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Giants got more for Odell than Raiders did for Mack

gggggggmen : 3/19/2019 7:12 pm
Unpacking the Odell trade and comparing it to the last blockbuster NFL deal, the Khalil Mack trade. On the surface itís widely reported the Raiders got 2 1st round picks for Mack, and yes while true, itís really just a swap of the Raiders 2020 2nd with the Bears 2020 1st. Being that the Bears are on the rise and the Raiders look to be a few years away, this pick in reality could be a few picks apart.

Below are the rest of the details comparing the 2 deals -
- Giants got pick 17 this year, Raiders got pick 24 (granted Giants dealt knowing the pick they were receiving)
- Giants got a 3rd rd pick this year, Raiders got a 2020 3rd (4th rd value this year)
- The Raiders - Bears swap of the 2019 6th for a 2020 5th is a negligible, even swap.
- Giants got Jabril Peppers

All in all I think the Giants made out fairly well and the backlash of what we got for Odell being too light is really unwarranted considering we got a lot more than the Raiders did.



Trade Details Below -
The Bears gave up first-round picks in 2019 and 2020, a third-round pick in 2020 and a sixth-round pick in 2019 to acquire Mack earlier Saturday. In return, the Bears also received a second-round pick in 2020 and a conditional fifth-round pick in 2020.


Beckham to the Browns, the Giants acquired Cleveland's 2019 first-round pick (No. 17 overall), one of the Browns third-round picks, plus safety Jabrill Peppers.
and  
SHO'NUFF : 3/19/2019 7:14 pm : link
look what happened to the Raiders.
I mentioned this in a thread the other day  
adamg : 3/19/2019 7:14 pm : link
At least, I said that the trades were comparable.

I think fans generally overvalue their players at times. Thinking Beckham is worth 3 first round picks is ludicrous.
RE: and  
adamg : 3/19/2019 7:15 pm : link
In comment 14348445 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
look what happened to the Raiders.


Is this a joke? They tanked last year and they're rebuilding. How would you judge how they handled that trade after a year?
The Bears  
pjcas18 : 3/19/2019 7:17 pm : link
had to sign Mack to an extension though.

they gave him a whopping $90M guaranteed.
RE: and  
gggggggmen : 3/19/2019 7:17 pm : link
In comment 14348445 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
look what happened to the Raiders.



We won 4 games with Odell last year.
We also  
Amtoft : 3/19/2019 7:17 pm : link
got our 4th back sending Clevelands 5th back to them. That part keeps getting left out of the OBJ trade.
RE: The Bears  
gggggggmen : 3/19/2019 7:18 pm : link
In comment 14348450 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
had to sign Mack to an extension though.

they gave him a whopping $90M guaranteed.


Odellís not paid?
...  
christian : 3/19/2019 7:20 pm : link
But the Giants ate 16M of salary for the right to trade and get the nominally better deal -- so if we're going to play the equivalents game -- the Giants also gave up the opportunity to sign a Preston Smith caliber player as well.
RE: RE: The Bears  
pjcas18 : 3/19/2019 7:21 pm : link
In comment 14348455 gggggggmen said:
Quote:
In comment 14348450 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


had to sign Mack to an extension though.

they gave him a whopping $90M guaranteed.



Odellís not paid?

He was already paid, so there was cost certainty, obviously the Bears were allowed time to discuss extending Mack (I believe), but there was some risk.

And Beckham has far less owed and far less guaranteed.
RE: ...  
gggggggmen : 3/19/2019 7:24 pm : link
In comment 14348457 christian said:
Quote:
But the Giants ate 16M of salary for the right to trade and get the nominally better deal -- so if we're going to play the equivalents game -- the Giants also gave up the opportunity to sign a Preston Smith caliber player as well.


Giants got a rising star safety on a rookie contract for 3 years and ate 16m in a year they wonít be competing for a Super Bowl. This trade happened after Preston Smith had an agreement with GB. Also, Preston Smith and Odell arenít getting this team to the playoffs
RE: RE: RE: The Bears  
gggggggmen : 3/19/2019 7:26 pm : link
In comment 14348459 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14348455 gggggggmen said:


Quote:


In comment 14348450 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


had to sign Mack to an extension though.

they gave him a whopping $90M guaranteed.



Odellís not paid?


He was already paid, so there was cost certainty, obviously the Bears were allowed time to discuss extending Mack (I believe), but there was some risk.

And Beckham has far less owed and far less guaranteed.


So either the Giants got more for a less impactful player, or the Bears overspent on Mackís contract?
impressed with the way  
bluepepper : 3/19/2019 7:31 pm : link
you waived off that 2020 first round pick. Nicely done.
RE: RE: and  
SHO'NUFF : 3/19/2019 7:37 pm : link
In comment 14348449 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14348445 SHO'NUFF said:


Quote:


look what happened to the Raiders.



Is this a joke? They tanked last year and they're rebuilding. How would you judge how they handled that trade after a year?


so we're tanking this year... good for us. Maybe we will be in position to draft Tua next year.
How much dead cap  
ron mexico : 3/19/2019 7:38 pm : link
Did each team eat?
RE: impressed with the way  
BlueLou'sBack : 3/19/2019 7:39 pm : link
In comment 14348473 bluepepper said:
Quote:
you waived off that 2020 first round pick. Nicely done.


LOLS!

Yeah the year they draft xxxxx to replace Carr.
Draft picks are unknowns  
Mdgiantsfan : 3/19/2019 7:39 pm : link
Until they suit up you wonít know. Draft picks mean nothing at this point as noone knows what is to come. Iíll say it again, Erick Flowers was a first rounder and there many more first round busts. Odell was a proven commodity on the field and that production will not be easy to replace.
Mack is  
FranchiseQB : 3/19/2019 7:43 pm : link
a more important player than Beckham.

Elite pass rusher trumps elite receiver
RE: impressed with the way  
gggggggmen : 3/19/2019 7:50 pm : link
In comment 14348473 bluepepper said:
Quote:
you waived off that 2020 first round pick. Nicely done.



I said theyíll be likely be close. The Bears arenít going anywhere and Oakland doesnít look very good this year. Plus we got Peppers which closes the gap on just that pick difference. Only way Oaklands trade is better than the Giants is if the Bears collapse next year
RE: Mack is  
gggggggmen : 3/19/2019 7:51 pm : link
In comment 14348499 FranchiseQB said:
Quote:
a more important player than Beckham.

Elite pass rusher trumps elite receiver



And the Giants still got more than Oakland
Mack has only missed one game since being drafted  
Ira : 3/19/2019 8:11 pm : link
.
Can we, for the love of God,  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/19/2019 8:12 pm : link
move on?
The Giants also got rid of OBJ contract  
Chip : 3/19/2019 8:25 pm : link
at around 20 mil per year in 2020-2022. Money that can be used for a player like Demarcus Lawrence or someone of that ilk
Whatever makes you guys feel better...  
OBJ_AllDay : 3/19/2019 8:51 pm : link
Fact remains we are a way worse football team without Beckham than with Beckham. We also lost the only guy who could single handedly bring a team back from a 14 point deficit in the 4th quarter of a game. There is no receiver you can count on with this roster that can take over a game and get large chunks of yardage on a consistent basis. The Giants are a worse football team without Beckham bottom line. The media has successfully convinced half this board that this guy is basically a murderer so thereís no changing minds at this point. It is what it it is.
RE: Whatever makes you guys feel better...  
Johnny5 : 3/19/2019 8:56 pm : link
In comment 14348587 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
Fact remains we are a way worse football team without Beckham than with Beckham. We also lost the only guy who could single handedly bring a team back from a 14 point deficit in the 4th quarter of a game. There is no receiver you can count on with this roster that can take over a game and get large chunks of yardage on a consistent basis. The Giants are a worse football team without Beckham bottom line. The media has successfully convinced half this board that this guy is basically a murderer so thereís no changing minds at this point. It is what it it is.

I am an OBj fan and am sad to see him go... but honestly when was the last time he took over a game? Certainly not since his injury last year... at least that I can recall. He has not had that second gear since the injury. Remains to be seen if we got the best of the trade. I can understand the reasoning though...
RE: Draft picks are unknowns  
Scuzzlebutt : 3/19/2019 9:35 pm : link
In comment 14348496 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
Until they suit up you wonít know. Draft picks mean nothing at this point as noone knows what is to come. Iíll say it again, Erick Flowers was a first rounder and there many more first round busts. Odell was a proven commodity on the field and that production will not be easy to replace.


Agree that the draft is a crapshoot and OBJ was proven, but a guy like OBJ is a tremendous asset when he is playing on a rookie salary. However, at $20mm per year OBJ is not nearly as valuable an asset. That is why drafting well is the key to winning in the NFL and why draft picks are so highly valued. If you can compile a core of talented, productive, and inexpensive players, you have a huge advantage.

Once a guy is getting paid what he is worth he really isnít as valuable (as strange as it sounds). It is all about bang for your buck when you are working under the salary cap.
RE: Whatever makes you guys feel better...  
gggggggmen : 3/19/2019 10:04 pm : link
In comment 14348587 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
Fact remains we are a way worse football team without Beckham than with Beckham. We also lost the only guy who could single handedly bring a team back from a 14 point deficit in the 4th quarter of a game. There is no receiver you can count on with this roster that can take over a game and get large chunks of yardage on a consistent basis. The Giants are a worse football team without Beckham bottom line. The media has successfully convinced half this board that this guy is basically a murderer so thereís no changing minds at this point. It is what it it is.




The point is to build an all around team so youíre not down 14 waiting for Odell to hit a home run, when in reality you should be up in the game if the team had any sense of balance
RE: RE: Draft picks are unknowns  
gggggggmen : 3/19/2019 10:06 pm : link
In comment 14348633 Scuzzlebutt said:
Quote:
In comment 14348496 Mdgiantsfan said:


Quote:


Until they suit up you wonít know. Draft picks mean nothing at this point as noone knows what is to come. Iíll say it again, Erick Flowers was a first rounder and there many more first round busts. Odell was a proven commodity on the field and that production will not be easy to replace.



Agree that the draft is a crapshoot and OBJ was proven, but a guy like OBJ is a tremendous asset when he is playing on a rookie salary. However, at $20mm per year OBJ is not nearly as valuable an asset. That is why drafting well is the key to winning in the NFL and why draft picks are so highly valued. If you can compile a core of talented, productive, and inexpensive players, you have a huge advantage.

Once a guy is getting paid what he is worth he really isnít as valuable (as strange as it sounds). It is all about bang for your buck when you are working under the salary cap.



Agreed. We freed up 20m a year + got 3 assets. If we repurpose that 20m towards Michael Thomas next year, what would you rather have? Odell or MT plus the 3 assets.
And people ripped the Raiders for that trade  
MM_in_NYC : 3/19/2019 11:21 pm : link
...said it made no sense and they did not get good value. Sure you'll find some who said otherwise. Consensus was they got bad value.
'Giants got more'...  
Torrag : 3/20/2019 3:12 am : link
...when you factor in overall cap considerations and player assets exchanged the two deals have very similar overall value.

Bottomline is despite the negative DG narrative many clueless posters and the press would like to foment he did a good job...again.
RE: and  
Toth029 : 3/20/2019 6:22 am : link
In comment 14348445 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
look what happened to the Raiders.

Their defense sucked with him.

It was a good deal for both sides.
RE: and  
joeinpa : 3/20/2019 7:02 am : link
In comment 14348445 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
look what happened to the Raiders.


You mean in contrast to how well the Giants did the last two seasons with OBJ?
Oakland got a shit deal and so did we  
TD : 3/20/2019 7:03 am : link
Whatís your point? Weíre like the Raiders??

Awesome..
RE: Draft picks are unknowns  
bw in dc : 3/20/2019 8:16 am : link
In comment 14348496 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
Until they suit up you wonít know. Draft picks mean nothing at this point as noone knows what is to come. Iíll say it again, Erick Flowers was a first rounder and there many more first round busts. Odell was a proven commodity on the field and that production will not be easy to replace.


True, but we got Peppers. A player at a position of need who is on the rise. So merely getting that proven asset tilts the draft package comparison, at least for now, our way.
We got the better deal before you factor in two things - both players  
Ira : 3/20/2019 8:30 am : link
injury history and both players personal stability. So, we got a much better deal than the Raiders.
No one knows yet  
arniefez : 3/20/2019 8:59 am : link
Let's see who the teams draft with those picks. I think the Giants did ok. Ok is much better than they've been doing.
Giants ate $32 million signing bonus  
Youtoo : 3/20/2019 10:25 am : link
Odell was much cheaper for the browns than MAck is for the Bears. The browns only have to pay Odells year by year salary. The Giants ate the signing bonus.

All the giants got for that is the last pick in the 3rd round.

Salary cap rolls over. This trade was idiotic especially with the giants wasting money on a 30 year old Golden Tate on a team that has no defense and a QB that is likely in his last year. If you dump Odell, just tank, save money, and rebuild.
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