The NFL Draft Report
PRO DAY RUMOR MILL
Chatter today at Tide Pro Day-Giants serious in talks with Raiders in attempt to move up for Quinnen Williams. No details, but it obviously will include #6 & other goodies
Is the best player in this draft...End of story. If we can get him, 2 years in row we will draft he best player in the draft. I think he will be better than Jerome Brown.
Yes... Quinnen Williams is elite and if you don't get Nick Bosa, Josh Allen, or Big Q then you are getting a top player not an elite player. He would be a monster for us and I would trade all day ever day as long as it doesn't include #17
I happen to think Quinnen Williams is the best player in the Draft. His quickness and dominance on the inside is truly reminiscent of Aaron Donald. Quinnen is truly a player you build your defense around.
With that being said, Quinnen is really a 3T. I'm not sure if Bettcher would really commit to a 4-3 that's built around Quinnen. We don't exactly have a lot of pieces, but if we're going to trade up for Quinnen, we must switch over to the 4-3. It would bring out the best in Quinnen.
I'm guessing this would be a draft day trade if there is any truth to it
I would assume that we are after one of the top 4 players in the draft. Kyler Murray, Nick Bosa, Josh Allen, and probably the top Giant want in Quinnen Williams.
The Giants can’t be stupid enough to give away ... Â
as unblockable. Doubt few would have an issue with them taking Q Williams with their first pick or even moving up. The devil's in the details (aka goodies)
Yes... Quinnen Williams is elite and if you don't get Nick Bosa, Josh Allen, or Big Q then you are getting a top player not an elite player. He would be a monster for us and I would trade all day ever day as long as it doesn't include #17
It should cost less than 17. Probably our second and a future 2 or 3.
The Jets traded up in a similar spot and it costs two seconds. That's the likely price...
They traded up from 6 to 3 last year and it cost 3 2nd rounders. This would probably cost us less as A) it is from 6 to 4. Also this isn't a QB heavy draft like last year.
but you'd have to think he's going to be an elite NFL pass rusher. I don't think he's that kind transcendent player.
You realize to be a team player Williams played out of position as a NG last year. How many NG have 19.5 TFL and 8 sacks! He was amazing and has big time pass rush and run stopping ability. That is why he is being called elite.
The Jets traded up in a similar spot and it costs two seconds. That's the likely price...
They traded up from 6 to 3 last year and it cost 3 2nd rounders. This would probably cost us less as A) it is from 6 to 4. Also this isn't a QB heavy draft like last year.
our trash can of 5th,6th,7th round picks. It amounts to a 20 point "overpay", but at least we won't have to get our hopes up reading about draft picks that won't ever get off the bench for us.
as unblockable. Doubt few would have an issue with them taking Q Williams with their first pick or even moving up. The devil's in the details (aka goodies)
I am in, this would be exactly what the doctor ordered for the D. I don’t see it though. It would make tremendous sense though.
trade up to 4 to get Williams and then the Jets take him right before us. There would be no possible way Gettleman would do this unless it was for a QB.
trade up to 4 to get Williams and then the Jets take him right before us. There would be no possible way Gettleman would do this unless it was for a QB.
What if they have Murray as the only QB they'd take, and then Bosa, Allen, and Williams as their only blue chips? It makes sense in that case, because no matter what they're getting the elite talent.
Can't knock this move. This would mean we would get a stud on the DL either at ER or DL proper. 6, 37, and a future 3rd to guarantee Allen or Williams over White? That's a tough call...
way, even for Williams. The cost will be astronomical, and we have a ton of holes. Stay put or trade down to get assets next year we can use to move up for a QB.
stated the obvious - He's going before the Raiders pick.
Think he'll get by the Jets. Heck Cards might even grab him.
Jets could easily take Josh Allen. If our fall out on this is we get Josh Allen sold! Or Nick Bosa Sold! To me this is a top 4 draft and we pick 6th. Move up and get one of the elites.
stated the obvious - He's going before the Raiders pick.
Think he'll get by the Jets. Heck Cards might even grab him.
Jets could easily take Josh Allen. If our fall out on this is we get Josh Allen sold! Or Nick Bosa Sold! To me this is a top 4 draft and we pick 6th. Move up and get one of the elites.
I agree. This would be ballsier than pretending that Devin White is the same prospect as Josh Allen...
You guys with the trading of next year’s 1st are crazy Â
4th pick is 1800 draft points
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
And my suggestion is still within the context of Â
4th pick is 1800 draft points
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
It's not a simple calculation like that. It'd either cost more or less depending on which team wants it done more. But usually the team buying has to give up more. I think it'd be at least a second round pick in addition to the first swap.
Chanecs are one of them falls to 6. Gotta think someone is trading up for a QB
Who? You don't play chances. If you have a player that fits what you want on this team then getting him isn't a problem. But who is trading up for a QB? Jax? No way. If Haskins falls to them then that is different but still see them going in a different direction. Miami? Not according to their reports of tanking this year and everything they have done so far has supported that claim? Cincinnati? Maybe. But now we are talking about a big drop down from 3 or 4 or 5. Why would NYJ, Oak, or TB want to drop down that far? It isn't like Cincinnati is desperate like other teams. So, what team will trade up and will give up an insane amount of picks to make it worthwhile for a team in the top 5 to tradd down?
4th pick is 1800 draft points
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
We want our QB from next year group and not Rosen. We have a a way now with the new cap dollars and picks to get it done. Early posts indicated DG likes next years QBs a lot better and ELI is going to be here. Great plan by DG if it plays out.
RE: You guys with the trading of next year’s 1st are crazy Â
4th pick is 1800 draft points
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early.
Jets could easily take Josh Allen and the 49ers are probably going Nick Bosa. It isn't a reach that will happen. Worst case is we get super stud Josh Allen... Yes please.
RE: RE: You guys with the trading of next year’s 1st are crazy Â
4th pick is 1800 draft points
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early.
Is the best player in this draft...End of story. If we can get him, 2 years in row we will draft he best player in the draft. I think he will be better than Jerome Brown.
He certainly is the best non QB in this draft. He is a combination of a younger Suh and Donald.
The kid is pretty special.
If we somehow pulled it off we'd be looking at the best player in the draft 2 years in a row.
I have a lot more respect for the target a player and trade up approach than I do for the "I can't believe this guy was still there when we picked. too much value for us to pass up" passive approach.
4th pick is 1800 draft points
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early.
They wouldn't take that trade.
That is pretty definitive. Mayock is a draft geek and would love the mental gymnastics of being able to jockey around the draft with the additional ammo. The total value is a 20 point overpay so it is fair in value. They still get a premium pick with our #6.
4th pick is 1800 draft points
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early.
They wouldn't take that trade.
That is pretty definitive. Mayock is a draft geek and would love the mental gymnastics of being able to jockey around the draft with the additional ammo. The total value is a 20 point overpay so it is fair in value. They still get a premium pick with our #6.
You honestly think because some chart said the 240th pick is worth 10 points that means something? The Raiders would laugh at that deal.
I'd be surprised if you applied that chart to trades involving draft picks if they correlated to the degree people seem to think they do.
Obviously, 6th round picks aren't worth as much as 2nd round picks. That doesn't mean teams use that value chart to determine how valuable their picks are. I'm sure it's much more complicated, with considerations payed to how deep the draft is, how valuable relatively the e.g. 165th pick in 2019 is compared to that same pick in 2020. Different drafts, different players, different value picks.
I wouldn't be surprised if teams used a similar way of ranking picks generally. But for actual trades, I'd be surprised if that chart explained them all (or even most).
A good beat writer could do a whole article on that pick chart Â
We exchange their 1st the 4th pick and their 5th round pick
for our 6th pick overall our 3rd round pick
Would be exactly 1840 for 1840 this makes sense. This is definitely something I would do to get the best player in the draft 2 years in a row. It makes even more sense as they drafted Hall last year and Maurice Hurst. They love Bosa but they expect him to be taken by the 49ers. So they trade back and can still get something they want.
I would NOT make this trade with Raiders if they ask for too much Â
At #6, we should land a stud defender, like my guy LB D. White.
Yes, Q. Williams will likely be an All-Pro in the NFL. You can't teach that kinda first step quickness and power to penetrate. Definitely a way better player than D. White.
I have Bosa, Q. Williams, J. Allen as my top 3 defensive players. All 3 should dominate in the NFL. If Murray goes #1 as perceived, well, if we trade for pick #4 we could end up with J. Allen, who in my mind is a notch below Q. Williams, if only because his high, high production was limited to really one big season.
If we send #6, our 2nd round and Shep I'm not sure that is good for us. I'd rather take D. White, a top interior OL in round 2, and send Shep to New England for their #2. We have too many holes to give up top 3 round picks. IMHO.
However, I do trade #6, our 2nd 3rd rounder and a 5th for #4 if it is Q. Williams for sure. That, well, yeah that is favorable to NYG's but not to Raiders. LOL
with all the Giants' needs. I'd easily give away the 5th round picks as they won't likely amount to much. The 4th and 1 or 2 of the 5th rounders I'd probably be ok with.
Maybe a player is involved instead of a 3rd rounder?
The Jets traded 6, 37, 49, and a future second for the third pick Â
6 is worth 1,600
37 is worth 530
49 is worth 410
The value you assign a future pick is somewhat arbitrary but let's assume an average finish for the Jets at that time. The median value of a second round pick is 415.
Add that up you 2,955.
That would seem like a ridiculous overpay according to that chart. The Jets payed 34% more than the actual value according to that chart.
I'm just saying. There's really no good reason to use that chart as an indication of how teams value picks, because they don't value them in the way that chart indicates they should.
for their trade by over 600 points but that was because the Bills were lurking and the Jets knew it. So they traded up into that spot to lock it in before the draft so no one could over whelm the Colts on draft day. They paid a premium to get to the position they wanted.
for their trade by over 600 points but that was because the Bills were lurking and the Jets knew it. So they traded up into that spot to lock it in before the draft so no one could over whelm the Colts on draft day. They paid a premium to get to the position they wanted.
You're proving my point. Context matters much more than a chart of values that rarely ever captures the costs of doing business.
meant to be perfectly exact in terms of trades. Some have a premium based on demand, some are under value based on demand, but the chart is directionally accurate as a guide and used by all teams.
If all the others are blue chips which I agree then we need a super blue chip. Not all blue chips are equal. These are 3 of the best Def players I have seen in the draft at the same time. I would go up to 4 in a heart beat as long as I still had another 1st.
Don’t many mocks consider Williams going 2 overall UNLESS Cards take Murray? Let’s say Murray goes 1, Bosa 2 to SF. 3 would be Williams to the Jets. I don’t see the Jets taking Allen over Williams, I can totally be wrong though. This kind of trade could easily backfire.
Don’t many mocks consider Williams going 2 overall UNLESS Cards take Murray? Let’s say Murray goes 1, Bosa 2 to SF. 3 would be Williams to the Jets. I don’t see the Jets taking Allen over Williams, I can totally be wrong though. This kind of trade could easily backfire.
Why wouldn't they take Josh Allen... They clearly want an OLB after they missed on Anthony Barr. He is a stud and they easily can take him.
I'd love to get into the top 4. There's a steep and noticeable dropoff after Murray, Bosa, Q, and Allen. Those are the truly elite guys. 6 is like no man's land. If not up, I'd prefer to trade back as there are a lot of good players from 5 on that are all within the same ballpark of each other.
I'd love to get into the top 4. There's a steep and noticeable dropoff after Murray, Bosa, Q, and Allen. Those are the truly elite guys. 6 is like no man's land. If not up, I'd prefer to trade back as there are a lot of good players from 5 on that are all within the same ballpark of each other.
Agreed. Though I think Sweat and Greedy are the clear next 2 after a bit of a drop.
but last year he seemed to say a lot of things (like 10 things) relating to the Giants and none of them came to fruition. It was like that one year when Jordan named 15 prospects they would take and Engram wasn’t listed.
It doesn't make sense, the trade up that makes all the sense in the world is a trade up from 6 to 4 or 5 for Allen, that is what I think the Giants could do.
Williams would be great value at the 4th pick in the draft, but I Â
Get your offensive lineman. Taylor. Ford. Risner
Get your defensive lineman. Gary. Lawrence Ferrell or even Devin White(LB)
No overthinking here. No fancy moves. Build the lines
Get your offensive lineman. Taylor. Ford. Risner
Get your defensive lineman. Gary. Lawrence Ferrell or even Devin White(LB)
No overthinking here. No fancy moves. Build the lines
Yes... Quinnen Williams is elite and if you don't get Nick Bosa, Josh Allen, or Big Q then you are getting a top player not an elite player. He would be a monster for us and I would trade all day ever day as long as it doesn't include #17
I agree with this. Those three seem to be on a top shelf of their own this year. If I were to trade up, i'd prefer to trade up for Josh Allen, partly because I think Williams would have to play DE in the 3-4, and he might not reach his potential for inside pressure playing end.
About NO offering Kamara to NYG, I won't take in any rumors from him.
I'm trying to make sense of him saying that Haskins ran a 4.59 40 in the spring. Chalking it up to confusion, because it seems impossible to have happened. Sometimes with as many contacts as he has and as many prospects as he follows, it could be he gets confused about what he's hearing/heard.
I don't know.
RE: RE: RE: Would it be wise to use up quality picks, Â
Yes... Quinnen Williams is elite and if you don't get Nick Bosa, Josh Allen, or Big Q then you are getting a top player not an elite player. He would be a monster for us and I would trade all day ever day as long as it doesn't include #17
I agree with this. Those three seem to be on a top shelf of their own this year. If I were to trade up, i'd prefer to trade up for Josh Allen, partly because I think Williams would have to play DE in the 3-4, and he might not reach his potential for inside pressure playing end.
I'd rather have Josh Allen if we could move up without a significant cost.
We could however move up in the 2nd round if someone we
covet slides . If were gonna start throwing picks around
then do it for a QB . We have plenty of holes to fill .
he isn't a nose tackle . He is a great prospect but
we should keep our assets and use them wisely .
Get your offensive lineman. Taylor. Ford. Risner
Get your defensive lineman. Gary. Lawrence Ferrell or even Devin White(LB)
No overthinking here. No fancy moves. Build the lines
I agree.
I will third that I love Allen he can do it all IMO but
Jets are going Allen or Williams
Would you take Greedy Williams if he slides to 17 ?
Not me trenches !
I will be pissed. This will show that Dave G has no plan. You have a real opportunity to rebuild your team with the draft capital we have, do no waste it by trading up.
With that said, I believe this to be false, no way he will last to pick 4.
than other defensive players available at six? Doesn't seem to make sense.
Yes, all day. Quinnen Williams is a manimal. I think he's the best player in this draft as well, and I think he's in a class by himself, and no I didn't forget about Bosa. I think he's way better than Bosa, and I think Bosa is no worse than the 3rd best player in this draft.
If Williams was available via trade up, and the Giants did that, I wouldn't flinch.
than other defensive players available at six? Doesn't seem to make sense.
Yes, all day. Quinnen Williams is a manimal. I think he's the best player in this draft as well, and I think he's in a class by himself, and no I didn't forget about Bosa. I think he's way better than Bosa, and I think Bosa is no worse than the 3rd best player in this draft.
If Williams was available via trade up, and the Giants did that, I wouldn't flinch.
We have a number of needs but depending on price, I'd be all for the best player in the draft 2 years straight.
it needs to be for a QB this is a very strong defensive draft moving up isnt good value unless you have conviction in a QB.
gettleman has said several times he wants to follow the kansas city model this can only mean a trade up to secure haskins which will require a move up with either the jets or raiders who are also reportedly interested in haskins too
if murray does go 1 to arizona then bosa will almost certainly go 2 ,since neither 49ers or jets are going QB this is where you need to target first to beat oakland unless you trade with oakland or plan to take a trade with rosen where i wouldnt spend more than the second or third round pick given how fast he is being moved its a huge red flag
i never wanted him when they could have taken him either and nothing he has done on or off the field has changed to make him any better
We could however move up in the 2nd round if someone we
covet slides . If were gonna start throwing picks around
then do it for a QB . We have plenty of holes to fill .
he isn't a nose tackle . He is a great prospect but
we should keep our assets and use them wisely .
we need to take our QB while we are in a position to do it without having to mortgage the franchise next year to get one.
We could however move up in the 2nd round if someone we
covet slides . If were gonna start throwing picks around
then do it for a QB . We have plenty of holes to fill .
he isn't a nose tackle . He is a great prospect but
we should keep our assets and use them wisely .
we need to take our QB while we are in a position to do it without having to mortgage the franchise next year to get one.
Agreed. And we may be picking alot lower than 6 next year too. Even an 8-8 season could have us picking at 17. The cost will be pretty enormous to trade up for a top QB.
IF they get williams, i think a trade for rosen is almost a given considering there will be no #17 this year and waiting is a massive risk.
if they can move up for williams using a 2020 1st, then trade for rosen and go williams at 4 and dev bush at 17
The Round 2 pick? No.
Either of the thirds? No.
After that, we can talk. Maybe.
Yes... Quinnen Williams is elite and if you don't get Nick Bosa, Josh Allen, or Big Q then you are getting a top player not an elite player. He would be a monster for us and I would trade all day ever day as long as it doesn't include #17
But Where does he play in a 3-4?
I happen to think Quinnen Williams is the best player in the Draft. His quickness and dominance on the inside is truly reminiscent of Aaron Donald. Quinnen is truly a player you build your defense around.
With that being said, Quinnen is really a 3T. I'm not sure if Bettcher would really commit to a 4-3 that's built around Quinnen. We don't exactly have a lot of pieces, but if we're going to trade up for Quinnen, we must switch over to the 4-3. It would bring out the best in Quinnen.
IF they get williams, i think a trade for rosen is almost a given considering there will be no #17 this year and waiting is a massive risk.
if they can move up for williams using a 2020 1st, then trade for rosen and go williams at 4 and dev bush at 17
You'd be willing to give up a 2020 1st to move up a few spots to take Williams?
Really?
The Round 2 pick? No.
Either of the thirds? No.
After that, we can talk. Maybe.
We only have one third
I'm guessing this would be a draft day trade if there is any truth to it
Agree - we need several good players
I'm guessing this would be a draft day trade if there is any truth to it
I would assume that we are after one of the top 4 players in the draft. Kyler Murray, Nick Bosa, Josh Allen, and probably the top Giant want in Quinnen Williams.
It is only 2 spots... it isn't going to be that crazy. Maybe a 2nd rounder.
ridiculously better... The top 3 Def are off the charts while the others are really good.
we receive #4 and # 24 and #126
we get best remaining DL and a T at #24 +
No way I'd want the Giants to cash in next year's 1st to move 2 spots.
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they are moving up but not for Q williams.
IF they get williams, i think a trade for rosen is almost a given considering there will be no #17 this year and waiting is a massive risk.
if they can move up for williams using a 2020 1st, then trade for rosen and go williams at 4 and dev bush at 17
You'd be willing to give up a 2020 1st to move up a few spots to take Williams?
Really?
i meant as a package...get maybe a 2 or 3 back but thats contingent on getting rosen
we receive #4 and # 24 and #126
we get best remaining DL and a T at #24 +
Oh come on man... Why would they move down 2 spots at the top of the draft to gain 7 spots later in the first and give up #126? Come on man.
Sorry Getts / Shurmur you want to win those games find a star at 6
We have limited ammunition in Rounds 4,5,7 to use in trading up but that opportunity applies in Rounds 3,4,5.
We need to nail all three picks in the top 40. Heck some of our third and some of our fours and fives need to be immediate contributors on defense.
He is amazing. Look out of all the first round Alabama DT that have come out ... IMO he is the best so far. He is a stud.
The Round 2 pick? No.
Either of the thirds? No.
After that, we can talk. Maybe.
The Jets traded up in a similar spot and it costs two seconds. That's the likely price...
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if we can get a great pick at 6?
Yes... Quinnen Williams is elite and if you don't get Nick Bosa, Josh Allen, or Big Q then you are getting a top player not an elite player. He would be a monster for us and I would trade all day ever day as long as it doesn't include #17
It should cost less than 17. Probably our second and a future 2 or 3.
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The 17? No.
The Round 2 pick? No.
Either of the thirds? No.
After that, we can talk. Maybe.
The Jets traded up in a similar spot and it costs two seconds. That's the likely price...
They traded up from 6 to 3 last year and it cost 3 2nd rounders. This would probably cost us less as A) it is from 6 to 4. Also this isn't a QB heavy draft like last year.
Like I guess the Raiders have a ton of money... I'm sure it would cost more than Shep and 6 to move up though. Maybe Shep, 6, and 37 for 2...
Being okay with one of the top 2-3 QBs (Jets trading up to #3, Eagles trading to #2, Washington to #2) is one thing...
Being comfortable enough with either a QB, DT or EDGE just seems very farfetched, IMO
You realize to be a team player Williams played out of position as a NG last year. How many NG have 19.5 TFL and 8 sacks! He was amazing and has big time pass rush and run stopping ability. That is why he is being called elite.
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In comment 14347926 Beezer said:
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The 17? No.
The Round 2 pick? No.
Either of the thirds? No.
After that, we can talk. Maybe.
The Jets traded up in a similar spot and it costs two seconds. That's the likely price...
They traded up from 6 to 3 last year and it cost 3 2nd rounders. This would probably cost us less as A) it is from 6 to 4. Also this isn't a QB heavy draft like last year.
You're right. My bad. It was three seconds.
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In comment 14347922 BleedBlue said:
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they are moving up but not for Q williams.
IF they get williams, i think a trade for rosen is almost a given considering there will be no #17 this year and waiting is a massive risk.
if they can move up for williams using a 2020 1st, then trade for rosen and go williams at 4 and dev bush at 17
You'd be willing to give up a 2020 1st to move up a few spots to take Williams?
Really?
i meant as a package...get maybe a 2 or 3 back but thats contingent on getting rosen
Under no circumstances do I trade away a future 2020 1st.
That is what I said.. It would cost less because it is 6 to 4 and that was a QB heavy draft.
I am in, this would be exactly what the doctor ordered for the D. I don’t see it though. It would make tremendous sense though.
What if they have Murray as the only QB they'd take, and then Bosa, Allen, and Williams as their only blue chips? It makes sense in that case, because no matter what they're getting the elite talent.
Can't knock this move. This would mean we would get a stud on the DL either at ER or DL proper. 6, 37, and a future 3rd to guarantee Allen or Williams over White? That's a tough call...
Think he'll get by the Jets. Heck Cards might even grab him.
Think he'll get by the Jets. Heck Cards might even grab him.
Jets could easily take Josh Allen. If our fall out on this is we get Josh Allen sold! Or Nick Bosa Sold! To me this is a top 4 draft and we pick 6th. Move up and get one of the elites.
I would happily give #6 + Evan Engram..maybe even throw in The Shepard.
almost zero chance they make it to 6. Bosa, Allen, and Williams won't make it past 5. Just won't happen and that is dreaming thinking it would.
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stated the obvious - He's going before the Raiders pick.
Think he'll get by the Jets. Heck Cards might even grab him.
Jets could easily take Josh Allen. If our fall out on this is we get Josh Allen sold! Or Nick Bosa Sold! To me this is a top 4 draft and we pick 6th. Move up and get one of the elites.
I agree. This would be ballsier than pretending that Devin White is the same prospect as Josh Allen...
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
It's not a simple calculation like that. It'd either cost more or less depending on which team wants it done more. But usually the team buying has to give up more. I think it'd be at least a second round pick in addition to the first swap.
Who? You don't play chances. If you have a player that fits what you want on this team then getting him isn't a problem. But who is trading up for a QB? Jax? No way. If Haskins falls to them then that is different but still see them going in a different direction. Miami? Not according to their reports of tanking this year and everything they have done so far has supported that claim? Cincinnati? Maybe. But now we are talking about a big drop down from 3 or 4 or 5. Why would NYJ, Oak, or TB want to drop down that far? It isn't like Cincinnati is desperate like other teams. So, what team will trade up and will give up an insane amount of picks to make it worthwhile for a team in the top 5 to tradd down?
We only have one third round pick and it’s back end of that round.
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
This sounds about what the trade would be.
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early.
Jets could easily take Josh Allen and the 49ers are probably going Nick Bosa. It isn't a reach that will happen. Worst case is we get super stud Josh Allen... Yes please.
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4th pick is 1800 draft points
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early.
They wouldn't take that trade.
He certainly is the best non QB in this draft. He is a combination of a younger Suh and Donald.
The kid is pretty special.
If we somehow pulled it off we'd be looking at the best player in the draft 2 years in a row.
I have a lot more respect for the target a player and trade up approach than I do for the "I can't believe this guy was still there when we picked. too much value for us to pass up" passive approach.
From all reports and rumors the Niners are all about Bosa.
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If they want him, have to package the 6 and 17 for the 2.
From all reports and rumors the Niners are all about Bosa.
Niners just got Ford. They’re less about Bosa now.
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In comment 14348023 The 12th Man said:
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4th pick is 1800 draft points
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early.
They wouldn't take that trade.
That is pretty definitive. Mayock is a draft geek and would love the mental gymnastics of being able to jockey around the draft with the additional ammo. The total value is a 20 point overpay so it is fair in value. They still get a premium pick with our #6.
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In comment 14348050 jeff57 said:
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If they want him, have to package the 6 and 17 for the 2.
From all reports and rumors the Niners are all about Bosa.
Niners just got Ford. They’re less about Bosa now.
Why? They need all the help they can get rushing the passer. They have spent a ton of high picks on DL already. They need to build up that pass rush.
If they have 4 blue chip prospects, they're not getting one at 6. At 4, you're getting at least 1. That's the whole point of the deal.
It's not about Williams per se. It's about Williams/Bosa/Allen/etc.
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In comment 14348041 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 14348023 The 12th Man said:
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4th pick is 1800 draft points
6th pick is 1600 draft points
A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths
I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early.
They wouldn't take that trade.
That is pretty definitive. Mayock is a draft geek and would love the mental gymnastics of being able to jockey around the draft with the additional ammo. The total value is a 20 point overpay so it is fair in value. They still get a premium pick with our #6.
You honestly think because some chart said the 240th pick is worth 10 points that means something? The Raiders would laugh at that deal.
There could be. But, if the Giants did this deal. I would presume that they don't view it that way.
If they have 4 blue chip prospects, they're not getting one at 6. At 4, you're getting at least 1. That's the whole point of the deal.
It's not about Williams per se. It's about Williams/Bosa/Allen/etc.
The value of the Giants 4th player on the big board is worth more than their 6th player PLUS whatever picks they package.
Link - ( New Window )
Why trade Engram. He's the leading receiver in 2019.
I'd be surprised if you applied that chart to trades involving draft picks if they correlated to the degree people seem to think they do.
Obviously, 6th round picks aren't worth as much as 2nd round picks. That doesn't mean teams use that value chart to determine how valuable their picks are. I'm sure it's much more complicated, with considerations payed to how deep the draft is, how valuable relatively the e.g. 165th pick in 2019 is compared to that same pick in 2020. Different drafts, different players, different value picks.
I wouldn't be surprised if teams used a similar way of ranking picks generally. But for actual trades, I'd be surprised if that chart explained them all (or even most).
for our 6th pick overall our 3rd round pick
Would be exactly 1840 for 1840 this makes sense. This is definitely something I would do to get the best player in the draft 2 years in a row. It makes even more sense as they drafted Hall last year and Maurice Hurst. They love Bosa but they expect him to be taken by the 49ers. So they trade back and can still get something they want.
Yes, Q. Williams will likely be an All-Pro in the NFL. You can't teach that kinda first step quickness and power to penetrate. Definitely a way better player than D. White.
I have Bosa, Q. Williams, J. Allen as my top 3 defensive players. All 3 should dominate in the NFL. If Murray goes #1 as perceived, well, if we trade for pick #4 we could end up with J. Allen, who in my mind is a notch below Q. Williams, if only because his high, high production was limited to really one big season.
If we send #6, our 2nd round and Shep I'm not sure that is good for us. I'd rather take D. White, a top interior OL in round 2, and send Shep to New England for their #2. We have too many holes to give up top 3 round picks. IMHO.
However, I do trade #6, our 2nd 3rd rounder and a 5th for #4 if it is Q. Williams for sure. That, well, yeah that is favorable to NYG's but not to Raiders. LOL
Maybe a player is involved instead of a 3rd rounder?
6 is worth 1,600
37 is worth 530
49 is worth 410
The value you assign a future pick is somewhat arbitrary but let's assume an average finish for the Jets at that time. The median value of a second round pick is 415.
Add that up you 2,955.
That would seem like a ridiculous overpay according to that chart. The Jets payed 34% more than the actual value according to that chart.
I'm just saying. There's really no good reason to use that chart as an indication of how teams value picks, because they don't value them in the way that chart indicates they should.
You're proving my point. Context matters much more than a chart of values that rarely ever captures the costs of doing business.
If all the others are blue chips which I agree then we need a super blue chip. Not all blue chips are equal. These are 3 of the best Def players I have seen in the draft at the same time. I would go up to 4 in a heart beat as long as I still had another 1st.
Why wouldn't they take Josh Allen... They clearly want an OLB after they missed on Anthony Barr. He is a stud and they easily can take him.
It is in Dave Te's thread.
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Where did you see this rumor?
It is in Dave Te's thread.
Dave Te's Rumor - ( New Window )
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In comment 14348258 Big Rick in FL said:
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Where did you see this rumor?
It is in Dave Te's thread.
Dave Te's Rumor - ( New Window )
Thanks! Somehow completely overlooked that thread.
Draft an ER, please.
That's a fair point. This is a Dave Te rumor we're talking about...
Agreed. Though I think Sweat and Greedy are the clear next 2 after a bit of a drop.
No way I'd want the Giants to cash in next year's 1st to move 2 spots.
It cost the Jets three 2nds to go from 6 to 3 last year. Going from 6 to 4 would cost at least one 2nd, possibly more than just that.
Get your defensive lineman. Gary. Lawrence Ferrell or even Devin White(LB)
No overthinking here. No fancy moves. Build the lines
He's a very good player at everything.
I see a lot of Richard Seymour.
Get your defensive lineman. Gary. Lawrence Ferrell or even Devin White(LB)
No overthinking here. No fancy moves. Build the lines
I agree.
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if we can get a great pick at 6?
Yes... Quinnen Williams is elite and if you don't get Nick Bosa, Josh Allen, or Big Q then you are getting a top player not an elite player. He would be a monster for us and I would trade all day ever day as long as it doesn't include #17
I agree with this. Those three seem to be on a top shelf of their own this year. If I were to trade up, i'd prefer to trade up for Josh Allen, partly because I think Williams would have to play DE in the 3-4, and he might not reach his potential for inside pressure playing end.
I'm trying to make sense of him saying that Haskins ran a 4.59 40 in the spring. Chalking it up to confusion, because it seems impossible to have happened. Sometimes with as many contacts as he has and as many prospects as he follows, it could be he gets confused about what he's hearing/heard.
I don't know.
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In comment 14347914 Big Blue '56 said:
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if we can get a great pick at 6?
Yes... Quinnen Williams is elite and if you don't get Nick Bosa, Josh Allen, or Big Q then you are getting a top player not an elite player. He would be a monster for us and I would trade all day ever day as long as it doesn't include #17
I agree with this. Those three seem to be on a top shelf of their own this year. If I were to trade up, i'd prefer to trade up for Josh Allen, partly because I think Williams would have to play DE in the 3-4, and he might not reach his potential for inside pressure playing end.
I'd rather have Josh Allen if we could move up without a significant cost.
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but I’m not sure he’s elite. Can he play the run?
He's a very good player at everything.
I see a lot of Richard Seymour.
A little Richard Seymour? There's about a fifty pound difference there...
covet slides . If were gonna start throwing picks around
then do it for a QB . We have plenty of holes to fill .
he isn't a nose tackle . He is a great prospect but
we should keep our assets and use them wisely .
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Get your offensive lineman. Taylor. Ford. Risner
Get your defensive lineman. Gary. Lawrence Ferrell or even Devin White(LB)
No overthinking here. No fancy moves. Build the lines
I agree.
I will third that I love Allen he can do it all IMO but
Jets are going Allen or Williams
Would you take Greedy Williams if he slides to 17 ?
Not me trenches !
With that said, I believe this to be false, no way he will last to pick 4.
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In comment 14348375 ryanmkeane said:
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but I’m not sure he’s elite. Can he play the run?
He's a very good player at everything.
I see a lot of Richard Seymour.
A little Richard Seymour? There's about a fifty pound difference there...
seems littler. so a little richard seymour.
Yes, all day. Quinnen Williams is a manimal. I think he's the best player in this draft as well, and I think he's in a class by himself, and no I didn't forget about Bosa. I think he's way better than Bosa, and I think Bosa is no worse than the 3rd best player in this draft.
If Williams was available via trade up, and the Giants did that, I wouldn't flinch.
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than other defensive players available at six? Doesn't seem to make sense.
Yes, all day. Quinnen Williams is a manimal. I think he's the best player in this draft as well, and I think he's in a class by himself, and no I didn't forget about Bosa. I think he's way better than Bosa, and I think Bosa is no worse than the 3rd best player in this draft.
If Williams was available via trade up, and the Giants did that, I wouldn't flinch.
We have a number of needs but depending on price, I'd be all for the best player in the draft 2 years straight.
So we make the move for Q. Williams and then what if Lynch decides he likes him better than Bosa/Allen?
Unless you're making this move when you're on the clock and you know he's there, be careful.
Quinnen Williams is a dynamic 3T. We could move B.J Hill to NT, plus the new signing Olsen Pierre played NT for Bettcher previously.
Do you read those?
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good just to be able to parse out a trade rumor in those walls of text!!
Do you read those?
Nope. I'll wait for Sy's reports. Formatted. Easy to read. Numerical Grade. No eye strain. And no announcement in every thread title that it is Sy.
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In comment 14348857 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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good just to be able to parse out a trade rumor in those walls of text!!
Do you read those?
Nope. I'll wait for Sy's reports. Formatted. Easy to read. Numerical Grade. No eye strain. And no announcement in every thread title that it is Sy.
I'm the same way.
gettleman has said several times he wants to follow the kansas city model this can only mean a trade up to secure haskins which will require a move up with either the jets or raiders who are also reportedly interested in haskins too
if murray does go 1 to arizona then bosa will almost certainly go 2 ,since neither 49ers or jets are going QB this is where you need to target first to beat oakland unless you trade with oakland or plan to take a trade with rosen where i wouldnt spend more than the second or third round pick given how fast he is being moved its a huge red flag
i never wanted him when they could have taken him either and nothing he has done on or off the field has changed to make him any better
The move is exactly the opposite, you go hard at the strength of supply and try to build abundant units.
and go for Offensive 'skills positions' (WRs, QBs, skinny people) in 2020.
covet slides . If were gonna start throwing picks around
then do it for a QB . We have plenty of holes to fill .
he isn't a nose tackle . He is a great prospect but
we should keep our assets and use them wisely .
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We could however move up in the 2nd round if someone we
covet slides . If were gonna start throwing picks around
then do it for a QB . We have plenty of holes to fill .
he isn't a nose tackle . He is a great prospect but
we should keep our assets and use them wisely .
we need to take our QB while we are in a position to do it without having to mortgage the franchise next year to get one.
Agreed. And we may be picking alot lower than 6 next year too. Even an 8-8 season could have us picking at 17. The cost will be pretty enormous to trade up for a top QB.