and it was tough to see OB wank his way out of town ... 12 draft picks and very little dead cap money next year are a ton of assets to build on, in addition to the draft last year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I never remember a time when the Giants.. Â
So what would your response have been? Please choose one or make up another if you dont like these choices..
1. Bench Eli for Lauletta who clearly is not the answer and NOT better than Eli.
2. Make a comment that Eli is not in our future (which is what people here want him to say).
3. Cut Eli before we owed him the salary bonus AND before we had a replacement. Then, the no plan talk would have been at an all time high.
4. Signed Fitzpatrick who is 36 yrs old
So, where is the blind part? I just want to know what DG should have done thus far about Eli. What would have been your plan?
The fact that he said there wasn't even a decision to make is the blindly part.
once again.. you are someone who is taking every word he says literally without understanding the gamesmanship involved with making a comment that completely backs current starting QB.
Maybe you should ask to see his draft board. Then, when he gives you a fake one you will complain after the draft that he did not draft according to the board he shared publicly.
Gettleman is struggling with two very important tasks Â
Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
RE: Gettleman is struggling with two very important tasks Â
Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Me too
Woah did someone say grit?
A team of 53 Zak DeOssies, Dave Diehls, and David Tyrees. Â
Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Thanks Eric for contributing what is most likely the most rational post on this thread that will unfortunately be ignored by most.
RE: A team of 53 Zak DeOssies, Dave Diehls, and David Tyrees. Â
Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Thanks Eric for contributing what is most likely the most rational post on this thread that will unfortunately be ignored by most.
Lol. Anyone who says Eli "Dilfered" two super bowls should have their fucking handle deleted.
Agreed. Too strong of a statement. Were either great performances? Was scoring 17 and 21 the kind of output we thought necessary to win those SBs? No and no. But they surely weren't "Dilfer'd". They were solid and most important, mistake free.
So, all of the evidence suggests that our thoughts of what kind of output was necessary to win the games were...wrong. It should make us think a little bit harder, shouldn't it?
Why do people insist on makiing fools of themselves with posts like these?
Why do people insist on demanding a certain typecast for football players? The world may never know. It's just what I think of when fans wax poetic about 'grit'.
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Agreed. It really is perplexing that people can't grasp this concept.
unless your endgame is either A)Treading water so the bottom doesn't fall out or B)Selling tickets while Eli accumulates better numbers and stats for his HOF bid.
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I'm glad someone else noticed this. The guy said he wanted to avoid QB hell while standing firmly at the center of it.
unless your endgame is either A)Treading water so the bottom doesn't fall out or B)Selling tickets while Eli accumulates better numbers and stats for his HOF bid.
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I get it now. You are one of the fans that never did (and probably never will) get over the fact that we didn't take Sam Darnold.
RE: RE: 'A team of 53 Zak DeOssies, Dave Diehls, and David Tyrees'... Â
Why do people insist on makiing fools of themselves with posts like these?
Why do people insist on demanding a certain typecast for football players? The world may never know. It's just what I think of when fans wax poetic about 'grit'.
Leave me out of this
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
So what if they don't like Rosen (as some reports say) OR they are simply asking way too much from a team that has holes galore on defense.
And what if they don't like the QBs in this year's draft?
I think DG is going with what his best option is right now, and that's Eli.
Yes DG talks about avoiding QB hell and we are in the middle of it right now with an aging QB. No one said getting out of it was easy.
To draft a QB simply to say you have something new isn't the way to get it done, and DG knows that.
Johnny Mara is bound and determined to keep Eli out there for as long as Mannning is willing to step on the field.
I would expect another 1-2 years of Eli as starter and who knows what sort of shape SB or the rest of the team will be in.
"The rest of the team" is going to mostly be draft picks selected either last year (7), this year (currently 12), or next year (currently 9). Stockpiling draft picks is the right move right now, as is using that stockpile to find the QB of the future.
Whether Eli starts games between now and then is of little consequence to properly rebuilding through the draft. Getting those picks right is going to sink or swim Gettleman.
RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
Drew, do you really think that DG isn't aware of Eli's age or Â
the need to get his replacement on board? Do you think that he hasn't communicated with the Cards regarding the cost to land Rosen or to move up to #1 for Murray if the Cards are sticking with Rosen?
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
Why would they win sooner? His contract is up after this year, so right now we don't have a QB beyond 2019.
Trading for a young QB off someone else's roster (could be Rosen, could be someone else) is a better option. Even going with Lauletta is a better option.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
RE: Drew, do you really think that DG isn't aware of Eli's age or Â
the need to get his replacement on board? Do you think that he hasn't communicated with the Cards regarding the cost to land Rosen or to move up to #1 for Murray if the Cards are sticking with Rosen?
I have no idea what DG is doing about the QB position other than what he has said publicly.
I sure hope he's looking into all those other options - but i don't know.
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
OK - that sounds great, but how do you know the Cardinals are taking offers right now or that they aren't asking for 3 first rounders? Beyond that, the Giants front office did its homework on Rosen last year and maybe they think he's a jackass.
Trading for a young QB off someone else's roster (could be Rosen, could be someone else) is a better option. Even going with Lauletta is a better option.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
OK - let's say you cut him and go with Lauletta. When it becomes clear that Lauletta is not a starting caliber QB you are back where you started. You didn't build toward anything.
I just can't believe the crap that I'm reading.. Â
... from posters who I genuinely respect, about Eli.
There is NO VALID/CORRECT/PERFECT/Insert-adjective-here WAY to replace an Eli at the end of his career. This is all just bullshit opinion from armchair QB fans (myself included).
Again I so hope Eli SLAYS it next year to at least tamp some of this shit down. Reese and regime failed Eli miserably in the back half of his career. It's pretty clear to my eyes the guy can still play IF HE HAS ADEQUATE blocking, which he hasn't had in a LONG time. That not only cost Eli the back half of his career, it also cost the jobs of a great HC and OC.
I know this guy can still play behind decent OL. And I want this team to be competitive REGARDLESS of who is behind center. The team needs to be rebuilt and there is no better option at QB on the roster right now. Nobody has any clue if we might even be working to get Murray (which would be MY choice). I am willing to give DG next year to show MARKED improvement to the roster and team competitiveness. Let's give the guy more than one season for crissakes and stop crying about the best Giants QB in my lifetime.
Pull on your big boy pants and root for your g*d*mn team you bunch of Nancies! lol
Anything beats paying what the NYG are paying for a guy with 8 wins in two years.
That's what 8 wins the past two years - they are paying a little over $23 mil this year and paid him $41 million the last two years before that....and DG is saying his being over paid is a crock?
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
Eli is not what he once was but he is still way better than Taylor, Bridgewater, and Fitz in my opinion. It's a one year deal too, so there is no commitment to Eli next year. Signing any of those other QB's would probably result in dead money next year and it does nothing to rebuild this roster. It's not like we aren't signing someone because of Eli (at least I don't think that is the case).
Trading for a young QB off someone else's roster (could be Rosen, could be someone else) is a better option. Even going with Lauletta is a better option.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
I don't disagree with most of this post, but IMO if they draft 1 of the QB's this year, I have no issue with that guy going into the season behind Eli. That's actually probably my preferred option vs. pinning hopes to next year's crop of QB's or trading for someone else's flawed QB option (like Rosen).
If they determine he has enough arm talent, I think Daniel Jones at 17 makes a lot of sense. He reminds me of Phillip Rivers, with more mobility. Or Wentz with less arm talent.
What about the $17M I got from cutting Eli? I can turn that into 3 or 4 players.
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
It's actually been a good off-season leading into the draft - OBJ trade brought a quality defender and more draft picks, cut more dead weight, smartly didn't bleak on LC, nice move to get Tate, good swap to get Zeitler.
But this Eli decision is as dumb as it gets. And, I believe, an albatross to really move forward. It wreaks of sentimentality, naivety, delusion, fear, and cow-towing to a fan base that would rather watch Eli more than moving forward and building a long-term solution.
If DG really think Eli is the best solution available than you have to be dubious about him selecting the next QB.
Because after reading Shurmur's quotes last week about the ideal QB he wants to run his offense, it's crystal clear he wants to move on from Eli. Anything else out of his mouth is him just towing the company line...
If telling the truth to reporters is NOT in Gettleman's contract, Â
then I see no reason why he has to. A strategic lie can be good for the Giants rather than just to make Gettleman look good.
Frankly, with the possible exceptions of Mike Francesa and Stephen A. Smith, most reporters would much prefer to be told an interesting lie rather than the boring truth. The boring truth does not sell copy.
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Agreed. It really is perplexing that people can't grasp this concept.
Some of us are actually thinking that Giants FO actually thinks he is the Long term solution.. Nothing that has been done so far shows otherwise.. They haven't asked Eli to take a pay cut. They didn't look for another QB to come in for a cheaper price.. They actually came up with the BS stat that Giants are the highest scoring team in NFC east as if it matters and BTW we are not the highest scoring offense in the NFC east.. Nothing Eli has done over the past 3 years justifies anything.. I have no trust that the Giants don't try to extend him next year..
What about the $17M I got from cutting Eli? I can turn that into 3 or 4 players.
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
I question if there's enough talent left in FA to get enough surplus value with the $17m compared to signing more modest guys. They can already afford a RT Remmers, Veldeheer, or Schraeder, there's not really a better option out there for more money.
Justin Houston is probably the guy in FA who could get the most $ in a 1 year deal, I'm not sure he moves the needle enough to be worth starting Lauletta - who isn't even a powerball ticket at this point. He's a scratch off.
It's too late now. It had to be done before FA started, and before Eli got his bonus.
Who do you think they should have signed? We should have learned from experience that it's best to sit out the first wave of FA because you always grossly overpay for marginal talent.
John Mara got spooked at the reaction to Eli’s benching Â
Two years ago. I think the organization was ready to move on then, the reaction shocked them and Mara - being incredibly risk averse and unwilling to rock the boat - decided the appropriate course of action was to recommit to Eli.
I firmly believe Gettleman and Shurmur were hired because they told Mara what he wanted to hear about Eli.
I was annoyed McAdoo benched Eli for Geno Smith and I still think he handled it the wrong way but I see where he was coming from. McAdoo probably reacted a little late actually, Manning was a punchline in the national conversation before that benching. But he was still two seasons (and counting) ahead of the current Giants management group.
Anyway nothing I can do about it so I just have to go along for the ride. Been watching Eli play ineffective football and throw devastating interceptions for years now, what’s another season (or two, or three)?
Quote:
In comment 14345390 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Honestly I SO want this offense to just really kick ass this year just to shut everyone the hell up about Eli already.
What if it doesn't?
You going to say the same thing again next year?
No, why would I?
I don't know why your saying it this year...so lord knows why you would next year too :)?
I'm sure there's all sorts of things that you could search for to find hope that Eli still has it - especially since you can for this season.
Quote:
So what would your response have been? Please choose one or make up another if you dont like these choices..
1. Bench Eli for Lauletta who clearly is not the answer and NOT better than Eli.
2. Make a comment that Eli is not in our future (which is what people here want him to say).
3. Cut Eli before we owed him the salary bonus AND before we had a replacement. Then, the no plan talk would have been at an all time high.
4. Signed Fitzpatrick who is 36 yrs old
So, where is the blind part? I just want to know what DG should have done thus far about Eli. What would have been your plan?
The fact that he said there wasn't even a decision to make is the blindly part.
once again.. you are someone who is taking every word he says literally without understanding the gamesmanship involved with making a comment that completely backs current starting QB.
Maybe you should ask to see his draft board. Then, when he gives you a fake one you will complain after the draft that he did not draft according to the board he shared publicly.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Quote:
Behind DG, I was a fan of the hire, I like what he's done and I like what he's doing. He's getting rid of the rot and making the culture what he thinks it should be. This isn't an overnight fix, we had a locker room full of big mouths and dopes and guys who put themselves over the team on multiple occasions. He wants guys who want to play football first and tweet second or third or not at all. Every single player we have traded away or cut has been a me first type, look at me type and that doesn't get it done in football unless the talent is overwhelming and it isn't.
Reese and Ross gutted the OL, ignored RBs and just marveled at the basketball on grass idea and we had a soft flimsy roster because of it. This is and always will be a physical game for big men and we didn't have enough size, grit or toughness. Now the diva is gone, the lawyer is gone, the "humble" my ass 21 is gone and pouty moody Vernon is gone. In their place is a tenacious WR who is physical in all aspects, a RG in the top 5 of the league who plays with an edge and a young promising S who looks to be versatile, talented and smart. Throw in Markus Golden, who has had some rough years but clearly has talent and was beloved in AZ and you see what he's doing.
Last year he adds Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, and Carter, 3 sure fire starting caliber players at RB, LG and DE and a big fast OLB who should be starting in year 2. He has 12 picks this year and he's going to keep building and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
Me too
Woah did someone say grit?
Quote:
Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Thanks Eric for contributing what is most likely the most rational post on this thread that will unfortunately be ignored by most.
"Championship"
-Bill Belichick
Yeah just leave out the high character talented players like Barkley, Solder, Hill, Tomlinson, Ogletree, Zeitler, Eli, etc.
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In comment 14345498 BigBlueCane said:
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Rebuilding the team and its culture into something remotely competitive while at the same time upholding Mara's vision that Eli, who has been a good soldier up til this point, never once complained despite the situations that Reese and Ross were putting him in, goes out either a winner or at least with a positive last season.
He will fail at both because he can't do both.
Maybe, maybe not. At some point in the next 14 months he's adding the QB of the future. If he gets that decision right, little will matter in relation to Eli. If he gets that decision wrong or passes altogether than your point may be valid.
Thanks Eric for contributing what is most likely the most rational post on this thread that will unfortunately be ignored by most.
"rational left this place a long time ago"
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Lol. Anyone who says Eli "Dilfered" two super bowls should have their fucking handle deleted.
Agreed. Too strong of a statement. Were either great performances? Was scoring 17 and 21 the kind of output we thought necessary to win those SBs? No and no. But they surely weren't "Dilfer'd". They were solid and most important, mistake free.
Why do people insist on demanding a certain typecast for football players? The world may never know. It's just what I think of when fans wax poetic about 'grit'.
I would expect another 1-2 years of Eli as starter and who knows what sort of shape SB or the rest of the team will be in.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Things I've learned while reading this thread:
(1) The Giants 8-0 playoff run in 2007 and 2011 had NOTHING to do with Eli Manning.
(2) Eli Manning is a complainer.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Agreed. It really is perplexing that people can't grasp this concept.
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Tell that to Ben McAdoo
Things I've learned while reading this thread:
(1) The Giants 8-0 playoff run in 2007 and 2011 had NOTHING to do with Eli Manning.
(2) Eli Manning is a complainer.
Amazing, isn't it? Discredit one of the finest and professional players in Giants history.
What did he complain about?
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I'm glad someone else noticed this. The guy said he wanted to avoid QB hell while standing firmly at the center of it.
He's not the best option for a team that has many needs and holes as this team does because he requires so much investment to be successful.
At best, an Eli led Giants team makes the playoffs, then promptly gets crushed by one of the real SB contenders. Whoopee, congrats on that 'prize'.
This is the definition of "QB/NFL Hell" that DG so infamously referenced. The team isn't bad enough to completely submit to a total rebuild nor is it good enough for anyone to seriously consider them a piece/player away from being a SB contender.
I get it now. You are one of the fans that never did (and probably never will) get over the fact that we didn't take Sam Darnold.
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Why do people insist on makiing fools of themselves with posts like these?
Why do people insist on demanding a certain typecast for football players? The world may never know. It's just what I think of when fans wax poetic about 'grit'.
Leave me out of this
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is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
So what if they don't like Rosen (as some reports say) OR they are simply asking way too much from a team that has holes galore on defense.
And what if they don't like the QBs in this year's draft?
I think DG is going with what his best option is right now, and that's Eli.
Yes DG talks about avoiding QB hell and we are in the middle of it right now with an aging QB. No one said getting out of it was easy.
To draft a QB simply to say you have something new isn't the way to get it done, and DG knows that.
I would expect another 1-2 years of Eli as starter and who knows what sort of shape SB or the rest of the team will be in.
"The rest of the team" is going to mostly be draft picks selected either last year (7), this year (currently 12), or next year (currently 9). Stockpiling draft picks is the right move right now, as is using that stockpile to find the QB of the future.
Whether Eli starts games between now and then is of little consequence to properly rebuilding through the draft. Getting those picks right is going to sink or swim Gettleman.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
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is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
This is the flaw in your statement butt.
Those who are okay with cutting Eli do not want to do so because they will win more games in 2019. Its because they will win more games sooner...
Why would they win sooner? His contract is up after this year, so right now we don't have a QB beyond 2019.
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
I have no idea what DG is doing about the QB position other than what he has said publicly.
I sure hope he's looking into all those other options - but i don't know.
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is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Trade for Rosen or draft and play a rookie QB - either one of those options give me more hope for the future of this franchise than running Eli Manning out there again this year, and if the rumors of an extension are true, beyond.
OK - that sounds great, but how do you know the Cardinals are taking offers right now or that they aren't asking for 3 first rounders? Beyond that, the Giants front office did its homework on Rosen last year and maybe they think he's a jackass.
That is QB Hell butt...
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
OK - let's say you cut him and go with Lauletta. When it becomes clear that Lauletta is not a starting caliber QB you are back where you started. You didn't build toward anything.
There is NO VALID/CORRECT/PERFECT/Insert-adjective-here WAY to replace an Eli at the end of his career. This is all just bullshit opinion from armchair QB fans (myself included).
Again I so hope Eli SLAYS it next year to at least tamp some of this shit down. Reese and regime failed Eli miserably in the back half of his career. It's pretty clear to my eyes the guy can still play IF HE HAS ADEQUATE blocking, which he hasn't had in a LONG time. That not only cost Eli the back half of his career, it also cost the jobs of a great HC and OC.
I know this guy can still play behind decent OL. And I want this team to be competitive REGARDLESS of who is behind center. The team needs to be rebuilt and there is no better option at QB on the roster right now. Nobody has any clue if we might even be working to get Murray (which would be MY choice). I am willing to give DG next year to show MARKED improvement to the roster and team competitiveness. Let's give the guy more than one season for crissakes and stop crying about the best Giants QB in my lifetime.
Pull on your big boy pants and root for your g*d*mn team you bunch of Nancies! lol
Anything beats paying what the NYG are paying for a guy with 8 wins in two years.
That's what 8 wins the past two years - they are paying a little over $23 mil this year and paid him $41 million the last two years before that....and DG is saying his being over paid is a crock?
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is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
Eli is not what he once was but he is still way better than Taylor, Bridgewater, and Fitz in my opinion. It's a one year deal too, so there is no commitment to Eli next year. Signing any of those other QB's would probably result in dead money next year and it does nothing to rebuild this roster. It's not like we aren't signing someone because of Eli (at least I don't think that is the case).
It's simple: if Eli is the quarterback in 2019, you'd better win. You are not rebuilding if Eli is the quarterback - you had an easy out and you didn't take it.
I love Eli and as a subjective fan I'm happy I'll get to see him play on a team that isn't poisoned by Beckham's presence. But as an objective viewer it doesn't make sense unless you're winning this year.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
I don't disagree with most of this post, but IMO if they draft 1 of the QB's this year, I have no issue with that guy going into the season behind Eli. That's actually probably my preferred option vs. pinning hopes to next year's crop of QB's or trading for someone else's flawed QB option (like Rosen).
If they determine he has enough arm talent, I think Daniel Jones at 17 makes a lot of sense. He reminds me of Phillip Rivers, with more mobility. Or Wentz with less arm talent.
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing. If they go 6-10 then Gettleman and Shurmur should both be fired.
But this Eli decision is as dumb as it gets. And, I believe, an albatross to really move forward. It wreaks of sentimentality, naivety, delusion, fear, and cow-towing to a fan base that would rather watch Eli more than moving forward and building a long-term solution.
If DG really think Eli is the best solution available than you have to be dubious about him selecting the next QB.
Because after reading Shurmur's quotes last week about the ideal QB he wants to run his offense, it's crystal clear he wants to move on from Eli. Anything else out of his mouth is him just towing the company line...
Frankly, with the possible exceptions of Mike Francesa and Stephen A. Smith, most reporters would much prefer to be told an interesting lie rather than the boring truth. The boring truth does not sell copy.
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is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Agreed. It really is perplexing that people can't grasp this concept.
Some of us are actually thinking that Giants FO actually thinks he is the Long term solution.. Nothing that has been done so far shows otherwise.. They haven't asked Eli to take a pay cut. They didn't look for another QB to come in for a cheaper price.. They actually came up with the BS stat that Giants are the highest scoring team in NFC east as if it matters and BTW we are not the highest scoring offense in the NFC east.. Nothing Eli has done over the past 3 years justifies anything.. I have no trust that the Giants don't try to extend him next year..
And if I go with Lauletta at least there's a chance I could be building something. Maybe he can play if given a full offseason of work and reps as a starter (or competing for a starting position). What if I trade a fifth rounder to Minnesota for Sloter and have him compete with Lauletta for the job?
We've already invested in Lauletta. He's here for nothing. I hate that we just write him off like a lost cause. Isn't Shurmur supposed to work well with QBs? Well have him work on Lauletta. I can't stand the ease with which so many are seemingly throwing away this potential resource.
We drafted the guy for a reason. Find what he does well and build around that. Maybe he develops into a decent backup. Maybe something more. Maybe it becomes a Kevin Kolb situation where he shows enough to convince someone else that he doesn't suck, but actually does still suck. It's better than just giving up on him after a year when he costs nothing.
I question if there's enough talent left in FA to get enough surplus value with the $17m compared to signing more modest guys. They can already afford a RT Remmers, Veldeheer, or Schraeder, there's not really a better option out there for more money.
Justin Houston is probably the guy in FA who could get the most $ in a 1 year deal, I'm not sure he moves the needle enough to be worth starting Lauletta - who isn't even a powerball ticket at this point. He's a scratch off.
Who do you think they should have signed? We should have learned from experience that it's best to sit out the first wave of FA because you always grossly overpay for marginal talent.
I firmly believe Gettleman and Shurmur were hired because they told Mara what he wanted to hear about Eli.
I was annoyed McAdoo benched Eli for Geno Smith and I still think he handled it the wrong way but I see where he was coming from. McAdoo probably reacted a little late actually, Manning was a punchline in the national conversation before that benching. But he was still two seasons (and counting) ahead of the current Giants management group.
Anyway nothing I can do about it so I just have to go along for the ride. Been watching Eli play ineffective football and throw devastating interceptions for years now, what’s another season (or two, or three)?