No holds barred, you can orchestrate a trade up to 1, drop down and get more, blah blah blah. Bottom line, your right now (and it will change 100 times in 30 days) absolute dream picks at 6 and 17. The only thing I ask is to be reasonable with where guys are slated to go and I can't believe I'm saying it, just contribute, let's keep it clean and civil and share some grey matter.
Right now, my dream scenario is
Round 1, Pick 6 - QB Dwayne Haskins, OSU.
Round 1, Pick 17 - WR D.K. Metcalf, Miss St.
OR
Round 1, Pick 17 - TE T.J. Hockenson, Iowa
Chances are Metcalf is long gone by 17 but if there is any way he's there I nab him immediately. He's a matchup problem just with his size and he has elite speed to match it. You add a 6-3 lightning bolt who can block down field to an offense with Evan Engram and Saquon Barkley and a much improved OL from two years ago and you have the pieces in place.
Hockenson would be an immediate starter, updgrade our egde blocking in the run and the pass game and he's a talented down field pass catcher and a lot of times we played best out of 12 personnel and I think Shurmur is going to use a lot of that.
Haskins is the one today, who I want at 6 after his pro day. He looked much much quicker up close footwork wise and his arm talent speaks for itself. I have questions as do others on his experience and how easy he had it at OSU but we're talking prototype size, arm talent, bright kid with a calm demeanor who seems to just get it.
So you'd have finally a solid OL (yes my blind faith in DG means I'm assuming he fixes RT by September), a superstar do it all RB who teams have to box in, a TE/Y in Engram who can absolutely fly and a big strong armed QB with smarts and intangibles. And then a matchup nightmare in Metcalf or a solid reliable two way TE in Hockenson. And flame on!
Get the rush back. Trade for Josh Rosen
This defense is right now ?
#17 EDGE Brian Burns
#37 WR N'keal Harry
Please
17 Greg Little
17 Greg Little
This works too.
#37 Traded to AZ for Rosen
Engram averaged 80 yds a game over the last few games. We added Tate who is better than Shep. Barkley is an amazing receiver out of the backfield. The offense may not be as dangerous without OBj but it can certainly be a good one.
With that said 17 needs to be a defender at a critical spot of need. ER or shutdown corner. I would take Jaylon Ferguson or Greedy if either made it to this spot. Burns in the mix as well. Id get my OT at 37 (as the draft class is uber deep there).
17 - Hockenson
If we trade for Rosen or wait until 2020:
Devin White @ 6
Hockenson or Dillard @ 17
Please
Where do I sign? I'd take this in a heartbeat and be as thrilled as could be.
6. Haskins
17. Devin Bush
With 17, depending on who is available, I honestly wouldn't mind trading it and collecting a first rounder next year, plus more. Accrue enough assets to be able to go QB next year or perhaps, Trevor Lawrence in 2021.
If we kept it, Brian Burns if he was there. He's my sixth overall prospect, but I don't see many mocks having him go in the top-10.
#17 - Cody Ford/Hockenson
IF Q. Williams is gone as is likely
#6 - Jonah - He fix the RT this season and next, but he'll be able to take over at LT to push Nate off the roster
#17 - Hockenson
That said, my dream scenario’s would be Rashan Gary and Devin Bush, or Devin White and Devin Bush. Get some speed and impact players on that side of the ball.
17 - Hockenson
Come on Terps, in the DREAM scenario...Williams will still be there
At #17, Byron Murphy.
+1 can’t separate and always hurt oh yea and he can’t do the number 1 thing a wr should do and that’s catch the football. BB has 2 wr requirements can he catch the ball and create space. No and no he’s at best a round 2 talent.
#17 OT Jawaan Taylor or TE T.J. Hockenson (pretty sure neither will be on the board at 17 - "Dream Scenario"
Based on what? His arm length? I think he has longer arms than Joe Staley.
#17: Dexter Lawrence.
What I tentatively think will happen:
#6: Dwayne Haskins.
#17: Jaylon Ferguson.
Hmmmm. I think he's got RT written all over him, actually.
Dillard at 17.
Quote:
Jonah isn’t a tackle in the nfl he projects inside to guard.
Based on what? His arm length? I think he has longer arms than Joe Staley.
Everyone is hung up on the 1/8" inch shorter than the magical 34" inch cutoff. The "projection" of him playing inside despite never playing a snap inside is ridiculous. Jonah will be our whale. He fixes RT in the short-term while kicking Nate off the roster in 2 years (if not sooner).
17- Dillard
Try to trade back into the late 1st for Bradbury.
This defense is right now ?
And based on some very slow shuttle times at the Combine, that creates more concern about his ability to get in and out of cut for the rest of the route tree...
And based on some very slow shuttle times at the Combine, that creates more concern about his ability to get in and out of cut for the rest of the route tree...
2nd round Nasir Adderley
4th Vosean Joseph
4th Terrill Hanks
5 Justin Layne
5 saivion smith
5 mecole hardman
6 Albert Huggins
#17 Byron Murphy CB
#37 Andre Dillard or Dalton Risner OL - whoever falls
#95 Hakeem Butler or Emanuel Hall or Parris Campbell WR
#108 Jalen Jenks ER
#133 Chase Hansen LB
#142 Salvion Smith CB
#143 Shareef Miller ER
#171 Kendall Joseph LB
#180 Marquise Blair S
#232 Albert Huggins DL
#245 LJ Scott RB
UDFA Brandon Joseph Knight OL
UDFA Marquise Copeland DL
I don't think you can just make two picks at the top without subjecting yourself to criticism that you are ignoring this or that need. We have a plethora of needs all of which I believe are addressed with these selections with the obvious exception of QB.
The common cliche for both Giant management and journalists is to build from the lines out. I think the way this draft falls and the desperate shape that our D finds itself, that it is much easier to draft from the back seven in.
I think DG started to do just that by replacing our two starting safeties with FA's. It is critical to our D that speed and athleticism is increased in both the middle and at our corners if we are to compete in a pass crazy league.
The biggest risk with the above draft imo is to wait until #37 to fill the ORT slot. Draft another potential weapon at WR and then just fill in the D as best you can.
OR Staying Put
#6 Jonah Williams
#17 Clellin Ferrell (cant possibly still be there can he?)
Quote:
He's really a one trick pony - the 9 route.
And based on some very slow shuttle times at the Combine, that creates more concern about his ability to get in and out of cut for the rest of the route tree...
Well we disagree on a WR, will the world keep rotating?? :). To me he's the kind who can be a threat because of that 9 and the height and the speed. He's a go up and get it guy, which may not actually fit what Shurmur does best but tools wise, you don't see that height/speed very often.
Beyond that, as I'm sure you know, I view WRs as mostly widgets - easily found, easily replaceable. ;)
#17 Byron Murphy CB
#37 Andre Dillard or Dalton Risner OL - whoever falls
#95 Hakeem Butler or Emanuel Hall or Parris Campbell WR
#108 Jalen Jenks ER
#133 Chase Hansen LB
#142 Salvion Smith CB
#143 Shareef Miller ER
#171 Kendall Joseph LB
#180 Marquise Blair S
#232 Albert Huggins DL
#245 LJ Scott RB
UDFA Brandon Joseph Knight OL
UDFA Marquise Copeland DL
I don't think you can just make two picks at the top without subjecting yourself to criticism that you are ignoring this or that need. We have a plethora of needs all of which I believe are addressed with these selections with the obvious exception of QB.
The common cliche for both Giant management and journalists is to build from the lines out. I think the way this draft falls and the desperate shape that our D finds itself, that it is much easier to draft from the back seven in.
I think DG started to do just that by replacing our two starting safeties with FA's. It is critical to our D that speed and athleticism is increased in both the middle and at our corners if we are to compete in a pass crazy league.
The biggest risk with the above draft imo is to wait until #37 to fill the ORT slot. Draft another potential weapon at WR and then just fill in the D as best you can.
Do you like Greedy?
#17 EDGE Brian Burns
#37 WR N'keal Harry
Unrealistic:
#6 Josh Allen
#17 Devin White
#37 Trade for Rosen.
More Realistic:
#6 Montez Sweat
#17 Jawaan Taylor or Devin Bush
#37 Dexter Lawrence or Deondre Baker
#17 Byron Murphy CB
I'm big into Murphy, too. He really looked the part at the Combine. And that's definitely a position of need.
#17 Byron Murphy CB
#37 Andre Dillard or Dalton Risner OL - whoever falls
#95 Hakeem Butler or Emanuel Hall or Parris Campbell WR
#108 Jalen Jenks ER
#133 Chase Hansen LB
#142 Salvion Smith CB
#143 Shareef Miller ER
#171 Kendall Joseph LB
#180 Marquise Blair S
#232 Albert Huggins DL
#245 LJ Scott RB
UDFA Brandon Joseph Knight OL
UDFA Marquise Copeland DL
I don't think you can just make two picks at the top without subjecting yourself to criticism that you are ignoring this or that need. We have a plethora of needs all of which I believe are addressed with these selections with the obvious exception of QB.
The common cliche for both Giant management and journalists is to build from the lines out. I think the way this draft falls and the desperate shape that our D finds itself, that it is much easier to draft from the back seven in.
I think DG started to do just that by replacing our two starting safeties with FA's. It is critical to our D that speed and athleticism is increased in both the middle and at our corners if we are to compete in a pass crazy league.
The biggest risk with the above draft imo is to wait until #37 to fill the ORT slot. Draft another potential weapon at WR and then just fill in the D as best you can.
Anyway, you're asking for a DREAM scenario, so that doesn't mean it has to be realistic, right? In that case, give me:
#6 (1600 points) - trade back with Oakland for #24 (740), #27 (680), and #35 (550). Yes - we fall way back but we get a win via points and end up with 5 of the top 37 picks this year.
#17 - Haskins falls to us, future QB solved.
#24 - Hockenson still around - we pick him up and have the stud TE to make the offense work.
#27 - Devin Bush Jr. is the guy needed for Bettcher's defense to work right.
I know you didn't ask, but with the next two picks we end up with Dillard @ OT and Dexter Lawrence on the line.
Build the lines, finish the offense, start to fix the defense, and still have 9 picks remaining this year.
Not.
I just see a guy that big and that fast and imagine DCs shading to his side and then 26 blows past them. It's more of a synergy thing with Barkley. If we had no Saquon, I'd be ignoring a WR like that generally.
1 AZ - Murray
2 SF- Bosa
3 NYJ - Williams
4 OAK - Allen
5 TB - White
6 NYG- Haskins
7 JAX - Gary
8 DET - Sweat
9 BUF - J Taylor
10 DEN - Lock
11 CIN - Metcalf
12 GB - Hockenson
13 MIA - Oliver
14 ATL - Ferrell
15 WAS - Burns
16 CAR - Murphy
17 NYG - Dillard
Have to hope for defense at #37 and beyond.
-Trade #6 to Denver for #10 and #41
-Oliver at #10
-Cody Ford at #17
17. Jonah Williams
2nd round: Dillard, Risner, best available OT in that order
3rd: best available LB, WR, TE in that order
Rest of the draft: rotate the third round positions but keep going, except in round 4 or 5 I will pick Stidham or the big QB (forgot his name)
Consolidate at least 4 picks for best 2020 pick.
With 17, depending on who is available, I honestly wouldn't mind trading it and collecting a first rounder next year, plus more. Accrue enough assets to be able to go QB next year or perhaps, Trevor Lawrence in 2021.
If we kept it, Brian Burns if he was there. He's my sixth overall prospect, but I don't see many mocks having him go in the top-10.
Regarding Burns, perhaps these 3 bullet points will answer your question:
- Lacks functional play strength
- Lacks necessary dog for consistent combat at point of attack
- Gives away his position when setting edge
I’m with quite a few on the dream 1st round which is as follows:
# 6 QWill/ D.White
#17 Hock / Ford
6- DL - Quinnen Williams
17- Edge - Clelin Ferrell
Expecting -
6- DL - Rashan Gary
17- OL - Cody Ford
Not quite a dream: #6 Josh Allen, #17 Drew Lock, #37 Garrett Bradbury.
17. Whatever offensive tackle is rated highest on Giants draft board, assuming the value makes sense at this spot
Joey, since you like Haskins I’m starting to get excited about him. If he is the Giants guy and is the pick at 6 I’m fine with it. Otherwise I want to see us build in the trenches.
Yup. That’s exactly what I was going to say
Could happen if. Somebody trades up for Haskins
#17 - Devin Bush
#37 - K’neal Harry
Set the table, THEN pick a good young QB, next year .
This year - Trade down to #10, pick up OT Jonah Williams, Alabama (via trade with Denver)
Use the proceeds to trade up from #17 to #12 (Green Bay) - TJ Hockenson (kick-ass dude, reminiscent of Jeremy Shockey)
Fix the defense with the 10+ picks left.
Set the table, THEN pick a good young QB, next year .
This year - Trade down to #10, pick up OT Jonah Williams, Alabama (via trade with Denver)
Use the proceeds to trade up from #17 to #12 (Green Bay) - TJ Hockenson (kick-ass dude, reminiscent of Jeremy Shockey)
Fix the defense with the 10+ picks left.
Yup..I agree!
Best OT/LB/ER at #17
Best OL(C, OG/OT), CB at #37
Build the defense and fix the Oline 1st!
Trade #95 and whatever it takes for Rosen...
Realistic Scenario is Devon White @ #6 and Jaylon Ferguson @ #17. We address Ol at #37 and trade up for a corner.
#37 RT Dalton Risner
#95 CB Kris Boyd
#108 ER Jalen Jelks
#133 S Darnell Savage
#142 WR Darius Slayton
#143 DL Kingsley Keke
#171 DL Marquis Copeland
#180 LB Landis Durham
17. Jawaan Taylor OT
37. Jeffrey Simmons DT
#37 RT Dalton Risner
#95 CB Kris Boyd
#108 ER Jalen Jelks
#133 S Darnell Savage
#142 WR Darius Slayton
#143 DL Kingsley Keke
#171 DL Marquis Copeland
#180 LB Landis Durham
I second this draft, don't know much about the bottom 3, but I love the one's above.
17. Devin White/ Greedy Williams/Jawaan Taylor
3rd - Q. Williams
6th - Duane Haskins
37th - Dalton Risner
#10 RT J. Williams (starts day one)
#17 DL - best of a deep group
Rd2 OL - top interior OL, OC, that upgrades Hilapio / Pulley
Rd3 Defense, WR
Rd4 - 7 We have so many holes I just hope we hit on these picks with guys that can actually play more than just special teams.
Sorry, I'm not sold enough on Haskins NOT to take a risk in a trade down.
Realistically, would taking RT J. Williams at #6 be wrong IF you believe he can start at RT as a rookie and potentially LT for Solder? Some say he'll need an off-season in the weight room to add 5 to 10 pounds of muscle, but his technique is so solid that I'm not sure if adding muscle will change his game too too much.
I love J. Allen, Williams, Bosa, D. White, J. Williams - all of them at #6 are worthy.
Set the table, THEN pick a good young QB, next year .
This year - Trade down to #10, pick up OT Jonah Williams, Alabama (via trade with Denver)
Use the proceeds to trade up from #17 to #12 (Green Bay) - TJ Hockenson (kick-ass dude, reminiscent of Jeremy Shockey)
Fix the defense with the 10+ picks left.
Oh, Manny being Manny. Wait. I can't believe I'm saying this, but this is a salient scenario.
I have read what I believe is a contradictory evaluation (by many) about Hockenson.
A: I read he's a complete 2-way TE
B: I read he's a comp to Travis Kelce
Which is it?
Kelce is not a good blocker from what I have read.
so, if Hockenson is another receiving TE, even if he's an upgrade on Engram, why bother?
Or is what I read wrong, and Hockenson is more in the Gronk/Gonzalez mode of a true 2-way TE?
Regardless, I know history shouldn't dictate future but 2 1st round picks on TE's in 3 years is a terrible allocation of your most valuable resources.
My dream scenario would be:
#6 Allen or Sweat are there when the Giants pick
#17 DK Metcalf
my dream "scenario" in round 1 assumes though that the Cards pick Kyler Murray #1 and then the Giants trade a 3rd and Janoris Jenkins to the Cards for Rosen.
At #17 Jaawan Taylor.
#37 A.J. Brown.
If Rosen becomes available, we trade our 3rd this year and what ever else it takes to get him.
So we end up with a DL, OT, WR and QB
Use both #1s next year to move up and get top QB...
#17 Taylor if we don't sign Remmers and then best DL, LB or CB
Use both #1s next year to move up and get top QB...
I think that this is the best post you've ever had.
Let's use Gronk as the ceiling. Excellent and willing in line blocker, excellent receiving, mismatch against anyone in the secondary, split out wide, etc. There is no dispute in that he is a "complete" TE. Blocking - 90; Receiving - 90. (I just can't assign a 100 as no one is perfect)
Then for arguments sake, let's use Engram as a receiving TE. Despite being willing to execute a block as called for on an individual play, he is awful. No amount of weight room/coaching is going to transform him into an inline blocking TE. He is a very good (not great) receiving TE. He still has too many drops that is likely attributed to concentration, but that can be overcome (if the ball is hitting your hands, you have to catch it). Blocking - 25; Receiving - 70;
Now, you brought up Kelce. He is an excellent receiving TE. I don't think anyone will question that aspect, but his blocking is very good. Blocking - 70; Receiving - 85;
Hockenson is a complete TE. He will improve but to make a Gronk comparison is unfair. Blocking - 70; Receiving - 70;
Hockenson fits into the team philosophy that DG wants. If anything, Engram doesn't fit. He has value, and we could use his receiving talent especially with OBJ gone and Shep not likely to remain next year. But if an opportunity presents itself to trade Engram, I wouldn't be shocked. Now, Hockenson might not be available at #17, but if he is, it would be a great value and allow DG's vision of being a power run-first offense come to fruition.
Let's use Gronk as the ceiling. Excellent and willing in line blocker, excellent receiving, mismatch against anyone in the secondary, split out wide, etc. There is no dispute in that he is a "complete" TE. Blocking - 90; Receiving - 90. (I just can't assign a 100 as no one is perfect)
Then for arguments sake, let's use Engram as a receiving TE. Despite being willing to execute a block as called for on an individual play, he is awful. No amount of weight room/coaching is going to transform him into an inline blocking TE. He is a very good (not great) receiving TE. He still has too many drops that is likely attributed to concentration, but that can be overcome (if the ball is hitting your hands, you have to catch it). Blocking - 25; Receiving - 70;
Now, you brought up Kelce. He is an excellent receiving TE. I don't think anyone will question that aspect, but his blocking is very good. Blocking - 70; Receiving - 85;
Hockenson is a complete TE. He will improve but to make a Gronk comparison is unfair. Blocking - 70; Receiving - 70;
Hockenson fits into the team philosophy that DG wants. If anything, Engram doesn't fit. He has value, and we could use his receiving talent especially with OBJ gone and Shep not likely to remain next year. But if an opportunity presents itself to trade Engram, I wouldn't be shocked. Now, Hockenson might not be available at #17, but if he is, it would be a great value and allow DG's vision of being a power run-first offense come to fruition.
Thanks Diver. I didn't realize Kelce was that good a blocker, Belichick was asked once last year to compare Kelce and Gronk and he made it sound like there was a bigger blocking gap.
If it works out that way and the Giants get Hockenson the Giants should look to use the two TE's like the Pats used Gronk and Hernandez. Hernandez rarely, if ever, lined up as an inline blocker, and the Pats used him almost purely as a receiving option (like Giants fans want to do with Engram).
Quote:
trade the #17 pick for an extra 2nd rounder this year and 1st rounder next year.
Use both #1s next year to move up and get top QB...
I think that this is the best post you've ever had.
thanks...its tough to choose from but you could be right.
Quote:
If you can break down the two aspects of a TE (blocking/receiving) and assign a separate grade (0-100) for each skill, you can deduce whether a player is a "complete" TE.
Let's use Gronk as the ceiling. Excellent and willing in line blocker, excellent receiving, mismatch against anyone in the secondary, split out wide, etc. There is no dispute in that he is a "complete" TE. Blocking - 90; Receiving - 90. (I just can't assign a 100 as no one is perfect)
Then for arguments sake, let's use Engram as a receiving TE. Despite being willing to execute a block as called for on an individual play, he is awful. No amount of weight room/coaching is going to transform him into an inline blocking TE. He is a very good (not great) receiving TE. He still has too many drops that is likely attributed to concentration, but that can be overcome (if the ball is hitting your hands, you have to catch it). Blocking - 25; Receiving - 70;
Now, you brought up Kelce. He is an excellent receiving TE. I don't think anyone will question that aspect, but his blocking is very good. Blocking - 70; Receiving - 85;
Hockenson is a complete TE. He will improve but to make a Gronk comparison is unfair. Blocking - 70; Receiving - 70;
Hockenson fits into the team philosophy that DG wants. If anything, Engram doesn't fit. He has value, and we could use his receiving talent especially with OBJ gone and Shep not likely to remain next year. But if an opportunity presents itself to trade Engram, I wouldn't be shocked. Now, Hockenson might not be available at #17, but if he is, it would be a great value and allow DG's vision of being a power run-first offense come to fruition.
Thanks Diver. I didn't realize Kelce was that good a blocker, Belichick was asked once last year to compare Kelce and Gronk and he made it sound like there was a bigger blocking gap.
If it works out that way and the Giants get Hockenson the Giants should look to use the two TE's like the Pats used Gronk and Hernandez. Hernandez rarely, if ever, lined up as an inline blocker, and the Pats used him almost purely as a receiving option (like Giants fans want to do with Engram).
My grades are bit biased. Gronk is very good, but I can't assign a 100 to anyone. That implies perfection which should be unattainable. While Gronk's receiving numbers were as high this year, he is flat out sealing off defenders with his blocking. I really think he is as close to perfection sans injuries as there is when it comes to "complete" TEs. Perhaps, the 90 grades are a bit low. Conversely, when I give a a 25 to Engram, it is based on his willingness. He could easily do an Ole and make business decisions when it comes to blocking, but he tries that accounts for something in my book. As the grades pertain to Hock, my goal was to show that he is very even with both aspects of his game. His receiving should be higher, but it is hard to assign a grade comparing college to NFL. But there were many instances where Hock is running free with the deep safety making difficult catches. A man of his size shouldn't be able to get downfield as freely/smoothly as he does.
Backup:
Draft Allen at 6, and give #17 for Rosen
Backup backup
Draft Allen at 6, and Lock at 17
He's exactly what we need: a hard-nosed dominant Edge Rusher. He'll be every bit as good as his brother and the lynchpin of a D.
An ideal scenario in my mind would likely have us filling those two needs and also getting a DL within the first 3 picks.
I like great busts.
Reality #1, Odel Beckham is G-O-N-E; a "committee is going to try to replace him
Reality #, Evan Engram (try as he can) is NOT the big blocking bruiser that the coaching staff wants him to be. (The running game suffers because of that)
Reality #3 Evan Engram is a 235 lb. man running a 4.4. He's big enough to overpower CBs (and faster than most of them). Engram is the ideal #2 "possession" receiver
Jeremy Shockey is the guy Hockenson reminds me of. I remember, first time I saw him running over people on the field. Michael Strahan almost lost his mind on the sidelines, jumping up-and-down in delight.
#17 OT Jawaan Taylor ... chances he slips not likely but you said dream and it is possible.
#37 WR AJ Brown ... I would love to say Nkeal Harry, but I don't think he or AJ Brown make it here, but if one did it would be AJ Brown who I love.
Q Williams
Oliver
Trade 6+ E.E.
1b
Allen
Wilson wilkins (the DT, wtf name)
1.c
6. Allen as olb
17. Bush as ilb
37. Dexter Laurence as DT
#17 OT Jawaan Taylor ... chances he slips not likely but you said dream and it is possible.
#37 WR AJ Brown ... I would love to say Nkeal Harry, but I don't think he or AJ Brown make it here, but if one did it would be AJ Brown who I love.
Actually scratch this...
#6 Edge rusher Josh Allen ... just so amazing and exactly what we need. you said dream and it is possible. I almost wanted to put Quinnen Williams here but just can't picture him making it in any dream.
#17 Ed Oliver ... There is a chance he falls here and I couldn't pass him up as I want him at 6 if the top 5 is Murray, Haskins, Allen, Bosa, and Q Williams.
#37 RT Dalton Risner ... Nasty RT who will probably be picked in the last part of the 1st and can play Center also. Would love him here.
J Taylor OT at 6
Hockenson or Simmons or Bush at 17