As the smoke is clearing and evaluations are solidifying it is becoming evident who the consensus top players of this draft are.
QBs: Murray and Haskins
Non QB: Q.Will, Allen and Bosa.
There is a more than a slight chance that many teams are aligned with this ranking, making it quite possible that those 2 QBs and those 3 non QB could go in the top 5.
If that is the case the Giants are in a bit of a pickle. For now it becomes , either you have to trade up and give up later draft picks to secure one in your top row or if not pick a guy from a lower tier. Remember the Ogden /Cedric Jones draft?
In the case we don't want to pay the price to trade up, the Giants better be confident they have a guy rated close enough to those top prospects. In other words, a guy perhaps a bit more unpolished, inconsistent and/or a tad higher bust potential but perhaps still has enough talent to have upside similar or equal to the top row of players.
The possible guys on the list:
1.Devin White (though jtgiants made it clear we like him alot but not at 6, which means he is on the second or third tier most likely) May not offer high pass rush potential and isnt overly instinctual which you want out of a LB you pick this high (Maybe have to hope Tampa picks him at 5 letting someone else drop to us)
2.Greedy Williams- some pretty good CBs in this draft but Greedy os the only one that has true shutdown cover corner potential. Man to man coverage that Bettcher loves so he can be creative with his blitz schemes.
3.Sweat- tested out of the gym and had a great Senior Bowl. But the pass rush moves still need development and is out of a smaller school. Though tremendous upside is obvious. Not as much a finished product like Q.Will, Bosa and Allen.
4. Lock- Smaller school QB with multiple OCs . Tremendous arm, tremendous. Better athlete than Haskins. But alot of rawness and inconsistency to his game despite that he started more years than Haskins did. Not as anticipatory and cerebral as Haskins. Upside though is there to be just as good as Haskins or even better (but he has much more to iron out).
5. Burns- excellent, bendy, explosive pass rusher. But smallish frame that he may have maxed out at 249 prior to Combine. Giants usually like these guys bigger in the top 10 if they are going to feature them in the pass rush.
Additional comments: I don't see any OTs with a value high enough demonstrating proven and consistent dominance both in run AND pass on tape to make a selection this high. At #17 sure (or even 10 or below) but not at 6.
Another option of course would be a trade down and pick up more picks (which I believe DG has bever done before).
Tampa may also love D. White and stay right there and take him.
Either option leaves the Giants with one of Bosa, Allen, Q-Will, Haskins or Murray.
Gary has a glaring lack of production relative to talent level. But you are correct there is tremendous upside there.
And though I like him alot , Wilkins is not quite that level of upside.
But there is certainly an argument that they could be included depending on your evaluation of them.
Tampa may also love D. White and stay right there and take him.
Either option leaves the Giants with one of Bosa, Allen, Q-Will, Haskins or Murray.
Raiders have Mayock now. Somehow I dont think theyll do something stupid.
JT said we like White but NOT at 6.
We are not good at smoke screens, I would bet he is the guy we want.
I'm not concerned about this at all.
Here is a video breaksdown that I agree mostly with his assessment. I think he is better than what Voch says but I do agree that he is not instinctual like a Luke Kuechley or Ulracher (who were both slightly lower picks). I do think he has higher blitz potential though.
We all form evaluations of players, some take the time to research each of these guys. Watching the games live, watching further video breakdown , reading reports of mutliple peopls take on the player and then coming up with your own evaluation. Some dont and just parrot opinion without searching it out themselves. You are certainly welcome to your own viewpoint on the matter.
White breakdown - ( New Window )
I don't think we go White or Sweat, and not heard anything different on Haskins so far.
2. Bosa, slightly lower ceiling
3. Allen, slightly lower ceiling and floor
In that order, derp analytics position value crowd be damned. I would throw in Hockenson as a blue chip TE.
Perhaps this is why Giants want to trade to #4 if rumor is true. Bucs at 5 could be left with Haskins or trade down.
I'm not concerned about this at all.
I have more confidence DG won’t pull a Reese and force a Flowers or Apple pick. We’ll get a very good football player.
I’m holding onto pie in the sky hope QWill drops.
Unless you ask someone else in the draft, of course. They would say it's the drop-off right before their pick. Funny how that works.
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about how the blue chippers will be gone right before we pick. Its usually nonsense. And there's always a surprise pick or two in the top 10.
I'm not concerned about this at all.
I have more confidence DG won’t pull a Reese and force a Flowers or Apple pick. We’ll get a very good football player.
I’m holding onto pie in the sky hope QWill drops.
DGs head would explode. He is the ultimate DG guy, so probably some truth to to trade up rumors.
I don't think we go White or Sweat, and not heard anything different on Haskins so far.
Haskins and Murray can both go and we still wouldnt get the top 3. I know you are high on Gary so that might not be so bad if Giants agree with you. I greatly worry about lack of elite production to match talent/measurables when you are picking in the top 8.
Jadaveon Clowney is a pretty good example. Hes become a pretty good player but not the elite sack guy his measurables had people believing he would be. Certainly not the ceiling youd want of a player pocked that high.
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and Wilkins to that list
Gary has a glaring lack of production relative to talent level. But you are correct there is tremendous upside there.
And though I like him alot , Wilkins is not quite that level of upside.
But there is certainly an argument that they could be included depending on your evaluation of them.
None of the guys are slam dunks, just need to be included. after the top shelf is gone a gamble in Gary or the appeal of the high character dependable Wilkins are possible
i wont be surprised if he goes at 5.
And I agree with who you have in your top row as far as non-QBs. On a strict grading scale, there are only 3 players in the top row. I don't have Murray and Haskins as elite prospects; I wouldn't have them with as high a grade as Quinnen Williams, Bosa, and Allen.
But I don't agree with who you have identified in the next row. The next row to me is Devin White, Ed Oliver, Jonah Williams, T.J. Hockenson, and Josh Jacobs.
I think Rashan Gary and Sweat are at the top of the next row, along with Jeffery Simmons, Christian Wilkins and some others.
I would devalue TE on our team, as well as Josh Jacobs, for obvious reasons. Simmons would be in the aforementioned row if he didn't tear his ACL and if he didn't have the character flag.
So to me the choices as we sit are Devin White, Jonah Williams, and Ed Oliver. And if you ask me on different days, I'm going to give you a different answer. Earlier this week I was sold on Devin White. Then I thought getting that elite OT in the building to solidify the OL and serve as the future franchise LT is too important. Then I thought Ed Oliver is so disruptive on defense and really could be so much of a value add at the 5-tech and as a pass rusher and a run stopper.
I just don't understand how so many don't see it with Jonah Williams, though. He is a stud.
The possible idea there on Lock is we aren't considering him at 6 and he is likely to be gone between 7 and 16 and/or we are not terribly high on him in general.
While Grier could be had later if we strike out on Haskins.
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are their usual unpredictable selves and that Haskins and/or White goes before us, leaving a prime player at #6.
I don't think we go White or Sweat, and not heard anything different on Haskins so far.
Haskins and Murray can both go and we still wouldnt get the top 3. I know you are high on Gary so that might not be so bad if Giants agree with you. I greatly worry about lack of elite production to match talent/measurables when you are picking in the top 8.
Jadaveon Clowney is a pretty good example. Hes become a pretty good player but not the elite sack guy his measurables had people believing he would be. Certainly not the ceiling youd want of a player pocked that high.
Not too concerned about "top 3", even those guys have warts this year. While there is considerable defensive talent at the top of this draft, I'm seeing a lot of blue chip among them. But, there will be a good defensive prospect (strong red chip) or two for us at #6.
And I agree with who you have in your top row as far as non-QBs. On a strict grading scale, there are only 3 players in the top row. I don't have Murray and Haskins as elite prospects; I wouldn't have them with as high a grade as Quinnen Williams, Bosa, and Allen.
But I don't agree with who you have identified in the next row. The next row to me is Devin White, Ed Oliver, Jonah Williams, T.J. Hockenson, and Josh Jacobs.
I think Rashan Gary and Sweat are at the top of the next row, along with Jeffery Simmons, Christian Wilkins and some others.
I would devalue TE on our team, as well as Josh Jacobs, for obvious reasons. Simmons would be in the aforementioned row if he didn't tear his ACL and if he didn't have the character flag.
So to me the choices as we sit are Devin White, Jonah Williams, and Ed Oliver. And if you ask me on different days, I'm going to give you a different answer. Earlier this week I was sold on Devin White. Then I thought getting that elite OT in the building to solidify the OL and serve as the future franchise LT is too important. Then I thought Ed Oliver is so disruptive on defense and really could be so much of a value add at the 5-tech and as a pass rusher and a run stopper.
I just don't understand how so many don't see it with Jonah Williams, though. He is a stud.
I agree there are no blue chip QBs but last year there werent either. But as you know, the B+ QBs get drafted as high as the A-/A prospects. With that said we have 5 that make the top row including the two non blue chip QBs.
Allstar Itotally agree with you on Jonah , LOVE the kid. The technique is black belt like. If we didnt have Solder and so many other needs he'd be there in my grouping. But one thing this kid is not is a mauler. I think with Barkley and a run first identity, DG wants a guy that could potentially maul in the run game at RT.
Should have clarified as not the powerhouse schools of the others. But to your point they play against top competition.
Your biases tremendously cloud your judgment.
Bettcher favors superior man to man cover guys at CB with the level of blitzing he likes to execute and he is the best one in the draft by far.
I'm not seeing the great value relative to scheme if they're running mostly 3-4 looks. Cap space better spent at ER, imo. But, I too really like the talent of the prospect.
We apparently won't take White at #6. I'd also be surprised if we take Sweat. He projects best to a 4-3 DE, and with his frame will have difficulty against the run in a 3-4. His heart condition might also cause lingering concerns, at least at #6.
If Haskins or Lock are still on the board and we don't want either, I hope we try and trade down to get extra draft assets for 2020.
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The other thing is, with Oakland there, they are liable to do something crazy at number 4 that might shake up the entire draft board, like, for example, taking DK Metcalf there.
Tampa may also love D. White and stay right there and take him.
Either option leaves the Giants with one of Bosa, Allen, Q-Will, Haskins or Murray.
Raiders have Mayock now. Somehow I dont think theyll do something stupid.
JT said we like White but NOT at 6.
Al's dead.. they will not do a crazy pick anymore
Every single team knows the Giants REALLY like Haskins and want him. And none of the other teams seem that excited or interested in him.
The key thing is that Haskins is not a Gruden guy. So Mayock is unlikely to lobby for drafting him.
I'd be fine with Oliver at #6.
Every single team knows the Giants REALLY like Haskins and want him. And none of the other teams seem that excited or interested in him.
The key thing is that Haskins is not a Gruden guy. So Mayock is unlikely to lobby for drafting him.
The biases run much deeper than that BBC
Yes I agree... I mean I have Devin White, Greedy Williams, Jonah Williams, Montez Sweat, etc all ranked so close, but you can find others like them at 17, but you can't find another Ed Oliver.
I'm not concerned about this at all.
Some folks take the concept of "averages" too literally.
There is no reason to expect that the NYG ranking of players coincides with the "consensus".
Or that "draft gurus" are somehow more knowledgeable than team scouts.
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is the perfect LDE for us and my clear #6.
Yes I agree... I mean I have Devin White, Greedy Williams, Jonah Williams, Montez Sweat, etc all ranked so close, but you can find others like them at 17, but you can't find another Ed Oliver.
I think Greedys value transcends the others on the list because of what a shutdown corners value is to a system designed for heavy blitzing from all levels.