I was discussing Gettleman's track record in another thread about whether he "inherited" the Panther team he took over. I thought this discussion deserves it's own thread.
I think it is helpful to look at the numbers vs. specific decisions in a vacuum. Gettleman's record in Carolina 40-23-1 over four seasons. Reese's record for the same time period 26-38 (and yes Reese gets credit for all of the 2017 shit show even though he was fired during the season).
So was Gettleman's 40-23-1 Carolina record which included the 2015 15-1 team that played for the Super Bowl all a mirage? Does he get any credit for it? Or is he just one lucky old buffoon?
I do think there are fair criticisms to be made of Gettleman, but do I think Gettleman likes to play up the "old guy" shtick and is smarter then he lets on. I think he likes to ham it up with the media, but I don't believe he is telling the media the whole truth about what he is thinking or what is going on. Like he said "it is not his job". I'm willing to give him a chance.
I may be in the minority here, but given 12 picks, given where we stand today with a better OL, and given that in one year we are going to have $120 million in cap space, I feel better about the Giants right now than I did when the season concluded.
Then subsequently got rid of them.
- He missed on picking a viable WR
- He was too blunt and straightforward for building a rapport with the players.
He was very good at providing depth in the OL and DL and for getting good value from DB picks. And ultimately, the team he left behind has been worse since his departure.
He also wasn't afraid to cut bait with vets who were posing cap problems or were about to. He got rid of guys like DeAngelo Williams and Steve Smith, who fans really liked, and he got rid of Josh Norman, who nobody really liked and who feuded with Cam.
His downfall was trying to look at options for Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen, both guys who missed significant time in the two years since Gettleman left and both who are gone this year probably. Davis is already gone.
The Giants went to 3 superbowls, won 2 Superbowls and only missed the playoffs 5 times in 13 years... but since ESPN says he should have gotten more for Odell he must suck now.
Ok. Guess Reese should have a job for life for winning two super bowls? I was a Reese supporter/ fan boy for far too long based on those super bowls. Reese's total record as a GM 91-85, 52% winning percentage. Gettleman 63%. Gettleman has a smaller sample size.
Exactly. Lots of olks on here say Reese doesn't deserve credit for 2007, because he inherited Accorsi's team. If you argue that, you can not argue that Gettleman deserves credit for 15-1.
Since Day 1 of his hire, most on BBI have looked at Gettleman without even discussing Carolina. It is like a time warp exists, and that's even ignoring crap he takes for "shunning analytics", even though just a precusory look at his time in Carolina would show otherwise.
They judge him as being hired in a sham event, blindly following the orders of the owner and to be a yes man.
In fact, one poster actually has said a number of times that Gettleman didn't have any offers, took the only one he was going to get and has no problem being a yes man to ride out his career.
It's frustrating that a take like that is more prevalent here than looking at the complete body of work, but you have some really dumb fucks posting
Not saying he's perfect, but it's an odd double standard for those who extol the Patriot Way.
I'm not saying he didn't inherit some pieces. He did. But if the team was so good why did the old GM get fired and Gettleman hired?
Really? The Dave Gettleman Fan Club all think Jerry Reese is the dumbest man on the face of the earth and he was the GM for two actual title teams, not one team that lost the Super Bowl.
Not saying he's perfect, but it's an odd double standard for those who extol the Patriot Way.
Bill Belichick has the pelts on the wall. Gettleman, as a GM, does not.
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That 15-1 team had the following All-Pro/Pro Bowlers on the roster: Newton, Olsen, Stewart, Tolbert, Davis, Kuechly, Norman, Kalil, Turner, Short. All but Turner and Short were inherited by Gettleman. It's laughable to claim he built that team.
I'm not saying he didn't inherit some pieces. He did. But if the team was so good why did the old GM get fired and Gettleman hired?
Marty Hurney built key infrastructure for the team Gettleman inherited in Carolina.
I'm not sure exactly the reason why he was fired in 2012 - they did get off to a very bad start that year - but he did negotiate some poor contracts that hurt the team's cap position...
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I'm not claiming he built the team. But I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the super bowl with a below average GM.
Really? The Dave Gettleman Fan Club all think Jerry Reese is the dumbest man on the face of the earth and he was the GM for two actual title teams, not one team that lost the Super Bowl.
I never said Reese was the dumbest man on the face of the earth. Trying to have an objective discussion about Gettleman that is not all or nothing.
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I'm not claiming he built the team. But I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the super bowl with a below average GM.
Really? The Dave Gettleman Fan Club all think Jerry Reese is the dumbest man on the face of the earth and he was the GM for two actual title teams, not one team that lost the Super Bowl.
"Everyone who likes Dave Gettleman rips Jerry Reese" is a bigger reach than taking the Giants taking Ereck Flowers top 10. What even is that comment? Jerry Reese is barely discussed here anymore.
People can both appreciate Reese for playing a part in the two SB's and also complain about him being a part of subsequent terrible drafts, just like people can appreciate Coughlin and say it was still time to part ways.
Not sure why that is a foreign concept
No, it does not guarantee his success here. I'm sorry that the Jonathan Stewart signing didn't sway my overall feelings on the guy.
GiantGrit : 11:34 am : link : reply
Is a funny way of ripping fans who look at the guys extensive record of success and think "wow maybe he does know what he is doing"
No, it does not guarantee his success here. I'm sorry that the Jonathan Stewart signing didn't sway my overall feelings on the guy.
The Gettleman Fan Club
Eli Apologists
Pollyannas
Coughlinites
I think it is far more odd to follow a team and hate so many people associated with it.
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I'm not claiming he built the team. But I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the super bowl with a below average GM.
Really? The Dave Gettleman Fan Club all think Jerry Reese is the dumbest man on the face of the earth and he was the GM for two actual title teams, not one team that lost the Super Bowl.
I’m a huge fan of DG and I thought Reese was a solid GM who struggled down the stretch and was all but sabatoged by a shitty Mara hire, mcadoo.
You’ve kind of become a characature with some of your sweeping takes here lately.
People can both appreciate Reese for playing a part in the two SB's and also complain about him being a part of subsequent terrible drafts, just like people can appreciate Coughlin and say it was still time to part ways.
Not sure why that is a foreign concept
This is what I have been trying to say. You said it better than I could.
True or false - when he was with the Broncos, Bills, Panthers and Giants each team achieved a ton of success?
2× Super Bowl champion (XLII, XLVI)
4× NFC Champion (2000, 2007, 2011, 2015)
As administrator
5× AFC Champion (1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1997)
Super Bowl champion (XXXII)
But he wasn't a GM for all of those accolades, so they just don't count?
That's your best response to his resume? Yikes
And we shouldn't give a crap about his time in Charlotte or anything else...
Your football arguments are basically in lockstep with those vomited on that horrible radio program from her and Bart Scott.
Eat a snickers Greg
Essex - I'm on board.....he's got a track record.
He's just into Year Two. The draft is huge, due to the number of picks.
Just sit back and watch it happen...............
What about a team that actually wins the Super Bowl and goes 12-4 the next year and then wins a another super bowl 3 years later? Can that GM be below average?
Just curious.
Greg, that's what Wikipedia calls them. See Link.
It's not like "Administrator" is a super-fancy respected title. When I think of an administrator I think of someone who gets the coffee and hands out the mail.
See "Career History" on right - ( New Window )
DG at GM:
2013: 12-4
2014: 7-8-1
2015: 15-1
2016: 6-10
Seems like the team went up & down.
The following 2 years they had an 11 win season and then another 7 win. Really unusual for so many swings back and forth.
The Panthers have never had back-to-back winning seasons. And even though they were an expansion team have only had back-to-back losing seasons 3 times in their existence.
Thanks Essex. You basically are saying what I was trying to say only better and with less words.
DG at GM:
2013: 12-4
2014: 7-8-1
2015: 15-1
2016: 6-10
Seems like the team went up & down.
The following 2 years they had an 11 win season and then another 7 win. Really unusual for so many swings back and forth.
Playoff 3 of four years though.
And in 2014, I remember them playing really well at the end of the season.
2016 was a SB hangover no doubt.............
What about a team that actually wins the Super Bowl and goes 12-4 the next year and then wins a another super bowl 3 years later? Can that GM be below average?
Just curious.
I've been a long time lurker on this site. I was in the "Reese we Trust" camp for far too long. Yes, Reese gets credit for the two super bowls AND we can criticize for his failures after the last Super Bowl. I think most would agree that the 2007 Super Bowl team was better and the 2011 team had already started to decline. But yes 2011 was a still a magical season and I do give Reese credit for that. However, if you still want Reese as our GM, we can agree to disagree on that.
I am hopeful that that DG is going to makes the Giants strong at least in both trenches which at least makes us competitive and you a chance.
I think we'll see much higher upside though, but still in down years be alive in December. No more looking at the first series of a season knowing this team can't be competitive. We have seen two many of those for too long.
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I'm not claiming he built the team. But I find it hard to believe that any team goes 15-1 and plays for the super bowl with a below average GM.
Really? The Dave Gettleman Fan Club all think Jerry Reese is the dumbest man on the face of the earth and he was the GM for two actual title teams, not one team that lost the Super Bowl.
Uhh wasnt it Gettleman that also helped Acorsi and then Reese with those first few drafts and FA signings?
Solid