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How would you feel if Daniel Jones was picked @17?

mrvax : 3/18/2019 8:57 pm
I never saw him play. I did see his highlights and read a scouting report or 2. Is he improving each year? Can he be compared to Eli when just coming out?

He looks pretty good to me but I'd like to get the scoop from others. What is there not to like about him?

The reason I mentioned pick #17 is because if the Giants really like him, I don't think they'd just hope he drops so far...

Walterfootball: Daniel Jones Scouting Report - ( New Window )
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It's a fine line.....  
Doomster : 3/18/2019 10:34 pm : link
I don't think there will be a QB at 6......don't want a project at 17.....need 2-4 viable starters from this draft....

The offshoot is, if this this team somehow improves, we will not have a low draft pick next year....it's a double edged sword.....
Boylehart likes him  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/18/2019 10:40 pm : link
Not as much as the other two, but close. He has him ranked at 1.46 (1st round) and slightly behind both Haskins and Murray.

"Daniel Jones has franchise quarterback ďpotentialĒ. He has the size, athleticism, arm strength, accuracy along with the ability to throw from the pocket that you look for in a potential franchise quarterback. Daniel has excellent maturity in all facets of his game and because he is so respected by his teammates he has excellent leadership skills to make the players around him better. He can throw on the move with accuracy and has the ability to change his release point without losing any accuracy or velocity...."
Review - ( New Window )
RE: .  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/18/2019 10:46 pm : link
In comment 14346514 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I also felt like the ball really kind of died on him when I watched him - I didn't see a good deep ball.


Bingo. I wouldn't be happy at all with them drafting him at #17. As we saw with Keenum, I don't think it's necessary to have the strongest arm in Shurmur's offense. But in order to play in this stadium and to win a 'Ship, a QB is going to have to make a Manning to Manningham throw at some point. I just don't think Jones can do that.
Simple:  
santacruzom : 3/18/2019 10:59 pm : link
Unsurprised.
So because he went to Dave Browns college  
O Butter Giants 2019 : 3/18/2019 11:07 pm : link
... he's "bad"?
bad...  
.McL. : 3/18/2019 11:15 pm : link
Very BAAAAAD....
RE: If NYG has a 1st round grade on Jones  
Mike in NJ : 3/18/2019 11:15 pm : link
In comment 14346522 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
They are picking him at 6, not 17.


I would actually be more comfortable with the pick if they took him at 6 than if they took him at 17. Taking him at 6 shows conviction, that they view him as a franchise QB and that they donít want to risk losing him by waiting.

If you view a guy that way you jump at the chance to take him, you donít sit back and wait hoping heíll be there later.
RE: RE: If NYG has a 1st round grade on Jones  
mrvax : 3/18/2019 11:19 pm : link
In comment 14346607 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:

I would actually be more comfortable with the pick if they took him at 6 than if they took him at 17. Taking him at 6 shows conviction, that they view him as a franchise QB and that they donít want to risk losing him by waiting.

If you view a guy that way you jump at the chance to take him, you donít sit back and wait hoping heíll be there later.


I think you're right, Mike. At #6 it certainly would show conviction.

He would become my new favorite...  
Brown_Hornet : 3/18/2019 11:32 pm : link
.QB?
RE: I like the guy alot  
Danny80 : 3/18/2019 11:46 pm : link
In comment 14346500 mavric said:
Quote:
and no matter what comparisons are made, he is his own person and no two people are alike. He would not be the second coming of (insert your favorite QB to hate or failed QB here).

He is known as a strong (can throw a bomb better than any QB in this class), is an accurate thrower with dexterity for the short throws, a very high character guy, and extremely cerebral (Duke isn't exactly Alabama on the academic level...sorry Bama fans). Of course he's tall (6'5") and can see over the front line and is the classic pocket QB, but with much more mobility to move around than Eli. I see him as being spry on his feet and can actually show quickness to elude sacks and blitzes.

I fully believe whatever team gets him will have a franchise QB by 2020/21.

He's NOT the horrible QB some people on this board are trying to make him out to be. I will be very pleased if he becomes the QB being groomed to take Eli's spot one day.


I've watched nearly every Duke football game the last two years (at least when they've been on tv). I agree with most of what you said. I'm not sure I'd qualify him as a "quick" or sudden athlete, but he's big, strong and pretty fast and knows how to run with the ball. He can throw a pretty deep ball too. I just have a hard time seeing him in the same target range as a Josh Rosen (if he could be had for a second rounder or even a #17 pick). I didn't typically see the velocity on this throws that I think you'd ideally like to see, but he definitely has a lot of good pieces. He is not Dave Brown (then again, Dave Brown wasn't the Dave Brown we know now, until he was...).

All in all, I think he's a quality 2nd round pick, but I'm very much in line with the poster below who pointed out that QB draft picks from essentially outside the top 10 through the second round rarely pan out into long time starters, let alone franchise QBs. That's the one thing Gettleman has said that I agree with. If you want a QB, you gotta get him in the first round, and you gotta do it at the top of the first round to maximize your changes. History just bears that out too often. There of course are exceptions, but who wants to bank this team's future on Gettleman picking the next Tom Brady or the next Russell Wilson or even Jimmy G? Especially not when the Giants will have had the #2 pick and the #6 pick the last two years. I'm not sure that a QB is worth it at #6 this year, but last year...and maybe a wish and a prayer at next year....
RE: RE: I like the guy alot  
Danny80 : 3/18/2019 11:48 pm : link
In comment 14346623 Danny80 said:
Quote:
In comment 14346500 mavric said:


Quote:


and no matter what comparisons are made, he is his own person and no two people are alike. He would not be the second coming of (insert your favorite QB to hate or failed QB here).

He is known as a strong (can throw a bomb better than any QB in this class), is an accurate thrower with dexterity for the short throws, a very high character guy, and extremely cerebral (Duke isn't exactly Alabama on the academic level...sorry Bama fans). Of course he's tall (6'5") and can see over the front line and is the classic pocket QB, but with much more mobility to move around than Eli. I see him as being spry on his feet and can actually show quickness to elude sacks and blitzes.

I fully believe whatever team gets him will have a franchise QB by 2020/21.

He's NOT the horrible QB some people on this board are trying to make him out to be. I will be very pleased if he becomes the QB being groomed to take Eli's spot one day.



I've watched nearly every Duke football game the last two years (at least when they've been on tv). I agree with most of what you said. I'm not sure I'd qualify him as a "quick" or sudden athlete, but he's big, strong and pretty fast and knows how to run with the ball. He can throw a pretty deep ball too. I just have a hard time seeing him in the same target range as a Josh Rosen (if he could be had for a second rounder or even a #17 pick). I didn't typically see the velocity on this throws that I think you'd ideally like to see, but he definitely has a lot of good pieces. He is not Dave Brown (then again, Dave Brown wasn't the Dave Brown we know now, until he was...).

All in all, I think he's a quality 2nd round pick, but I'm very much in line with the poster below who pointed out that QB draft picks from essentially outside the top 10 through the second round rarely pan out into long time starters, let alone franchise QBs. That's the one thing Gettleman has said that I agree with. If you want a QB, you gotta get him in the first round, and you gotta do it at the top of the first round to maximize your changes. History just bears that out too often. There of course are exceptions, but who wants to bank this team's future on Gettleman picking the next Tom Brady or the next Russell Wilson or even Jimmy G? Especially not when the Giants will have had the #2 pick and the #6 pick the last two years. I'm not sure that a QB is worth it at #6 this year, but last year...and maybe a wish and a prayer at next year....


Oh yeah, and as the scouting report said, his delivery isn't the quickest.
Not bad  
giantsFC : 3/19/2019 12:07 am : link
As it wouldnít effect getting to draft Tua next year if they have a chance, or, even better, Trevor Lawrence the filing year, and if he were to pan out, then EVEN BETTER.
Not interested  
UberAlias : 3/19/2019 12:11 am : link
Much rather move up for Lock.
I am not a fan of Daniel Jones, but if he was the pick....  
Big_Pete : 3/19/2019 12:47 am : link
I would be willing to wait and see how it turns out.

Gettleman would only pull the trigger if he thought that Daniel Jones is the guy. If that is the case, I am willing to see how things unfold. They are the experts in this (despite what draft gurus think) and as always there are a lot of factors in building a roster.

We have to remember that Shurmur and Shula are very experienced with developing QBs and they know what Shurmur wants for his offence going forward.

NYG will have plenty of inside sources, particularly with Cutliffe but also both Eli and Peyton have worked with him.

Gettleman, Shurmur and Shula will have an excellent idea of what Jones brings to the table.


One factor that needs to be considered is that our future QB, whoever it is, has to deal with the NY media frenzy.

I personally am keen to go defence with both first round picks, but if it is a choice between Haskins at #6 or Jones at #17 and a stud pass rusher at 6, I can see the a case for the latter.
First three picks in the trenches...  
Bluesbreaker : 3/19/2019 2:06 am : link
Get an edge Rusher like Allen or Ferrell
take a RT Dilliard at 17
Go back to Defense at #37 unless a center or another
DE pass rusher . The offensive line will be 100% improved
then look for a WR in the 3rd round or another CB .
I lean towards he is a backup QB  
giantstock : 3/19/2019 4:01 am : link
Everything about him looks slow.
I wouldnt like it but Iíd be on board and hope  
Brown Recluse : 3/19/2019 5:52 am : link
heís better than I think he is
Would  
DG_89 : 3/19/2019 6:11 am : link
prefer all defense or defender at 6 and WR/OT at 17, but I will take a step back and trust the guys paid to do this for a living. If the kid becomes a Giant he has my support
How does he compare to Eli coming out  
BillT : 3/19/2019 6:21 am : link
When Eli was the consensus number one pick coming out.
RE: I would feel sick  
Beer Man : 3/19/2019 6:52 am : link
In comment 14346519 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
Given the tremendous talent that is available at that point on both of the lines and at some of the other ball skill positions.

I usually do a top 100 players on my own for fun every year. Right now I donít have a single QB in the top 30. Haskins and Lock are probably in the 30-50 range.

Jones I have right now in the late third round area. He has some potential but he is not a top QB prospect. Iíd be fine taking him with the 3rd rounder we got from the Browns. But the first rounder would be a really dumb and questionable valuation and roster and draft management blunder.
+1
RE: He doesn't throw the deep ball very well  
Beer Man : 3/19/2019 6:54 am : link
In comment 14346493 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
from what I've seen. He seems mobile for a guy his size though.
Chris Simms said something similar. Says Jones does not turn into his throws.
Not good  
The_Boss : 3/19/2019 7:26 am : link
-
This 'mobile' crap is getting out of hand....  
nzyme : 3/19/2019 7:41 am : link
So now if the QB doesn't throw the deep ball it's OK because he's mobile? The first grade on EVERY QB should be "He can make every throw on the field!". If he can move his feet around in a 10 yard box then I'm good with his mobility.
If you believe in the QB  
ij_reilly : 3/19/2019 7:49 am : link
You take him at 6, not 17.

I would be shocked if the Giants take any QB at 17.
I watched 3 games last year when the hype was building  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/19/2019 8:00 am : link
IMO, the deep ball is his strong suit. Jones was dropping dimes into his WR's arms while they were running full on, really nice throws. His WRs dropped most of these balls.

He has pretty good straight line speed, he's not quick twitch, but he does a good job climbing the pocket while looking downfield.

He did miss some intermediate throws, that's probably his biggest call out. I think I would question his decision making and accuracy on the intermediate levels.

All in all, I like him! I think if he played for a Ohio State or Clemson, he'd likely be a 1st rd choice for sure. Because of the talent level at Duke, it masked some of his game for better or worse. I would not go for him at 17, I would target him at #37. But I would not throw the remote at 17.
Watch his snaps vs Clemson and that NFL loaded defense  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/19/2019 8:18 am : link
He surveys the field, not a 1 read guy.

You can also see him manipulate the safeties with his head.

How many passes are dropped?

If he had Ohio State's or Clemson's WRs, what do some of these passes look like?

Lots of passes batted.

His accuracy on the move or when harrassed is not good.

Overall though, this comes out positive to me.
Jones vs Clemson 2018 - ( New Window )
He's a Project with Potential  
upnyg : 3/19/2019 8:18 am : link
I've watched 3 full games this past year. In some games he looks very good in spurts. He is a "gamer" and needs to protect himself in the run better.

He looks good a short to intermediate passes.

Its difficult to tell his arm strength in the games I saw, that's where he is knocked for needing improvement.

Earlier I thought he was a 1st rounder, not sure where he lands. He could benefit by sitting as year on the bench.
I think DG has his guy  
Dankbeerman : 3/19/2019 8:21 am : link
and we are going to take someone earlier then people think he should go.

Not sure if getting the 2nd first was required for the qb or not, but my thinking was since he wanted #2 from San Fran, he was try to get a top edge guy Bosa/Allen first and then be able to take his guy at 6.

Feel he needs a 1st round edge guy but there is a lot and only 2 top level which we cant get at 6. the drop off between the 3rd guy at 6 or whoever is avaiable at 17 isnt that great.

even if murray doesnt go 1 he is gone before we can get him. that cant be his plan. and someone is coming up for haskins and will think they neded to get in front of us for him.

unless allen drops or nobody comes up for haskins and we drop back so (den,cincy, or mia) can take Haskins, we probably take Lock or Jones 6.
RE: 'They are picking him at 6, not 17'...  
gmenatlarge : 3/19/2019 8:26 am : link
In comment 14346541 Torrag said:
Quote:
/sigh that makes no sense. The benefit of having two 2nd Rounders is taking players in the slot they belong. As happened with Johnny Manziel @ #22. Why because they were able to Draft Justin Gilbert #8 and he was a much better football player as was proven out by their respective careers. Same results applied when Brady Quinn was his teams second pick in the 2007 Draft. Why? Because they were able to get Joe freaking Thomas #3.

There are very few absolutes in the Draft. Probably the only one I can come up with is if you have the #1 pick and there is a franchise QB available you take him if you don't have one or trade it for a haul.


What if you have the second pick....?
How feel?  
micky : 3/19/2019 8:28 am : link
Like lol my ass off
Being at the game..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/19/2019 8:31 am : link
and seeing the spread of the field he did not look good vs. Clemson:

Quote:
Watch his snaps vs Clemson and that NFL loaded defense
Jim in Forest Hills : 8:18 am : link : reply
He surveys the field, not a 1 read guy.

You can also see him manipulate the safeties with his head.

How many passes are dropped?

If he had Ohio State's or Clemson's WRs, what do some of these passes look like?

Lots of passes batted.

His accuracy on the move or when harrassed is not good.


My Dad and I both commented on how he missed looking in the direction of receivers who had gotten open, and how his velocity looked poor. Granted, he was going up against Lawrence and the differences in the two in warmups was striking, but I was excited to see Jones and he disappointed.

I also can't underestimate how bad he looked vs. Wake Forest. Blown out 59-7 at home. Under 50% completion rate and under 150 yards passing
RE: Being at the game..  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/19/2019 8:38 am : link
In comment 14346766 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
and seeing the spread of the field he did not look good vs. Clemson:



Quote:




My Dad and I both commented on how he missed looking in the direction of receivers who had gotten open, and how his velocity looked poor. Granted, he was going up against Lawrence and the differences in the two in warmups was striking, but I was excited to see Jones and he disappointed.

I also can't underestimate how bad he looked vs. Wake Forest. Blown out 59-7 at home. Under 50% completion rate and under 150 yards passing


Obviously I can't see who was open on youtube, so I will take your word for it. To me, it looks like he tries to hit his hot reads under duress. When he has time, his decision making looks ok. I will watch the WF cutups.
If the Giants donít find a serviceable Free agent RT, they are going  
Ivan15 : 3/19/2019 8:38 am : link
to need #6, 17, and 37 to fill all their needs.

Jones fits the prototype. Murray and Haskins donít. Last year, 3 of 4 QBs fit the prototype, but the only one successful so far is the one who didnít fit.

If it works out, I would rather take a chance on Rosen with 37 and a 4th round pick than Jones at 17.
I don't see how you could be close to sold on Jones  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2019 8:40 am : link
anywhere in Rd 1 or 2, and considering the apparent depth of this draft, in round 3 either.
RE: I don't see how you could be close to sold on Jones  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/19/2019 8:44 am : link
In comment 14346772 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
anywhere in Rd 1 or 2, and considering the apparent depth of this draft, in round 3 either.


Why? He's a good player. Runs a pro style offense. Led a talent poor team to a winning record and a bowl win. Good size, accurate. Lots to like there.
RE: RE: I don't see how you could be close to sold on Jones  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2019 8:54 am : link
In comment 14346778 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
In comment 14346772 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


anywhere in Rd 1 or 2, and considering the apparent depth of this draft, in round 3 either.



Why? He's a good player. Runs a pro style offense. Led a talent poor team to a winning record and a bowl win. Good size, accurate. Lots to like there.


The competition he played, mainly. His counting stats are juiced up with big games against Pitt, Georgia Tech, and other equally talent-poor teams. and the bowl game win was against Temple playing with a replacement head coach. When you look at the games he played against significant competition, he was made to be a real nonfactor.
RE: Watch his snaps vs Clemson and that NFL loaded defense  
bw in dc : 3/19/2019 8:56 am : link
In comment 14346749 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
He surveys the field, not a 1 read guy.

You can also see him manipulate the safeties with his head.

How many passes are dropped?

If he had Ohio State's or Clemson's WRs, what do some of these passes look like?

Lots of passes batted.

His accuracy on the move or when harrassed is not good.

Overall though, this comes out positive to me. Jones vs Clemson 2018 - ( New Window )


I sort of tossed this game because of the talent disparity between Duke and Clemson. But I didnít think Jones looked inspiring at all. He moved okay to keep some plays alive, but thought he got rattled too easily. Overall, I struggle to find anything on the plus side about his game other than movement. I struggle to give him anything other than a third round projection.

You want to watch a QB have a sneaky good game against Clemson with inferior talent? Watch Finleyís game. Showed great poise, showed really good movement in and out of the pocket, made two throws that were likely long TDs or big gains but the receiver dropped the ball, and kept competing despite the big score deficit. Now, he was off on a few outs, but I think that was more timing and less about arm skill...
NFL history is filled with guys like Jones. They are mediocre.  
Ivan15 : 3/19/2019 8:59 am : link
Eli Manning would be in that group 90% of the time. It is the 10% of brilliance that you are looking for. Ernie saw it in Eliís college record.

Jones hasnít shown IT. Not Lock either. None of these potential QBs have shown IT either, although Murray and/or Haskins may not have played enough games. So if you donít love one of the choices, you canít pick one.
RE: NFL history is filled with guys like Jones. They are mediocre.  
bw in dc : 3/19/2019 9:06 am : link
In comment 14346803 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Eli Manning would be in that group 90% of the time. It is the 10% of brilliance that you are looking for. Ernie saw it in Eliís college record.

Jones hasnít shown IT. Not Lock either. None of these potential QBs have shown IT either, although Murray and/or Haskins may not have played enough games. So if you donít love one of the choices, you canít pick one.


I get the ďitĒ thing, but Lock has a plus-NFL arm though. I saw a stat, and keep me honest if I misrepresent it, that Lock would have had a 70% completion rate if his receivers didnít drop catchable balls. So his accuracy might me underrated too.

I actually..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/19/2019 9:07 am : link
was thinking of a different QB who looked pretty good against clemson:

Quote:
You want to watch a QB have a sneaky good game against Clemson with inferior talent? Watch Finleyís game.


Eric Dungey played very well. He has a lot of injury concerns, but Dungey took what the Clemson D was giving him on single coverage and ran or scrambled to make positive plays when his protection broke down.

I wouldn't advocate drafting Dungey, but seeing him play and then Jones play, Jones looked comparatively really poor.

I'm actually struggling to see what people are high on him for. I saw Will Grier play live a couple of times, and he looked much better too, and I wouldn't even advocate drafting him.
I think they're taking him @ 17  
DavidinBMNY : 3/19/2019 9:15 am : link
If he is there.

With either Edge or OT at #6.

He seems to be what they want in a QB. Regardless of what some of the Draft Guru's think of him.
RE: I think they're taking him @ 17  
Greg from LI : 3/19/2019 9:17 am : link
In comment 14346851 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
He seems to be what they want in a QB.


A mediocre rag-arm is what they want? Well, I guess they DID draft Lauletta.....
Jones  
Jerry from Maine : 3/19/2019 9:45 am : link
Will be there in the 2nd round... way too much DL and OL talent this year.
RE: Iím thinking we are going  
BigBlueJuice : 3/19/2019 9:51 am : link
I dont think giants reach that far for a player who wont start this year. Makes more sense at 17 or 2nd round.

In comment 14346421 big_blue said:
Quote:
Drew Lock @ 6 so I donít think that would be good.
One thing I struggle with  
Alex_Webster : 3/19/2019 10:15 am : link
If a guy is your guy, and you think he is long term. at the end of the day does it matter where you draft him. Not discounting positional draft positions. Some people closed to draft stretch pics with these guidelines. JPP is just one of many that when he was drafted he was seen as drafted way too early. kinda worked out less 3 fingers.
He checks a lot of the boxes  
Now Mike in MD : 3/19/2019 1:05 pm : link
the Giants have indicated they look for in a QB. He's got the size the Giants like. He moves well in the pocket as Shurmur indicated he wants. I've heard conflicting things re his arm. I've heard many people say he has plenty of arm strength to make all the throws. Is he Lock? No but neither is Eli.

Cooley (I'm sorry I keep going to him) that he felt liek Jones did more with less than any QB in this draft, Mentioned how his OL have him zero protection but he'd stand tall in the pocket and still make throws with guys hanging on him.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Giants licked him
RE: He checks a lot of the boxes  
Carson53 : 3/19/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14347533 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
the Giants have indicated they look for in a QB. He's got the size the Giants like. He moves well in the pocket as Shurmur indicated he wants. I've heard conflicting things re his arm. I've heard many people say he has plenty of arm strength to make all the throws. Is he Lock? No but neither is Eli.

Cooley (I'm sorry I keep going to him) that he felt liek Jones did more with less than any QB in this draft, Mentioned how his OL have him zero protection but he'd stand tall in the pocket and still make throws with guys hanging on him.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Giants licked him
.

He actually runs well, seen him a few games. I would say
he is similar to Josh Allen last year in that regard.
He doesn't have the bazooka arm like Josh Allen, but
he is very athletic. I would prefer him in Round 2,
if he is still around. I would like him over Haskins or Lock, in the long term.


RE: He checks a lot of the boxes  
santacruzom : 3/19/2019 2:09 pm : link
In comment 14347533 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Giants licked him


Now that would surprise me.
RE: RE: He checks a lot of the boxes  
upnyg : 3/19/2019 9:45 pm : link
In comment 14347686 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 14347533 Now Mike in MD said:


Quote:



Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Giants licked him



Now that would surprise me.


He needs a new keyboard (I hope)
RE: RE: NFL history is filled with guys like Jones. They are mediocre.  
djm : 3/19/2019 10:12 pm : link
In comment 14346826 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14346803 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


Eli Manning would be in that group 90% of the time. It is the 10% of brilliance that you are looking for. Ernie saw it in Eliís college record.

Jones hasnít shown IT. Not Lock either. None of these potential QBs have shown IT either, although Murray and/or Haskins may not have played enough games. So if you donít love one of the choices, you canít pick one.



I get the ďitĒ thing, but Lock has a plus-NFL arm though. I saw a stat, and keep me honest if I misrepresent it, that Lock would have had a 70% completion rate if his receivers didnít drop catchable balls. So his accuracy might me underrated too.


Not to mention Murrayís insane skill set.
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