Dave 'Te with a juicy Giants Rumor

our trash can of 5th,6th,7th round picks. It amounts to a 20 point "overpay", but at least we won't have to get our hopes up reading about draft picks that won't ever get off the bench for us.

In comment 14347963 bc4life said:

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as unblockable. Doubt few would have an issue with them taking Q Williams with their first pick or even moving up. The devil's in the details (aka goodies)

I am in, this would be exactly what the doctor ordered for the D. I don’t see it though. It would make tremendous sense though.

trade up to 4 to get Williams and then the Jets take him right before us. There would be no possible way Gettleman would do this unless it was for a QB.

In comment 14347994 ryanmkeane said:

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trade up to 4 to get Williams and then the Jets take him right before us. There would be no possible way Gettleman would do this unless it was for a QB.

What if they have Murray as the only QB they'd take, and then Bosa, Allen, and Williams as their only blue chips? It makes sense in that case, because no matter what they're getting the elite talent.

Can't knock this move. This would mean we would get a stud on the DL either at ER or DL proper. 6, 37, and a future 3rd to guarantee Allen or Williams over White? That's a tough call...

stated the obvious - He's going before the Raiders pick.

Think he'll get by the Jets. Heck Cards might even grab him.

right. I'd do 6 and 17 for 4 and 27. Would Oakland?

If they want 17, Gruden and Mayock can go pound sand.

way, even for Williams. The cost will be astronomical, and we have a ton of holes. Stay put or trade down to get assets next year we can use to move up for a QB.

Chanecs are one of them falls to 6. Gotta think someone is trading up for a QB

In comment 14348009 robbieballs2003 said:

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right. I'd do 6 and 17 for 4 and 27. Would Oakland?

In comment 14348008 bc4life said:

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stated the obvious - He's going before the Raiders pick. Think he'll get by the Jets. Heck Cards might even grab him.

Jets could easily take Josh Allen. If our fall out on this is we get Josh Allen sold! Or Nick Bosa Sold! To me this is a top 4 draft and we pick 6th. Move up and get one of the elites.

And, presuming one knows the order 1,2,3, making it a lock;

I would happily give #6 + Evan Engram..maybe even throw in The Shepard.

In comment 14348014 bc4life said:

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Chanecs are one of them falls to 6. Gotta think someone is trading up for a QB

almost zero chance they make it to 6. Bosa, Allen, and Williams won't make it past 5. Just won't happen and that is dreaming thinking it would.

In comment 14348016 Amtoft said:

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In comment 14348008 bc4life said: Quote: stated the obvious - He's going before the Raiders pick. Think he'll get by the Jets. Heck Cards might even grab him. Jets could easily take Josh Allen. If our fall out on this is we get Josh Allen sold! Or Nick Bosa Sold! To me this is a top 4 draft and we pick 6th. Move up and get one of the elites.

I agree. This would be ballsier than pretending that Devin White is the same prospect as Josh Allen...

4th pick is 1800 draft points
6th pick is 1600 draft points

A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths

An all D + OL draft.

In comment 14348023 The 12th Man said:

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4th pick is 1800 draft points 6th pick is 1600 draft points A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths

It's not a simple calculation like that. It'd either cost more or less depending on which team wants it done more. But usually the team buying has to give up more. I think it'd be at least a second round pick in addition to the first swap.

In comment 14348014 bc4life said:

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Chanecs are one of them falls to 6. Gotta think someone is trading up for a QB

Who? You don't play chances. If you have a player that fits what you want on this team then getting him isn't a problem. But who is trading up for a QB? Jax? No way. If Haskins falls to them then that is different but still see them going in a different direction. Miami? Not according to their reports of tanking this year and everything they have done so far has supported that claim? Cincinnati? Maybe. But now we are talking about a big drop down from 3 or 4 or 5. Why would NYJ, Oak, or TB want to drop down that far? It isn't like Cincinnati is desperate like other teams. So, what team will trade up and will give up an insane amount of picks to make it worthwhile for a team in the top 5 to tradd down?

In comment 14347965 bc4life said:

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and give up one the 3rds? Doubt you'd get it for less.

We only have one third round pick and it’s back end of that round.

In comment 14348023 The 12th Man said:

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4th pick is 1800 draft points 6th pick is 1600 draft points A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths

This sounds about what the trade would be.

Simple. Q Williams will be gone by the #4 pick.

We want our QB from next year group and not Rosen. We have a a way now with the new cap dollars and picks to get it done. Early posts indicated DG likes next years QBs a lot better and ELI is going to be here. Great plan by DG if it plays out.

In comment 14348023 The 12th Man said:

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4th pick is 1800 draft points 6th pick is 1600 draft points A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths

I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early.

In comment 14348033 Torrag said:

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Simple. Q Williams will be gone by the #4 pick.

Jets could easily take Josh Allen and the 49ers are probably going Nick Bosa. It isn't a reach that will happen. Worst case is we get super stud Josh Allen... Yes please.

In comment 14348041 Diver_Down said:

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In comment 14348023 The 12th Man said: Quote: 4th pick is 1800 draft points 6th pick is 1600 draft points A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early.

They wouldn't take that trade.

In comment 14347924 Thegratefulhead said:

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Is the best player in this draft...End of story. If we can get him, 2 years in row we will draft he best player in the draft. I think he will be better than Jerome Brown.

He certainly is the best non QB in this draft. He is a combination of a younger Suh and Donald.

The kid is pretty special.

If we somehow pulled it off we'd be looking at the best player in the draft 2 years in a row.

is who you want, you absolutely make this move.

I have a lot more respect for the target a player and trade up approach than I do for the "I can't believe this guy was still there when we picked. too much value for us to pass up" passive approach.

If they want him, have to package the 6 and 17 for the 2.

In comment 14348050 jeff57 said:

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If they want him, have to package the 6 and 17 for the 2.

From all reports and rumors the Niners are all about Bosa.

Even talk to them now? We don't know if he will be there. Why play our cards face up when everyone else is playing face down?

In comment 14348053 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 14348050 jeff57 said: Quote: If they want him, have to package the 6 and 17 for the 2. From all reports and rumors the Niners are all about Bosa.

Niners just got Ford. They’re less about Bosa now.

In comment 14348045 Amtoft said:

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In comment 14348041 Diver_Down said: Quote: In comment 14348023 The 12th Man said: Quote: 4th pick is 1800 draft points 6th pick is 1600 draft points A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early. They wouldn't take that trade.

That is pretty definitive. Mayock is a draft geek and would love the mental gymnastics of being able to jockey around the draft with the additional ammo. The total value is a 20 point overpay so it is fair in value. They still get a premium pick with our #6.

In comment 14348059 jeff57 said:

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In comment 14348053 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: In comment 14348050 jeff57 said: Quote: If they want him, have to package the 6 and 17 for the 2. From all reports and rumors the Niners are all about Bosa. Niners just got Ford. They’re less about Bosa now.

Why? They need all the help they can get rushing the passer. They have spent a ton of high picks on DL already. They need to build up that pass rush.

and not on the situation. It doesn't matter exactly who the Giants want at 1 overall. It matters who they can get at 6 and who they can get at 4.

If they have 4 blue chip prospects, they're not getting one at 6. At 4, you're getting at least 1. That's the whole point of the deal.

It's not about Williams per se. It's about Williams/Bosa/Allen/etc.

there's not 6 blue chippers? (or more)

In comment 14348061 Diver_Down said:

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In comment 14348045 Amtoft said: Quote: In comment 14348041 Diver_Down said: Quote: In comment 14348023 The 12th Man said: Quote: 4th pick is 1800 draft points 6th pick is 1600 draft points A late 3 rd rounder is 120 points a 4th rounder is 80 So they would exchange for us and the Giants and have to give them their late third and one of the 4ths I'd still rather giving up all the picks from the 5th round and later (in addition to our #6). Let Mayock get his jollies drafting a shit-ton of fringe players while DG gets a stud while catching up on his sleep by leaving Nashville early. They wouldn't take that trade. That is pretty definitive. Mayock is a draft geek and would love the mental gymnastics of being able to jockey around the draft with the additional ammo. The total value is a 20 point overpay so it is fair in value. They still get a premium pick with our #6.

You honestly think because some chart said the 240th pick is worth 10 points that means something? The Raiders would laugh at that deal.

In comment 14348072 bc4life said:

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there's not 6 blue chippers? (or more)

There could be. But, if the Giants did this deal. I would presume that they don't view it that way.

In comment 14348066 adamg said:

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and not on the situation. It doesn't matter exactly who the Giants want at 1 overall. It matters who they can get at 6 and who they can get at 4. If they have 4 blue chip prospects, they're not getting one at 6. At 4, you're getting at least 1. That's the whole point of the deal. It's not about Williams per se. It's about Williams/Bosa/Allen/etc.

The value of the Giants 4th player on the big board is worth more than their 6th player PLUS whatever picks they package.

Sy LOVES him. Thinks he could be just as good.

Here is what it looks like
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14347959 idiotsavant said:

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. Yes

Why trade Engram. He's the leading receiver in 2019.

In comment 14348119 The 12th Man said:

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Here is what it looks like Link - ( New Window )

I'd be surprised if you applied that chart to trades involving draft picks if they correlated to the degree people seem to think they do.

Obviously, 6th round picks aren't worth as much as 2nd round picks. That doesn't mean teams use that value chart to determine how valuable their picks are. I'm sure it's much more complicated, with considerations payed to how deep the draft is, how valuable relatively the e.g. 165th pick in 2019 is compared to that same pick in 2020. Different drafts, different players, different value picks.

I wouldn't be surprised if teams used a similar way of ranking picks generally. But for actual trades, I'd be surprised if that chart explained them all (or even most).

It's not like the trades teams do are secret. We can test how accurate that chart is. I would bet it's far from perfect.

We exchange their 1st the 4th pick and their 5th round pick

for our 6th pick overall our 3rd round pick

Would be exactly 1840 for 1840 this makes sense. This is definitely something I would do to get the best player in the draft 2 years in a row. It makes even more sense as they drafted Hall last year and Maurice Hurst. They love Bosa but they expect him to be taken by the 49ers. So they trade back and can still get something they want.

At #6, we should land a stud defender, like my guy LB D. White.

Yes, Q. Williams will likely be an All-Pro in the NFL. You can't teach that kinda first step quickness and power to penetrate. Definitely a way better player than D. White.

I have Bosa, Q. Williams, J. Allen as my top 3 defensive players. All 3 should dominate in the NFL. If Murray goes #1 as perceived, well, if we trade for pick #4 we could end up with J. Allen, who in my mind is a notch below Q. Williams, if only because his high, high production was limited to really one big season.

If we send #6, our 2nd round and Shep I'm not sure that is good for us. I'd rather take D. White, a top interior OL in round 2, and send Shep to New England for their #2. We have too many holes to give up top 3 round picks. IMHO.

However, I do trade #6, our 2nd 3rd rounder and a 5th for #4 if it is Q. Williams for sure. That, well, yeah that is favorable to NYG's but not to Raiders. LOL

with all the Giants' needs. I'd easily give away the 5th round picks as they won't likely amount to much. The 4th and 1 or 2 of the 5th rounders I'd probably be ok with.

Maybe a player is involved instead of a 3rd rounder?

3 is worth 2,200

6 is worth 1,600
37 is worth 530
49 is worth 410
The value you assign a future pick is somewhat arbitrary but let's assume an average finish for the Jets at that time. The median value of a second round pick is 415.

Add that up you 2,955.

That would seem like a ridiculous overpay according to that chart. The Jets payed 34% more than the actual value according to that chart.

I'm just saying. There's really no good reason to use that chart as an indication of how teams value picks, because they don't value them in the way that chart indicates they should.

for their trade by over 600 points but that was because the Bills were lurking and the Jets knew it. So they traded up into that spot to lock it in before the draft so no one could over whelm the Colts on draft day. They paid a premium to get to the position they wanted.

In comment 14348182 The 12th Man said:

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for their trade by over 600 points but that was because the Bills were lurking and the Jets knew it. So they traded up into that spot to lock it in before the draft so no one could over whelm the Colts on draft day. They paid a premium to get to the position they wanted.

You're proving my point. Context matters much more than a chart of values that rarely ever captures the costs of doing business.

meant to be perfectly exact in terms of trades. Some have a premium based on demand, some are under value based on demand, but the chart is directionally accurate as a guide and used by all teams.