Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Pundits make the case for Giants and Haskins marriage

Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/20/2019 10:50 am
Decent conversation...
Buying Dwayne Haskins as the answer to the Giants QB problem? | FIRST THINGS FIRST 03/20/2019 - ( New Window )
Cris Carter...  
bw in dc : 3/20/2019 10:57 am : link
is obviously a big Buckeye guy so hes not the most unbiased voice here.
RE: Cris Carter...  
Big Blue '56 : 3/20/2019 10:59 am : link
In comment 14349179 bw in dc said:
Quote:
is obviously a big Buckeye guy so hes not the most unbiased voice here.


Nothing wrong with Buckeye Central
I don't think he's a day 1 prospect  
Go Terps : 3/20/2019 11:07 am : link
In today's NFL good footwork is a prerequisite for being a successful QB. There's a reason Ohio State was one of the worst red zone offenses in the country last year...it's because the plays in that area of the field place a heightened emphasis on timing, rhythm, and rehearsed execution from the QB. Haskins is not going to be able to sit in the pocket and wait for his mesh concepts to spring someone open across the field like he did at Ohio St.

I think Haskins is a low ceiling, low floor prospect that was probably born 20 years too late. I wouldn't draft him in the first two rounds, if at all.

I understand the Giants should vet him and put out the appearance of extreme interest, and I'm glad they are. But I'd be unpleasantly shocked if they drafted him.
Go Terps?  
nzyme : 3/20/2019 11:20 am : link
Would you be the saying the same thing if he didn't spur Maryland in favor of Ohio State?

The guy is not a statue. He can move around. Just because he didn't lay down a 4.5 in the 40 yard dash does not mean he can't move.

RG III could run look at what happened to him. Wentz could also run and look what happened. Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers are all drop back QBs. Another thing they all have in common: They rarely get hurt!!! WHen you run that's an open invitation to get your butt handed to you!
This is pretty much  
ryanmkeane : 3/20/2019 11:23 am : link
a great summary of the whole situation. If we pass again, Gettleman pretty much HAS to knock these other picks out of the park, or he's gone.

But if we take a QB now that we don't "love" and we force the pick and he's average...we are doubly fucked.

It's a really tough situation to be in. Here's hoping they get this thing right.
The Bledsoe Comparison Doesn't  
clatterbuck : 3/20/2019 11:27 am : link
do much for me and not sure how Haskins fills Shurmur's prescription for QB mobility. But there's something about this kid that's intriguing.
lets not "Ereck Flowers" a pick for QB  
Gordo : 3/20/2019 11:27 am : link
look at how much damage picking Flowers caused, it took us 4 seasons to finally move on from him, and he was only a LT. Now imagine how much leeway a QB will get?

the one thing i think i can trust is that Gettlemen won't hesitate to admit to a mistake and move on quickly to fix it. That was one of Reese's glaring weaknesses. I'm just not sure how much of leash ownership will give him if he whiffs on our next QB.
RE: I don't think he's a day 1 prospect  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/20/2019 11:31 am : link
In comment 14349206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In today's NFL good footwork is a prerequisite for being a successful QB. There's a reason Ohio State was one of the worst red zone offenses in the country last year...it's because the plays in that area of the field place a heightened emphasis on timing, rhythm, and rehearsed execution from the QB. Haskins is not going to be able to sit in the pocket and wait for his mesh concepts to spring someone open across the field like he did at Ohio St.

I think Haskins is a low ceiling, low floor prospect that was probably born 20 years too late. I wouldn't draft him in the first two rounds, if at all.

I understand the Giants should vet him and put out the appearance of extreme interest, and I'm glad they are. But I'd be unpleasantly shocked if they drafted him.


Footwork is requisite to be successful in the NFL today? I think it is quite the opposite. Patrick Mahomes is a great example of that.
RE: I don't think he's a day 1 prospect  
.McL. : 3/20/2019 11:36 am : link
In comment 14349206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In today's NFL good footwork is a prerequisite for being a successful QB. There's a reason Ohio State was one of the worst red zone offenses in the country last year...it's because the plays in that area of the field place a heightened emphasis on timing, rhythm, and rehearsed execution from the QB. Haskins is not going to be able to sit in the pocket and wait for his mesh concepts to spring someone open across the field like he did at Ohio St.

I think Haskins is a low ceiling, low floor prospect that was probably born 20 years too late. I wouldn't draft him in the first two rounds, if at all.

I understand the Giants should vet him and put out the appearance of extreme interest, and I'm glad they are. But I'd be unpleasantly shocked if they drafted him.

+1 in general
Footwork can be worked on...
His release is also suspect... Again maybe that cane be worked on...

The real issue with him is what we don't know because we have so few games of him, and rarely was he put in stressful circumstances.

He regularly had 3.5 to 4.5 seconds of protection, much more time than he would get in the NFL.

How well can he do post snap reads when he has only 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball. Are his mechanics going to get worse affecting his throws under those circumstances? Those are questions that there is simply not enough film of him doing to make any kind of judgement.
RE: RE: I don't think he's a day 1 prospect  
Strip-Sack : 3/20/2019 11:39 am : link
In comment 14349297 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14349206 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In today's NFL good footwork is a prerequisite for being a successful QB. There's a reason Ohio State was one of the worst red zone offenses in the country last year...it's because the plays in that area of the field place a heightened emphasis on timing, rhythm, and rehearsed execution from the QB. Haskins is not going to be able to sit in the pocket and wait for his mesh concepts to spring someone open across the field like he did at Ohio St.

I think Haskins is a low ceiling, low floor prospect that was probably born 20 years too late. I wouldn't draft him in the first two rounds, if at all.

I understand the Giants should vet him and put out the appearance of extreme interest, and I'm glad they are. But I'd be unpleasantly shocked if they drafted him.


+1 in general
Footwork can be worked on...
His release is also suspect... Again maybe that cane be worked on...

The real issue with him is what we don't know because we have so few games of him, and rarely was he put in stressful circumstances.

He regularly had 3.5 to 4.5 seconds of protection, much more time than he would get in the NFL.

How well can he do post snap reads when he has only 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball. Are his mechanics going to get worse affecting his throws under those circumstances? Those are questions that there is simply not enough film of him doing to make any kind of judgement.


+2...and I keep coming back to Shurmers preference for a mobile QB which just doesn't jibe with Haskins at all.
No, no, no, no ..........  
Gross Blau Oberst : 3/20/2019 11:41 am : link
Stay away from Haskins.

If the Giants met with Haskin  
Captplanet : 3/20/2019 11:44 am : link
Does this end the "Giants are not even Scouting Haskins" storyline?

Ryan Day and  
BIG FRED 1973 : 3/20/2019 11:44 am : link
Pat Shurmur are really close friends so the Giants will get everything they need on Haskins from Day and probably have for months
RE: RE: RE: I don't think he's a day 1 prospect  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 11:44 am : link
In comment 14349303 Strip-Sack said:
Quote:
In comment 14349297 .McL. said:


Quote:


In comment 14349206 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In today's NFL good footwork is a prerequisite for being a successful QB. There's a reason Ohio State was one of the worst red zone offenses in the country last year...it's because the plays in that area of the field place a heightened emphasis on timing, rhythm, and rehearsed execution from the QB. Haskins is not going to be able to sit in the pocket and wait for his mesh concepts to spring someone open across the field like he did at Ohio St.

I think Haskins is a low ceiling, low floor prospect that was probably born 20 years too late. I wouldn't draft him in the first two rounds, if at all.

I understand the Giants should vet him and put out the appearance of extreme interest, and I'm glad they are. But I'd be unpleasantly shocked if they drafted him.


+1 in general
Footwork can be worked on...
His release is also suspect... Again maybe that cane be worked on...

The real issue with him is what we don't know because we have so few games of him, and rarely was he put in stressful circumstances.

He regularly had 3.5 to 4.5 seconds of protection, much more time than he would get in the NFL.

How well can he do post snap reads when he has only 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball. Are his mechanics going to get worse affecting his throws under those circumstances? Those are questions that there is simply not enough film of him doing to make any kind of judgement.



+2...and I keep coming back to Shurmers preference for a mobile QB which just doesn't jibe with Haskins at all.


Most of the QB's Shurmur has worked with recently really haven't been mobile. Not that it was his call or had anything to do with Eli being here when he got here, but Keenum isn't mobile either. He worked with Foles... Bradford... none of these guys are much more mobile than Haskins (if at all)

Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall Shurmur flat saying that he preferred to work with a mobile QB. I'd be interested in that quote if someone can pull it up.
RE: I don't think he's a day 1 prospect  
English Alaister : 3/20/2019 11:52 am : link
In comment 14349206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In today's NFL good footwork is a prerequisite for being a successful QB. There's a reason Ohio State was one of the worst red zone offenses in the country last year...it's because the plays in that area of the field place a heightened emphasis on timing, rhythm, and rehearsed execution from the QB. Haskins is not going to be able to sit in the pocket and wait for his mesh concepts to spring someone open across the field like he did at Ohio St.

I think Haskins is a low ceiling, low floor prospect that was probably born 20 years too late. I wouldn't draft him in the first two rounds, if at all.

I understand the Giants should vet him and put out the appearance of extreme interest, and I'm glad they are. But I'd be unpleasantly shocked if they drafted him.


Have you read Ian Wharton's analysis? Gave him the best grade since Luck. Not saying he's right but he sees Haskins as high floor.
There's a big difference between...  
BamaBlue : 3/20/2019 11:52 am : link
a 'mobile' quarterback and a guy who can move. Haskins has the ability to shift within the pocket, or to move the pocket. That will never be confused with a 'mobile' quarterback, but equally unfitting for a 'pure pocket passer'.

I don't think having a guy (like Haskins) who can make space is incompatible with the Giants offense and seems to be well within a large group of NFL quarterbacks. I don't think his ceiling is quite a low as some pundits and BBI wizards of smart think...
Over analysis of these guys is so common this time of year by amateurs  
Torrag : 3/20/2019 12:01 pm : link
Most of these prospects succeed based on what they have between their ears so long as they have the requisite talent level. Haskins has both. The content in his interviews and how he carries himself. Football concepts and understanding he still needs to improve.

As a high end QB prospect he ticks all the boxes.

I will acknowledge he ran slowly at the Combine but apparently may have had a minor injury but still ran which shows something imo. It would help in that regard if he can improve that piece of his athletic profile at his Pro Day.
Haskins makes sense  
Thegratefulhead : 3/20/2019 12:11 pm : link
Arm...has it. Big games, crushed them. Apparently he is very intelligent. Loves the Giants. High character. I think Dave T's rumor might be true but wrong player. I think the only way the Giants move up is for a QB. If they decide he is they guy, I think they will move up. Would rather use less capital to get Rosen but Haskins seems like a Dave G guy.
RE: Haskins makes sense  
Pan-handler : 3/20/2019 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14349399 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Arm...has it. Big games, crushed them. Apparently he is very intelligent. Loves the Giants. High character. I think Dave T's rumor might be true but wrong player. I think the only way the Giants move up is for a QB. If they decide he is they guy, I think they will move up. Would rather use less capital to get Rosen but Haskins seems like a Dave G guy.


Could be right on this , the move up would be for Haskins...
RE: RE: Cris Carter...  
bradshaw44 : 3/20/2019 12:33 pm : link
In comment 14349190 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14349179 bw in dc said:


Quote:


is obviously a big Buckeye guy so hes not the most unbiased voice here.



Nothing wrong with Buckeye Central


LOL
Why do I feel like my name has been changed to Toast  
blueblood : 3/20/2019 12:40 pm : link
and Eric is buttering me up today with all the Haskins threads?
Torrag and Gratefulhead...  
.McL. : 3/20/2019 12:51 pm : link
Inteeligence is one thing, but processing speed is another.

A guy can be incredibly intelligent but if he takes too long to process the information of what's happening on the field, then its all for naught.

We don't have a read on Haskins' processing speed.
RE: RE: I don't think he's a day 1 prospect  
DonQuixote : 3/20/2019 1:36 pm : link
In comment 14349337 English Alaister said:
Quote:
In comment 14349206 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In today's NFL good footwork is a prerequisite for being a successful QB. There's a reason Ohio State was one of the worst red zone offenses in the country last year...it's because the plays in that area of the field place a heightened emphasis on timing, rhythm, and rehearsed execution from the QB. Haskins is not going to be able to sit in the pocket and wait for his mesh concepts to spring someone open across the field like he did at Ohio St.

I think Haskins is a low ceiling, low floor prospect that was probably born 20 years too late. I wouldn't draft him in the first two rounds, if at all.

I understand the Giants should vet him and put out the appearance of extreme interest, and I'm glad they are. But I'd be unpleasantly shocked if they drafted him.



Have you read Ian Wharton's analysis? Gave him the best grade since Luck. Not saying he's right but he sees Haskins as high floor.


I was thinking I agree with Terps on this but would like to read this. Do you have a lonk?
RE: RE: RE: I don't think he's a day 1 prospect  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2019 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14349582 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
In comment 14349337 English Alaister said:


Quote:


In comment 14349206 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In today's NFL good footwork is a prerequisite for being a successful QB. There's a reason Ohio State was one of the worst red zone offenses in the country last year...it's because the plays in that area of the field place a heightened emphasis on timing, rhythm, and rehearsed execution from the QB. Haskins is not going to be able to sit in the pocket and wait for his mesh concepts to spring someone open across the field like he did at Ohio St.

I think Haskins is a low ceiling, low floor prospect that was probably born 20 years too late. I wouldn't draft him in the first two rounds, if at all.

I understand the Giants should vet him and put out the appearance of extreme interest, and I'm glad they are. But I'd be unpleasantly shocked if they drafted him.



Have you read Ian Wharton's analysis? Gave him the best grade since Luck. Not saying he's right but he sees Haskins as high floor.



I was thinking I agree with Terps on this but would like to read this. Do you have a lonk?


See link.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't think he's a day 1 prospect  
.McL. : 3/20/2019 2:33 pm : link
In comment 14349313 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14349303 Strip-Sack said:


Quote:


In comment 14349297 .McL. said:


Quote:


In comment 14349206 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In today's NFL good footwork is a prerequisite for being a successful QB. There's a reason Ohio State was one of the worst red zone offenses in the country last year...it's because the plays in that area of the field place a heightened emphasis on timing, rhythm, and rehearsed execution from the QB. Haskins is not going to be able to sit in the pocket and wait for his mesh concepts to spring someone open across the field like he did at Ohio St.

I think Haskins is a low ceiling, low floor prospect that was probably born 20 years too late. I wouldn't draft him in the first two rounds, if at all.

I understand the Giants should vet him and put out the appearance of extreme interest, and I'm glad they are. But I'd be unpleasantly shocked if they drafted him.


+1 in general
Footwork can be worked on...
His release is also suspect... Again maybe that cane be worked on...

The real issue with him is what we don't know because we have so few games of him, and rarely was he put in stressful circumstances.

He regularly had 3.5 to 4.5 seconds of protection, much more time than he would get in the NFL.

How well can he do post snap reads when he has only 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball. Are his mechanics going to get worse affecting his throws under those circumstances? Those are questions that there is simply not enough film of him doing to make any kind of judgement.



+2...and I keep coming back to Shurmers preference for a mobile QB which just doesn't jibe with Haskins at all.



Most of the QB's Shurmur has worked with recently really haven't been mobile. Not that it was his call or had anything to do with Eli being here when he got here, but Keenum isn't mobile either. He worked with Foles... Bradford... none of these guys are much more mobile than Haskins (if at all)

Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall Shurmur flat saying that he preferred to work with a mobile QB. I'd be interested in that quote if someone can pull it up.

Shurmur did make a comment about QB mobility being important, but its not clear exactly what he meant and how far he was going. Is liding around the pocket enough, or does he mean escapability and running ability. He didn't clarify.
RE: I don't think he's a day 1 prospect  
joeinpa : 3/20/2019 5:35 pm : link
In comment 14349206 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In today's NFL good footwork is a prerequisite for being a successful QB. There's a reason Ohio State was one of the worst red zone offenses in the country last year...it's because the plays in that area of the field place a heightened emphasis on timing, rhythm, and rehearsed execution from the QB. Haskins is not going to be able to sit in the pocket and wait for his mesh concepts to spring someone open across the field like he did at Ohio St.

I think Haskins is a low ceiling, low floor prospect that was probably born 20 years too late. I wouldn't draft him in the first two rounds, if at all.

I understand the Giants should vet him and put out the appearance of extreme interest, and I'm glad they are. But I'd be unpleasantly shocked if they drafted him.


Saying a consensus top 5 pick is not a day 1 prospect is a bold statement
Name me...  
damdevs : 3/20/2019 5:36 pm : link
One OSU QB that has been worth a damn since Urban Meyer was there? In fact give me one QB thats been worth a damn that Urban Meyer has coached not named Alex Smith....who he didnt even recruit.

No thanks, Id pass on Haskins.
RE: RE: I don't think he's a day 1 prospect  
bw in dc : 3/20/2019 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14349297 .McL. said:
Quote:


+1 in general
Footwork can be worked on...
His release is also suspect... Again maybe that cane be worked on...

The real issue with him is what we don't know because we have so few games of him, and rarely was he put in stressful circumstances.

He regularly had 3.5 to 4.5 seconds of protection, much more time than he would get in the NFL.

How well can he do post snap reads when he has only 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball. Are his mechanics going to get worse affecting his throws under those circumstances? Those are questions that there is simply not enough film of him doing to make any kind of judgement.


Good thoughts here, especially the change in time and protection he'll experience at the pros vs OSU.
Haskins  
Archer : 3/20/2019 6:16 pm : link
I was hoping that the next Giant QB would be a dual threat
I love Murray and really wanted the Giants to get him

Haskins is a throw back to the stationary pocket passers
I think that the NFL is changing and the more athletic mobile QBs are much more difficult to defend



RE: Haskins  
.McL. : 3/20/2019 6:25 pm : link
In comment 14350276 Archer said:
Quote:
I was hoping that the next Giant QB would be a dual threat
I love Murray and really wanted the Giants to get him

Haskins is a throw back to the stationary pocket passers
I think that the NFL is changing and the more athletic mobile QBs are much more difficult to defend



This fad of "mobile" QBs has come and gone at least 4 times in my lifetime... At the end of the day, a guy who can make the right reads, throw it to the right guy, get it there on time and accurately is always going to be you best bet QB. Running around will always be secondary...

Every 10 years or so you get a super mobile QB thats a sensation, and everybody has to have one... Then they all go back to guys who are throwers.
Haskins  
Archer : 3/20/2019 6:33 pm : link
I keep hearing that the pundits are recommending that the Giants should trade up to get Haskins

If Haskins is there at 6 and the Giants take him I would feel good about the pick.

But, if the Giants trade the 6th, 17th, and 39th for an opportunity to select Haskins I would be very upset
The Giants have so many needs that can be filled by those three picks


Back to the Corner