Really explains a lot about where we are headed. Jonathan Stewart "hasn't lost a step" and no need for a QB succession plan cause Eli can still make all the throws.
player now - he's a RUNNING BACK, not a 21 YR OLD QB. Eli looked like crap for almost 4 years. In 3-4 years we will have our answer.
That may be very true. But I haven't seen many RBs in my lifetime who look like Barkley.
And I've seen many instances of QB's starting off strong, fading... or starting off strong and staying strong... or starting off poorly and then become a strong player.
We don't know what Darnold will be like and the Barkley vs. Darnold debate won't end for some time (barring injury).
I could not agree more about the toughness thing. Eli used to be the toughest SOB around.....so watching him hit the deck last year in anticipation of being sacked was really painful to watch.
Who can blame him though.....he's got 3 little kids and a couple hundred million in the bank....why should he stand in the pocket and get the snot knocked out of him anymore???
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
Folks keep saying trade for Rosen or draft this guy or that guy... but those guys are not on the roster right now. And the Giants may not be able to acquire them for a reasonable price.
Sure you get a draft pick. The most they were offered for LC was a 4th. Are you waiting for anything of note for a guy like Shepard that the Giants will likely have to deal since he's so similar to Tate? They'll be lucky to get anything.
There's an awful double standard here when it comes to current Giants players, and that's that the team is just fine and dandy without any of them since all the team has been doing is losing the past few years. Apparently, that distinction applies to all except Eli and Saquon.
I don't recall anyone saying they didn't want them to win the SB at the end of the 2006 season, but there were more than a few rooting against them beating the Skins (and barring an improbable set of circumstances occuring on Sunday) to get to the playoff in the final game of the season (Tiki's last game). We beat the skins, made the playoffs, and We lost to the Eagles the next week by 3 points. A lot of people were angry because the playoff appearance gave TC another year. And of course, he won the Lombardi the next season.
Yes this is true...
Very weird some people would rather be "right" than have them win...
And now it seems as if the "Draft a Quarterback Obsessives" are repeating the BS...
DG has had less than a year to clean up the JR roster building fiasco give the guy some time...
The draft a qb cuz teh analytiks idiots are actually weaving a fantasy irreality in their mind where SB was a bum last year, trade all our picks for world class douche Rosen and wholeheartedly believe Joe Beningo who thinks coach killer Darnold is a messianic figure in Jets history.
1) you want to develop a core of players - older guys by definition won't be that
2) you have to replace these guys in 1-3 years. There's always the risk that you won't. Remember Reese and TE's? He had no problem finding them (Boss, Ballard, Bennett) until all of sudden he couldn't and we end up relying on the likes of Myers and Donnell and Tye.
3) NFL is a young man's game. More so than any other big league. Guys are in their peak probably 24-28. And some go down hill in a hurry. Lose a half step and suddenly they go from Pro Bowl to mediocre. Generally I think you can improve your team a good deal just by getting younger, faster and healthier.
why so many insist there is no QB succession plan. Just because Mara doesn't invite you mooks to come in and be briefed doesn't mean they don't have a plan they want to pursue. Jesus you people are exhausting...
Gettleman helped build 4 SB teams...3 in NY, 1 in Carolina
For the millionth time, almost all of Carolina's best players were on the roster the day he was hired. They had a boatload of All Pros and Pro Bowlers, and the only one who was a Gettleman pickup was Trai Turner.
I can't imagine why one would assume Mara has it all under control Â
Were we all unconscious for the clown show that was the Tom Coughlin not-a-firing, or the way he apparently wasn't aware of the plan his own GM and coach undertook for getting a different QB game reps?
why so many insist there is no QB succession plan. Just because Mara doesn't invite you mooks to come in and be briefed doesn't mean they don't have a plan they want to pursue. Jesus you people are exhausting...
Play the best player available.... which has been Eli. Until they have an alternative they like, thats the plan. And if things go awry this year, draft a rookie next year and play him.
Play the best player available.... which has been Eli. Until they have an alternative they like, thats the plan. And if things go awry this year, draft a rookie next year and play him.
Its that simple.
Sorry for the confusion, but when I say plan I mean for 2020, 2021 and beyond. It's pretty clear what the plan for 2019 is.
We beat a couple of backup QBs ( 3rd strong in Was) and a put up points on a Dallas team resting for the playoffs.
If this “late season run” is factoring into decisions were doomed.
There was nothing impressive about the play at the end of the year except Barkley. Maybe Engram too. Nothing else should be fooling the Giants FO. We still have a team full of enormous holes and an old QB.
Giants, Rutgers, Knicks? Its torture. I’ve got Barkley to watch. That’s about it.
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Remembering circumstances that led to a difficult situation in the hopes you learn from it is not the same as not letting go.
The rookie LB may be their best defender. He never left the field all season. He played 36 snaps.
1. Lawrence has a sack and forced fumble in the game.
2. Vander Esch got hurt in the 3rd quarter and didnt come back.
Wanna try again? Or just admit you were wrong? I recommend the latter.
Lawrence may have had a sack and forced fumble but he played the equivalent of two drives.
So he played? Ok. Thanks. And so did vander Esch until he got hurt.
So Tyrone Crawford - their BJ Hill type player sat. One guy. Their LBs played. Their Secondary played. They played. And the Giants did well against them.
Managed to make a major impact in those 11 snaps, too. But hey, he's only their best defensive player. I'm sure it made no difference that he sat for most of the game.
That game meant absolutely nothing at all to the Cowboys, and yet they still stuffed that supposedly much-improved Giants offense when the game was on the line. Here's where you pretend that doesn't matter.
That game meant absolutely nothing at all to the Cowboys, and yet they still stuffed that supposedly much-improved Giants offense when the game was on the line. Here's where you pretend that doesn't matter.
4 plays. They gave up 17 goddamn points in the 4th quarter. But lets base it off..... 4 plays. Rational.
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
What if Darnold becomes Eli Manning.
On Sirius this morning, Papa and Weis were pretty adament that the Cards wouldn't get more than a 3 or 3+ for Rosen. They thought a 1 was out of the question and a 2 would be pushing it.
Drew Bledsoe would be like the 2nd most prolific passer Â
Our offense started that game with 3 drives that went nowhere then a FG on the 4th drive....but were saved because the defense kept getting the ball back for them immediately and then eventually scored on a pick 6. And other than Barkley breaking a few huge runs our offense didn't really do that much...it was the defense that dominated that game.
And of course we were shut out in the Titans game.
Those were the two "age" signings last year that I can recall and both were total busts.
The Barwin mistake was compounded by effectively cutting Okwara to make room: a good, useful, much younger and cheaper player.
If DG said "age doesn't bother me; look how I was successful with so-and-so", I'd pay attention.
But the impression is that he just has his nuggets and won't change his approach no matter what the contrary data is.
Declining Vinny Curry next up.
There was a post in the PC thread praising DG while sneering at Landon Collins' "fake humble" pose.
Ironic because if LC is prince of fake humble, DG is king.
"I'm like Archie Bunker; every man is my equal because I may learn from him."
BS. All the evidence is that DG has no inclination to learn from anybody, or from any inconvenient empirical information, because he is quite sure he knows it all, already.
on their hands if they draft Murray and keep Rosen.
That will be complete disaster for them.
They may have to take pennies on the dollar now b/c it will be even worse later.
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
Agree that the jury is very much still out on the Darnold/Barkley choice. Could very well turn out that DG made a great decision.
No idea on #2 either, but I think it's something we should aggressively pursue.
My real worry is that we'll end up drafting in the 6-10 range in 2020 and either miss out on the QB's or have to give up a kings ransom for one.
6-10 range with probably 4 potential franchise QB's in the draft.
100% correct.
The whiny asses look for whatever they can to fit their narrative. Such a bore.
That may be very true. But I haven't seen many RBs in my lifetime who look like Barkley.
And I've seen many instances of QB's starting off strong, fading... or starting off strong and staying strong... or starting off poorly and then become a strong player.
We don't know what Darnold will be like and the Barkley vs. Darnold debate won't end for some time (barring injury).
Who can blame him though.....he's got 3 little kids and a couple hundred million in the bank....why should he stand in the pocket and get the snot knocked out of him anymore???
Quote:
Gettleman helped build the past 2 superbowl teams right?
So did Jerry Reese. Your point?
We don't have a Marc Ross around.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
Folks keep saying trade for Rosen or draft this guy or that guy... but those guys are not on the roster right now. And the Giants may not be able to acquire them for a reasonable price.
Sure you get a draft pick. The most they were offered for LC was a 4th. Are you waiting for anything of note for a guy like Shepard that the Giants will likely have to deal since he's so similar to Tate? They'll be lucky to get anything.
There's an awful double standard here when it comes to current Giants players, and that's that the team is just fine and dandy without any of them since all the team has been doing is losing the past few years. Apparently, that distinction applies to all except Eli and Saquon.
Quote:
I don't recall anyone saying they didn't want them to win the SB at the end of the 2006 season, but there were more than a few rooting against them beating the Skins (and barring an improbable set of circumstances occuring on Sunday) to get to the playoff in the final game of the season (Tiki's last game). We beat the skins, made the playoffs, and We lost to the Eagles the next week by 3 points. A lot of people were angry because the playoff appearance gave TC another year. And of course, he won the Lombardi the next season.
Yes this is true...
Very weird some people would rather be "right" than have them win...
And now it seems as if the "Draft a Quarterback Obsessives" are repeating the BS...
DG has had less than a year to clean up the JR roster building fiasco give the guy some time...
The draft a qb cuz teh analytiks idiots are actually weaving a fantasy irreality in their mind where SB was a bum last year, trade all our picks for world class douche Rosen and wholeheartedly believe Joe Beningo who thinks coach killer Darnold is a messianic figure in Jets history.
Quote:
In comment 14345065 Platos said:
Quote:
Gettleman helped build the past 2 superbowl teams right?
So did Jerry Reese. Your point?
We don't have a Marc Ross around.
Gettleman helped build 4 SB teams...3 in NY, 1 in Carolina
Johnathan Stewart and Golden Tate were both 30 and over and got multi year deals.
Now yes, Stewart was fairly cuttable after year one - but they got nothing from him last year and he has a dead cap hit for this year.
2) you have to replace these guys in 1-3 years. There's always the risk that you won't. Remember Reese and TE's? He had no problem finding them (Boss, Ballard, Bennett) until all of sudden he couldn't and we end up relying on the likes of Myers and Donnell and Tye.
3) NFL is a young man's game. More so than any other big league. Guys are in their peak probably 24-28. And some go down hill in a hurry. Lose a half step and suddenly they go from Pro Bowl to mediocre. Generally I think you can improve your team a good deal just by getting younger, faster and healthier.
For the millionth time, almost all of Carolina's best players were on the roster the day he was hired. They had a boatload of All Pros and Pro Bowlers, and the only one who was a Gettleman pickup was Trai Turner.
So what do you think the plan is?
So what do you think the plan is?
Play the best player available.... which has been Eli. Until they have an alternative they like, thats the plan. And if things go awry this year, draft a rookie next year and play him.
Its that simple.
Quote:
So what do you think the plan is?
Play the best player available.... which has been Eli. Until they have an alternative they like, thats the plan. And if things go awry this year, draft a rookie next year and play him.
Its that simple.
Sorry for the confusion, but when I say plan I mean for 2020, 2021 and beyond. It's pretty clear what the plan for 2019 is.
If this “late season run” is factoring into decisions were doomed.
There was nothing impressive about the play at the end of the year except Barkley. Maybe Engram too. Nothing else should be fooling the Giants FO. We still have a team full of enormous holes and an old QB.
Giants, Rutgers, Knicks? Its torture. I’ve got Barkley to watch. That’s about it.
Whoomp there it is!
None of those things you mentioned have anything to do with how the offense plays against their defenses as Dallas played their entire defense.
who didnt play?
Quote:
In comment 14345031 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
jcn... PLUS, you get a DRAFT PICK by trading Shepard.
Tesla... Lauletta shit the bed last year. So it comes down to this. Would you have preferred to cut Eli, swallow his remaining dead money, and then sign some temporary stop gap like Fitzpatrick and/or go with Alex Tanney in 2019?
I would have preferred to draft Darnold.
As Tag Team once famously stated - "Whoomp! There it is."
People need to let go of the 2018 draft. Its done and over with and we took a great player. BBI reminds me of the 40 year old at the bar who cant let go of his high school years.
Remembering circumstances that led to a difficult situation in the hopes you learn from it is not the same as not letting go.
The rookie LB may be their best defender. He never left the field all season. He played 36 snaps.
Who cares what happened.
Tyrone Crawford, inactive
Demarcus Lawrence, 11 snaps
Leighton Vander Esche, 36 snaps
The rookie LB may be their best defender. He never left the field all season. He played 36 snaps.
1. Lawrence has a sack and forced fumble in the game.
2. Vander Esch got hurt in the 3rd quarter and didnt come back.
Wanna try again? Or just admit you were wrong? I recommend the latter.
Quote:
Lawrence didn't play.
The rookie LB may be their best defender. He never left the field all season. He played 36 snaps.
1. Lawrence has a sack and forced fumble in the game.
2. Vander Esch got hurt in the 3rd quarter and didnt come back.
Wanna try again? Or just admit you were wrong? I recommend the latter.
Lawrence may have had a sack and forced fumble but he played the equivalent of two drives.
Why not argue about a fucking pre-season game?
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In comment 14345446 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Lawrence didn't play.
The rookie LB may be their best defender. He never left the field all season. He played 36 snaps.
1. Lawrence has a sack and forced fumble in the game.
2. Vander Esch got hurt in the 3rd quarter and didnt come back.
Wanna try again? Or just admit you were wrong? I recommend the latter.
Lawrence may have had a sack and forced fumble but he played the equivalent of two drives.
So he played? Ok. Thanks. And so did vander Esch until he got hurt.
So Tyrone Crawford - their BJ Hill type player sat. One guy. Their LBs played. Their Secondary played. They played. And the Giants did well against them.
That game meant absolutely nothing at all to the Cowboys, and yet they still stuffed that supposedly much-improved Giants offense when the game was on the line. Here's where you pretend that doesn't matter.
That game meant absolutely nothing at all to the Cowboys, and yet they still stuffed that supposedly much-improved Giants offense when the game was on the line. Here's where you pretend that doesn't matter.
4 plays. They gave up 17 goddamn points in the 4th quarter. But lets base it off..... 4 plays. Rational.
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
What if Darnold becomes Eli Manning.
Quote:
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
What if Darnold becomes Eli Manning.
On Sirius this morning, Papa and Weis were pretty adament that the Cards wouldn't get more than a 3 or 3+ for Rosen. They thought a 1 was out of the question and a 2 would be pushing it.
And of course we were shut out in the Titans game.
The Dallas game was a big factor in trading Beckham, keeping Eli, not trading or drafting a QB?
I saw enough in that game. We are ready to win now.
So he played and contributed? Thanks for playing.
Vander had a minor injury and sat. If the game meant something he would have played.
They didn't care about the game.
The Dallas game was a big factor in trading Beckham, keeping Eli, not trading or drafting a QB?
I saw enough in that game. We are ready to win now.
Let's not forget Eli's performance vs. the Eagles in 2017. Certainly that alone is worthy of a 3 year extension.
If you take off the 8-0 two playoff runs, Eli's career - aside from the cumulative numbers - isn't very special.
But that 8-0 playoff run changes everything.
So Darnold has to win the rings or become one of the better QB's in the league.
Barkley? I think his biggest challenge is going to be staying healthy. How long will his career be? If he stays healthy, he can be all-time great.
So there's the rub.
The Barwin mistake was compounded by effectively cutting Okwara to make room: a good, useful, much younger and cheaper player.
If DG said "age doesn't bother me; look how I was successful with so-and-so", I'd pay attention.
But the impression is that he just has his nuggets and won't change his approach no matter what the contrary data is.
Declining Vinny Curry next up.
There was a post in the PC thread praising DG while sneering at Landon Collins' "fake humble" pose.
Ironic because if LC is prince of fake humble, DG is king.
"I'm like Archie Bunker; every man is my equal because I may learn from him."
BS. All the evidence is that DG has no inclination to learn from anybody, or from any inconvenient empirical information, because he is quite sure he knows it all, already.
Damn those facts...
Quote:
if you won the lottery and only won a million dollars.
When's the last time this team did anything close to winning a lottery?
Saquon.
That will be complete disaster for them.
They may have to take pennies on the dollar now b/c it will be even worse later.
Quote:
(1) What if Saquon Barkley turns into a Hall of Fame running back and Sam Darnold is another Drew Bledsoe? Too early to make that call. (And I was all for drafting Darnold last year, but right now, Barkley looks like the better player to me).
(2) Are the Cardinals willing to trade Rosen for a 2nd rounder? I keep seeing that posted here. Based on what evidence?
Agree that the jury is very much still out on the Darnold/Barkley choice. Could very well turn out that DG made a great decision.
No idea on #2 either, but I think it's something we should aggressively pursue.
My real worry is that we'll end up drafting in the 6-10 range in 2020 and either miss out on the QB's or have to give up a kings ransom for one.
6-10 range with probably 4 potential franchise QB's in the draft.
2 best defenders.
Damn those facts.
Your point that "he played" 10 snaps so I win is laughable. OK he played 10 snaps out of 70+. He wasn't out there when Giants did anything.
In the first half we had 7 total points.
Lawrence did not play in the 2nd half.
Vander played very little.
But you win? Sure.