Who the Giants met with, had dinner with...dindt have dinner with. I agree if you base it on last year, we did way more work on the QBs than on Barkley.
However, it is a different situation this year. For 1, Eli is now down to the final year ion his contract and we are coming off another poor season. 2, Barkley was as close to a no brainer as it gets in regards to his talent. Even the people that were for a QB and against drafting RB couldnt deny his talent. It was more of a positional value debate. It seems to me that they always had Barkley as number 1 and did the work not he QBs just to see if they were missing something that would make the QBs jump Barkley...they didnt. It wasnt a smokescreen, it was due diligence.
This year we are doing due diligence again, but there isnt a no brainer pick at 6 unless one of the 3 elite defenders falls there (unlikely). I highly doubt thats they view Sweat or White in the same way the viewed Barkley. Of course dinners and pro day attendance doesnt mean we are drafting a QB, but i wouldnt dismiss it at 6.
the transitive property rarely works in cfb or nfl
Bottom line there is stuff to like about both Haskins and Jones IMO. And there's also stuff to not like. But at the end of the day it's binary and I think either of them would be great to add.
Osweiler was actually surprisingly athletic for a guy his size - and he's like 3" taller than Haskins. Different skillsets, different programs and Osweiler was never as productive in college despite being a 2 year starter.
Osweiler was thought of as more of a "gunslinger" and not nearly as cerebral as Haskins is.
OSU RZ production was poor - but their general production otherwise wasn't at all.
Haskins is going to have things he needs to improve on - that just comes with the territory. We can find flags on every QB in this draft, just like we'll be able to find them next year too.
I can tell you already that people are going to probably make a big deal about Tua's knee, playing with such great players around him, etc.. and he'll start to get torn apart and discounted the same way.
One of the guys that theyve really scouted the heck out of
Is Jaylon Ferguson. The interesting part is perhaps they feel he can be had at 17 and have similar upside of the top guys in this draft.
And the other guy I keep seeing pop up is Cody Ford.
-Haskins at 6
-Jaylon at 17 (he goes here because there are a ton of OTs in this draft but the edge rushers thin out quick after the big run on them in the top 10)
-Cody at 37 (or with a slight trade up) if not Cody then Risner. Or whoever the last available OT on your higher tier that is left.
Arm is reason enough to do the work. Stripped down, if you watched the QBs throw at the combine it was Haskins and everyone else. Lock has a cannon but Haskins is a gifted thrower, it's really his mobility in the pocket and pocket awareness that are the questions.
They'd be foolish not too simply from a leverage standpoint if trade opportunities present themselves. Personally I like Haskins a lot, more than Murray in fact. When taking into account everything I've seen from video on and off the field I just feel he'll have a better chance to fulfill his potential. Even if the Giants feel the same way he may or may not be the selection. None of these QB prospects are a funished product. There is always some projected development to the next level that will ultimately determine how good they will become.
Arm is reason enough to do the work. Stripped down, if you watched the QBs throw at the combine it was Haskins and everyone else. Lock has a cannon but Haskins is a gifted thrower, it's really his mobility in the pocket and pocket awareness that are the questions.
Alex Smith has won a lot of football games in the NFL - he's actually not a bad outcome at all.
He never lived up to his draft billing, and being taken before Aaron Rodgers will make it look even worse - but Smith really wound up carving out a nice career.
That said - I think Smith is a bit more mobile than Haskins - but I think Haskins has a higher ceiling as a pocket passer and can be a better dropback QB.
Arm is reason enough to do the work. Stripped down, if you watched the QBs throw at the combine it was Haskins and everyone else. Lock has a cannon but Haskins is a gifted thrower, it's really his mobility in the pocket and pocket awareness that are the questions.
Yes I think the Kerry Collins comparisons are very good. If you let Haskins just sit there and throw, he'll shred you.
he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.
Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.
Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.
The #Giants contingent here at @OhioStateFB Pro Day is very strong. The folks from NJ took QB Dwayne Haskins to dinner last night and from what I was just told, were very impressed by him and his intelligence.
Alex Smith has won a lot of football games in the NFL - he's actually not a bad outcome at all.
He never lived up to his draft billing, and being taken before Aaron Rodgers will make it look even worse - but Smith really wound up carving out a nice career.
That said - I think Smith is a bit more mobile than Haskins - but I think Haskins has a higher ceiling as a pocket passer and can be a better dropback QB.
I agree all around. The biggest challenge evaluating a college guy with 15 career starts, probably 10 of them against crappy teams who were totally outclassed, is determining the upside. He threw a ton of screen passes and was in a system that hasn't produced pro qbs. I think he sees the field and is pretty good short + intermediate despite the sidearm motion. Deep is a little more iffy so there's upside (and downside). Had he stayed in school for another year or two the comp could have been Drew Brees.
THe example I like to use is Herbert. Coming into this year, everybody thought Herbert was the next great thing. Some may still think so, but in general I think there is some tarnish on his star. From about game start 18 and on he struggled. I believe that part of his struggle was that teams caught on that he was a 1 read and run guy. Teams started defending that, and Herbert couldn't adjust. I have never seen Herbert as a guy that confidently goes through progressions and that's a problem for the NFL. But it wasn't obvious until after game start 18 or so...
With Haskins, we have only 14 starts, defenses haven't had an off season to adjust to hi. Plus he had significantly more time in the pocket to go through his progressions than he will get in the NFL. Can he do it at NFL speed? Don't know. Will his mechanics suffer at NFL speed? Don't know. Does he have the appropriate clock in his head for NFL speed? Don't know...
It's all the don't knows that scare me off Haskins.
Alex Smith has won a lot of football games in the NFL - he's actually not a bad outcome at all.
He never lived up to his draft billing, and being taken before Aaron Rodgers will make it look even worse - but Smith really wound up carving out a nice career.
That said - I think Smith is a bit more mobile than Haskins - but I think Haskins has a higher ceiling as a pocket passer and can be a better dropback QB.
I agree all around. The biggest challenge evaluating a college guy with 15 career starts, probably 10 of them against crappy teams who were totally outclassed, is determining the upside. He threw a ton of screen passes and was in a system that hasn't produced pro qbs. I think he sees the field and is pretty good short + intermediate despite the sidearm motion. Deep is a little more iffy so there's upside (and downside). Had he stayed in school for another year or two the comp could have been Drew Brees.
He threw a ton of screens, and short mesh crossing patterns. Those really do make up the majority of his work.
he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.
Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.
Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.
A higher percentage of Haskins yards came from throws under 10 yards than any QB in the country. I'm not saying he can't throw deep balls, just that he wasn't in a downfield offense. It was a short passing offense that he ran very efficiently. How he adjusts to more of a pro style downfield attack is the question. I'm not predicting either way, I think he has the talent that he could adjust well or he could adjust poorly.
he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.
Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.
Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.
A higher percentage of Haskins yards came from throws under 10 yards than any QB in the country. I'm not saying he can't throw deep balls, just that he wasn't in a downfield offense. It was a short passing offense that he ran very efficiently. How he adjusts to more of a pro style downfield attack is the question. I'm not predicting either way, I think he has the talent that he could adjust well or he could adjust poorly.
His receivers are top notch, but I will give Haskins credit for making the right read and delivering the ball to the right guy who could make the most YAC...
While Urban tweaked his offense well for Haskins, he never figured out how to not have a mobile QB in the red zone. Generally when he gets down there its his go-to using his QB as a running option.
is my preference if its between those two for various reasons: Jones is more apt to fit Shurmer's system and he's likely to be cheaper as a late first round pick or a 2nd round pick.
is my preference if its between those two for various reasons: Jones is more apt to fit Shurmer's system and he's likely to be cheaper as a late first round pick or a 2nd round pick.
he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.
Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.
Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.
A higher percentage of Haskins yards came from throws under 10 yards than any QB in the country. I'm not saying he can't throw deep balls, just that he wasn't in a downfield offense. It was a short passing offense that he ran very efficiently. How he adjusts to more of a pro style downfield attack is the question. I'm not predicting either way, I think he has the talent that he could adjust well or he could adjust poorly.
System called for it and there was a detailed breakdown of his deep ball accuracy showing that it was still pretty good.
THe example I like to use is Herbert. Coming into this year, everybody thought Herbert was the next great thing. Some may still think so, but in general I think there is some tarnish on his star. From about game start 18 and on he struggled. I believe that part of his struggle was that teams caught on that he was a 1 read and run guy. Teams started defending that, and Herbert couldn't adjust. I have never seen Herbert as a guy that confidently goes through progressions and that's a problem for the NFL. But it wasn't obvious until after game start 18 or so...
I was off Herbert early because the hype didn't match the game day production. But it's very clear that Herbert has a ton of tools. He's a terrific, gited athlete and I'm really interested to see how h progresses this year.
I'll say this. I think Herbert, like almost all college QBs, would also look very good with the Buckeye offense last year. That were loaded.
RE: RE: They had dinner with Darnold and Rosen too
Haskins runs in the 4.8 range today. He isn't fast, but he isn't over 5 QB.
Funny you bring this up. After all the great times at the Combine by the DLs and others, it was suggested in some circles that the Indy surface was "souped-up" to produce faster results. Some of the times this year caught a lot of people off guard - in terms of being better than expected...
RE: What seems clear to me is that the Giants are a year late
The prospects last year were much more appealing IMO.
Mayfield/Darnold yes, the others no. But they didn't have a shot at Mayfield. Darnold's tools are better vs. Jones/Haskins, but I'm not sure if he has the field vision either of those 2 have. He was much more mistake prone in college. Are Haskins/Jones + Barkley > Darnold? I'd probably hedge and say yes if you're asking to pick which group I'd rather have as a fan.
This is true, but I'll add..the Giants are drafting 6th, not 2nd..and there's no Saquon Barkley in this draft.
maybe there is and he just doesn't play RB...
I meant that as a prospect that stood out like Saquon, regardless of position. Bosa and Williams aren't graded, or regarded as highly as Barkley was coming out. The only thing that put the quarterbacks in discussion with Saquon was positional importance. None of the quarterbacks as pure prospects carried a grade anywhere near him, he was in his own tier..but they were quarterbacks and because of the importance of the position, they were in the discussion.
Carry that forward to this year, at 6 slot, I'm not sure a prospect is there that clearly distinguishes himself like that for the Giants, and Haskins grade seems to be right in the mix with last years group of quarterbacks.
So I hope hes the pick. I think his improvement from start 1 to start 14 was noticeable. Part of the reason he didnt face pressure was his ability to identify it pre-snap and adjust line assignments. Thats incredible for such an inexperienced guy. A guy with his arm talent and his intelligence and football smarts - which dont appear in question - will not fail. Im confident the guy is going to be a stud.
Incidentally, a guy many of us wanted as GM last year - Louis Riddick - is attending the OSU pro day (and only this pro day), to watch his top ranked QB in action.
Yes, the red zone troubles are an issue. But his accuracy at all levels and even under pressure - as shown by Ian Whartons chart - is incredible. Yes, many of you try to poke holes in it. But the guy is a stud in my book.
that the Giants had no interest in Haskins at 6 got played. As did a few others preaching that line.
Like it or lump it, Haskins is in serious consideration at 6, and that's not smoke. No way the contingent Mike G noted, Shurmur, Shula, Chris Mara, Chris Petit and whomever else he mentioned are holding private meetings and dinner with Haskins to blow smoke up anyone's ASS.
That just ain't happening.
RE: That gal reporter who tried to definitively state
that the Giants had no interest in Haskins at 6 got played. As did a few others preaching that line.
Like it or lump it, Haskins is in serious consideration at 6, and that's not smoke. No way the contingent Mike G noted, Shurmur, Shula, Chris Mara, Chris Petit and whomever else he mentioned are holding private meetings and dinner with Haskins to blow smoke up anyone's ASS.
That just ain't happening.
Exactly, Actions speak louder than words.
RE: RE: What seems clear to me is that the Giants are a year late
The prospects last year were much more appealing IMO.
Mayfield/Darnold yes, the others no. But they didn't have a shot at Mayfield. Darnold's tools are better vs. Jones/Haskins, but I'm not sure if he has the field vision either of those 2 have. He was much more mistake prone in college. Are Haskins/Jones + Barkley > Darnold? I'd probably hedge and say yes if you're asking to pick which group I'd rather have as a fan.
I don't agree with your assessment of this year's QBs...particularly Haskins. I don't want any part of a QB with shitty feet, and Haskins has shitty feet.
Darnold + Devin White is better than Haskins/Jones + Barkley by quite a bit, in my view. With the former I've got the guys that are going to run my offense and defense. Bedrock players. With the latter I've got a QB with either shitty feet or a weak arm and a running back. No comparison.
Haskins runs in the 4.8 range today. He isn't fast, but he isn't over 5 QB.
Funny you bring this up. After all the great times at the Combine by the DLs and others, it was suggested in some circles that the Indy surface was "souped-up" to produce faster results. Some of the times this year caught a lot of people off guard - in terms of being better than expected...
I think Ohio State has a fast track and I think he did have issues with his legs cramping. He also looked a little out of shape. I would expect they spent a lot of time working on him running faster. He isn't fast at all though, but he pretty good feet in my opinion.
Funny... Louis Riddick is talking about how Haskins is displaying good footwork right now during his pro day.
He does have questions about his footwork, but it's in specific areas and instances. To say he just has shitty footwork in general is lazy and not true.
His biggest footwork questions are on his deep ball and how he resets himself when he's forced out of the pocket.
His standard pocket footwork really isn't much of a problem and isn't nearly as bad as I think you're making it seem
Let's see how he looks in the NFL against A gap pressure with Fletcher Cox pressuring in the A gap.
It isn't lazy to say he has shitty feet. It's the truth, it's backed up by analysts all over the place, and it was borne out on the field by Ohio State being one of the worst red zone teams in the country. No thanks on this guy.
However, it is a different situation this year. For 1, Eli is now down to the final year ion his contract and we are coming off another poor season. 2, Barkley was as close to a no brainer as it gets in regards to his talent. Even the people that were for a QB and against drafting RB couldnt deny his talent. It was more of a positional value debate. It seems to me that they always had Barkley as number 1 and did the work not he QBs just to see if they were missing something that would make the QBs jump Barkley...they didnt. It wasnt a smokescreen, it was due diligence.
This year we are doing due diligence again, but there isnt a no brainer pick at 6 unless one of the 3 elite defenders falls there (unlikely). I highly doubt thats they view Sweat or White in the same way the viewed Barkley. Of course dinners and pro day attendance doesnt mean we are drafting a QB, but i wouldnt dismiss it at 6.
Bottom line there is stuff to like about both Haskins and Jones IMO. And there's also stuff to not like. But at the end of the day it's binary and I think either of them would be great to add.
Due diligence.
Thorough establishing of their potential value to the team.
They did it last year with a few of the QBs.
IMO Haskins has got Brock Osweiler written all over him.
WHAT? Osweiler? Weird comp, dude.
Not seeing that comparison at all.
Osweiler was actually surprisingly athletic for a guy his size - and he's like 3" taller than Haskins. Different skillsets, different programs and Osweiler was never as productive in college despite being a 2 year starter.
Osweiler was thought of as more of a "gunslinger" and not nearly as cerebral as Haskins is.
OSU RZ production was poor - but their general production otherwise wasn't at all.
Haskins is going to have things he needs to improve on - that just comes with the territory. We can find flags on every QB in this draft, just like we'll be able to find them next year too.
I can tell you already that people are going to probably make a big deal about Tua's knee, playing with such great players around him, etc.. and he'll start to get torn apart and discounted the same way.
And the other guy I keep seeing pop up is Cody Ford.
-Haskins at 6
-Jaylon at 17 (he goes here because there are a ton of OTs in this draft but the edge rushers thin out quick after the big run on them in the top 10)
-Cody at 37 (or with a slight trade up) if not Cody then Risner. Or whoever the last available OT on your higher tier that is left.
That being said, Haskins at 6 and then defense at 17 and 37 is not a bad backup plan.
I'm more inclined to like defense at 6, then trade up for Haskins if he slips a tad, without giving up #37
Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.
He never lived up to his draft billing, and being taken before Aaron Rodgers will make it look even worse - but Smith really wound up carving out a nice career.
That said - I think Smith is a bit more mobile than Haskins - but I think Haskins has a higher ceiling as a pocket passer and can be a better dropback QB.
Yes I think the Kerry Collins comparisons are very good. If you let Haskins just sit there and throw, he'll shred you.
Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.
Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.
Aditi Kinkhabwala
Verified account @AKinkhabwala
The #Giants contingent here at @OhioStateFB Pro Day is very strong. The folks from NJ took QB Dwayne Haskins to dinner last night and from what I was just told, were very impressed by him and his intelligence.
He never lived up to his draft billing, and being taken before Aaron Rodgers will make it look even worse - but Smith really wound up carving out a nice career.
That said - I think Smith is a bit more mobile than Haskins - but I think Haskins has a higher ceiling as a pocket passer and can be a better dropback QB.
I agree all around. The biggest challenge evaluating a college guy with 15 career starts, probably 10 of them against crappy teams who were totally outclassed, is determining the upside. He threw a ton of screen passes and was in a system that hasn't produced pro qbs. I think he sees the field and is pretty good short + intermediate despite the sidearm motion. Deep is a little more iffy so there's upside (and downside). Had he stayed in school for another year or two the comp could have been Drew Brees.
But overall I am with TTH on this one.
Just not enough games.
THe example I like to use is Herbert. Coming into this year, everybody thought Herbert was the next great thing. Some may still think so, but in general I think there is some tarnish on his star. From about game start 18 and on he struggled. I believe that part of his struggle was that teams caught on that he was a 1 read and run guy. Teams started defending that, and Herbert couldn't adjust. I have never seen Herbert as a guy that confidently goes through progressions and that's a problem for the NFL. But it wasn't obvious until after game start 18 or so...
With Haskins, we have only 14 starts, defenses haven't had an off season to adjust to hi. Plus he had significantly more time in the pocket to go through his progressions than he will get in the NFL. Can he do it at NFL speed? Don't know. Will his mechanics suffer at NFL speed? Don't know. Does he have the appropriate clock in his head for NFL speed? Don't know...
It's all the don't knows that scare me off Haskins.
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Alex Smith has won a lot of football games in the NFL - he's actually not a bad outcome at all.
He never lived up to his draft billing, and being taken before Aaron Rodgers will make it look even worse - but Smith really wound up carving out a nice career.
That said - I think Smith is a bit more mobile than Haskins - but I think Haskins has a higher ceiling as a pocket passer and can be a better dropback QB.
I agree all around. The biggest challenge evaluating a college guy with 15 career starts, probably 10 of them against crappy teams who were totally outclassed, is determining the upside. He threw a ton of screen passes and was in a system that hasn't produced pro qbs. I think he sees the field and is pretty good short + intermediate despite the sidearm motion. Deep is a little more iffy so there's upside (and downside). Had he stayed in school for another year or two the comp could have been Drew Brees.
He threw a ton of screens, and short mesh crossing patterns. Those really do make up the majority of his work.
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he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.
Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.
Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.
A higher percentage of Haskins yards came from throws under 10 yards than any QB in the country. I'm not saying he can't throw deep balls, just that he wasn't in a downfield offense. It was a short passing offense that he ran very efficiently. How he adjusts to more of a pro style downfield attack is the question. I'm not predicting either way, I think he has the talent that he could adjust well or he could adjust poorly.
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If you let Haskins just sit there and throw, he'll shred you.
Not the reality in the NFL and even moreso with the Giant's OL... This OL ain't there yet.
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If you let Haskins just sit there and throw, he'll shred you.
No it isn't. I'm just saying he's similar to KC in that way.
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In comment 14349314 Eric on Li said:
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he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.
Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.
Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.
A higher percentage of Haskins yards came from throws under 10 yards than any QB in the country. I'm not saying he can't throw deep balls, just that he wasn't in a downfield offense. It was a short passing offense that he ran very efficiently. How he adjusts to more of a pro style downfield attack is the question. I'm not predicting either way, I think he has the talent that he could adjust well or he could adjust poorly.
His receivers are top notch, but I will give Haskins credit for making the right read and delivering the ball to the right guy who could make the most YAC...
And I say NO! emphatically to Josh Rosen.
I'm probably in the minority but if it's between Haskins or Daniel Jones, I'd go with Jones.
Cane is back!!!!
Alas, Cane is only partially back...
Due diligence.
This is true, but I'll add..the Giants are drafting 6th, not 2nd..and there's no Saquon Barkley in this draft.
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In comment 14349314 Eric on Li said:
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he's really accurate 20 yards and less, especially over the middle of the field. I don't like his deep ball and I don't like his throwing motion.
Alex Smith isn't a terrible outcome btw. And just because he has similarities to Alex Smith talent wise doesn't mean he can't be better in big games.
Wow, I really disagree with this. Are you confused? Haskins is nothing like Alex Smith and his deep ball is gorgeous. He hits guys with pinpoint lasers downfield. Definitely one of his strengths. Crazy how people can watch the same guy and get such different observations.
A higher percentage of Haskins yards came from throws under 10 yards than any QB in the country. I'm not saying he can't throw deep balls, just that he wasn't in a downfield offense. It was a short passing offense that he ran very efficiently. How he adjusts to more of a pro style downfield attack is the question. I'm not predicting either way, I think he has the talent that he could adjust well or he could adjust poorly.
System called for it and there was a detailed breakdown of his deep ball accuracy showing that it was still pretty good.
THe example I like to use is Herbert. Coming into this year, everybody thought Herbert was the next great thing. Some may still think so, but in general I think there is some tarnish on his star. From about game start 18 and on he struggled. I believe that part of his struggle was that teams caught on that he was a 1 read and run guy. Teams started defending that, and Herbert couldn't adjust. I have never seen Herbert as a guy that confidently goes through progressions and that's a problem for the NFL. But it wasn't obvious until after game start 18 or so...
I was off Herbert early because the hype didn't match the game day production. But it's very clear that Herbert has a ton of tools. He's a terrific, gited athlete and I'm really interested to see how h progresses this year.
I'll say this. I think Herbert, like almost all college QBs, would also look very good with the Buckeye offense last year. That were loaded.
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And didn't draft them.
Due diligence.
This is true, but I'll add..the Giants are drafting 6th, not 2nd..and there's no Saquon Barkley in this draft.
maybe there is and he just doesn't play RB...
Funny you bring this up. After all the great times at the Combine by the DLs and others, it was suggested in some circles that the Indy surface was "souped-up" to produce faster results. Some of the times this year caught a lot of people off guard - in terms of being better than expected...
Mayfield/Darnold yes, the others no. But they didn't have a shot at Mayfield. Darnold's tools are better vs. Jones/Haskins, but I'm not sure if he has the field vision either of those 2 have. He was much more mistake prone in college. Are Haskins/Jones + Barkley > Darnold? I'd probably hedge and say yes if you're asking to pick which group I'd rather have as a fan.
;)
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In comment 14348975 David B. said:
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And didn't draft them.
Due diligence.
This is true, but I'll add..the Giants are drafting 6th, not 2nd..and there's no Saquon Barkley in this draft.
maybe there is and he just doesn't play RB...
I meant that as a prospect that stood out like Saquon, regardless of position. Bosa and Williams aren't graded, or regarded as highly as Barkley was coming out. The only thing that put the quarterbacks in discussion with Saquon was positional importance. None of the quarterbacks as pure prospects carried a grade anywhere near him, he was in his own tier..but they were quarterbacks and because of the importance of the position, they were in the discussion.
Carry that forward to this year, at 6 slot, I'm not sure a prospect is there that clearly distinguishes himself like that for the Giants, and Haskins grade seems to be right in the mix with last years group of quarterbacks.
Incidentally, a guy many of us wanted as GM last year - Louis Riddick - is attending the OSU pro day (and only this pro day), to watch his top ranked QB in action.
Yes, the red zone troubles are an issue. But his accuracy at all levels and even under pressure - as shown by Ian Whartons chart - is incredible. Yes, many of you try to poke holes in it. But the guy is a stud in my book.
Like it or lump it, Haskins is in serious consideration at 6, and that's not smoke. No way the contingent Mike G noted, Shurmur, Shula, Chris Mara, Chris Petit and whomever else he mentioned are holding private meetings and dinner with Haskins to blow smoke up anyone's ASS.
That just ain't happening.
Like it or lump it, Haskins is in serious consideration at 6, and that's not smoke. No way the contingent Mike G noted, Shurmur, Shula, Chris Mara, Chris Petit and whomever else he mentioned are holding private meetings and dinner with Haskins to blow smoke up anyone's ASS.
That just ain't happening.
Exactly, Actions speak louder than words.
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The prospects last year were much more appealing IMO.
Mayfield/Darnold yes, the others no. But they didn't have a shot at Mayfield. Darnold's tools are better vs. Jones/Haskins, but I'm not sure if he has the field vision either of those 2 have. He was much more mistake prone in college. Are Haskins/Jones + Barkley > Darnold? I'd probably hedge and say yes if you're asking to pick which group I'd rather have as a fan.
I don't agree with your assessment of this year's QBs...particularly Haskins. I don't want any part of a QB with shitty feet, and Haskins has shitty feet.
Darnold + Devin White is better than Haskins/Jones + Barkley by quite a bit, in my view. With the former I've got the guys that are going to run my offense and defense. Bedrock players. With the latter I've got a QB with either shitty feet or a weak arm and a running back. No comparison.
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Haskins runs in the 4.8 range today. He isn't fast, but he isn't over 5 QB.
Funny you bring this up. After all the great times at the Combine by the DLs and others, it was suggested in some circles that the Indy surface was "souped-up" to produce faster results. Some of the times this year caught a lot of people off guard - in terms of being better than expected...
I think Ohio State has a fast track and I think he did have issues with his legs cramping. He also looked a little out of shape. I would expect they spent a lot of time working on him running faster. He isn't fast at all though, but he pretty good feet in my opinion.
He does have questions about his footwork, but it's in specific areas and instances. To say he just has shitty footwork in general is lazy and not true.
His biggest footwork questions are on his deep ball and how he resets himself when he's forced out of the pocket.
His standard pocket footwork really isn't much of a problem and isn't nearly as bad as I think you're making it seem
It isn't lazy to say he has shitty feet. It's the truth, it's backed up by analysts all over the place, and it was borne out on the field by Ohio State being one of the worst red zone teams in the country. No thanks on this guy.