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Gettleman's Record in Carolina

Pascal4554 : 3/21/2019 10:31 am
I was discussing Gettleman's track record in another thread about whether he "inherited" the Panther team he took over. I thought this discussion deserves it's own thread.

I think it is helpful to look at the numbers vs. specific decisions in a vacuum. Gettleman's record in Carolina 40-23-1 over four seasons. Reese's record for the same time period 26-38 (and yes Reese gets credit for all of the 2017 shit show even though he was fired during the season).

So was Gettleman's 40-23-1 Carolina record which included the 2015 15-1 team that played for the Super Bowl all a mirage? Does he get any credit for it? Or is he just one lucky old buffoon?

I do think there are fair criticisms to be made of Gettleman, but do I think Gettleman likes to play up the "old guy" shtick and is smarter then he lets on. I think he likes to ham it up with the media, but I don't believe he is telling the media the whole truth about what he is thinking or what is going on. Like he said "it is not his job". I'm willing to give him a chance.
Of course he deserves a chance  
BillyM : 3/21/2019 10:33 am : link
He also has an extensive resume prior to Carolina in various roles.

I may be in the minority here, but given 12 picks, given where we stand today with a better OL, and given that in one year we are going to have $120 million in cap space, I feel better about the Giants right now than I did when the season concluded.

Many posters here on bbi say he inherited all the key players  
The_Boss : 3/21/2019 10:34 am : link
On that 15-1 team.
RE: Many posters here on bbi say he inherited all the key players  
Josh in the City : 3/21/2019 10:35 am : link
In comment 14351126 The_Boss said:
Quote:
On that 15-1 team.

Then subsequently got rid of them.
Gettleman.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/21/2019 10:36 am : link
had a couple glaring weaknesses in Carolina.

- He missed on picking a viable WR
- He was too blunt and straightforward for building a rapport with the players.

He was very good at providing depth in the OL and DL and for getting good value from DB picks. And ultimately, the team he left behind has been worse since his departure.

He also wasn't afraid to cut bait with vets who were posing cap problems or were about to. He got rid of guys like DeAngelo Williams and Steve Smith, who fans really liked, and he got rid of Josh Norman, who nobody really liked and who feuded with Cam.

His downfall was trying to look at options for Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen, both guys who missed significant time in the two years since Gettleman left and both who are gone this year probably. Davis is already gone.
If you don't give  
bluepepper : 3/21/2019 10:37 am : link
credit to Reese for the 2 Super Bowls than under no circumstances can you give Gettleman credit for his job in Carolina. End of discussion.
Boss & Josh.  
Pascal4554 : 3/21/2019 10:38 am : link
Thanks. His record in Carolina really surprised me when I looked it up. I thought it would have been worse.
Thanks Fatman  
Pascal4554 : 3/21/2019 10:39 am : link
good analysis.
People forget his time with the Giants as Director of player personnel  
Captplanet : 3/21/2019 10:44 am : link
From 1999 to 2012
The Giants went to 3 superbowls, won 2 Superbowls and only missed the playoffs 5 times in 13 years... but since ESPN says he should have gotten more for Odell he must suck now.
RE: If you don't give  
Pascal4554 : 3/21/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14351140 bluepepper said:
Quote:
credit to Reese for the 2 Super Bowls than under no circumstances can you give Gettleman credit for his job in Carolina. End of discussion.


Ok. Guess Reese should have a job for life for winning two super bowls? I was a Reese supporter/ fan boy for far too long based on those super bowls. Reese's total record as a GM 91-85, 52% winning percentage. Gettleman 63%. Gettleman has a smaller sample size.
RE: If you don't give  
madeinstars : 3/21/2019 10:46 am : link
In comment 14351140 bluepepper said:
Quote:
credit to Reese for the 2 Super Bowls than under no circumstances can you give Gettleman credit for his job in Carolina. End of discussion.


Exactly. Lots of olks on here say Reese doesn't deserve credit for 2007, because he inherited Accorsi's team. If you argue that, you can not argue that Gettleman deserves credit for 15-1.
Again  
Greg from LI : 3/21/2019 10:51 am : link
That 15-1 team had the following All-Pro/Pro Bowlers on the roster: Newton, Olsen, Stewart, Tolbert, Davis, Kuechly, Norman, Kalil, Turner, Short. All but Turner and Short were inherited by Gettleman. It's laughable to claim he built that team.
This..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/21/2019 10:53 am : link
really hasn't been an issue:

Quote:
If you argue that, you can not argue that Gettleman deserves credit for 15-1.


Since Day 1 of his hire, most on BBI have looked at Gettleman without even discussing Carolina. It is like a time warp exists, and that's even ignoring crap he takes for "shunning analytics", even though just a precusory look at his time in Carolina would show otherwise.

They judge him as being hired in a sham event, blindly following the orders of the owner and to be a yes man.

In fact, one poster actually has said a number of times that Gettleman didn't have any offers, took the only one he was going to get and has no problem being a yes man to ride out his career.

It's frustrating that a take like that is more prevalent here than looking at the complete body of work, but you have some really dumb fucks posting
We slobber all over Little Bill trading guys a year early  
widmerseyebrow : 3/21/2019 10:54 am : link
vs. a year too late, but Gettleman is just an asshole who sends talented vets packing for draft picks.

Not saying he's perfect, but it's an odd double standard for those who extol the Patriot Way.
RE: Again  
Pascal4554 : 3/21/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14351175 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
That 15-1 team had the following All-Pro/Pro Bowlers on the roster: Newton, Olsen, Stewart, Tolbert, Davis, Kuechly, Norman, Kalil, Turner, Short. All but Turner and Short were inherited by Gettleman. It's laughable to claim he built that team.


I'm not saying he didn't inherit some pieces. He did. But if the team was so good why did the old GM get fired and Gettleman hired?
Greg.  
Pascal4554 : 3/21/2019 10:58 am : link
I'm not claiming he built the team. But I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the super bowl with a below average GM.
RE: Greg.  
Greg from LI : 3/21/2019 11:00 am : link
In comment 14351191 Pascal4554 said:
Quote:
I'm not claiming he built the team. But I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the super bowl with a below average GM.


Really? The Dave Gettleman Fan Club all think Jerry Reese is the dumbest man on the face of the earth and he was the GM for two actual title teams, not one team that lost the Super Bowl.
RE: We slobber all over Little Bill trading guys a year early  
Greg from LI : 3/21/2019 11:01 am : link
In comment 14351183 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
vs. a year too late, but Gettleman is just an asshole who sends talented vets packing for draft picks.

Not saying he's perfect, but it's an odd double standard for those who extol the Patriot Way.


Bill Belichick has the pelts on the wall. Gettleman, as a GM, does not.
RE: RE: Again  
bw in dc : 3/21/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14351186 Pascal4554 said:
Quote:
In comment 14351175 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


That 15-1 team had the following All-Pro/Pro Bowlers on the roster: Newton, Olsen, Stewart, Tolbert, Davis, Kuechly, Norman, Kalil, Turner, Short. All but Turner and Short were inherited by Gettleman. It's laughable to claim he built that team.



I'm not saying he didn't inherit some pieces. He did. But if the team was so good why did the old GM get fired and Gettleman hired?


Marty Hurney built key infrastructure for the team Gettleman inherited in Carolina.

I'm not sure exactly the reason why he was fired in 2012 - they did get off to a very bad start that year - but he did negotiate some poor contracts that hurt the team's cap position...
Gettleman added Shaq Thompson, Funchess, and Daryl WIlliams  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/21/2019 11:10 am : link
at the end of the first, second, and fourth rounds the year they went to the super bowl. They also added special teams ace David Mayo in 5th. That is a helluva a haul.
RE: RE: Greg.  
Pascal4554 : 3/21/2019 11:24 am : link
In comment 14351197 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14351191 Pascal4554 said:


Quote:


I'm not claiming he built the team. But I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the super bowl with a below average GM.



Really? The Dave Gettleman Fan Club all think Jerry Reese is the dumbest man on the face of the earth and he was the GM for two actual title teams, not one team that lost the Super Bowl.


I never said Reese was the dumbest man on the face of the earth. Trying to have an objective discussion about Gettleman that is not all or nothing.
RE: RE: Greg.  
GiantGrit : 3/21/2019 11:26 am : link
In comment 14351197 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14351191 Pascal4554 said:


Quote:


I'm not claiming he built the team. But I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the super bowl with a below average GM.



Really? The Dave Gettleman Fan Club all think Jerry Reese is the dumbest man on the face of the earth and he was the GM for two actual title teams, not one team that lost the Super Bowl.


"Everyone who likes Dave Gettleman rips Jerry Reese" is a bigger reach than taking the Giants taking Ereck Flowers top 10. What even is that comment? Jerry Reese is barely discussed here anymore.
I have been arguing until I am blue in the face  
Essex : 3/21/2019 11:28 am : link
that this is a man who has been to 9 superbowls, he has been a part of the scouting departments for the Bills AFC titles dynasty and he also helped build the back to back Broncos champs in the late 90s. He was here for 13 years as a top executive and made three super bowls, then he went out on his own and built a 15-1 team in his third year (not the year he got there) and that team went to the Super Bowl. This Clueless Dave myth by the sports pundits is absolutely insane. Now, I will freely admit, I do not think I would have traded Odel and I also freely admit that I thought the Giants should go in a different direction when they hired him, but this notion that he is clueless and does not know what he is doing is not based on the entirety of his career. If he fails here, it will be the first place he has failed. I think he should get some time (and as other posters have aptly pointed out, the Giants will be totally rehauled over the next two seasons and Gettleman with 12 draft picks and 120 million dollars in cap room have put us in a good space to do that). So, let's actually have some patience.
It's like..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/21/2019 11:29 am : link
everyone forgot "In Reese we trust" because it doesn't fit a narrative.

People can both appreciate Reese for playing a part in the two SB's and also complain about him being a part of subsequent terrible drafts, just like people can appreciate Coughlin and say it was still time to part ways.

Not sure why that is a foreign concept
"Dave Gettleman Fan Club"  
GiantGrit : 3/21/2019 11:34 am : link
Is a funny way of ripping fans who look at the guys extensive record of success and think "wow maybe he does know what he is doing"

No, it does not guarantee his success here. I'm sorry that the Jonathan Stewart signing didn't sway my overall feelings on the guy.
I still..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/21/2019 11:36 am : link
find it bizarre that fans get ripped for supporting people:

Quote:
"Dave Gettleman Fan Club"
GiantGrit : 11:34 am : link : reply
Is a funny way of ripping fans who look at the guys extensive record of success and think "wow maybe he does know what he is doing"

No, it does not guarantee his success here. I'm sorry that the Jonathan Stewart signing didn't sway my overall feelings on the guy.


The Gettleman Fan Club
Eli Apologists
Pollyannas
Coughlinites


I think it is far more odd to follow a team and hate so many people associated with it.
RE: RE: Greg.  
djm : 3/21/2019 11:38 am : link
In comment 14351197 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14351191 Pascal4554 said:


Quote:


I'm not claiming he built the team. But I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the super bowl with a below average GM.



Really? The Dave Gettleman Fan Club all think Jerry Reese is the dumbest man on the face of the earth and he was the GM for two actual title teams, not one team that lost the Super Bowl.


Iím a huge fan of DG and I thought Reese was a solid GM who struggled down the stretch and was all but sabatoged by a shitty Mara hire, mcadoo.

Youíve kind of become a characature with some of your sweeping takes here lately.
You forgot Luddites  
figgy2989 : 3/21/2019 11:38 am : link
.
He absolutely does not have "an extensive record of success" as a GM  
Greg from LI : 3/21/2019 11:41 am : link
.
RE: It's like..  
Pascal4554 : 3/21/2019 11:41 am : link
In comment 14351281 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
everyone forgot "In Reese we trust" because it doesn't fit a narrative.

People can both appreciate Reese for playing a part in the two SB's and also complain about him being a part of subsequent terrible drafts, just like people can appreciate Coughlin and say it was still time to part ways.

Not sure why that is a foreign concept


This is what I have been trying to say. You said it better than I could.
RE: He absolutely does not have  
GiantGrit : 3/21/2019 11:48 am : link
In comment 14351316 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


True or false - when he was with the Broncos, Bills, Panthers and Giants each team achieved a ton of success?
Was he the GM of the Broncos or Bills?  
Greg from LI : 3/21/2019 11:49 am : link
.
Gettleman's resume  
GiantGrit : 3/21/2019 11:55 am : link
As executive
2◊ Super Bowl champion (XLII, XLVI)
4◊ NFC Champion (2000, 2007, 2011, 2015)

As administrator
5◊ AFC Champion (1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1997)
Super Bowl champion (XXXII)

But he wasn't a GM for all of those accolades, so they just don't count?
I give Eli far more credit for 2 super Bowls  
Paulie Walnuts : 3/21/2019 12:11 pm : link
Reese gets huge credit for 2007 and that draft.. but he was shit after
Scouts are now "administrators"?  
Greg from LI : 3/21/2019 12:58 pm : link
hah
RE: Scouts are now  
GiantGrit : 3/21/2019 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14351497 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
hah


That's your best response to his resume? Yikes
Fine with giving DG all the credit in the world  
Jimmy Googs : 3/21/2019 1:21 pm : link
if he can turn around this mess in 3 years or less.

And we shouldn't give a crap about his time in Charlotte or anything else...
"Yikes" Oh, clutch those pearls!  
Greg from LI : 3/21/2019 1:25 pm : link
You're the one trying to puff up his resumes by blathering about all of his Super Bowls as an "administrator", when he was simply a scout, a cog in the machine.
Greg  
Chris684 : 3/21/2019 1:31 pm : link
You are the Maggie Gray of BBI.

Your football arguments are basically in lockstep with those vomited on that horrible radio program from her and Bart Scott.

I may be misremembering but as Director of Pro Personnel  
Ivan15 : 3/21/2019 1:33 pm : link
DG was responsible for identifying free agents and in-season acquisitions. In his last 2 seasons, he had more of a Consulting role in pro personnel. So when he moved up or aside, thatís when the Giants team depth really started to suffer.
Who asked you to get involved, nonentity?  
Greg from LI : 3/21/2019 1:33 pm : link
.
also, nice job identifying yourself as one of the dolts who actually  
Greg from LI : 3/21/2019 1:35 pm : link
listens to the lowest form of sports media, talk radio. Truly, you are a towering intellect.
Hey...  
Chris684 : 3/21/2019 1:37 pm : link
It's not my fault your stupid talking points are the same as theirs.



RE:  
GiantGrit : 3/21/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14351563 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
You're the one trying to puff up his resumes by blathering about all of his Super Bowls as an "administrator", when he was simply a scout, a cog in the machine.


Eat a snickers Greg
RE: I have been arguing until I am blue in the face  
BillKo : 3/21/2019 2:08 pm : link
In comment 14351278 Essex said:
Quote:
that this is a man who has been to 9 superbowls, he has been a part of the scouting departments for the Bills AFC titles dynasty and he also helped build the back to back Broncos champs in the late 90s. He was here for 13 years as a top executive and made three super bowls, then he went out on his own and built a 15-1 team in his third year (not the year he got there) and that team went to the Super Bowl. This Clueless Dave myth by the sports pundits is absolutely insane. Now, I will freely admit, I do not think I would have traded Odel and I also freely admit that I thought the Giants should go in a different direction when they hired him, but this notion that he is clueless and does not know what he is doing is not based on the entirety of his career. If he fails here, it will be the first place he has failed. I think he should get some time (and as other posters have aptly pointed out, the Giants will be totally rehauled over the next two seasons and Gettleman with 12 draft picks and 120 million dollars in cap room have put us in a good space to do that). So, let's actually have some patience.


Essex - I'm on board.....he's got a track record.

He's just into Year Two. The draft is huge, due to the number of picks.

Just sit back and watch it happen...............
I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the  
arniefez : 3/21/2019 2:17 pm : link
super bowl with a below average GM.

What about a team that actually wins the Super Bowl and goes 12-4 the next year and then wins a another super bowl 3 years later? Can that GM be below average?

Just curious.
My point is more of who am I going to believe some dope on ESPN  
Essex : 3/21/2019 2:23 pm : link
like Graziano, who has never done a damn thing in his life or a guy who knows what a winning organization looks like and has been part of one everywhere he has been. That is not to say he canít be criticized by these talking heads, but betting against teams Gettleman has been associated with has been a bad bet. Moreover, nobody is saying this plan will work, but again, I will let it play out before I start ringing the alarm or claiming he is a failure. Some people have not earned the benefit of the doubt; I think he has and I will give it to him.
RE: Scouts are now  
Leg of Theismann : 3/21/2019 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14351497 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
hah


Greg, that's what Wikipedia calls them. See Link.

It's not like "Administrator" is a super-fancy respected title. When I think of an administrator I think of someone who gets the coffee and hands out the mail.
See "Career History" on right - ( New Window )
Reese's biggest problem when he was promoted to GM  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/21/2019 2:29 pm : link
was his Giant blind spot in Marc Ross. He also couldn't evaluate offensive lineman very well, which is an issue when you have a pocket passer. Instead the sold themselves with the basketball on grass mentality which is more fitting for a mobile QB. Give Eli an offensive line and he'd make his receivers better by virtue of his talent as a pocket passer. Just having Eli as the face of the franchise was at odds to the strengths of JR as a talent evaluator.
In 2012 - a year before DG  
mrvax : 3/21/2019 2:41 pm : link
came to the Panthers, they had a 7-9 record.
DG at GM:
2013: 12-4
2014: 7-8-1
2015: 15-1
2016: 6-10

Seems like the team went up & down.
The following 2 years they had an 11 win season and then another 7 win. Really unusual for so many swings back and forth.
That's what the Panthers have always been  
Greg from LI : 3/21/2019 3:09 pm : link
As Fat Man has noted, despite a bunch of double digit win seasons, they have never had consecutive winning seasons.
Yep..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/21/2019 3:19 pm : link
it is truly a statistical oddity.

The Panthers have never had back-to-back winning seasons. And even though they were an expansion team have only had back-to-back losing seasons 3 times in their existence.
RE: I have been arguing until I am blue in the face  
Pascal4554 : 3/21/2019 3:19 pm : link
In comment 14351278 Essex said:
Quote:
that this is a man who has been to 9 superbowls, he has been a part of the scouting departments for the Bills AFC titles dynasty and he also helped build the back to back Broncos champs in the late 90s. He was here for 13 years as a top executive and made three super bowls, then he went out on his own and built a 15-1 team in his third year (not the year he got there) and that team went to the Super Bowl. This Clueless Dave myth by the sports pundits is absolutely insane. Now, I will freely admit, I do not think I would have traded Odel and I also freely admit that I thought the Giants should go in a different direction when they hired him, but this notion that he is clueless and does not know what he is doing is not based on the entirety of his career. If he fails here, it will be the first place he has failed. I think he should get some time (and as other posters have aptly pointed out, the Giants will be totally rehauled over the next two seasons and Gettleman with 12 draft picks and 120 million dollars in cap room have put us in a good space to do that). So, let's actually have some patience.


Thanks Essex. You basically are saying what I was trying to say only better and with less words.
RE: In 2012 - a year before DG  
BillKo : 3/21/2019 3:27 pm : link
In comment 14351714 mrvax said:
Quote:
came to the Panthers, they had a 7-9 record.
DG at GM:
2013: 12-4
2014: 7-8-1
2015: 15-1
2016: 6-10

Seems like the team went up & down.
The following 2 years they had an 11 win season and then another 7 win. Really unusual for so many swings back and forth.


Playoff 3 of four years though.

And in 2014, I remember them playing really well at the end of the season.

2016 was a SB hangover no doubt.............
RE: I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the  
Pascal4554 : 3/21/2019 3:32 pm : link
In comment 14351660 arniefez said:
Quote:
super bowl with a below average GM.

What about a team that actually wins the Super Bowl and goes 12-4 the next year and then wins a another super bowl 3 years later? Can that GM be below average?

Just curious.


I've been a long time lurker on this site. I was in the "Reese we Trust" camp for far too long. Yes, Reese gets credit for the two super bowls AND we can criticize for his failures after the last Super Bowl. I think most would agree that the 2007 Super Bowl team was better and the 2011 team had already started to decline. But yes 2011 was a still a magical season and I do give Reese credit for that. However, if you still want Reese as our GM, we can agree to disagree on that.
Reese  
Lines of Scrimmage : 3/21/2019 3:57 pm : link
did a lot of good thing in a long Giant tenure. He did however, seem to have a shift in philosophy/style when he bought Ross in. The Giants became a soft team after 2012.

I am hopeful that that DG is going to makes the Giants strong at least in both trenches which at least makes us competitive and you a chance.

I think we'll see much higher upside though, but still in down years be alive in December. No more looking at the first series of a season knowing this team can't be competitive. We have seen two many of those for too long.

RE: RE: Greg.  
Gettledogman : 3/21/2019 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14351197 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14351191 Pascal4554 said:


Quote:


I'm not claiming he built the team. But I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the super bowl with a below average GM.



Really? The Dave Gettleman Fan Club all think Jerry Reese is the dumbest man on the face of the earth and he was the GM for two actual title teams, not one team that lost the Super Bowl.


Uhh wasnt it Gettleman that also helped Acorsi and then Reese with those first few drafts and FA signings?
RE: I have been arguing until I am blue in the face  
Gettledogman : 3/21/2019 4:16 pm : link
In comment 14351278 Essex said:
Quote:
that this is a man who has been to 9 superbowls, he has been a part of the scouting departments for the Bills AFC titles dynasty and he also helped build the back to back Broncos champs in the late 90s. He was here for 13 years as a top executive and made three super bowls, then he went out on his own and built a 15-1 team in his third year (not the year he got there) and that team went to the Super Bowl. This Clueless Dave myth by the sports pundits is absolutely insane. Now, I will freely admit, I do not think I would have traded Odel and I also freely admit that I thought the Giants should go in a different direction when they hired him, but this notion that he is clueless and does not know what he is doing is not based on the entirety of his career. If he fails here, it will be the first place he has failed. I think he should get some time (and as other posters have aptly pointed out, the Giants will be totally rehauled over the next two seasons and Gettleman with 12 draft picks and 120 million dollars in cap room have put us in a good space to do that). So, let's actually have some patience.


Solid
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