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Annoying Point About Peppers in the Beckham Trade

GF1080 : 3/18/2019 6:50 pm
I don't understand why some people when discussing Peppers being in the trade counts him as another 1st round pick. Yes he was taken in the 1st but his overall play hasn't warranted that 1st round status yet. Furthermore since he's now in his 3rd year you are halfway done with his rookie contract and thus lose the value in regards to that to a regular 2019 1st round pick. If we traded for a player like Alvin Kamara taken in the 3rd we're not saying we got a 3rd round pick in return. It's just another means to justify what was at best an average return on Beckham. Discuss the player not when he was drafted so he only got 1st round pick not two.
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Peppers was a 1st round pick  
section125 : 3/18/2019 7:25 pm : link
so I consider that a 1st round pick. Gettleman insisted on Peppers or no deal for OBJ.
I think whatever side of the fence you are on will determine if you think he is still a 1st rounder. If you think it was a good deal, he is a 1st rounder, if you want to disparage Gettleman, Peppers is not a 1st round pick.
RE: GF1080  
Mr. Bungle : 3/18/2019 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14346192 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If Peppers isn't a good player here, then this trade looks far worse.

And if he is a good player here, the trade looks far better.
Peppers is a great athlete  
Jay on the Island : 3/18/2019 7:25 pm : link
He is young and still developing. Some act as if he was a throw in. Deone Buchanon had the best season of his career under Bettcher and I expect Peppers to break out this season. I would like to see the Giants add another safety, in the draft or free agency, to deploy more 3 safety sets. This would allow Peppers to play some LB in certain packages which would be very affective against teams like Philly with Ertz and Goedert.
...  
Mdgiantsfan : 3/18/2019 7:30 pm : link
every time I hear the reference to him being a first rounder so we should be happy from a value perspective, I immediate think about the fact that so was Erik Flowers lol. Hopefully Peppers gives us much better play!
You know that a lot of first-round picks don't amount to much, right?  
81_Great_Dane : 3/18/2019 7:37 pm : link
"First-round" only says where they're picked, not how good they are.

William Joseph, Ereck Flowers, Eli Apple, Justin Pugh, Jason Pierre-Paul, Hakeem Nicks, Odell Beckham and Saquon Barkley, all first-round picks by the Giants. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This is true for every team.

First-rounders have a lower bust rate than later rounds, but the bust rate is still significant.
'his overall play hasn't warranted that 1st round status'...  
Torrag : 3/18/2019 7:44 pm : link
I disagree. If you follow the Draft you should know the pros of drafting Peppers was getting a great kid with a very strong athletic profile and work ethic. The con was figuring out his best position and coaching him up. It took Cleveland a little time(about halfway through his rookie season) to put him in the right spot. He's made steady progress since and had a very promising and statistically productive sophomore campaign. This is a player that was drafted 25th overall, not 5th. Some growing pains are reasonable to attach 'without voiding' his status as a 1st Rounder.

Consider yourself schooled.
I can think of something else about this trade...  
Brown_Hornet : 3/18/2019 7:50 pm : link
...that's more annoying~
RE: Peppers was a 1st round pick  
Enzo : 3/18/2019 7:51 pm : link
In comment 14346233 section125 said:
Quote:
so I consider that a 1st round pick.

some of these posts are frame-worthy.

I still haven't heard an answer...  
Amtoft : 3/18/2019 7:54 pm : link
who here would trade Peppers for a second rounder in next years draft? If you wouldn't then what would it take? Would you say ummm a 1st?
Peppers should be a great addition to Betchers defense  
George from PA : 3/18/2019 7:55 pm : link
They can secure his 5th year...so they have 3 years of control.

And discussing an overlook part of the trade....getting back our 4th and returning their 5th
RE: Hmmm really  
Hsilwek92 : 3/18/2019 8:14 pm : link
In comment 14346173 Amtoft said:
Quote:
What do you think Peppers would fetch in the open market? I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a first. Would you really trade him for a 2nd rounder or less? I mean look how much money safeties are getting now. How much do you think Peppers would have gotten on the open market at 23 and ascending. He is making what 1.5 mil while Collins is making what 15 mil a year? Of course he is worth a first rounder.


There is ZERO chance Peppers would’ve fetched a 1st round pick. Stop it. With the way he’s played, he’d be lucky to fetch a 4th.
?  
GiantGrit : 3/18/2019 8:15 pm : link
- After they stopped playing him 30 yards deep he played at an above average level
-23 years old
-virtually no cap hit
-under control for at least 2, possibly 3 years
-to my knowledge no injury history
-scheme fit

So what exactly is annoying about that?
RE: RE: Hmmm really  
GiantGrit : 3/18/2019 8:16 pm : link
In comment 14346322 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
In comment 14346173 Amtoft said:


Quote:


What do you think Peppers would fetch in the open market? I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a first. Would you really trade him for a 2nd rounder or less? I mean look how much money safeties are getting now. How much do you think Peppers would have gotten on the open market at 23 and ascending. He is making what 1.5 mil while Collins is making what 15 mil a year? Of course he is worth a first rounder.



There is ZERO chance Peppers would’ve fetched a 1st round pick. Stop it. With the way he’s played, he’d be lucky to fetch a 4th.


a 4th? laughably bad take.
RE: RE: Hmmm really  
Amtoft : 3/18/2019 8:16 pm : link
In comment 14346322 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
In comment 14346173 Amtoft said:


Quote:


What do you think Peppers would fetch in the open market? I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a first. Would you really trade him for a 2nd rounder or less? I mean look how much money safeties are getting now. How much do you think Peppers would have gotten on the open market at 23 and ascending. He is making what 1.5 mil while Collins is making what 15 mil a year? Of course he is worth a first rounder.



There is ZERO chance Peppers would’ve fetched a 1st round pick. Stop it. With the way he’s played, he’d be lucky to fetch a 4th.


AKA you have never seen him play then. He is a good young player who will only get better.
Weird how there were so many Jabrill Peppers experts  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/18/2019 8:17 pm : link
that just happen to be floating around BBI.
RE: RE: RE: Hmmm really  
Hsilwek92 : 3/18/2019 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14346326 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 14346322 Hsilwek92 said:


Quote:


In comment 14346173 Amtoft said:


Quote:


What do you think Peppers would fetch in the open market? I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a first. Would you really trade him for a 2nd rounder or less? I mean look how much money safeties are getting now. How much do you think Peppers would have gotten on the open market at 23 and ascending. He is making what 1.5 mil while Collins is making what 15 mil a year? Of course he is worth a first rounder.



There is ZERO chance Peppers would’ve fetched a 1st round pick. Stop it. With the way he’s played, he’d be lucky to fetch a 4th.



AKA you have never seen him play then. He is a good young player who will only get better.


Stop.

He’s been in he league for two years and has been mediocre at best. If you think some team would be stupid enough to give up a 1st round pick for him, I’d like what you’re smoking.
RE: RE: RE: Hmmm really  
Hsilwek92 : 3/18/2019 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14346325 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 14346322 Hsilwek92 said:


Quote:


In comment 14346173 Amtoft said:


Quote:


What do you think Peppers would fetch in the open market? I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a first. Would you really trade him for a 2nd rounder or less? I mean look how much money safeties are getting now. How much do you think Peppers would have gotten on the open market at 23 and ascending. He is making what 1.5 mil while Collins is making what 15 mil a year? Of course he is worth a first rounder.



There is ZERO chance Peppers would’ve fetched a 1st round pick. Stop it. With the way he’s played, he’d be lucky to fetch a 4th.



a 4th? laughably bad take.


I laugh at yours as well.
RE: Weird how there were so many Jabrill Peppers experts  
GiantGrit : 3/18/2019 8:22 pm : link
In comment 14346328 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
that just happen to be floating around BBI.


Weird how no one has a rebuttal to the points people keep mentioning about Jabrill aside from cheesy lines like "Jabrill Peppers experts"

What a crazy idea to research a player and how he was used before talking about him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Hmmm really  
Amtoft : 3/18/2019 8:23 pm : link
In comment 14346334 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
In comment 14346326 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 14346322 Hsilwek92 said:


Quote:


In comment 14346173 Amtoft said:


Quote:


What do you think Peppers would fetch in the open market? I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a first. Would you really trade him for a 2nd rounder or less? I mean look how much money safeties are getting now. How much do you think Peppers would have gotten on the open market at 23 and ascending. He is making what 1.5 mil while Collins is making what 15 mil a year? Of course he is worth a first rounder.



There is ZERO chance Peppers would’ve fetched a 1st round pick. Stop it. With the way he’s played, he’d be lucky to fetch a 4th.



AKA you have never seen him play then. He is a good young player who will only get better.



Stop.

He’s been in he league for two years and has been mediocre at best. If you think some team would be stupid enough to give up a 1st round pick for him, I’d like what you’re smoking.


So you would trade Peppers a 23 year old starting Safety who played very well last year making only 1.5 mil for a 4th rounder right now?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Hmmm really  
GiantGrit : 3/18/2019 8:23 pm : link
In comment 14346335 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
In comment 14346325 GiantGrit said:


Quote:


In comment 14346322 Hsilwek92 said:


Quote:


In comment 14346173 Amtoft said:


Quote:


What do you think Peppers would fetch in the open market? I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a first. Would you really trade him for a 2nd rounder or less? I mean look how much money safeties are getting now. How much do you think Peppers would have gotten on the open market at 23 and ascending. He is making what 1.5 mil while Collins is making what 15 mil a year? Of course he is worth a first rounder.



There is ZERO chance Peppers would’ve fetched a 1st round pick. Stop it. With the way he’s played, he’d be lucky to fetch a 4th.



a 4th? laughably bad take.



I laugh at yours as well.


Tell us why he is mediocre.
If you have an opinion on a player transaction  
Cool Down : 3/18/2019 8:31 pm : link
why not offer your opinion when the subject is hot instead of days later (question mark)
RE: RE: The premise of this thread...  
Mike in Boston : 3/18/2019 8:38 pm : link
In comment 14346187 GF1080 said:
Quote:
In comment 14346177 EricJ said:


Quote:


reminds me of this.. watch - ( New Window )



LOL love that movie! Anyway I'm not even bashing Peppers but the easy way to justify the trade by saying a player taken in the 1st round is equal to an upcoming 1st round pick. It just screams lazy argument to me and an agenda being pushed.


On the other hand, Peppril is at least a competent player. Something like 1/3 of first rounders are busts. People like to think a first rounder is a sure bet. They aren't.

That said, you just don't trade a HOF player in his prime; you can't get adequate value unless you are getting another HOF player in his prime. A good coach would be able to deal with the distractions. Can you imagine Parcells trading LT because of his issues?
Peppers  
djm : 3/18/2019 8:39 pm : link
Might not be worth a first but it’s close enough probably and combined with the 1st + 3rd it’s enough.
I mean I do find it funny  
Leg of Theismann : 3/18/2019 8:47 pm : link
so many on this board has already completely written off Engram as a bust simply because he had a down year last year, even though he both injured his knee early in the season and got a concussion. I guess they don't care about the fact he showed promise in 2017 and had one of the better rookie seasons for a TE of all time, it's all about "what have you done for me lately"... meanwhile just because Peppers hasn't made the pro bowl yet you act like we already know he didn't deserve a 1st round grade.

Imagine if we had to decide whether Eli was worth a 1st rd pick or not the Spring after his 2nd season.
RE: 'his overall play hasn't warranted that 1st round status'...  
GF1080 : 3/18/2019 8:52 pm : link
In comment 14346273 Torrag said:
Quote:
I disagree. If you follow the Draft you should know the pros of drafting Peppers was getting a great kid with a very strong athletic profile and work ethic. The con was figuring out his best position and coaching him up. It took Cleveland a little time(about halfway through his rookie season) to put him in the right spot. He's made steady progress since and had a very promising and statistically productive sophomore campaign. This is a player that was drafted 25th overall, not 5th. Some growing pains are reasonable to attach 'without voiding' his status as a 1st Rounder.

Consider yourself schooled.


I've followed Peppers since he was a middle school player and he's always been more athlete than football player. Consider yourself schooled LOL and I'm still glad we got him but for Gettleman to use the point he was a 1st round pick is demeaning to say it's 2 1st rounders. He's been average at best in the NFL with room to improve.
Peppers stats:  
Doomster : 3/18/2019 9:04 pm : link
29 games started

2 int's

7 passes defended

1 sack

136 total/96 solo tackles
RE: RE: RE: The premise of this thread...  
LauderdaleMatty : 3/18/2019 9:14 pm : link
In comment 14346369 Mike in Boston said:
Quote:
In comment 14346187 GF1080 said:


Quote:


In comment 14346177 EricJ said:


Quote:


reminds me of this.. watch - ( New Window )



LOL love that movie! Anyway I'm not even bashing Peppers but the easy way to justify the trade by saying a player taken in the 1st round is equal to an upcoming 1st round pick. It just screams lazy argument to me and an agenda being pushed.



On the other hand, Peppril is at least a competent player. Something like 1/3 of first rounders are busts. People like to think a first rounder is a sure bet. They aren't.

That said, you just don't trade a HOF player in his prime; you can't get adequate value unless you are getting another HOF player in his prime. A good coach would be able to deal with the distractions. Can you imagine Parcells trading LT because of his issues?


OBJ may be a an insanely talented player but hes not shit compared to LT. He quit on the team last year LT played on a broke leg and OBJ missed 4 games for a thigh bruise.

LT changed football. OBJ changed hair styles.
RE: He was a fist round pick  
Mike from Ohio : 3/18/2019 9:44 pm : link
In comment 14346228 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
What so hard to understand?
DG really likes him. Some times it takes a player a couple of years to figure things out.

Waaaa Waaaa Waaaa



Eli Apple was also a first round pick. When the Giants traded him nobody seemed stumped as to why the Giants would trade a first round pick for a fourth and a seventh. The reason for that is because his value is determined by what he has done on the field, not when he was drafted. Same thing applies to Peppers.
RE: If you have an opinion on a player transaction  
GF1080 : 3/18/2019 9:49 pm : link
In comment 14346357 Cool Down said:
Quote:
why not offer your opinion when the subject is hot instead of days later (question mark)


It's called giving something thought.
Peppers..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/18/2019 10:19 pm : link
has "been mediocre at best"??

How does stuff like this get posted?

He's a starting safety who has been solid in his two years. He's started 29 out of 32 possible games and is much like other first round safeties taken, including Kenny Phillips or Landon Collins.

And people also forget that the Giants reportedly had the Browns include Peppers as the player instead of Duke Johnson or Oghbah.
3 for 1 trade.  
kdog77 : 3/18/2019 10:32 pm : link
Giants traded OBJ for 3 players. Calling Jabrill Peppers a 1st rounders is a misnomer. Corey Coleman was a 1st rounder too and no one on BBI would value him as such if we traded him. Hopefully 2 of 3 will be starters and all will contribute.
Peppers probably fetches a 2nd rounder on the open market.  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/18/2019 11:10 pm : link
That is the way to look at this trade.
who knows.? You can’t mention LT in same breadth as so many other 1st  
plato : 3/19/2019 12:03 am : link
round stars because LT was not only a generational player who changed the game, but he had amazing durability. that’s a hard bar to measure up to. Odell has great skills but he fails the LT bar in many ways. SB has a chance, but it will take years to see how he plays out.

OBJ has great physical talents, he’ll have to demonstrate that he can keep them on the field, and that he has some locker room wisdom as well, to even be considered a great player. He’s a long way from that right now.
he's a player  
Platos : 3/19/2019 12:06 am : link
jamal adams went 6th in that draft. malik hooker went before him to the colts too.

i think Peppers turns heads this year. back in his home state. he was a great player at michigan.
We need to draft another safety  
Paulie Walnuts : 3/19/2019 12:15 am : link
Named Sausage
RE: RE: RE: RE: Hmmm really  
Toth029 : 3/19/2019 6:28 am : link
In comment 14346334 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
In comment 14346326 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 14346322 Hsilwek92 said:


Quote:


In comment 14346173 Amtoft said:


Quote:


What do you think Peppers would fetch in the open market? I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a first. Would you really trade him for a 2nd rounder or less? I mean look how much money safeties are getting now. How much do you think Peppers would have gotten on the open market at 23 and ascending. He is making what 1.5 mil while Collins is making what 15 mil a year? Of course he is worth a first rounder.



There is ZERO chance Peppers would’ve fetched a 1st round pick. Stop it. With the way he’s played, he’d be lucky to fetch a 4th.



AKA you have never seen him play then. He is a good young player who will only get better.



Stop.

He’s been in he league for two years and has been mediocre at best. If you think some team would be stupid enough to give up a 1st round pick for him, I’d like what you’re smoking.


So, accorrding to you, he would fetch the same compensation what the NFL felt Landon Collins was worth.

Now he's paid an enormous amount of money and he isn't the Giants problem.
I’m convinced the only way people would like the trade  
Shecky : 3/19/2019 7:00 am : link
Is if they received “two firsts” no matter where or when the picks are.

If Giants traded from 17–> 32. Trade chart says mid second rounder would be the cost. Or a next years first. Would that satisfy the “two firsts” crowd?
Interesting  
dorgan : 3/19/2019 7:24 am : link
that someone is annoyed because a former first round pick is referred to as a former first round pick.

RE: Interesting  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2019 7:34 am : link
In comment 14346712 dorgan said:
Quote:
that someone is annoyed because a former first round pick is referred to as a former first round pick.


He probably meant it in the way that Ereck Flowers is a first round pick but his ability means he really isn't.
It really boils down to this....  
dep026 : 3/19/2019 7:40 am : link
If peppers was signed as a 23 year old free agent for 3 years at a 2.2 million cap hit, many pundits and many BBI posters would consider if the greatest ever signed.

But since he was linked in the Beckham trade.... he’s not very good. It’s really this simple.
If Peppers wasnt a Brown or a Giant..  
90.Cal : 3/19/2019 7:47 am : link
And he could just enter into this draft, as he is today, not the prospect Jabrill, but the Jabrill with 2 years NFL experience.... would he be a first round pick...? Would he be a top 15 pick is probably the better question...
Who cares, the real question is does he make the Giants better?  
since1925 : 3/19/2019 8:49 am : link
Yes, he does. IMHO, he is flat but better safety than Collins. And he does so many other things on a football field, returning, in the secondary and at LB, that he solves multiple problems on defense and specials.
Here s how you justify the trade  
joeinpa : 3/19/2019 9:07 am : link
They got rid of an oft injured diva who was always about me, me.me, and in return got 3 players two of whom will almost certainly be starters.

The expectations of what Beckham was worth prior to the trade were ridiculous at best , but mostly passive aggressive statements setting up the narrative of “what a horrible deal it was”, should a trade happen
Not sure why this thread is getting such backlash  
Mike in Long Beach : 3/19/2019 9:11 am : link
It's 100% correct, particularly this part:

Quote:
Furthermore since he's now in his 3rd year you are halfway done with his rookie contract and thus lose the value in regards to that to a regular 2019 1st round pick.
He played like a first rounder  
KWALL2 : 3/19/2019 10:17 am : link
Last year. If he was on the open market the demand would be huge for him right now. He’s an excellent player already and the arrow is pointing up.
The contract trade off is true.  
KWALL2 : 3/19/2019 10:18 am : link
We lose 2 years of a rookie deal but we have a proven guy on an NFL field and not a rookie and the risk that comes with it (even first rounders).
RE: Peppers probably fetches a 2nd rounder on the open market.  
Amtoft : 3/19/2019 10:59 am : link
In comment 14346603 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
That is the way to look at this trade.


So I ask you... Would you trade Peppers for a 2nd rounder next year? We already know the 4th rounder guy won't come back and respond because he was ridiculous. I wouldn't trade a 23 year old starting safety making 1.5 mil a year who is trending up and looking to go from good to very good.
It seems after  
Alex_Webster : 3/19/2019 11:40 am : link
Rookie deal 20 million is benchmark. Dalton being exception at 16 million average.
The rumors were that the Giants were offered a 3rd or 4th  
Mike in NJ : 3/19/2019 11:59 am : link
for half a season of Landon Collins at the deadline. Peppers play last year was better than what Collins showed each of the last 2 years, he is younger, and comes much cheaper.

I don't think I would go as far as to say that he would fetch a 1st in a trade, but taking all of those factors into account I think a 2nd seems about right.
RE: Interesting  
Chris in Philly : 3/19/2019 12:04 pm : link
In comment 14346712 dorgan said:
Quote:
that someone is annoyed because a former first round pick is referred to as a former first round pick.


I think it people just said former first round pick, there wouldn't be an issue. Saying it's the same as a first round pick is the issue, because there are considerations of performance, time of service, etc.

If the sun went dark and we traded for Erik Flowers and Eli Apple, would anyone be taken seriously if it was characterized as "The Giants basically two two extra first round picks"? Of course not. That's the kind of thing Randy would say! Repkit?
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