Price for Rosen

i'd give a 2nd round pick for Rosen, IF and it's a big IF the Giants like him.

I wouldn't force it because he's available, but if DG and Shurmur feel he's a franchise QB, you get him at a great price with minimal depreciation for his 1 year of experience.

It would be a coup to get Rosen for a 2nd when you consider you still have 2 1st's a 3rd as meaningful picks and you have added a top 5 RG to your team.

What is Rosen worth next year?

get the obsession with Rosen and what we would pay.

Regardless of what we pay, if we try him at QB and he fails, we'll have wasted another couple of years.

I don't see a realistic scenario where we get him and he comes in immediately and starts, and if he comes in, sits behind eli and plays next year, he's already another year closer to his second contract.

You offer #17 without hesitation. You may still ask for picks back to sweeten the deal, but a year ago he went #10 overall (and some felt he could have gone higher) and if you watch the tape he played pretty well given the situation. So if that's your evaluation, 17 is still a bargain (getting a top 10 guy for a mid first), especially if you get a pick or two back. If you can land your franchise QB in this draft on top of potential stud edge @6, you take it and run. That's the two biggest pieces remaining in your rebuild right there, plus the rest of your draft. You would be nuts not to.

On the other hand, if they don't see Rosen as a franchise guy, don't waste your time, regardless of the price.

1) You are confident he is going to be your franchise qb
2) You think he might be your franchise qb and you want to take a chance
3) you are looking for a cost sonywreolled back up we

The price is dependent on how many teams fall into each category. If there are two teams that think he is a franchise qb then the price should probably be a first Round pick. Teams trade a lot more than 1 first round pick to get a franchise qb, so if you were certain then a forest round might be seen as almost a bargain.

I think most teams with interest fall into category 2. They think he might be but have concerns. The fact that Az is giving up after a year, although it can be explained away about Murray being the better fit, raises concerns. Teams might have concerns but they will be willing to take a calculated risk. A calculated risk on a franchise qb I would guess would be a 2 to 4th round pick. The price depends on how many teams are interested and how much of a risk they think it is.

This like buying a house. Do you want risk losing out because you are trying to underpay. If you miss out it may cost you more to get your next house and you may get more desperate. Sometimes you luck out with a lowball offer, but is it worth the risk. If you really want it and feel you can afford it and still buy all the other things you need, is it really an overlay if the value then goes up after you buy it.

I think they'd be silly this early to trade him for anything less.

I'm hearing how Jones and Lock are potential 1st rd picks and imo Rosen is much better than either. Plus I think he's better than Haskins.

In comment 14348855 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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get the obsession with Rosen and what we would pay. Regardless of what we pay, if we try him at QB and he fails, we'll have wasted another couple of years. I don't see a realistic scenario where we get him and he comes in immediately and starts, and if he comes in, sits behind eli and plays next year, he's already another year closer to his second contract.

If we are going to spend considerable resources on any QB this off season then I don't see why we won't have them play at some point in the season.. it won't make any sense to give up a 2nd for Rosen or 6th pick for Murray/Haskins and then not have them play in a real NFL game this season..

As soon as they draft Murray (or when they inform other teams that they're taking Murray and open to offers for Rosen) is just plain dumb.

Like everyone else, I have no idea what offer AZ would accept to trade Rosen, but chances are multiple teams will be interested. And if that's the case, Rosen will be traded at his MARKET VALUE, not at some bargain price because people think that AZ has to trade him.

Think of it this way. You just accepted an offer for your dream job, but it's out of state and you're going to have to sell your house ASAP.

When your home goes on the market you get three offers within days. Do you lose leverage because you HAVE to sell or do you gain leverage because you have three bidders competing against one another to buy your home?

And I also agree with Robbie. If AZ only gets low-ball offers they may choose to keep Rosen. They could actually let Murray sit for half the season (like Eli did) and start Rosen. And if Rosen showed improvement in year two his value would likely increase.

In comment 14348876 Jim in Tampa said:

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As soon as they draft Murray (or when they inform other teams that they're taking Murray and open to offers for Rosen) is just plain dumb. Like everyone else, I have no idea what offer AZ would accept to trade Rosen, but chances are multiple teams will be interested. And if that's the case, Rosen will be traded at his MARKET VALUE, not at some bargain price because people think that AZ has to trade him. Think of it this way. You just accepted an offer for your dream job, but it's out of state and you're going to have to sell your house ASAP. When your home goes on the market you get three offers within days. Do you lose leverage because you HAVE to sell or do you gain leverage because you have three bidders competing against one another to buy your home? And I also agree with Robbie. If AZ only gets low-ball offers they may choose to keep Rosen. They could actually let Murray sit for half the season (like Eli did) and start Rosen. And if Rosen showed improvement in year two his value would likely increase.

+1

has made the decision that Eli is the QB this year:

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If we are going to spend considerable resources on any QB this off season then I don't see why we won't have them play at some point in the season.. it won't make any sense to give up a 2nd for Rosen or 6th pick for Murray/Haskins and then not have them play in a real NFL game this season.

Or at least I hope didn't just toss $5M aside for his roster bonus. If Haskins or Murray is drafted, I could see a succession where they come in like Eli did his rookie year - game 8 or 9 if it is clear we aren't going anywhere. If rosen is here, I don't know what would happen, especially if the team is playing well.

The problem is that teams don't often cut cords with QB's very quickly (and the fact that the Cards might raises other questions). So if rosen is here, he's likely here for a couple of years and if he plays mediocre, we are still at Step 1, regardless of whether we paid a 1st, 2nd or 3rd for him.

In comment 14348876 Jim in Tampa said:

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As soon as they draft Murray (or when they inform other teams that they're taking Murray and open to offers for Rosen) is just plain dumb. Like everyone else, I have no idea what offer AZ would accept to trade Rosen, but chances are multiple teams will be interested. And if that's the case, Rosen will be traded at his MARKET VALUE, not at some bargain price because people think that AZ has to trade him. Think of it this way. You just accepted an offer for your dream job, but it's out of state and you're going to have to sell your house ASAP. When your home goes on the market you get three offers within days. Do you lose leverage because you HAVE to sell or do you gain leverage because you have three bidders competing against one another to buy your home? And I also agree with Robbie. If AZ only gets low-ball offers they may choose to keep Rosen. They could actually let Murray sit for half the season (like Eli did) and start Rosen. And if Rosen showed improvement in year two his value would likely increase.

I agree. I went with a house analogy too and I think it applies in so many ways.

is pretty funny.

"I'd give them a used pair of socks for Rosen and tell them to take it! I have all the leverage!!!"

In comment 14348895 Mike from Ohio said:

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is pretty funny. "I'd give them a used pair of socks for Rosen and tell them to take it! I have all the leverage!!!"

Makes the pretzel and hot dog offer sound pretty attractive!!

.

because they haven't committed to picking Murray, which won't happen until they are on the clock on draft night.

All this talk about a 3rd rounder or even a 2nd rounder getting it done seems like nonsense. Their is no incentive for them to trade him now, zero. I'm also of the opinion that if they draft Murray, Rosen's value still doesn't take that much of a hit.

If they like him and can get him for a 2nd or later then fine, but I don't see that happening. Arizona is going to want a first right now, and we won't part with one (yet).

In comment 14348787 Eli owns all said:

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Or nothing. The cards are screwed if no one is offering anything. They will have to take a low ball offer.

I guess we found Gettleman's BBI handle.

In comment 14348799 Dave in PA said:

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Maybe the week of the draft. Simply put, what if Murray gets hurt while training or some freak incident?

Deal would probably happen on draft day.

Cards are not in a good bargaining position. A player they'll have to get rid of and a limited market.

In comment 14348892 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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has made the decision that Eli is the QB this year: Quote: If we are going to spend considerable resources on any QB this off season then I don't see why we won't have them play at some point in the season.. it won't make any sense to give up a 2nd for Rosen or 6th pick for Murray/Haskins and then not have them play in a real NFL game this season. Or at least I hope didn't just toss $5M aside for his roster bonus. If Haskins or Murray is drafted, I could see a succession where they come in like Eli did his rookie year - game 8 or 9 if it is clear we aren't going anywhere. If rosen is here, I don't know what would happen, especially if the team is playing well. The problem is that teams don't often cut cords with QB's very quickly (and the fact that the Cards might raises other questions). So if rosen is here, he's likely here for a couple of years and if he plays mediocre, we are still at Step 1, regardless of whether we paid a 1st, 2nd or 3rd for him.

While I won't have done the same the $5M shouldn't stop us from trying out our next QB.. unless we are in a realistic playoff run.. Also I get your understanding of why a team would quit on a player so fast.. But its the Cardinals.. during the past few decades the only time they were good was with Bruce Arians and he couldn't wait to get out of there.. I won't trust anything Cardinals do.. plus they have a new HC.. who may or may not share the same view point as the previous HC..

Also I hope the decision on whether or not a player should play out the year should be made on a game by game basis.. you can't come in with the logic that no matter what Eli is starting 16 games.. thats just not a smart way to operate.. But looking at current management I won't put it past them..

made it clear that I wanted to trade for Rosen. I also thought it was extremely unlikely to happen. But I'd be stunned if it happened now that we've paid Eli his $5M roster bonus.

Eli's replacement will be drafted this year or next.

Don’t fret it.

both Will Brinson and Brady Quinn thought Rosen could be had for a 2nd.

#37 today for Rosen, I think Cards would take it. Only reason that hasn't happened is because A) we might not want Rosen B) Giants are waiting to see what Cards do with Murray C) Cards actually want to keep Rosen and not draft Murray

I think it's a combination of 1 and 2

In comment 14348963 Ivan15 said:

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Don’t fret it.

Maybe before. Cards had Murray in for a private visit yesterday

is that he's cheap and you can let him go with no cap hit if he doesn't work out. Therefore there is a floor to his value - he's a no-brainer if he can be had for a 7th rounder, for example.

Unless you're really high on him.

So, if you're really high on him, he's worth even the #6, and if you're not, you have to think what pick would you risk on a player you believe you may have to cut in two years. Certainly not #6 or #17. #37? Maybe, depending on how much risk you think there is.

In comment 14348960 AcidTest said:

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made it clear that I wanted to trade for Rosen. I also thought it was extremely unlikely to happen. But I'd be stunned if it happened now that we've paid Eli his $5M roster bonus. Eli's replacement will be drafted this year or next.

I tend to agree, however...

It's entirely possible that teams contacting AZ about Rosen's availability were told that he's not on the market, because they weren't quite yet ready to commit to Murray. In this scenario the Giants could have felt that they had no choice but to pay Eli his roster bonus.

I also think that Mara didn't feel comfortable cutting Eli and wants to give him one last shot this year. But I also think that the Giants want to get their future QB this year as well. And if that's the case, is trading for Rosen and letting him sit until the Giants are out of the playoffs in 2019 really that much different than drafting a QB and having him do the same thing?

In comment 14348971 ryanmkeane said:

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#37 today for Rosen, I think Cards would take it. Only reason that hasn't happened is because A) we might not want Rosen B) Giants are waiting to see what Cards do with Murray C) Cards actually want to keep Rosen and not draft Murray I think it's a combination of 1 and 2

Gettleman gave us his window of thought in the Odell trade. The team that calls first is at a disadvantage. If the Giants are interested in Rosen, they should just sit there and wait for the Cardinals to start calling. The moment the Cardinals start calling around about Rosen, his value is diminished because that means teams know they are picking Murray and they will have to deal him. The leverage the Cardinals have is to try to get a bidding war. The general sense is he will cost a 3rd, but if there is a semi bidding war.

I'm still curious about Jt's hint that the Giants will deal Shepard and if he lands another 2nd or 3rd, I think that has to signal the Giants are going to be trading somehow for a QB, either a trade up from 17 (or 6) or to get Rosen.

In comment 14348855 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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get the obsession with Rosen and what we would pay. Regardless of what we pay, if we try him at QB and he fails, we'll have wasted another couple of years.

Agreed, but wouldnt that also be true if we took Murray or Haskins at 6, or even more risky if we bundled several picks and took them at 2 or 3? We would also be paying them a HELL of a lot more. Rosen is $6M over 4 years. That is long snapper money.

At some point we have to take a BIG risk on a QB. A 2nd rounder (and only $6M over 4 years) is such a low investment and risk for a QB with his skill set that I think it would be irresponsible to not pull the trigger (if available).

Give him 2 years and if it doesnt work out you try again in the 2021 draft.

In comment 14348986 Matt in SGS said:

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In comment 14348971 ryanmkeane said: Quote: #37 today for Rosen, I think Cards would take it. Only reason that hasn't happened is because A) we might not want Rosen B) Giants are waiting to see what Cards do with Murray C) Cards actually want to keep Rosen and not draft Murray I think it's a combination of 1 and 2 Gettleman gave us his window of thought in the Odell trade. The team that calls first is at a disadvantage. If the Giants are interested in Rosen, they should just sit there and wait for the Cardinals to start calling. The moment the Cardinals start calling around about Rosen, his value is diminished because that means teams know they are picking Murray and they will have to deal him. The leverage the Cardinals have is to try to get a bidding war. The general sense is he will cost a 3rd, but if there is a semi bidding war. I'm still curious about Jt's hint that the Giants will deal Shepard and if he lands another 2nd or 3rd, I think that has to signal the Giants are going to be trading somehow for a QB, either a trade up from 17 (or 6) or to get Rosen.

Didn't finish my thought, a bidding war will likely mean he will cost a 2nd.

and I really feel like it could actually be injurious to our future if we do. But I suppose I could be convinced to take a flyer for a 4th or 5th.

If they take Murray. Aside from possible attitude issues, and I have no idea if they exist, there needs to be some similarities between your starting QB and the backup especially on a young team. The OL needs to block differently for a mobile vs drop back; routes are run differently. You can’t change an offense completely if somebody gets hurt mid game. That’s why I have trouble believing the Giants are serious about Murray or Haskins if one was available at 6.

In comment 14348933 jeff57 said:

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Cards are not in a good bargaining position. A player they'll have to get rid of and a limited market.

How is it a limited market? You've got 4 or 5 QB's likely to be drafted in the first round in 2020 - seems like the market is huge. Any one of those teams can see Rosen as an infinitely cheaper option even at a late 1st/early 2nd than having to trade up to get one of the other guys.

The QB position doesn't decrease in value.

just pointing out that the situation is rare/somewhat unprecedented and that many teams will probably be interested in trading for him should AZ take Murray. The market is plenty big and thus, I can't see AZ just settling for a 3rd rounder.

They have the issue and not us.

In comment 14348855 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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get the obsession with Rosen and what we would pay. Regardless of what we pay, if we try him at QB and he fails, we'll have wasted another couple of years. I don't see a realistic scenario where we get him and he comes in immediately and starts, and if he comes in, sits behind eli and plays next year, he's already another year closer to his second contract.

This is wrong. Rosen is cheap. The cap hit is very manageable.

So if he isn’t the answer, and he should start right away to determine that, we’ll likely be bad again and back in the mix for a high draft pick.

We’re likely not going anywhere with Eli this year. So this year should be used as an audition.

In comment 14349022 UConn4523 said:

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just pointing out that the situation is rare/somewhat unprecedented and that many teams will probably be interested in trading for him should AZ take Murray. The market is plenty big and thus, I can't see AZ just settling for a 3rd rounder.

It's dreaming to think a 3rd pick would net a young QB like Rosen. The bidding in all likelihood starts at a 2nd and goes up from there.

Welcome to the NFL...

1.) playing Rosen with Murray in the wings would put an enormous amount of pressure on Rosen.
2.) If he does succeed, now you have to deal Murray and if it's preseason isn't lights out - good luck with that.
3.) If he doesn't succeed, now you have to take pennies on the dollar for Rosen b/c he didn't get the job done and every knows it
I think that if the Cards are hell bent on taking Murray - a draft day trade might net the most value for Rosen. Maybe a QB needy team panics if Lock, Haskins and Murray go early and they are willing to part with a mid to late round 1 or early rd 2 pick... that's prolly their best bet.

Manage to obtain Quinnen Williams and Josh Rosen, while keeping their #17, I would be ecstatic.

His talent is so obvious when you watch him play, if you put him in camp with Eli it will be blatantly obvious that he is a better passer and a better fit for Shurmur's system. if the plan is to really let Eli play this year as much as it pains me they're probably not going to grab Rosen. It makes me very sad cuz I am a big believer in his talent.

is not what is getting in the way of this. That would be very sad

In comment 14348808 robbieballs2003 said:

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One, if the best offer Arizona gets for Rosen is a third they will just hold onto him. They don't have to trade him. Two, we have no future QB. The longer we wait, the higher the price becomes because we lose leverage. We can play it off like we will take Haskins early. No QB available at 37 is going to be on par with Rosen. And for those saying he sucked last year go back and look at Josh Allen and Sam Darnold. Rosen's numbers are right in line with them except he had the worst OL in football. Neither the Jets nor Buffalo are trading their QB. The 37th pick for Rosen is still a huge advantage in our favor. Our third round pick is basically a 3rd round compensatory pick. If that is the best offer that Arizona gets why wouldn't they just hold onto him for 3 more years as insurance and then get a comp pick when he leaves via FA?

Totally agree robbie. Everyone talks like no one else is or will be interested. For the price he's getting paid and the little risk of getting him I'd be happy to get him for a 2 maybe even #17. Sy said he'd give up our 6 for him.

In comment 14349138 Blue21 said:

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In comment 14348808 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: One, if the best offer Arizona gets for Rosen is a third they will just hold onto him. They don't have to trade him. Two, we have no future QB. The longer we wait, the higher the price becomes because we lose leverage. We can play it off like we will take Haskins early. No QB available at 37 is going to be on par with Rosen. And for those saying he sucked last year go back and look at Josh Allen and Sam Darnold. Rosen's numbers are right in line with them except he had the worst OL in football. Neither the Jets nor Buffalo are trading their QB. The 37th pick for Rosen is still a huge advantage in our favor. Our third round pick is basically a 3rd round compensatory pick. If that is the best offer that Arizona gets why wouldn't they just hold onto him for 3 more years as insurance and then get a comp pick when he leaves via FA? Totally agree robbie. Everyone talks like no one else is or will be interested. For the price he's getting paid and the little risk of getting him I'd be happy to get him for a 2 maybe even #17. Sy said he'd give up our 6 for him.

Well then it is a good thing he isn't the GM. Giving up the 6th pick in the draft for a guy that went 10th last year, and then looked like shit his rookie year would be a disaster.

I'm a pretty big Rosen critic and he showed me he can stick in the pocket and make the throws. What games were you watching?

In comment 14349199 UConn4523 said:

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I'm a pretty big Rosen critic and he showed me he can stick in the pocket and make the throws. What games were you watching?

I watched most of them play Atlanta, Green Bay, Oakland, and Denver, and then bits and pieces of other games (mostly for various fantasy implications).

What you are seeing as a guy sticking in the pocket and making the throws, I saw as a guy that was indecisive and late on his reads. I don't remember which game it was exactly, but during one of them I do remember texting my brother and saying "watching Rosen play is giving me bad flashbacks to my days watching Dave Brown."

I disagree with that assessment. But even given this, I think people forget that the Cardinals ran the ball under 3.5 ypc as a team for the year. Rosen is throwing to Fitz and then who else? David Johnson was the 2nd leading receiver with only 50 catches. Their backup RB Chase Edmonds had the 5th most catches with 20. The Cardinals O-Line was putrid, and the number of injuries and rotating of guys made them even worse.

1. Rosen's current salary is similar to some of the better back up Qbs in NFL (Bridgewater and Boles last year ) - so the absolute downside to trade is you immediately get a huge upgrade at backup QB.

2. Seems like the only rumblings right now are Pats -- they would trade pick #32 (and maybe other picks ) that means Giants #2 pick is #36 pick which is in ballpark of Pats 1st rounder ... and if everything is equal .. Cards would go with Giants .. No team wants to do a high profile trade with NE for fear of being wrong.

3.After this year Giants are officially in team rebuild mode .. you will have a guarantee starter with load salary for 2 years - if things don't work out then in 2021 you draft new QB starter .

Just seems like a no brainer for Giants ..

In comment 14348855 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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get the obsession with Rosen and what we would pay. Regardless of what we pay, if we try him at QB and he fails, we'll have wasted another couple of years. I don't see a realistic scenario where we get him and he comes in immediately and starts, and if he comes in, sits behind eli and plays next year, he's already another year closer to his second contract.

I would only do it if you plan to bring him in and play him in 2019. If he lights it up then great, we have our franchise QB, otherwise draft another in 2020.

And no more than our 3rd for Rosen. If the Cards are willing to move him after 1 year, he has to be viewed as tainted goods. Plus we would be on the hook for 6+ mil per year guaranteed for 2 more years. That weighs heavily on his value.

But you are right, if you plan to sit him for a year behind Eli, then it makes no sense because you haven't learned anything about him going into the 202 draft, and you don't know if you need to move on.

I don't think his head is in the right place.

But for a small enough investment, it would be worth a shot.

In comment 14348876 Jim in Tampa said:

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As soon as they draft Murray (or when they inform other teams that they're taking Murray and open to offers for Rosen) is just plain dumb. Like everyone else, I have no idea what offer AZ would accept to trade Rosen, but chances are multiple teams will be interested. And if that's the case, Rosen will be traded at his MARKET VALUE, not at some bargain price because people think that AZ has to trade him. Think of it this way. You just accepted an offer for your dream job, but it's out of state and you're going to have to sell your house ASAP. When your home goes on the market you get three offers within days. Do you lose leverage because you HAVE to sell or do you gain leverage because you have three bidders competing against one another to buy your home? And I also agree with Robbie. If AZ only gets low-ball offers they may choose to keep Rosen. They could actually let Murray sit for half the season (like Eli did) and start Rosen. And if Rosen showed improvement in year two his value would likely increase.

youre out of your mind if you think they have any leverage. if they take murray, rosen is a goner...no way they keep two guys like that and create a QB controversy when they have so many needs. they will sip rosen to highest bidder to get as many draft picks as possible to fill needs....