Eli Manning IS the Problem. He is the cloud. He is the rot.
In the aftermath of the Odell Beckham trade, BBI seemed to expel a collective sign of relief that the “cloud” hanging over the Giants has passed and that there had been a “rot” that set in for a culture of accepting losing.
It is my contention that the “cloud” hanging over this organization is Eli and the “rot” that set in began when the New York Giants began worrying about things other than winning and putting Eli Mannings concerns and needs above everyone else’s.
It is not my contention to argue about the Beckham trade as it’s possible to make the right move for the wrong reasons. The Beckham trade is irrelevant to this argument and I am not arguing for or against that trade.
One of the things that struck me during the BBI aftermath was a poster who told the story of the Bill Parcells and Phil Simms sideline fight. The new detail was that this was over a single play call In a game that they were winning big. I have also heard Phil Simms tell a similar story about Parcells and there was a constant theme of Parcells placing winning above all else and you create that environment by holding everyone accountable and placing no one player beyond that and never resting on accolades.
The New York Giants have placed Eli Manning above everyone else and he is treated differently and the Giants feel Eli is maybe owed something for winning the two Super Bowls.
A few examples stand out -
The Giants hired Ben McAdoo largely on “continuity” with the “quarterback” as said by John Mara at the opening press conference. The Giants at that point had 3 non-playoff years, had already suffered through the 2013 debacle that saw Mara call for an entire new offense and system and the promotion of a young OC with very limited success was all about Eli’s familiarity with the system and the progression of the offense numbers in the 2 years from bottoming out in 2013. Ignored was the fact that it was due to the arrival of Odell and that it never reached the heights of the Gilbride offense.
Despite the fact that the Giants were losing, the comfortableness of their 35 year old QB was what made the Head Coaching decision.
This was the time to overhaul the culture of a losing team that had grown comfortable. Instead the message was clear- Eli was above the rest of the Giants and not part of the losing.
Tom Coughlin final press conference kinda summed up this by attitude saying “Eli, it’s not you. it’s us”. This attitude has infected the organization and its fan base. Eli was absolved from any connection to the results of the team he leads
Contract wise the Giants continued to give Eli a free pass despite the losing and treat him as the one of the elite in the game. The Giants never even had a contentious negotiation with him as they gave a 4-year extension in the offseason of 2015 that made him the #3 paid in the NFL just behind Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson by under a million per season. As a bonus, the Giants gave Eli a “no trade” clause just to ensure his status.
The point of no return was reached when Eli was benched for Geno Smith. In the heat of the insulting benching for Geno Smith (and it was insulting and I’m not defending that decision) what was lost on everyone was how far the Giants had gone in putting Eli above the team and how far Eli had gone as well.
Looking at the situation objectively, right or wrong the Head Coach informed the Player of a new plan for his playing time. The Player rejected this plan and instead was benched by his Head Coach. The Player holds a media session answering all manners of questions about how things occurred and why
Removing the names from the situation allows us to see more clearly. Only once you assign pre-earned status to the situation does it become acceptable for the Player to even reject this plan because it is beneath him.
Then the Player issues a statement and holds a media session and answers media questions with uncharacteristic emotion and honesty about the details of its handling.
There are a lot of players names I can insert in those spots above that would have everyone screaming for their heads.
Then what occurs is the Head Coach and General Manager are fired one game after this decision and the Player is reinstated to his starting position.
What is the message to the team? Don’t mess with Eli Manning. He is above you. Even the the GM and the HC.
It strikes me that the only time I’ve ever seen Eli Manning get emotional after any of the multitudes of losing seasons or games is after his benching. I’ve never seen him express any but the most basic vague sense of frustration. Type in Google “Eli Manning emotional” and you will only get his benching.
It also strikes me that Eli gave details about his benching. How he was told, who told him, what he was told and even talked about the streak and the thinking behind the McAdoo plan. He gave His feelings and his thoughts as he cried in front of the media and his teammates in the locker room. This was the only time I can recall him doing this. This certainly wasn’t his response to support his teammates who might have done the similar. Then Eli would talk about the need to keep things “in-house” so they don’t cause “distractions”.
Why do we know more details about this decision than virtually any other Giants decision? Eli made it so and created a massive media controversy out of it. What Manning could have done was say nothing about any of that. He was benched. Accept that your head coach chose to bench you. Manning did not. He was saying he was accepting but his actions betrayed that. There’s a scenario that could have existed where all these details were never made public and all we ever knew that was McAdoo benched Eli for Geno and eventually Webb as they stated back then was the plan when the gIants were 2-7.
I would have to say in almost all situations from any other player, the above scenario would be viewed as unacceptable.
Lets be honest, Eli threw McAdoo under an uncessary bus. It was Eli he brought up the Streak and that he thought it was morally or ethically unacceptable to play football that way. That’s a judgement on your Head Coach, The reason Eli brought it up was to explain why he didn’t accept his benching,
We have our GM who cited one game from 2018 as evidence that Eli still has “it” and this year has cited only the second half of the season as evidence. Interesting, I wonder what the other players on the roster think of this evaluation and if they are held to the same lax standards and not all 16 games.
The cloud over this organization is Eli Manning. The rot is an underperforming and overpaid player who has consistently been treated above everyone else. He has been paid more than any player in NFL history and never had even an ounce of issues getting all of that money from ownership. He has barely missed a snap of playing time in his career (and I don’t mean that in an Iron Man positive streak way but in a how has he never been pulled from a game for poor play until this season) or had a viable backup drafted that could challenge him for reps and playing time. Both McAdoos hiring and firing as Head Coach were tied to his relationship to Eli.
Now we see Odell Beckham traded and as he is going out the door we are getting the leaks. The perception of Odell being traded is that he ran afoul of Eli by getting upset at his play and through to the Lil Wayne interview where his primary offense was that he didn’t support or defend Eli. It even seems a lot of people have accepted that others like Sterling Shepherd, who were “corrupted” by Odell will soon follow.
The cloud remains.
Do we really believe that the players don’t see the above. They don’t know we have an overpaid, underperforming player at the most important position? That he has no problem getting, that he has no challenges to his job or playing time? The GMs, HCs are fired and star players will get traded. That’s the cloud. That’s the rot. This is no longer a merit based team where every player is treated the same. Type in Eli Manning Frustrated into Google and you do not quotes from him being frustrated with losing but instead players being frustrated with his play.
And if you can’t see what is plainly obvious, then let’s look at big picture
Twitter › PaulHembo
Eli Manning since 2012
64 QB losses (most in NFL)
134 turnovers (most in NFL)
$131M cap hit (most in NFL)
from the keyboard
anyone who works in any competitive field understands that sentiment and its not ideal.
the personal attacks on him are a bit much.
Through at least 2016 Eli Manning was playing the same as he ever was. He led them on numerous 4Q wins and played as good of a first half as he ever has in GB.
Was he the reason for the mutiny in '17 and lackluster season last year? Maybe. His play was certainly a contributing factor. But the rot started well before that - as evidenced by the defense literally going over a cliff each of those 2 seasons, and in total 3 of the last 4.
With the line fixed, we will see if Eli really can still play at a high level
I got through about 3 paragraphs of this and quit.
I thank BBI for my profits. Poor Odell is gone..... boo freakity hoo.
Thats the thing.. with the amount of resources it takes for him to look decent how can you field a good defense? We have tons of resources we had to use to get him this OL.. even then we still need to spend even more to get a C and a RT.. Eli will also have the best RB in the league behind him to keep the LB honest.. He has a first round TE, another TE where we spent a good chunk of money. We have a 2nd Rd WR and then another one who is costing us about 10-12M this year.. if everything around him needs to be perfect for him to play decent then why pay him the $23M..
No matter how you put it.. There is Eli then there is everyone else for this franchise.. whether it be Cruz, Nicks, JPP, OBJ, Tuck, TC, JR, KG..
He'll also have two more Super Bowls than most QB's in NFL history and 1 more than nearly all of them with very few exceptions.
He's in a position to reach that unfortunate "milestone" by way of his durability and longevity.
I really hope we find our next QB sooner than later, but I'm getting tired of the way people are fucking trashing our own guy left and right and trying to now turn his career into nothing more than the track record of some mediocre loser.
Comical
Of probably 10,694, just from this fucking schmuck.
The levels of horseshit at this point are just way, way beyond....
We all know we need to find the next guy.
The only thing Eli Manning is guilty of is wanting to play football.
Of probably 10,694, just from this fucking schmuck.
I think Les in TO is the President. He made a comment in DGs presser that Eli dilfered us to 2 SBs. I cant believe he hasnt been banned yet either.
He also used to go on and on about Asante Samuel dropping an easy INT too......
However, I think the OP's take is a lot closer to the truth than that of many Eli enthusiasts who think Eli is just a solid OL away from playing like an above average QB.
The Giants should have moved on from Eli.
You know what’s going to happen? You will see lots of 5-yard checkdowns on Third and eight, after opposing defenses stack the box to limit the run on the first two downs, and Tate and Barkley will each have 100 catches for 500 yards by game 8. The reaction will be, Eli needs a vertical threat, not his fault nobody can get separation!!! Oops. And the defense needs to play 40 min a game and still not allow any points in the 4th quarter!!
I am not reacting to Gettleman’s press conference speak until the draft. If we don’t bring in any viable alternatives, then we will likely never know if Eli was ever a problem here during these last few years. I think the organization wants it that way, and most fans probably feel the same.
He also used to go on and on about Asante Samuel dropping an easy INT too......
And Favre's heroic 2009 nfc Championship game loss.
You know what’s going to happen? You will see lots of 5-yard checkdowns on Third and eight, after opposing defenses stack the box to limit the run on the first two downs, and Tate and Barkley will each have 100 catches for 500 yards by game 8. The reaction will be, Eli needs a vertical threat, not his fault nobody can get separation!!! Oops. And the defense needs to play 40 min a game and still not allow any points in the 4th quarter!!
Its always been Eli's fault for you. FFS. You could be twosteps brother and I wouldnt be shocked.
He also used to go on and on about Asante Samuel dropping an easy INT too......
Oh yes... I remember that well.
A lot of Giants fans never deserved Eli.
Mara is dying to stand on that super bowl stage one more time and, ala Pat Bowlen, shout, “This one’s for Eli!”
The number of threads and comments here about how this or that move makes Eli Manning FEEL are unbelievable.
This is the NFL. For good and for bad, the mission is "Just win, baby".
I was when I argued for Eli all those years and he was criticized after every single throw
I was when I argued for dismissing TC
I was when I argued against hiring McAdoo
I was when I argued to trade Odell last offseason
Always a good sign when people can only personally attack you but not your argument.
2. Since 2012, the Giants have ranked 20th in defense in PPG, with 2016 them coming in 2 to alter the stats.
All Eli's fault though.
Paul Hembekides
‏Verified account @PaulHembo
Eli Manning since 2012
64 QB losses (most in NFL)
134 turnovers (most in NFL)
$131M cap hit (most in NFL)
12:04 PM - 18 Mar 2019
Answering questions about your future with the team with statements like "i don't know" meant Odell is either
- dumb
-calculated
He is not dumb, so i'll go with calculated. He knew exactly what he was doing.
You're overthinking this. The problems here stem from bad drafting and bad luck. Pugh, Richburg & Flowers were all misses. Geoff Schwartz was banged up all the time. Obviously Pugh was too. Eli Apple was a miss. Collins is a good player, but flawed and also injury prone.
Reese failed miserably in finding depth later on in the draft and with UDFA's. Bad luck happens - Olivier Vernon was 25-26 when he signed here with no injury history. How'd that turn out for us? (ties in to Terps point of not putting your eggs in the big contract basket)
Reese and Benny Mac never had the same vision to a point where Reese was signing guys and they weren't touching the field (Ellison) That is fucking embarrassing.
Stop trying to pin blame on one guy. Its stupid. Francesa may be a moron most of the time but he wasn't wrong yesterday when he said this franchise's failures to fix the offensive line have plagued them.
When you're routinely bad for 7/8 years a lot of things went wrong.
The number of threads and comments here about how this or that move makes Eli Manning FEEL are unbelievable.
This is the NFL. For good and for bad, the mission is "Just win, baby".
FFS, whats up with people named Jim!!!
You're a Browns fans.... so your opinion is literally worthless.
This.
Quote:
Paul Hembekides
‏Verified account @PaulHembo
Eli Manning since 2012
64 QB losses (most in NFL)
134 turnovers (most in NFL)
$131M cap hit (most in NFL)
12:04 PM - 18 Mar 2019
that was all you needed to say from your post.
You just wrote two pages about Eli being the reason the team has been bad.
A person with any semblance of intelligence should know there is never just one problem on a team.
so much time used to write a post that misses this very basic point.