over the next two years, then its ok to have Eli play this year. He will be asked to be a game manager, that's all. His playing is NOT about "building around Eli". He's essentially, a place-holder until his replacement is found. Meanwhile, Gettleman is building the roster one brick at a time. That's the right approach. As JonC said above. 12 picks this year, maybe 11 next year AND over 100 million I cap space, this can be a pretty quick rebuild. From my perspective, we have to have faith, DG knows what he's doing. Otherwise.....
Were 1 year deals, no dead money or commitment beyond this year. Keenum's numbers under Shurmur in 2017 were nearly identical to Eli's last year. I think they're a wash in this offense. If they're not, it's close enough to warrant the 14M in net cap savings. Bridgewater is a guy that is still young and can be seen as possibly having some upside. He would have netted 9-10M in cap. Either of those are superior short term alternatives to Eli in a rebuild. I'm also not so sure that this is Eli's last year.
I hope the Giants plan is to have him mentor a rookie QB this year and the overpay in 2019 is a move made out of respect to a franchise legend. In that case, I'm okay with it. The arguments that spin it any other way ring hollow to me.
Is putting out some very very fair alternative options at the QB position.
I will say Eli - bridge QB - young kid sounds more logical to me. Eli's era ends, you bring in a Tyrod Taylor type and still remain competitive. Everyone including the fans now know you've moved into a new era and truthfully many here would probably be less frustrated since our direction is more clear.
I do not think Eli and the young grasshopper on the same roster is a great idea, now they both have to answer questions about each other and it once again makes a situation that could be drama free kinda volatile.
While you can make the argument Eli may be better than a fringe street starter in terms of play, i think the benefits of moving on off the field favor bringing in a different stopgap.
Let Eli ride off into the sunset - let one chapter end and then start another.
I hope i am humbled and he surprises us this year.
It's too late now. It had to be done before FA started, and before Eli got his bonus.
Ok that makes more sense - and I think that's a somewhat fair position.
I personally disagree with it because I don't think Lauletta is a reasonable option (nor a vet placeholder like Fitzmagic). So I understand not cutting Eli if they didn't like the options available. We don't even know if Rosen is 100% available yet and I'd personally prefer our qb of the future to be more mobile.
With all the draft picks they've added the next 2 years, my #1 option by far is to find a guy they like and get him for a full 5 years at rookie scale. Keeping Eli to give that player time to get acclimated is a benefit in my mind. Especially if it ends up being Murray or Haskins since each had so few starts in CFB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I do enjoy the certainty with which people state that Â
Facts are inconvenient things. Peppers hasn't done much. As a former 1st round pick, he has to be chalked up at this point as "disappointing" which is why he was available in the first place.
Take a look at Peppers year this year. He was pretty damn productive. Williams used him very wisely.
If you say so. Statistically, at least, Collins was better despite playing in 4 fewer games and having a total incompetent as a fellow safety.
RE: As difficult as the recent seasons have been to endure Â
and it was tough to see OB wank his way out of town ... 12 draft picks and very little dead cap money next year are a ton of assets to build on, in addition to the draft last year.
And the draft next year also
RE: RE: It really is amazing to me that it seems like at least half of BBI Â
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
So having 8 figures in cap space is more important than winning games? Because none of those guys are a lock for more than 5 wins next year.
We needed 3 pieces to the OL....so far we have one.....
12 picks? Most are after the 3rd round....have to be extremely lucky....or used them to package a move up.....
The smart move was to cut Eli and use the 17M either this year or next.....go full rebuild, and get a high draft choice next year....I don't mind losing, when you plan on losing....but when you tell us you are trying to win, and lose, that's a whole other ball game that we have been listening to for years....
Stop with the bullshit. No one wants to replace Eli for the sake of replacing him. No one wants to start Eli forever either.
This entire argument is based on one's evaluation of Eli's play right now. It is subjective. Because it's subjective no one is going to admit they're wrong or change their opinion.
Threads are not going to stop anytime soon. This will be in the discussion for the entire year 2019. Hoping it stops is futile. Buckle up, we're going to complain about every aspect of this for the entire year.
It doesn't seem to me like the Giants have actually looked to upgrade on Eli (from a production AND cost standpoint).
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
None of them wanted to play here. The player has to choose to play here when he’s a free agent. The money in a vacuum doesn’t mean shit.
No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago and what he happens to show on a far more infrequent basis now.
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
Eli is the future.
Wait until the extension is announced for 3 yrs/$60M, $45 guaranteed.
No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago and what he happens to show on a far more infrequent basis now.
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
What a crock. I am hoping we somehow end up with Kyler Murray.
But to say Eli's just done and completely holding the offense back without heavily factoring in the OL situation is absurd. And thinking he can still win with an actual NFL level OL is a justifiable position to hold. And dumping him at all costs is just goofy.
Well I was responding to your first sentence... "No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago..." Yada yada yada.
So go win. If they finish 10-6 they did the right thing.
How? I would argue it's the worst outcome - unless it leads to SB.
It would lead to the same season ending evaluation - Eli stays. And the circular error just continues...
I hope the Giants plan is to have him mentor a rookie QB this year and the overpay in 2019 is a move made out of respect to a franchise legend. In that case, I'm okay with it. The arguments that spin it any other way ring hollow to me.
I will say Eli - bridge QB - young kid sounds more logical to me. Eli's era ends, you bring in a Tyrod Taylor type and still remain competitive. Everyone including the fans now know you've moved into a new era and truthfully many here would probably be less frustrated since our direction is more clear.
I do not think Eli and the young grasshopper on the same roster is a great idea, now they both have to answer questions about each other and it once again makes a situation that could be drama free kinda volatile.
While you can make the argument Eli may be better than a fringe street starter in terms of play, i think the benefits of moving on off the field favor bringing in a different stopgap.
Let Eli ride off into the sunset - let one chapter end and then start another.
I hope i am humbled and he surprises us this year.
Ok that makes more sense - and I think that's a somewhat fair position.
I personally disagree with it because I don't think Lauletta is a reasonable option (nor a vet placeholder like Fitzmagic). So I understand not cutting Eli if they didn't like the options available. We don't even know if Rosen is 100% available yet and I'd personally prefer our qb of the future to be more mobile.
With all the draft picks they've added the next 2 years, my #1 option by far is to find a guy they like and get him for a full 5 years at rookie scale. Keeping Eli to give that player time to get acclimated is a benefit in my mind. Especially if it ends up being Murray or Haskins since each had so few starts in CFB.
Quote:
Facts are inconvenient things. Peppers hasn't done much. As a former 1st round pick, he has to be chalked up at this point as "disappointing" which is why he was available in the first place.
Take a look at Peppers year this year. He was pretty damn productive. Williams used him very wisely.
And the draft next year also
Quote:
is completely focused on getting rid of Eli ASAP... even with no alternate plan for the QB position. It's as if they just have to cut Eli and replace him with any old bum (and of course said bum will play for free) and just like that we are back to winning games again.
No one thinks Eli is the long-term solution (including the Giants), but just because they don't cut him today doesn't mean there is no plan to replace him. When a better option surfaces, Eli will be replaced. Currently he is he is the best option. Why is it so hard to understand?
If you want to complain about Eli still being the QB, please enlighten the rest of us as to what you are proposing we do to replace him in 2019.
Case Keenum was swapped for the equivalent of a 7th round pick and essentially a 1yr 3.5m deal. Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater and Ryan Fitzpatrick are on short term deals with a 5-7m APY. Cutting Eli and swapping out for any of those players would net the Giants 8 figures in cap space. There are other options. You may not agree with them (IMO you're overrating Eli, we can go in circles there), but they do exist.
So having 8 figures in cap space is more important than winning games? Because none of those guys are a lock for more than 5 wins next year.
We needed 3 pieces to the OL....so far we have one.....
12 picks? Most are after the 3rd round....have to be extremely lucky....or used them to package a move up.....
The smart move was to cut Eli and use the 17M either this year or next.....go full rebuild, and get a high draft choice next year....I don't mind losing, when you plan on losing....but when you tell us you are trying to win, and lose, that's a whole other ball game that we have been listening to for years....
This entire argument is based on one's evaluation of Eli's play right now. It is subjective. Because it's subjective no one is going to admit they're wrong or change their opinion.
Threads are not going to stop anytime soon. This will be in the discussion for the entire year 2019. Hoping it stops is futile. Buckle up, we're going to complain about every aspect of this for the entire year.
The fact remains they could almost certainly trade their second round pick to Arizona for Rosen, who is younger, cheaper, and a better fit in this offense. The $17M recouped by cutting Eli could be used to sign 3-4 starting level FAs for the 2019 season. For scale, Eric Weddle's cap hit in Baltimore this year is only $5.7M. Matt Paradis's is $4M. Deonne Bucannon's is $2.5M. We could have traded for Rosen, signed those three players, and had money left over.
Paying Eli $23M this season is horrific asset allocation. There is no way around that.
None of them wanted to play here. The player has to choose to play here when he’s a free agent. The money in a vacuum doesn’t mean shit.
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
Eli is the future.
Wait until the extension is announced for 3 yrs/$60M, $45 guaranteed.
I just feel it comin'...
You extrapolate only the good, excuse away the bad and justify a poor decision on the field and with cap dollars because nobody else would work out.
And around and around we go.
$5 mill out the door today for early retirement pay instead of investing to the future. A lame duck QB leading our beloved Giants because of some mix of loyalty run amuck, poor planning, shitty vision and memories of days long gone...
What a crock. I am hoping we somehow end up with Kyler Murray.
But to say Eli's just done and completely holding the offense back without heavily factoring in the OL situation is absurd. And thinking he can still win with an actual NFL level OL is a justifiable position to hold. And dumping him at all costs is just goofy.
Well I was responding to your first sentence... "No option other than Eli works for some of you because of this ridiculous clinging to what he showed years ago..." Yada yada yada.
Start your own thread if you want to debate a different topic...
The NYG do not.
DG will lucky to tread water until he hands the job off to Kevin Abrams in 2-3 years.
Start your own thread if you want to debate a different topic...
Well maybe I'm missing something but I feel like my response is completely relevant to what you posted...