Really explains a lot about where we are headed. Jonathan Stewart "hasn't lost a step" and no need for a QB succession plan cause Eli can still make all the throws.
“This narrative that Eli’s overpaid and can’t play is a crock. With the way we ended the season, and what he's making, there really wasn't a decision to make."
Let’s not forget the Giants needed a new GM and hired their former GM to help them find one, and he helped them hire their former player personnel guy who was passed over previously for another in house option, all before the season ended.
We're digging our own grave.
it was more disturbing that he doesn't believe in trying to find a Â
He's not talking about signing a 36 year old player to a 5 year deal worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
He's just saying that if a guy can play and can fill a role temporarily - his age shouldn't matter. And I agree with this.
Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't - as with any signing. Sometimes you get a Whitworth or a Weddle, and other times you get a Marshall or a Stewart.
RE: it was more disturbing that he doesn't believe in trying to find a Â
that quote doesn't bother me all that much... it's the context that matters.
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
RE: RE: it was more disturbing that he doesn't believe in trying to find a Â
that quote doesn't bother me all that much... it's the context that matters.
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
I still think we've seen the last of Shepard in a Giants uniform, which is disappointing. Tate's on the wrong side of 30 and making quite a bit of money, and with the slot as his primary position likely makes Shepard redundant.
In their primes they might not have been comparable, but right now I think they're basically a wash when you factor in cost. They're spending more to get older and have the same production. Not a good place to be.
that quote doesn't bother me all that much... it's the context that matters.
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
Agree with just about everything you said. What concerns me the most is their inability (or just plain refusal) to see the decline in Eli's play.
if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
This is BBI, where someone once posted they wouldn’t even want the Giants to win the Super Bowl, bc if they did then Coughlin wouldn’t get fired - and that was sometime late in the 2007 Super Bowl season.
Some fans natural reaction is to cry about everything. Strange to me too, but nothing new
if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
This is BBI, where someone once posted they wouldn’t even want the Giants to win the Super Bowl, bc if they did then Coughlin wouldn’t get fired - and that was sometime late in the 2007 Super Bowl season.
Some fans natural reaction is to cry about everything. Strange to me too, but nothing new
OK, I'm calling bullshit on that unless you have some proof.
Someone here said they'd rather not win a SB and have TC fired? Let's see it.
if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
We've been the worst team in the league for two years running now. We just traded arguably our best player. We have a 38 y.o. QB with no plan at all on how to replace him.
Sorry some of us don't see all rainbows and sunshine from this org right now.
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
Folks keep saying trade for Rosen or draft this guy or that guy... but those guys are not on the roster right now. And the Giants may not be able to acquire them for a reasonable price.
I don't recall anyone saying they didn't want them to win the SB at the end of the 2006 season, but there were more than a few rooting against them beating the Skins (and barring an improbable set of circumstances occuring on Sunday) to get to the playoff in the final game of the season (Tiki's last game). We beat the skins, made the playoffs, and We lost to the Eagles the next week by 3 points. A lot of people were angry because the playoff appearance gave TC another year. And of course, he won the Lombardi the next season.
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
Absent that I think it's insane to not trade our 2nd round pick for Rosen is possible.
Absent that I'd rather play Lauletta all year to tank and play for a top 3 pick to draft one of Tua, Fromm or Herbert.
I think keeping Eli is the worst possible decision cause we're not good enough to compete for a championship this year but Eli probably still has enough left in the tank to win 5-7 games - just enough to prevent us from grabbing one of the top QB's.
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Let’s not forget the Giants needed a new GM and hired their former GM to help them find one, and he helped them hire their former player personnel guy who was passed over previously for another in house option, all before the season ended.
We're digging our own grave.
Fairly accurate.
I still have faith and see a plan, but it is dwindling w every outdated square peg philosophy this guy keep trying to force down a round hole
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
Agree that the jury is very much still out on the Darnold/Barkley choice. Could very well turn out that DG made a great decision.
No idea on #2 either, but I think it's something we should aggressively pursue.
My real worry is that we'll end up drafting in the 6-10 range in 2020 and either miss out on the QB's or have to give up a kings ransom for one.
right. Don't understand the obsession with Stewart. If you are going to criticize Gettlemen, I think there are better arguments to make.
Keep in mind he took over a team that won 3 games the previous year and was an utter disaster on many levels. We won 5 games and were much more competitive last year. Let's see what we do this year.
But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
Well sure... apparently at the end of last season we were the league's best offense, and that was without Golden Tate! We're going to be like the Chiefs now that he's in the fold.
RE: RE: it was more disturbing that he doesn't believe in trying to find a Â
I would not be shocked if the Giants pass on a QB this year. The guys being talked about at #6 (or higher with a trade) are FAR from sure things. IMO, there is a high bust risk there.
If you feel like you need a QB as Gettleman from this draft, it might be "safer" to use your second #1 or your #2 on the QB. (Though Gettleman is on record with his "no guts" comment and his #1 draft pick/QB comment).
This is a REALLY good defensive draft. We need a ton of help on defense. It would suck to grab "just a guy" QB and pass on some quality defensive players.
I would not be shocked if the Giants pass on a QB this year. The guys being talked about at #6 (or higher with a trade) are FAR from sure things. IMO, there is a high bust risk there.
If you feel like you need a QB as Gettleman from this draft, it might be "safer" to use your second #1 or your #2 on the QB. (Though Gettleman is on record with his "no guts" comment and his #1 draft pick/QB comment).
This is a REALLY good defensive draft. We need a ton of help on defense. It would suck to grab "just a guy" QB and pass on some quality defensive players.
Once again I totally agree with you. But if we are tying to compete this year then how are we going to get one of the 2020 QB's? And if we don't get one of the 2020 QB's what the HELL is our plan for a QB moving forward????
I seriously think the plan is to let Eli play another 2 or 3 years (maybe more). Which is why DG's quote about "age not bothering me" scares the hell out of me.
the QB question is the biggest issue this team faces. I haven't seen too many NFL teams deliberately tank a season for a specific player. I don't think you can really plan that. Even bad teams in the NFL are usually competitive. And guys who you thought would be the #1 or #2 player in the country the year before often fall down the ladder.
Where do we get our QB? I don't know. All I know is you can't force it.
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Of course it's over and done with, but that doesn't mean the effects of that can't still be discussed and debated. For me, while I absolutely love SB, drafting him and ignoring the QB position as well as most of the free agency moves from last year showed me that the immediate plan was about the short term, which only changed at the end of the season when we started trading players away for picks. Which then tells me that the evaluation of the roster and our ability to be competitive were misjudged.
SB is definitely the best short term prospect for the team, but is he better for the health of the organization in the future years? Will he be effective once we have Eli's successor in place? I think that these are still important questions when looking at DG's plan and can't be summarily dismissed "we didn't take a qb, get over it."
Hard to argue with what you are saying, but at some point you have to pull the trigger and take a chance on a QB.
I don't think Eli has 2 or 3 more good years in him, but I think the Giants disagree. Time will tell.
Tesla...Eli is a frustrating player to watch now. He had some of his career games last year from an efficiency perspective. His INTs were way down too. But he's one of those guys who needs an above average OL. I personally think his toughness (remember 2011 NFC Championship Game) is gone. I also wonder if the two rings, the kids, the $$$ have lessened his game.
My biggest issue, and I've talked about this over and over again, is I don't think he will be here when (and if) we turn this around. Hence, I would have tried to have trade him last year (needed his blessing of course).
I don't recall anyone saying they didn't want them to win the SB at the end of the 2006 season, but there were more than a few rooting against them beating the Skins (and barring an improbable set of circumstances occuring on Sunday) to get to the playoff in the final game of the season (Tiki's last game). We beat the skins, made the playoffs, and We lost to the Eagles the next week by 3 points. A lot of people were angry because the playoff appearance gave TC another year. And of course, he won the Lombardi the next season.
Yes this is true...
Very weird some people would rather be "right" than have them win...
And now it seems as if the "Draft a Quarterback Obsessives" are repeating the BS...
DG has had less than a year to clean up the JR roster building fiasco give the guy some time...
player now - he's a RUNNING BACK, not a 21 YR OLD QB. Eli looked like crap for almost 4 years. In 3-4 years we will have our answer.
That may be very true. But I haven't seen many RBs in my lifetime who look like Barkley.
And I've seen many instances of QB's starting off strong, fading... or starting off strong and staying strong... or starting off poorly and then become a strong player.
We don't know what Darnold will be like and the Barkley vs. Darnold debate won't end for some time (barring injury).
I could not agree more about the toughness thing. Eli used to be the toughest SOB around.....so watching him hit the deck last year in anticipation of being sacked was really painful to watch.
Who can blame him though.....he's got 3 little kids and a couple hundred million in the bank....why should he stand in the pocket and get the snot knocked out of him anymore???
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
Folks keep saying trade for Rosen or draft this guy or that guy... but those guys are not on the roster right now. And the Giants may not be able to acquire them for a reasonable price.
Sure you get a draft pick. The most they were offered for LC was a 4th. Are you waiting for anything of note for a guy like Shepard that the Giants will likely have to deal since he's so similar to Tate? They'll be lucky to get anything.
There's an awful double standard here when it comes to current Giants players, and that's that the team is just fine and dandy without any of them since all the team has been doing is losing the past few years. Apparently, that distinction applies to all except Eli and Saquon.
I don't recall anyone saying they didn't want them to win the SB at the end of the 2006 season, but there were more than a few rooting against them beating the Skins (and barring an improbable set of circumstances occuring on Sunday) to get to the playoff in the final game of the season (Tiki's last game). We beat the skins, made the playoffs, and We lost to the Eagles the next week by 3 points. A lot of people were angry because the playoff appearance gave TC another year. And of course, he won the Lombardi the next season.
Yes this is true...
Very weird some people would rather be "right" than have them win...
And now it seems as if the "Draft a Quarterback Obsessives" are repeating the BS...
DG has had less than a year to clean up the JR roster building fiasco give the guy some time...
The draft a qb cuz teh analytiks idiots are actually weaving a fantasy irreality in their mind where SB was a bum last year, trade all our picks for world class douche Rosen and wholeheartedly believe Joe Beningo who thinks coach killer Darnold is a messianic figure in Jets history.
1) you want to develop a core of players - older guys by definition won't be that
2) you have to replace these guys in 1-3 years. There's always the risk that you won't. Remember Reese and TE's? He had no problem finding them (Boss, Ballard, Bennett) until all of sudden he couldn't and we end up relying on the likes of Myers and Donnell and Tye.
3) NFL is a young man's game. More so than any other big league. Guys are in their peak probably 24-28. And some go down hill in a hurry. Lose a half step and suddenly they go from Pro Bowl to mediocre. Generally I think you can improve your team a good deal just by getting younger, faster and healthier.
why so many insist there is no QB succession plan. Just because Mara doesn't invite you mooks to come in and be briefed doesn't mean they don't have a plan they want to pursue. Jesus you people are exhausting...
Gettleman helped build 4 SB teams...3 in NY, 1 in Carolina
For the millionth time, almost all of Carolina's best players were on the roster the day he was hired. They had a boatload of All Pros and Pro Bowlers, and the only one who was a Gettleman pickup was Trai Turner.
I can't imagine why one would assume Mara has it all under control Â
Were we all unconscious for the clown show that was the Tom Coughlin not-a-firing, or the way he apparently wasn't aware of the plan his own GM and coach undertook for getting a different QB game reps?
why so many insist there is no QB succession plan. Just because Mara doesn't invite you mooks to come in and be briefed doesn't mean they don't have a plan they want to pursue. Jesus you people are exhausting...
Play the best player available.... which has been Eli. Until they have an alternative they like, thats the plan. And if things go awry this year, draft a rookie next year and play him.
Play the best player available.... which has been Eli. Until they have an alternative they like, thats the plan. And if things go awry this year, draft a rookie next year and play him.
Its that simple.
Sorry for the confusion, but when I say plan I mean for 2020, 2021 and beyond. It's pretty clear what the plan for 2019 is.
We beat a couple of backup QBs ( 3rd strong in Was) and a put up points on a Dallas team resting for the playoffs.
If this “late season run” is factoring into decisions were doomed.
There was nothing impressive about the play at the end of the year except Barkley. Maybe Engram too. Nothing else should be fooling the Giants FO. We still have a team full of enormous holes and an old QB.
Giants, Rutgers, Knicks? Its torture. I’ve got Barkley to watch. That’s about it.
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Remembering circumstances that led to a difficult situation in the hopes you learn from it is not the same as not letting go.
The rookie LB may be their best defender. He never left the field all season. He played 36 snaps.
1. Lawrence has a sack and forced fumble in the game.
2. Vander Esch got hurt in the 3rd quarter and didnt come back.
Wanna try again? Or just admit you were wrong? I recommend the latter.
Lawrence may have had a sack and forced fumble but he played the equivalent of two drives.
So he played? Ok. Thanks. And so did vander Esch until he got hurt.
So Tyrone Crawford - their BJ Hill type player sat. One guy. Their LBs played. Their Secondary played. They played. And the Giants did well against them.
Managed to make a major impact in those 11 snaps, too. But hey, he's only their best defensive player. I'm sure it made no difference that he sat for most of the game.
That game meant absolutely nothing at all to the Cowboys, and yet they still stuffed that supposedly much-improved Giants offense when the game was on the line. Here's where you pretend that doesn't matter.
That game meant absolutely nothing at all to the Cowboys, and yet they still stuffed that supposedly much-improved Giants offense when the game was on the line. Here's where you pretend that doesn't matter.
4 plays. They gave up 17 goddamn points in the 4th quarter. But lets base it off..... 4 plays. Rational.
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
What if Darnold becomes Eli Manning.
On Sirius this morning, Papa and Weis were pretty adament that the Cards wouldn't get more than a 3 or 3+ for Rosen. They thought a 1 was out of the question and a 2 would be pushing it.
Drew Bledsoe would be like the 2nd most prolific passer Â
Our offense started that game with 3 drives that went nowhere then a FG on the 4th drive....but were saved because the defense kept getting the ball back for them immediately and then eventually scored on a pick 6. And other than Barkley breaking a few huge runs our offense didn't really do that much...it was the defense that dominated that game.
And of course we were shut out in the Titans game.
Those were the two "age" signings last year that I can recall and both were total busts.
The Barwin mistake was compounded by effectively cutting Okwara to make room: a good, useful, much younger and cheaper player.
If DG said "age doesn't bother me; look how I was successful with so-and-so", I'd pay attention.
But the impression is that he just has his nuggets and won't change his approach no matter what the contrary data is.
Declining Vinny Curry next up.
There was a post in the PC thread praising DG while sneering at Landon Collins' "fake humble" pose.
Ironic because if LC is prince of fake humble, DG is king.
"I'm like Archie Bunker; every man is my equal because I may learn from him."
BS. All the evidence is that DG has no inclination to learn from anybody, or from any inconvenient empirical information, because he is quite sure he knows it all, already.
on their hands if they draft Murray and keep Rosen.
That will be complete disaster for them.
They may have to take pennies on the dollar now b/c it will be even worse later.
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
Agree that the jury is very much still out on the Darnold/Barkley choice. Could very well turn out that DG made a great decision.
No idea on #2 either, but I think it's something we should aggressively pursue.
My real worry is that we'll end up drafting in the 6-10 range in 2020 and either miss out on the QB's or have to give up a kings ransom for one.
6-10 range with probably 4 potential franchise QB's in the draft.
you are both right. Dallas sat some of their players, but they also took the game far more seriously than we thought they would. I vividly remember Dallas fans and pundits being pissed on twitter that their starters were still in the game because some of them were getting nicked up.
We beat a couple of backup QBs ( 3rd strong in Was) and a put up points on a Dallas team resting for the playoffs.
If this “late season run” is factoring into decisions were doomed.
There was nothing impressive about the play at the end of the year except Barkley. Maybe Engram too. Nothing else should be fooling the Giants FO. We still have a team full of enormous holes and an old QB.
Giants, Rutgers, Knicks? Its torture. I’ve got Barkley to watch. That’s about it.
yup this season smells like 1995. In 94 they went from 3-7 to 9-7 beating a bunch of middling teams or who were resting their starters in six close games and everyone was calling on them to unseat the cowboys the next year, only for that to be squashed in the 35-0 Monday night football debacle. The Giants will suck again next year and Shurmur will go back to being a coordinator where he belongs
Smith May have taken a play off but he was in their trying to stop us on the last drive. Vander Esch played into the 4th before getting hurt. Lawrence started the game.
They tried they’re fucking asses off on defenseZ they blitzed. They mixed coverages. They sold out on Barkley. These aren’t disputed.
Yes Lawrence took off. So that’s one player.
Jesus Christ this place is full of women on their periods.
I personally think his toughness (remember 2011 NFC Championship Game) is gone. I also wonder if the two rings, the kids, the $$$ have lessened his game.
Age can also figure into that. There's a lot of mileage on that body, and as you get older, it takes longer to recover. There's a lot of incentive to protect yourself because you know the bruises and aches aren't going away so fast.
Plus, who could blame him for being less willing to get himself beaten up for a losing team than for a team in contention? It doesn't even have to be conscious. These are split-second decisions.
on their hands if they draft Murray and keep Rosen.
That will be complete disaster for them.
They may have to take pennies on the dollar now b/c it will be even worse later.
I hear you, but what does "complete disaster" mean for the NFL's worst team from 2018?
So things go bad if they keep both. There's a quarterback controversy. Both guys are looking over their shoulder. It's a mess. So what? They already stink.
They can still trade Rosen when the price is right. If they think they're sitting on a valuable asset they don't have to dump him at fire-sale prices. The question is, what is his real value, and does it increase or decrease over time? It's certainly going to decrease after training camp, and maybe after OTAs.
playing 12% of the snaps and none in the second half when the Giants scored most of their points as evidence to you being right is bad even for you.
Someone made a comment that he didn’t play. He played. If that’s confusing to you.... I can’t help you.
He said Vander Esche played 5 snaps... he played into the 4th quarter. He even came back into the game after he got hurt.
He sat Smith sat at the end... he played the entire 2nd half.
I know you and facts don’t go well together... but those are the facts. And also the Cowboys busted their ass on defense from start to finish. But keep on with your shitty fucking narratives.
Played what percentage of snaps in one game at the end of the year that the Giants scored a lot of points in, I hope we all can agree that it's reckless as fuck to look at that offensive performance and declare: "The offensive problems have been figured out and we are guaranteed to perform similarly now that we have a new right guard."
Doesn't get scarier than that.
Let’s not forget the Giants needed a new GM and hired their former GM to help them find one, and he helped them hire their former player personnel guy who was passed over previously for another in house option, all before the season ended.
We're digging our own grave.
I've been consistent with my takes on Eli - he's here to stay whether DG likes it or not and he's trying to make the best of it.
He's just saying that if a guy can play and can fill a role temporarily - his age shouldn't matter. And I agree with this.
Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't - as with any signing. Sometimes you get a Whitworth or a Weddle, and other times you get a Marshall or a Stewart.
Yeah that was a fucking beauty too. No need to shop OBJ to see if you could find a better offer.
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
Quote:
better offer with that "we'd cede leverage" nonsense.
Yeah that was a fucking beauty too. No need to shop OBJ to see if you could find a better offer.
and then contradicted himself by saying he called the Bills
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
I still think we've seen the last of Shepard in a Giants uniform, which is disappointing. Tate's on the wrong side of 30 and making quite a bit of money, and with the slot as his primary position likely makes Shepard redundant.
In their primes they might not have been comparable, but right now I think they're basically a wash when you factor in cost. They're spending more to get older and have the same production. Not a good place to be.
When's the last time this team did anything close to winning a lottery?
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if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
When's the last time this team did anything close to winning a lottery?
10,000 years ago.
Jesus christ.
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
Agree with just about everything you said. What concerns me the most is their inability (or just plain refusal) to see the decline in Eli's play.
This is BBI, where someone once posted they wouldn’t even want the Giants to win the Super Bowl, bc if they did then Coughlin wouldn’t get fired - and that was sometime late in the 2007 Super Bowl season.
Some fans natural reaction is to cry about everything. Strange to me too, but nothing new
Of course, he doesn't give a shit about age.
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if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
This is BBI, where someone once posted they wouldn’t even want the Giants to win the Super Bowl, bc if they did then Coughlin wouldn’t get fired - and that was sometime late in the 2007 Super Bowl season.
Some fans natural reaction is to cry about everything. Strange to me too, but nothing new
OK, I'm calling bullshit on that unless you have some proof.
Someone here said they'd rather not win a SB and have TC fired? Let's see it.
We've been the worst team in the league for two years running now. We just traded arguably our best player. We have a 38 y.o. QB with no plan at all on how to replace him.
Sorry some of us don't see all rainbows and sunshine from this org right now.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
Folks keep saying trade for Rosen or draft this guy or that guy... but those guys are not on the roster right now. And the Giants may not be able to acquire them for a reasonable price.
But if they said that the Giants have no plan - somehow that makes their posts see mcredible. Its downright laughable at this point.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
Absent that I think it's insane to not trade our 2nd round pick for Rosen is possible.
Absent that I'd rather play Lauletta all year to tank and play for a top 3 pick to draft one of Tua, Fromm or Herbert.
I think keeping Eli is the worst possible decision cause we're not good enough to compete for a championship this year but Eli probably still has enough left in the tank to win 5-7 games - just enough to prevent us from grabbing one of the top QB's.
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jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Let’s not forget the Giants needed a new GM and hired their former GM to help them find one, and he helped them hire their former player personnel guy who was passed over previously for another in house option, all before the season ended.
We're digging our own grave.
Fairly accurate.
I still have faith and see a plan, but it is dwindling w every outdated square peg philosophy this guy keep trying to force down a round hole
Well the taxes are bitch. Really not even worth it.
So did Jerry Reese. Your point?
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
Agree that the jury is very much still out on the Darnold/Barkley choice. Could very well turn out that DG made a great decision.
No idea on #2 either, but I think it's something we should aggressively pursue.
My real worry is that we'll end up drafting in the 6-10 range in 2020 and either miss out on the QB's or have to give up a kings ransom for one.
Keep in mind he took over a team that won 3 games the previous year and was an utter disaster on many levels. We won 5 games and were much more competitive last year. Let's see what we do this year.
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Gettleman helped build the past 2 superbowl teams right?
So did Jerry Reese. Your point?
The point I get out of it is that the Giants never pick a GM who is not "family." Only time they didn't was when the league forced them to do.
Well sure... apparently at the end of last season we were the league's best offense, and that was without Golden Tate! We're going to be like the Chiefs now that he's in the fold.
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better offer with that "we'd cede leverage" nonsense.
Yeah that was a fucking beauty too. No need to shop OBJ to see if you could find a better offer.
Its amazing that people are confident in him when you hear him talk.
JFC
If you feel like you need a QB as Gettleman from this draft, it might be "safer" to use your second #1 or your #2 on the QB. (Though Gettleman is on record with his "no guts" comment and his #1 draft pick/QB comment).
This is a REALLY good defensive draft. We need a ton of help on defense. It would suck to grab "just a guy" QB and pass on some quality defensive players.
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Gettleman helped build the past 2 superbowl teams right?
So did Jerry Reese. Your point?
Well, part of the point might be Reese was also around to wreck the joint.
If you feel like you need a QB as Gettleman from this draft, it might be "safer" to use your second #1 or your #2 on the QB. (Though Gettleman is on record with his "no guts" comment and his #1 draft pick/QB comment).
This is a REALLY good defensive draft. We need a ton of help on defense. It would suck to grab "just a guy" QB and pass on some quality defensive players.
Once again I totally agree with you. But if we are tying to compete this year then how are we going to get one of the 2020 QB's? And if we don't get one of the 2020 QB's what the HELL is our plan for a QB moving forward????
I seriously think the plan is to let Eli play another 2 or 3 years (maybe more). Which is why DG's quote about "age not bothering me" scares the hell out of me.
Where do we get our QB? I don't know. All I know is you can't force it.
Half the pundits thought Ryan Leaf was a better prospect than Peyton Manning. I could type out a dozen examples like that.
I don't think Eli has 2 or 3 more good years in him, but I think the Giants disagree. Time will tell.
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In comment 14345031 Eric from BBI said:
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jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Of course it's over and done with, but that doesn't mean the effects of that can't still be discussed and debated. For me, while I absolutely love SB, drafting him and ignoring the QB position as well as most of the free agency moves from last year showed me that the immediate plan was about the short term, which only changed at the end of the season when we started trading players away for picks. Which then tells me that the evaluation of the roster and our ability to be competitive were misjudged.
SB is definitely the best short term prospect for the team, but is he better for the health of the organization in the future years? Will he be effective once we have Eli's successor in place? I think that these are still important questions when looking at DG's plan and can't be summarily dismissed "we didn't take a qb, get over it."
I don't think Eli has 2 or 3 more good years in him, but I think the Giants disagree. Time will tell.
Tesla...Eli is a frustrating player to watch now. He had some of his career games last year from an efficiency perspective. His INTs were way down too. But he's one of those guys who needs an above average OL. I personally think his toughness (remember 2011 NFC Championship Game) is gone. I also wonder if the two rings, the kids, the $$$ have lessened his game.
My biggest issue, and I've talked about this over and over again, is I don't think he will be here when (and if) we turn this around. Hence, I would have tried to have trade him last year (needed his blessing of course).
Yes this is true...
Very weird some people would rather be "right" than have them win...
And now it seems as if the "Draft a Quarterback Obsessives" are repeating the BS...
DG has had less than a year to clean up the JR roster building fiasco give the guy some time...
100% correct.
The whiny asses look for whatever they can to fit their narrative. Such a bore.
That may be very true. But I haven't seen many RBs in my lifetime who look like Barkley.
And I've seen many instances of QB's starting off strong, fading... or starting off strong and staying strong... or starting off poorly and then become a strong player.
We don't know what Darnold will be like and the Barkley vs. Darnold debate won't end for some time (barring injury).
Who can blame him though.....he's got 3 little kids and a couple hundred million in the bank....why should he stand in the pocket and get the snot knocked out of him anymore???
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Gettleman helped build the past 2 superbowl teams right?
So did Jerry Reese. Your point?
We don't have a Marc Ross around.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
Folks keep saying trade for Rosen or draft this guy or that guy... but those guys are not on the roster right now. And the Giants may not be able to acquire them for a reasonable price.
Sure you get a draft pick. The most they were offered for LC was a 4th. Are you waiting for anything of note for a guy like Shepard that the Giants will likely have to deal since he's so similar to Tate? They'll be lucky to get anything.
There's an awful double standard here when it comes to current Giants players, and that's that the team is just fine and dandy without any of them since all the team has been doing is losing the past few years. Apparently, that distinction applies to all except Eli and Saquon.
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I don't recall anyone saying they didn't want them to win the SB at the end of the 2006 season, but there were more than a few rooting against them beating the Skins (and barring an improbable set of circumstances occuring on Sunday) to get to the playoff in the final game of the season (Tiki's last game). We beat the skins, made the playoffs, and We lost to the Eagles the next week by 3 points. A lot of people were angry because the playoff appearance gave TC another year. And of course, he won the Lombardi the next season.
Yes this is true...
Very weird some people would rather be "right" than have them win...
And now it seems as if the "Draft a Quarterback Obsessives" are repeating the BS...
DG has had less than a year to clean up the JR roster building fiasco give the guy some time...
The draft a qb cuz teh analytiks idiots are actually weaving a fantasy irreality in their mind where SB was a bum last year, trade all our picks for world class douche Rosen and wholeheartedly believe Joe Beningo who thinks coach killer Darnold is a messianic figure in Jets history.
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In comment 14345065 Platos said:
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Gettleman helped build the past 2 superbowl teams right?
So did Jerry Reese. Your point?
We don't have a Marc Ross around.
Gettleman helped build 4 SB teams...3 in NY, 1 in Carolina
Johnathan Stewart and Golden Tate were both 30 and over and got multi year deals.
Now yes, Stewart was fairly cuttable after year one - but they got nothing from him last year and he has a dead cap hit for this year.
2) you have to replace these guys in 1-3 years. There's always the risk that you won't. Remember Reese and TE's? He had no problem finding them (Boss, Ballard, Bennett) until all of sudden he couldn't and we end up relying on the likes of Myers and Donnell and Tye.
3) NFL is a young man's game. More so than any other big league. Guys are in their peak probably 24-28. And some go down hill in a hurry. Lose a half step and suddenly they go from Pro Bowl to mediocre. Generally I think you can improve your team a good deal just by getting younger, faster and healthier.
For the millionth time, almost all of Carolina's best players were on the roster the day he was hired. They had a boatload of All Pros and Pro Bowlers, and the only one who was a Gettleman pickup was Trai Turner.
So what do you think the plan is?
So what do you think the plan is?
Play the best player available.... which has been Eli. Until they have an alternative they like, thats the plan. And if things go awry this year, draft a rookie next year and play him.
Its that simple.
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So what do you think the plan is?
Play the best player available.... which has been Eli. Until they have an alternative they like, thats the plan. And if things go awry this year, draft a rookie next year and play him.
Its that simple.
Sorry for the confusion, but when I say plan I mean for 2020, 2021 and beyond. It's pretty clear what the plan for 2019 is.
If this “late season run” is factoring into decisions were doomed.
There was nothing impressive about the play at the end of the year except Barkley. Maybe Engram too. Nothing else should be fooling the Giants FO. We still have a team full of enormous holes and an old QB.
Giants, Rutgers, Knicks? Its torture. I’ve got Barkley to watch. That’s about it.
Whoomp there it is!
None of those things you mentioned have anything to do with how the offense plays against their defenses as Dallas played their entire defense.
who didnt play?
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In comment 14345031 Eric from BBI said:
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jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Remembering circumstances that led to a difficult situation in the hopes you learn from it is not the same as not letting go.
The rookie LB may be their best defender. He never left the field all season. He played 36 snaps.
Who cares what happened.
Tyrone Crawford, inactive
Demarcus Lawrence, 11 snaps
Leighton Vander Esche, 36 snaps
The rookie LB may be their best defender. He never left the field all season. He played 36 snaps.
1. Lawrence has a sack and forced fumble in the game.
2. Vander Esch got hurt in the 3rd quarter and didnt come back.
Wanna try again? Or just admit you were wrong? I recommend the latter.
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Lawrence didn't play.
The rookie LB may be their best defender. He never left the field all season. He played 36 snaps.
1. Lawrence has a sack and forced fumble in the game.
2. Vander Esch got hurt in the 3rd quarter and didnt come back.
Wanna try again? Or just admit you were wrong? I recommend the latter.
Lawrence may have had a sack and forced fumble but he played the equivalent of two drives.
Why not argue about a fucking pre-season game?
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In comment 14345446 KWALL2 said:
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Lawrence didn't play.
The rookie LB may be their best defender. He never left the field all season. He played 36 snaps.
1. Lawrence has a sack and forced fumble in the game.
2. Vander Esch got hurt in the 3rd quarter and didnt come back.
Wanna try again? Or just admit you were wrong? I recommend the latter.
Lawrence may have had a sack and forced fumble but he played the equivalent of two drives.
So he played? Ok. Thanks. And so did vander Esch until he got hurt.
So Tyrone Crawford - their BJ Hill type player sat. One guy. Their LBs played. Their Secondary played. They played. And the Giants did well against them.
That game meant absolutely nothing at all to the Cowboys, and yet they still stuffed that supposedly much-improved Giants offense when the game was on the line. Here's where you pretend that doesn't matter.
That game meant absolutely nothing at all to the Cowboys, and yet they still stuffed that supposedly much-improved Giants offense when the game was on the line. Here's where you pretend that doesn't matter.
4 plays. They gave up 17 goddamn points in the 4th quarter. But lets base it off..... 4 plays. Rational.
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
What if Darnold becomes Eli Manning.
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(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
What if Darnold becomes Eli Manning.
On Sirius this morning, Papa and Weis were pretty adament that the Cards wouldn't get more than a 3 or 3+ for Rosen. They thought a 1 was out of the question and a 2 would be pushing it.
And of course we were shut out in the Titans game.
The Dallas game was a big factor in trading Beckham, keeping Eli, not trading or drafting a QB?
I saw enough in that game. We are ready to win now.
So he played and contributed? Thanks for playing.
Vander had a minor injury and sat. If the game meant something he would have played.
They didn't care about the game.
The Dallas game was a big factor in trading Beckham, keeping Eli, not trading or drafting a QB?
I saw enough in that game. We are ready to win now.
Let's not forget Eli's performance vs. the Eagles in 2017. Certainly that alone is worthy of a 3 year extension.
If you take off the 8-0 two playoff runs, Eli's career - aside from the cumulative numbers - isn't very special.
But that 8-0 playoff run changes everything.
So Darnold has to win the rings or become one of the better QB's in the league.
Barkley? I think his biggest challenge is going to be staying healthy. How long will his career be? If he stays healthy, he can be all-time great.
So there's the rub.
The Barwin mistake was compounded by effectively cutting Okwara to make room: a good, useful, much younger and cheaper player.
If DG said "age doesn't bother me; look how I was successful with so-and-so", I'd pay attention.
But the impression is that he just has his nuggets and won't change his approach no matter what the contrary data is.
Declining Vinny Curry next up.
There was a post in the PC thread praising DG while sneering at Landon Collins' "fake humble" pose.
Ironic because if LC is prince of fake humble, DG is king.
"I'm like Archie Bunker; every man is my equal because I may learn from him."
BS. All the evidence is that DG has no inclination to learn from anybody, or from any inconvenient empirical information, because he is quite sure he knows it all, already.
Damn those facts...
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if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
When's the last time this team did anything close to winning a lottery?
Saquon.
That will be complete disaster for them.
They may have to take pennies on the dollar now b/c it will be even worse later.
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(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
Agree that the jury is very much still out on the Darnold/Barkley choice. Could very well turn out that DG made a great decision.
No idea on #2 either, but I think it's something we should aggressively pursue.
My real worry is that we'll end up drafting in the 6-10 range in 2020 and either miss out on the QB's or have to give up a kings ransom for one.
6-10 range with probably 4 potential franchise QB's in the draft.
2 best defenders.
Damn those facts.
Your point that "he played" 10 snaps so I win is laughable. OK he played 10 snaps out of 70+. He wasn't out there when Giants did anything.
In the first half we had 7 total points.
Lawrence did not play in the 2nd half.
Vander played very little.
But you win? Sure.
Which is truly a fact.
Crawford played 0 out of 70+
Vander played how many 2nd half snaps? 5? Thats "not playing" in the 2nd half.
But carry on. It was a stellar offensive performance and should be a key factor for team evaluation and our off season strategy.
He "rested" in our game and missed sat.
The 2 elite defenders on the team played a total of 48 snaps out of 140+. This right there is enough.
I win!
Smith played the whole game
And vander esch played into the 4th quarter before getting hurt.
Thanks for playing.
He "rested" in our game and missed sat.
The 2 elite defenders on the team played a total of 48 snaps out of 140+. This right there is enough.
I win!
Smith played the whole game.
If this “late season run” is factoring into decisions were doomed.
There was nothing impressive about the play at the end of the year except Barkley. Maybe Engram too. Nothing else should be fooling the Giants FO. We still have a team full of enormous holes and an old QB.
Giants, Rutgers, Knicks? Its torture. I’ve got Barkley to watch. That’s about it.
Crawford played 0. And then played a ton in the playoffs.
Lawrence played 12.
Vander played 36 snaps.
It wasn't a real game for Dallas. If it was, at the very least, Lawrence and Vander play all game.
They tried they’re fucking asses off on defenseZ they blitzed. They mixed coverages. They sold out on Barkley. These aren’t disputed.
Yes Lawrence took off. So that’s one player.
Jesus Christ this place is full of women on their periods.
And then we have the trio of Crawford, Vand, and Lawrence playing 45 out of 210+ snaps.
Lawrence played 12. But you want to tell us "he played". OK?
The 2nd half we had 3 long TD drives.
Vander played 5 out of 40 second half snaps.
Lawrence 0 out of 40.
Crawford 0 out of 40.
But they "mixed coverages"? OK. Thanks.
And we scored on the 2 drives in those “5 snaps.”
But smith took a a play off - so Dallas didn’t try onndefense.
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In comment 14345001 dep026 said:
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if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
When's the last time this team did anything close to winning a lottery?
Saquon.
And yet when you suggest to people that they should have tanked for a higher pick for more players of his caliber, you get blowtorched.
Who cares what happened.
The Giants responsible for self-scouting sure as shit care!
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if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
When's the last time this team did anything close to winning a lottery?
Last April. Pick 2. First round.
Plus, who could blame him for being less willing to get himself beaten up for a losing team than for a team in contention? It doesn't even have to be conscious. These are split-second decisions.
That will be complete disaster for them.
They may have to take pennies on the dollar now b/c it will be even worse later.
So things go bad if they keep both. There's a quarterback controversy. Both guys are looking over their shoulder. It's a mess. So what? They already stink.
They can still trade Rosen when the price is right. If they think they're sitting on a valuable asset they don't have to dump him at fire-sale prices. The question is, what is his real value, and does it increase or decrease over time? It's certainly going to decrease after training camp, and maybe after OTAs.
Someone made a comment that he didn’t play. He played. If that’s confusing to you.... I can’t help you.
He said Vander Esche played 5 snaps... he played into the 4th quarter. He even came back into the game after he got hurt.
He sat Smith sat at the end... he played the entire 2nd half.
I know you and facts don’t go well together... but those are the facts. And also the Cowboys busted their ass on defense from start to finish. But keep on with your shitty fucking narratives.