for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Garafolo: Huge Giants contingent had dinner with Haskins

Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/20/2019 7:38 am
last night...
https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1108330561196691457 - ( New Window )
Could  
Jon in NYC : 3/20/2019 7:40 am : link
easily be a smokescreen. They did the same thing with Murray I believe.
and the should  
mdthedream : 3/20/2019 7:40 am : link
They have to do there homework. Plus even if you want to trade for Rosen its the smart thing to do.
it probably went something like this...  
EricJ : 3/20/2019 7:40 am : link
I would hope so  
ZogZerg : 3/20/2019 7:40 am : link
Then need to see how healthy he eats;)
Also Matt Miller of Bleacher Report  
joeinpa : 3/20/2019 7:40 am : link
Reports no team did more work on Haskins than Giants
Well  
mdthedream : 3/20/2019 7:41 am : link
They can also look to trade up for Murray if Arizon goes another direction and picks say Bosa. They have to be ready for anything.
This is smoke and mirrors season  
crooza172 : 3/20/2019 7:44 am : link
The espn reporter that released the information that we are not interested is an absolute hoax. Teams dont have their draft boards set at the combine so the fact that there is a rumor we dont have interest is smoke and mirrors. This guy fits exactly what the giants want in a QB. Hes humble, big, pocket passer, grew up a giants fan, local kid, and is not a diva like Murray. Murrays attitude and demeanor is the thing that makes me thing they have zero interest in him even if by some miracle hes available at six. I still think Haskins is the pick if hes there at 6.
Please, NO!  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 3/20/2019 7:44 am : link
As the unofficial GM of the New York Football Giants, I say NO! emphatically to Dwayne Haskins.
As I continue to say,  
DonnieD89 : 3/20/2019 7:46 am : link
if PS and DG believe he is the future franchise QB, I will not be disappointed. They know better than most of us. My opinion of getting and edge rusher at #6 is not relevant, given that I am not a professional scout. Smokescreen or no smokescreen, they have to do their homework on Haskins.
Great  
The_Boss : 3/20/2019 7:46 am : link
👎🏽
I know of Haskins only what I've read in different scouting  
jcn56 : 3/20/2019 7:49 am : link
reports, which seem to be all over the place.

But if Haskins were to drop like a brick, say to the 17th pick or into the second round - does he become a viable option?
Nothing wrong  
Giantimistic : 3/20/2019 7:50 am : link
With doing your homework. The owners also met with Rosen last year if I am not mistaken.
Due Diligence  
Rick in Dallas : 3/20/2019 7:52 am : link
Everybody now assuming Haskins is the pick. Pump the brakes... Giants doing their homework on all potential first round picks.
I keep going back to DGs year end press conference... we need to fix the defense!!!!
So youd rather have Daniel freakin Jones?  
crooza172 : 3/20/2019 7:52 am : link
Id literally throw up in my mouth if we chose this bum in the first round. Would set us back a decade.
RE: This is smoke and mirrors season  
Blue21 : 3/20/2019 7:57 am : link
In comment 14348811 crooza172 said:
Quote:
The espn reporter that released the information that we are not interested is an absolute hoax. Teams dont have their draft boards set at the combine so the fact that there is a rumor we dont have interest is smoke and mirrors. This guy fits exactly what the giants want in a QB. Hes humble, big, pocket passer, grew up a giants fan, local kid, and is not a diva like Murray. Murrays attitude and demeanor is the thing that makes me thing they have zero interest in him even if by some miracle hes available at six. I still think Haskins is the pick if hes there at 6.


I agree. It wouldn't surprise me at all.
And they stuck him with the check  
jeff57 : 3/20/2019 7:59 am : link
.
If Shurmur sees franchise,  
Big Blue '56 : 3/20/2019 8:01 am : link
Im in
Slow feet  
SHO'NUFF : 3/20/2019 8:01 am : link
Haskins excused himself to the restroom and didn't return until the tab was paid.
I would rather trade with Miami for there first this year and next  
Chip : 3/20/2019 8:08 am : link
Let them tank next year with a rookie QB and we get Tua or Herbert with the first pick next season
It's lying season  
GiantsRage2007 : 3/20/2019 8:08 am : link
Nobody knows anything...

Didn't Reese make a couple picks on players they never even met with?

These meetings mean nothing
they want someone to jump up  
Dankbeerman : 3/20/2019 8:08 am : link
to take him and let someone drop to us
I think they're just dotting their I's...  
giants#1 : 3/20/2019 8:12 am : link
Shurmur has repeated several times that he prefers a mobile QB and while there's a lot to like about Haskins, he's anything but mobile.

RE: This is smoke and mirrors season  
BestFeature : 3/20/2019 8:16 am : link
In comment 14348811 crooza172 said:
Quote:
The espn reporter that released the information that we are not interested is an absolute hoax. Teams dont have their draft boards set at the combine so the fact that there is a rumor we dont have interest is smoke and mirrors. This guy fits exactly what the giants want in a QB. Hes humble, big, pocket passer, grew up a giants fan, local kid, and is not a diva like Murray. Murrays attitude and demeanor is the thing that makes me thing they have zero interest in him even if by some miracle hes available at six. I still think Haskins is the pick if hes there at 6.


Most of the things you mentioned (humble, grew up a Giants fan, local kid) have no bearing on anything, and the others (big and pocket passer) don't necessarily have any bearing on anything.
...  
christian : 3/20/2019 8:17 am : link
Really think how disturbing it would be if the Giants, in the QB situation they are in and with the 6th pick, didn't fully vet Haskins.
RE: I think they're just dotting their I's...  
Big Rick in FL : 3/20/2019 8:17 am : link
In comment 14348840 giants#1 said:
Quote:
Shurmur has repeated several times that he prefers a mobile QB and while there's a lot to like about Haskins, he's anything but mobile.


You have the quotes of him stating this? Thanks
RE: I think they're just dotting their I's...  
crooza172 : 3/20/2019 8:17 am : link
In comment 14348840 giants#1 said:
Quote:
Shurmur has repeated several times that he prefers a mobile QB and while there's a lot to like about Haskins, he's anything but mobile.


This comment is ridiculous. You see the QB they keep going back to right??
Not a smokescreen at all  
Jimmy Googs : 3/20/2019 8:20 am : link
they really ate dinner...
RE: If Shurmur sees franchise,  
Jimmy Googs : 3/20/2019 8:21 am : link
In comment 14348826 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Im in


So what do you think he saw in Lauletta?
From Haskins POV  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/20/2019 8:23 am : link
what a huge dinner. Giants have a top 6 pick, need a QB and is his favorite team. Hope he nails it.
They didn't bring Bosa along?  
barens : 3/20/2019 8:24 am : link
.
Albert Breer  
jvm52106 : 3/20/2019 8:25 am : link
saying Haskins not the best athlete, has an explosive arm, impressive thrower and more an old school QB. He needs to show better movement in pocket and avoid contact to get rid of the ball faster.

Breer says he could slip to middle of the round but depends on what happens with Murray. If Murray goes #1 then another team could get antsy and trade up (mentions Jets as target spot) to get him.
RE: Albert Breer  
jvm52106 : 3/20/2019 8:25 am : link
In comment 14348859 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
saying Haskins not the best athlete, has an explosive arm, impressive thrower and more an old school QB. He needs to show better movement in pocket and avoid contact to get rid of the ball faster.

Breer says he could slip to middle of the round but depends on what happens with Murray. If Murray goes #1 then another team could get antsy and trade up (mentions Jets as target spot) to get him.


I should have included, just said this now on Sirius with Ross Tucker and Charlie Weiss..
There hasn't been much talk about this possibility:  
ryanmkeane : 3/20/2019 8:30 am : link
we go defense at 6 and then trade up to get Haskins if he slips a little bit, we would include 17 and some later round picks.

I would absolutely be on board with that.
If Steve Tisch...  
bw in dc : 3/20/2019 8:31 am : link
says Haskins has unbelievable table manners and he was raised very well then scratch Haskins off the board.
I have a feeling...  
Strip-Sack : 3/20/2019 8:31 am : link
the Giants would love it if some team traded up in front of them for Haskins and pushed one of those blue chippers down a bit.
this is the time of year  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/20/2019 8:32 am : link
that QB draft prospects have their flaws magnified and their skills diminished. Giants are doing their due diligence. Everything else (they like him, he is off their board, they will trade up/down) is just noise.
RE: RE: I think they're just dotting their I's...  
joeinpa : 3/20/2019 8:34 am : link
In comment 14348850 crooza172 said:
Quote:
In comment 14348840 giants#1 said:


Quote:


Shurmur has repeated several times that he prefers a mobile QB and while there's a lot to like about Haskins, he's anything but mobile.


Also highlights of Haskins show much more mobility than what they have now.

Common sense says at 21 years of age he s a better athlete than Eli



This comment is ridiculous. You see the QB they keep going back to right??
I like Haskins  
Rflairr : 3/20/2019 8:35 am : link
But its just too much elite defensive talent at 6. This team desperately needs a playmaker on defense. Thats why I think trading for Rosen is the best option
I think if Giants ended up with  
ryanmkeane : 3/20/2019 8:38 am : link
Edge or White-Haskins-OL with our first 3 picks, that would be a great way to start this draft. If Gettleman could somehow pull that off without dealing away #37
Charlie Weiss will be breaking down Daniel Jones  
jvm52106 : 3/20/2019 8:39 am : link
on Sirius in a minute. The segment is called inside the pocket and Jones will be the subject.
Doesn't tell you much  
UberAlias : 3/20/2019 8:40 am : link
If the Giants wanted him, they would be motivated to keep things quiet. On the other hand, if they didn't want him, they would be motivated to have someone jump ahead of them for him, pushing another prospect back, and also want to reassure the fans of the legitimacy of their search for Eli's successor.
RE: I know of Haskins only what I've read in different scouting  
giantstock : 3/20/2019 8:41 am : link
In comment 14348816 jcn56 said:
Quote:
reports, which seem to be all over the place.

But if Haskins were to drop like a brick, say to the 17th pick or into the second round - does he become a viable option?


I hope GMEN don't take a QB just because he drops to rd 2. If they passed on him at 17 -- they can't be that high on him.
Reassure fans  
UberAlias : 3/20/2019 8:41 am : link
When they pass on a QB again, that is.
It doesn't have to be a smokescreen  
Mike from Ohio : 3/20/2019 8:43 am : link
or show they are in on taking him at #6. As with Murray, it shows they are doing their homework on both to develop as precise a rating as they can. It isn't as binary as they are taking him or not taking him.

Suppose after all the due diligence he lands somewhere around their 10th highest prospect. They go ahead and draft an edge rusher at #6 who has much higher value to them, but then they see Haskins still sitting there at #12 while Green Bay is on the clock. If they expect Miami may take him at 13, that may cause them to put in a call to Green Bay and inquire about trading up from #17 to #12 to get Haskins.

He's a QB and if drafted he becomes the face of the franchise so you have more people involved in the evaluation of the guy, but that does not necessarily mean they desperately want him or are conducting elaborate smokescreens.
Why are we still holding on so hard to that Shurmur quote?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2019 8:44 am : link
Its the same coach that couldn't stop praising Davis Webb.

Just because he claims to like the added benefit of a QB that can run doesn't mean it's the deciding factor in a QB evaluation.
They had dinner with  
Jolly Blue Giant : 3/20/2019 8:55 am : link
Rosen last year amoung others.....
RE: So youd rather have Daniel freakin Jones?  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/20/2019 8:56 am : link
In comment 14348821 crooza172 said:
Quote:
Id literally throw up in my mouth if we chose this bum in the first round. Would set us back a decade.

How would it set us back a decade? What an overreaction.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 8:56 am : link
If you really love Haskins, you don't play games and take a chance on him falling to 17 - you take him @ 6.

I realize there are defensive players that are going to be on the board there who will be really appealing, but if you're really sold on the QB, you have to take him @ 6. Don't get cute - that's how you get burned and lose your guy.

I'm not saying Haskins is or isn't the ideal choice @ 6. But if the Giants see him as a franchise QB - 6 is not too high to take him.
I think its hilarious when people say remote thrower or emphatic no  
nyballa0891 : 3/20/2019 8:56 am : link
In reference to Haskins. It makes me question whether youve actually put any work into evaluating the player or if you have your judgment in evaluating a player. Same thing happened with barkley last year people were screaming he was the next kijana carter or that he couldnt break tackles.

Im not saying you have to like haskins, but he has too many positive attributes to warrant remote thrower comments. Now if were talking daniel jones at 6 then i would understand, but Haskins is no Daniel Jones.
RE: this is the time of year  
AcidTest : 3/20/2019 8:59 am : link
In comment 14348871 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
that QB draft prospects have their flaws magnified and their skills diminished. Giants are doing their due diligence. Everything else (they like him, he is off their board, they will trade up/down) is just noise.


Agreed.
RE: I think its hilarious when people say remote thrower or emphatic no  
Mike from Ohio : 3/20/2019 9:00 am : link
In comment 14348917 nyballa0891 said:
Quote:
In reference to Haskins. It makes me question whether youve actually put any work into evaluating the player or if you have your judgment in evaluating a player. Same thing happened with barkley last year people were screaming he was the next kijana carter or that he couldnt break tackles.

Im not saying you have to like haskins, but he has too many positive attributes to warrant remote thrower comments. Now if were talking daniel jones at 6 then i would understand, but Haskins is no Daniel Jones.


So if people think Haskins suck, they don't know what they are looking at, but if people think Jones sucks, they are probably right?

I think you just did exactly what you were telling other people not to do.
I just don't see how you could be sold on 1 year of Haskins  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2019 9:01 am : link
playing college if the franchise was reportedly split on the available QBs last year.

RE: I just don't see how you could be sold on 1 year of Haskins  
crick n NC : 3/20/2019 9:04 am : link
In comment 14348934 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
playing college if the franchise was reportedly split on the available QBs last year.


Perhaps they see something different with Haskins, also Barkley was probably a factor as well. Not maNY players like him come available.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 9:06 am : link
I don't think it's really much of a stretch to think Haskins could be better than Allen (QB) or Lamar Jackson.

Mayfield, and to a lesser degree Darnold, are the only two guys I'm even remotely sold on from last year as it stands right now.
Good  
Matt in SGS : 3/20/2019 9:08 am : link
I want the Giants organization to do their homework. I still standby my belief the Giants must come out of this draft with a QB to transition to from Eli. The "KC Model" only works if there is a guy there to actually learn from Eli. If it's from the draft or a trade for Rosen, they have to do something.

Haskins rightfully should be considered and option and the Giants meeting with him is important in their evaluation. I'm happy to read this.

Now, I'm still in the camp that the Giants will sit at #6 and will pick a defensive player. I don't think Murray will get past Arizona and they will trade Rosen.

So for me the thought is:

- trade for Rosen with a target of a 3rd+
- Sit at 17 and see if Haskins/Lock/Jones falls to an area to trade up to get him in the early teens (and I reiterate that I do not want Jones at all).

I think those are the choices.

If the Giants pick Haskins/Lock at 6, I'll be somewhat annoyed, but can understand it if the Giants are sold that he will be the QB in 2020.

The remote thrower is if the Giants use their draft picks to trade up from 6 to get one of those guys. To me, that's a dumb move when Rosen is sitting there for much less. That would be a poor use of the Giants draft picks with so many holes to fill.
Haskins  
Archer : 3/20/2019 9:08 am : link
I am not in favor of drafting Haskins, however, the Giants must do their due diligence.

There can be no doubt about Haskins, this pick can change the course of the franchise.
The Giants must come away confident that Haskins can be a franchise QB.
Its called doing  
Beer Man : 3/20/2019 9:08 am : link
your due diligence. As for what the coach or GM says about this player or that, they generally say good things regardless of what they are thinking this time of year. We will know the truth on draft-day.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 9:09 am : link
I obviously like Rosen and would love for NYG to swing a deal for him - but I learned very little about him after his rookie year. He's basically still the same guy I thought he was coming out. Throws a great ball, excellent mechanics, has the tools - does lack mobility, the injury concern is still there and obviously not a flawless character, but nothing I'm not terribly worried about.
RE: RE: So youd rather have Daniel freakin Jones?  
crooza172 : 3/20/2019 9:10 am : link
In comment 14348912 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14348821 crooza172 said:


Quote:


Id literally throw up in my mouth if we chose this bum in the first round. Would set us back a decade.


How would it set us back a decade? What an overreaction.


Because I think Jones is Tannehill with a weaker arm. He sits behind Eli a year then starts the following year. They are stubborn and keep rolling him out there even though hes not close to elite (See Eli manning). By this time, its 2023, barkley is out of his Rookie deal and is going on 27, and we are starting over at QB again. Drafting a bust 1st rounder will set you back quite a while. Maybe its not a decade but it would take almost that long to be a superbowl contender again.
Forget Allen, who I don't think should've even been taken where he was  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2019 9:11 am : link
But simply by looking at what they did in college, Rosen and Darnold and even Jackson at least had a large number of starts and consistent high-level productivity to be able to look at and evaluate.

Taking a guy top ten based off just one full year of starts even as impressive as it was, has to be tough to make a convincing analysis.

RE: RE: If Shurmur sees franchise,  
McNally's_Nuts : 3/20/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14348854 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14348826 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


Im in



So what do you think he saw in Lauletta?


Seems like a ridiculous take, James.
We know the Giants want to groom a QB behind Eli  
Oscar : 3/20/2019 9:12 am : link
They could spin Haskins limited experience as an opportunity to pursue that plan. Honestly I would be fine with that although fans will want Haskins starting by midseason Im sure.

The Alex Smith/Pat Mahomes mentorship year went well because Smith was still a good player and the Chiefs were successful. I dont think the Giants are any threat to win the division in 2019.
RE: Why are we still holding on so hard to that Shurmur quote?  
DonnieD89 : 3/20/2019 9:12 am : link
In comment 14348891 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Its the same coach that couldn't stop praising Davis Webb.

Just because he claims to like the added benefit of a QB that can run doesn't mean it's the deciding factor in a QB evaluation.


TTH. Agree. Anything that has been done or not done, gives us no indication if we are taking the player of not, if available. We cannot read too much into anything. We will not find out until that pick is made.
nfldraftscout  
jeff57 : 3/20/2019 9:13 am : link
Dont believe the smokescreens. No team has done more work on Ohio State quarterback Dwayne Haskins than the NY Giants.
Link - ( New Window )
I know there is the crowd  
Beer Man : 3/20/2019 9:14 am : link
that says the Giants must go QB this year. But they really don't. If DG/PS don't feel there is a prospect in this year's draft (or Rosen) that they believe is the right guy to lead the franchise, they can wait until 2020. Based on the number of Oregon games that DG attended, I think they really wanted Herbert until he decided to stay in school. If nothing else, it gives you an idea of the type of QB they are looking for.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 9:15 am : link
Jackson still can't make all of the throws required of an NFL QB.

I don't have that same concern with Haskins.
RE: .  
crooza172 : 3/20/2019 9:19 am : link
In comment 14348959 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Jackson still can't make all of the throws required of an NFL QB.

I don't have that same concern with Haskins.


Agree. Jackson is a worse RG3 and living in Baltimore, has this fan base terrified.
RE: .  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14348959 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Jackson still can't make all of the throws required of an NFL QB.

I don't have that same concern with Haskins.


I get it now that we've seen Jackson at the pro level, but he won a Heisman and two player of the year awards, and led or finished on top of his conference in passing statistics in his final two seasons. It's not like he was some fringe player at the time.
RE: nfldraftscout  
Matt in SGS : 3/20/2019 9:21 am : link
In comment 14348953 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Dont believe the smokescreens. No team has done more work on Ohio State quarterback Dwayne Haskins than the NY Giants. Link - ( New Window )


I know Dave-Te runs hot and cold on here. I happen to enjoy his work and podcast and he provides good information and he's been pretty spot on so far this year with a few player and coaching moves.

His belief is that most teams prefer to bring in a QB with similar attributes to their current QB because you won't have to retrofit an entire offense to suit them and helps with continuity. Basically, you get your QB's skillset, only younger. Last year when the Browns signed Tyrod Taylor, he said that signaled they were going for Baker Mayfield because they can run a similar offense because their skillsets are generally the same (though Mayfield was superior).

Haskins' skillset is similar to Eli. A big, pocket passer with a strong arm, who can move a little bit but isn't going to be scrambling for anything. Basically Phil Simms, Kerry Collins, and Eli. All similar (though Simms ran a little more when he was younger). This is what you think of when you think of a Giants' QB. What made Hostetler so dangerous when he took over in 1990 was that he could run and that threw off teams preparation. Dave Brown believe it or not, was actually a decent scrambler. He had no weapons to work with and...well...he stunk otherwise.

It's rare you get a situation like in Baltimore where you go from a statue in Joe Flacco to Lamar Jackson. Bringing a Murray to the Giants would be similar.

Haskins is probably the "safest" pick for the Giants and they sit him behind Eli. I just don't want him at 6 and certainly not at a trade up before.
They had dinner with Darnold and Rosen too  
David B. : 3/20/2019 9:21 am : link
And didn't draft them.
Due diligence.
RE: If Shurmur sees franchise,  
Beezer : 3/20/2019 9:21 am : link
In comment 14348826 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Im in


For me, this.

These guys have so much more of a bead on this than any of us. Sure, they could get it wrong. But given last year's draft and what it looks like they're trying to do with this roster, if Haskins is the pick at 6, I'm on board.
I'm just glad that no one knows for sure  
Dnew15 : 3/20/2019 9:22 am : link
what the Giants are going to do - DG is better at this than JR ever was.

Of course - he did telegraph what they were doing at #2 last year - but it doesn't really matter when you pick #1 and the only team ahead of you is taking a QB.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 9:28 am : link
In comment 14348969 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14348959 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Jackson still can't make all of the throws required of an NFL QB.

I don't have that same concern with Haskins.



I get it now that we've seen Jackson at the pro level, but he won a Heisman and two player of the year awards, and led or finished on top of his conference in passing statistics in his final two seasons. It's not like he was some fringe player at the time.


I don't think this is new information, though - it was a concern going into the draft.

Petrino did a nice job maximizing what Jackson does best @ Louisville, but the outside hash throws have just never been something he excels at. The vast majority of the longer balls he hit on were in the middle of the field. He can hit on slants and posts, but having him throw outs or timing routes etc is still a no with him - he doesn't do those things well and Baltimore didn't want to ask him to even really attempt those throws at all.

So, with Jackson, they're going to have to work with a very limited playbook and utilize his legs until that stops working.

Obviously Jackson's ability as a runner trumps Haskins' by a very wide margin. But Haskins has an NFL arm - Jackson still has a lot of work to do there.
Lets put it this way:  
ryanmkeane : 3/20/2019 9:30 am : link
it seems pretty clear that Darnold is going to be really really good. If the Giants pass AGAIN this year, they better nail the QB next year, because if they dont, they really fucked this entire thing up beyond repair.
I hate his throwing motion, but Haskins is very accurate intermediate  
Eric on Li : 3/20/2019 9:33 am : link
he converted a lot of 3rd + 10's and can really put the ball in a position for his receivers to run after the catch. I could very well see him or Jones being the pick at either 6 or 17 or via some kind of trade.

I think his "explosive" arm strength is overrated, it looks fairly typical in what I've seen but there are certainly some throws that stand out. He also carries the risk of being a 1 year wonder and the fact that his stats were inflated by a system that generated a lot of big plays off screen passes. IMO Jones has a better motion, throws a better deep ball, and has more mobility while Haskins throws with more precision and certainly put up big numbers.

I watched his highlights of the loss against Purdue this year and came away more impressed from that than his big statistical game against michigan. His teammates dropped a lot of balls and he really hung in there and did everything he could to keep them in the Purdue game.
Haskins vs. Purdue - ( New Window )
.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 9:33 am : link
Darnold did a lot of good things, he also struggled badly in several games and missed a little time in year one due to injury.

I think he'll likely be the 2nd best QB in that class when all is said and done - but let's pump the brakes a bit. We can't just skip through the rest of his development and assume we know where it goes based on the limited exposure he's had to the league thus far.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2019 9:34 am : link
In comment 14348985 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14348969 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 14348959 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Jackson still can't make all of the throws required of an NFL QB.

I don't have that same concern with Haskins.



I get it now that we've seen Jackson at the pro level, but he won a Heisman and two player of the year awards, and led or finished on top of his conference in passing statistics in his final two seasons. It's not like he was some fringe player at the time.



I don't think this is new information, though - it was a concern going into the draft.

Petrino did a nice job maximizing what Jackson does best @ Louisville, but the outside hash throws have just never been something he excels at. The vast majority of the longer balls he hit on were in the middle of the field. He can hit on slants and posts, but having him throw outs or timing routes etc is still a no with him - he doesn't do those things well and Baltimore didn't want to ask him to even really attempt those throws at all.

So, with Jackson, they're going to have to work with a very limited playbook and utilize his legs until that stops working.

Obviously Jackson's ability as a runner trumps Haskins' by a very wide margin. But Haskins has an NFL arm - Jackson still has a lot of work to do there.


My overall point isn't so much a question of Jackson's ability, just that he played a lot games, it gives you a good base to decide what he can or can't do.

To have to judge whether Haskins is a franchise QB on 14 starts is a tough ask.

And this is not me being negative for the hell of it, but it IS relevant to the conversation that Gettleman has never been in the position of #1 decisionmaker on a franchise QB before.

I'm not sure that Shurmur has either.
Sounds like Russini got bad information  
BSIMatt : 3/20/2019 9:35 am : link
.
RE: Lets put it this way:  
Matt in SGS : 3/20/2019 9:36 am : link
In comment 14348990 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
it seems pretty clear that Darnold is going to be really really good. If the Giants pass AGAIN this year, they better nail the QB next year, because if they dont, they really fucked this entire thing up beyond repair.


They have 12 picks this year and Eli has not (yet) been extended. That they have spent time in the media tour with Gettleman to vigorously defend Eli and also toss out "KC Model" and that they will get a QB if things work out ideally, I think the Giants have set the table to draft a QB.

That Haskins only has 1 year playing college football. he turns 22 in May really makes it easy for the Giants to invest a high pick in him and tell the fan base he's gotta sit and learn from Eli. That he comes from a winning program that everyone has seen and just for fun, he's a Giants fan! (remember how that was mentioned about Golden Tate), all the boxes are checked for the Giants to sell to the fans an orderly transition from Eli to Haskins, without it seeming like he's got blood on his hands. And if we've seen anything since the 2017 benching, yes, this matters to Mara and the Giants organization. They will treat this whole thing with kid gloves to do it better than the way McAdoo handled it. Shurmur is no dummy, he will want to keep his job.

I think I just convinced myself they are getting Haskins...;)
RE: RE: I think its hilarious when people say remote thrower or emphatic no  
nyballa0891 : 3/20/2019 9:37 am : link
In comment 14348928 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 14348917 nyballa0891 said:


Quote:


So if people think Haskins suck, they don't know what they are looking at, but if people think Jones sucks, they are probably right?

I think you just did exactly what you were telling other people not to do.


Reading comprehension is key. I clearly said haskins has too many positive attributes in comparison to daniel jones to warrant those types of comments. Like Haskins or not, im positive the majority of people will agree on that .
.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 9:41 am : link
TTH - fair points, sample is smaller on Haskins - but I think one of the keys and things you'd want to see was steady improvement. And, he did display that as the year went on.

My biggest thing with him is he's got to get better at re-setting himself when he's forced out of the pocket and someone comes open and breaks off their route. He has a goofy way of throwing when he's on the move in certain directions and the ball can come ot funky.

His deep ball footwork could use some work, too.

He can sling it though. Not worried about his arm strength and he throws a really nice mid-range ball which is where most passes are going in the NFL right now. I think Shurmur would do pretty well with him, personally. But I understand the concerns people have and he's obviously not a lock to be a franchise QB.
I also imagine  
Mike from Ohio : 3/20/2019 9:42 am : link
that to some degree, being disappointed by Lauletta's attitude is causing them to focus a little more on character. Granted Lauletta was a 4th round pick and there is no way they did nearly as much homework, but it is still a black eye to take a developmental QB and essentially give up on him after one year. I am sure they took something away from that experience.
RE: RE: Lets put it this way:  
Bill L : 3/20/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14349005 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 14348990 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


it seems pretty clear that Darnold is going to be really really good. If the Giants pass AGAIN this year, they better nail the QB next year, because if they dont, they really fucked this entire thing up beyond repair.



They have 12 picks this year and Eli has not (yet) been extended. That they have spent time in the media tour with Gettleman to vigorously defend Eli and also toss out "KC Model" and that they will get a QB if things work out ideally, I think the Giants have set the table to draft a QB.

That Haskins only has 1 year playing college football. he turns 22 in May really makes it easy for the Giants to invest a high pick in him and tell the fan base he's gotta sit and learn from Eli. That he comes from a winning program that everyone has seen and just for fun, he's a Giants fan! (remember how that was mentioned about Golden Tate), all the boxes are checked for the Giants to sell to the fans an orderly transition from Eli to Haskins, without it seeming like he's got blood on his hands. And if we've seen anything since the 2017 benching, yes, this matters to Mara and the Giants organization. They will treat this whole thing with kid gloves to do it better than the way McAdoo handled it. Shurmur is no dummy, he will want to keep his job.

I think I just convinced myself they are getting Haskins...;)


I think that you just convinced me too.

And ruined my entire day.
Last 3 games  
Thegratefulhead : 3/20/2019 10:03 am : link
If you want to get excited about Haskins look at the last three games he played and circumstances surrounding those games. Rivalry game against Michigan he played great. Conference championship game, he was lights out. Bowl game he played extremely well. They won all three games he threw 14 TDS and one interception 1200 yards readings of 180,220 , 230 + QBRs of 86,95 and 96. Has limited starting experience but in his last three games the kid played lights out
There's way more of a compelling argument for Haskins  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2019 10:10 am : link
than Jones, I think.

I don't think you want to fall into the trap of putting too much weight on how good or bad the team around him was. We did the same thing with Josh Allen last year.

Eli Manning played for college teams with little to no talent around him too, but the difference he made on the field was a lot more tangible than Duke with Daniel Jones.
RE: RE: nfldraftscout  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/20/2019 10:12 am : link
In comment 14348973 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 14348953 jeff57 said:


Quote:


Dont believe the smokescreens. No team has done more work on Ohio State quarterback Dwayne Haskins than the NY Giants. Link - ( New Window )



I know Dave-Te runs hot and cold on here. I happen to enjoy his work and podcast and he provides good information and he's been pretty spot on so far this year with a few player and coaching moves.

His belief is that most teams prefer to bring in a QB with similar attributes to their current QB because you won't have to retrofit an entire offense to suit them and helps with continuity. Basically, you get your QB's skillset, only younger. Last year when the Browns signed Tyrod Taylor, he said that signaled they were going for Baker Mayfield because they can run a similar offense because their skillsets are generally the same (though Mayfield was superior).

Haskins' skillset is similar to Eli. A big, pocket passer with a strong arm, who can move a little bit but isn't going to be scrambling for anything. Basically Phil Simms, Kerry Collins, and Eli. All similar (though Simms ran a little more when he was younger). This is what you think of when you think of a Giants' QB. What made Hostetler so dangerous when he took over in 1990 was that he could run and that threw off teams preparation. Dave Brown believe it or not, was actually a decent scrambler. He had no weapons to work with and...well...he stunk otherwise.

It's rare you get a situation like in Baltimore where you go from a statue in Joe Flacco to Lamar Jackson. Bringing a Murray to the Giants would be similar.

Haskins is probably the "safest" pick for the Giants and they sit him behind Eli. I just don't want him at 6 and certainly not at a trade up before.

Logical enough, a rational plan by the Browns,, but we're all discombobulated with half baked ideas of Mara/Tisch with Eli in two WCO regimes, possibly lookin at Haskins who also would not fit the scheme and personnel.
RE: .  
seanr : 3/20/2019 10:16 am : link
In comment 14348913 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
If you really love Haskins, you don't play games and take a chance on him falling to 17 - you take him @ 6.

I realize there are defensive players that are going to be on the board there who will be really appealing, but if you're really sold on the QB, you have to take him @ 6. Don't get cute - that's how you get burned and lose your guy.

I'm not saying Haskins is or isn't the ideal choice @ 6. But if the Giants see him as a franchise QB - 6 is not too high to take him.


I agree
RE: Lets put it this way:  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/20/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14348990 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
it seems pretty clear that Darnold is going to be really really good. If the Giants pass AGAIN this year, they better nail the QB next year, because if they dont, they really fucked this entire thing up beyond repair.

Seems pretty clear to Joe Beningo and throngs of worshipful Bbi Jets fans.

Let's Play Is it Andy Dalton or Darnold rookie year qbr?
77.6 or 80.4
RE: RE: Lets put it this way:  
Rjanyg : 3/20/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14349005 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 14348990 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


it seems pretty clear that Darnold is going to be really really good. If the Giants pass AGAIN this year, they better nail the QB next year, because if they dont, they really fucked this entire thing up beyond repair.



They have 12 picks this year and Eli has not (yet) been extended. That they have spent time in the media tour with Gettleman to vigorously defend Eli and also toss out "KC Model" and that they will get a QB if things work out ideally, I think the Giants have set the table to draft a QB.

That Haskins only has 1 year playing college football. he turns 22 in May really makes it easy for the Giants to invest a high pick in him and tell the fan base he's gotta sit and learn from Eli. That he comes from a winning program that everyone has seen and just for fun, he's a Giants fan! (remember how that was mentioned about Golden Tate), all the boxes are checked for the Giants to sell to the fans an orderly transition from Eli to Haskins, without it seeming like he's got blood on his hands. And if we've seen anything since the 2017 benching, yes, this matters to Mara and the Giants organization. They will treat this whole thing with kid gloves to do it better than the way McAdoo handled it. Shurmur is no dummy, he will want to keep his job.

I think I just convinced myself they are getting Haskins...;)


I agree Haskins seems like the obvious pick. The issue most of us are having with Haskins is all the defensive talent available with that pick.

To me, Haskins, Lock or a trade for Rosen are all good options. In fact, I would prefer trading for Rosen and going Defense with #6 and OL with #17.
RE: If Shurmur sees franchise,  
bradshaw44 : 3/20/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14348826 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Im in


This. I don't particularly like Haskins but I'm not a scout or GM. If they think he can be the guy then go for it. Everyone keeps saying they want us to pick a QB, well this could be it.

Or they are just doing their do diligence to makes sure they aren't missing out. And again, that's a good thing.
RE: Lets put it this way:  
Mike in NJ : 3/20/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14348990 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
it seems pretty clear that Darnold is going to be really really good. If the Giants pass AGAIN this year, they better nail the QB next year, because if they dont, they really fucked this entire thing up beyond repair.


Where is this coming from? Darnold looked pretty bad for most of last season. People have gotten all over Josh Rosen for how he played last year, Darnold wasn't much better. Honestly from what I saw of him, I thought Josh Allen looked like he has more upside than Darnold does.

At this point the only QB from last year that I think you can confidently say is going to be "really, really good" is Baker Mayfield.
RE: There's way more of a compelling argument for Haskins  
Eric on Li : 3/20/2019 10:42 am : link
In comment 14349058 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
than Jones, I think.

I don't think you want to fall into the trap of putting too much weight on how good or bad the team around him was. We did the same thing with Josh Allen last year.

Eli Manning played for college teams with little to no talent around him too, but the difference he made on the field was a lot more tangible than Duke with Daniel Jones.


Not to open a can of worms, but I do agree there are similarities between the level of talent Eli and Jones played with. Eli led Ole Miss to their first winning seasons + bowl games in a very long time. Jones won 2 consecutive bowl games at duke when they had only won 1 in the previous 50+ years. I know comparing anything QB related to Eli right now is a hot button issue, but I do think this is among their similarities.

The difference between Jones and Josh Allen last year is that Allen didn't play Clemson or Miami on the road. Those 2 performances against defenses comprised entirely of NFL talent go a long way in my mind.
Not sure how significant this is  
pjcas18 : 3/20/2019 10:46 am : link
I was reading a tweet briefly that said something like the Giants never even met with Barkley outside of the combine and I thought I read they didn't attend his pro day.

like i said it was brief, so I might be slightly off, but I think that was the gist of it.

RE: RE: If Shurmur sees franchise,  
Big Blue '56 : 3/20/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14348854 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14348826 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


Im in



So what do you think he saw in Lauletta?


Youre comparing a 4th round pick with a possible #6 in the entire draft?
RE: .  
Big Blue '56 : 3/20/2019 10:51 am : link
In comment 14348996 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Darnold did a lot of good things, he also struggled badly in several games and missed a little time in year one due to injury.

I think he'll likely be the 2nd best QB in that class when all is said and done - but let's pump the brakes a bit. We can't just skip through the rest of his development and assume we know where it goes based on the limited exposure he's had to the league thus far.


Plus hell certainly be helped A LOT by having Bell as his RB, assuming he hasnt lost much
RE: RE: Lets put it this way:  
PatersonPlank : 3/20/2019 10:52 am : link
In comment 14349078 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14348990 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


it seems pretty clear that Darnold is going to be really really good. If the Giants pass AGAIN this year, they better nail the QB next year, because if they dont, they really fucked this entire thing up beyond repair.


Seems pretty clear to Joe Beningo and throngs of worshipful Bbi Jets fans.

Let's Play Is it Andy Dalton or Darnold rookie year qbr?
77.6 or 80.4


Right now all I see is average JAG QB out of Darnold, which would be a huge waste to pick at #3. I see superstar out of Barkley.
Part of the projection with Darnold  
Oscar : 3/20/2019 10:57 am : link
Is that hes so young and already showed he can play decent football at the NFL level. Hes younger than most or all of the guys in this draft class and hes only nine months older than Tua whos not even draft eligible until next year. I dont think hes a sure thing like Baker but I would bet Darnold is a top 10 QB for the next decade.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14349163 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14348996 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Darnold did a lot of good things, he also struggled badly in several games and missed a little time in year one due to injury.

I think he'll likely be the 2nd best QB in that class when all is said and done - but let's pump the brakes a bit. We can't just skip through the rest of his development and assume we know where it goes based on the limited exposure he's had to the league thus far.



Plus hell certainly be helped A LOT by having Bell as his RB, assuming he hasnt lost much


I'm very interested in seeing what Le'Veon looks like after a year off. He looked like he was in kind of crappy shape when I saw photos of him during last year, etc.

I'm sure he's still got gas in the tank. But PIT knew he wasn't going to be there long-term and they had him shoulder some very heavy loads when he was playing. Good bit of wear on those treads.
RE: I hate his throwing motion, but Haskins is very accurate intermediate  
HomerJones45 : 3/20/2019 11:14 am : link
In comment 14348995 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
he converted a lot of 3rd + 10's and can really put the ball in a position for his receivers to run after the catch. I could very well see him or Jones being the pick at either 6 or 17 or via some kind of trade.

I think his "explosive" arm strength is overrated, it looks fairly typical in what I've seen but there are certainly some throws that stand out. He also carries the risk of being a 1 year wonder and the fact that his stats were inflated by a system that generated a lot of big plays off screen passes. IMO Jones has a better motion, throws a better deep ball, and has more mobility while Haskins throws with more precision and certainly put up big numbers.

I watched his highlights of the loss against Purdue this year and came away more impressed from that than his big statistical game against michigan. His teammates dropped a lot of balls and he really hung in there and did everything he could to keep them in the Purdue game. Haskins vs. Purdue - ( New Window )
Would that be the same Purdue team that got blown out 63-14 by Auburn whose qb hit 15 of 21 passes for 373 yards and 5 td's?

Not sure I would be using Purdue game highlights.

Btw, Haskins' backup hit 23 of 28 passes for 269 yards during the season. Small sample size but was Haskins Ohio State or was Haskins the beneficiary of overwhelming personnel (like 2 1,000 yard running backs) superiority on the part of the Ohio State?
Ohio State had one of the worst red zone offenses in the nation  
Go Terps : 3/20/2019 11:16 am : link
Enormous red flag.

IMO Haskins has got Brock Osweiler written all over him.
Everyone wants to compare to last year....  
Jarvis : 3/20/2019 11:17 am : link
Who the Giants met with, had dinner with...dindt have dinner with. I agree if you base it on last year, we did way more work on the QBs than on Barkley.

However, it is a different situation this year. For 1, Eli is now down to the final year ion his contract and we are coming off another poor season. 2, Barkley was as close to a no brainer as it gets in regards to his talent. Even the people that were for a QB and against drafting RB couldnt deny his talent. It was more of a positional value debate. It seems to me that they always had Barkley as number 1 and did the work not he QBs just to see if they were missing something that would make the QBs jump Barkley...they didnt. It wasnt a smokescreen, it was due diligence.

This year we are doing due diligence again, but there isnt a no brainer pick at 6 unless one of the 3 elite defenders falls there (unlikely). I highly doubt thats they view Sweat or White in the same way the viewed Barkley. Of course dinners and pro day attendance doesnt mean we are drafting a QB, but i wouldnt dismiss it at 6.
the transitive property rarely works in cfb or nfl  
Eric on Li : 3/20/2019 11:17 am : link
x lost to y and y lost z so x must be terrible.

Bottom line there is stuff to like about both Haskins and Jones IMO. And there's also stuff to not like. But at the end of the day it's binary and I think either of them would be great to add.
RE: They had dinner with Darnold and Rosen too  
Pan-handler : 3/20/2019 11:21 am : link
In comment 14348975 David B. said:
Quote:
And didn't draft them.
Due diligence.


Thorough establishing of their potential value to the team.

They did it last year with a few of the QBs.

RE: Ohio State had one of the worst red zone offenses in the nation  
Heisenberg : 3/20/2019 11:21 am : link
In comment 14349234 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Enormous red flag.

IMO Haskins has got Brock Osweiler written all over him.


WHAT? Osweiler? Weird comp, dude.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 11:23 am : link
Osweiler?

Not seeing that comparison at all.

Osweiler was actually surprisingly athletic for a guy his size - and he's like 3" taller than Haskins. Different skillsets, different programs and Osweiler was never as productive in college despite being a 2 year starter.

Osweiler was thought of as more of a "gunslinger" and not nearly as cerebral as Haskins is.

OSU RZ production was poor - but their general production otherwise wasn't at all.

Haskins is going to have things he needs to improve on - that just comes with the territory. We can find flags on every QB in this draft, just like we'll be able to find them next year too.

I can tell you already that people are going to probably make a big deal about Tua's knee, playing with such great players around him, etc.. and he'll start to get torn apart and discounted the same way.
One of the guys that theyve really scouted the heck out of  
Pan-handler : 3/20/2019 11:29 am : link
Is Jaylon Ferguson. The interesting part is perhaps they feel he can be had at 17 and have similar upside of the top guys in this draft.

And the other guy I keep seeing pop up is Cody Ford.


-Haskins at 6
-Jaylon at 17 (he goes here because there are a ton of OTs in this draft but the edge rushers thin out quick after the big run on them in the top 10)
-Cody at 37 (or with a slight trade up) if not Cody then Risner. Or whoever the last available OT on your higher tier that is left.
Haskins  
Joey in VA : 3/20/2019 11:36 am : link
Arm is reason enough to do the work. Stripped down, if you watched the QBs throw at the combine it was Haskins and everyone else. Lock has a cannon but Haskins is a gifted thrower, it's really his mobility in the pocket and pocket awareness that are the questions.
Matt  
ryanmkeane : 3/20/2019 11:40 am : link
I like Haskins a lot. But if we draft him at 6 and then wait on the defense, the team is still going to be bad.

That being said, Haskins at 6 and then defense at 17 and 37 is not a bad backup plan.

I'm more inclined to like defense at 6, then trade up for Haskins if he slips a tad, without giving up #37
They were always going to meet with and vet all the top guys  
Torrag : 3/20/2019 11:43 am : link
They'd be foolish not too simply from a leverage standpoint if trade opportunities present themselves. Personally I like Haskins a lot, more than Murray in fact. When taking into account everything I've seen from video on and off the field I just feel he'll have a better chance to fulfill his potential. Even if the Giants feel the same way he may or may not be the selection. None of these QB prospects are a funished product. There is always some projected development to the next level that will ultimately determine how good they will become.
I see Alex Smith with Haskins  
Eric on Li : 3/20/2019 11:45 am : link
he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.

Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.
RE: Haskins  
Thegratefulhead : 3/20/2019 11:45 am : link
In comment 14349295 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Arm is reason enough to do the work. Stripped down, if you watched the QBs throw at the combine it was Haskins and everyone else. Lock has a cannon but Haskins is a gifted thrower, it's really his mobility in the pocket and pocket awareness that are the questions.
Yup.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 11:47 am : link
Alex Smith has won a lot of football games in the NFL - he's actually not a bad outcome at all.

He never lived up to his draft billing, and being taken before Aaron Rodgers will make it look even worse - but Smith really wound up carving out a nice career.

That said - I think Smith is a bit more mobile than Haskins - but I think Haskins has a higher ceiling as a pocket passer and can be a better dropback QB.
RE: Haskins  
mittenedman : 3/20/2019 11:48 am : link
In comment 14349295 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Arm is reason enough to do the work. Stripped down, if you watched the QBs throw at the combine it was Haskins and everyone else. Lock has a cannon but Haskins is a gifted thrower, it's really his mobility in the pocket and pocket awareness that are the questions.


Yes I think the Kerry Collins comparisons are very good. If you let Haskins just sit there and throw, he'll shred you.
RE: I see Alex Smith with Haskins  
mittenedman : 3/20/2019 11:50 am : link
In comment 14349314 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.

Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.


Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/20/2019 11:51 am : link

Aditi Kinkhabwala
‏Verified account @AKinkhabwala

The #Giants contingent here at @OhioStateFB Pro Day is very strong. The folks from NJ took QB Dwayne Haskins to dinner last night and from what I was just told, were very impressed by him and his intelligence.
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 3/20/2019 11:51 am : link
In comment 14349319 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Alex Smith has won a lot of football games in the NFL - he's actually not a bad outcome at all.

He never lived up to his draft billing, and being taken before Aaron Rodgers will make it look even worse - but Smith really wound up carving out a nice career.

That said - I think Smith is a bit more mobile than Haskins - but I think Haskins has a higher ceiling as a pocket passer and can be a better dropback QB.


I agree all around. The biggest challenge evaluating a college guy with 15 career starts, probably 10 of them against crappy teams who were totally outclassed, is determining the upside. He threw a ton of screen passes and was in a system that hasn't produced pro qbs. I think he sees the field and is pretty good short + intermediate despite the sidearm motion. Deep is a little more iffy so there's upside (and downside). Had he stayed in school for another year or two the comp could have been Drew Brees.
As Joey said pocket mobility and awareness  
.McL. : 3/20/2019 11:52 am : link
might be issues with him...

But overall I am with TTH on this one.

Just not enough games.

THe example I like to use is Herbert. Coming into this year, everybody thought Herbert was the next great thing. Some may still think so, but in general I think there is some tarnish on his star. From about game start 18 and on he struggled. I believe that part of his struggle was that teams caught on that he was a 1 read and run guy. Teams started defending that, and Herbert couldn't adjust. I have never seen Herbert as a guy that confidently goes through progressions and that's a problem for the NFL. But it wasn't obvious until after game start 18 or so...

With Haskins, we have only 14 starts, defenses haven't had an off season to adjust to hi. Plus he had significantly more time in the pocket to go through his progressions than he will get in the NFL. Can he do it at NFL speed? Don't know. Will his mechanics suffer at NFL speed? Don't know. Does he have the appropriate clock in his head for NFL speed? Don't know...

It's all the don't knows that scare me off Haskins.
This is not reality in the NFL  
Go Terps : 3/20/2019 11:52 am : link
Quote:
If you let Haskins just sit there and throw, he'll shred you.
RE: RE: .  
.McL. : 3/20/2019 11:53 am : link
In comment 14349335 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14349319 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Alex Smith has won a lot of football games in the NFL - he's actually not a bad outcome at all.

He never lived up to his draft billing, and being taken before Aaron Rodgers will make it look even worse - but Smith really wound up carving out a nice career.

That said - I think Smith is a bit more mobile than Haskins - but I think Haskins has a higher ceiling as a pocket passer and can be a better dropback QB.



I agree all around. The biggest challenge evaluating a college guy with 15 career starts, probably 10 of them against crappy teams who were totally outclassed, is determining the upside. He threw a ton of screen passes and was in a system that hasn't produced pro qbs. I think he sees the field and is pretty good short + intermediate despite the sidearm motion. Deep is a little more iffy so there's upside (and downside). Had he stayed in school for another year or two the comp could have been Drew Brees.

He threw a ton of screens, and short mesh crossing patterns. Those really do make up the majority of his work.
RE: RE: I see Alex Smith with Haskins  
Eric on Li : 3/20/2019 11:56 am : link
In comment 14349332 mittenedman said:
Quote:
In comment 14349314 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.

Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.



Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.


A higher percentage of Haskins yards came from throws under 10 yards than any QB in the country. I'm not saying he can't throw deep balls, just that he wasn't in a downfield offense. It was a short passing offense that he ran very efficiently. How he adjusts to more of a pro style downfield attack is the question. I'm not predicting either way, I think he has the talent that he could adjust well or he could adjust poorly.
RE: This is not reality in the NFL  
.McL. : 3/20/2019 11:57 am : link
In comment 14349341 Go Terps said:
Quote:


Quote:


If you let Haskins just sit there and throw, he'll shred you.


Not the reality in the NFL and even moreso with the Giant's OL... This OL ain't there yet.
great so they  
BigBlueCane : 3/20/2019 11:58 am : link
can waste the #6 pick on a dud in Haskins who doesn't have it and did not look impressive the one time he faced adversity as a starter.
RE: This is not reality in the NFL  
mittenedman : 3/20/2019 11:58 am : link
In comment 14349341 Go Terps said:
Quote:


Quote:


If you let Haskins just sit there and throw, he'll shred you.



No it isn't. I'm just saying he's similar to KC in that way.
RE: RE: RE: I see Alex Smith with Haskins  
.McL. : 3/20/2019 11:58 am : link
In comment 14349349 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14349332 mittenedman said:


Quote:


In comment 14349314 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.

Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.



Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.



A higher percentage of Haskins yards came from throws under 10 yards than any QB in the country. I'm not saying he can't throw deep balls, just that he wasn't in a downfield offense. It was a short passing offense that he ran very efficiently. How he adjusts to more of a pro style downfield attack is the question. I'm not predicting either way, I think he has the talent that he could adjust well or he could adjust poorly.

His receivers are top notch, but I will give Haskins credit for making the right read and delivering the ball to the right guy who could make the most YAC...
RE: Please, NO!  
Bramton1 : 3/20/2019 11:59 am : link
In comment 14348812 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
As the unofficial GM of the New York Football Giants, I say NO! emphatically to Dwayne Haskins.


And I say NO! emphatically to Josh Rosen.
OSU and red zone offense  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/20/2019 12:07 pm : link
While Urban tweaked his offense well for Haskins, he never figured out how to not have a mobile QB in the red zone. Generally when he gets down there its his go-to using his QB as a running option.
mittenedman  
Go Terps : 3/20/2019 12:08 pm : link
The Kerry Collins comparison is apt. Collins was also brutal in the red zone because his feet were so slow.

I'm probably in the minority but if it's between Haskins or Daniel Jones, I'd go with Jones.
What seems clear to me is that the Giants are a year late  
Go Terps : 3/20/2019 12:10 pm : link
The prospects last year were much more appealing IMO.
Jones over Haskins  
BigBlueCane : 3/20/2019 12:10 pm : link
is my preference if its between those two for various reasons: Jones is more apt to fit Shurmer's system and he's likely to be cheaper as a late first round pick or a 2nd round pick.
RE: great so they  
bw in dc : 3/20/2019 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14349356 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
can waste the #6 pick on a dud in Haskins who doesn't have it and did not look impressive the one time he faced adversity as a starter.


Cane is back!!!!
RE: Jones over Haskins  
bw in dc : 3/20/2019 12:20 pm : link
In comment 14349396 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
is my preference if its between those two for various reasons: Jones is more apt to fit Shurmer's system and he's likely to be cheaper as a late first round pick or a 2nd round pick.


Alas, Cane is only partially back...
RE: They had dinner with Darnold and Rosen too  
BSIMatt : 3/20/2019 12:21 pm : link
In comment 14348975 David B. said:
Quote:
And didn't draft them.
Due diligence.


This is true, but I'll add..the Giants are drafting 6th, not 2nd..and there's no Saquon Barkley in this draft.
RE: RE: RE: I see Alex Smith with Haskins  
Pan-handler : 3/20/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14349349 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14349332 mittenedman said:


Quote:


In comment 14349314 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.

Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.



Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.



A higher percentage of Haskins yards came from throws under 10 yards than any QB in the country. I'm not saying he can't throw deep balls, just that he wasn't in a downfield offense. It was a short passing offense that he ran very efficiently. How he adjusts to more of a pro style downfield attack is the question. I'm not predicting either way, I think he has the talent that he could adjust well or he could adjust poorly.


System called for it and there was a detailed breakdown of his deep ball accuracy showing that it was still pretty good.
RE: As Joey said pocket mobility and awareness  
bw in dc : 3/20/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14349338 .McL. said:
Quote:

THe example I like to use is Herbert. Coming into this year, everybody thought Herbert was the next great thing. Some may still think so, but in general I think there is some tarnish on his star. From about game start 18 and on he struggled. I believe that part of his struggle was that teams caught on that he was a 1 read and run guy. Teams started defending that, and Herbert couldn't adjust. I have never seen Herbert as a guy that confidently goes through progressions and that's a problem for the NFL. But it wasn't obvious until after game start 18 or so...



I was off Herbert early because the hype didn't match the game day production. But it's very clear that Herbert has a ton of tools. He's a terrific, gited athlete and I'm really interested to see how h progresses this year.

I'll say this. I think Herbert, like almost all college QBs, would also look very good with the Buckeye offense last year. That were loaded.
RE: RE: They had dinner with Darnold and Rosen too  
Jimmy Googs : 3/20/2019 12:41 pm : link
In comment 14349420 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
In comment 14348975 David B. said:


Quote:


And didn't draft them.
Due diligence.



This is true, but I'll add..the Giants are drafting 6th, not 2nd..and there's no Saquon Barkley in this draft.


maybe there is and he just doesn't play RB...
I think  
Amtoft : 3/20/2019 12:42 pm : link
Haskins runs in the 4.8 range today. He isn't fast, but he isn't over 5 QB.
RE: I think  
bw in dc : 3/20/2019 12:50 pm : link
In comment 14349450 Amtoft said:
Quote:
Haskins runs in the 4.8 range today. He isn't fast, but he isn't over 5 QB.


Funny you bring this up. After all the great times at the Combine by the DLs and others, it was suggested in some circles that the Indy surface was "souped-up" to produce faster results. Some of the times this year caught a lot of people off guard - in terms of being better than expected...
RE: What seems clear to me is that the Giants are a year late  
Eric on Li : 3/20/2019 12:54 pm : link
In comment 14349395 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The prospects last year were much more appealing IMO.


Mayfield/Darnold yes, the others no. But they didn't have a shot at Mayfield. Darnold's tools are better vs. Jones/Haskins, but I'm not sure if he has the field vision either of those 2 have. He was much more mistake prone in college. Are Haskins/Jones + Barkley > Darnold? I'd probably hedge and say yes if you're asking to pick which group I'd rather have as a fan.
He's a Jersey boy  
Jay in Toronto : 3/20/2019 1:07 pm : link
of course they would take him out to dinner.

;)
RE: RE: RE: They had dinner with Darnold and Rosen too  
BSIMatt : 3/20/2019 1:08 pm : link
In comment 14349447 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14349420 BSIMatt said:


Quote:


In comment 14348975 David B. said:


Quote:


And didn't draft them.
Due diligence.



This is true, but I'll add..the Giants are drafting 6th, not 2nd..and there's no Saquon Barkley in this draft.



maybe there is and he just doesn't play RB...



I meant that as a prospect that stood out like Saquon, regardless of position. Bosa and Williams aren't graded, or regarded as highly as Barkley was coming out. The only thing that put the quarterbacks in discussion with Saquon was positional importance. None of the quarterbacks as pure prospects carried a grade anywhere near him, he was in his own tier..but they were quarterbacks and because of the importance of the position, they were in the discussion.


Carry that forward to this year, at 6 slot, I'm not sure a prospect is there that clearly distinguishes himself like that for the Giants, and Haskins grade seems to be right in the mix with last years group of quarterbacks.
Are Haskins/Jones + Barkley > Darnold?  
Torrag : 3/20/2019 1:10 pm : link
Interesting way to look at it and I agree. I'd rather have Barkley/Haskins than Darnold/White-Sweat-etc.
I Think Haskins Will Be Great  
Giants38 : 3/20/2019 1:17 pm : link
So I hope hes the pick. I think his improvement from start 1 to start 14 was noticeable. Part of the reason he didnt face pressure was his ability to identify it pre-snap and adjust line assignments. Thats incredible for such an inexperienced guy. A guy with his arm talent and his intelligence and football smarts - which dont appear in question - will not fail. Im confident the guy is going to be a stud.

Incidentally, a guy many of us wanted as GM last year - Louis Riddick - is attending the OSU pro day (and only this pro day), to watch his top ranked QB in action.

Yes, the red zone troubles are an issue. But his accuracy at all levels and even under pressure - as shown by Ian Whartons chart - is incredible. Yes, many of you try to poke holes in it. But the guy is a stud in my book.
That gal reporter who tried to definitively state  
BlueLou'sBack : 3/20/2019 1:22 pm : link
that the Giants had no interest in Haskins at 6 got played. As did a few others preaching that line.

Like it or lump it, Haskins is in serious consideration at 6, and that's not smoke. No way the contingent Mike G noted, Shurmur, Shula, Chris Mara, Chris Petit and whomever else he mentioned are holding private meetings and dinner with Haskins to blow smoke up anyone's ASS.

That just ain't happening.
RE: That gal reporter who tried to definitively state  
BSIMatt : 3/20/2019 1:24 pm : link
In comment 14349548 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
that the Giants had no interest in Haskins at 6 got played. As did a few others preaching that line.

Like it or lump it, Haskins is in serious consideration at 6, and that's not smoke. No way the contingent Mike G noted, Shurmur, Shula, Chris Mara, Chris Petit and whomever else he mentioned are holding private meetings and dinner with Haskins to blow smoke up anyone's ASS.

That just ain't happening.


Exactly, Actions speak louder than words.
RE: RE: What seems clear to me is that the Giants are a year late  
Go Terps : 3/20/2019 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14349470 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14349395 Go Terps said:


Quote:


The prospects last year were much more appealing IMO.



Mayfield/Darnold yes, the others no. But they didn't have a shot at Mayfield. Darnold's tools are better vs. Jones/Haskins, but I'm not sure if he has the field vision either of those 2 have. He was much more mistake prone in college. Are Haskins/Jones + Barkley > Darnold? I'd probably hedge and say yes if you're asking to pick which group I'd rather have as a fan.


I don't agree with your assessment of this year's QBs...particularly Haskins. I don't want any part of a QB with shitty feet, and Haskins has shitty feet.

Darnold + Devin White is better than Haskins/Jones + Barkley by quite a bit, in my view. With the former I've got the guys that are going to run my offense and defense. Bedrock players. With the latter I've got a QB with either shitty feet or a weak arm and a running back. No comparison.
RE: RE: I think  
Amtoft : 3/20/2019 1:35 pm : link
In comment 14349459 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14349450 Amtoft said:


Quote:


Haskins runs in the 4.8 range today. He isn't fast, but he isn't over 5 QB.



Funny you bring this up. After all the great times at the Combine by the DLs and others, it was suggested in some circles that the Indy surface was "souped-up" to produce faster results. Some of the times this year caught a lot of people off guard - in terms of being better than expected...


I think Ohio State has a fast track and I think he did have issues with his legs cramping. He also looked a little out of shape. I would expect they spent a lot of time working on him running faster. He isn't fast at all though, but he pretty good feet in my opinion.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 1:35 pm : link
Funny... Louis Riddick is talking about how Haskins is displaying good footwork right now during his pro day.

He does have questions about his footwork, but it's in specific areas and instances. To say he just has shitty footwork in general is lazy and not true.

His biggest footwork questions are on his deep ball and how he resets himself when he's forced out of the pocket.

His standard pocket footwork really isn't much of a problem and isn't nearly as bad as I think you're making it seem
Everyone looks great in their pro day  
Go Terps : 3/20/2019 1:39 pm : link
Let's see how he looks in the NFL against A gap pressure with Fletcher Cox pressuring in the A gap.

It isn't lazy to say he has shitty feet. It's the truth, it's backed up by analysts all over the place, and it was borne out on the field by Ohio State being one of the worst red zone teams in the country. No thanks on this guy.
Yikes  
Go Terps : 3/20/2019 1:40 pm : link
Say "A gap" again, dickhead. Typing on your phone sucks sometimes.
And Haskins is going into the shop for a year  
Oscar : 3/20/2019 1:40 pm : link
If he comes to the Giants. They can address any bad habits.
RE: RE: As Joey said pocket mobility and awareness  
.McL. : 3/20/2019 1:42 pm : link
In comment 14349437 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14349338 .McL. said:


Quote:



THe example I like to use is Herbert. Coming into this year, everybody thought Herbert was the next great thing. Some may still think so, but in general I think there is some tarnish on his star. From about game start 18 and on he struggled. I believe that part of his struggle was that teams caught on that he was a 1 read and run guy. Teams started defending that, and Herbert couldn't adjust. I have never seen Herbert as a guy that confidently goes through progressions and that's a problem for the NFL. But it wasn't obvious until after game start 18 or so...





I was off Herbert early because the hype didn't match the game day production. But it's very clear that Herbert has a ton of tools. He's a terrific, gited athlete and I'm really interested to see how h progresses this year.

I'll say this. I think Herbert, like almost all college QBs, would also look very good with the Buckeye offense last year. That were loaded.

Yeah, I always had issues with the 1 read and run offense. there were suggestions that it was the system and not him. So I was anxious to see progression from him (in both senses of the word in this context!). We didn't get it, and you're right the production didn't match the hype. He has all the physical tools, size, mobility, arm strength, nice spiral, decent accuracy... I just not sure he can process all the reads though. Doesn't seem like it, because once defenders started taking away that 1st read, and they had somebody spying, then it was time to adjust the system. Neither the system nor the QB adjusted. That says something to me.
I'd take Barkley over Devin White every day  
BSIMatt : 3/20/2019 1:42 pm : link
and twice on Sundays.

With regards to the quarterbacks, I think somehow, last years class is being overvalued. The closer it came to the draft, the more it seemed there was no consensus as to who even was the top quarterback. It wasn't until very late that Mayfield emerged as a candidate for #1 overall, but till that point most did not consider him the top prospect..early on it seemed a Darnold/Rosen race. Even right up to the draft there seemed to be no consensus on the ordering of last years QB prospects. They all had their strengths, but they all had issues. For Darnold, the one point that came up was that he seemingly regressed in his last year , and had issues with ball security(36 turnovers in two years). None of these QBs coming out last year came without questions or concerns.
RE: Everyone looks great in their pro day  
Amtoft : 3/20/2019 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14349587 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Let's see how he looks in the NFL against A gap pressure with Fletcher Cox pressuring in the A gap.

It isn't lazy to say he has shitty feet. It's the truth, it's backed up by analysts all over the place, and it was borne out on the field by Ohio State being one of the worst red zone teams in the country. No thanks on this guy.


When I say he has good feet I mean he drifts in the pocket well. He had a lot of pressure this year playing against a lot of top Def and made some bad throws off the back of his foot and didn't always throw with lower body etc. When I say good feet I mean how he drifts while reading plays. He has work on throwing on bad feet.
RE: And Haskins is going into the shop for a year  
Go Terps : 3/20/2019 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14349595 Oscar said:
Quote:
If he comes to the Giants. They can address any bad habits.


You can't draft a QB #6 overall and then sit him for a year. It's a horrendous use of a key resource that could be used to help the team now in 2019. If you draft him with no intention of playing him, why not just wait a year to draft a QB?
Red zone offense  
Kyle in NY : 3/20/2019 1:45 pm : link
struggled in the middle of the season because OSU's run game really took a step back this past year, not because of Haskins' "shitty feet." OSU OL was not a great rum blocking unit..
RE: RE: And Haskins is going into the shop for a year  
Amtoft : 3/20/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14349603 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14349595 Oscar said:


Quote:


If he comes to the Giants. They can address any bad habits.



You can't draft a QB #6 overall and then sit him for a year. It's a horrendous use of a key resource that could be used to help the team now in 2019. If you draft him with no intention of playing him, why not just wait a year to draft a QB?


Didn't you want a QB last year who would have sat behind Eli then also?
RE: .  
.McL. : 3/20/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14349581 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Funny... Louis Riddick is talking about how Haskins is displaying good footwork right now during his pro day.

He does have questions about his footwork, but it's in specific areas and instances. To say he just has shitty footwork in general is lazy and not true.

His biggest footwork questions are on his deep ball and how he resets himself when he's forced out of the pocket.

His standard pocket footwork really isn't much of a problem and isn't nearly as bad as I think you're making it seem


I think the problem with what you said though is, how often do NFL QBs have the luxury of "standard pocket footwork"?

But again, he has so little experience, you have to cut him some slack and say it may be coachable...

But again, he has so little experience, its what you don't know.
RE: RE: And Haskins is going into the shop for a year  
Default : 3/20/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14349603 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14349595 Oscar said:


Quote:


If he comes to the Giants. They can address any bad habits.



You can't draft a QB #6 overall and then sit him for a year. It's a horrendous use of a key resource that could be used to help the team now in 2019. If you draft him with no intention of playing him, why not just wait a year to draft a QB?


It's the same team that is using a $23 million dollar cap hit for a QB that would be valued at half that on another team, not to mention used a #2 pick overall on a RB.

Nothing this team does anymore would surprise me.
Amtoft  
Go Terps : 3/20/2019 1:49 pm : link
I wanted to release Eli and draft a QB last year. I still would release Eli, but I wouldn't draft any of these QBs in round 1.
Haskins is not the statue  
Kyle in NY : 3/20/2019 1:51 pm : link
that he's being made out to be by some. I'm guessing there's a lot of parroting of analysis going on without actually watching the guy play. Last few games of the season he showed he was capable of moving in the pocket, resetting after coming off his spot, and throwing from different platforms. He's not elite at it, at least not yet, but we're not talking Byron Leftwich here.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 1:51 pm : link
In comment 14349608 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14349581 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Funny... Louis Riddick is talking about how Haskins is displaying good footwork right now during his pro day.

He does have questions about his footwork, but it's in specific areas and instances. To say he just has shitty footwork in general is lazy and not true.

His biggest footwork questions are on his deep ball and how he resets himself when he's forced out of the pocket.

His standard pocket footwork really isn't much of a problem and isn't nearly as bad as I think you're making it seem



I think the problem with what you said though is, how often do NFL QBs have the luxury of "standard pocket footwork"?

But again, he has so little experience, you have to cut him some slack and say it may be coachable...

But again, he has so little experience, its what you don't know.


There's an incorrect narrative that formed about Haskins and pressure - which is that he struggled and couldn't handle it.

This isn't reality as much as there's not a ton of tape on him facing it in general. And when he did, the numbers actually say he fared pretty well..

His footwork will need to improve in some areas, but his feet are not bad all around and it would be crazy to take him off the board based on that alone.

Haskins got better all year long and he's still ascending. The guy we see right now is not the final product.

Riddick and McShay both sound very high on him. Just made a beautiful throw down the left sideline.

Look - if you want to poke holes in Haskins' game, you can - you can do it with everyone. Name a QB you like, I'll find things about them and say "well, I don't like this, so...."

Some guys have fewer flaws than others.

Haskins isn't a perfect prospect, but there's a lot to like here. At least that's how I feel.
This whole GL talk is lazy  
Amtoft : 3/20/2019 1:51 pm : link
First of all a spread offense inside the 10 is not a good offense. It is why most teams run big offense and throws are usually off play action. If you can't run inside the 10 then you are going to struggle as there is no threat. He wasn't bad at say the 17, but when the field shrunk and teams knew they couldn't run... that isn't a recipe for success.
RE: Amtoft  
Amtoft : 3/20/2019 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14349613 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I wanted to release Eli and draft a QB last year. I still would release Eli, but I wouldn't draft any of these QBs in round 1.


That is interesting. Sorry didn't realize that is what you wanted. I would prefer to play Haskins like we did with Eli in his first year. Starting him day one isn't always the best way IMO.
arc is on point  
Kyle in NY : 3/20/2019 1:53 pm : link
and I've actually said I'd probably rather go defense at #6. But he's absolutely a day 1 QB
He looks leaner  
Amtoft : 3/20/2019 1:54 pm : link
today which is good to see.
He's not a perfect prospect, as were none of the quarterbacks  
BSIMatt : 3/20/2019 1:56 pm : link
available in the top ten a year ago. Putting Darnold on a pedestal and ripping Haskins is bad comedy.
RE: RE: Amtoft  
Go Terps : 3/20/2019 1:56 pm : link
In comment 14349623 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 14349613 Go Terps said:


Quote:


I wanted to release Eli and draft a QB last year. I still would release Eli, but I wouldn't draft any of these QBs in round 1.



That is interesting. Sorry didn't realize that is what you wanted. I would prefer to play Haskins like we did with Eli in his first year. Starting him day one isn't always the best way IMO.


The only reason to go forward with Eli is to try to win with him this year.
That's the path the front office has chosen, and as such they should work to surround him with the best possible pieces. That means drafting players at 6 & 17 to play now.
RE: arc is on point  
Amtoft : 3/20/2019 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14349626 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
and I've actually said I'd probably rather go defense at #6. But he's absolutely a day 1 QB


Yeah to be clear I would rather go Joey Bosa, Quinnen Wiliams, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Ed Oliver, and then Montez Sweat in that order, but I like Haskins and think he will be very good. If he had another year I would have him as my 4th best, but the lack of experience is to risky with such talent available.
RE: RE: RE: Amtoft  
Amtoft : 3/20/2019 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14349637 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14349623 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 14349613 Go Terps said:


Quote:


I wanted to release Eli and draft a QB last year. I still would release Eli, but I wouldn't draft any of these QBs in round 1.



That is interesting. Sorry didn't realize that is what you wanted. I would prefer to play Haskins like we did with Eli in his first year. Starting him day one isn't always the best way IMO.



The only reason to go forward with Eli is to try to win with him this year.
That's the path the front office has chosen, and as such they should work to surround him with the best possible pieces. That means drafting players at 6 & 17 to play now.


I don't agree... I think easing QBs in if you can is the way to go. I mean look how bad QBs struggle when they are rushed. Goff for example people wanted to run out of town. ease them in I think is a better way to go if you can. Just different thinking who knows which way is better for each QB
.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 2:03 pm : link
I don't look at a model when it comes to QB's and how you break them in - I look at the player.

A guy who is a 3 year starter in college and guys from big programs with experience are usually fine to go with out of the gates.

But limited experience, guys from smaller programs... guys who are raw and need development - it can benefit a player like this to spend a few weeks on the sidelines.

Lamar Jackson, for instance, he did well enough when he got the gig - but he wouldn't have been ready in Week 1 and likely would have struggled a lot. They needed time with him to coach him up and install packages they could run with him since they wren't going to approach the passing attack the same way as they had been with Flacco.

It's a player basis - it's not a one-size-fits-all scenario. Or at least it shouldn't be.
If they draft a QB, and the year goes the way the roster indicates  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2019 2:06 pm : link
that it's going to, a rookie QB is going to get 4 games to play at the end of the year.
RE: RE: arc is on point  
Kyle in NY : 3/20/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14349640 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 14349626 Kyle in NY said:


Quote:


and I've actually said I'd probably rather go defense at #6. But he's absolutely a day 1 QB



Yeah to be clear I would rather go Joey Bosa, Quinnen Wiliams, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Ed Oliver, and then Montez Sweat in that order, but I like Haskins and think he will be very good. If he had another year I would have him as my 4th best, but the lack of experience is to risky with such talent available.


One more year would certainly help the eval process. But consider the strides he made in his first year as a starter. He improved vastly across the board. He's still so inexperienced, there's a lot to work with.
first year starter  
GiantGrit : 3/20/2019 2:11 pm : link
At a powerhouse with monumental expectations (who also had their HC suspended) comes in and

70 % completion
50 touchdowns
8 picks

"lack of experience concerns me"

Why? He wouldn't be starting day 1.

Guy has the exact temperament you want from a quarterback. Very smart football iq. He's young BUT has had success reading defenses.



This is coming from someone who did not like him at first.
inexperience goes both ways  
GiantGrit : 3/20/2019 2:12 pm : link
I'd argue his success with a lack of experience makes him even more enticing.
Thats funny  
djm : 3/20/2019 2:17 pm : link
I could swear I saw a bunch of leaks from various outlets screaming that the giants didnt like Haskins. BBI of course insisted that these leaks are a sign of a dysfunctional organization. On que, one week later we now get a different report.

Leaks = bullshit.
RE: inexperience goes both ways  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/20/2019 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14349697 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
I'd argue his success with a lack of experience makes him even more enticing.


Yeah it is interesting. Guy stays and plays like he did last year and he is in the discussion with Tua and Fromm for sure.
RE: inexperience goes both ways  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/20/2019 2:26 pm : link
In comment 14349697 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
I'd argue his success with a lack of experience makes him even more enticing.


While that is one side, history has shown that QB's who have just a season under their belts have failed more often than similarly rated prospects with multiple years as a starter.

But there are some notable exceptions, so it isn't a hard and fast rule.
RE: inexperience goes both ways  
Amtoft : 3/20/2019 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14349697 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
I'd argue his success with a lack of experience makes him even more enticing.


More exciting, but also more risky. His upside is huge and honestly I think his low is an average NFL QB. However the lack of experience means you are risking a lot on your franchise. There is statistics on QBs and starts and amount of throws etc. The less the more chance of bust.
RE: RE: inexperience goes both ways  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/20/2019 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14349745 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14349697 GiantGrit said:


Quote:


I'd argue his success with a lack of experience makes him even more enticing.



While that is one side, history has shown that QB's who have just a season under their belts have failed more often than similarly rated prospects with multiple years as a starter.

But there are some notable exceptions, so it isn't a hard and fast rule.


I don't think its a product of actually only playing one year worth of games. It's the why they were only one year starters. If they were NFL QB's why didn't the surpass the guy ahead of them. I think Haskins answers that well because Urban wants running QBs and JT Barrett is the protoype he wants to run his offense.
RE: RE: inexperience goes both ways  
GiantGrit : 3/20/2019 2:33 pm : link
In comment 14349745 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14349697 GiantGrit said:


Quote:


I'd argue his success with a lack of experience makes him even more enticing.



While that is one side, history has shown that QB's who have just a season under their belts have failed more often than similarly rated prospects with multiple years as a starter.

But there are some notable exceptions, so it isn't a hard and fast rule.


No doubt. He's not a sure thing. He is capable of making any throw...i'm sold on his football IQ and work ethic. Maryland back shoulder fade with under a minute left popped to me. Excellent ball placement. I think with quarterbacks especially, fit is so so important. This kid is a perfect culture fit. It doesn't feel like a force - it feels the opposite way actually. More and more i see of him, the more comfortable i am with the idea of him being the next guy.
It's a variance thing  
AcesUp : 3/20/2019 2:45 pm : link
1 year QBs bust more because there is simply less tape on the guys. There's less opportunity to expose warts on the player. Take Haskins composure under pressure, you're seeing wildly differing opinions on him there. It probably has to do with him looking God awful against pressure early and improving as the season went. It's still a huge question, one that could better be answered with another year.

This is only going to become more and more common.
Players are more business savvy now and understand the importance of getting to that 2nd contract as quickly as possible. Also, the new CBA has only made rookie QBs more valuable, so teams are more likely than ever to take that gamble there. From the player perspective, the money on the first contract at #1 overall vs #10 overall isn't remotely as exaggerated as it was a decade ago. There's not a whole lot of incentive to wait it out to try to be the top overall pick if you're already getting an early round 1 projection. The Parcells thing about 3 year starters is as good as dead, you'll be looking at too narrow a pool.
RE: RE: RE: inexperience goes both ways  
Pan-handler : 3/20/2019 2:49 pm : link
In comment 14349773 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 14349745 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 14349697 GiantGrit said:


Quote:


I'd argue his success with a lack of experience makes him even more enticing.



While that is one side, history has shown that QB's who have just a season under their belts have failed more often than similarly rated prospects with multiple years as a starter.

But there are some notable exceptions, so it isn't a hard and fast rule.



No doubt. He's not a sure thing. He is capable of making any throw...i'm sold on his football IQ and work ethic. Maryland back shoulder fade with under a minute left popped to me. Excellent ball placement. I think with quarterbacks especially, fit is so so important. This kid is a perfect culture fit. It doesn't feel like a force - it feels the opposite way actually. More and more i see of him, the more comfortable i am with the idea of him being the next guy.


Really well put.
Gettleman  
BigBlueCane : 3/20/2019 2:50 pm : link
looks like he's going to break one of his own rules, regarding talking himself into liking a player b/c of position with Haskins.

Was Gettleman even at this dinner?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2019 3:21 pm : link
I'm seeing comments that suggest he wasn't one of the people there.
RE: RE: RE: .  
.McL. : 3/20/2019 5:42 pm : link
In comment 14349618 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14349608 .McL. said:


Quote:


In comment 14349581 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Funny... Louis Riddick is talking about how Haskins is displaying good footwork right now during his pro day.

He does have questions about his footwork, but it's in specific areas and instances. To say he just has shitty footwork in general is lazy and not true.

His biggest footwork questions are on his deep ball and how he resets himself when he's forced out of the pocket.

His standard pocket footwork really isn't much of a problem and isn't nearly as bad as I think you're making it seem



I think the problem with what you said though is, how often do NFL QBs have the luxury of "standard pocket footwork"?

But again, he has so little experience, you have to cut him some slack and say it may be coachable...

But again, he has so little experience, its what you don't know.



There's an incorrect narrative that formed about Haskins and pressure - which is that he struggled and couldn't handle it.

This isn't reality as much as there's not a ton of tape on him facing it in general. And when he did, the numbers actually say he fared pretty well..

His footwork will need to improve in some areas, but his feet are not bad all around and it would be crazy to take him off the board based on that alone.

Haskins got better all year long and he's still ascending. The guy we see right now is not the final product.

Riddick and McShay both sound very high on him. Just made a beautiful throw down the left sideline.

Look - if you want to poke holes in Haskins' game, you can - you can do it with everyone. Name a QB you like, I'll find things about them and say "well, I don't like this, so...."

Some guys have fewer flaws than others.

Haskins isn't a perfect prospect, but there's a lot to like here. At least that's how I feel.


Yeah, I'm not concerned at this point with any of his flaws. I haven't seen anything that absolutely takes him off the board.

He does get sloppy with his feet at times
He unnecessarily sidearms the ball sometimes
He has a funny wrist motion during his release

I tend to think all that can be cleaned up with coaching and experience.
Back to the Corner