...well, let's just assume for the moment that a team has to get to either the second or third pick to snag the Ohio State QB.
At #2 San Fran would be willing to trade down because they have Jimmy Garoppolo (and assuming he'll be OK); at #3 the Jets have Darnold. #1 is not in the discussion since it's assumed the Cards are going Kyler Murray.
The approximate point value of second overall pick: 2,600; third overall pick 2,200.
And here is a list of the teams that may trade up to snag Dwayne Haskins and the approximate draft points they have for Rounds 1, 2 and 3:
Oakland Raiders (3,780) -- 4, 24, 27, 35
New York Giants (3,210) -- 6, 17, 37, 95
Denver Broncos (2,035) -- 10, 41, 71
Cincinnati Bengals (1,970) -- 11, 42, 72
Washington Redskins (1,826) -- 15, 46, 76, 96
Miami Dolphins (1,780) -- 13, 48, 78
Clearly the Raiders and the Giants have accrued enough 2019 draft stock to trade up into the second or third slot. Everyone else would probably have to package a 2020 high pick as well.
And if Oakland wants to stay with Derek Carr (which is no guarantee), then the Giants probably hold destiny in their own hands to snag Dwayne Haskins. That said, I don't think the Jets and Giants want to deal with one another, which means the Giants would have to trade for San Fran's #2. And IMO, the #2 will command more points than the standard chart value of 2,200.
Bottom line: I'm gonna venture a guess that the Giants will trade their 6 and 17 (~2,550 Points) for Dwayne Haskins.
I'd give up our #6 and maybe a second next year. Or a second and a third, one this, one next.
He's good. But not mortgage the future good.
Also realize, if one of those teams jumps us, it means a stud defensive or OL stud falls to us.
And then there is still Rosen to consider for far less
Giants need every one of their first four picks and their early picks next draft on their roster. They really can not afford to trade up.
The marriage of Haskins overhype and QB hysteria is beginning to make me go nuts.
I trust Gettleman to hold firm.
Cincy
Miami
Washington
Denver
However, I do believe Miami will sit tight until 2020 and if we are to believe the Cards are going Murray then one of those other 3 teams is getting Rosen.
Giants need every one of their first four picks and their early picks next draft on their roster. They really can not afford to trade up.
The marriage of Haskins overhype and QB hysteria is beginning to make me go nuts.
I trust Gettleman to hold firm.
+++++++1
Sign me up for staying put at #6 and taking the best DLineman that is there.
Why not suck two years in a row and get the kid from Clemson - he's better than anyone coming out next year.
Rumors are that the Giants won't take Haskins at 6 so they obviously won't trade multiple picks, including a coveted 2020 1st round pick, to move up to the #2 or #3 spot.
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with better and more experienced QBs next year.
Why not suck two years in a row and get the kid from Clemson - he's better than anyone coming out next year.
last season the Jets traded from 6 to 3 just to select one of the qbs. According to the chart they went needed 600 points to move up. They gave up 3 2nd round picks. They gave the 36th pick (value 540) and the 20th pick (value 380) plus and unknown at the time 2019 2nd round pick (which is #34 value 560). That is 1480 points when all they needed was 600.
When it comes to qbs and first round trades throw out the chart. Teams will give a ton over value to get the guy they want.
Now if someone wants to jump us to get a Haskins then all they have to do is trade with TB on draft day. If they want to secure him at any cost then they will have to trade with SF to get the #2 pick overall. I think that the Jets at 3 are motivated to trade and get back some draft capital that they lost last year.
It would push the defensive talent down for the Giants at 6.
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There is no race and definitely not one the Giants can afford to be in.
Giants need every one of their first four picks and their early picks next draft on their roster. They really can not afford to trade up.
The marriage of Haskins overhype and QB hysteria is beginning to make me go nuts.
I trust Gettleman to hold firm.
+++++++1
Oh yea, he really crushed the OBJ trade. I really have no idea how people just blindly trust the guy.
In any event, if the Giants determines that Haskins is a franchise QB, they should pay the price necessary to move up to get him, within reason. If a team is asking for an RG3 type deal, you have to pass. But 6 and 17 is not a horrendous price to pay to get the guy you believe is a franchise QB.
Of course, the Giants sit in the drivers’ seat, to an extent. Last year, teams were wary of trading down too far and missing out on the talent. Will the Jets want to trade down to 15? Even 10? They’d also pass up Quinnen or Bosa.
A lot of variables.
Happy Thursday!
Look elsewhere for the QB.
It would be nice to see it actually play out before declaring it was bad.
Unless there's an agenda at hand.
Last year, many (including myself), strongly believed the Giants had to come out of the 2018 NFL Draft with their replacement for Eli. Obviously, despite the drafting of Lauletta (who sadly already seems to be written off by those inside and outside the building), they didn't do that.
Now the reverse seems to have happened, there are those who think the Giants can still wait. Perhaps I'm making the same exact mistake again, but I can't see how the Giants can avoid taking a QB high for the second year in a row. jtgiants thinks the Giants will go this route. He usually knows what is going on. But this is the second year in a row where the Giants will have a shot at the second best QB in the draft. How many chances are they going to have? These opportunities don't come around often.
I said it last night and I'll say it again, what stood out to me yesterday was how chummy Shurmur, Abrams, and Haskins were with each other right out in the open. It was almost as if Haskins was already a Giant.
If the Giants think Haskins is their guy, they will trade up to draft him if they think they are in danger of losing him.
I know some will say they have to do what's in the best interests of the franchise, but this is a franchise that walking on tip toes out of respect to the QB.
If the Giants don't take Haskins at #6, I think they may well take Rashan Gary, and then take Jaylon Ferguson at #17. If Haskins is still on the board at #6, and the Giants don't want him, I hope they explore trading down to get extra draft assets for 2020.
I'm never "happy" with giving up picks. I hated giving up picks when they got Eli. I was excited that we drafted him, but pissed off we gave up so much.
All I know is this: if you don't have a QB, you can't win in this league.
I desperately want them to address the defense. And I'd love to spend the first three picks on the defensive side of the ball. But again, if you don't have a QB, you can't win.
Regardless of how you feel about how much Eli has left, how many times are the Giants going to be in THIS position to draft a QB high?
1.) The Giants defense was abysmal and its pass rush non-existent. We just traded our best pass rusher and have not replaced him yet. We lost three games last year to division rivals by or touchdown or less because we could not rush the passer. Move those three loses into the win column and we are in the playoff picture. This is a top heavy draft for pass rushers
2.) The Giants are all in on Eli and need to finally solidify the OL. RT is a gaping whole. Wheeler is not the answer nor is anyone one the roster. They have not yet added anyone to fill that whole and any new addition is not a long term solution at this point.
The Giants may draft Haskins if he is there. However, they are not going to sacrifice valuable draft picks to move up for him. This draft is about strengthening the talent base of the entire team which has been bereft of talent for too long.
Sorry, I just can't see them making that move and I think the pieces on the chess board bear that out.
You mention those that think we will wait and also say you cant see us waiting on a QB. Then you say that "jtgiants thinks the Giants will go this route."
Which route?
thanks
Well Eric...I must be suffering from the same disease. I was thinking that during his interview yesterday and every time I hear him speak. I also believe the Giants will give up #17 if they have to to get him. "No guts no glory".
Regardless of what they say publicly, until he's scheduled on paper to be here long term, "all in" is just PR.
Regardless of what they say publicly, until he's scheduled on paper to be here long term, "all in" is just PR.
Maybe I should rephrase things. There is finally a recognition that this offense will only go so far as the OL allows them and filling that hole at RT is crucial for any immediate and longer-term success.
There were teams that were supposedly being smart by passing on QB in 2017 while waiting for the 2018 class that would include Darnold and Rosen, who were already being hyped a year in advance. Those teams passed on Patrick Mahomes in the process.
If you have a conviction on a guy, you take him. You don't wait for the better QB class because you can't draft the whole class anyway - you only pick one of them. Who's to say you don't end up with Todd Blackledge just because you waited for the stronger QB class to enter the draft?
Giants - ( New Window )
100% agree.. The Gmen are doing what they should do about investigation, but, based on DG's comments the other day regarding trades (and position of power) the Giants wouldn't be making such a HUGE show if they wanted to get Haskins. They basically would be telling every team out there they are desperately after Haskins which would put us at a sizeable disadvantage in terms of compensation..
I think if anything, this is to show Cards don't try and eff us on comp for Rosen as we can just draft a guy..
If there are really only a few "stud" players this year, then why would teams trade out from them that need them?
Haskins is not greater than Lock plus all the draft picks we'd save by not trading up. And I don't want either at #6. I probably also wouldn't want Lock or Jones at #17 either.