Last year we thought we good plug some gaps and compete for a playoff run. we were wrong.
instead of pretending he came in here with a plan and its evolving as envisioned.
See, I don't understand this logic. What else did you expect him to do? He eliminated like half the roster, and jettisoned dead weight. What else, seriously, are people expecting that he should have done? Are people really that hurt that we sucked again? Shouldn't that have been expected when we have had shitty drafts for 10 years, another new GM and a brand new coaching staff and new schemes? And did you want him to pull a decent OL out of his ass day one?
You could start with an accurate assessment of the situation. If it wasn't possible to turn it around and win starting on day 1 - don't overpay for Solder, Omameh and Stewart. That would have been a really good start.
Over the last 2 years they've done exactly what Francesa has rambled on about on his show. Almost completely everything he has rambled about. Even right down to the type of compensation they should be seeking in trades. And now I see they're putting Gettleman on the program this afternoon when there's no reason to.
As moronic a take as I first viewed that report to be, I'm going to start believing it soon if the Giants don't give me any reason not to.
Correlation not causation, but it's scary to think of it that way. I think it's just a lot more likely that the Giants and Francesa are of like mind.
And the latter was fucking stupid enough to think he should have been offered a shot at managing the Yankees.
RE: RE: DG is doing a terrific job, for god sakes Â
we haven't even drafted yet and he's just what we need after Reese and Ross. We were in the stone age with them.
You have a very interesting definition of the word "terrific"
FA was up and down, but I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft. If he has the same (or close) caliber of draft this year, I'll be doing backflips.
So what would your response have been? Please choose one or make up another if you dont like these choices..
1. Bench Eli for Lauletta who clearly is not the answer and NOT better than Eli.
2. Make a comment that Eli is not in our future (which is what people here want him to say).
3. Cut Eli before we owed him the salary bonus AND before we had a replacement. Then, the no plan talk would have been at an all time high.
4. Signed Fitzpatrick who is 36 yrs old
So, where is the blind part? I just want to know what DG should have done thus far about Eli. What would have been your plan?
The fact that he said there wasn't even a decision to make is the blindly part.
RE: RE: RE: DG is doing a terrific job, for god sakes Â
we haven't even drafted yet and he's just what we need after Reese and Ross. We were in the stone age with them.
You have a very interesting definition of the word "terrific"
FA was up and down, but I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft. If he has the same (or close) caliber of draft this year, I'll be doing backflips.
The draft was great. I'm not as sold on Carter as everyone else is, but if he works out it will be an excellent draft getting 4 starters.
Yeah, I’m not saying I’m on board with the OBJ trade Â
Not at all. He’s been the only reason to even watch the Giants. Loved him here.
But this is DG’s second season. I’m not writing him off already because he doesn’t live up to my narrative. It’s possible that he knows better than me. (I’d been bracing myself for him to replace Eli, and I was ready for that. That was my conclusion: DG knows better than me.)
Right now, I’m keeping the faith... with fingers crossed. Let’s see what happens in the draft.
I'm as skeptical as any, but the media is mostly effing clueless. I'm not sure what their opinion is some sort of bar for how good these decisions are.
Eli for anyone that doesnt have a blinding bias showed late last year with just passable (not even above average protection) he can still be an effective QB. And 3 of the last 4 games in which we scored 40, 27 and 35 pts were WITHOUT ObJ.
Eli isnt a guy who has take a ton of inuries robbing him of his ability to play QB. His arm may not be as strong as it was before, but it is strong enough and he can still hit the tough routes.
RE: RE: I don't know how you say Eli played well once they got the o line Â
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
You made your feelings plain in your first sentence. I think the rest of the piece presents the most optimistic view of the possible results.
Our own history in looking for "character" players has been, to put it kindly, checkered (remember the "all team captains" concept-how'd that work out?). The guys we got rid of weren't criminals or drug addicts, and it is hard not to see some of this as a "get off my lawn" attitude by the owner and his obedient GM or trying to cover for a weak HC with zero track record who has no influence in the locker room or the FO. It is also not unreasonable to discount some of the most optimistic view and see the S received as a total disappointment to his old team, the "tenacious" receiver as being a 9 yard average, lost a step, duplicative of what we already have, and or that what we have seen in Hill and Carter is what we get.
The "have a plan" people are mainly concerned with qb. I don't care what the plan is or what it is supposed to be being more concerned with improving the talent level and speed on the team. So far, I see a step-forward step-back. We got a guard at the expense of getting worse at wideout and improved on D by getting rid of Riley but at the expense of getting worse at the other safety position and at DE.
So, would that your faith is rewarded and things work out as you say, but I can understand those who are having a crisis of faith.
with doing a presser at this time is you can be only so honest and in fact you really want to be quite dishonest so I'd say judge DG on what he does and not what he says.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
RE: RE: I don't know how you say Eli played well once they got the o line Â
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
with doing a presser at this time is you can be only so honest and in fact you really want to be quite dishonest so I'd say judge DG on what he does and not what he says.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
with doing a presser at this time is you can be only so honest and in fact you really want to be quite dishonest so I'd say judge DG on what he does and not what he says.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
Or they know they know they don't have a better option right now (in free agency). Lauletta stunk last year. He may develop but he also may be a bust. Rosen, Haskins, Murray, etc... they are not on this team right now. And they may not even be viable options.
I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft.
Meh. Barkley obviously played well, but the fact that the team was still atrocious just lends more credence to the fact that RB is not a position that has much impact on wins and losses.
Hernandez was a good pick, improved a good bit over the course of the season.
Carter has some promise but didn't do a whole helluva lot last year beyond an occasional flash. He has a lot to prove.
People make a LOT of hay out of Hill and for the life of me I don't understand why. Yeah, he had 3 sacks against the Bears. Swell. In the other 15 games, he was an adequate starter on a horrendous defense. Maybe he's an average starter at the position. Not exactly someone to turn cartwheels over at this point.
Lauletta? Lulz.
It was basically a lost season for McIntosh. Only played six games and didn't do much when he did play.
So, in total, he picked one legit star at a position of relative unimportance, one solid interior lineman, one edge rusher who flashed occasional promise but didn't get all that much PT despite having total dreck playing ahead of him, one DT who might be an average NFL starter, and one DT who is a total mystery. Oh, and a joke of a QB.
It doesn't seem to me like the Giants have actually looked to upgrade on Eli (from a production AND cost standpoint).
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
My hope is that this is true. It is very possible be that those stats are better because some of the teams we were playing against were bad or not playing for anything in the second half. As long as we hold Gettleman accountable if he is wrong I am good. It is too important to get a pass over being incorrect in your evaluation of the QB on your team.
with doing a presser at this time is you can be only so honest and in fact you really want to be quite dishonest so I'd say judge DG on what he does and not what he says.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
We scored over 30 4 times in the last 8 games, including hitting 40 points once.
We rushed the ball for 1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry, and 128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
That's not good offense?
Of course not, we played backup QBs who dont play defense. And we failed to score on a final drive twice, even though the offense dominated for the majority of the game.
Did you see us against Tennesee in a monsoon? Expect more of those type of games in those conditions!
If people don't see that acquiring the extra picks gives DG Â
1. draft our next QB while solidifying the defense;
2. totally address the defense and OL if we don't like a QB who's there when we pick;
3. give us the ammunition to trade up for our QB of the future while still addressing other team needs...
I think you're being blind.
And sticking with Eli has more to do with trying to have a successful season while also rebuilding than any loyalty to him. We don't have anyone else competent to play the position right now. What's so hard to understand about that?
however there's no point in being hyperbolic if your going to accept the premise. The second half they averaged 27 ppg. That would have been a top 5 number in the league. It also happened that came after the bye week, after they got the OL more settled, and after they started running more.
I don't think there's much of a predictive quality to a partial season, however I also think it's fair to say the offense was good the 2nd half of last year. Each year starts mostly as a blank slate but they showed more in the 2nd half last year than they have in probably any year since Gillbride.
One - you don't get to just cut the season up however you want. Last year's Giants averaged 23 points a game. It wasn't a good offense.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Dave Gettleman referenced the offensive line play in the second half of the season improving. That is why I cut it up. And the numbers back up that they did, in fact, improve.
Gettleman has been the GM of the team for yup...all of 1 season. He made some good draft picks, and just corrected our cap situation for 2020. We will have possibly the most cap room in all of football next year. Guess nobody wants to talk about that part.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
Haha. So now the narrative is that even if we want to rebuild and "build" the team, which is what we are doing, we can't, because every year is a different year?
you're actually including the Bears game as proof? Â
When nearly half of their points came on an pick 6 and a WR option TD thrown by Odell? Or the Eagles game where the offense did absolutely nothing in the second half while the Eagles came back to win? Or Dallas in a game where Dallas had absolutely nothing to play for except avoiding injuries, and rested a bunch of starters for most of the game? Is putting up some points on fellow sorryass teams like Tampa and SF really something you want to toot your horn about?
RE: RE: RE: RE: DG is doing a terrific job, for god sakes Â
I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft.
Meh. Barkley obviously played well, but the fact that the team was still atrocious just lends more credence to the fact that RB is not a position that has much impact on wins and losses.
Hernandez was a good pick, improved a good bit over the course of the season.
Carter has some promise but didn't do a whole helluva lot last year beyond an occasional flash. He has a lot to prove.
People make a LOT of hay out of Hill and for the life of me I don't understand why. Yeah, he had 3 sacks against the Bears. Swell. In the other 15 games, he was an adequate starter on a horrendous defense. Maybe he's an average starter at the position. Not exactly someone to turn cartwheels over at this point.
Lauletta? Lulz.
It was basically a lost season for McIntosh. Only played six games and didn't do much when he did play.
So, in total, he picked one legit star at a position of relative unimportance, one solid interior lineman, one edge rusher who flashed occasional promise but didn't get all that much PT despite having total dreck playing ahead of him, one DT who might be an average NFL starter, and one DT who is a total mystery. Oh, and a joke of a QB.
I think you are seriously downplaying some of these picks to fit your narrative. "adequate" or "average" NFL starter out of a 3rd round pick (BJ Hill) would qualify as a successful pick for any GM in the league.
the narrative is that if you went 5-11 last year you should stop citing any part of it as a success, because it wasn't.
Again, I like most of the moves Gettleman has made this offseason. But they don't offset his terrible 2018, and they don't make it OK to pay Eli $23M when we could have saved $17M by cutting him. That isn't OK.
cherry pick games from Eli's previous year to defend why he is the starting QB again the next year is nauseating.
Please stop.
If you look at his body of work in its entirety for past 4 seasons - any sane person can see it's time to move on.
This is the part where people start banging their heads against the wall. Over the last 4 years we all knew that the OL has been the issue. Yet, you can not give credit where credit is due. Eli played better down the stretch when he had protection this is an absolute fact. Now read between the lines, he told you they discussed a contract extension. If DG wanted to give one he would have done it before this bonus hit today. This means ELI needs to prove it with the new OL to stay or he is gone after this year.
It doesn't seem to me like the Giants have actually looked to upgrade on Eli (from a production AND cost standpoint).
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
This value equation hinges on 2 things:
1. An evaluation of Rosen who is way under market or a willingness to sign a Fitzpatrick level caretaker. Neither is unreasonable, but neither is a no-brainer.
2. There's not a lot of evidence Eli had anything to do with not getting the guys you mentioned - both of whom it was reported DG tried to sign. Could they have way overpaid to get those guys in the building? Maybe. But they could have done that anyway if they felt it was worth it. Weddle had like 10 teams interested and the NYG weren't even in his final cut of 5 teams. With the number of draft picks they have this year there may already be a tighter roster for veteran depth this year than other years.
It may be the best way to go to trade for Rosen right now and spend an extra $15m adding Justin Houston and a RT, and whoever else you like that's out there. Or it may be that there's a QB they like better in the draft so there's no point in wasting assets on Rosen. IMO it's not quite black and white yet. I think Jones is earmarked for that 17th pick.
RE: RE: RE: would have been great to hear him say Â
You could start with an accurate assessment of the situation. If it wasn't possible to turn it around and win starting on day 1 - don't overpay for Solder, Omameh and Stewart. That would have been a really good start.
Well, I'm not sure how much better you can assess what you have without actually being in the mix on a day to day basis. If McAdoo stayed on as the coach then at least DG can make some decisions based on coaching input, but we not only had to have a GM learn everyone from scratch but a whole new coaching staff learn them as well. They weren't going to give up on any 1st rnd picks (Flowers, Apple) right away because this roster was already decimated by years of bad drafting. He knew he had to add a FA on the OL as first order of business. There was no way around paying that person. He went after Norwell first and when he was gone he went after the next best available, Solder. He HAD to pay that contract. And I feel like Solder and Hernandez were a very good pair starting after the bye. Omameh and Stewart were not good moves but clearly you aren't going to hit on every move you make.
RE: If people don't see that acquiring the extra picks gives DG Â
1. draft our next QB while solidifying the defense;
2. totally address the defense and OL if we don't like a QB who's there when we pick;
3. give us the ammunition to trade up for our QB of the future while still addressing other team needs...
I think you're being blind.
And sticking with Eli has more to do with trying to have a successful season while also rebuilding than any loyalty to him. We don't have anyone else competent to play the position right now. What's so hard to understand about that?
But I think most of us feel like they were playing more competitive football than they were in 2017. Barkley was a huge part of that. The coaching seemed better in the second half of the season as they committed to Barkley more. Defense was a mess. They had their best special teams year in recent memory.
We have to see if they improve upon this, stay the same, or get worse.
"But I won't tell you"
Seriously...
That is a complete joke
Quote:
Last year we thought we good plug some gaps and compete for a playoff run. we were wrong.
instead of pretending he came in here with a plan and its evolving as envisioned.
See, I don't understand this logic. What else did you expect him to do? He eliminated like half the roster, and jettisoned dead weight. What else, seriously, are people expecting that he should have done? Are people really that hurt that we sucked again? Shouldn't that have been expected when we have had shitty drafts for 10 years, another new GM and a brand new coaching staff and new schemes? And did you want him to pull a decent OL out of his ass day one?
You could start with an accurate assessment of the situation. If it wasn't possible to turn it around and win starting on day 1 - don't overpay for Solder, Omameh and Stewart. That would have been a really good start.
You have a very interesting definition of the word "terrific"
As moronic a take as I first viewed that report to be, I'm going to start believing it soon if the Giants don't give me any reason not to.
Correlation not causation, but it's scary to think of it that way. I think it's just a lot more likely that the Giants and Francesa are of like mind.
And the latter was fucking stupid enough to think he should have been offered a shot at managing the Yankees.
Quote:
we haven't even drafted yet and he's just what we need after Reese and Ross. We were in the stone age with them.
You have a very interesting definition of the word "terrific"
FA was up and down, but I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft. If he has the same (or close) caliber of draft this year, I'll be doing backflips.
It would be nice to see the last 4 games without Beckham and those alone.
Instead of more than likely inflating the numbers with the other 4.
So what would your response have been? Please choose one or make up another if you dont like these choices..
1. Bench Eli for Lauletta who clearly is not the answer and NOT better than Eli.
2. Make a comment that Eli is not in our future (which is what people here want him to say).
3. Cut Eli before we owed him the salary bonus AND before we had a replacement. Then, the no plan talk would have been at an all time high.
4. Signed Fitzpatrick who is 36 yrs old
So, where is the blind part? I just want to know what DG should have done thus far about Eli. What would have been your plan?
The fact that he said there wasn't even a decision to make is the blindly part.
Quote:
In comment 14344983 gtt350 said:
Quote:
we haven't even drafted yet and he's just what we need after Reese and Ross. We were in the stone age with them.
You have a very interesting definition of the word "terrific"
FA was up and down, but I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft. If he has the same (or close) caliber of draft this year, I'll be doing backflips.
The draft was great. I'm not as sold on Carter as everyone else is, but if he works out it will be an excellent draft getting 4 starters.
But this is DG’s second season. I’m not writing him off already because he doesn’t live up to my narrative. It’s possible that he knows better than me. (I’d been bracing myself for him to replace Eli, and I was ready for that. That was my conclusion: DG knows better than me.)
Right now, I’m keeping the faith... with fingers crossed. Let’s see what happens in the draft.
I'm as skeptical as any, but the media is mostly effing clueless. I'm not sure what their opinion is some sort of bar for how good these decisions are.
Eli for anyone that doesnt have a blinding bias showed late last year with just passable (not even above average protection) he can still be an effective QB. And 3 of the last 4 games in which we scored 40, 27 and 35 pts were WITHOUT ObJ.
Eli isnt a guy who has take a ton of inuries robbing him of his ability to play QB. His arm may not be as strong as it was before, but it is strong enough and he can still hit the tough routes.
Quote:
fixed. He was as up and down the end of the year as he was in the beginning. His passer rating was 99 against Dallas and 68 against Houston.
And now, you've traded the best player on offense.
Eli Manning's last 8 games:
66% comp - 1922 yards - 13 TD - 5 Int - 99.86 QB Rating
Here's Eli's final numbers for 2018 (full season)
66% comp - 4299 yards - 21 TD - 11 Int - 92.4 QB Rating
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
Wow, right on Britt! Great point.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Our own history in looking for "character" players has been, to put it kindly, checkered (remember the "all team captains" concept-how'd that work out?). The guys we got rid of weren't criminals or drug addicts, and it is hard not to see some of this as a "get off my lawn" attitude by the owner and his obedient GM or trying to cover for a weak HC with zero track record who has no influence in the locker room or the FO. It is also not unreasonable to discount some of the most optimistic view and see the S received as a total disappointment to his old team, the "tenacious" receiver as being a 9 yard average, lost a step, duplicative of what we already have, and or that what we have seen in Hill and Carter is what we get.
The "have a plan" people are mainly concerned with qb. I don't care what the plan is or what it is supposed to be being more concerned with improving the talent level and speed on the team. So far, I see a step-forward step-back. We got a guard at the expense of getting worse at wideout and improved on D by getting rid of Riley but at the expense of getting worse at the other safety position and at DE.
So, would that your faith is rewarded and things work out as you say, but I can understand those who are having a crisis of faith.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
Quote:
fixed. He was as up and down the end of the year as he was in the beginning. His passer rating was 99 against Dallas and 68 against Houston.
And now, you've traded the best player on offense.
Eli Manning's last 8 games:
66% comp - 1922 yards - 13 TD - 5 Int - 99.86 QB Rating
Here's Eli's final numbers for 2018 (full season)
66% comp - 4299 yards - 21 TD - 11 Int - 92.4 QB Rating
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
Except that's not how it works.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
English that is a GREAT way to put it.
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
Or they know they know they don't have a better option right now (in free agency). Lauletta stunk last year. He may develop but he also may be a bust. Rosen, Haskins, Murray, etc... they are not on this team right now. And they may not even be viable options.
No question
Pat Hanlon is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
FA was definitely hit or miss but like this year not much money to play with. Solder did play like Solder in the 2nd half. Ogletree was pretty good.
This year 14 picks to play with. Going to be very interesting.
FA was definitely hit or miss but like this year not much money to play with. Solder did play like Solder in the 2nd half. Ogletree was pretty good.
This year 14 picks to play with. Going to be very interesting.
12
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Pat Hanlon is one of the nicest most generous people I've ever met. I'm sure many on here can attest to that.
No question
Pat Hanlon is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
100%
Well, is the statement true? Did the O get better or was it a mirage?
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.
It would be nice to see the last 4 games without Beckham and those alone.
Instead of more than likely inflating the numbers with the other 4.
Okay, last 8 games with and without Beckham:
With:
81/121 886 yards 67% comp 7 TD's 2 INT's
Without
84/140 1036 yards 60% comp. 6 TD's 3 INT's
Not a huge drop off or difference.
Meh. Barkley obviously played well, but the fact that the team was still atrocious just lends more credence to the fact that RB is not a position that has much impact on wins and losses.
Hernandez was a good pick, improved a good bit over the course of the season.
Carter has some promise but didn't do a whole helluva lot last year beyond an occasional flash. He has a lot to prove.
People make a LOT of hay out of Hill and for the life of me I don't understand why. Yeah, he had 3 sacks against the Bears. Swell. In the other 15 games, he was an adequate starter on a horrendous defense. Maybe he's an average starter at the position. Not exactly someone to turn cartwheels over at this point.
Lauletta? Lulz.
It was basically a lost season for McIntosh. Only played six games and didn't do much when he did play.
So, in total, he picked one legit star at a position of relative unimportance, one solid interior lineman, one edge rusher who flashed occasional promise but didn't get all that much PT despite having total dreck playing ahead of him, one DT who might be an average NFL starter, and one DT who is a total mystery. Oh, and a joke of a QB.
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
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Gettleman: "I said it in Indianapoli sand I'll say it again: Once we got that o-line fixed (in second half of the year) look what we did on offense.
Well, is the statement true? Did the O get better or was it a mirage?
Better than the first half? Sure. Was it an actual good offense? Hell no.
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In comment 14344818 Greg from LI said:
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Gettleman: "I said it in Indianapoli sand I'll say it again: Once we got that o-line fixed (in second half of the year) look what we did on offense.
Well, is the statement true? Did the O get better or was it a mirage?
Better than the first half? Sure. Was it an actual good offense? Hell no.
We scored:
27, 38, 22, 30, 40, 0, 27, 35
We scored over 30 4 times in the last 8 games, including hitting 40 points once.
We rushed the ball for 1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry, and 128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
That's not good offense?
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fixed. He was as up and down the end of the year as he was in the beginning. His passer rating was 99 against Dallas and 68 against Houston.
And now, you've traded the best player on offense.
Eli Manning's last 8 games:
66% comp - 1922 yards - 13 TD - 5 Int - 99.86 QB Rating
Here's Eli's final numbers for 2018 (full season)
66% comp - 4299 yards - 21 TD - 11 Int - 92.4 QB Rating
Here's what really changed from the first to last 8 games:
1st 8 games:
Sacked 31 times
623 rushing yards averaging 4.2 per carry
77.9 rushing yards per game avg.
last 8 games:
Sacked 16 times
1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry
128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
Offensive line was the difference.
What that tells me is that Manning's full season numbers, had he had the protection and running game in the first 8 games that he had in the last 8 games could actually be much higher.
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In comment 14345050 The 12th Man said:
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In comment 14344818 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Gettleman: "I said it in Indianapoli sand I'll say it again: Once we got that o-line fixed (in second half of the year) look what we did on offense.
Well, is the statement true? Did the O get better or was it a mirage?
Better than the first half? Sure. Was it an actual good offense? Hell no.
We scored:
27, 38, 22, 30, 40, 0, 27, 35
We scored over 30 4 times in the last 8 games, including hitting 40 points once.
We rushed the ball for 1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry, and 128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
That's not good offense?
Why are you even bothering? Honestly?
Reading between the lines, I believe they evaluated Eli, came to the conclusion that he can still win if surrounded by a strong OL and running game but will actively look to upgrade.
To put it another way, Eli cannot make his OL look better but he can make his WRs look better. Until they can find a guy who can do both (Murray?) they might as well build the OL and D up. I'm fine with that.
A post from EA! Nice.
We scored:
27, 38, 22, 30, 40, 0, 27, 35
We scored over 30 4 times in the last 8 games, including hitting 40 points once.
We rushed the ball for 1027 rushing yards averaging 5.0 per carry, and 128.4 rushing yards per game avg.
That's not good offense?
Of course not, we played backup QBs who dont play defense. And we failed to score on a final drive twice, even though the offense dominated for the majority of the game.
Did you see us against Tennesee in a monsoon? Expect more of those type of games in those conditions!
1. draft our next QB while solidifying the defense;
2. totally address the defense and OL if we don't like a QB who's there when we pick;
3. give us the ammunition to trade up for our QB of the future while still addressing other team needs...
I think you're being blind.
And sticking with Eli has more to do with trying to have a successful season while also rebuilding than any loyalty to him. We don't have anyone else competent to play the position right now. What's so hard to understand about that?
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
I don't think there's much of a predictive quality to a partial season, however I also think it's fair to say the offense was good the 2nd half of last year. Each year starts mostly as a blank slate but they showed more in the 2nd half last year than they have in probably any year since Gillbride.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
What we know is the Giants are paying $23M for a 38 year old QB who is far from an elite player. That is bad business.
Dave Gettleman referenced the offensive line play in the second half of the season improving. That is why I cut it up. And the numbers back up that they did, in fact, improve.
Two - Even if they'd averaged 50 points a game last year, this is a different year and a different team.
Haha. So now the narrative is that even if we want to rebuild and "build" the team, which is what we are doing, we can't, because every year is a different year?
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I think you can admit he had a pretty terrific draft.
Meh. Barkley obviously played well, but the fact that the team was still atrocious just lends more credence to the fact that RB is not a position that has much impact on wins and losses.
Hernandez was a good pick, improved a good bit over the course of the season.
Carter has some promise but didn't do a whole helluva lot last year beyond an occasional flash. He has a lot to prove.
People make a LOT of hay out of Hill and for the life of me I don't understand why. Yeah, he had 3 sacks against the Bears. Swell. In the other 15 games, he was an adequate starter on a horrendous defense. Maybe he's an average starter at the position. Not exactly someone to turn cartwheels over at this point.
Lauletta? Lulz.
It was basically a lost season for McIntosh. Only played six games and didn't do much when he did play.
So, in total, he picked one legit star at a position of relative unimportance, one solid interior lineman, one edge rusher who flashed occasional promise but didn't get all that much PT despite having total dreck playing ahead of him, one DT who might be an average NFL starter, and one DT who is a total mystery. Oh, and a joke of a QB.
I think you are seriously downplaying some of these picks to fit your narrative. "adequate" or "average" NFL starter out of a 3rd round pick (BJ Hill) would qualify as a successful pick for any GM in the league.
Again, I like most of the moves Gettleman has made this offseason. But they don't offset his terrible 2018, and they don't make it OK to pay Eli $23M when we could have saved $17M by cutting him. That isn't OK.
Please stop.
If you look at his body of work in its entirety for past 4 seasons - any sane person can see it's time to move on.
This is the part where people start banging their heads against the wall. Over the last 4 years we all knew that the OL has been the issue. Yet, you can not give credit where credit is due. Eli played better down the stretch when he had protection this is an absolute fact. Now read between the lines, he told you they discussed a contract extension. If DG wanted to give one he would have done it before this bonus hit today. This means ELI needs to prove it with the new OL to stay or he is gone after this year.
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
This value equation hinges on 2 things:
1. An evaluation of Rosen who is way under market or a willingness to sign a Fitzpatrick level caretaker. Neither is unreasonable, but neither is a no-brainer.
2. There's not a lot of evidence Eli had anything to do with not getting the guys you mentioned - both of whom it was reported DG tried to sign. Could they have way overpaid to get those guys in the building? Maybe. But they could have done that anyway if they felt it was worth it. Weddle had like 10 teams interested and the NYG weren't even in his final cut of 5 teams. With the number of draft picks they have this year there may already be a tighter roster for veteran depth this year than other years.
It may be the best way to go to trade for Rosen right now and spend an extra $15m adding Justin Houston and a RT, and whoever else you like that's out there. Or it may be that there's a QB they like better in the draft so there's no point in wasting assets on Rosen. IMO it's not quite black and white yet. I think Jones is earmarked for that 17th pick.
You could start with an accurate assessment of the situation. If it wasn't possible to turn it around and win starting on day 1 - don't overpay for Solder, Omameh and Stewart. That would have been a really good start.
Well, I'm not sure how much better you can assess what you have without actually being in the mix on a day to day basis. If McAdoo stayed on as the coach then at least DG can make some decisions based on coaching input, but we not only had to have a GM learn everyone from scratch but a whole new coaching staff learn them as well. They weren't going to give up on any 1st rnd picks (Flowers, Apple) right away because this roster was already decimated by years of bad drafting. He knew he had to add a FA on the OL as first order of business. There was no way around paying that person. He went after Norwell first and when he was gone he went after the next best available, Solder. He HAD to pay that contract. And I feel like Solder and Hernandez were a very good pair starting after the bye. Omameh and Stewart were not good moves but clearly you aren't going to hit on every move you make.
1. draft our next QB while solidifying the defense;
2. totally address the defense and OL if we don't like a QB who's there when we pick;
3. give us the ammunition to trade up for our QB of the future while still addressing other team needs...
I think you're being blind.
And sticking with Eli has more to do with trying to have a successful season while also rebuilding than any loyalty to him. We don't have anyone else competent to play the position right now. What's so hard to understand about that?
spot on.
But I think most of us feel like they were playing more competitive football than they were in 2017. Barkley was a huge part of that. The coaching seemed better in the second half of the season as they committed to Barkley more. Defense was a mess. They had their best special teams year in recent memory.
We have to see if they improve upon this, stay the same, or get worse.