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How would you feel if Daniel Jones was picked @17?

mrvax : 3/18/2019 8:57 pm
I never saw him play. I did see his highlights and read a scouting report or 2. Is he improving each year? Can he be compared to Eli when just coming out?

He looks pretty good to me but I'd like to get the scoop from others. What is there not to like about him?

The reason I mentioned pick #17 is because if the Giants really like him, I don't think they'd just hope he drops so far...

Walterfootball: Daniel Jones Scouting Report - ( New Window )
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I like the guy alot  
mavric : 3/18/2019 9:45 pm : link
and no matter what comparisons are made, he is his own person and no two people are alike. He would not be the second coming of (insert your favorite QB to hate or failed QB here).

He is known as a strong (can throw a bomb better than any QB in this class), is an accurate thrower with dexterity for the short throws, a very high character guy, and extremely cerebral (Duke isn't exactly Alabama on the academic level...sorry Bama fans). Of course he's tall (6'5") and can see over the front line and is the classic pocket QB, but with much more mobility to move around than Eli. I see him as being spry on his feet and can actually show quickness to elude sacks and blitzes.

I fully believe whatever team gets him will have a franchise QB by 2020/21.

He's NOT the horrible QB some people on this board are trying to make him out to be. I will be very pleased if he becomes the QB being groomed to take Eli's spot one day.
BBI  
AcidTest : 3/18/2019 9:45 pm : link
will have its usual catastrophic meltdown if Jones is the pick at #17, but he easily could be. As I said, I'd rather not take Jones at #17, but certainly wouldn't hate it because he has a lot to offer. I'd be much more comfortable taking him at #37, but if he's their guy, then you don't risk losing him.
Frankly, I'd rather have Davis Webb, though  
CT Charlie : 3/18/2019 9:46 pm : link
not at 17.
Odds are it would be a waste of a draft pick  
Mike in NJ : 3/18/2019 9:47 pm : link
Over the last 15 years, here are the QBs selected between the middle of round 1 and end of round 2:

Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, JP Losman, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Kellen Clemens, Tarvaris Jackson, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Joe Flacco, Brian Brohm, Chad Henne, Josh Freeman, Pat White, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Brandon Weeden, Brock Osweiler, EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo, Paxton Lynch, Christian Hackenberg, DeShone Kizer

So out of 31 guys, only 2 (maybe 3 depending on your thoughts on a guy like Dalton or Jimmy G) are guys that I think you are happy with spending a first rounder on. If you aren't taking a QB in the first half of round 1, you are better off just waiting until the middle of the draft because the success rate is less than 10%.

'have a franchise QB by 2020/21'...  
Torrag : 3/18/2019 9:47 pm : link
/cough really? I sincerely doubt it but you're entitled to that opinion.
Saw him play..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/18/2019 9:49 pm : link
live twice this year and he was very bad both games.

Even if he gets a pass against Clemson, which he shouldn't because he was missing open WR's on several plays, his performance against a mediocre/bad Wake Forest team was really bad.

They lost something like 47-7 and Jones looked really bad. I came away from both games unimpressed with his velocity, his ability to make good reads and his ability to stand in under pressure.
I would be disappointed  
Oscar : 3/18/2019 9:53 pm : link
But like some others after listening to Gettleman today I get the impression this is the way they are leaning. They probably view the #17 pick as found money, they will talk themselves into Jones being a smart kid who’s worked with Cutcliffe and will learn from Eli. Safe and defensible, the Giants way.

BBI is getting rediculous - mid season everyone wanted the guy  
PatersonPlank : 3/18/2019 9:54 pm : link
Truth is hes a good prospect. He's got all the skills and size needed, and has had good coaching. He also played on a crap team. I'd be happy with him at 17.

Most here read an internet blurb and consider themselves and expert. Then it becomes emotional for no real reason.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/18/2019 9:57 pm : link
I also felt like the ball really kind of died on him when I watched him - I didn't see a good deep ball. He looks decent enough short/midrange and I think he's a guy with a decent base for Shurmur to work with... but I like seeing some sort of plus tool somewhere or something that jumps out and there's just really nothing with Jones.

What I've seen of him, I can point to areas where he looks decent/solid, but I want to be able to point to something - even just numbers and even those really aren't there - where I can say he has some sort of calling card or something really impressive and I just can't find that yet.

I don't have a really strong opinion on him yet, but right now it's not a pick I'd be particularly excited about.
If they aren’t using a top 10 pick on a quarterback then  
BSIMatt : 3/18/2019 9:58 pm : link
I’d rather wait till round 2 if they are still gonna add one in the draft. I think they could get a similar talent to Jones(or even Jones himself) in round 2.
Scouting reports seems to say, similar to haskins  
George from PA : 3/18/2019 9:58 pm : link
Not much capability with his legs......isnt that a requirements
RE: Here is a scouting report from Greg Cosell  
GFAN52 : 3/18/2019 9:58 pm : link
In comment 14346496 RawhideMarshall said:
Quote:
I cannot claim to have watched many Duke football games, but I watched Jones throw at the combine. On the fly routes he took his drop and then crow-hopped back almost to the LOS presumably to get more into the throw. One of the analysts (Kurt Warner maybe?) commented that he would be sacked if he tried that at the next level. Cosell mentions that he "has a tendency to hitch up into the pocket and at times create his own pressure". I have not seen many scouting reports question his arm strength, but it looked to me that he was crow-hopping to compensate on the deep throws. Greg Cosell Scouting Report - ( New Window )


That's what I saw, he doesn't have a strong arm and tries to make up for it with his body movement to get everything behind the ball on those deep passes.
I would feel sick  
Sammo85 : 3/18/2019 9:59 pm : link
Given the tremendous talent that is available at that point on both of the lines and at some of the other ball skill positions.

I usually do a top 100 players on my own for fun every year. Right now I don’t have a single QB in the top 30. Haskins and Lock are probably in the 30-50 range.

Jones I have right now in the late third round area. He has some potential but he is not a top QB prospect. I’d be fine taking him with the 3rd rounder we got from the Browns. But the first rounder would be a really dumb and questionable valuation and roster and draft management blunder.
If NYG has a 1st round grade on Jones  
Sy'56 : 3/18/2019 10:00 pm : link
They are picking him at 6, not 17.
RE: If NYG has a 1st round grade on Jones  
Sammo85 : 3/18/2019 10:03 pm : link
In comment 14346522 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
They are picking him at 6, not 17.


Sy- I know it’s early but if YOU were Giants GM what is your approach here in March with the two first rounders and early 2nd in terms of players.
RE: If NYG has a 1st round grade on Jones  
GFAN52 : 3/18/2019 10:03 pm : link
In comment 14346522 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
They are picking him at 6, not 17.


Then hopefully they are picking him Sy. I'd rather spend a 2nd on Rosen.
RE: If NYG has a 1st round grade on Jones  
Go Terps : 3/18/2019 10:08 pm : link
In comment 14346522 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
They are picking him at 6, not 17.


That's my thinking too. Looking forward to your reports.
If there wasn't the overrated Cutler factor...  
bw in dc : 3/18/2019 10:09 pm : link
Jones will battling with Clayton Thorson for a mid-round pick.

Hell, I like Thorson more come to think of it. I think there is some real sneaky upside to his game...
'They are picking him at 6, not 17'...  
Torrag : 3/18/2019 10:16 pm : link
/sigh that makes no sense. The benefit of having two 2nd Rounders is taking players in the slot they belong. As happened with Johnny Manziel @ #22. Why because they were able to Draft Justin Gilbert #8 and he was a much better football player as was proven out by their respective careers. Same results applied when Brady Quinn was his teams second pick in the 2007 Draft. Why? Because they were able to get Joe freaking Thomas #3.

There are very few absolutes in the Draft. Probably the only one I can come up with is if you have the #1 pick and there is a franchise QB available you take him if you don't have one or trade it for a haul.
I  
AcidTest : 3/18/2019 10:19 pm : link
would prefer not to take a QB this year, and focus on building the rest of the team, especially since the draft is so deep on OL and DL talent.

Jones and Finley have likely peaked, although Jones was under constant pressure, and his receivers dropped a lot of passes. Lock has a higher ceiling than both, but also a lower floor because his mechanics are often poor.

Too much other talent will still be available at #17 to take Lock or Jones, and also at the end of the third, when Finley might still be available.
Stidham  
Philu916 : 3/18/2019 10:22 pm : link
Would rather DG draft Stidham round 3 than Jones even round 2... Stidham can be a better pro and don’t get why he’s not looked at more as a potential starter.
Here's McGinn's initial report on him (he has him as a first rd pick)  
Eric on Li : 3/18/2019 10:29 pm : link
Quote:
DANIEL JONES*, QB, Duke: 6-5, 221.

Fourth-year junior helped himself at the Senior Bowl. “He was really good in the practices,” said one scout. “He’s going first round. He’s probably the most ready to play. I’m a big David Cutcliffe guy and his ability to deal with quarterbacks.” Cutcliffe, the Blue Devils’ coach, once coached the Mannings, Peyton and Eli. “Reminded me of Carson Wentz,” said another scout. “Tall, strong-armed, mechanically sound. You know he’s been well-coached. High, three-quarters delivery. Short motion. Good touch inside the numbers, inconsistent outside the numbers. Nice deep ball.” Missed just three weeks after suffering a broken collarbone early last season. “People will compare him to Joe Flacco,” a third scout said. “He’s not as athletic as Carson Wentz but he’s instinctive like Wentz.”

In what I've seen there are things to like but he is certainly not a very flashy player, especially his arm. That's not always the most important thing, in some ways it's least important because it just needs to be "good enough". His velocity at the combine was actually decent.

The 3 specific things I like are:
1- checks all the boxes mentally + has experience in a pro system
2- shows toughness delivering the ball from the pocket
3- has shown as much running ability as any QB not named Kyler Murray

If he's the pick I'll trust Shurmur + Gettleman's evaluation of him reached a stronger consensus compared to the other options last year, this year, and since they are presumably somewhat considering the options next year.
I dont want a QB this year  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 3/18/2019 10:31 pm : link
So is hate this pick.
It's a fine line.....  
Doomster : 3/18/2019 10:34 pm : link
I don't think there will be a QB at 6......don't want a project at 17.....need 2-4 viable starters from this draft....

The offshoot is, if this this team somehow improves, we will not have a low draft pick next year....it's a double edged sword.....
Boylehart likes him  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/18/2019 10:40 pm : link
Not as much as the other two, but close. He has him ranked at 1.46 (1st round) and slightly behind both Haskins and Murray.

"Daniel Jones has franchise quarterback “potential”. He has the size, athleticism, arm strength, accuracy along with the ability to throw from the pocket that you look for in a potential franchise quarterback. Daniel has excellent maturity in all facets of his game and because he is so respected by his teammates he has excellent leadership skills to make the players around him better. He can throw on the move with accuracy and has the ability to change his release point without losing any accuracy or velocity...."
Review - ( New Window )
RE: .  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/18/2019 10:46 pm : link
In comment 14346514 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I also felt like the ball really kind of died on him when I watched him - I didn't see a good deep ball.


Bingo. I wouldn't be happy at all with them drafting him at #17. As we saw with Keenum, I don't think it's necessary to have the strongest arm in Shurmur's offense. But in order to play in this stadium and to win a 'Ship, a QB is going to have to make a Manning to Manningham throw at some point. I just don't think Jones can do that.
Simple:  
santacruzom : 3/18/2019 10:59 pm : link
Unsurprised.
So because he went to Dave Browns college  
O Butter Giants 2019 : 3/18/2019 11:07 pm : link
... he's "bad"?
bad...  
.McL. : 3/18/2019 11:15 pm : link
Very BAAAAAD....
RE: If NYG has a 1st round grade on Jones  
Mike in NJ : 3/18/2019 11:15 pm : link
In comment 14346522 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
They are picking him at 6, not 17.


I would actually be more comfortable with the pick if they took him at 6 than if they took him at 17. Taking him at 6 shows conviction, that they view him as a franchise QB and that they don’t want to risk losing him by waiting.

If you view a guy that way you jump at the chance to take him, you don’t sit back and wait hoping he’ll be there later.
RE: RE: If NYG has a 1st round grade on Jones  
mrvax : 3/18/2019 11:19 pm : link
In comment 14346607 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:

I would actually be more comfortable with the pick if they took him at 6 than if they took him at 17. Taking him at 6 shows conviction, that they view him as a franchise QB and that they don’t want to risk losing him by waiting.

If you view a guy that way you jump at the chance to take him, you don’t sit back and wait hoping he’ll be there later.


I think you're right, Mike. At #6 it certainly would show conviction.

He would become my new favorite...  
Brown_Hornet : 3/18/2019 11:32 pm : link
.QB?
RE: I like the guy alot  
Danny80 : 3/18/2019 11:46 pm : link
In comment 14346500 mavric said:
Quote:
and no matter what comparisons are made, he is his own person and no two people are alike. He would not be the second coming of (insert your favorite QB to hate or failed QB here).

He is known as a strong (can throw a bomb better than any QB in this class), is an accurate thrower with dexterity for the short throws, a very high character guy, and extremely cerebral (Duke isn't exactly Alabama on the academic level...sorry Bama fans). Of course he's tall (6'5") and can see over the front line and is the classic pocket QB, but with much more mobility to move around than Eli. I see him as being spry on his feet and can actually show quickness to elude sacks and blitzes.

I fully believe whatever team gets him will have a franchise QB by 2020/21.

He's NOT the horrible QB some people on this board are trying to make him out to be. I will be very pleased if he becomes the QB being groomed to take Eli's spot one day.


I've watched nearly every Duke football game the last two years (at least when they've been on tv). I agree with most of what you said. I'm not sure I'd qualify him as a "quick" or sudden athlete, but he's big, strong and pretty fast and knows how to run with the ball. He can throw a pretty deep ball too. I just have a hard time seeing him in the same target range as a Josh Rosen (if he could be had for a second rounder or even a #17 pick). I didn't typically see the velocity on this throws that I think you'd ideally like to see, but he definitely has a lot of good pieces. He is not Dave Brown (then again, Dave Brown wasn't the Dave Brown we know now, until he was...).

All in all, I think he's a quality 2nd round pick, but I'm very much in line with the poster below who pointed out that QB draft picks from essentially outside the top 10 through the second round rarely pan out into long time starters, let alone franchise QBs. That's the one thing Gettleman has said that I agree with. If you want a QB, you gotta get him in the first round, and you gotta do it at the top of the first round to maximize your changes. History just bears that out too often. There of course are exceptions, but who wants to bank this team's future on Gettleman picking the next Tom Brady or the next Russell Wilson or even Jimmy G? Especially not when the Giants will have had the #2 pick and the #6 pick the last two years. I'm not sure that a QB is worth it at #6 this year, but last year...and maybe a wish and a prayer at next year....
RE: RE: I like the guy alot  
Danny80 : 3/18/2019 11:48 pm : link
In comment 14346623 Danny80 said:
Quote:
In comment 14346500 mavric said:


Quote:


and no matter what comparisons are made, he is his own person and no two people are alike. He would not be the second coming of (insert your favorite QB to hate or failed QB here).

He is known as a strong (can throw a bomb better than any QB in this class), is an accurate thrower with dexterity for the short throws, a very high character guy, and extremely cerebral (Duke isn't exactly Alabama on the academic level...sorry Bama fans). Of course he's tall (6'5") and can see over the front line and is the classic pocket QB, but with much more mobility to move around than Eli. I see him as being spry on his feet and can actually show quickness to elude sacks and blitzes.

I fully believe whatever team gets him will have a franchise QB by 2020/21.

He's NOT the horrible QB some people on this board are trying to make him out to be. I will be very pleased if he becomes the QB being groomed to take Eli's spot one day.



I've watched nearly every Duke football game the last two years (at least when they've been on tv). I agree with most of what you said. I'm not sure I'd qualify him as a "quick" or sudden athlete, but he's big, strong and pretty fast and knows how to run with the ball. He can throw a pretty deep ball too. I just have a hard time seeing him in the same target range as a Josh Rosen (if he could be had for a second rounder or even a #17 pick). I didn't typically see the velocity on this throws that I think you'd ideally like to see, but he definitely has a lot of good pieces. He is not Dave Brown (then again, Dave Brown wasn't the Dave Brown we know now, until he was...).

All in all, I think he's a quality 2nd round pick, but I'm very much in line with the poster below who pointed out that QB draft picks from essentially outside the top 10 through the second round rarely pan out into long time starters, let alone franchise QBs. That's the one thing Gettleman has said that I agree with. If you want a QB, you gotta get him in the first round, and you gotta do it at the top of the first round to maximize your changes. History just bears that out too often. There of course are exceptions, but who wants to bank this team's future on Gettleman picking the next Tom Brady or the next Russell Wilson or even Jimmy G? Especially not when the Giants will have had the #2 pick and the #6 pick the last two years. I'm not sure that a QB is worth it at #6 this year, but last year...and maybe a wish and a prayer at next year....


Oh yeah, and as the scouting report said, his delivery isn't the quickest.
Not bad  
giantsFC : 3/19/2019 12:07 am : link
As it wouldn’t effect getting to draft Tua next year if they have a chance, or, even better, Trevor Lawrence the filing year, and if he were to pan out, then EVEN BETTER.
Not interested  
UberAlias : 3/19/2019 12:11 am : link
Much rather move up for Lock.
I am not a fan of Daniel Jones, but if he was the pick....  
Big_Pete : 3/19/2019 12:47 am : link
I would be willing to wait and see how it turns out.

Gettleman would only pull the trigger if he thought that Daniel Jones is the guy. If that is the case, I am willing to see how things unfold. They are the experts in this (despite what draft gurus think) and as always there are a lot of factors in building a roster.

We have to remember that Shurmur and Shula are very experienced with developing QBs and they know what Shurmur wants for his offence going forward.

NYG will have plenty of inside sources, particularly with Cutliffe but also both Eli and Peyton have worked with him.

Gettleman, Shurmur and Shula will have an excellent idea of what Jones brings to the table.


One factor that needs to be considered is that our future QB, whoever it is, has to deal with the NY media frenzy.

I personally am keen to go defence with both first round picks, but if it is a choice between Haskins at #6 or Jones at #17 and a stud pass rusher at 6, I can see the a case for the latter.
First three picks in the trenches...  
Bluesbreaker : 3/19/2019 2:06 am : link
Get an edge Rusher like Allen or Ferrell
take a RT Dilliard at 17
Go back to Defense at #37 unless a center or another
DE pass rusher . The offensive line will be 100% improved
then look for a WR in the 3rd round or another CB .
I lean towards he is a backup QB  
giantstock : 3/19/2019 4:01 am : link
Everything about him looks slow.
I wouldnt like it but I’d be on board and hope  
Brown Recluse : 3/19/2019 5:52 am : link
he’s better than I think he is
Would  
DG_89 : 3/19/2019 6:11 am : link
prefer all defense or defender at 6 and WR/OT at 17, but I will take a step back and trust the guys paid to do this for a living. If the kid becomes a Giant he has my support
How does he compare to Eli coming out  
BillT : 3/19/2019 6:21 am : link
When Eli was the consensus number one pick coming out.
RE: I would feel sick  
Beer Man : 3/19/2019 6:52 am : link
In comment 14346519 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
Given the tremendous talent that is available at that point on both of the lines and at some of the other ball skill positions.

I usually do a top 100 players on my own for fun every year. Right now I don’t have a single QB in the top 30. Haskins and Lock are probably in the 30-50 range.

Jones I have right now in the late third round area. He has some potential but he is not a top QB prospect. I’d be fine taking him with the 3rd rounder we got from the Browns. But the first rounder would be a really dumb and questionable valuation and roster and draft management blunder.
+1
RE: He doesn't throw the deep ball very well  
Beer Man : 3/19/2019 6:54 am : link
In comment 14346493 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
from what I've seen. He seems mobile for a guy his size though.
Chris Simms said something similar. Says Jones does not turn into his throws.
Not good  
The_Boss : 3/19/2019 7:26 am : link
-
This 'mobile' crap is getting out of hand....  
nzyme : 3/19/2019 7:41 am : link
So now if the QB doesn't throw the deep ball it's OK because he's mobile? The first grade on EVERY QB should be "He can make every throw on the field!". If he can move his feet around in a 10 yard box then I'm good with his mobility.
If you believe in the QB  
ij_reilly : 3/19/2019 7:49 am : link
You take him at 6, not 17.

I would be shocked if the Giants take any QB at 17.
I watched 3 games last year when the hype was building  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/19/2019 8:00 am : link
IMO, the deep ball is his strong suit. Jones was dropping dimes into his WR's arms while they were running full on, really nice throws. His WRs dropped most of these balls.

He has pretty good straight line speed, he's not quick twitch, but he does a good job climbing the pocket while looking downfield.

He did miss some intermediate throws, that's probably his biggest call out. I think I would question his decision making and accuracy on the intermediate levels.

All in all, I like him! I think if he played for a Ohio State or Clemson, he'd likely be a 1st rd choice for sure. Because of the talent level at Duke, it masked some of his game for better or worse. I would not go for him at 17, I would target him at #37. But I would not throw the remote at 17.
Watch his snaps vs Clemson and that NFL loaded defense  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/19/2019 8:18 am : link
He surveys the field, not a 1 read guy.

You can also see him manipulate the safeties with his head.

How many passes are dropped?

If he had Ohio State's or Clemson's WRs, what do some of these passes look like?

Lots of passes batted.

His accuracy on the move or when harrassed is not good.

Overall though, this comes out positive to me.
Jones vs Clemson 2018 - ( New Window )
He's a Project with Potential  
upnyg : 3/19/2019 8:18 am : link
I've watched 3 full games this past year. In some games he looks very good in spurts. He is a "gamer" and needs to protect himself in the run better.

He looks good a short to intermediate passes.

Its difficult to tell his arm strength in the games I saw, that's where he is knocked for needing improvement.

Earlier I thought he was a 1st rounder, not sure where he lands. He could benefit by sitting as year on the bench.
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