Really explains a lot about where we are headed. Jonathan Stewart "hasn't lost a step" and no need for a QB succession plan cause Eli can still make all the throws.
“This narrative that Eli’s overpaid and can’t play is a crock. With the way we ended the season, and what he's making, there really wasn't a decision to make."
Let’s not forget the Giants needed a new GM and hired their former GM to help them find one, and he helped them hire their former player personnel guy who was passed over previously for another in house option, all before the season ended.
We're digging our own grave.
it was more disturbing that he doesn't believe in trying to find a Â
He's not talking about signing a 36 year old player to a 5 year deal worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
He's just saying that if a guy can play and can fill a role temporarily - his age shouldn't matter. And I agree with this.
Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't - as with any signing. Sometimes you get a Whitworth or a Weddle, and other times you get a Marshall or a Stewart.
RE: it was more disturbing that he doesn't believe in trying to find a Â
that quote doesn't bother me all that much... it's the context that matters.
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
RE: RE: it was more disturbing that he doesn't believe in trying to find a Â
that quote doesn't bother me all that much... it's the context that matters.
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
I still think we've seen the last of Shepard in a Giants uniform, which is disappointing. Tate's on the wrong side of 30 and making quite a bit of money, and with the slot as his primary position likely makes Shepard redundant.
In their primes they might not have been comparable, but right now I think they're basically a wash when you factor in cost. They're spending more to get older and have the same production. Not a good place to be.
that quote doesn't bother me all that much... it's the context that matters.
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
Agree with just about everything you said. What concerns me the most is their inability (or just plain refusal) to see the decline in Eli's play.
if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
This is BBI, where someone once posted they wouldn’t even want the Giants to win the Super Bowl, bc if they did then Coughlin wouldn’t get fired - and that was sometime late in the 2007 Super Bowl season.
Some fans natural reaction is to cry about everything. Strange to me too, but nothing new
if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
This is BBI, where someone once posted they wouldn’t even want the Giants to win the Super Bowl, bc if they did then Coughlin wouldn’t get fired - and that was sometime late in the 2007 Super Bowl season.
Some fans natural reaction is to cry about everything. Strange to me too, but nothing new
OK, I'm calling bullshit on that unless you have some proof.
Someone here said they'd rather not win a SB and have TC fired? Let's see it.
if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
We've been the worst team in the league for two years running now. We just traded arguably our best player. We have a 38 y.o. QB with no plan at all on how to replace him.
Sorry some of us don't see all rainbows and sunshine from this org right now.
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
Folks keep saying trade for Rosen or draft this guy or that guy... but those guys are not on the roster right now. And the Giants may not be able to acquire them for a reasonable price.
I don't recall anyone saying they didn't want them to win the SB at the end of the 2006 season, but there were more than a few rooting against them beating the Skins (and barring an improbable set of circumstances occuring on Sunday) to get to the playoff in the final game of the season (Tiki's last game). We beat the skins, made the playoffs, and We lost to the Eagles the next week by 3 points. A lot of people were angry because the playoff appearance gave TC another year. And of course, he won the Lombardi the next season.
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
Absent that I think it's insane to not trade our 2nd round pick for Rosen is possible.
Absent that I'd rather play Lauletta all year to tank and play for a top 3 pick to draft one of Tua, Fromm or Herbert.
I think keeping Eli is the worst possible decision cause we're not good enough to compete for a championship this year but Eli probably still has enough left in the tank to win 5-7 games - just enough to prevent us from grabbing one of the top QB's.
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Let’s not forget the Giants needed a new GM and hired their former GM to help them find one, and he helped them hire their former player personnel guy who was passed over previously for another in house option, all before the season ended.
We're digging our own grave.
Fairly accurate.
I still have faith and see a plan, but it is dwindling w every outdated square peg philosophy this guy keep trying to force down a round hole
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
Agree that the jury is very much still out on the Darnold/Barkley choice. Could very well turn out that DG made a great decision.
No idea on #2 either, but I think it's something we should aggressively pursue.
My real worry is that we'll end up drafting in the 6-10 range in 2020 and either miss out on the QB's or have to give up a kings ransom for one.
right. Don't understand the obsession with Stewart. If you are going to criticize Gettlemen, I think there are better arguments to make.
Keep in mind he took over a team that won 3 games the previous year and was an utter disaster on many levels. We won 5 games and were much more competitive last year. Let's see what we do this year.
But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
Well sure... apparently at the end of last season we were the league's best offense, and that was without Golden Tate! We're going to be like the Chiefs now that he's in the fold.
RE: RE: it was more disturbing that he doesn't believe in trying to find a Â
I would not be shocked if the Giants pass on a QB this year. The guys being talked about at #6 (or higher with a trade) are FAR from sure things. IMO, there is a high bust risk there.
If you feel like you need a QB as Gettleman from this draft, it might be "safer" to use your second #1 or your #2 on the QB. (Though Gettleman is on record with his "no guts" comment and his #1 draft pick/QB comment).
This is a REALLY good defensive draft. We need a ton of help on defense. It would suck to grab "just a guy" QB and pass on some quality defensive players.
I would not be shocked if the Giants pass on a QB this year. The guys being talked about at #6 (or higher with a trade) are FAR from sure things. IMO, there is a high bust risk there.
If you feel like you need a QB as Gettleman from this draft, it might be "safer" to use your second #1 or your #2 on the QB. (Though Gettleman is on record with his "no guts" comment and his #1 draft pick/QB comment).
This is a REALLY good defensive draft. We need a ton of help on defense. It would suck to grab "just a guy" QB and pass on some quality defensive players.
Once again I totally agree with you. But if we are tying to compete this year then how are we going to get one of the 2020 QB's? And if we don't get one of the 2020 QB's what the HELL is our plan for a QB moving forward????
I seriously think the plan is to let Eli play another 2 or 3 years (maybe more). Which is why DG's quote about "age not bothering me" scares the hell out of me.
the QB question is the biggest issue this team faces. I haven't seen too many NFL teams deliberately tank a season for a specific player. I don't think you can really plan that. Even bad teams in the NFL are usually competitive. And guys who you thought would be the #1 or #2 player in the country the year before often fall down the ladder.
Where do we get our QB? I don't know. All I know is you can't force it.
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Of course it's over and done with, but that doesn't mean the effects of that can't still be discussed and debated. For me, while I absolutely love SB, drafting him and ignoring the QB position as well as most of the free agency moves from last year showed me that the immediate plan was about the short term, which only changed at the end of the season when we started trading players away for picks. Which then tells me that the evaluation of the roster and our ability to be competitive were misjudged.
SB is definitely the best short term prospect for the team, but is he better for the health of the organization in the future years? Will he be effective once we have Eli's successor in place? I think that these are still important questions when looking at DG's plan and can't be summarily dismissed "we didn't take a qb, get over it."
Hard to argue with what you are saying, but at some point you have to pull the trigger and take a chance on a QB.
I don't think Eli has 2 or 3 more good years in him, but I think the Giants disagree. Time will tell.
Tesla...Eli is a frustrating player to watch now. He had some of his career games last year from an efficiency perspective. His INTs were way down too. But he's one of those guys who needs an above average OL. I personally think his toughness (remember 2011 NFC Championship Game) is gone. I also wonder if the two rings, the kids, the $$$ have lessened his game.
My biggest issue, and I've talked about this over and over again, is I don't think he will be here when (and if) we turn this around. Hence, I would have tried to have trade him last year (needed his blessing of course).
I don't recall anyone saying they didn't want them to win the SB at the end of the 2006 season, but there were more than a few rooting against them beating the Skins (and barring an improbable set of circumstances occuring on Sunday) to get to the playoff in the final game of the season (Tiki's last game). We beat the skins, made the playoffs, and We lost to the Eagles the next week by 3 points. A lot of people were angry because the playoff appearance gave TC another year. And of course, he won the Lombardi the next season.
Yes this is true...
Very weird some people would rather be "right" than have them win...
And now it seems as if the "Draft a Quarterback Obsessives" are repeating the BS...
DG has had less than a year to clean up the JR roster building fiasco give the guy some time...
Doesn't get scarier than that.
Let’s not forget the Giants needed a new GM and hired their former GM to help them find one, and he helped them hire their former player personnel guy who was passed over previously for another in house option, all before the season ended.
We're digging our own grave.
I've been consistent with my takes on Eli - he's here to stay whether DG likes it or not and he's trying to make the best of it.
He's just saying that if a guy can play and can fill a role temporarily - his age shouldn't matter. And I agree with this.
Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't - as with any signing. Sometimes you get a Whitworth or a Weddle, and other times you get a Marshall or a Stewart.
Yeah that was a fucking beauty too. No need to shop OBJ to see if you could find a better offer.
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
Quote:
better offer with that "we'd cede leverage" nonsense.
Yeah that was a fucking beauty too. No need to shop OBJ to see if you could find a better offer.
and then contradicted himself by saying he called the Bills
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
I still think we've seen the last of Shepard in a Giants uniform, which is disappointing. Tate's on the wrong side of 30 and making quite a bit of money, and with the slot as his primary position likely makes Shepard redundant.
In their primes they might not have been comparable, but right now I think they're basically a wash when you factor in cost. They're spending more to get older and have the same production. Not a good place to be.
When's the last time this team did anything close to winning a lottery?
Quote:
if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
When's the last time this team did anything close to winning a lottery?
10,000 years ago.
Jesus christ.
If you are signing a guy like Bethea to a 2-year deal (which is really more of 1-year deal), that makes sense. At worst, he's an insurance policy. Bethea has been a good player wherever he has been and was still playing at a respectable level last year. He's a massive upgrade over Curtis Riley in the SHORT-TERM.
Stewart bothered most of us because he seemed to be getting paid more than he should have... none of us were surprised that he was a bust here.
I think the guy who everyone is on the fence about is Golden Tate. He got a good chunk of change. Those who like the signing recognize we have very little at WR. Tate is good teammates, will block for the run, and does a lot of damage after the catch. But he's also another slot guy and on the wrongside of 30. Reeks of stopgap. But it also reasonable to believe that the offense will still be potentially strong with a better OL, even without Beckham.
Agree with just about everything you said. What concerns me the most is their inability (or just plain refusal) to see the decline in Eli's play.
This is BBI, where someone once posted they wouldn’t even want the Giants to win the Super Bowl, bc if they did then Coughlin wouldn’t get fired - and that was sometime late in the 2007 Super Bowl season.
Some fans natural reaction is to cry about everything. Strange to me too, but nothing new
Of course, he doesn't give a shit about age.
Quote:
if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
This is BBI, where someone once posted they wouldn’t even want the Giants to win the Super Bowl, bc if they did then Coughlin wouldn’t get fired - and that was sometime late in the 2007 Super Bowl season.
Some fans natural reaction is to cry about everything. Strange to me too, but nothing new
OK, I'm calling bullshit on that unless you have some proof.
Someone here said they'd rather not win a SB and have TC fired? Let's see it.
We've been the worst team in the league for two years running now. We just traded arguably our best player. We have a 38 y.o. QB with no plan at all on how to replace him.
Sorry some of us don't see all rainbows and sunshine from this org right now.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
Folks keep saying trade for Rosen or draft this guy or that guy... but those guys are not on the roster right now. And the Giants may not be able to acquire them for a reasonable price.
But if they said that the Giants have no plan - somehow that makes their posts see mcredible. Its downright laughable at this point.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
Absent that I think it's insane to not trade our 2nd round pick for Rosen is possible.
Absent that I'd rather play Lauletta all year to tank and play for a top 3 pick to draft one of Tua, Fromm or Herbert.
I think keeping Eli is the worst possible decision cause we're not good enough to compete for a championship this year but Eli probably still has enough left in the tank to win 5-7 games - just enough to prevent us from grabbing one of the top QB's.
Quote:
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Let’s not forget the Giants needed a new GM and hired their former GM to help them find one, and he helped them hire their former player personnel guy who was passed over previously for another in house option, all before the season ended.
We're digging our own grave.
Fairly accurate.
I still have faith and see a plan, but it is dwindling w every outdated square peg philosophy this guy keep trying to force down a round hole
Well the taxes are bitch. Really not even worth it.
So did Jerry Reese. Your point?
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
Agree that the jury is very much still out on the Darnold/Barkley choice. Could very well turn out that DG made a great decision.
No idea on #2 either, but I think it's something we should aggressively pursue.
My real worry is that we'll end up drafting in the 6-10 range in 2020 and either miss out on the QB's or have to give up a kings ransom for one.
Keep in mind he took over a team that won 3 games the previous year and was an utter disaster on many levels. We won 5 games and were much more competitive last year. Let's see what we do this year.
Quote:
Gettleman helped build the past 2 superbowl teams right?
So did Jerry Reese. Your point?
The point I get out of it is that the Giants never pick a GM who is not "family." Only time they didn't was when the league forced them to do.
Well sure... apparently at the end of last season we were the league's best offense, and that was without Golden Tate! We're going to be like the Chiefs now that he's in the fold.
Quote:
better offer with that "we'd cede leverage" nonsense.
Yeah that was a fucking beauty too. No need to shop OBJ to see if you could find a better offer.
Its amazing that people are confident in him when you hear him talk.
JFC
If you feel like you need a QB as Gettleman from this draft, it might be "safer" to use your second #1 or your #2 on the QB. (Though Gettleman is on record with his "no guts" comment and his #1 draft pick/QB comment).
This is a REALLY good defensive draft. We need a ton of help on defense. It would suck to grab "just a guy" QB and pass on some quality defensive players.
Quote:
Gettleman helped build the past 2 superbowl teams right?
So did Jerry Reese. Your point?
Well, part of the point might be Reese was also around to wreck the joint.
If you feel like you need a QB as Gettleman from this draft, it might be "safer" to use your second #1 or your #2 on the QB. (Though Gettleman is on record with his "no guts" comment and his #1 draft pick/QB comment).
This is a REALLY good defensive draft. We need a ton of help on defense. It would suck to grab "just a guy" QB and pass on some quality defensive players.
Once again I totally agree with you. But if we are tying to compete this year then how are we going to get one of the 2020 QB's? And if we don't get one of the 2020 QB's what the HELL is our plan for a QB moving forward????
I seriously think the plan is to let Eli play another 2 or 3 years (maybe more). Which is why DG's quote about "age not bothering me" scares the hell out of me.
Where do we get our QB? I don't know. All I know is you can't force it.
Half the pundits thought Ryan Leaf was a better prospect than Peyton Manning. I could type out a dozen examples like that.
I don't think Eli has 2 or 3 more good years in him, but I think the Giants disagree. Time will tell.
Quote:
In comment 14345031 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Of course it's over and done with, but that doesn't mean the effects of that can't still be discussed and debated. For me, while I absolutely love SB, drafting him and ignoring the QB position as well as most of the free agency moves from last year showed me that the immediate plan was about the short term, which only changed at the end of the season when we started trading players away for picks. Which then tells me that the evaluation of the roster and our ability to be competitive were misjudged.
SB is definitely the best short term prospect for the team, but is he better for the health of the organization in the future years? Will he be effective once we have Eli's successor in place? I think that these are still important questions when looking at DG's plan and can't be summarily dismissed "we didn't take a qb, get over it."
I don't think Eli has 2 or 3 more good years in him, but I think the Giants disagree. Time will tell.
Tesla...Eli is a frustrating player to watch now. He had some of his career games last year from an efficiency perspective. His INTs were way down too. But he's one of those guys who needs an above average OL. I personally think his toughness (remember 2011 NFC Championship Game) is gone. I also wonder if the two rings, the kids, the $$$ have lessened his game.
My biggest issue, and I've talked about this over and over again, is I don't think he will be here when (and if) we turn this around. Hence, I would have tried to have trade him last year (needed his blessing of course).
Yes this is true...
Very weird some people would rather be "right" than have them win...
And now it seems as if the "Draft a Quarterback Obsessives" are repeating the BS...
DG has had less than a year to clean up the JR roster building fiasco give the guy some time...