...well, let's just assume for the moment that a team has to get to either the second or third pick to snag the Ohio State QB.
At #2 San Fran would be willing to trade down because they have Jimmy Garoppolo (and assuming he'll be OK); at #3 the Jets have Darnold. #1 is not in the discussion since it's assumed the Cards are going Kyler Murray.
The approximate point value of second overall pick: 2,600; third overall pick 2,200.
And here is a list of the teams that may trade up to snag Dwayne Haskins and the approximate draft points they have for Rounds 1, 2 and 3:
Oakland Raiders (3,780) -- 4, 24, 27, 35
New York Giants (3,210) -- 6, 17, 37, 95
Denver Broncos (2,035) -- 10, 41, 71
Cincinnati Bengals (1,970) -- 11, 42, 72
Washington Redskins (1,826) -- 15, 46, 76, 96
Miami Dolphins (1,780) -- 13, 48, 78
Clearly the Raiders and the Giants have accrued enough 2019 draft stock to trade up into the second or third slot. Everyone else would probably have to package a 2020 high pick as well.
And if Oakland wants to stay with Derek Carr (which is no guarantee), then the Giants probably hold destiny in their own hands to snag Dwayne Haskins. That said, I don't think the Jets and Giants want to deal with one another, which means the Giants would have to trade for San Fran's #2. And IMO, the #2 will command more points than the standard chart value of 2,200.
Bottom line: I'm gonna venture a guess that the Giants will trade their 6 and 17 (~2,550 Points) for Dwayne Haskins.
I'd give up our #6 and maybe a second next year. Or a second and a third, one this, one next.
He's good. But not mortgage the future good.
Also realize, if one of those teams jumps us, it means a stud defensive or OL stud falls to us.
And then there is still Rosen to consider for far less
Giants need every one of their first four picks and their early picks next draft on their roster. They really can not afford to trade up.
The marriage of Haskins overhype and QB hysteria is beginning to make me go nuts.
I trust Gettleman to hold firm.
Cincy
Miami
Washington
Denver
However, I do believe Miami will sit tight until 2020 and if we are to believe the Cards are going Murray then one of those other 3 teams is getting Rosen.
Giants need every one of their first four picks and their early picks next draft on their roster. They really can not afford to trade up.
The marriage of Haskins overhype and QB hysteria is beginning to make me go nuts.
I trust Gettleman to hold firm.
+++++++1
Sign me up for staying put at #6 and taking the best DLineman that is there.
Why not suck two years in a row and get the kid from Clemson - he's better than anyone coming out next year.
Rumors are that the Giants won't take Haskins at 6 so they obviously won't trade multiple picks, including a coveted 2020 1st round pick, to move up to the #2 or #3 spot.
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with better and more experienced QBs next year.
Why not suck two years in a row and get the kid from Clemson - he's better than anyone coming out next year.
last season the Jets traded from 6 to 3 just to select one of the qbs. According to the chart they went needed 600 points to move up. They gave up 3 2nd round picks. They gave the 36th pick (value 540) and the 20th pick (value 380) plus and unknown at the time 2019 2nd round pick (which is #34 value 560). That is 1480 points when all they needed was 600.
When it comes to qbs and first round trades throw out the chart. Teams will give a ton over value to get the guy they want.
Now if someone wants to jump us to get a Haskins then all they have to do is trade with TB on draft day. If they want to secure him at any cost then they will have to trade with SF to get the #2 pick overall. I think that the Jets at 3 are motivated to trade and get back some draft capital that they lost last year.
It would push the defensive talent down for the Giants at 6.
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There is no race and definitely not one the Giants can afford to be in.
Giants need every one of their first four picks and their early picks next draft on their roster. They really can not afford to trade up.
The marriage of Haskins overhype and QB hysteria is beginning to make me go nuts.
I trust Gettleman to hold firm.
+++++++1
Oh yea, he really crushed the OBJ trade. I really have no idea how people just blindly trust the guy.
In any event, if the Giants determines that Haskins is a franchise QB, they should pay the price necessary to move up to get him, within reason. If a team is asking for an RG3 type deal, you have to pass. But 6 and 17 is not a horrendous price to pay to get the guy you believe is a franchise QB.
Of course, the Giants sit in the drivers’ seat, to an extent. Last year, teams were wary of trading down too far and missing out on the talent. Will the Jets want to trade down to 15? Even 10? They’d also pass up Quinnen or Bosa.
A lot of variables.
Happy Thursday!
Look elsewhere for the QB.
It would be nice to see it actually play out before declaring it was bad.
Unless there's an agenda at hand.
Last year, many (including myself), strongly believed the Giants had to come out of the 2018 NFL Draft with their replacement for Eli. Obviously, despite the drafting of Lauletta (who sadly already seems to be written off by those inside and outside the building), they didn't do that.
Now the reverse seems to have happened, there are those who think the Giants can still wait. Perhaps I'm making the same exact mistake again, but I can't see how the Giants can avoid taking a QB high for the second year in a row. jtgiants thinks the Giants will go this route. He usually knows what is going on. But this is the second year in a row where the Giants will have a shot at the second best QB in the draft. How many chances are they going to have? These opportunities don't come around often.
I said it last night and I'll say it again, what stood out to me yesterday was how chummy Shurmur, Abrams, and Haskins were with each other right out in the open. It was almost as if Haskins was already a Giant.
If the Giants think Haskins is their guy, they will trade up to draft him if they think they are in danger of losing him.
I know some will say they have to do what's in the best interests of the franchise, but this is a franchise that walking on tip toes out of respect to the QB.
If the Giants don't take Haskins at #6, I think they may well take Rashan Gary, and then take Jaylon Ferguson at #17. If Haskins is still on the board at #6, and the Giants don't want him, I hope they explore trading down to get extra draft assets for 2020.
I'm never "happy" with giving up picks. I hated giving up picks when they got Eli. I was excited that we drafted him, but pissed off we gave up so much.
All I know is this: if you don't have a QB, you can't win in this league.
I desperately want them to address the defense. And I'd love to spend the first three picks on the defensive side of the ball. But again, if you don't have a QB, you can't win.
Regardless of how you feel about how much Eli has left, how many times are the Giants going to be in THIS position to draft a QB high?
1.) The Giants defense was abysmal and its pass rush non-existent. We just traded our best pass rusher and have not replaced him yet. We lost three games last year to division rivals by or touchdown or less because we could not rush the passer. Move those three loses into the win column and we are in the playoff picture. This is a top heavy draft for pass rushers
2.) The Giants are all in on Eli and need to finally solidify the OL. RT is a gaping whole. Wheeler is not the answer nor is anyone one the roster. They have not yet added anyone to fill that whole and any new addition is not a long term solution at this point.
The Giants may draft Haskins if he is there. However, they are not going to sacrifice valuable draft picks to move up for him. This draft is about strengthening the talent base of the entire team which has been bereft of talent for too long.
Sorry, I just can't see them making that move and I think the pieces on the chess board bear that out.
You mention those that think we will wait and also say you cant see us waiting on a QB. Then you say that "jtgiants thinks the Giants will go this route."
Which route?
thanks
Well Eric...I must be suffering from the same disease. I was thinking that during his interview yesterday and every time I hear him speak. I also believe the Giants will give up #17 if they have to to get him. "No guts no glory".
Regardless of what they say publicly, until he's scheduled on paper to be here long term, "all in" is just PR.
Regardless of what they say publicly, until he's scheduled on paper to be here long term, "all in" is just PR.
Maybe I should rephrase things. There is finally a recognition that this offense will only go so far as the OL allows them and filling that hole at RT is crucial for any immediate and longer-term success.
There were teams that were supposedly being smart by passing on QB in 2017 while waiting for the 2018 class that would include Darnold and Rosen, who were already being hyped a year in advance. Those teams passed on Patrick Mahomes in the process.
If you have a conviction on a guy, you take him. You don't wait for the better QB class because you can't draft the whole class anyway - you only pick one of them. Who's to say you don't end up with Todd Blackledge just because you waited for the stronger QB class to enter the draft?
Giants - ( New Window )
100% agree.. The Gmen are doing what they should do about investigation, but, based on DG's comments the other day regarding trades (and position of power) the Giants wouldn't be making such a HUGE show if they wanted to get Haskins. They basically would be telling every team out there they are desperately after Haskins which would put us at a sizeable disadvantage in terms of compensation..
I think if anything, this is to show Cards don't try and eff us on comp for Rosen as we can just draft a guy..
If there are really only a few "stud" players this year, then why would teams trade out from them that need them?
Haskins is not greater than Lock plus all the draft picks we'd save by not trading up. And I don't want either at #6. I probably also wouldn't want Lock or Jones at #17 either.
Or Q. Williams - the best player in the draft. If we keep drafting the best overall player we have to improve...right?
I have no idea what they are going to do. But I certainly think everything is on the table.
Last time they had #2 pick they took Barkley...
I hope that DG is better at hiding intentions than Reese was. Although last year everyone thought he was taking Barkley and sure enough...
that said, hiding intentions at #6 is more important than doing so a #2.
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with better and more experienced QBs next year.
Why not suck two years in a row and get the kid from Clemson - he's better than anyone coming out next year.
And if he blows out his knee or arm? What's the plan?
What a horrible post. What the Giants did in the 1980s has nothing to do with what they would do this year.
I have no idea what they are going to do. But I certainly think everything is on the table.
Maybe, but, if we trade up for Haskins this would be FAR FAR worse than the perceived issue with trading OBJ. With little cap room and lots of needs still we have to keep as many picks as possible.
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The alst time the Giants had the second pick in the first rd they took LT. If the Gmen look to move up to #2 it won't be for Haskins, it will be for Bosa or Allen. The Giants love tradition and history. No way we move to #2 for Haskins.
Last time they had #2 pick they took Barkley...
Damn, I was thinking 3 last year.. grr.. Fuck that then, never mind.
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The alst time the Giants had the second pick in the first rd they took LT. If the Gmen look to move up to #2 it won't be for Haskins, it will be for Bosa or Allen. The Giants love tradition and history. No way we move to #2 for Haskins.
What a horrible post. What the Giants did in the 1980s has nothing to do with what they would do this year.
Really... Hmm, interesting since most here say DG is a dinosaur and the Giants lack forward thinking etc.. But, please, share your fucking thoughts.
Eli would be 1st player taken in this draft (if he were coming out in 2019), just as he was in 2004. Not the same scenario.
Pick either Murray or Haskins if available at #6. If not available, that leaves either Bosa, Q. Williams. J. Allen, White or Wilkins to us.
I like Haskisn but I seriously doubt that he is the greatest rookie QB since Luck.
Sign me up for staying put at #6 and taking the best DLineman that is there.
Not exactly. The big 3 non QB are Q.Will, Allen and Boss.
2 QBs and those 3 are quite possible to go in the top 5.
Then it becomes does your particular team have a guy rated close to those blue-chippers.
Neither. Not at 6. Not at 17. Never.
If Haskins doesnt go 2 he will go 5. Would tampa who just brought in a qb friendly coach take him? or trade down to fill new holes on D.
5 top of the draft and we pick 6th. even a minor trade to 5 could be all we need.
My point was simply that there are gems to be found in supposedly weak QB classes and duds that come out of strong QB classes.
Even in the 2004 draft that we're all so familiar with, there wound up being three HOF QBs... and JP Losman.
Last year, many (including myself), strongly believed the Giants had to come out of the 2018 NFL Draft with their replacement for Eli. Obviously, despite the drafting of Lauletta (who sadly already seems to be written off by those inside and outside the building), they didn't do that.
Now the reverse seems to have happened, there are those who think the Giants can still wait. Perhaps I'm making the same exact mistake again, but I can't see how the Giants can avoid taking a QB high for the second year in a row. jtgiants thinks the Giants will go this route. He usually knows what is going on. But this is the second year in a row where the Giants will have a shot at the second best QB in the draft. How many chances are they going to have? These opportunities don't come around often.
I said it last night and I'll say it again, what stood out to me yesterday was how chummy Shurmur, Abrams, and Haskins were with each other right out in the open. It was almost as if Haskins was already a Giant.
If the Giants think Haskins is their guy, they will trade up to draft him if they think they are in danger of losing him.
Eric ... What if the plan is to get Wilson in FA with some off the new cap space and have him groom the youngster not Eli. The talks that his wife is unhappy in Seattle due to her career taking a hit is not just BS. So with that NY, Cali, Miami or Atl are the spots she'll be ok with and NY is her preferred spot.
Neither. Not at 6. Not at 17. Never.
And you know this how? Oh that’s right you don’t you have as much of a clue as everyone else as to what they do
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Nor are they drafting Lock.
Neither. Not at 6. Not at 17. Never.
And you know this how? Oh that’s right you don’t you have as much of a clue as everyone else as to what they do
I agree. I hate when people try to present as if they know something they don't.
You said it yourself: if you don't have a QB, you can't win. That being said we'll be in position to draft a QB high for the foreseeable future, especially after Eli hangs them up. I know fans hate the thought of tanking or having another year of no hope, but it's worth it in the long run to pick the right QB. If Haskins is that guy, so be it. But if they're drafting the best guy this year out of desperation, the opportunity cost is the QBs in the 2020 and 2021 drafts, AT LEAST. Is Haskins still worth it then?
I think about 75% of the people here assumed the Giants were taking Barkley.
I have no idea what the Giants are going to do come April 25th. Its very possible at this point that the Giants really don't know what they will be doing. There are just so many perms and combs. The bottom line is though as Eric said you can not win in this league without a top-end QB an in all likelihood the Giants will have to trade up at some point to get one if not this year then next. And the question becomes which year is it going to cost more to move up for what quality player.
This year, for example, you only take a Haskins at 6 if you really like him and if you really like him then its hard not to justify moving up to get him. The one thing I am not sure I see is the Giants giving up a ton to move up. One sense I have is that they in part wanted to get the 17th pick to still have a first rounder for the defense if they did indeed use the 6th on a QB.
One other quick point: can we get rid of the 'the Giants are all-in on Eli for another year.' In reality, the Giants are sticking with Eli for another year largely because there really aren't any better options.
Except losing that mantra kneecaps so many people's arguments around here and blows up too many conspiracy theories for it to expect to take hold.
The one thing I disagree with is I'm thinking they Haskins ahead of Murray at this point. Just the interview stuff and demeanor seems like he would scare off the front office coupled with his size.
If they are convinced he is the guy, they should go get him... whatever the cost (They will determine his value).
I think they will have to trade up if they want Haskins.
2. “No guts, no glory.” Doesn’t sound like the type of statement you make if the plan is to stand pat and take the best guy available at #6. Couple that with that with the statements made on Francesa’s show about taking a QB if everything works out, and his comments about following “the Chiefs model.” Clearly addressing the QB position is on his mind.
3. The Gettleman/Accorsi relationship. Gettleman has referenced Ernie several times lately, he is clearly someone he looks to for advice, and Ernie’s signature move so to speak was moving up for Eli. Trading up to grab one of the quarterbacks would be Gettleman’s legacy, just as trading up for Eli is Ernie’s legacy.
Haskins is better than Fromm. You don't throw for nearly 5,000 yards, 50 TD's against 8 ints against the schedule Ohio State has by accident. 1 year be damned, he's a winner.
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Regardless of how you feel about how much Eli has left, how many times are the Giants going to be in THIS position to draft a QB high?
You said it yourself: if you don't have a QB, you can't win. That being said we'll be in position to draft a QB high for the foreseeable future, especially after Eli hangs them up. I know fans hate the thought of tanking or having another year of no hope, but it's worth it in the long run to pick the right QB. If Haskins is that guy, so be it. But if they're drafting the best guy this year out of desperation, the opportunity cost is the QBs in the 2020 and 2021 drafts, AT LEAST. Is Haskins still worth it then?
They’re not tanking, but for argument’s sake, let’s say that happened.Can you imagine this board reacting as they do, with tank loss after tank loss? Look how so many on here IMPLODE during fucking preseason games
One other quick point: can we get rid of the 'the Giants are all-in on Eli for another year.' In reality, the Giants are sticking with Eli for another year largely because there really aren't any better options.
Well, there are better, cheaper options than $17M for a 38 year old QB who struggles with consistency.
So if you think they are keeping Eli just one more year as a placeholder, because that's what you seem to be implying, what's the point of that? To have a $17M co-QB coach? Or to make sure the product on the field is watchable?
Help me understand exactly what you mean here.
Because based on Gettleman's own words, and I can get the quotes from earlier this week, they think Eli can lead this team and contend.
If anything, it supports the point that he's the best option for this year.
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One other quick point: can we get rid of the 'the Giants are all-in on Eli for another year.' In reality, the Giants are sticking with Eli for another year largely because there really aren't any better options.
Well, there are better, cheaper options than $17M for a 38 year old QB who struggles with consistency.
So if you think they are keeping Eli just one more year as a placeholder, because that's what you seem to be implying, what's the point of that? To have a $17M co-QB coach? Or to make sure the product on the field is watchable?
Help me understand exactly what you mean here.
Because based on Gettleman's own words, and I can get the quotes from earlier this week, they think Eli can lead this team and contend.
Many here feel with the OL improved and some pieces on D in place, that we can contend. For perspective, you didn’t care for Eli during our 2 SBs in 4 years run. What you say about Eli and replacing him cheaper is skewed. Heavily so.
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One other quick point: can we get rid of the 'the Giants are all-in on Eli for another year.' In reality, the Giants are sticking with Eli for another year largely because there really aren't any better options.
Well, there are better, cheaper options than $17M for a 38 year old QB who struggles with consistency.
So if you think they are keeping Eli just one more year as a placeholder, because that's what you seem to be implying, what's the point of that? To have a $17M co-QB coach? Or to make sure the product on the field is watchable?
Help me understand exactly what you mean here.
Because based on Gettleman's own words, and I can get the quotes from earlier this week, they think Eli can lead this team and contend.
Where are the better, cheaper options? Manning may not have lit the world on fire the last couple of years, but he has been better than anyone that’s abailabke.
I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.
I actually think Lock is the better player between him and Josh Allen as he is the more willing passer but can take off if need be. If we were to go QB, I wouldn’t be opposed to Haskins or Lock. Lock has the arm strength to play in MetLife
I see what you did there 😄
Many here feel with the OL improved and some pieces on D in place, that we can contend. For perspective, you didn’t care for Eli during our 2 SBs in 4 years run. What you say about Eli and replacing him cheaper is skewed. Heavily so.
I get it - so they are committed to Eli leading this improving team to contend. They are all-in. I don't agree with it as a strategy, but I understand why it is a strategy.
I don't get why Colin, Fat-Mara, etc are so sensitive to that comment.
Because that's his ceiling.
I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.
Really? Could it be because it is uttered by people trying to show there is some organizational mandate to keep him, and since you are the ringleader of that type of ridiculousness that you know exactly why that phrase is intentionally used?
No doubt, but I don't care personally. I've tried to tune out of the in season "discussions" lately anyways.
It would be doubly bizarre to sign a "stop gap" QB like a Bridgewater, etc. so they can help us win enough games to put the top draftable QBs out of reach. Talk about QB hell.
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Many here feel with the OL improved and some pieces on D in place, that we can contend. For perspective, you didn’t care for Eli during our 2 SBs in 4 years run. What you say about Eli and replacing him cheaper is skewed. Heavily so.
I get it - so they are committed to Eli leading this improving team to contend. They are all-in. I don't agree with it as a strategy, but I understand why it is a strategy.
I don't get why Colin, Fat-Mara, etc are so sensitive to that comment.
Seriously, it’s for one fucking year and his salary is done. We may trade or draft to have someone ready to go..We have plenty of money..No matter where we finish next year draft-wise (assuming it’s not first or top 2), there will be many teams who will have more draft capital to move up if they care to, than we do..1 year..Let it go
Because that's his ceiling.
And what proof can you offer that this is a true statement about a 21 yr old kid who has never played a down in the NFL.
These kinds of statements are just stupid.
Eventually you have to have a succession plan after Eli... the only qb we'll have signed for 2020 is Lauletta after Eli's contract expires (and Tanney)
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so they are all-in on Eli.
I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.
Really? Could it be because it is uttered by people trying to show there is some organizational mandate to keep him, and since you are the ringleader of that type of ridiculousness that you know exactly why that phrase is intentionally used?
Indeed, in 2018 I am absolutely convinced Mara wanted Eli to be the QB and assembled a team around him that agreed.
So that pro-Eli circle is in place and entrenched. And I totally believe Gettleman actually think Eli is the man to lead this team into the playoffs.
I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.
What does that mean exactly?
That he is their QB. Like they are all in on Nate Solder? Or Saquon? or any of the other 52?
Or that they are making moves specifically to prop him up as their focal point? As if they are not making the moves to build the team as they would regardless of the QB.
"All in" is a pretty nebulous phrase with lots of negative insinuation but no real substance.
I know folks have their personal favorites here. And I've discussed my concerns with Haskins. I also tend to trust jtgiants who says they are not going QB.
But to me (again, maybe it is confirmation bias), all the signs point to Haskins. The only thing I think was a little odd yesterday was that everyone was there except for Gettleman (unless I missed him). But there were 7-9 Giants officials (including Gettleman's replacement as GM) there.
That simple, isn’t it buddy?
Seriously, it’s for one fucking year and his salary is done. We may trade or draft to have someone ready to go..We have plenty of money..No matter where we finish next year draft-wise (assuming it’s not first or top 2), there will be many teams who will have more draft capital to move up if they care to, than we do..1 year..Let it go
I'm not so sure this is Eli's last year. How are you? Do you have access to Asshat info you want to relay here?
Would you really be surprised if Eli got an extension? Britt and dep, two of his biggest supporters, tend to this so...
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if by win you make the playoffs and be 1 and done year after year.
Because that's his ceiling.
And what proof can you offer that this is a true statement about a 21 yr old kid who has never played a down in the NFL.
These kinds of statements are just stupid.
Albeit it's the counter to those posts saying that he is going to be something. Neither really has much standing at this point I suppose.
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In comment 14351306 bw in dc said:
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so they are all-in on Eli.
I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.
Really? Could it be because it is uttered by people trying to show there is some organizational mandate to keep him, and since you are the ringleader of that type of ridiculousness that you know exactly why that phrase is intentionally used?
Indeed, in 2018 I am absolutely convinced Mara wanted Eli to be the QB and assembled a team around him that agreed.
So that pro-Eli circle is in place and entrenched. And I totally believe Gettleman actually think Eli is the man to lead this team into the playoffs.
I get it. You're convinced. However, there never was any evidence of that. Would you exclude the possibility that you're merely delusional and quite possibly paranoid?
1. Shurmur stated that he values mobility.Not that he requires a super mobile QB, but he values mobility. This is not a strong suit for Haskins.
2. Gettleman stated that he wants to see multiple years as a starting college QB. Haskins (obviously) has just one year.
This, along with what jtgiants has stated, cause me to say "the Giants are not drafting Haskins".
And then there are the gaping holes elsewhere on the team, particularly defense.
At 6, the Giants will take BPA, of course factoring in need. I just cannot see any way Haskins is BPA. I understand then you have to factor in the value of the position, and need too. That boosts Haskins. But I just don't see it. He lacks the mobility and experience that the Giants have explicitly stated they prefer. And nobody is saying Haskins has "greatness" written all over him.
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so they are all-in on Eli.
I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.
What does that mean exactly?
"All in" is a pretty nebulous phrase with lots of negative insinuation but no real substance.
It means we are hitching are fortunes - playoff fortunes per Gettleman - to 38 year old QB making a lot of cap money.
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Seriously, it’s for one fucking year and his salary is done. We may trade or draft to have someone ready to go..We have plenty of money..No matter where we finish next year draft-wise (assuming it’s not first or top 2), there will be many teams who will have more draft capital to move up if they care to, than we do..1 year..Let it go
I'm not so sure this is Eli's last year. How are you? Do you have access to Asshat info you want to relay here?
Would you really be surprised if Eli got an extension? Britt and dep, two of his biggest supporters, tend to this so...
I would be shocked. And if it did happen, I would probably move into the bunker with you and share your helmet.
From awhile back I posited that the Giants would need to trade up for Haskins, or to be just as pleased to land Drew Lock at 6. I don't see 2 teams trading above the Giants for both of them.
But until I see reports on the Giants' FO and scouts putting lots more attention to Lock (they were on top of him at the Senior Bowl) my best guess is that they would move up this year if they have to for Haskins. Bear in mind the Oakland rumor for a swap up into the 4 slot.
If the 9ers wouldn't give up the #2 slot for OBJ, likely they have someone targeted at that slot and aren't looking to trade it. The Jets are another story, and I'd bet DG has already spoken with them ... But with 3 "elite" players only (the defenders Q. Williams, Bosa, and Allen) not sure they would bite either.
The Raiders? Who knows what they are doing, or thinking. They already have a gangload of picks, and maybe, like others, look at the 2020 crop and are willing to suck for a year. They get a start over in Vegas soon, and might want to target a QB in coordination with that.
Whatever, throwing shyte against a wall. Thinking the highest they need to move up is that 4 slot.
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In comment 14351306 bw in dc said:
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so they are all-in on Eli.
I don't understand the sensitivity to this phrase.
What does that mean exactly?
"All in" is a pretty nebulous phrase with lots of negative insinuation but no real substance.
It means we are hitching are fortunes - playoff fortunes per Gettleman - to 38 year old QB making a lot of cap money.
Then you're misusing it. They are hitching their fortunes to every single player on the team. again, as people keep saying, for a single year.
I get it. You're convinced. However, there never was any evidence of that. Would you exclude the possibility that you're merely delusional and quite possibly paranoid?
There was certainly circumstantial evidence of that. I've written quite extensively about how those dots are connected.
And as I've said, I totally understand why Mara did it. I am disappointed that he got caught up in that vortex when Eli got benched and succumbed to media and fan pressure, but it's his team and has this direction.
There was certainly circumstantial evidence of that. I've written quite extensively about how those dots are connected.
And as I've said, I totally understand why Mara did it. I am disappointed that he got caught up in that vortex when Eli got benched and succumbed to media and fan pressure, but it's his team and has this direction.
Should read - "...he has set this direction."
Yet I see Mayfield, Allen, Darnold, even Rosen and think. These guys have some tools, could turn out to be pretty good, be excited about their potential were anyone of them Giants.
It s all about expectations. I remember Simms and Eli in their rookie years, they turned out pretty good. Not sure when this mantra that you have to be sure, can’t make a mistake regarding quarterback last began, but if that dominates your philosophy, Eli will be the quarterback until he can’t play at all, maybe some want that.
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I get it. You're convinced. However, there never was any evidence of that. Would you exclude the possibility that you're merely delusional and quite possibly paranoid?
There was certainly circumstantial evidence of that. I've written quite extensively about how those dots are connected.
And as I've said, I totally understand why Mara did it. I am disappointed that he got caught up in that vortex when Eli got benched and succumbed to media and fan pressure, but it's his team and has this direction.
I like the linguistic turning here. You speculated something and constructed reasoning to fit your speculation. And then, your second sentence turns the speculation into a truism and uses it as a jumping off point. You're cunning and cagey. Lots to admire here.
Then you're misusing it. They are hitching their fortunes to every single player on the team. again, as people keep saying, for a single year.
Don't be naive. The QB is the main cog of a football team.
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Then you're misusing it. They are hitching their fortunes to every single player on the team. again, as people keep saying, for a single year.
Don't be naive. The QB is the main cog of a football team.
They have him as the QB. They've not made purposeful moves to specifically build around him or prop him up. There's simply no "all in" there other than they have him penciled in as the starter. That's like saying that all 31 other teams are "all in" on their QB. There's simply no meaning to the phrase.
I'm not so sure this is Eli's last year. How are you? Do you have access to Asshat info you want to relay here?
Would you really be surprised if Eli got an extension? Britt and dep, two of his biggest supporters, tend to this so...
I would be shocked. And if it did happen, I would probably move into the bunker with you and share your helmet.
You'll have to be cleared for admittance, but let's deal with that when the time comes.
I am well stocked in helmets. ;)
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I wold call a move-up more of an act of desperation. Now if it were for Fromm...
Haskins is better than Fromm. You don't throw for nearly 5,000 yards, 50 TD's against 8 ints against the schedule Ohio State has by accident. 1 year be damned, he's a winner.
If college stats meant anything, that might actually be a colorable argument. Too bad they are next to meaningless, as some of you should have learned by citing Davis Webb's college numbers as a reason to why he was as good as anyone in last years draft class.
His numbers could also have been a product of the fact that the his team was significantly more talented than the teams that lined up across from him? Just for a reference point, JT Barrett threw 35tds against 9 ints as the OSU qb. He a good qb?
They have him as the QB. They've not made purposeful moves to specifically build around him or prop him up. There's simply no "all in" there other than they have him penciled in as the starter. That's like saying that all 31 other teams are "all in" on their QB. There's simply no meaning to the phrase.
You're kidding, right? Who plays QB for every team is headline news.
And not all positions are created equal in football. You know that. The value of the QB has a high "WAR" value. The most of any position in the game that determines the outcome.
So it's a helluva message to re-commit to a 38 year old QB with declining physical skills. They are seeing things in Eli I just don't see anymore, especially to believe Eli can lead this team to contend for the playoffs...
Haskins is better than Fromm. You don't throw for nearly 5,000 yards, 50 TD's against 8 ints against the schedule Ohio State has by accident. 1 year be damned, he's a winner.
If college stats meant anything, that might actually be a colorable argument. Too bad they are next to meaningless, as some of you should have learned by citing Davis Webb's college numbers as a reason to why he was as good as anyone in last years draft class.
His numbers could also have been a product of the fact that the his team was significantly more talented than the teams that lined up across from him? Just for a reference point, JT Barrett threw 35tds against 9 ints as the OSU qb. He a good qb?
And Barrett rushed for over 800 yards. I always ask that question and never get the greatest reply...
I think they want someone to trade up in front of them to grab Haskins and push another defender down to them.
I'd rather just go with the next tier of guys (Finley, Stidham, etc.). I don't see a big separation there.
I think some on BBI fell/are falling into a couple of possible traps.
Last year, many (including myself), strongly believed the Giants had to come out of the 2018 NFL Draft with their replacement for Eli. Obviously, despite the drafting of Lauletta (who sadly already seems to be written off by those inside and outside the building), they didn't do that.
Now the reverse seems to have happened, there are those who think the Giants can still wait. Perhaps I'm making the same exact mistake again, but I can't see how the Giants can avoid taking a QB high for the second year in a row. jtgiants thinks the Giants will go this route. He usually knows what is going on. But this is the second year in a row where the Giants will have a shot at the second best QB in the draft. How many chances are they going to have? These opportunities don't come around often.
I said it last night and I'll say it again, what stood out to me yesterday was how chummy Shurmur, Abrams, and Haskins were with each other right out in the open. It was almost as if Haskins was already a Giant.
If the Giants think Haskins is their guy, they will trade up to draft him if they think they are in danger of losing him.
Eric, Remember the Browns owner sitting in the stands with Darnold and his parents last year for an extended amount of time?
I have mixed emotions over it. On the one hand it irks me. But then I stop and remind myself that it being used to make a fool point or troll. There's no point in trying to stop it. It's an empty, foolish phrase.
Gettleman was clear on WFAN Monday when he said he is confident that the Giants can field a solid NFL offense today but have gaping holes on defense. And he repeatedly said you must never draft for need... So, just like last year, despite the desire of the media and fanbase to do desperate and silly things, the Giants will use their early draft picks on best player available and that is likely to be defense.
For the record, I do believe the Giants will come out of the draft with a quarterback but under sensible conditions:
1) If either Murray or Haskins is still there at six and the big three on defense are off the board, AND the Giants rate either of them as high as anyone else on the board, then they should take one of them; my sense though is that guys like Devon White and Montez Sweat will be rated higher.
2) If Cardinals decide to trade Rosen, I would offer this year's third round pick we got from the Browns and perhaps a 3rd/4th pick next year if necessary
3) At seventeen, again, take best player available. My sense is this will again be defense but it could be guys like Metcalf, Hockenson, etc. Lock may slip and be available here and Giants might consider him but again, I doubt it.
4) Some decent quarterbacks might still be available when Jints make their second round pick- guys like Jones/Finley etc... if Giants have them rated high, they might take one. Again, I doubt it... too many flaws to make investment as franchise quarterback and big opportunity cost if guys like Dillard are there....
5) Assuming they still have no quarterback by round four, they might again take a shot at one of the high ceiling, low floor guys like Jackson/Stidham... not sure this makes any more sense than either Webb or Lauletta, but the Jints will no doubt need to fill Lauletta's spot which will be become vacant by September...
6) If still no quarterback, sign Gardner Minshew as an UDFA and take a chance on possible future Drew Brees :) Very unlikely, but zero risk and should become a fan favorite ala Jared Lorenzen...
The best quarterback draft class in a decade is next year.... so there is absolutely no need for desperation or panic. This offense with a vastly improved defense will easily be as good as anyone else in the NFC East in 2019...
Haskins owns a large part of that loss since it was his team and his inability to rally his team to mount anything resembling a response says a lot about his personality and none of that was good.
The Giants will wait and draft him at #6 b/c that's what Ownership wants (Mara and Abrams being there says that).
...your words:
"The best quarterback draft class in a decade is next year.... so there is absolutely no need for desperation or panic. This offense with a vastly improved defense will easily be as good as anyone else in the NFC East in 2019"
I was with you on all of your statements save the last one above. The Giants have the draft capital NOW to secure Haskins (assuming they like him a lot).
But take your last statement to its logical conclusion:
(1) The Giants play well in 2019;
(2) The Giants will not have a premium first round pick in 2020; thus,
(3) The Giants will not have the Draft capital to pick from "the best quarterback draft class in a decade" next year.
Doesn't add up.
It's very possible but the Giants will have to move up to #2 and give up #17.
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And I may be suffering from a severe case of confirmation bias, but Haskins just reeks of NYG to me. It's very easy for me to see him answering questions from the NY media.
It's very possible but the Giants will have to move up to #2 and give up #17.
If they went up to #2, I'd take Bosa or Allen.
...your words:
"The best quarterback draft class in a decade is next year.... so there is absolutely no need for desperation or panic. This offense with a vastly improved defense will easily be as good as anyone else in the NFC East in 2019"
I was with you on all of your statements save the last one above. The Giants have the draft capital NOW to secure Haskins (assuming they like him a lot).
But take your last statement to its logical conclusion:
(1) The Giants play well in 2019;
(2) The Giants will not have a premium first round pick in 2020; thus,
(3) The Giants will not have the Draft capital to pick from "the best quarterback draft class in a decade" next year.
Doesn't add up.
If the Giants play well enough to make a run in the playoffs, meaning Eli had a very good year, he will be extended by two years and there will be less urgency to draft a franchise quarterback next year. He will play every bit as long as Brady or Brees, perhaps longer. We can only hope to be so lucky.
Assuming they are a .500 team and they decide not to extend Eli, which is what many in the media and on this site seem to be suggesting at this point, they will be in the mid to late teens. Assuming they will need to move up to the top of the board from that position, it could cost them as much as their three top picks next year and probably one or more top picks the following year. Not painless, but easily doable - it is what the Eagles and Rams did several years ago to get Wentz and Goff. One or more of the three quarterbacks next year meets Gettleman's HOF thesis - so assuming they each stay healthy in 2019, they will no doubt be worth every bit of that draft capital for this team going forward.
And of course, there is always the chance with injuries etc that the Giants finish amongst the bottom of the league again this year and are drafting in the top five for the third year in a row next year. Which would then land them their guy with very little draft capital required, if any.
Adds up quite well actually. But anyway you look at it, it is vital that the Giants "stock up" with as many "best players available" from this year's draft as possible...
It would be pretty funny (and clever) if the Giants showed all this attention to Dwayne Haskins with the full intention of going defense at #6!
"never draft for need" is a nice platitude, but one look at this roster on the defensive side indicates a whole bunch of needs at every level, and they're certainly going to draft that way. Nothing they did in free agency has set them up for a draft in which they don't have to feel forced to draft to fill a need. They need everything, from safety to defensive line.
Earlier I was sure they would, but that was before one of these two apparently dropped into their laps.