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The race is on for Dwayne Haskins at #2 or #3...

M.S. : 3/21/2019 9:25 am
...well, let's just assume for the moment that a team has to get to either the second or third pick to snag the Ohio State QB.

At #2 San Fran would be willing to trade down because they have Jimmy Garoppolo (and assuming he'll be OK); at #3 the Jets have Darnold. #1 is not in the discussion since it's assumed the Cards are going Kyler Murray.

The approximate point value of second overall pick: 2,600; third overall pick 2,200.

And here is a list of the teams that may trade up to snag Dwayne Haskins and the approximate draft points they have for Rounds 1, 2 and 3:

Oakland Raiders (3,780) -- 4, 24, 27, 35
New York Giants (3,210) -- 6, 17, 37, 95
Denver Broncos (2,035) -- 10, 41, 71
Cincinnati Bengals (1,970) -- 11, 42, 72
Washington Redskins (1,826) -- 15, 46, 76, 96
Miami Dolphins (1,780) -- 13, 48, 78

Clearly the Raiders and the Giants have accrued enough 2019 draft stock to trade up into the second or third slot. Everyone else would probably have to package a 2020 high pick as well.

And if Oakland wants to stay with Derek Carr (which is no guarantee), then the Giants probably hold destiny in their own hands to snag Dwayne Haskins. That said, I don't think the Jets and Giants want to deal with one another, which means the Giants would have to trade for San Fran's #2. And IMO, the #2 will command more points than the standard chart value of 2,200.

Bottom line: I'm gonna venture a guess that the Giants will trade their 6 and 17 (~2,550 Points) for Dwayne Haskins.
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RE: RE: Right...  
bw in dc : 3/21/2019 11:53 am : link
In comment 14351315 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14351306 bw in dc said:


Quote:


so they are all-in on Eli.

I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.



Really? Could it be because it is uttered by people trying to show there is some organizational mandate to keep him, and since you are the ringleader of that type of ridiculousness that you know exactly why that phrase is intentionally used?


Indeed, in 2018 I am absolutely convinced Mara wanted Eli to be the QB and assembled a team around him that agreed.

So that pro-Eli circle is in place and entrenched. And I totally believe Gettleman actually think Eli is the man to lead this team into the playoffs.
I  
AcidTest : 3/21/2019 11:54 am : link
think the Giants realize that Eli is not so much a choice as he is a lack of options at this point in his career. To that extent, they have to be "all in on Eli," simply because at least for this season, there is no one else. But that doesn't mean they don't want to replace him as quickly as possible. The question is whether they can begin that process this year.
RE: Right...  
Bill L : 3/21/2019 11:55 am : link
In comment 14351306 bw in dc said:
Quote:
so they are all-in on Eli.

I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.


What does that mean exactly?

That he is their QB. Like they are all in on Nate Solder? Or Saquon? or any of the other 52?

Or that they are making moves specifically to prop him up as their focal point? As if they are not making the moves to build the team as they would regardless of the QB.

"All in" is a pretty nebulous phrase with lots of negative insinuation but no real substance.
Teams  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/21/2019 11:55 am : link
that are trying to "tank" don't sign Golden Tate to a $37.5 million contract.

I know folks have their personal favorites here. And I've discussed my concerns with Haskins. I also tend to trust jtgiants who says they are not going QB.

But to me (again, maybe it is confirmation bias), all the signs point to Haskins. The only thing I think was a little odd yesterday was that everyone was there except for Gettleman (unless I missed him). But there were 7-9 Giants officials (including Gettleman's replacement as GM) there.
RE: I  
Big Blue '56 : 3/21/2019 11:56 am : link
In comment 14351355 AcidTest said:
Quote:
think the Giants realize that Eli is not so much a choice as he is a lack of options at this point in his career. To that extent, they have to be "all in on Eli," simply because at least for this season, there is no one else. But that doesn't mean they don't want to replace him as quickly as possible. The question is whether they can begin that process this year.


That simple, isnít it buddy?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: To QB or not to QB  
bw in dc : 3/21/2019 11:57 am : link
In comment 14351338 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:


Seriously, itís for one fucking year and his salary is done. We may trade or draft to have someone ready to go..We have plenty of money..No matter where we finish next year draft-wise (assuming itís not first or top 2), there will be many teams who will have more draft capital to move up if they care to, than we do..1 year..Let it go


I'm not so sure this is Eli's last year. How are you? Do you have access to Asshat info you want to relay here?

Would you really be surprised if Eli got an extension? Britt and dep, two of his biggest supporters, tend to this so...
RE: RE: Haskins is the guy to win in this league  
Bill L : 3/21/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14351342 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14351314 BigBlueCane said:


Quote:


if by win you make the playoffs and be 1 and done year after year.

Because that's his ceiling.



And what proof can you offer that this is a true statement about a 21 yr old kid who has never played a down in the NFL.

These kinds of statements are just stupid.


Albeit it's the counter to those posts saying that he is going to be something. Neither really has much standing at this point I suppose.
RE: RE: RE: Right...  
Bill L : 3/21/2019 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14351352 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14351315 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 14351306 bw in dc said:


Quote:


so they are all-in on Eli.

I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.



Really? Could it be because it is uttered by people trying to show there is some organizational mandate to keep him, and since you are the ringleader of that type of ridiculousness that you know exactly why that phrase is intentionally used?



Indeed, in 2018 I am absolutely convinced Mara wanted Eli to be the QB and assembled a team around him that agreed.

So that pro-Eli circle is in place and entrenched. And I totally believe Gettleman actually think Eli is the man to lead this team into the playoffs.


I get it. You're convinced. However, there never was any evidence of that. Would you exclude the possibility that you're merely delusional and quite possibly paranoid?
2 points re: Haskins  
ij_reilly : 3/21/2019 12:03 pm : link
Two negative indicators regarding Haskins:

1. Shurmur stated that he values mobility.Not that he requires a super mobile QB, but he values mobility. This is not a strong suit for Haskins.

2. Gettleman stated that he wants to see multiple years as a starting college QB. Haskins (obviously) has just one year.

This, along with what jtgiants has stated, cause me to say "the Giants are not drafting Haskins".

And then there are the gaping holes elsewhere on the team, particularly defense.

At 6, the Giants will take BPA, of course factoring in need. I just cannot see any way Haskins is BPA. I understand then you have to factor in the value of the position, and need too. That boosts Haskins. But I just don't see it. He lacks the mobility and experience that the Giants have explicitly stated they prefer. And nobody is saying Haskins has "greatness" written all over him.
RE: RE: Right...  
bw in dc : 3/21/2019 12:04 pm : link
In comment 14351358 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14351306 bw in dc said:


Quote:


so they are all-in on Eli.

I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.



What does that mean exactly?


"All in" is a pretty nebulous phrase with lots of negative insinuation but no real substance.


It means we are hitching are fortunes - playoff fortunes per Gettleman - to 38 year old QB making a lot of cap money.

I don't think  
Gman11 : 3/21/2019 12:04 pm : link
it makes a whole lot of sense to trade the #17 pick to move up and get Haskins. They have too many other needs to not get another player with the 17th.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: To QB or not to QB  
Bill L : 3/21/2019 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14351366 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14351338 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:




Seriously, itís for one fucking year and his salary is done. We may trade or draft to have someone ready to go..We have plenty of money..No matter where we finish next year draft-wise (assuming itís not first or top 2), there will be many teams who will have more draft capital to move up if they care to, than we do..1 year..Let it go



I'm not so sure this is Eli's last year. How are you? Do you have access to Asshat info you want to relay here?

Would you really be surprised if Eli got an extension? Britt and dep, two of his biggest supporters, tend to this so...


I would be shocked. And if it did happen, I would probably move into the bunker with you and share your helmet.
RE: I...  
BlueLou'sBack : 3/21/2019 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14350932 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
don't think the race is on at all.


From awhile back I posited that the Giants would need to trade up for Haskins, or to be just as pleased to land Drew Lock at 6. I don't see 2 teams trading above the Giants for both of them.

But until I see reports on the Giants' FO and scouts putting lots more attention to Lock (they were on top of him at the Senior Bowl) my best guess is that they would move up this year if they have to for Haskins. Bear in mind the Oakland rumor for a swap up into the 4 slot.

If the 9ers wouldn't give up the #2 slot for OBJ, likely they have someone targeted at that slot and aren't looking to trade it. The Jets are another story, and I'd bet DG has already spoken with them ... But with 3 "elite" players only (the defenders Q. Williams, Bosa, and Allen) not sure they would bite either.

The Raiders? Who knows what they are doing, or thinking. They already have a gangload of picks, and maybe, like others, look at the 2020 crop and are willing to suck for a year. They get a start over in Vegas soon, and might want to target a QB in coordination with that.

Whatever, throwing shyte against a wall. Thinking the highest they need to move up is that 4 slot.
RE: RE: RE: Right...  
Bill L : 3/21/2019 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14351380 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14351358 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 14351306 bw in dc said:


Quote:


so they are all-in on Eli.

I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.



What does that mean exactly?


"All in" is a pretty nebulous phrase with lots of negative insinuation but no real substance.



It means we are hitching are fortunes - playoff fortunes per Gettleman - to 38 year old QB making a lot of cap money.


Then you're misusing it. They are hitching their fortunes to every single player on the team. again, as people keep saying, for a single year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Right...  
bw in dc : 3/21/2019 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14351378 Bill L said:
Quote:


I get it. You're convinced. However, there never was any evidence of that. Would you exclude the possibility that you're merely delusional and quite possibly paranoid?


There was certainly circumstantial evidence of that. I've written quite extensively about how those dots are connected.

And as I've said, I totally understand why Mara did it. I am disappointed that he got caught up in that vortex when Eli got benched and succumbed to media and fan pressure, but it's his team and has this direction.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Right...  
bw in dc : 3/21/2019 12:11 pm : link
In comment 14351392 bw in dc said:
Quote:

There was certainly circumstantial evidence of that. I've written quite extensively about how those dots are connected.

And as I've said, I totally understand why Mara did it. I am disappointed that he got caught up in that vortex when Eli got benched and succumbed to media and fan pressure, but it's his team and has this direction.


Should read - "...he has set this direction."
I keep remembering all the reasons given for  
joeinpa : 3/21/2019 12:12 pm : link
Passing in the quarterbacks last year. I also read often here how their play after season one proves they were correct.

Yet I see Mayfield, Allen, Darnold, even Rosen and think. These guys have some tools, could turn out to be pretty good, be excited about their potential were anyone of them Giants.

It s all about expectations. I remember Simms and Eli in their rookie years, they turned out pretty good. Not sure when this mantra that you have to be sure, canít make a mistake regarding quarterback last began, but if that dominates your philosophy, Eli will be the quarterback until he canít play at all, maybe some want that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Right...  
Bill L : 3/21/2019 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14351392 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14351378 Bill L said:


Quote:




I get it. You're convinced. However, there never was any evidence of that. Would you exclude the possibility that you're merely delusional and quite possibly paranoid?



There was certainly circumstantial evidence of that. I've written quite extensively about how those dots are connected.

And as I've said, I totally understand why Mara did it. I am disappointed that he got caught up in that vortex when Eli got benched and succumbed to media and fan pressure, but it's his team and has this direction.


I like the linguistic turning here. You speculated something and constructed reasoning to fit your speculation. And then, your second sentence turns the speculation into a truism and uses it as a jumping off point. You're cunning and cagey. Lots to admire here.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Right...  
bw in dc : 3/21/2019 12:13 pm : link
In comment 14351391 Bill L said:
Quote:

Then you're misusing it. They are hitching their fortunes to every single player on the team. again, as people keep saying, for a single year.


Don't be naive. The QB is the main cog of a football team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Right...  
Bill L : 3/21/2019 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14351402 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14351391 Bill L said:


Quote:



Then you're misusing it. They are hitching their fortunes to every single player on the team. again, as people keep saying, for a single year.



Don't be naive. The QB is the main cog of a football team.


They have him as the QB. They've not made purposeful moves to specifically build around him or prop him up. There's simply no "all in" there other than they have him penciled in as the starter. That's like saying that all 31 other teams are "all in" on their QB. There's simply no meaning to the phrase.
I'd hate to give up the kind of Draft Capital that  
Simms11 : 3/21/2019 12:17 pm : link
we need to move up the board, but it's become essential. In a draft deep with Defensive talent that will hurt, because we are so lacking in that department, as well. This draft would go a long way in fixing that side of the ball, if we draft properly.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: To QB or not to QB  
bw in dc : 3/21/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14351384 Bill L said:
Quote:


I'm not so sure this is Eli's last year. How are you? Do you have access to Asshat info you want to relay here?

Would you really be surprised if Eli got an extension? Britt and dep, two of his biggest supporters, tend to this so...



I would be shocked. And if it did happen, I would probably move into the bunker with you and share your helmet.


You'll have to be cleared for admittance, but let's deal with that when the time comes.

I am well stocked in helmets. ;)
RE: RE: I don't think that there's glory in Haskins  
lax counsel : 3/21/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14351284 andrew_nyg said:
Quote:
In comment 14351043 Bill L said:


Quote:


I wold call a move-up more of an act of desperation. Now if it were for Fromm...



Haskins is better than Fromm. You don't throw for nearly 5,000 yards, 50 TD's against 8 ints against the schedule Ohio State has by accident. 1 year be damned, he's a winner.


If college stats meant anything, that might actually be a colorable argument. Too bad they are next to meaningless, as some of you should have learned by citing Davis Webb's college numbers as a reason to why he was as good as anyone in last years draft class.

His numbers could also have been a product of the fact that the his team was significantly more talented than the teams that lined up across from him? Just for a reference point, JT Barrett threw 35tds against 9 ints as the OSU qb. He a good qb?
AND....  
Dnew15 : 3/21/2019 12:34 pm : link
another thread highjacked by the Eli Manning rabbit hole discussion :)
Iíd make that trade with SF  
jeff57 : 3/21/2019 12:34 pm : link
But for Quinnen Williams, not Haskins.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Right...  
bw in dc : 3/21/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14351406 Bill L said:
Quote:


They have him as the QB. They've not made purposeful moves to specifically build around him or prop him up. There's simply no "all in" there other than they have him penciled in as the starter. That's like saying that all 31 other teams are "all in" on their QB. There's simply no meaning to the phrase.


You're kidding, right? Who plays QB for every team is headline news.

And not all positions are created equal in football. You know that. The value of the QB has a high "WAR" value. The most of any position in the game that determines the outcome.

So it's a helluva message to re-commit to a 38 year old QB with declining physical skills. They are seeing things in Eli I just don't see anymore, especially to believe Eli can lead this team to contend for the playoffs...
RE: RE: RE: I don't think that there's glory in Haskins  
bw in dc : 3/21/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14351431 lax counsel said:
Quote:


Haskins is better than Fromm. You don't throw for nearly 5,000 yards, 50 TD's against 8 ints against the schedule Ohio State has by accident. 1 year be damned, he's a winner.



If college stats meant anything, that might actually be a colorable argument. Too bad they are next to meaningless, as some of you should have learned by citing Davis Webb's college numbers as a reason to why he was as good as anyone in last years draft class.

His numbers could also have been a product of the fact that the his team was significantly more talented than the teams that lined up across from him? Just for a reference point, JT Barrett threw 35tds against 9 ints as the OSU qb. He a good qb?


And Barrett rushed for over 800 yards. I always ask that question and never get the greatest reply...
Again, "all in" means *all* the moves are designed for one purpose  
Bill L : 3/21/2019 12:37 pm : link
the purpose here would be to prop up Eli. I just don't see that.
I think yesterday was theater  
Go Terps : 3/21/2019 12:45 pm : link
I don't see them taking Haskins given their situation and what we've heard from jtgiants and JonC. It makes sense that the Giants had a huge contingent there...it's the Ohio State Pro Day and there is a boatload of NFL talent besides the QB.

I think they want someone to trade up in front of them to grab Haskins and push another defender down to them.
Well one thing for sure is that if they draft a RT in the 1st or 2nd  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/21/2019 12:45 pm : link
and they are serviceable there is no excuse for Eli not to perform. Even the E-Hive can agree with that.
People are missing out on the interactions Giants brass had with  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/21/2019 12:47 pm : link
Haskins at his pro day. It sure as hell looked like they think he is the guy just through their body language. Shurmur looked fucking giddy for christ sakes. I wasn't sure that guy felt feelings until yesterday.
If it is theater bravissimo.  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/21/2019 12:49 pm : link
They have finally sold the world on someone not their guy. If the Giants history is any indicator though that isn't the case. I honestly feel that DG not being there was there attempt to possibly not look all in on the guy.
6 and 17? lol  
GeneInCal : 3/21/2019 1:02 pm : link
no chance
RE: Shurmur's interactions with Haskins  
Go Terps : 3/21/2019 1:13 pm : link
I remember in 2012 there were reports that Pete Carroll was "giddy" over Ryan Tannehill in that draft. They actually ended up trading down in the draft and picking Bruce Irvin in round 1 (and Russell Wilson later in the draft).
Terps-  
Sean : 3/21/2019 1:14 pm : link
Would you be okay trading back into the first for Daniel Jones after 6/17 are used elsewhere?
RE: Terps-  
Go Terps : 3/21/2019 1:20 pm : link
In comment 14351537 Sean said:
Quote:
Would you be okay trading back into the first for Daniel Jones after 6/17 are used elsewhere?


I'd rather just go with the next tier of guys (Finley, Stidham, etc.). I don't see a big separation there.
RE: ...  
Emlen'sGremlins : 3/21/2019 1:21 pm : link
Eric from BBI said:
I think some on BBI fell/are falling into a couple of possible traps.

Last year, many (including myself), strongly believed the Giants had to come out of the 2018 NFL Draft with their replacement for Eli. Obviously, despite the drafting of Lauletta (who sadly already seems to be written off by those inside and outside the building), they didn't do that.

Now the reverse seems to have happened, there are those who think the Giants can still wait. Perhaps I'm making the same exact mistake again, but I can't see how the Giants can avoid taking a QB high for the second year in a row. jtgiants thinks the Giants will go this route. He usually knows what is going on. But this is the second year in a row where the Giants will have a shot at the second best QB in the draft. How many chances are they going to have? These opportunities don't come around often.

I said it last night and I'll say it again, what stood out to me yesterday was how chummy Shurmur, Abrams, and Haskins were with each other right out in the open. It was almost as if Haskins was already a Giant.

If the Giants think Haskins is their guy, they will trade up to draft him if they think they are in danger of losing him.

Eric, Remember the Browns owner sitting in the stands with Darnold and his parents last year for an extended amount of time?
doesn't matter what 'All in' means  
fkap : 3/21/2019 1:27 pm : link
those who use it do so in a negative fashion to intentionally troll the waters or slam the Giants organization. They know it. Those who get agitated over it know it. We all know it.

I have mixed emotions over it. On the one hand it irks me. But then I stop and remind myself that it being used to make a fool point or troll. There's no point in trying to stop it. It's an empty, foolish phrase.
No way we move up...  
the mike : 3/21/2019 1:44 pm : link
We rightfully passed on all of the quarterbacks last year and yet now we are going to trade up this year for a much lesser calibre player? The Giants are doing all of the necessary diligence on Haskins/Murray/Lock while playing effective poker with the Cardinals re Rosen and any other team that might throw a haul to us in a trade for our number six.

Gettleman was clear on WFAN Monday when he said he is confident that the Giants can field a solid NFL offense today but have gaping holes on defense. And he repeatedly said you must never draft for need... So, just like last year, despite the desire of the media and fanbase to do desperate and silly things, the Giants will use their early draft picks on best player available and that is likely to be defense.

For the record, I do believe the Giants will come out of the draft with a quarterback but under sensible conditions:

1) If either Murray or Haskins is still there at six and the big three on defense are off the board, AND the Giants rate either of them as high as anyone else on the board, then they should take one of them; my sense though is that guys like Devon White and Montez Sweat will be rated higher.

2) If Cardinals decide to trade Rosen, I would offer this year's third round pick we got from the Browns and perhaps a 3rd/4th pick next year if necessary

3) At seventeen, again, take best player available. My sense is this will again be defense but it could be guys like Metcalf, Hockenson, etc. Lock may slip and be available here and Giants might consider him but again, I doubt it.

4) Some decent quarterbacks might still be available when Jints make their second round pick- guys like Jones/Finley etc... if Giants have them rated high, they might take one. Again, I doubt it... too many flaws to make investment as franchise quarterback and big opportunity cost if guys like Dillard are there....

5) Assuming they still have no quarterback by round four, they might again take a shot at one of the high ceiling, low floor guys like Jackson/Stidham... not sure this makes any more sense than either Webb or Lauletta, but the Jints will no doubt need to fill Lauletta's spot which will be become vacant by September...

6) If still no quarterback, sign Gardner Minshew as an UDFA and take a chance on possible future Drew Brees :) Very unlikely, but zero risk and should become a fan favorite ala Jared Lorenzen...

The best quarterback draft class in a decade is next year.... so there is absolutely no need for desperation or panic. This offense with a vastly improved defense will easily be as good as anyone else in the NFC East in 2019...
again dnew reminder  
BigBlueCane : 3/21/2019 1:58 pm : link
Haskins as the starting QB of THE Ohio State Buckeyes, faced adversity precisely one time and that was at West Lafayette against a Boilermaker team they had considerably more talent then. That Purdue team punched them directly in the mouth repeatedly and not only did they not respond, they folded and sat on their ass.

Haskins owns a large part of that loss since it was his team and his inability to rally his team to mount anything resembling a response says a lot about his personality and none of that was good.

The Giants will wait and draft him at #6 b/c that's what Ownership wants (Mara and Abrams being there says that).
the mike - excellent summary  
ij_reilly : 3/21/2019 2:40 pm : link
Thanks for posting.
People want to talk about the talent discrepency with OSU,  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/21/2019 2:46 pm : link
but this OSU team was unlike any other in the past decade. The defense flat out sucked. Explosive play after explosive play. OSU offense carried that team led by Haskins.
the mike...  
M.S. : 3/21/2019 4:42 pm : link

...your words:

"The best quarterback draft class in a decade is next year.... so there is absolutely no need for desperation or panic. This offense with a vastly improved defense will easily be as good as anyone else in the NFC East in 2019"

I was with you on all of your statements save the last one above. The Giants have the draft capital NOW to secure Haskins (assuming they like him a lot).

But take your last statement to its logical conclusion:

(1) The Giants play well in 2019;
(2) The Giants will not have a premium first round pick in 2020; thus,
(3) The Giants will not have the Draft capital to pick from "the best quarterback draft class in a decade" next year.

Doesn't add up.



RE: Ben  
mrvax : 3/21/2019 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14351021 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
And I may be suffering from a severe case of confirmation bias, but Haskins just reeks of NYG to me. It's very easy for me to see him answering questions from the NY media.


It's very possible but the Giants will have to move up to #2 and give up #17.
RE: RE: Ben  
GFAN52 : 3/21/2019 5:17 pm : link
In comment 14352070 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 14351021 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


And I may be suffering from a severe case of confirmation bias, but Haskins just reeks of NYG to me. It's very easy for me to see him answering questions from the NY media.



It's very possible but the Giants will have to move up to #2 and give up #17.


If they went up to #2, I'd take Bosa or Allen.
RE: the mike...  
the mike : 3/21/2019 6:29 pm : link
In comment 14352009 M.S. said:
Quote:

...your words:

"The best quarterback draft class in a decade is next year.... so there is absolutely no need for desperation or panic. This offense with a vastly improved defense will easily be as good as anyone else in the NFC East in 2019"

I was with you on all of your statements save the last one above. The Giants have the draft capital NOW to secure Haskins (assuming they like him a lot).

But take your last statement to its logical conclusion:

(1) The Giants play well in 2019;
(2) The Giants will not have a premium first round pick in 2020; thus,
(3) The Giants will not have the Draft capital to pick from "the best quarterback draft class in a decade" next year.

Doesn't add up.




If the Giants play well enough to make a run in the playoffs, meaning Eli had a very good year, he will be extended by two years and there will be less urgency to draft a franchise quarterback next year. He will play every bit as long as Brady or Brees, perhaps longer. We can only hope to be so lucky.

Assuming they are a .500 team and they decide not to extend Eli, which is what many in the media and on this site seem to be suggesting at this point, they will be in the mid to late teens. Assuming they will need to move up to the top of the board from that position, it could cost them as much as their three top picks next year and probably one or more top picks the following year. Not painless, but easily doable - it is what the Eagles and Rams did several years ago to get Wentz and Goff. One or more of the three quarterbacks next year meets Gettleman's HOF thesis - so assuming they each stay healthy in 2019, they will no doubt be worth every bit of that draft capital for this team going forward.

And of course, there is always the chance with injuries etc that the Giants finish amongst the bottom of the league again this year and are drafting in the top five for the third year in a row next year. Which would then land them their guy with very little draft capital required, if any.

Adds up quite well actually. But anyway you look at it, it is vital that the Giants "stock up" with as many "best players available" from this year's draft as possible...
Keep in mind  
nicky43 : 3/22/2019 7:00 am : link
that the draft is a chess game for the GMs and they will deploy all kinds of schemes to disguise and throw the other GMs off what they really would like to do. So I don't put much stock in who we send to anyone's pro days or how we respond to questions about any of the potential draftees. That goes for the owners, GMs, coaches and other assistants.

RE: Keep in mind  
M.S. : 3/22/2019 7:11 am : link
In comment 14352538 nicky43 said:
Quote:
that the draft is a chess game for the GMs and they will deploy all kinds of schemes to disguise and throw the other GMs off what they really would like to do. So I don't put much stock in who we send to anyone's pro days or how we respond to questions about any of the potential draftees. That goes for the owners, GMs, coaches and other assistants.

It would be pretty funny (and clever) if the Giants showed all this attention to Dwayne Haskins with the full intention of going defense at #6!
Is this not somewhat contradictory?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2019 10:21 am : link
Gettleman was clear on WFAN Monday when he said he is confident that the Giants can field a solid NFL offense today but have gaping holes on defense. And he repeatedly said you must never draft for need... So, just like last year, despite the desire of the media and fanbase to do desperate and silly things, the [b]Giants will use their early draft picks on best player available and that is likely to be defense.


"never draft for need" is a nice platitude, but one look at this roster on the defensive side indicates a whole bunch of needs at every level, and they're certainly going to draft that way. Nothing they did in free agency has set them up for a draft in which they don't have to feel forced to draft to fill a need. They need everything, from safety to defensive line.
Jets will not trade out of opportunity to pick Williams/Bosa  
Bob in Newburgh : 3/22/2019 10:34 am : link
If Cards really intend to take KM at #1, Jets will not trade down.

Earlier I was sure they would, but that was before one of these two apparently dropped into their laps.
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