Eli Manning IS the Problem. He is the cloud. He is the rot.
In the aftermath of the Odell Beckham trade, BBI seemed to expel a collective sign of relief that the “cloud” hanging over the Giants has passed and that there had been a “rot” that set in for a culture of accepting losing.
It is my contention that the “cloud” hanging over this organization is Eli and the “rot” that set in began when the New York Giants began worrying about things other than winning and putting Eli Mannings concerns and needs above everyone else’s.
It is not my contention to argue about the Beckham trade as it’s possible to make the right move for the wrong reasons. The Beckham trade is irrelevant to this argument and I am not arguing for or against that trade.
One of the things that struck me during the BBI aftermath was a poster who told the story of the Bill Parcells and Phil Simms sideline fight. The new detail was that this was over a single play call In a game that they were winning big. I have also heard Phil Simms tell a similar story about Parcells and there was a constant theme of Parcells placing winning above all else and you create that environment by holding everyone accountable and placing no one player beyond that and never resting on accolades.
The New York Giants have placed Eli Manning above everyone else and he is treated differently and the Giants feel Eli is maybe owed something for winning the two Super Bowls.
A few examples stand out -
The Giants hired Ben McAdoo largely on “continuity” with the “quarterback” as said by John Mara at the opening press conference. The Giants at that point had 3 non-playoff years, had already suffered through the 2013 debacle that saw Mara call for an entire new offense and system and the promotion of a young OC with very limited success was all about Eli’s familiarity with the system and the progression of the offense numbers in the 2 years from bottoming out in 2013. Ignored was the fact that it was due to the arrival of Odell and that it never reached the heights of the Gilbride offense.
Despite the fact that the Giants were losing, the comfortableness of their 35 year old QB was what made the Head Coaching decision.
This was the time to overhaul the culture of a losing team that had grown comfortable. Instead the message was clear- Eli was above the rest of the Giants and not part of the losing.
Tom Coughlin final press conference kinda summed up this by attitude saying “Eli, it’s not you. it’s us”. This attitude has infected the organization and its fan base. Eli was absolved from any connection to the results of the team he leads
Contract wise the Giants continued to give Eli a free pass despite the losing and treat him as the one of the elite in the game. The Giants never even had a contentious negotiation with him as they gave a 4-year extension in the offseason of 2015 that made him the #3 paid in the NFL just behind Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson by under a million per season. As a bonus, the Giants gave Eli a “no trade” clause just to ensure his status.
The point of no return was reached when Eli was benched for Geno Smith. In the heat of the insulting benching for Geno Smith (and it was insulting and I’m not defending that decision) what was lost on everyone was how far the Giants had gone in putting Eli above the team and how far Eli had gone as well.
Looking at the situation objectively, right or wrong the Head Coach informed the Player of a new plan for his playing time. The Player rejected this plan and instead was benched by his Head Coach. The Player holds a media session answering all manners of questions about how things occurred and why
Removing the names from the situation allows us to see more clearly. Only once you assign pre-earned status to the situation does it become acceptable for the Player to even reject this plan because it is beneath him.
Then the Player issues a statement and holds a media session and answers media questions with uncharacteristic emotion and honesty about the details of its handling.
There are a lot of players names I can insert in those spots above that would have everyone screaming for their heads.
Then what occurs is the Head Coach and General Manager are fired one game after this decision and the Player is reinstated to his starting position.
What is the message to the team? Don’t mess with Eli Manning. He is above you. Even the the GM and the HC.
It strikes me that the only time I’ve ever seen Eli Manning get emotional after any of the multitudes of losing seasons or games is after his benching. I’ve never seen him express any but the most basic vague sense of frustration. Type in Google “Eli Manning emotional” and you will only get his benching.
It also strikes me that Eli gave details about his benching. How he was told, who told him, what he was told and even talked about the streak and the thinking behind the McAdoo plan. He gave His feelings and his thoughts as he cried in front of the media and his teammates in the locker room. This was the only time I can recall him doing this. This certainly wasn’t his response to support his teammates who might have done the similar. Then Eli would talk about the need to keep things “in-house” so they don’t cause “distractions”.
Why do we know more details about this decision than virtually any other Giants decision? Eli made it so and created a massive media controversy out of it. What Manning could have done was say nothing about any of that. He was benched. Accept that your head coach chose to bench you. Manning did not. He was saying he was accepting but his actions betrayed that. There’s a scenario that could have existed where all these details were never made public and all we ever knew that was McAdoo benched Eli for Geno and eventually Webb as they stated back then was the plan when the gIants were 2-7.
I would have to say in almost all situations from any other player, the above scenario would be viewed as unacceptable.
Lets be honest, Eli threw McAdoo under an uncessary bus. It was Eli he brought up the Streak and that he thought it was morally or ethically unacceptable to play football that way. That’s a judgement on your Head Coach, The reason Eli brought it up was to explain why he didn’t accept his benching,
We have our GM who cited one game from 2018 as evidence that Eli still has “it” and this year has cited only the second half of the season as evidence. Interesting, I wonder what the other players on the roster think of this evaluation and if they are held to the same lax standards and not all 16 games.
The cloud over this organization is Eli Manning. The rot is an underperforming and overpaid player who has consistently been treated above everyone else. He has been paid more than any player in NFL history and never had even an ounce of issues getting all of that money from ownership. He has barely missed a snap of playing time in his career (and I don’t mean that in an Iron Man positive streak way but in a how has he never been pulled from a game for poor play until this season) or had a viable backup drafted that could challenge him for reps and playing time. Both McAdoos hiring and firing as Head Coach were tied to his relationship to Eli.
Now we see Odell Beckham traded and as he is going out the door we are getting the leaks. The perception of Odell being traded is that he ran afoul of Eli by getting upset at his play and through to the Lil Wayne interview where his primary offense was that he didn’t support or defend Eli. It even seems a lot of people have accepted that others like Sterling Shepherd, who were “corrupted” by Odell will soon follow.
The cloud remains.
Do we really believe that the players don’t see the above. They don’t know we have an overpaid, underperforming player at the most important position? That he has no problem getting, that he has no challenges to his job or playing time? The GMs, HCs are fired and star players will get traded. That’s the cloud. That’s the rot. This is no longer a merit based team where every player is treated the same. Type in Eli Manning Frustrated into Google and you do not quotes from him being frustrated with losing but instead players being frustrated with his play.
And if you can’t see what is plainly obvious, then let’s look at big picture
Twitter › PaulHembo
Eli Manning since 2012
64 QB losses (most in NFL)
134 turnovers (most in NFL)
$131M cap hit (most in NFL)
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You're making excuses for a player that is being paid like he can carry the offense.
If you listen to the narrative surrounding Eli, one of the most common phrases you hear is "Eli can still play if..." I agree, Eli can still play. If you put him on the 1989 49ers I'm sure he'd do a good job.
But he isn't on the '89 49ers. He's being paid like he's an elite player that can carry the offense, but he isn't elite and he can't carry the offense. If that's the case, the logical thing to do is to replace him with a younger and cheaper alternative. At least in that scenario the money recouped can be reinvested elsewhere into the roster.
There is no purely football reason to keep Eli here at that salary in 2019. It's about nostalgia and sentimentality. Shit I get it...I'm rooting for him to kick ass and finish with a bang. But if I remove my fandom it doesn't make sense at all, and IMO that's how a front office should operate.
I don't think that there is a single post you've made or argument that you've made that doesn't mention "at his salary". I still don't think that there's been any indication that his salary has held them back from any specific moves. And, if it hasn't, then it's irrelevant. What should be more relevant is can they get better performance by anyone currently available. I honestly don't think so. And not because of any particular affinity for Eli because, frankly, I could just as soon see Lauletta in his place if they wanted to make the strategic move for better position for a better QB. But, since they want to also win as much as they can while still trying to build for the future, Eli seems the best choice to me.
I still don't think that there's been any indication that his salary has held them back from any specific moves.
I haven’t seen that either. Who have we missed out on that wasn’t damaged goods (or close to it) or simply opted to play elsewhere?
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In comment 14347085 Britt in VA said:
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as the rest of this thread.
Here are 30 minutes of Eli Manning throws and plays from THIS season.
I do not see a complete lack of mobility. Nor do I see a guy who can't make throws if not protected.
Maybe some of you should revisit this: Link - ( New Window )
Some narratives are etched in stone
No, they won't bother.
Because if they did, they'd realize half the sh-t they say is dead wrong.
The guy doesn't need a perfect pocket. And the majority of plays in the clip above the pocket is dirty. He rolls out, he moves around in the pocket, he climbs the ladder, and delivers the ball.
If he's not THE problem then the Giants should be competitive.
Sounds like a win-win.
My only comment on this will be it sounds like from a lot of the supportive posts that Eli needs things to be perfect to succeed. He needs a good OL, he needs Barkley (or a good running game), he needs quality receivers etc.
Maybe that's true of all QB's but I think this should be the goal, to get a QB who doesn't need EVERYTHING to be perfect for them to succeed.
Let's face it, he's old, so he'll need more to succeed now than he did in his prime, so whether he still has gas in the tank or not, he could be upgraded and that succession plan should be in motion.
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"have saddled him with more terrible defenses than I can even count at this point." Totally agreed with the exception of 2016. That team made the playoffs b/c that defense was legit. They didn't make it b/c Eli and the offense carried them.
Now, imagine if they gave that defense to HC Coughlin, instead of HC Baggy suit guy.
I took a bath that year - I thought for sure the Giants were going to make a monster run.
I still think they would have had DRC not got hurt right before half time.
The team can concurrently rebuild while trying to field a roster that can compete next season.
The team can concurrently hang on to Eli while they search for his successor.
Instead, they only view it as mutually exclusive.
He truly believes that kind of utter shit.
It is also why he thinks having multiple mobile QB's on rookie contracts that can be used interchangably would be successful too.
There's a certain level of delusion there that is borderline insanity.
You of all people are going to call me delusional? That's funny.
So, then we will all know for sure.
What ever will we bitch and argue about then?
This is Manning's mission. He's the perfect guy for this moment. Eli's got this.
So relax, have a cream soda. Say one more word and I swear I'll stab you in the neck with a pencil.
If he's not THE problem then the Giants should be competitive.
Sounds like a win-win.
My only comment on this will be it sounds like from a lot of the supportive posts that Eli needs things to be perfect to succeed. He needs a good OL, he needs Barkley (or a good running game), he needs quality receivers etc.
Maybe that's true of all QB's but I think this should be the goal, to get a QB who doesn't need EVERYTHING to be perfect for them to succeed.
Let's face it, he's old, so he'll need more to succeed now than he did in his prime, so whether he still has gas in the tank or not, he could be upgraded and that succession plan should be in motion.
Not perfect, just a reasonably good OL, especially up the middle where he’s been getting killed. That was always his strength; the ability to step up into the pocket. That opportunity has been lost for at least a half a decade, for the most part.
The team can concurrently rebuild while trying to field a roster that can compete next season.
The team can concurrently hang on to Eli while they search for his successor.
Instead, they only view it as mutually exclusive.
I don't think this is accurate. I think a fairer way to put it is that hanging on to Eli (and that's what it is now - hanging on) is not the best way for the team to compete.
So you didn't post that 53 players all taking up the same cap space is a viable model to win with good coaching??
No, but you're also not addressing the fact that there has always been a high level of variance in Eli's performances throughout his career, probably more so than any other high level QB I can think of. He had two playoff runs for the ages, but he's also been awful at times even with good supporting casts.
Anyway, we will be arguing about this for a long time. Cheers.
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You of all people are going to call me delusional? That's funny.
So you didn't post that 53 players all taking up the same cap space is a viable model to win with good coaching??
I did. It's an academic exercise to illustrate a point...rosters around the NFL are too top heavy when it comes to the salary cap, and that comes at the cost of quality depth and roster flexibility year to year. In a league where injuries are such a major determinant of wins and losses, it seems inefficient. It probably shouldn't come as a surprise that New England tends to have a more even cap disbursement across the roster than most or all other teams. They get this concept.
That has nothing to do with it being funny for you to call me delusional. I can't remember the last thing related to this team that you've been right on.
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has the overarching theme correct - the Giants, specifically Mara, want a fairytale ending for Eli. And come hell or high water, they are determined to give Eli every chance to get there.
Mara is dying to stand on that super bowl stage one more time and, ala Pat Bowlen, shout, “This one’s for Eli!”
I'm not sure why you would not want him to stand on that stage, but whatever. You seems to have your own priorities and you are certainly entitled to them.
It's a probability call. Sure, that would be great to hoist another trophy. But at 38, and with the rest of the holes the team has, that is highly unlikely. And a waste of cap dollars - in my view...
If you listen to the narrative surrounding Eli, one of the most common phrases you hear is "Eli can still play if..." I agree, Eli can still play. If you put him on the 1989 49ers I'm sure he'd do a good job.
But he isn't on the '89 49ers. He's being paid like he's an elite player that can carry the offense, but he isn't elite and he can't carry the offense. If that's the case, the logical thing to do is to replace him with a younger and cheaper alternative. At least in that scenario the money recouped can be reinvested elsewhere into the roster.
There is no purely football reason to keep Eli here at that salary in 2019. It's about nostalgia and sentimentality. Shit I get it...I'm rooting for him to kick ass and finish with a bang. But if I remove my fandom it doesn't make sense at all, and IMO that's how a front office should operate.
I will always respect you as a football poster Terps, and I totally get the salary thing, however some of us rate his capability at this point higher than you do (and some others).
We can argue that point all day subjectively, however one thing posters that take your position seem to not be able to admit is the fact that it is impossible to fully and objectively rate what his actual rate of deterioration is based on how bad the OL is, and the fact that he has now changed offensive system 2x in the last 2 years. That stuff matters. And we have seen improved QB play behind improved blocking and 8+ games into the new system.
The fact is that you have his contemporaries at the same age and older playing at high levels. So what's the difference? Did Eli completely fall off of a cliff? Or do the things I mentioned above actually have a tangible (and negative) effect on his play and his offense.
Does anyone REALLY want Bridgewater/Foles/Tannehill/Fitzpatrick here as some stop gap QB? Especially if we have improved the OL even more, the system is taking hold and we actually start showing a good offense again with our possible HOF QB (even though he is close to the end of his career)? I certainly DO NOT. And those of us that bring up these points are all on the same page that we need to bring another QB into the fold for when he is gone.
Everyone acts like there is some easy formula to replacing your franchise QB. Well, there ain't.
I don't think that portion - like me - hate Eli. I've never been an Eli fan - for a variety of reasons - but I hold Mara et al COMPLETELY responsible for this situation.
Eli just wants to continue to play football, and get paid.
I don't know if this is something that will magically come back with a revived OL, or if this is something that is actually mental with him. He's been accustomed to needing to get the ball out so quick in the last few years, that I'm curious as to his internal clock now, with a pocket that should hold up better.
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You're making excuses for a player that is being paid like he can carry the offense.
If you listen to the narrative surrounding Eli, one of the most common phrases you hear is "Eli can still play if..." I agree, Eli can still play. If you put him on the 1989 49ers I'm sure he'd do a good job.
But he isn't on the '89 49ers. He's being paid like he's an elite player that can carry the offense, but he isn't elite and he can't carry the offense. If that's the case, the logical thing to do is to replace him with a younger and cheaper alternative. At least in that scenario the money recouped can be reinvested elsewhere into the roster.
There is no purely football reason to keep Eli here at that salary in 2019. It's about nostalgia and sentimentality. Shit I get it...I'm rooting for him to kick ass and finish with a bang. But if I remove my fandom it doesn't make sense at all, and IMO that's how a front office should operate.
I will always respect you as a football poster Terps, and I totally get the salary thing, however some of us rate his capability at this point higher than you do (and some others).
We can argue that point all day subjectively, however one thing posters that take your position seem to not be able to admit is the fact that it is impossible to fully and objectively rate what his actual rate of deterioration is based on how bad the OL is, and the fact that he has now changed offensive system 2x in the last 2 years. That stuff matters. And we have seen improved QB play behind improved blocking and 8+ games into the new system.
The fact is that you have his contemporaries at the same age and older playing at high levels. So what's the difference? Did Eli completely fall off of a cliff? Or do the things I mentioned above actually have a tangible (and negative) effect on his play and his offense.
Does anyone REALLY want Bridgewater/Foles/Tannehill/Fitzpatrick here as some stop gap QB? Especially if we have improved the OL even more, the system is taking hold and we actually start showing a good offense again with our possible HOF QB (even though he is close to the end of his career)? I certainly DO NOT. And those of us that bring up these points are all on the same page that we need to bring another QB into the fold for when he is gone.
Everyone acts like there is some easy formula to replacing your franchise QB. Well, there ain't.
Good post Johnny, well said.
You have to want to replace him first. I don't think the Giants are at all interested in that.
Neither passes the smell test. Yet this conversation is largely dominated by those who try to shout down those in the middle.
However, Rodgers is getting $30m, Wilson is going to get that and more. There's a lot worse things than paying Eli $23m in 2019, especially when you think that $6m of that is a sunk cost anyway.
What I do think and hope Eli can do is play very effectively behind a quality OL. I think he can step up and post a 100+ QBR season based on last year.
To be clear, I'd take the opportunity to draft a successor if it presented itself (and I think DG has been clear on that too) but for now I don't feel we're evaluating Eli on something that happened 7 years ago. We're evaluating him on a second half of the season where he looked like a 100 rated QB.
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Did he forget how to play his position in under 2 calendar years
No, but you're also not addressing the fact that there has always been a high level of variance in Eli's performances throughout his career, probably more so than any other high level QB I can think of. He had two playoff runs for the ages, but he's also been awful at times even with good supporting casts.
Of course, Eli has always been enigmatic - I think that goes without saying.
But he was really good in 2015 - two years after he led the NFL in turnovers and looked terrible in the process. The 2013 team was an utter disaster and although 32 year old Eli Manning played his part - the state of the OL at that point was becoming truly pathetic.
We had Brandon Jacobs out of retirement not even wearing his #27 on that team... we had Peyton Hillis and Michael Cox getting meaningful carries. Brandon Myers was our TE and Louis Murphy was a starting WR.
It was a truly terrible offense. The talent around Eli was pitiful.
The Giants org failed Eli in a lot of ways and did a really poor job of sustaining his career/maximizing it.
Neither passes the smell test. Yet this conversation is largely dominated by those who try to shout down those in the middle.
Eric our GM is one of these 2 categories.
I've been saying this for years. It really sucks. But the sad truth is there's no undoing it now, and Eli is a 38 year old QB at the end of several years of beatings. He isn't the same QB.
However, Rodgers is getting $30m, Wilson is going to get that and more. There's a lot worse things than paying Eli $23m in 2019, especially when you think that $6m of that is a sunk cost anyway.
What I do think and hope Eli can do is play very effectively behind a quality OL. I think he can step up and post a 100+ QBR season based on last year.
To be clear, I'd take the opportunity to draft a successor if it presented itself (and I think DG has been clear on that too) but for now I don't feel we're evaluating Eli on something that happened 7 years ago. We're evaluating him on a second half of the season where he looked like a 100 rated QB.
I think that in part his immobility is overstated. Much of it is exacerbated by having a porous line. He already has one of the fastest if not the fastest get off times in the league purely because he has to. With a better line, he wold have less need to be mobile and therefore we would not notice it as much.
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Everyone acts like there is some easy formula to replacing your franchise QB. Well, there ain't.
You have to want to replace him first. I don't think the Giants are at all interested in that.
That may be true to some degree with ownership, but we can only speculate. I'm pretty sure Gettleman knows he needs to have have a plan (or multiple plans) to replace him, and sooner rather than later. I mean you may or may not like him as a GM but he would not be where he is if he didn't. And I'm sure he doesn't want to get it wrong. We are in a precarious spot here. I totally get trying to win with your current franchise QB while rebuilding the team and also working diligently on finding his (valid) replacement. But it's a huge decision that we don't want to force.
That is horse shit. No one is saying that Eli needs everything to be perfect.
All most Eli supporters have stated is that he could still perform at a productive level if the offensive wasn't complete dog shit for nearly a decade.
There is an enormous difference between not having an impossibly bad offensive line for nearly a decade and needing everything to be perfect.
And that says nothing of how bad the defense has been for the better part of the last decade as well.
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The Giants org failed Eli in a lot of ways and did a really poor job of sustaining his career/maximizing it.
I've been saying this for years. It really sucks. But the sad truth is there's no undoing it now, and Eli is a 38 year old QB at the end of several years of beatings. He isn't the same QB.
I don't think many would disagree with you. My perspective is still that for this one year (and I would include for last year as well considering the quality of player we picked versus all others) he is the best available option. I want my newly drafted rookie starting from day 1 next year with Eli off the books. (The last part was to sate your salary obsession.)
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The Giants org failed Eli in a lot of ways and did a really poor job of sustaining his career/maximizing it.
I've been saying this for years. It really sucks. But the sad truth is there's no undoing it now, and Eli is a 38 year old QB at the end of several years of beatings. He isn't the same QB.
He's not - and my preferred route is to move on now. I don't want to see an extension or see this thing continue to be prolonged longer than it needs to.
I'm just tired of seeing him take all the heat for mistakes the organization made or get kicked out the door like some run of the mill JAG when it's not all his fault.
Hopefully the next guy is in the fold by the time we hit camp and we can move forward sooner than later.
Neither passes the smell test. Yet this conversation is largely dominated by those who try to shout down those in the middle.
I wouldn't characterize it that way. Stripped down, this is really a very good debate about reason vs emotion.
And for the last 3-4 years, I this emotion has dominated decision making at Jints Central. And likely at the expense of getting better for the long term...
Now we are plunged into quite a bit of uncertainty at QB this year and going forward.
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most annoying thing about the endless debates on Eli Manning are the extremists who either insist (1) Eli shares no/very little of the responsibility for the team's poor play, or (2) all of the other issues are mostly moot because Eli is largely to blame.
Neither passes the smell test. Yet this conversation is largely dominated by those who try to shout down those in the middle.
I wouldn't characterize it that way. Stripped down, this is really a very good debate about reason vs emotion.
And for the last 3-4 years, I this emotion has dominated decision making at Jints Central. And likely at the expense of getting better for the long term...
With respect, I think that's a load of condescending bullshit. You might disagree with their reasoning but people have provided cogent arguments in support of retention. Likewise, there's a ton of arguments by some, including you I would surmise, that are largely fueled by reflexive and visceral despite.
Oh really? And what's the excuse of the running game sucking since SB46? What's the excuse of watching the #2 pick in the draft RB getting hit with 1st contact from the defense an average of literally 6 inches after receiving the handoff? That's not even a HALF of a step before contact. Do you have eyes? Are you going to argue that we actually had a solid OL? Really?
Now we are plunged into quite a bit of uncertainty at QB this year and going forward.
See...so it really did work out for the best. We got the best player and made the best choice, apparently all because of unfounded attachment to Eli. Maybe the attachment is bad but, omg we were so freaking lucky to have it.
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This refrain is repeated year after year. But the offensive line is a great excuse, and has been since SB46. It's been truly abysmal.
Oh really? And what's the excuse of the running game sucking since SB46? What's the excuse of watching the #2 pick in the draft RB getting hit with 1st contact from the defense an average of literally 6 inches after receiving the handoff? That's not even a HALF of a step before contact. Do you have eyes? Are you going to argue that we actually had a solid OL? Really?
If I wasn't clear, I'm saying it IS a legitimate excuse. We're in agreement.
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The Giants org failed Eli in a lot of ways and did a really poor job of sustaining his career/maximizing it.
I've been saying this for years. It really sucks. But the sad truth is there's no undoing it now, and Eli is a 38 year old QB at the end of several years of beatings. He isn't the same QB.
I don't think many would disagree with you. My perspective is still that for this one year (and I would include for last year as well considering the quality of player we picked versus all others) he is the best available option. I want my newly drafted rookie starting from day 1 next year with Eli off the books. (The last part was to sate your salary obsession.)
No rookie starts from "day one". They will at least have a veteran QB presence on the roster.
As recent examples, the Jets signed both Bridewater (15 mil) and McCown (10 mil), the Bills signed McCarron (10 mil), the Cards signed Bradford (15 mil) and the Browns traded a 3rd for Tyrod Taylor. The Bears signed Glennon for 3 yrs 45 mil, the Chiefs kept Alex Smith, the Eagles had kept Bradford and only traded him a week before season when they knew what they had in Wentz, the Rams resigned Keenum on a 1 year tender.
Which means the Giants will either waste valuable time & dollars pursuing a vet QB next offseason or use this once again as a reason to bring back Eli to "mentor".
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This refrain is repeated year after year. But the offensive line is a great excuse, and has been since SB46. It's been truly abysmal.
Oh really? And what's the excuse of the running game sucking since SB46? What's the excuse of watching the #2 pick in the draft RB getting hit with 1st contact from the defense an average of literally 6 inches after receiving the handoff? That's not even a HALF of a step before contact. Do you have eyes? Are you going to argue that we actually had a solid OL? Really?
I think he is agreeing with you...lol
Just think of the opportunities to win we would have had we gotten a running QB. Think of all the incredibility great OL men unfairly accused of sucking like a turnstile in a vacuum and run out of town because Eli couldn't take off and go break his leg or blow out his knee like the running QBs over the last 10 years have.
Lets trade our entire draft to get a 5'10 QB who's strongest feature is his ability to take off and run for 65 yards. At least he will provide excitement while the defense gives up 35 points per game because we have zero pass rush.
Honestly I am more frustrated by the haters than by Eli's bad performances behind horrible OLs with some of the leading PASS DROPPERS, Route Blowers and Tipped Ballers in the NFL.
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Mara probably should have been the adult in the room and ended it after 2017. Had that happened we'd be talking about Darnold at QB (no way we take Barkley if Eli was off the roster) and loading up the roster around him this year and next. The planets aligned - 2nd overall pick in a great QB draft, new GM, new coach, new OC...that was the time to make the change. The only confounder was Eli - Mara should have known better.
Now we are plunged into quite a bit of uncertainty at QB this year and going forward.
See...so it really did work out for the best. We got the best player and made the best choice, apparently all because of unfounded attachment to Eli. Maybe the attachment is bad but, omg we were so freaking lucky to have it.
I don't agree.
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In comment 14347356 Go Terps said:
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The Giants org failed Eli in a lot of ways and did a really poor job of sustaining his career/maximizing it.
I've been saying this for years. It really sucks. But the sad truth is there's no undoing it now, and Eli is a 38 year old QB at the end of several years of beatings. He isn't the same QB.
I don't think many would disagree with you. My perspective is still that for this one year (and I would include for last year as well considering the quality of player we picked versus all others) he is the best available option. I want my newly drafted rookie starting from day 1 next year with Eli off the books. (The last part was to sate your salary obsession.)
No rookie starts from "day one". They will at least have a veteran QB presence on the roster.
As recent examples, the Jets signed both Bridewater (15 mil) and McCown (10 mil), the Bills signed McCarron (10 mil), the Cards signed Bradford (15 mil) and the Browns traded a 3rd for Tyrod Taylor. The Bears signed Glennon for 3 yrs 45 mil, the Chiefs kept Alex Smith, the Eagles had kept Bradford and only traded him a week before season when they knew what they had in Wentz, the Rams resigned Keenum on a 1 year tender.
Which means the Giants will either waste valuable time & dollars pursuing a vet QB next offseason or use this once again as a reason to bring back Eli to "mentor".
okay, let's say day 2. We had 4 rookie QB's this year who didn't really get mentored and got tons of game experience. I'm sure if you go back through time you can find others. Plus we have Tanney. We dpon't need Eli next year andgiven the state of the contract, it would be foolish to have him.
All his "gunslinger" mistakes historically were when he had one of forced / rushed / lazy footwork. He was never mobile but he had light feet and AWESOME pocket fluidity.
HE HAS LOST HIS FEET - he has lost that pocket fluidity.
Look back at one of my favorite Eli games. He was so eff-ing tough. His protection was breaking down ALL game against a great D. But watch his feet, constantly hopping, bouncing, giving the play that extra 1-2 secs. for example 3:30, 8:30, 9:40, 9:58...
No one can honestly say that those are the feet you've seen the last two years. So yes the line was bad, but he needs an all pro line at this stage for his heavy feet.
This was jerry's biggest failing. Poor scouting on the lineman he did draft, ignoring it in FA, not being honest about his picks, and instead giving him all these skill position toys.
So one thing that Gettlemen said, I agree with. All of these moves aren't in a vacuum. I just disagree with his conclusion. This line will never be at the level in the short term where we can be truly competitive with 2019 Eli.
SF NFC title game - 3:30, 8:30, 9:40, 9:58... - ( New Window )
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In comment 14347393 Go Terps said:
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Mara probably should have been the adult in the room and ended it after 2017. Had that happened we'd be talking about Darnold at QB (no way we take Barkley if Eli was off the roster) and loading up the roster around him this year and next. The planets aligned - 2nd overall pick in a great QB draft, new GM, new coach, new OC...that was the time to make the change. The only confounder was Eli - Mara should have known better.
Now we are plunged into quite a bit of uncertainty at QB this year and going forward.
See...so it really did work out for the best. We got the best player and made the best choice, apparently all because of unfounded attachment to Eli. Maybe the attachment is bad but, omg we were so freaking lucky to have it.
I don't agree.
Well, color me shocked.
All his "gunslinger" mistakes historically were when he had one of forced / rushed / lazy footwork. He was never mobile but he had light feet and AWESOME pocket fluidity.
HE HAS LOST HIS FEET - he has lost that pocket fluidity.
Look back at one of my favorite Eli games. He was so eff-ing tough. His protection was breaking down ALL game against a great D. But watch his feet, constantly hopping, bouncing, giving the play that extra 1-2 secs. for example 3:30, 8:30, 9:40, 9:58...
No one can honestly say that those are the feet you've seen the last two years. So yes the line was bad, but he needs an all pro line at this stage for his heavy feet.
This was jerry's biggest failing. Poor scouting on the lineman he did draft, ignoring it in FA, not being honest about his picks, and instead giving him all these skill position toys.
So one thing that Gettlemen said, I agree with. All of these moves aren't in a vacuum. I just disagree with his conclusion. This line will never be at the level in the short term where we can be truly competitive with 2019 Eli. SF NFC title game - 3:30, 8:30, 9:40, 9:58... - ( New Window )
You can thank McAdoo for that. He changed his footwork.
- As he is and will be (say over 2 years), is Manning good enough, all things equal to win a championship?
- With the current trajectory of the roster (say this and next year), will this be a roster that can compliment current Manning in such away to win a championship?
- With the current trajectory of the roster, is QB one of the positions where an upgrade in performance could get the Giants closer to championship level?
What I see frankly is management and a lot of fans trying to construct a story around Manning that gets the team north of the dumpster.
As I fan, I don't care much about Manning retiring on a marginally better team for his legacy. All I care about is getting on a championship-level path ASAP.
Manning might not be as bad as his performance has indicated and much of it is not his fault. But is he the guy to build the next champion around?