was hired, the huge decisions were coach, the #2 pick, Odell contract, and Eli transition. We are still watching it all unfold, and the jury is very much out.
If the braintrust says none of these guys that are available are worth it (but perhaps the 2020 guys are), then you plow through full steam ahead and let the fans gripe. Like Parcells said, if you listen to the fans all the time, you'll join them.
Citing the performance of the offense last year just makes him sound really dumb.
It may simply be a wash, and that's fine considering the cost savings. We also have a better duo at Safety now than prior to letting Collins walk, so there's that too. Peppers also can help as a returner.
So nothing is certain, but if you are able to be even the least bit objective hear you can see that there's a lot to look forward to going this route, and this is coming from someone who really liked Collins.
Agreed, it's not just about highlights. But it's not like people care that much to look into the non-highlights, as there are still people trying to look for ways to accuse Beckham of questionable effort.
Plenty of tape out there of him run blocking his ass off. It's just easier to flap lips about diva nonsense.
And anyone suggesting Collins wasn't playing hard or wasn't tough is a fool. He played football through a torn labrum last year.
Citing the performance of the offense last year just makes him sound really dumb.
Why? The offense looked good at the end of the year.
This number one thing this team needs to do to start restoring confidence is land their franchise QB. Its the biggest question for the franchise. A year ago they elected to pass in favor of their hand of god/ generational running back and I think many are saying that's all fine, but we still need an answer for the most important position --here we are with two first round picks including one in the top 10, are we going to use them in some way, or punt on the QB again?
I said when DG was hired, the huge decisions were coach, the #2 pick, Odell contract, and Eli transition. We are still watching it all unfold, and the jury is very much out.
Thats just it, the number one thing this franchise needs to do is WIN. The qb narrative is out of control. Youre trying to tell me if the giants go 9-7 in 2019 with eli throwing for 4300 yards, 25 tds and 12 ints that the fan base and stupid fucking media wont calm down a bit?
Quote:
Jabrill fucking Peppers, who has done virtually nothing in two years in the league, is such an upgrade on Collins.
He cant be any worse. Again outside of 2016.... which is 3 years....
Collins averaged 0 sacks and 1 INT during 2015, 2017, and 2018 - is that the kid of production you want from a safety?
Collins is living on 2016. He was great that year.
He's been nothing but average as an overall player every other year.
I'll take a younger player and manageable contract, roll the dice.
Quote:
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
39s39 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - "it's not my responsibility to tell you guys "media" what i'm doing"..."trust me. we got a plan. over time, you've got to be patient."
Agreed - but his earlier comment about "having holes" and collecting draft capital does highlight that they are going to plug holes via the draft/. Maybe the first few picks are best player availble, but after that they will be filling needs.
Citing the performance of the offense last year just makes him sound really dumb.
Incredibly arrogant and dumb. Disaster.
Collins cap hit next 4 years: $62M total
Peppers is a MASSIVE upgrade over Collins at those figures.
It's not that Peppers is an all pro, it's that Collins is still living off 2016, which was 3 seasons ago. Since then, he's averaged:
13.5 games 1 INT, 5 PD 1 FF 1 FR ~100 tackles 4 TFL 2 QBHits
That's not exactly an all pro statline...
Quote:
its a team sport, highlight reel plays don't always translate into wins, and the object of the game is still to get the wins, not necessarily to get on sportscenter
Agreed, it's not just about highlights. But it's not like people care that much to look into the non-highlights, as there are still people trying to look for ways to accuse Beckham of questionable effort.
Plenty of tape out there of him run blocking his ass off. It's just easier to flap lips about diva nonsense.
And anyone suggesting Collins wasn't playing hard or wasn't tough is a fool. He played football through a torn labrum last year.
People arent questioning eithers effort (well maybe OBJ supposedly sitting out the last 4games healthy) but the point is simple with Beckham - his act wore thin. The staff and ownership had enough with him. They felt he was negative on the team. If thats the case, then its a wrap. He is a diva WR. Much like Owens, Moss, Ocho Cinco, Dez, etc.... sometimes their act was thin.
I think the majority of posters loved Collins all out play. I did. But thefact was he was going to get paid 14 million a year and was one dimensional with injury problems. Sometimes you have to know when to say no.
Citing the performance of the offense last year just makes him sound really dumb.
This draft is important, Im going to take a wait & see approach. In terms of national PR though, hell get torched for that presser.
This is the perfect collision of insanity and predictability.
if you are able to be even the least bit objective
Yeah...I don't think this is possible for Greg. Its gotten to the point where you scroll down and the second you see his name you know its going to be an opportunity to shit on something.
This is the perfect collision of insanity and predictability.
Yet you have been the one that the Giants shouldnt take a QB this year.
Do you complain jsut to complain?
That said, if you're going to keep Eli at $23M this year, you'd better win. 6-10 and Gettleman and Shurmur should both be shown the door.
I do think the odds of winning went up this past week. Cut out a lot of cancer.
In that scenario, Shurmur probably goes but DG will stay. I'm still not sure what the alternative to Eli is at this point, if you cut him you are forced to pick a QB. And what Free Agent is out there to be signed with the cap savings? Better to keep that savings on the books for 2021.
(1) We'll see real progress in terms of becoming a tougher, more physical, smarter football team (may or may not translate to many more wins).
(2) Or it will feel like the movie "Ground Hog Day" all over again.
Quote:
Paul Schwartz
Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz
1m1 minute ago
Gettleman says Giants got two first round picks and a third-round pick for Beckham.
LOL the 3rd rounder is basically a 4th rounder. Cool Dave.
Its a 3rd round pick. Not a fourth. Thanks.
Quote:
In comment 14344790 Greg from LI said:
if you are able to be even the least bit objective
Yeah...I don't think this is possible for Greg. Its gotten to the point where you scroll down and the second you see his name you know its going to be an opportunity to shit on something.
He's not the only one by a longshot.
Because one year doesn't carry into the next. And it ignores the fact that the offense was an atrocity for most of the season. It also ignores that the Giants lost the last three games of the season regardless...two of those at home, and one via shutout.
Last year was an abysmal failure. I wouldn't be citing it at all if I were Gettleman or Shurmur, and they've been doing just that all offseason.
Quote:
On offense, you gotta have a QB run out there....this narrative that Eli is overpaid & cant play is a crock. It really is. Defends way Eli finishes the season. There really wasnt a decision to make.
This is the perfect collision of insanity and predictability.
Yet you have been the one that the Giants shouldnt take a QB this year.
Do you complain jsut to complain?
Take a QB in the first round.
I would do it for free. You can keep the beer. Pat is a smarmy piece of shit.
What a smug sham of a "reporter".
I can't wait until this sorry excuse moves on from covering the Giants.
Can we have him cover the Jets instead?
Collins cap hit next 4 years: $62M total
Peppers is a MASSIVE upgrade over Collins at those figures.
Well Peppers is only signed for 2 years, though year 3 will hopefully be his option ~$10M. Still a bargain relative to Collins and should provide comparable performance at a minimum.
Quote:
Peppers cap hit next 4 years: $7.5M total
Collins cap hit next 4 years: $62M total
Peppers is a MASSIVE upgrade over Collins at those figures.
Well Peppers is only signed for 2 years, though year 3 will hopefully be his option ~$10M. Still a bargain relative to Collins and should provide comparable performance at a minimum.
My mistake. Misread the Spotrac page.
Quote:
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Agree 100%
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
Quote:
Peppers cap hit next 4 years: $7.5M total
Collins cap hit next 4 years: $62M total
Peppers is a MASSIVE upgrade over Collins at those figures.
Well Peppers is only signed for 2 years, though year 3 will hopefully be his option ~$10M. Still a bargain relative to Collins and should provide comparable performance at a minimum.
My mistake. Misread the Spotrac page.
Quote:
Jabrill fucking Peppers, who has done virtually nothing in two years in the league, is such an upgrade on Collins.
And no one is surprised to know you feel that way either.
Collins was an All-Pro and 2 or 3 time Pro Bowler who spent a lot of time covering up for the dreck at one corner spot and free safety and in the process covering up for the mistakes of others. It didn't take long for Gettlemen to throw 3+ million guaranteed a 32+ year old safety rather than put up with another season by Curtis Riley.
Tom Rock
Verified account @TomRock_Newsday
3s4 seconds ago
Gettleman: "You can win while you are building... They're not separate pieces."
True..they can win 5 games
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
You know, this comment is instructive. There are a whole bunch of people for whom this is paramount, much more important than the Giants not being a laughingstock. That, and making sure Eli Manning is Quarterback for Life.
Gettleman's awesome - he pisses off the right people and refuses to address the decline of Eli's play! Win-win even if the team is going nowhere.
(1) We'll see real progress in terms of becoming a tougher, more physical, smarter football team (may or may not translate to many more wins).
(2) Or it will feel like the movie "Ground Hog Day" all over again.
This is what you need to look at. You're going into year two with this regime. Arrow needs to start pointing upward...........
1000% agree
1000% correct
No, that's not really fair. I've given him a lot of credit for the moves made over the past week.
But that doesn't undo the brutal first year he had with this team, and it doesn't make it OK to keep citing last year as though it were a sign of upcoming success. 2019 will be its own animal...stop trying to sell us that 2018 was something other than a total nightmare.
Facts are inconvenient things. Peppers hasn't done much. As a former 1st round pick, he has to be chalked up at this point as "disappointing" which is why he was available in the first place.
Take a look at Peppers year this year. He was pretty damn productive. Williams used him very wisely.
Quote:
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
You know, this comment is instructive. There are a whole bunch of people for whom this is paramount, much more important than the Giants not being a laughingstock. That, and making sure Eli Manning is Quarterback for Life.
Gettleman's awesome - he pisses off the right people and refuses to address the decline of Eli's play! Win-win even if the team is going nowhere.
He might have his faults, but DG has 100% addressed the OL which is arguably the biggest reason behind Eli's poor play. And I would've had no problem moving on from Eli last year.
Hell, you can argue that fixing the OL is paramount to ensuring the next QB has a chance to succeed.
Quote:
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
You know, this comment is instructive. There are a whole bunch of people for whom this is paramount, much more important than the Giants not being a laughingstock. That, and making sure Eli Manning is Quarterback for Life.
Gettleman's awesome - he pisses off the right people and refuses to address the decline of Eli's play! Win-win even if the team is going nowhere.
Please, he could have gotten three 1st rounders and you would have bitched and told him to go watch "I dream of Jeannie" for the 10th time.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
53s54 seconds ago
#Giants Gettleman - on Eli and possible extension..... "we discussed it. today is the day when he gets his bonus and we just keep moving"
And there it is! Extending eli til he's 60!
Quote:
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
You know, this comment is instructive. There are a whole bunch of people for whom this is paramount, much more important than the Giants not being a laughingstock. That, and making sure Eli Manning is Quarterback for Life.
Gettleman's awesome - he pisses off the right people and refuses to address the decline of Eli's play! Win-win even if the team is going nowhere.
I believe he's addressed it. They didn't restructure, and right now there isn't an extension. We will know more come draft time on how he feels about the replacement being there this year.
What exactly do you want him to say prior to the draft? I'm genuinely curious what he could realistically say that would satisfy you.
Quote:
In comment 14344790 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Jabrill fucking Peppers, who has done virtually nothing in two years in the league, is such an upgrade on Collins.
And no one is surprised to know you feel that way either.
Facts are inconvenient things. Peppers hasn't done much. As a former 1st round pick, he has to be chalked up at this point as "disappointing" which is why he was available in the first place.
Collins was an All-Pro and 2 or 3 time Pro Bowler who spent a lot of time covering up for the dreck at one corner spot and free safety and in the process covering up for the mistakes of others. It didn't take long for Gettlemen to throw 3+ million guaranteed a 32+ year old safety rather than put up with another season by Curtis Riley.
Its great how you go into this big defense about why Collins performance hasn't been what it was since 2016, and yet all you can say about Peppers is that he hasn't done much. Thats probably because you don't know anything about how he was used and are just looking at his statistics.
Facts are inconvenient things indeed.
Please stop.
If you look at his body of work in its entirety for past 4 seasons - any sane person can see it's time to move on.
He really did make it seem like is was fait accompli.
Then again, it was...
When he talks about something that was in the past, he is more likely to give an honest comment.
When he talks about something that could happen in the future, every word will be calculated in a way to..
A. not tip his hand on what the real plan is
B. not lose leverage in a potential future deal
So, when some of you get triggered by a comment about Eli for example.. what benefit does it do to say anything other than something that shows total confidence in Eli? In fact, if he did otherwise, I would have a serious problem with that.
Look back at the OBJ comments from months ago. He said the plan was to keep Odell and you dont give up on talent. The simpletons now are freaking out "but but but he said..." The guy would have lost some leverage in a potential future negotiation if he came out and said "yeah we are seriously considering trading Odell."
(1) He's not afraid of change;
(2) He needs more than one year to be evaluated;
(3) In all fairness, I think he should be given a minimum of three years;
(4) But, if there is no sign of overall team performance in 2019, then I think he's on very shaky ground;
(5) There has got to be forward "progress" in 2019; not a play-off spot, but the general feeling that things are moving in the right direction.
(6) If by the end of 2020 Season, there isn't a positive development in the team's direction, Gettleman will be dropped, fired, kicked out the door.
(7) And, so too, the Head Coach.
(8) Bottom line, they both have two more years to show us what they've got!
if we had no intentions on signing him we would've shipped him.
shit happens.
I need more rumors from JT!!!
(1) We'll see real progress in terms of becoming a tougher, more physical, smarter football team (may or may not translate to many more wins).
(2) Or it will feel like the movie "Ground Hog Day" all over again.
No. It's irrefutable.
When he talks about something that was in the past, he is more likely to give an honest comment.
When he talks about something that could happen in the future, every word will be calculated in a way to..
A. not tip his hand on what the real plan is
B. not lose leverage in a potential future deal
So, when some of you get triggered by a comment about Eli for example.. what benefit does it do to say anything other than something that shows total confidence in Eli? In fact, if he did otherwise, I would have a serious problem with that.
Look back at the OBJ comments from months ago. He said the plan was to keep Odell and you dont give up on talent. The simpletons now are freaking out "but but but he said..." The guy would have lost some leverage in a potential future negotiation if he came out and said "yeah we are seriously considering trading Odell."
Youve been too positive of late. That in itself is scaring me..:)
He's an idiot
Nilay is waiting for 2025 to be able to stream live video.
When he talks about something that was in the past, he is more likely to give an honest comment.
When he talks about something that could happen in the future, every word will be calculated in a way to..
A. not tip his hand on what the real plan is
B. not lose leverage in a potential future deal
So, when some of you get triggered by a comment about Eli for example.. what benefit does it do to say anything other than something that shows total confidence in Eli? In fact, if he did otherwise, I would have a serious problem with that.
Look back at the OBJ comments from months ago. He said the plan was to keep Odell and you dont give up on talent. The simpletons now are freaking out "but but but he said..." The guy would have lost some leverage in a potential future negotiation if he came out and said "yeah we are seriously considering trading Odell."
Spot on.
See "we didn't sign Beckham to trade him..."
This narrative that Elis overpaid and cant play is a crock. With the way we ended the season, and what he's making, there really wasn't a decision to make."
Ummm....what in the f***ing f***?
Youve been too positive of late. That in itself is scaring me..:)
LOL !! No... I am not positive. I am just not going to be negative until I see more. We dont know how the trade will play out yet. Not only does it depend upon the draft picks but also how Peppers and Odell perform over the next couple of years. We also do not know what this final roster is going to be yet for this upcoming season.
Cannot make any predictions yet
Quote:
why this wasn't on the app.
Nilay is waiting for 2025 to be able to stream live video.
It was a conference call. Not sure what there really was to stream, unless they wanted fans to be able to listen to live audio of the call.
instead of pretending he came in here with a plan and its evolving as envisioned.
Quote:
In comment 14344760 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Agree 100%
And the more he pisses off the eternal whiners the more I like him
+infinity
-Blindly sticking with Eli
-Old man Gettleman still thinks its the 60s
-No plan/no vision
Its amazing to me, I really hope Gettleman proves everyone wrong.
1000% correct
Maybe not 1000% correct? I mean that statement is also him covering his ass a bit, no? I'm behind his moves and an Eli supporter, but it would have been nice to work out a 'restructured' deal...lower the cap hit, extend it so when it comes time to cut bait it makes it easier on the giants.....
instead of pretending he came in here with a plan and its evolving as envisioned.
Exactly. Last year most everything he did blew up in his face and yet he's pretending that it all played out the way he expected.
instead of pretending he came in here with a plan and its evolving as envisioned.
Hitdog, I think we need to make a distinction here. He probably should have said..
1. Our plan has not changed
2. The first year did not turn out as expected but we are going through the process and sticking to the plan.
This means the personnel was not what they expected... combination of people who were here + a few he brought in.
-Blindly sticking with Eli
who says we are blindly sticking with Eli? please elaborate
Quote:
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Agree 100%
Me too.
TheMick7 : 11:56 am : link : reply
conclusion the main reason he's here is he makes John Mara comfortable.I can't help but think if Louis Riddick had become the GM,we'd already be on our way to rebuilding,w/a possible contention by next season.
Meanwhile, Louis Riddick works for ESPN for the last 6 years.
Quote:
were this universally mocked by the national media.
-Blindly sticking with Eli
who says we are blindly sticking with Eli? please elaborate
Referencing the Philly game last year as a reason. Referencing the second half this year as a reason.
That seems like blindly sticking with Eli to me.
Perhaps,but you've followed the NFL long enough to know it's an old boys network (especially w/the Giants) & Gettleman was one of those old boys that Mara was comfortable with!
TheMick7 : 11:56 am : link : reply
conclusion the main reason he's here is he makes John Mara comfortable.I can't help but think if Louis Riddick had become the GM,we'd already be on our way to rebuilding,w/a possible contention by next season.
Meanwhile, Louis Riddick works for ESPN for the last 6 years.
Makes you wonder why he hasn't been hired
-Blindly sticking with Eli
-Old man Gettleman still thinks its the 60s
-No plan/no vision
Its amazing to me, I really hope Gettleman proves everyone wrong.
Unfortunately, don't expect it to stop anytime soon. This guy is getting absolutely killed nationally and locally in print media, online media, and on sports radio. The guys on ESPN Radio NY (Canty, Rothenberg, DiPietro) eviscerate him every damn day. If they NYG get off to a bad start next year, you might want to hide under a rock.
-Blindly sticking with Eli
-Old man Gettleman still thinks its the 60s
-No plan/no vision
Its amazing to me, I really hope Gettleman proves everyone wrong.
I do to and not for Gettlemans sake, as he seems to be a bit douchy too but for the sake of the Giants. I mean, does why does the media think its time to cut Eli and really gives Big (scumbag) Ben and Phil (chokey) Rivers a pass? Do they think its in DG and the Giants best interest to let the media in on 'the plan'? Does that even come close to reality? On the other hand his cockiness and some of his statements really seem to be unnecessarily condescending towards the media and fans...
I feel that he should be judged on this. If the 2019 NYGs are no better than the 2018 NYGs, DG should go. If the 2019 Eli is no better than 2018 Eli and there is no QB of the of the future on the roster to evaluate, DG should go. If he is right about both Eli and the Giants, extend the motherfucker and we should not doubt him anytime time soon. He made bold statements, I like that. He should be held accountable to those statements.
I want him to be correct so badly it hurts. Nothing would make me happier than the Giants and Eli doing well in 2019. It would be even better if OBJ and the Browns struggle.
TheMick7 : 11:56 am : link : reply
conclusion the main reason he's here is he makes John Mara comfortable.I can't help but think if Louis Riddick had become the GM,we'd already be on our way to rebuilding,w/a possible contention by next season.
Meanwhile, Louis Riddick works for ESPN for the last 6 years.
That's true but in a Catch-22 league where it's like a 16 year old trying to get his first job,"We can't hire you w/o experience" "But,how can I get experience if you won't hire me?" John Mara always goes w/comfort especially after the McAdoo debacle!
-Blindly sticking with Eli
-Old man Gettleman still thinks its the 60s
-No plan/no vision
Its amazing to me, I really hope Gettleman proves everyone wrong.
This team has had it coming for a while. They deserve zero benefit of the doubt...they have to earn it back.
Quote:
After listening to him for a year,I've come to the
TheMick7 : 11:56 am : link : reply
conclusion the main reason he's here is he makes John Mara comfortable.I can't help but think if Louis Riddick had become the GM,we'd already be on our way to rebuilding,w/a possible contention by next season.
Meanwhile, Louis Riddick works for ESPN for the last 6 years.
Makes you wonder why he hasn't been hired
Certainly does!
Quote:
They do get responsive. We saw that in full affect during Eli benching last year. A year later, they are following up a poor season with DG taking heat over Collins and Odell. Wonder how many letters have reached Mara in the past couple weeks.
This number one thing this team needs to do to start restoring confidence is land their franchise QB. Its the biggest question for the franchise. A year ago they elected to pass in favor of their hand of god/ generational running back and I think many are saying that's all fine, but we still need an answer for the most important position --here we are with two first round picks including one in the top 10, are we going to use them in some way, or punt on the QB again?
I said when DG was hired, the huge decisions were coach, the #2 pick, Odell contract, and Eli transition. We are still watching it all unfold, and the jury is very much out.
Thats just it, the number one thing this franchise needs to do is WIN. The qb narrative is out of control. Youre trying to tell me if the giants go 9-7 in 2019 with eli throwing for 4300 yards, 25 tds and 12 ints that the fan base and stupid fucking media wont calm down a bit?
(1) He's not afraid of change;
(2) He needs more than one year to be evaluated;
(3) In all fairness, I think he should be given a minimum of three years;
(4) But, if there is no sign of overall team performance in 2019, then I think he's on very shaky ground;
(5) There has got to be forward "progress" in 2019; not a play-off spot, but the general feeling that things are moving in the right direction.
(6) If by the end of 2020 Season, there isn't a positive development in the team's direction, Gettleman will be dropped, fired, kicked out the door.
(7) And, so too, the Head Coach.
(8) Bottom line, they both have two more years to show us what they've got!
Agree on all counts.
I keep saying that we are all frustrated since 2012, having not won anywhere near consistently, but DG can't worry about that. He's not worried about past failures in as much as he's got to follow his plan. Last year was rocky. On to the second year.
Next two years are huge, esp with the OBJ trade in the books.
Enti
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Once again confirming that Joey is my all time favorite football poster on this site.
He might have his faults, but DG has 100% addressed the OL which is arguably the biggest reason behind Eli's poor play. And I would've had no problem moving on from Eli last year.
Hell, you can argue that fixing the OL is paramount to ensuring the next QB has a chance to succeed.
He certainly has *tried*. I do think that Zeitler is going to help, but last year's OL had a lot of 'try' and not a lot of success. We'll have to wait and see if that improves this year, or maybe there was a reason the Browns decided to move on from Zeitler (beyond having a younger player waiting in the wings to move up).
And now, you've traded the best player on offense.
It won't happen until after the draft if it's their plan, I wouldn't rule it out.
Quote:so Collins was a me first type player? Please
In comment 14344760 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Agree 100%
+2. Me too. I don't get the bashing, he's been here for 1 year. He had a really good draft and we improved. IMO for some its all, and only, about not picking a QB last year.
I'm as skeptical as any, but the media is mostly effing clueless. I'm not sure what their opinion is some sort of bar for how good these decisions are.
A year ago the market determined that OBJ was worth $18MM per year. Now we get that money back (except for the dead money loss this year) plus a first round pick, a second round pick, and Peppers (plus turned a 5th round pick into a fourth rounder).
If Gettleman can turn that haul into 4 or 5 quality starters -- and I think he can -- this trade was an absolute steal for the Giants.
Quote:
In comment 14344907 Sean said:
Quote:
were this universally mocked by the national media.
-Blindly sticking with Eli
who says we are blindly sticking with Eli? please elaborate
Referencing the Philly game last year as a reason. Referencing the second half this year as a reason.
That seems like blindly sticking with Eli to me.
So what would your response have been? Please choose one or make up another if you dont like these choices..
1. Bench Eli for Lauletta who clearly is not the answer and NOT better than Eli.
2. Make a comment that Eli is not in our future (which is what people here want him to say).
3. Cut Eli before we owed him the salary bonus AND before we had a replacement. Then, the no plan talk would have been at an all time high.
4. Signed Fitzpatrick who is 36 yrs old
So, where is the blind part? I just want to know what DG should have done thus far about Eli. What would have been your plan?
Oh, it's coming.
And now, you've traded the best player on offense.
Eli Manning's last 8 games:
66% comp - 1922 yards - 13 TD - 5 Int - 99.86 QB Rating
Here's Eli's final numbers for 2018 (full season)
66% comp - 4299 yards - 21 TD - 11 Int - 92.4 QB Rating
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
A year ago the market determined that OBJ was worth $18MM per year. Now we get that money back (except for the dead money loss this year) plus a first round pick, a second round pick, and Peppers (plus turned a 5th round pick into a fourth rounder).
If Gettleman can turn that haul into 4 or 5 quality starters -- and I think he can -- this trade was an absolute steal for the Giants.
Did the market determine that or did the Giants along with OBJ's agents? I'm not naive enough to think that there weren't some conversations with teams, but at no point was he freely available to be signed elsewhere.
Further - that absolute 'steal' could have been had prior to re-signing him, without the $23M cap hit. That kind of kills the return on the deal.
instead of pretending he came in here with a plan and its evolving as envisioned.
See, I don't understand this logic. What else did you expect him to do? He eliminated like half the roster, and jettisoned dead weight. What else, seriously, are people expecting that he should have done? Are people really that hurt that we sucked again? Shouldn't that have been expected when we have had shitty drafts for 10 years, another new GM and a brand new coaching staff and new schemes? And did you want him to pull a decent OL out of his ass day one?
As moronic a take as I first viewed that report to be, I'm going to start believing it soon if the Giants don't give me any reason not to.
"But I won't tell you"
Seriously...
That is a complete joke
Quote:
Last year we thought we good plug some gaps and compete for a playoff run. we were wrong.
instead of pretending he came in here with a plan and its evolving as envisioned.
See, I don't understand this logic. What else did you expect him to do? He eliminated like half the roster, and jettisoned dead weight. What else, seriously, are people expecting that he should have done? Are people really that hurt that we sucked again? Shouldn't that have been expected when we have had shitty drafts for 10 years, another new GM and a brand new coaching staff and new schemes? And did you want him to pull a decent OL out of his ass day one?
You could start with an accurate assessment of the situation. If it wasn't possible to turn it around and win starting on day 1 - don't overpay for Solder, Omameh and Stewart. That would have been a really good start.
You have a very interesting definition of the word "terrific"
As moronic a take as I first viewed that report to be, I'm going to start believing it soon if the Giants don't give me any reason not to.
Correlation not causation, but it's scary to think of it that way. I think it's just a lot more likely that the Giants and Francesa are of like mind.
And the latter was fucking stupid enough to think he should have been offered a shot at managing the Yankees.
Quote:
we haven't even drafted yet and he's just what we need after Reese and Ross. We were in the stone age with them.
You have a very interesting definition of the word "terrific"
FA was up and down, but I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft. If he has the same (or close) caliber of draft this year, I'll be doing backflips.
It would be nice to see the last 4 games without Beckham and those alone.
Instead of more than likely inflating the numbers with the other 4.
So what would your response have been? Please choose one or make up another if you dont like these choices..
1. Bench Eli for Lauletta who clearly is not the answer and NOT better than Eli.
2. Make a comment that Eli is not in our future (which is what people here want him to say).
3. Cut Eli before we owed him the salary bonus AND before we had a replacement. Then, the no plan talk would have been at an all time high.
4. Signed Fitzpatrick who is 36 yrs old
So, where is the blind part? I just want to know what DG should have done thus far about Eli. What would have been your plan?
The fact that he said there wasn't even a decision to make is the blindly part.
Quote:
In comment 14344983 gtt350 said:
Quote:
we haven't even drafted yet and he's just what we need after Reese and Ross. We were in the stone age with them.
You have a very interesting definition of the word "terrific"
FA was up and down, but I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft. If he has the same (or close) caliber of draft this year, I'll be doing backflips.
The draft was great. I'm not as sold on Carter as everyone else is, but if he works out it will be an excellent draft getting 4 starters.
But this is DGs second season. Im not writing him off already because he doesnt live up to my narrative. Its possible that he knows better than me. (Id been bracing myself for him to replace Eli, and I was ready for that. That was my conclusion: DG knows better than me.)
Right now, Im keeping the faith... with fingers crossed. Lets see what happens in the draft.
I'm as skeptical as any, but the media is mostly effing clueless. I'm not sure what their opinion is some sort of bar for how good these decisions are.
Eli for anyone that doesnt have a blinding bias showed late last year with just passable (not even above average protection) he can still be an effective QB. And 3 of the last 4 games in which we scored 40, 27 and 35 pts were WITHOUT ObJ.
Eli isnt a guy who has take a ton of inuries robbing him of his ability to play QB. His arm may not be as strong as it was before, but it is strong enough and he can still hit the tough routes.
Quote:
fixed. He was as up and down the end of the year as he was in the beginning. His passer rating was 99 against Dallas and 68 against Houston.
And now, you've traded the best player on offense.
Eli Manning's last 8 games:
66% comp - 1922 yards - 13 TD - 5 Int - 99.86 QB Rating
Here's Eli's final numbers for 2018 (full season)
66% comp - 4299 yards - 21 TD - 11 Int - 92.4 QB Rating
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
Wow, right on Britt! Great point.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Our own history in looking for "character" players has been, to put it kindly, checkered (remember the "all team captains" concept-how'd that work out?). The guys we got rid of weren't criminals or drug addicts, and it is hard not to see some of this as a "get off my lawn" attitude by the owner and his obedient GM or trying to cover for a weak HC with zero track record who has no influence in the locker room or the FO. It is also not unreasonable to discount some of the most optimistic view and see the S received as a total disappointment to his old team, the "tenacious" receiver as being a 9 yard average, lost a step, duplicative of what we already have, and or that what we have seen in Hill and Carter is what we get.
The "have a plan" people are mainly concerned with qb. I don't care what the plan is or what it is supposed to be being more concerned with improving the talent level and speed on the team. So far, I see a step-forward step-back. We got a guard at the expense of getting worse at wideout and improved on D by getting rid of Riley but at the expense of getting worse at the other safety position and at DE.
So, would that your faith is rewarded and things work out as you say, but I can understand those who are having a crisis of faith.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
Quote:
fixed. He was as up and down the end of the year as he was in the beginning. His passer rating was 99 against Dallas and 68 against Houston.
And now, you've traded the best player on offense.
Eli Manning's last 8 games:
66% comp - 1922 yards - 13 TD - 5 Int - 99.86 QB Rating
Here's Eli's final numbers for 2018 (full season)
66% comp - 4299 yards - 21 TD - 11 Int - 92.4 QB Rating
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
Except that's not how it works.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
English that is a GREAT way to put it.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
Or they know they know they don't have a better option right now (in free agency). Lauletta stunk last year. He may develop but he also may be a bust. Rosen, Haskins, Murray, etc... they are not on this team right now. And they may not even be viable options.
No question
Pat Hanlon is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
FA was definitely hit or miss but like this year not much money to play with. Solder did play like Solder in the 2nd half. Ogletree was pretty good.
This year 14 picks to play with. Going to be very interesting.
FA was definitely hit or miss but like this year not much money to play with. Solder did play like Solder in the 2nd half. Ogletree was pretty good.
This year 14 picks to play with. Going to be very interesting.
12
Quote:
Pat Hanlon is one of the nicest most generous people I've ever met. I'm sure many on here can attest to that.
No question
Pat Hanlon is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
100%
Well, is the statement true? Did the O get better or was it a mirage?
Quote:
.
It would be nice to see the last 4 games without Beckham and those alone.
Instead of more than likely inflating the numbers with the other 4.
Okay, last 8 games with and without Beckham:
With:
81/121 886 yards 67% comp 7 TD's 2 INT's
Without
84/140 1036 yards 60% comp. 6 TD's 3 INT's
Not a huge drop off or difference.
Meh. Barkley obviously played well, but the fact that the team was still atrocious just lends more credence to the fact that RB is not a position that has much impact on wins and losses.
Hernandez was a good pick, improved a good bit over the course of the season.
Carter has some promise but didn't do a whole helluva lot last year beyond an occasional flash. He has a lot to prove.
People make a LOT of hay out of Hill and for the life of me I don't understand why. Yeah, he had 3 sacks against the Bears. Swell. In the other 15 games, he was an adequate starter on a horrendous defense. Maybe he's an average starter at the position. Not exactly someone to turn cartwheels over at this point.
Lauletta? Lulz.
It was basically a lost season for McIntosh. Only played six games and didn't do much when he did play.
So, in total, he picked one legit star at a position of relative unimportance, one solid interior lineman, one edge rusher who flashed occasional promise but didn't get all that much PT despite having total dreck playing ahead of him, one DT who might be an average NFL starter, and one DT who is a total mystery. Oh, and a joke of a QB.
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
Quote:
Gettleman: "I said it in Indianapoli sand I'll say it again: Once we got that o-line fixed (in second half of the year) look what we did on offense.
Well, is the statement true? Did the O get better or was it a mirage?
Better than the first half? Sure. Was it an actual good offense? Hell no.
Quote:
In comment 14344818 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Gettleman: "I said it in Indianapoli sand I'll say it again: Once we got that o-line fixed (in second half of the year) look what we did on offense.
Well, is the statement true? Did the O get better or was it a mirage?
Better than the first half? Sure. Was it an actual good offense? Hell no.
We scored:
27, 38, 22, 30, 40, 0, 27, 35
We scored over 30 4 times in the last 8 games, including hitting 40 points once.
We rushed the ball for 1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry, and 128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
That's not good offense?
Quote:
fixed. He was as up and down the end of the year as he was in the beginning. His passer rating was 99 against Dallas and 68 against Houston.
And now, you've traded the best player on offense.
Eli Manning's last 8 games:
66% comp - 1922 yards - 13 TD - 5 Int - 99.86 QB Rating
Here's Eli's final numbers for 2018 (full season)
66% comp - 4299 yards - 21 TD - 11 Int - 92.4 QB Rating
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
Quote:
In comment 14345050 The 12th Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14344818 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Gettleman: "I said it in Indianapoli sand I'll say it again: Once we got that o-line fixed (in second half of the year) look what we did on offense.
Well, is the statement true? Did the O get better or was it a mirage?
Better than the first half? Sure. Was it an actual good offense? Hell no.
We scored:
27, 38, 22, 30, 40, 0, 27, 35
We scored over 30 4 times in the last 8 games, including hitting 40 points once.
We rushed the ball for 1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry, and 128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
That's not good offense?
Why are you even bothering? Honestly?
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
A post from EA! Nice.
We scored:
27, 38, 22, 30, 40, 0, 27, 35
We scored over 30 4 times in the last 8 games, including hitting 40 points once.
We rushed the ball for 1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry, and 128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
That's not good offense?
Of course not, we played backup QBs who dont play defense. And we failed to score on a final drive twice, even though the offense dominated for the majority of the game.
Did you see us against Tennesee in a monsoon? Expect more of those type of games in those conditions!
1. draft our next QB while solidifying the defense;
2. totally address the defense and OL if we don't like a QB who's there when we pick;
3. give us the ammunition to trade up for our QB of the future while still addressing other team needs...
I think you're being blind.
And sticking with Eli has more to do with trying to have a successful season while also rebuilding than any loyalty to him. We don't have anyone else competent to play the position right now. What's so hard to understand about that?
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
I don't think there's much of a predictive quality to a partial season, however I also think it's fair to say the offense was good the 2nd half of last year. Each year starts mostly as a blank slate but they showed more in the 2nd half last year than they have in probably any year since Gillbride.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Dave Gettleman referenced the offensive line play in the second half of the season improving. That is why I cut it up. And the numbers back up that they did, in fact, improve.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
Haha. So now the narrative is that even if we want to rebuild and "build" the team, which is what we are doing, we can't, because every year is a different year?
Quote:
I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft.
Meh. Barkley obviously played well, but the fact that the team was still atrocious just lends more credence to the fact that RB is not a position that has much impact on wins and losses.
Hernandez was a good pick, improved a good bit over the course of the season.
Carter has some promise but didn't do a whole helluva lot last year beyond an occasional flash. He has a lot to prove.
People make a LOT of hay out of Hill and for the life of me I don't understand why. Yeah, he had 3 sacks against the Bears. Swell. In the other 15 games, he was an adequate starter on a horrendous defense. Maybe he's an average starter at the position. Not exactly someone to turn cartwheels over at this point.
Lauletta? Lulz.
It was basically a lost season for McIntosh. Only played six games and didn't do much when he did play.
So, in total, he picked one legit star at a position of relative unimportance, one solid interior lineman, one edge rusher who flashed occasional promise but didn't get all that much PT despite having total dreck playing ahead of him, one DT who might be an average NFL starter, and one DT who is a total mystery. Oh, and a joke of a QB.
I think you are seriously downplaying some of these picks to fit your narrative. "adequate" or "average" NFL starter out of a 3rd round pick (BJ Hill) would qualify as a successful pick for any GM in the league.
Again, I like most of the moves Gettleman has made this offseason. But they don't offset his terrible 2018, and they don't make it OK to pay Eli $23M when we could have saved $17M by cutting him. That isn't OK.
Please stop.
If you look at his body of work in its entirety for past 4 seasons - any sane person can see it's time to move on.
This is the part where people start banging their heads against the wall. Over the last 4 years we all knew that the OL has been the issue. Yet, you can not give credit where credit is due. Eli played better down the stretch when he had protection this is an absolute fact. Now read between the lines, he told you they discussed a contract extension. If DG wanted to give one he would have done it before this bonus hit today. This means ELI needs to prove it with the new OL to stay or he is gone after this year.
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
This value equation hinges on 2 things:
1. An evaluation of Rosen who is way under market or a willingness to sign a Fitzpatrick level caretaker. Neither is unreasonable, but neither is a no-brainer.
2. There's not a lot of evidence Eli had anything to do with not getting the guys you mentioned - both of whom it was reported DG tried to sign. Could they have way overpaid to get those guys in the building? Maybe. But they could have done that anyway if they felt it was worth it. Weddle had like 10 teams interested and the NYG weren't even in his final cut of 5 teams. With the number of draft picks they have this year there may already be a tighter roster for veteran depth this year than other years.
It may be the best way to go to trade for Rosen right now and spend an extra $15m adding Justin Houston and a RT, and whoever else you like that's out there. Or it may be that there's a QB they like better in the draft so there's no point in wasting assets on Rosen. IMO it's not quite black and white yet. I think Jones is earmarked for that 17th pick.
You could start with an accurate assessment of the situation. If it wasn't possible to turn it around and win starting on day 1 - don't overpay for Solder, Omameh and Stewart. That would have been a really good start.
Well, I'm not sure how much better you can assess what you have without actually being in the mix on a day to day basis. If McAdoo stayed on as the coach then at least DG can make some decisions based on coaching input, but we not only had to have a GM learn everyone from scratch but a whole new coaching staff learn them as well. They weren't going to give up on any 1st rnd picks (Flowers, Apple) right away because this roster was already decimated by years of bad drafting. He knew he had to add a FA on the OL as first order of business. There was no way around paying that person. He went after Norwell first and when he was gone he went after the next best available, Solder. He HAD to pay that contract. And I feel like Solder and Hernandez were a very good pair starting after the bye. Omameh and Stewart were not good moves but clearly you aren't going to hit on every move you make.
1. draft our next QB while solidifying the defense;
2. totally address the defense and OL if we don't like a QB who's there when we pick;
3. give us the ammunition to trade up for our QB of the future while still addressing other team needs...
I think you're being blind.
And sticking with Eli has more to do with trying to have a successful season while also rebuilding than any loyalty to him. We don't have anyone else competent to play the position right now. What's so hard to understand about that?
spot on.
But I think most of us feel like they were playing more competitive football than they were in 2017. Barkley was a huge part of that. The coaching seemed better in the second half of the season as they committed to Barkley more. Defense was a mess. They had their best special teams year in recent memory.
We have to see if they improve upon this, stay the same, or get worse.
Again, I like most of the moves Gettleman has made this offseason. But they don't offset his terrible 2018, and they don't make it OK to pay Eli $23M when we could have saved $17M by cutting him. That isn't OK.
I firmly belief ownership is calling the shots with eli, whether thats right or wrong can be debated. but i think if they were fully hands off, eli would not be on the team. Also there is still plenty of opportunity to bring in a young qb, it would leave them pretty desperate if they cut Eli before they have someone else on board and could handcuff them in trying to make a move. literally the only rationalize i have left.
That is a really, really low bar to clear.
Again, I like most of the moves Gettleman has made this offseason. But they don't offset his terrible 2018, and they don't make it OK to pay Eli $23M when we could have saved $17M by cutting him. That isn't OK.
$17 Million can cover up a lot of holes for multiple years.. We could've had the top Rt and Center for that money and I believe that helps our team more than the drop from Someone like Eli to Fitzpatrick..
Reese obsolutely nailed the 2007 draft, which was a BIG factor in winning SB42. Then Got JPP and Cruz to help win 46, but he's labeled as a complete buffoon around here now.
And perhaps not coincidentally, the guy who left the field early, has issues with water, and couldn't play the last four games after playing the previous one with the same injury just got traded.
"Dilfered two Super Bowls" - This may be the dumbest comment I've ever read in the 25 years of this site.
Quote:
the narrative is that if you went 5-11 last year you should stop citing any part of it as a success, because it wasn't.
Again, I like most of the moves Gettleman has made this offseason. But they don't offset his terrible 2018, and they don't make it OK to pay Eli $23M when we could have saved $17M by cutting him. That isn't OK.
I firmly belief ownership is calling the shots with eli, whether thats right or wrong can be debated. but i think if they were fully hands off, eli would not be on the team. Also there is still plenty of opportunity to bring in a young qb, it would leave them pretty desperate if they cut Eli before they have someone else on board and could handcuff them in trying to make a move. literally the only rationalize i have left.
This is what worries me and it scary as shit.. For the past 3 years decisions have been made differently for all other payers than Eli.. I personally won't be surprised if we extend Eli next year because Tua looks injury prone and other QBs are not guranteed to be good
I'm... skeptical.
Quote:
fixed. He was as up and down the end of the year as he was in the beginning. His passer rating was 99 against Dallas and 68 against Houston.
And now, you've traded the best player on offense.
Eli Manning's last 8 games:
66% comp - 1922 yards - 13 TD - 5 Int - 99.86 QB Rating
Here's Eli's final numbers for 2018 (full season)
66% comp - 4299 yards - 21 TD - 11 Int - 92.4 QB Rating
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
Going by the numbers on ESPN (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/5526/eli-manning) I get 99.85 for the first half and 92.06 for the last eight games. So, markedly worse. In addition, he was up and down like I said. Three of his below-80 rating games came in the back half and three in first half.
Quote:
Through the losing has been number 10. He Dilfered two Super Bowls and unless the defense regains that form were in for a repeat of the last seven years. But with Eli, emotion trumps logic and Father Time.
"Dilfered two Super Bowls" - This may be the dumbest comment I've ever read in the 25 years of this site.
He's been trolling this site for years. Its amazing no one else sees it.
Quote:
Through the losing has been number 10. He Dilfered two Super Bowls and unless the defense regains that form were in for a repeat of the last seven years. But with Eli, emotion trumps logic and Father Time.
"Dilfered two Super Bowls" - This may be the dumbest comment I've ever read in the 25 years of this site.
By definition, you cannot "Dilfer" two superbowls. Brad Johnson "Dilfered" a SB, Nick Foles, slightly more than "Dilfered" a SB. Eli Manning was anything but a Dilfer in those runs.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Oh, I get it, you have to look at the total train wreck. You can not evaluate players when they came in and played better at the end of the year. So when we evaluate players and positions we have to focus from game 1 only. Thank God you are not the GM. Some of the people or should I say most of the people that made the O suck are gone. You never answer the actual question, Does Rivers, Ben R, Brady, Brees suck? Why don't they suck? BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FUCKING OL!!!!!!!! next question WHY ARE YOU SO THICK IN THE HEAD? ELI IS NOT THE PROBLEM. If he is unsuccessful with the OL we are putting together this year then knock yourself out. When your QB is always on his back right after the snap how do you expect him to function? You need to have a quality OL we have not had that in a long time.
When somebody points out during his end of season presser, that some of their wins came against backup QB's,
'that's a crock'.
Eli is overpaid, 'that's a crock'.
He amuses himself at least.
To not make Eli with a 23 mill. cap hit take a pay cut,
is just plain ludicrous!
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Me too
Quote:
One - you don't get to just cut the season up however you want. Last year's Giants averaged 23 points a game. It wasn't a good offense.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Oh, I get it, you have to look at the total train wreck. You can not evaluate players when they came in and played better at the end of the year. So when we evaluate players and positions we have to focus from game 1 only. Thank God you are not the GM. Some of the people or should I say most of the people that made the O suck are gone. You never answer the actual question, Does Rivers, Ben R, Brady, Brees suck? Why don't they suck? BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FUCKING OL!!!!!!!! next question WHY ARE YOU SO THICK IN THE HEAD? ELI IS NOT THE PROBLEM. If he is unsuccessful with the OL we are putting together this year then knock yourself out. When your QB is always on his back right after the snap how do you expect him to function? You need to have a quality OL we have not had that in a long time.
Well Eli is certainly no solution around here, it's been
like that for a few years now. So if you are not part of the solution, hence you are part of the problem.
Sure there are other problems here as well.
And for a number of years with Eli.
I continue to find that absolutely impossible to reconcile as a legitimate strategy.
The primary question is how long will it take for that to happen and how many functional years does Manning have left.
Yet again the Giants likely have 3/5 of a new line. The Giants have a pretty unimpressive core of receivers. Defenses will sell out to stop Barkley, and Manning is a year older.
By people who dont understand how to tie their shoes. The mob mentality over this OBJ trade is quite humorous.
No one cares any more. He's getting paid more than anyone on this team, plays the most important position on the field, and HAS to take more responsibility for what actually plays out on the field more than any other PLAYER on the team.
He is 38-57 the past 6 years.
He has led the Giants to one playoff birth in the last 6 years.
He has led this team to a last or 2nd to last finish in the NFC east 5 of the last six years.
Who gives a shit how well he played against the Eagles two years ago in a regular season game.
Who gives a shit about how the offense was marginally better against a run of BS games to close out a meaningless season.
I love him - but his HofF career is over. Everyone knows how this scenario plays out. We've seen this move over and over again. It's time to move on b/c we've seen how it ends. At this point anyone trying to defend this move of running Eli out there as the only QB option again this year is either overly optimistic or just plain dumb.
because they 'got an offer they couldn't refuse'.
I am not too sure about that, the third round pick is the
Pats pick at the end of the round. I believe the Pats had traded that 3rd pick to the Brownies, for Danny Shelton.
I think he could have got a little more, that's how I feel.
Maybe a first, second and Peppers. At least, their earlier
3rd Rd. Pick (their own pick).
I think you post some great stuff. And nobody is more irritated with Eli and the Mannings more than me. But Dilfer was a total passenger on that Ravens team in 2000.
If that D had their way that year, they would have run the Wildcat with Jamal.
And perhaps not coincidentally, the guy who left the field early, has issues with water, and couldn't play the last four games after playing the previous one with the same injury just got traded.
I honestly dont care what we looked like in a small sample size without Beckham. If you want to see the horrifying splits, look at Elis numbers with and without OBJ since OBJ entered the league. That will not paint a pretty picture for the gallery here.
This is Groundhog Day, and I voted according on the BBI poll. But DAG has pulled the wool over many eyes here. A whopping 49% are optimistic. I have no idea where that comes from. Just look at Twitter and see the laughingstock weve become to objective people. But some numbnut GM wants to run it back with Eli again and will build around him to this teams long term detriment, again. I cant believe this.
Quote:
One - you don't get to just cut the season up however you want. Last year's Giants averaged 23 points a game. It wasn't a good offense.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Oh, I get it, you have to look at the total train wreck. You can not evaluate players when they came in and played better at the end of the year. So when we evaluate players and positions we have to focus from game 1 only. Thank God you are not the GM. Some of the people or should I say most of the people that made the O suck are gone. You never answer the actual question, Does Rivers, Ben R, Brady, Brees suck? Why don't they suck? BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FUCKING OL!!!!!!!! next question WHY ARE YOU SO THICK IN THE HEAD? ELI IS NOT THE PROBLEM. If he is unsuccessful with the OL we are putting together this year then knock yourself out. When your QB is always on his back right after the snap how do you expect him to function? You need to have a quality OL we have not had that in a long time.
It's harder to build an offensive line when you're overpaying your QB.
As for me not being the GM, I don't know. I could argue I've been ahead of the GMs on this team on some major shit since about 2016.
Quote:
fixed. He was as up and down the end of the year as he was in the beginning. His passer rating was 99 against Dallas and 68 against Houston.
And now, you've traded the best player on offense.
Eli Manning's last 8 games:
66% comp - 1922 yards - 13 TD - 5 Int - 99.86 QB Rating
Here's Eli's final numbers for 2018 (full season)
66% comp - 4299 yards - 21 TD - 11 Int - 92.4 QB Rating
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
There you go letting facts get in the way of a narrative.
I posted the numbers. Sacks went way down. Rushing went way up. Passing stayed steady. We scored a lot of points. That's improvement of the offensive line. I'm sorry if it doesn't fit with what some of you thought you saw.
That's right, give Eli his due, he was great the entire
2011 season IMO. He was clutch at the end of 2007 SB run.
I may not be happy with him now, folks lets not get carried away with it. When he is gone, I'll certainly appreciate
his durability at QB.
Guess the Mods are too busy running and stickying their own Mock drafts. LOL.
Quote:
In comment 14345076 Go Terps said:
Quote:
One - you don't get to just cut the season up however you want. Last year's Giants averaged 23 points a game. It wasn't a good offense.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Oh, I get it, you have to look at the total train wreck. You can not evaluate players when they came in and played better at the end of the year. So when we evaluate players and positions we have to focus from game 1 only. Thank God you are not the GM. Some of the people or should I say most of the people that made the O suck are gone. You never answer the actual question, Does Rivers, Ben R, Brady, Brees suck? Why don't they suck? BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FUCKING OL!!!!!!!! next question WHY ARE YOU SO THICK IN THE HEAD? ELI IS NOT THE PROBLEM. If he is unsuccessful with the OL we are putting together this year then knock yourself out. When your QB is always on his back right after the snap how do you expect him to function? You need to have a quality OL we have not had that in a long time.
It's harder to build an offensive line when you're overpaying your QB.
As for me not being the GM, I don't know. I could argue I've been ahead of the GMs on this team on some major shit since about 2016.
What is the going rate for an NFL QB. They are paying him what he is worth?
Right up until the point where they play a defense that knows what they're doing and wants to make a point.
Guess the Mods are too busy running and stickying their own Mock drafts. LOL.
The press conference was held at 11AM. I don't have the transcript yet. As soon as it is released, I will post it. As I always do. There is no video because it was a conference call.
Agreed. Too strong of a statement. Were either great performances? Was scoring 17 and 21 the kind of output we thought necessary to win those SBs? No and no. But they surely weren't "Dilfer'd". They were solid and most important, mistake free.
Quote:
Through the losing has been number 10. He Dilfered two Super Bowls and unless the defense regains that form were in for a repeat of the last seven years. But with Eli, emotion trumps logic and Father Time.
"Dilfered two Super Bowls" - This may be the dumbest comment I've ever read in the 25 years of this site.
Agreed
And perhaps not coincidentally, the guy who left the field early, has issues with water, and couldn't play the last four games after playing the previous one with the same injury just got traded.
Even still the audio should have been streamed or at the least available (by now) for listening. Instead, fans are left to discern what DG said based on twitter posts by some reporters who frankly have an agenda (Pat Leonard). I've been listening to sound bytes on NFL Live, and quite frankly the Eli part sounds different coming direct from DG than the twitter posts.
Quote:
cherry pick games from Eli's previous year to defend why he is the starting QB again the next year is nauseating.
Please stop.
If you look at his body of work in its entirety for past 4 seasons - any sane person can see it's time to move on.
This is the part where people start banging their heads against the wall. Over the last 4 years we all knew that the OL has been the issue. Yet, you can not give credit where credit is due. Eli played better down the stretch when he had protection this is an absolute fact. Now read between the lines, he told you they discussed a contract extension. If DG wanted to give one he would have done it before this bonus hit today. This means ELI needs to prove it with the new OL to stay or he is gone after this year.
Are you kidding me with this?
The Eli Manning led Giants won 4 of the last 8.
They beat three equally hopeless teams (SF, TB, Wash) playing for nothing with backup QBs and had a nice showing against the Bears (who were also playing with a backup QB - but put up a good game against a good def).
Eli Manning passing yardages those last 8 games were:
180,196,276,197,175,213,309,298.
To blindly follow the idea that Eli's 2nd half "resurgence" is clearly going to set this team up for future success is just silly.
What if it doesn't?
You going to say the same thing again next year?
Quote:
Honestly I SO want this offense to just really kick ass this year just to shut everyone the hell up about Eli already.
What if it doesn't?
You going to say the same thing again next year?
No, why would I?
The FO has said time and again that finding our next QB is one of the major tasks going forward. They've also said that picking the wrong guy can set you back years.
Imo they're trying hard to find the next guy, but also recognizing that we need a lot more talent all around the roster to be a good team. So they're trying to do two things at once in a situation where there isn't an easy fix.
Maybe they were wrong not to take Darnold, Allen or Rosen last year. Time will tell whether any of those guys are franchise QBs. But at this point there's no one better equipped than Eli to lead the team this year. He's older, worse, perhaps shell shocked from past OL play, but still better than anyone else available.
I'm hoping that we select one of the 1st round QBs this year. But if not I'm hoping that we add the final piece to the OL and then make our defense as physical and fast as possible, and perhaps become a team that can win with a game manager because it's so good elsewhere.
This may be a two season project. We're 8/24 over the past two years, so it may take two drafts to bring us up to the quality of teams in our Division like Dallas and Philly. But I'd argue that we have more potential to do so after the OBJ trade and acquisition of Zeitler than we were two weeks ago.
Quote:
In comment 14345390 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Honestly I SO want this offense to just really kick ass this year just to shut everyone the hell up about Eli already.
What if it doesn't?
You going to say the same thing again next year?
No, why would I?
I don't know why your saying it this year...so lord knows why you would next year too :)?
I'm sure there's all sorts of things that you could search for to find hope that Eli still has it - especially since you can for this season.
Quote:
So what would your response have been? Please choose one or make up another if you dont like these choices..
1. Bench Eli for Lauletta who clearly is not the answer and NOT better than Eli.
2. Make a comment that Eli is not in our future (which is what people here want him to say).
3. Cut Eli before we owed him the salary bonus AND before we had a replacement. Then, the no plan talk would have been at an all time high.
4. Signed Fitzpatrick who is 36 yrs old
So, where is the blind part? I just want to know what DG should have done thus far about Eli. What would have been your plan?
The fact that he said there wasn't even a decision to make is the blindly part.
once again.. you are someone who is taking every word he says literally without understanding the gamesmanship involved with making a comment that completely backs current starting QB.
Maybe you should ask to see his draft board. Then, when he gives you a fake one you will complain after the draft that he did not draft according to the board he shared publicly.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Quote:
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Me too
Woah did someone say grit?
Quote:
Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Thanks Eric for contributing what is most likely the most rational post on this thread that will unfortunately be ignored by most.
"Championship"
-Bill Belichick
Yeah just leave out the high character talented players like Barkley, Solder, Hill, Tomlinson, Ogletree, Zeitler, Eli, etc.
Quote:
In comment 14345498 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Thanks Eric for contributing what is most likely the most rational post on this thread that will unfortunately be ignored by most.
"rational left this place a long time ago"
Quote:
Lol. Anyone who says Eli "Dilfered" two super bowls should have their fucking handle deleted.
Agreed. Too strong of a statement. Were either great performances? Was scoring 17 and 21 the kind of output we thought necessary to win those SBs? No and no. But they surely weren't "Dilfer'd". They were solid and most important, mistake free.
Why do people insist on demanding a certain typecast for football players? The world may never know. It's just what I think of when fans wax poetic about 'grit'.
I would expect another 1-2 years of Eli as starter and who knows what sort of shape SB or the rest of the team will be in.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Things I've learned while reading this thread:
(1) The Giants 8-0 playoff run in 2007 and 2011 had NOTHING to do with Eli Manning.
(2) Eli Manning is a complainer.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Agreed. It really is perplexing that people can't grasp this concept.
Quote:
Tell that to Ben McAdoo
Things I've learned while reading this thread:
(1) The Giants 8-0 playoff run in 2007 and 2011 had NOTHING to do with Eli Manning.
(2) Eli Manning is a complainer.
Amazing, isn't it? Discredit one of the finest and professional players in Giants history.
What did he complain about?
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I'm glad someone else noticed this. The guy said he wanted to avoid QB hell while standing firmly at the center of it.
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I get it now. You are one of the fans that never did (and probably never will) get over the fact that we didn't take Sam Darnold.
Quote:
Why do people insist on makiing fools of themselves with posts like these?
Why do people insist on demanding a certain typecast for football players? The world may never know. It's just what I think of when fans wax poetic about 'grit'.
Leave me out of this
Quote:
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
So what if they don't like Rosen (as some reports say) OR they are simply asking way too much from a team that has holes galore on defense.
And what if they don't like the QBs in this year's draft?
I think DG is going with what his best option is right now, and that's Eli.
Yes DG talks about avoiding QB hell and we are in the middle of it right now with an aging QB. No one said getting out of it was easy.
To draft a QB simply to say you have something new isn't the way to get it done, and DG knows that.
I would expect another 1-2 years of Eli as starter and who knows what sort of shape SB or the rest of the team will be in.
"The rest of the team" is going to mostly be draft picks selected either last year (7), this year (currently 12), or next year (currently 9). Stockpiling draft picks is the right move right now, as is using that stockpile to find the QB of the future.
Whether Eli starts games between now and then is of little consequence to properly rebuilding through the draft. Getting those picks right is going to sink or swim Gettleman.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
Quote:
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
Why would they win sooner? His contract is up after this year, so right now we don't have a QB beyond 2019.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
I have no idea what DG is doing about the QB position other than what he has said publicly.
I sure hope he's looking into all those other options - but i don't know.
Quote:
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
OK - that sounds great, but how do you know the Cardinals are taking offers right now or that they aren't asking for 3 first rounders? Beyond that, the Giants front office did its homework on Rosen last year and maybe they think he's a jackass.
That is QB Hell butt...
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
OK - let's say you cut him and go with Lauletta. When it becomes clear that Lauletta is not a starting caliber QB you are back where you started. You didn't build toward anything.
There is NO VALID/CORRECT/PERFECT/Insert-adjective-here WAY to replace an Eli at the end of his career. This is all just bullshit opinion from armchair QB fans (myself included).
Again I so hope Eli SLAYS it next year to at least tamp some of this shit down. Reese and regime failed Eli miserably in the back half of his career. It's pretty clear to my eyes the guy can still play IF HE HAS ADEQUATE blocking, which he hasn't had in a LONG time. That not only cost Eli the back half of his career, it also cost the jobs of a great HC and OC.
I know this guy can still play behind decent OL. And I want this team to be competitive REGARDLESS of who is behind center. The team needs to be rebuilt and there is no better option at QB on the roster right now. Nobody has any clue if we might even be working to get Murray (which would be MY choice). I am willing to give DG next year to show MARKED improvement to the roster and team competitiveness. Let's give the guy more than one season for crissakes and stop crying about the best Giants QB in my lifetime.
Pull on your big boy pants and root for your g*d*mn team you bunch of Nancies! lol
Anything beats paying what the NYG are paying for a guy with 8 wins in two years.
That's what 8 wins the past two years - they are paying a little over $23 mil this year and paid him $41 million the last two years before that....and DG is saying his being over paid is a crock?
Quote:
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
Eli is not what he once was but he is still way better than Taylor, Bridgewater, and Fitz in my opinion. It's a one year deal too, so there is no commitment to Eli next year. Signing any of those other QB's would probably result in dead money next year and it does nothing to rebuild this roster. It's not like we aren't signing someone because of Eli (at least I don't think that is the case).
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
I don't disagree with most of this post, but IMO if they draft 1 of the QB's this year, I have no issue with that guy going into the season behind Eli. That's actually probably my preferred option vs. pinning hopes to next year's crop of QB's or trading for someone else's flawed QB option (like Rosen).
If they determine he has enough arm talent, I think Daniel Jones at 17 makes a lot of sense. He reminds me of Phillip Rivers, with more mobility. Or Wentz with less arm talent.
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
But this Eli decision is as dumb as it gets. And, I believe, an albatross to really move forward. It wreaks of sentimentality, naivety, delusion, fear, and cow-towing to a fan base that would rather watch Eli more than moving forward and building a long-term solution.
If DG really think Eli is the best solution available than you have to be dubious about him selecting the next QB.
Because after reading Shurmur's quotes last week about the ideal QB he wants to run his offense, it's crystal clear he wants to move on from Eli. Anything else out of his mouth is him just towing the company line...
Frankly, with the possible exceptions of Mike Francesa and Stephen A. Smith, most reporters would much prefer to be told an interesting lie rather than the boring truth. The boring truth does not sell copy.
Quote:
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Agreed. It really is perplexing that people can't grasp this concept.
Some of us are actually thinking that Giants FO actually thinks he is the Long term solution.. Nothing that has been done so far shows otherwise.. They haven't asked Eli to take a pay cut. They didn't look for another QB to come in for a cheaper price.. They actually came up with the BS stat that Giants are the highest scoring team in NFC east as if it matters and BTW we are not the highest scoring offense in the NFC east.. Nothing Eli has done over the past 3 years justifies anything.. I have no trust that the Giants don't try to extend him next year..
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
I question if there's enough talent left in FA to get enough surplus value with the $17m compared to signing more modest guys. They can already afford a RT Remmers, Veldeheer, or Schraeder, there's not really a better option out there for more money.
Justin Houston is probably the guy in FA who could get the most $ in a 1 year deal, I'm not sure he moves the needle enough to be worth starting Lauletta - who isn't even a powerball ticket at this point. He's a scratch off.
Who do you think they should have signed? We should have learned from experience that it's best to sit out the first wave of FA because you always grossly overpay for marginal talent.
I firmly believe Gettleman and Shurmur were hired because they told Mara what he wanted to hear about Eli.
I was annoyed McAdoo benched Eli for Geno Smith and I still think he handled it the wrong way but I see where he was coming from. McAdoo probably reacted a little late actually, Manning was a punchline in the national conversation before that benching. But he was still two seasons (and counting) ahead of the current Giants management group.
Anyway nothing I can do about it so I just have to go along for the ride. Been watching Eli play ineffective football and throw devastating interceptions for years now, whats another season (or two, or three)?
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing.
How? I would argue it's the worst outcome - unless it leads to SB.
It would lead to the same season ending evaluation - Eli stays. And the circular error just continues...
I hope the Giants plan is to have him mentor a rookie QB this year and the overpay in 2019 is a move made out of respect to a franchise legend. In that case, I'm okay with it. The arguments that spin it any other way ring hollow to me.
I will say Eli - bridge QB - young kid sounds more logical to me. Eli's era ends, you bring in a Tyrod Taylor type and still remain competitive. Everyone including the fans now know you've moved into a new era and truthfully many here would probably be less frustrated since our direction is more clear.
I do not think Eli and the young grasshopper on the same roster is a great idea, now they both have to answer questions about each other and it once again makes a situation that could be drama free kinda volatile.
While you can make the argument Eli may be better than a fringe street starter in terms of play, i think the benefits of moving on off the field favor bringing in a different stopgap.
Let Eli ride off into the sunset - let one chapter end and then start another.
I hope i am humbled and he surprises us this year.
Ok that makes more sense - and I think that's a somewhat fair position.
I personally disagree with it because I don't think Lauletta is a reasonable option (nor a vet placeholder like Fitzmagic). So I understand not cutting Eli if they didn't like the options available. We don't even know if Rosen is 100% available yet and I'd personally prefer our qb of the future to be more mobile.
With all the draft picks they've added the next 2 years, my #1 option by far is to find a guy they like and get him for a full 5 years at rookie scale. Keeping Eli to give that player time to get acclimated is a benefit in my mind. Especially if it ends up being Murray or Haskins since each had so few starts in CFB.
Quote:
Facts are inconvenient things. Peppers hasn't done much. As a former 1st round pick, he has to be chalked up at this point as "disappointing" which is why he was available in the first place.
Take a look at Peppers year this year. He was pretty damn productive. Williams used him very wisely.
And the draft next year also
Quote:
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
So having 8 figures in cap space is more important than winning games? Because none of those guys are a lock for more than 5 wins next year.
We needed 3 pieces to the OL....so far we have one.....
12 picks? Most are after the 3rd round....have to be extremely lucky....or used them to package a move up.....
The smart move was to cut Eli and use the 17M either this year or next.....go full rebuild, and get a high draft choice next year....I don't mind losing, when you plan on losing....but when you tell us you are trying to win, and lose, that's a whole other ball game that we have been listening to for years....
This entire argument is based on one's evaluation of Eli's play right now. It is subjective. Because it's subjective no one is going to admit they're wrong or change their opinion.
Threads are not going to stop anytime soon. This will be in the discussion for the entire year 2019. Hoping it stops is futile. Buckle up, we're going to complain about every aspect of this for the entire year.
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
None of them wanted to play here. The player has to choose to play here when hes a free agent. The money in a vacuum doesnt mean shit.
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
Eli is the future.
Wait until the extension is announced for 3 yrs/$60M, $45 guaranteed.
I just feel it comin'...
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
What a crock. I am hoping we somehow end up with Kyler Murray.
But to say Eli's just done and completely holding the offense back without heavily factoring in the OL situation is absurd. And thinking he can still win with an actual NFL level OL is a justifiable position to hold. And dumping him at all costs is just goofy.
Well I was responding to your first sentence... "No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago..." Yada yada yada.
Start your own thread if you want to debate a different topic...
The NYG do not.
DG will lucky to tread water until he hands the job off to Kevin Abrams in 2-3 years.
Start your own thread if you want to debate a different topic...
Well maybe I'm missing something but I feel like my response is completely relevant to what you posted...