I never saw him play. I did see his highlights and read a scouting report or 2. Is he improving each year? Can he be compared to Eli when just coming out?
He looks pretty good to me but I'd like to get the scoop from others. What is there not to like about him?
The reason I mentioned pick #17 is because if the Giants really like him, I don't think they'd just hope he drops so far...
Walterfootball: Daniel Jones Scouting Report - (
New Window )
Can you be specific?
Can you be specific?
I feel the same. I wasn't pissed off that we took Barkley because I know they know more about QBs than I do.
Wish some CFB guys would weigh in.
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at all at any draft spot....
Can you be specific?
Yes, I do not want him to be drafted by the Giants with any draft pick.
Prefer Lock....
Those same people would have passed on Saquon because of Ki-Jana Carter. 🙄
He screams "average QB" to me.
I haven't seen enough of him to go crazy one way or another, but that's been my general impression based on what I've seen.
It seems like he does a lot of things well enough... but he's not really "great" anywhere and never really seems to pop off the screen or make plays you really notice.
I kind of feel like they should have an AT&T commercial for Jones... "Just OK is not OK"
If someone can sell me on the guy, I'm all ears... but so far I've struggled to get much further than lukewarm.
He screams "average QB" to me.
I haven't seen enough of him to go crazy one way or another, but that's been my general impression based on what I've seen.
It seems like he does a lot of things well enough... but he's not really "great" anywhere and never really seems to pop off the screen or make plays you really notice.
I kind of feel like they should have an AT&T commercial for Jones... "Just OK is not OK"
If someone can sell me on the guy, I'm all ears... but so far I've struggled to get much further than lukewarm.
He'd be a decent get in the 4th round, IMO. EVEN at 95. But not 37.. There will be studs on the board at 37 still.
I'm talking about a three-down player who can contribute for the next 10 years.
Should the Jints be so fortunate to take an ER like Gary or Allen or Sweat at #6 then we could be looking at someone like ILB Devin Bush or perhaps CB Deandre Baker or OT Cody Ford
So if you are thinking qb at #17 consider the opportunity loss in your calculations
outside the box prediction i like it (not necessarily the pick but the creativeness)
No, you don't. His scouting report I linked makes it seem like he's pretty good.
Don't waste another pick on a QB.
Use that pick on somebody who can help build the team around the next QB, like an OT or a defensive player. Or even another WR.
Then make the next QB pick NEXT spring when there will almost certainly be more and to put a point on it, BETTER candidates available.
I second this emotion.
It’s Dave Brown, for all of us that remember those seasons. We were lucky to throw for more than 150 yards a game with him. This Jones guy could be good, but there is definitely a fear of Duke QB’s from a Giants fan perspective.
The first thing that jumped out to me was his feet. They're pretty good. He slides around and steps up into the pocket fairly well. He's not as good a thrower as Haskins is, but his feet are much better. On this alone I'd call him a better prospect than Haskins.
The biggest minus I saw in this particular game was his deep ball. The conditions weren't great so that may have played a part, but the ball really died on him. He wasn't as bad though throwing shorter passes to the numbers; the ball got there plenty fast on wide receiver screens, etc.
He's not a plus thrower, but he's a better than average athlete - that may reduce his need for plus throws if the Giants are willing to use him as a running threat.
Then make the next QB pick NEXT spring when there will almost certainly be more and to put a point on it, BETTER candidates available.
If the Giants finish 9-7 this year, they may be picking at #20 and all those QB prospects will be gone. I can certainly understand why some here want D at #6 and #17 or possibly a RT. But by the same token, many posters are screaming for an Eli replacement.
60% completion rate
8K yards
Only 50TD to 30 INT ratio
6.4 Y/A
Those aren't 1st Round QB numbers by a long shot. I believe the Giants are using 'the Cutcliffe connection' in what would admittedly be a little unusual for them...an attempt at misdirection.
Unlike Lock, Jones has excellent mechanics, and can throw on the run. He also reads defenses well, and is more than willing to stand in the pocket and take a hit. His mobility is good.
I'm just not sure he has the arm strength to throw a 20 yard NFL out route from the middle of the field. If he can't, corners will sit on those routes. But Shurmur of course said that arm strength is not the most important quality for a QB.
I'd rather take Finley in the third than Jones or Lock at #17.
They are not rainbows.
Unlike Lock, Jones has excellent mechanics, and can throw on the run. He also reads defenses well, and is more than willing to stand in the pocket and take a hit. His mobility is good.
I'm just not sure he has the arm strength to throw a 20 yard NFL out route from the middle of the field. If he can't, corners will sit on those routes. But Shurmur of course said that arm strength is not the most important quality for a QB.
I'd rather take Finley in the third than Jones or Lock at #17.
The first paragraph of this sounds like Eli for the past five or six years.
Greg Cosell Scouting Report - ( New Window )
He is known as a strong (can throw a bomb better than any QB in this class), is an accurate thrower with dexterity for the short throws, a very high character guy, and extremely cerebral (Duke isn't exactly Alabama on the academic level...sorry Bama fans). Of course he's tall (6'5") and can see over the front line and is the classic pocket QB, but with much more mobility to move around than Eli. I see him as being spry on his feet and can actually show quickness to elude sacks and blitzes.
I fully believe whatever team gets him will have a franchise QB by 2020/21.
He's NOT the horrible QB some people on this board are trying to make him out to be. I will be very pleased if he becomes the QB being groomed to take Eli's spot one day.
Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, JP Losman, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Kellen Clemens, Tarvaris Jackson, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Joe Flacco, Brian Brohm, Chad Henne, Josh Freeman, Pat White, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Brandon Weeden, Brock Osweiler, EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo, Paxton Lynch, Christian Hackenberg, DeShone Kizer
So out of 31 guys, only 2 (maybe 3 depending on your thoughts on a guy like Dalton or Jimmy G) are guys that I think you are happy with spending a first rounder on. If you aren't taking a QB in the first half of round 1, you are better off just waiting until the middle of the draft because the success rate is less than 10%.
Even if he gets a pass against Clemson, which he shouldn't because he was missing open WR's on several plays, his performance against a mediocre/bad Wake Forest team was really bad.
They lost something like 47-7 and Jones looked really bad. I came away from both games unimpressed with his velocity, his ability to make good reads and his ability to stand in under pressure.
Most here read an internet blurb and consider themselves and expert. Then it becomes emotional for no real reason.
What I've seen of him, I can point to areas where he looks decent/solid, but I want to be able to point to something - even just numbers and even those really aren't there - where I can say he has some sort of calling card or something really impressive and I just can't find that yet.
I don't have a really strong opinion on him yet, but right now it's not a pick I'd be particularly excited about.
That's what I saw, he doesn't have a strong arm and tries to make up for it with his body movement to get everything behind the ball on those deep passes.
I usually do a top 100 players on my own for fun every year. Right now I don’t have a single QB in the top 30. Haskins and Lock are probably in the 30-50 range.
Jones I have right now in the late third round area. He has some potential but he is not a top QB prospect. I’d be fine taking him with the 3rd rounder we got from the Browns. But the first rounder would be a really dumb and questionable valuation and roster and draft management blunder.
Sy- I know it’s early but if YOU were Giants GM what is your approach here in March with the two first rounders and early 2nd in terms of players.
Then hopefully they are picking him Sy. I'd rather spend a 2nd on Rosen.
That's my thinking too. Looking forward to your reports.
Hell, I like Thorson more come to think of it. I think there is some real sneaky upside to his game...
There are very few absolutes in the Draft. Probably the only one I can come up with is if you have the #1 pick and there is a franchise QB available you take him if you don't have one or trade it for a haul.
Jones and Finley have likely peaked, although Jones was under constant pressure, and his receivers dropped a lot of passes. Lock has a higher ceiling than both, but also a lower floor because his mechanics are often poor.
Too much other talent will still be available at #17 to take Lock or Jones, and also at the end of the third, when Finley might still be available.
Fourth-year junior helped himself at the Senior Bowl. “He was really good in the practices,” said one scout. “He’s going first round. He’s probably the most ready to play. I’m a big David Cutcliffe guy and his ability to deal with quarterbacks.” Cutcliffe, the Blue Devils’ coach, once coached the Mannings, Peyton and Eli. “Reminded me of Carson Wentz,” said another scout. “Tall, strong-armed, mechanically sound. You know he’s been well-coached. High, three-quarters delivery. Short motion. Good touch inside the numbers, inconsistent outside the numbers. Nice deep ball.” Missed just three weeks after suffering a broken collarbone early last season. “People will compare him to Joe Flacco,” a third scout said. “He’s not as athletic as Carson Wentz but he’s instinctive like Wentz.”
In what I've seen there are things to like but he is certainly not a very flashy player, especially his arm. That's not always the most important thing, in some ways it's least important because it just needs to be "good enough". His velocity at the combine was actually decent.
The 3 specific things I like are:
1- checks all the boxes mentally + has experience in a pro system
2- shows toughness delivering the ball from the pocket
3- has shown as much running ability as any QB not named Kyler Murray
If he's the pick I'll trust Shurmur + Gettleman's evaluation of him reached a stronger consensus compared to the other options last year, this year, and since they are presumably somewhat considering the options next year.
The offshoot is, if this this team somehow improves, we will not have a low draft pick next year....it's a double edged sword.....
"Daniel Jones has franchise quarterback “potential”. He has the size, athleticism, arm strength, accuracy along with the ability to throw from the pocket that you look for in a potential franchise quarterback. Daniel has excellent maturity in all facets of his game and because he is so respected by his teammates he has excellent leadership skills to make the players around him better. He can throw on the move with accuracy and has the ability to change his release point without losing any accuracy or velocity...."
Review - ( New Window )
Bingo. I wouldn't be happy at all with them drafting him at #17. As we saw with Keenum, I don't think it's necessary to have the strongest arm in Shurmur's offense. But in order to play in this stadium and to win a 'Ship, a QB is going to have to make a Manning to Manningham throw at some point. I just don't think Jones can do that.
I would actually be more comfortable with the pick if they took him at 6 than if they took him at 17. Taking him at 6 shows conviction, that they view him as a franchise QB and that they don’t want to risk losing him by waiting.
If you view a guy that way you jump at the chance to take him, you don’t sit back and wait hoping he’ll be there later.
I would actually be more comfortable with the pick if they took him at 6 than if they took him at 17. Taking him at 6 shows conviction, that they view him as a franchise QB and that they don’t want to risk losing him by waiting.
If you view a guy that way you jump at the chance to take him, you don’t sit back and wait hoping he’ll be there later.
I think you're right, Mike. At #6 it certainly would show conviction.
He is known as a strong (can throw a bomb better than any QB in this class), is an accurate thrower with dexterity for the short throws, a very high character guy, and extremely cerebral (Duke isn't exactly Alabama on the academic level...sorry Bama fans). Of course he's tall (6'5") and can see over the front line and is the classic pocket QB, but with much more mobility to move around than Eli. I see him as being spry on his feet and can actually show quickness to elude sacks and blitzes.
I fully believe whatever team gets him will have a franchise QB by 2020/21.
He's NOT the horrible QB some people on this board are trying to make him out to be. I will be very pleased if he becomes the QB being groomed to take Eli's spot one day.
I've watched nearly every Duke football game the last two years (at least when they've been on tv). I agree with most of what you said. I'm not sure I'd qualify him as a "quick" or sudden athlete, but he's big, strong and pretty fast and knows how to run with the ball. He can throw a pretty deep ball too. I just have a hard time seeing him in the same target range as a Josh Rosen (if he could be had for a second rounder or even a #17 pick). I didn't typically see the velocity on this throws that I think you'd ideally like to see, but he definitely has a lot of good pieces. He is not Dave Brown (then again, Dave Brown wasn't the Dave Brown we know now, until he was...).
All in all, I think he's a quality 2nd round pick, but I'm very much in line with the poster below who pointed out that QB draft picks from essentially outside the top 10 through the second round rarely pan out into long time starters, let alone franchise QBs. That's the one thing Gettleman has said that I agree with. If you want a QB, you gotta get him in the first round, and you gotta do it at the top of the first round to maximize your changes. History just bears that out too often. There of course are exceptions, but who wants to bank this team's future on Gettleman picking the next Tom Brady or the next Russell Wilson or even Jimmy G? Especially not when the Giants will have had the #2 pick and the #6 pick the last two years. I'm not sure that a QB is worth it at #6 this year, but last year...and maybe a wish and a prayer at next year....
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and no matter what comparisons are made, he is his own person and no two people are alike. He would not be the second coming of (insert your favorite QB to hate or failed QB here).
He is known as a strong (can throw a bomb better than any QB in this class), is an accurate thrower with dexterity for the short throws, a very high character guy, and extremely cerebral (Duke isn't exactly Alabama on the academic level...sorry Bama fans). Of course he's tall (6'5") and can see over the front line and is the classic pocket QB, but with much more mobility to move around than Eli. I see him as being spry on his feet and can actually show quickness to elude sacks and blitzes.
I fully believe whatever team gets him will have a franchise QB by 2020/21.
He's NOT the horrible QB some people on this board are trying to make him out to be. I will be very pleased if he becomes the QB being groomed to take Eli's spot one day.
I've watched nearly every Duke football game the last two years (at least when they've been on tv). I agree with most of what you said. I'm not sure I'd qualify him as a "quick" or sudden athlete, but he's big, strong and pretty fast and knows how to run with the ball. He can throw a pretty deep ball too. I just have a hard time seeing him in the same target range as a Josh Rosen (if he could be had for a second rounder or even a #17 pick). I didn't typically see the velocity on this throws that I think you'd ideally like to see, but he definitely has a lot of good pieces. He is not Dave Brown (then again, Dave Brown wasn't the Dave Brown we know now, until he was...).
All in all, I think he's a quality 2nd round pick, but I'm very much in line with the poster below who pointed out that QB draft picks from essentially outside the top 10 through the second round rarely pan out into long time starters, let alone franchise QBs. That's the one thing Gettleman has said that I agree with. If you want a QB, you gotta get him in the first round, and you gotta do it at the top of the first round to maximize your changes. History just bears that out too often. There of course are exceptions, but who wants to bank this team's future on Gettleman picking the next Tom Brady or the next Russell Wilson or even Jimmy G? Especially not when the Giants will have had the #2 pick and the #6 pick the last two years. I'm not sure that a QB is worth it at #6 this year, but last year...and maybe a wish and a prayer at next year....
Oh yeah, and as the scouting report said, his delivery isn't the quickest.
Gettleman would only pull the trigger if he thought that Daniel Jones is the guy. If that is the case, I am willing to see how things unfold. They are the experts in this (despite what draft gurus think) and as always there are a lot of factors in building a roster.
We have to remember that Shurmur and Shula are very experienced with developing QBs and they know what Shurmur wants for his offence going forward.
NYG will have plenty of inside sources, particularly with Cutliffe but also both Eli and Peyton have worked with him.
Gettleman, Shurmur and Shula will have an excellent idea of what Jones brings to the table.
One factor that needs to be considered is that our future QB, whoever it is, has to deal with the NY media frenzy.
I personally am keen to go defence with both first round picks, but if it is a choice between Haskins at #6 or Jones at #17 and a stud pass rusher at 6, I can see the a case for the latter.
take a RT Dilliard at 17
Go back to Defense at #37 unless a center or another
DE pass rusher . The offensive line will be 100% improved
then look for a WR in the 3rd round or another CB .
I usually do a top 100 players on my own for fun every year. Right now I don’t have a single QB in the top 30. Haskins and Lock are probably in the 30-50 range.
Jones I have right now in the late third round area. He has some potential but he is not a top QB prospect. I’d be fine taking him with the 3rd rounder we got from the Browns. But the first rounder would be a really dumb and questionable valuation and roster and draft management blunder.
I would be shocked if the Giants take any QB at 17.
He has pretty good straight line speed, he's not quick twitch, but he does a good job climbing the pocket while looking downfield.
He did miss some intermediate throws, that's probably his biggest call out. I think I would question his decision making and accuracy on the intermediate levels.
All in all, I like him! I think if he played for a Ohio State or Clemson, he'd likely be a 1st rd choice for sure. Because of the talent level at Duke, it masked some of his game for better or worse. I would not go for him at 17, I would target him at #37. But I would not throw the remote at 17.
You can also see him manipulate the safeties with his head.
How many passes are dropped?
If he had Ohio State's or Clemson's WRs, what do some of these passes look like?
Lots of passes batted.
His accuracy on the move or when harrassed is not good.
Overall though, this comes out positive to me.
Jones vs Clemson 2018 - ( New Window )
He looks good a short to intermediate passes.
Its difficult to tell his arm strength in the games I saw, that's where he is knocked for needing improvement.
Earlier I thought he was a 1st rounder, not sure where he lands. He could benefit by sitting as year on the bench.
Not sure if getting the 2nd first was required for the qb or not, but my thinking was since he wanted #2 from San Fran, he was try to get a top edge guy Bosa/Allen first and then be able to take his guy at 6.
Feel he needs a 1st round edge guy but there is a lot and only 2 top level which we cant get at 6. the drop off between the 3rd guy at 6 or whoever is avaiable at 17 isnt that great.
even if murray doesnt go 1 he is gone before we can get him. that cant be his plan. and someone is coming up for haskins and will think they neded to get in front of us for him.
unless allen drops or nobody comes up for haskins and we drop back so (den,cincy, or mia) can take Haskins, we probably take Lock or Jones 6.
There are very few absolutes in the Draft. Probably the only one I can come up with is if you have the #1 pick and there is a franchise QB available you take him if you don't have one or trade it for a haul.
What if you have the second pick....?
Jim in Forest Hills : 8:18 am : link : reply
He surveys the field, not a 1 read guy.
You can also see him manipulate the safeties with his head.
How many passes are dropped?
If he had Ohio State's or Clemson's WRs, what do some of these passes look like?
Lots of passes batted.
His accuracy on the move or when harrassed is not good.
My Dad and I both commented on how he missed looking in the direction of receivers who had gotten open, and how his velocity looked poor. Granted, he was going up against Lawrence and the differences in the two in warmups was striking, but I was excited to see Jones and he disappointed.
I also can't underestimate how bad he looked vs. Wake Forest. Blown out 59-7 at home. Under 50% completion rate and under 150 yards passing
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My Dad and I both commented on how he missed looking in the direction of receivers who had gotten open, and how his velocity looked poor. Granted, he was going up against Lawrence and the differences in the two in warmups was striking, but I was excited to see Jones and he disappointed.
I also can't underestimate how bad he looked vs. Wake Forest. Blown out 59-7 at home. Under 50% completion rate and under 150 yards passing
Obviously I can't see who was open on youtube, so I will take your word for it. To me, it looks like he tries to hit his hot reads under duress. When he has time, his decision making looks ok. I will watch the WF cutups.
Jones fits the prototype. Murray and Haskins don’t. Last year, 3 of 4 QBs fit the prototype, but the only one successful so far is the one who didn’t fit.
If it works out, I would rather take a chance on Rosen with 37 and a 4th round pick than Jones at 17.
Why? He's a good player. Runs a pro style offense. Led a talent poor team to a winning record and a bowl win. Good size, accurate. Lots to like there.
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anywhere in Rd 1 or 2, and considering the apparent depth of this draft, in round 3 either.
Why? He's a good player. Runs a pro style offense. Led a talent poor team to a winning record and a bowl win. Good size, accurate. Lots to like there.
The competition he played, mainly. His counting stats are juiced up with big games against Pitt, Georgia Tech, and other equally talent-poor teams. and the bowl game win was against Temple playing with a replacement head coach. When you look at the games he played against significant competition, he was made to be a real nonfactor.
You can also see him manipulate the safeties with his head.
How many passes are dropped?
If he had Ohio State's or Clemson's WRs, what do some of these passes look like?
Lots of passes batted.
His accuracy on the move or when harrassed is not good.
Overall though, this comes out positive to me. Jones vs Clemson 2018 - ( New Window )
I sort of tossed this game because of the talent disparity between Duke and Clemson. But I didn’t think Jones looked inspiring at all. He moved okay to keep some plays alive, but thought he got rattled too easily. Overall, I struggle to find anything on the plus side about his game other than movement. I struggle to give him anything other than a third round projection.
You want to watch a QB have a sneaky good game against Clemson with inferior talent? Watch Finley’s game. Showed great poise, showed really good movement in and out of the pocket, made two throws that were likely long TDs or big gains but the receiver dropped the ball, and kept competing despite the big score deficit. Now, he was off on a few outs, but I think that was more timing and less about arm skill...
Jones hasn’t shown IT. Not Lock either. None of these potential QBs have shown IT either, although Murray and/or Haskins may not have played enough games. So if you don’t love one of the choices, you can’t pick one.
Jones hasn’t shown IT. Not Lock either. None of these potential QBs have shown IT either, although Murray and/or Haskins may not have played enough games. So if you don’t love one of the choices, you can’t pick one.
I get the “it” thing, but Lock has a plus-NFL arm though. I saw a stat, and keep me honest if I misrepresent it, that Lock would have had a 70% completion rate if his receivers didn’t drop catchable balls. So his accuracy might me underrated too.
Eric Dungey played very well. He has a lot of injury concerns, but Dungey took what the Clemson D was giving him on single coverage and ran or scrambled to make positive plays when his protection broke down.
I wouldn't advocate drafting Dungey, but seeing him play and then Jones play, Jones looked comparatively really poor.
I'm actually struggling to see what people are high on him for. I saw Will Grier play live a couple of times, and he looked much better too, and I wouldn't even advocate drafting him.
With either Edge or OT at #6.
He seems to be what they want in a QB. Regardless of what some of the Draft Guru's think of him.
A mediocre rag-arm is what they want? Well, I guess they DID draft Lauletta.....
In comment 14346421 big_blue said:
Cooley (I'm sorry I keep going to him) that he felt liek Jones did more with less than any QB in this draft, Mentioned how his OL have him zero protection but he'd stand tall in the pocket and still make throws with guys hanging on him.
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Giants licked him
Cooley (I'm sorry I keep going to him) that he felt liek Jones did more with less than any QB in this draft, Mentioned how his OL have him zero protection but he'd stand tall in the pocket and still make throws with guys hanging on him.
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Giants licked him
He actually runs well, seen him a few games. I would say
he is similar to Josh Allen last year in that regard.
He doesn't have the bazooka arm like Josh Allen, but
he is very athletic. I would prefer him in Round 2,
if he is still around. I would like him over Haskins or Lock, in the long term.
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Giants licked him
Now that would surprise me.
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Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Giants licked him
Now that would surprise me.
He needs a new keyboard (I hope)
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Eli Manning would be in that group 90% of the time. It is the 10% of brilliance that you are looking for. Ernie saw it in Eli’s college record.
Jones hasn’t shown IT. Not Lock either. None of these potential QBs have shown IT either, although Murray and/or Haskins may not have played enough games. So if you don’t love one of the choices, you can’t pick one.
I get the “it” thing, but Lock has a plus-NFL arm though. I saw a stat, and keep me honest if I misrepresent it, that Lock would have had a 70% completion rate if his receivers didn’t drop catchable balls. So his accuracy might me underrated too.
Not to mention Murray’s insane skill set.