I'm not much of a college football guru, but in the light following I've been doing w/r/t the draft and the noise about the Giants drafting Haskins at 6, I had some questions maybe some more enlightened on this site could answer.
Is it correct that Haskins has only played 1 or 2 full seasons at OSU? Yes he had a tremendous campaign last year, but I'd be more curious to see him over a couple years - with more tape on him and defenses better able to game plan for him, I'd be very curious to see another campaign.
He came out of Bullis. I went to Bullis. It's a small school, playing relatively smaller other schools (Gtown Prep, Landon, etc). I'm impressed at what he did there, but maybe not as impressed as someone who would have come out of a larger public high school playing known area powerhouses.
This trend of guys coming out of college after limited(ish) experience is growing. By all accounts, he is a great guy who has played well in 2018 and has great attributes and interviews. But has he really had the chance to gain the experience necessary to mature mentally and overcome adversity on the field?
I think he has the potential to be an outstanding NFL player; but is he ready to be a #6 pick overall?
Thoughts?
You can see that either he is the ultimate Giants QB or he is an incomplete and easily rattled QB that had such a great season only because:
1.) Urban Meyers tailored a perfect offense for him
2.) Never was under any pressure and had time for lunch every play
3.) His receivers were so good, that they were uncoverable and open every play
yet he is slower than offensive lineman, has bad feet and folds under pressure
Yes he has only played 1 full season at OSU - 13 or 14 games.
This is a stupid assessment. You realize even if he sat for three years he’d still be the same age as Eli when he started in the league???
Nice... he would go #1, but there would be concerns much like Haskins about only starting one year.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next.
Link - ( New Window )
He's nothing like RG3.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
My concern is that of just not having enough sample size and repeatable success. For example, in RGIIIs rookie year he lit things up, but once there was a sizable amount of intel on him, well you know the rest of the story. With Haskins, I'm very curious to see how another year would go. Another year of physical and mental development could tell a whole lot more than the small amont of info we have now.
so stupid
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Why is that relevant? He redshirted his first year, so he wasn't going to play. He backed up a four year starter in his second year, and he started in his third year. And he's much more of a pocket passer than Urban Meyer usually has.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
My concern is that of just not having enough sample size and repeatable success. For example, in RGIIIs rookie year he lit things up, but once there was a sizable amount of intel on him, well you know the rest of the story. With Haskins, I'm very curious to see how another year would go. Another year of physical and mental development could tell a whole lot more than the small amont of info we have now.
I felt RG3 probably was he couldn't keep running the same style he started with because he was getting hurt. He isn't a pocket passer at all. He is a RPO college QB. Once he had to stay in the pocket to stay healthy that isn't his game. His game is having the threat of the run and then hit a pass.
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Why is that relevant? He redshirted his first year, so he wasn't going to play. He backed up a four year starter in his second year, and he started in his third year. And he's much more of a pocket passer than Urban Meyer usually has.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
My concern is that of just not having enough sample size and repeatable success. For example, in RGIIIs rookie year he lit things up, but once there was a sizable amount of intel on him, well you know the rest of the story. With Haskins, I'm very curious to see how another year would go. Another year of physical and mental development could tell a whole lot more than the small amont of info we have now.
One year of starting experience at Ohio State is enough to assess his ability at the next level.
RG3 wasn't a pocket passer, and Haskins is. RG3 wasn't cut out to be a NFL QB b/c of what's between his ears. That's not true of Haskins.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
But I thought Haskins wasn't good under pressure and wasn't mobile?
Having that be a hard set rule is foolish. If he stayed and duplicated his 2018 campaign you can argue he'd be the #1 pick in 2020.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
What's funny is in the 3rd play he picks up a massive gain on the ground, haha. He also shows beautiful touch and accuracy on the run.
But he's sloppy, so there's that.
A) The entire OSU offense is predicated on shallow crossing routes
B) There always seems to be someone running wide open underneath (Haskins excels at hitting them in stride, but still...)
C) A one Mr. Odell Beckham might be the best person in the world to run those routes?
If you're gonna use 6 on Haskins, would have been nice to have Odell fielding those passes in stride, is all.
So yeah, maybe something to look out for but that's very much a part of today's NFL because those routes require timing and accuracy. So wouldn't that be a good thing?
2. Playing style - everyone is agreed that he's a conventional pocket passer. Is that the right fit for the offense the Giants run? Is that the right fit for the modern NFL? Is there a top tier pure pocket passer in the NFL under the age of 35?
3. Body type - he looked winded 10 minutes into his workout yesterday. How is he going to perform in the fourth quarter? If he sustains a lower leg injury that keeps him on the shelf for a month or two is his conditioning going to fall off a cliff?
Everything in the NFL is so much faster than it is in college. I don't see a guy who's game is going to adapt well to that uptick in speed. The throwing ability is there, but that's only part of playing the position. I think this guy was born 20-30 years too late...he looks like he should have been playing in the '80s.
2. Only started one season in college
3. Some mechanical flaws on his deep ball; but they seem correctable
1 & 2 are worries, but no fault of his own. But then he has some very positive attributes:
1. Very accurate passer
2. Very football smart
3. Reads D's far better than you would expect from a one year starter
4. Great character
5. Wants to be a Giant
It will come down to what DG/PS think.
^^This.
Anyone fan who is arrogant enough to think they have more in depth analysis and insight than the Giants on any QB (or player) is somewhat delusional (and therefore impossible to debate).
I personally like Murray (Look what he did in his HS Texas State champ. game as a Soph - pretty incredible).
But if the Giants think Haskins is the guy and take him, I am sure not going to be butt hurt over it as many of the Darnold lovers from last year were... lol.
I'll support the pick until such time as they prove my support is unwarranted (Ereck Flowers etc).
The winded thing is hard to gauge. Was he ever winded at OSU? There's so many damn breaks in an NFL game that you can argue the pace of the college game is faster. He also didn't just throw yesterday, he was already working out and sweating prior to throwing. I think too much is being made of it, if he was that gassed he wouldn't produce in any offense, not even OSU.
I think there's things to be worried about, but most of them seem correctable.
You can see that either he is the ultimate Giants QB or he is an incomplete and easily rattled QB that had such a great season only because:
1.) Urban Meyers tailored a perfect offense for him
2.) Never was under any pressure and had time for lunch every play
3.) His receivers were so good, that they were uncoverable and open every play
yet he is slower than offensive lineman, has bad feet and folds under pressure
Yes he has only played 1 full season at OSU - 13 or 14 games.
"i do live in a trailer with my mom....
got jumped by all 6 of you chumps..."
As for being winded at Ohio State, I don't know the answer to that. But it stood out to me yesterday that he just looked out of shape. The nightmare that keeps playing in my head is McNabb (who was known to put the pounds on) dragging ass in the Super Bowl in the two minute drill. Besides, conditioning matters if you're a QB...I remember hearing that Parcells told Peyton Manning as he got older to do a lot of leg work in the gym, as that would be the first thing to deteriorate and impact his passing ability.
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Anyone on this site stating definitively one way or the other is just throwing shit against the wall.
Which can be an oddly satisfying thing to do.
I would encourage everyone to try it at least once.
Footwork concerns are fine and fair to cite. Same with lack of experience. You can find flaws - they aren't invisible or non-existent.
But, most of them seem coachable or like things he'll improve upon with experience.
The improvement he showed in-season and his progression was impressive. I think that's something you can hitch your wagon to - he's going to put in the work and he's going to get better.
I don't think the pure pocket passer will ever be a guy you can't win with in the NFL. Those guys will always have a place in this league.
Haskins isn't going to wow anyone with his legs, but I think a lot of people think he's going to be exactly what Eli is now - at age 38 - which just isn't true or accurate.
Eli literally just falls down when a rusher comes free now. He knows he's not going anywhere or getting away. Why even get walloped? Not his fault, guy is almost 40 years old and never had great quicks to begin with. It happens.
It's not like that with Haskins.
He actually doesn't take many sacks. He seems good at sensing when he needs to get rid of the football - but he also protects it. He really didn't turn it over much at all or make many bad reads.
As for being winded at Ohio State, I don't know the answer to that. But it stood out to me yesterday that he just looked out of shape. The nightmare that keeps playing in my head is McNabb (who was known to put the pounds on) dragging ass in the Super Bowl in the two minute drill. Besides, conditioning matters if you're a QB...I remember hearing that Parcells told Peyton Manning as he got older to do a lot of leg work in the gym, as that would be the first thing to deteriorate and impact his passing ability.
Well, considering that there's red flags with just about every college QB prospect i'm not sure what to say to your initial point.
I haven't heard anyone worried about Haskins' energy or lack of cardio. He absolutely needs to work at it and make sure he's in great shape at the pro level, but unless he's got some medical issue I'm not privy to, I can assume that he will put in the time needed to make sure he can handle 60 minutes of pro football.
As for being winded at Ohio State, I don't know the answer to that. But it stood out to me yesterday that he just looked out of shape. The nightmare that keeps playing in my head is McNabb (who was known to put the pounds on) dragging ass in the Super Bowl in the two minute drill. Besides, conditioning matters if you're a QB...I remember hearing that Parcells told Peyton Manning as he got older to do a lot of leg work in the gym, as that would be the first thing to deteriorate and impact his passing ability.
You obviously didn’t read through this thread because it was stated above he was working out prior to throwing, not just standing around with a thumb up his ass. I’ll a hard worker any day of the week.
Why risk going back and possibly getting injured when you know you’re already gonna be atleast a top 10 pick in the draft? That makes absolutely no sense. He doesn’t need to chance another year, he had a pretty spectacular one that includes breaking Drew Brees records, all in one year. He’s gonna sit this year anyway, so he’ll be learning and getting his body right, since that’s what seems to be the concern on everyone’s mind, mind you Big Ben was fatter than he is at that point and he got bigger. The kid can play, he’s mobile enough, smart, accurate and a leader.
In comment 14351518 Thegratefulhead said:
2. Playing style - everyone is agreed that he's a conventional pocket passer. Is that the right fit for the offense the Giants run? Is that the right fit for the modern NFL? Is there a top tier pure pocket passer in the NFL under the age of 35?
3. Body type - he looked winded 10 minutes into his workout yesterday. How is he going to perform in the fourth quarter? If he sustains a lower leg injury that keeps him on the shelf for a month or two is his conditioning going to fall off a cliff?
Everything in the NFL is so much faster than it is in college. I don't see a guy who's game is going to adapt well to that uptick in speed. The throwing ability is there, but that's only part of playing the position. I think this guy was born 20-30 years too late...he looks like he should have been playing in the '80s.
On 1 - I disagree. Think his footwork could improve but wouldn't say it's bad.
On 2 - Think he can slide in the pocket and escape pressure.
On 3 - It's not as if Ohio State ran a slow paced offense. And he never seemed winded during those drives. Much of this criticism about how he looks seems driven by this idea that a QB has to be a perfect looking athlete. I could care less if he's lean.
It's remarkable how unabashed some people are about their racism.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
Put simply, it's relevant because he's been less tested and is less experienced, and has not had team get more than one shot at him.
There is a school of thought from Parcells or someone that says never take a QB in first round or in top 10 (I can't remember off hand) that has fewer than X starts. While I can't say I agree with most of the Parcells draft playbook this facet of it speaks well to the issue of 1 year QB's.
It's highly relevant. It may just not be dispositive.
I think his lack of experience is a "concern" but certainly not something that makes me remove him from my board. You have to really like what you saw, see how he improved week to week, and really do your homework.
Some of you want a ready made can’t miss NFL quarterback and won’t be an advocate of drafting one until that guy is a available, good luck.
I wouldn't be - if any of this was an actual game day issue, we would have heard about it.
I haven't seen a single thing that says his conditioning will be a concern at the next level. This is a narrative that has to form on the football field on game days - not during a pro day. It's not a natural game environment.
If people are worried about this guy becoming the next Jamarcus Russell and ballooning up, etc, don't - Haskins is not that guy.
Some of you want a ready made can’t miss NFL quarterback and won’t be an advocate of drafting one until that guy is a available, good luck.
For me I'd like to see how he or any QB does when he plays a team for the 2nd time. Once a staff has played against a guy they have a better idea of how to attack him and conversely I'd like to see what adjustments the QB makes as well.
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Many seasons a guy has played in college
Some of you want a ready made can’t miss NFL quarterback and won’t be an advocate of drafting one until that guy is a available, good luck.
For me I'd like to see how he or any QB does when he plays a team for the 2nd time. Once a staff has played against a guy they have a better idea of how to attack him and conversely I'd like to see what adjustments the QB makes as well.
You mean like Michigan? He played them in 2017, see my post above.
3. Body type - he looked winded 10 minutes into his workout yesterday. How is he going to perform in the fourth quarter? If he sustains a lower leg injury that keeps him on the shelf for a month or two is his conditioning going to fall off a cliff?
I was tracking the workout live yesterday on Haskins thread. And he was gassed. It was obvious. Even the NFLN crew made it a point.
In contrast, Lock threw today and he looked like he could throw for another two hours. Same for Grier at his workout.
Haskins was clearly out of shape at the Combine. He looked soft. Even he admitted his weight was high. My theory is Team Haskins got the feedback that he needed to get better for the Pro Day. So Haskins cut of weight fast. And when you do that you can get fatigued quickly and start to crash.
Not sure if it's a red flag, but I think he definitely needs to firm up and maintain his fitness.
That’s my point as well. Add in how often there are breaks in the NFL compared to college and I couldn’t be any less concerned about this.
Timeouts, TV timeouts, 15/20 penalties per game, two minute warnings, and 5-10 play reviews per game will give him more breathers than he’ll know what to do with.
Nope. This was not a talking point until yesterday.
When people want to find holes, they'll find them - even if they have to exaggerate them or create them.
I can't recall reading one single evaluation that mentioned his conditioning as a potential problem area or any question regarding his ability to finish games strong.
It's funny - if you try to credit a guy for a good pro day showing, you're greeted with a chorus of "it's a pro day... who cares? Its meaningless and everyone looks good throwing against air.."
But, when we can draw something bad from it.... well, now it means something!
Pro days really don't simulate game environments well at all. Guys throw more than an entire games' worth of passes in about 15 minutes. This doesn't happen on Sundays and this is going to matter even less for a guy like Haskins who will be a traditional dropback . passer.
We all found amusement in Eli's beach body picture from years ago, and none of us cared because we already knew what Eli had accomplished. Haskins not looking like a Greek God is apparently raising the ol' antennae, though.
It is what it is. He's got his concerns for sure, but I can't get myself to believe this is a real one. Wasn't he working out before he threw, too?
They mebtioned during broadcast and the guy said it to nitpick by as his own admission. It's a non issue.
Someone today tried to say that Haskins was "soaked" before he started to throw and was sweating all along.
Total bullsh-t. Haskins's shirt was dry when he started and then sweat starting pouting through - around his neck, his chest, the arms...And that's when he started to grab his hips, bend over, put his arms on his receivers, etc.
Gassed.
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I can't recall a QB looking that physically taxed at his workout.
Someone today tried to say that Haskins was "soaked" before he started to throw and was sweating all along.
Total bullsh-t. Haskins's shirt was dry when he started and then sweat starting pouting through - around his neck, his chest, the arms...And that's when he started to grab his hips, bend over, put his arms on his receivers, etc.
Gassed.
Go watch it. The video posted in yesterday’s thread shows the back of his shirt already wet with sweat. Then he does his 50 throws in 20 minutes, by the end he’s clearly sweating more in the front. Tired? Sure. But he absolutely didn’t just throw yesterday.
But once you pounce on a narrative you don’t let up for anything. So I don’t expect you to agree with me at all.
Once he's got his narrative, he won't let go.
First it was Haskins' "ClubMed" pocket where he never faced a lick of pressure and had 20 seconds to deliver each of his passes, now it's the whole "gassed" out of shape thing where we're now painting this picture like the guy could barely finish the workout and was down on one knee because he couldn't catch his breath.
Go watch it. The video posted in yesterday’s thread shows the back of his shirt already wet with sweat. Then he does his 50 throws in 20 minutes, by the end he’s clearly sweating more in the front. Tired? Sure. But he absolutely didn’t just throw yesterday.
But once you pounce on a narrative you don’t let up for anything. So I don’t expect you to agree with me at all.
I do disagree. But I don't think a major factor. My concerns still center on his actual play at OSU.
For me, it's really a matter of placement. I just don't see Haskins as a top pick.
Haskins being out of shape isn't a narrative. It's the truth, and he's even backed that up himself.
If you want a narrative, implying that conditioning isn't critical for an NFL quarterback is a doozy of a narrative.
If anything, the Pro day performance strengthened my opinion of Haskins in showing the conditioning questions from the combine were overblown. Much like when Darnold threw in the rain last year.
I like the theory posted earlier by bw (I think?) that he let himself gain weight following the season. Didn't he weigh 231 at the combine but said he played at 221? Putting on 9 pounds of flab in a couple of months is much more of a concern to me than sweating at the pro day.
It's still not enough of a concern to drop him off the board though. You have to figure the Giants dieticians will help him get right. Lots of good athletes coming out need to transform their bodies entering the NFL and we know how a strength & conditioning program can help guys.
Also, at his age I also gained a lot of weight quickly. I'd always been fit and then my wife got pregnant and our whole diet was thrown out of wack for a time. Not having ever dealt with extra weight I didn't even realize what was happening to me until the weight was already on. Wouldn't be surprised if Haskins was the same way - didn't take his diet & conditioning seriously because he'd never had to. He'll do much better under the watch and care of the training staff.
Haskins being out of shape isn't a narrative. It's the truth, and he's even backed that up himself.
If you want a narrative, implying that conditioning isn't critical for an NFL quarterback is a doozy of a narrative.
Again, show me someone - anyone who thought this was a problem on Saturdays at any point during the football season.
I'll wait.
Again, show me someone - anyone who thought this was a problem on Saturdays at any point during the football season.
I'll wait.
Well, hard to get tired at the ClubMed Horseshoe. ;)
Looking like he chases dinner with a six pack of Iron City Beer doesn't seem to have impacted Ben Roethlisberger's career.
No one's saying the guy is going to keel over and die on the field, but fatigue can impact footwork (already an issue for him), technique, timing, and accuracy. We're talking about a pocket passer here... If that stuff starts to go in the fourth quarter or in December, it could impact his game dramatically.
I'd be surprised if they pick him.
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In comment 14351920 joeinpa said:
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Many seasons a guy has played in college
Some of you want a ready made can’t miss NFL quarterback and won’t be an advocate of drafting one until that guy is a available, good luck.
For me I'd like to see how he or any QB does when he plays a team for the 2nd time. Once a staff has played against a guy they have a better idea of how to attack him and conversely I'd like to see what adjustments the QB makes as well.
You mean like Michigan? He played them in 2017, see my post above.
Yeah, that's one in his favor. I still would like to see more than just one and should've been clearer in my post and not just limit it to playing one team twice.
That's not a knock on him though and he clearly did well when playing UM the second time, it's just I'd like to see more of him or any QB for that matter playing teams again. I'm a big believer in experience especially at QB and while it's not a deal breaker for me, it's definitely something I'd really like to have when drafting one.
No one's saying the guy is going to keel over and die on the field, but fatigue can impact footwork (already an issue for him), technique, timing, and accuracy. We're talking about a pocket passer here... If that stuff starts to go in the fourth quarter or in December, it could impact his game dramatically.
I'd be surprised if they pick him.
Right, but none of this stuff came up at any point during the season. Literally zero questions regarding his conditioning that I had seen until this became a "thing" yesterday - during a pro day.
If this was a topic during his actual playing time @ OSU, I'd give it more attention. But I really can't find anything from before yesterday that cited it as something anyone was even remotely worried about.
It feels like something being manufactured here by people who just don't want the Giants to draft him more than anything else.
Are you going to hold the same strikes against Tua because he plays for Alabama and they beat up on a lot of inferior competition? It's not Haskins' fault he dominated in the Big 10.
Michigan's defense was legit and Haskins shredded the shit out of them.
Everyone loves Murray and he played in a conference where basically no one even plays defense at all. Mayfield came from the same program... he seemed to do quite well as a rookie.
The competition points seem to only come up when convenient. I don't think he could possibly have done more than 50 TD's and 70%+ in his first year.
Maybe we won't take him. I have no idea what the Giants will do.
I'm good with it if they take him @ 6, but I'm not going to give up on the entire season or throw a fit if they don't.
He self-corrected, but it certainly looked like is crammed for a test to get there.
So maybe it's a one-off moment, and this will be nothing and vanish. But it's worth discussing why one of the seemingly top players in the draft got lazy and lost his focus...
I say this as someone who likes Haskins and wouldn't be disappointed if we got him. As someone else said, if he went back to school and put up another huge year he'd be the #1 overall pick next year and draw comparisons to Brees. So there's upside that comes with the risk and I trust that Gettleman/Shurmur aren't going to force a pick here. That's why it's good that we still have Eli around, but that's another story.
I actually think Murray is the riskier prospect, though his athleticism has more upside I suppose. But he was thoroughly overmatched in that Alabama game. And the Mayfield comp doesn't fully hold up for me because Mayfield started 40 games over 3 years, put up consistent numbers, and didn't rely nearly as much on his legs. He played great on the big stage his last year. And he was still far from a sure thing. Most people thought Darnold was going #1 up until the day of the draft. Murray has a ton of ability but also a ton of risk. More athletic than Mayfield sure. But more athletic very rarely translates meaningfully into being a great QB.
Let’s just stay the course,,,
But as I said before, I don't necessarily dislike Haskins. I have a feeling we aren't picking either of these two but I don't stress over who the Giants pick. I root for the pick and the player as long as they are a Giant or until they prove they don't deserve it.
Let’s just stay the course,,,
Oh geezus will you stop... lol
just my honest opinion
Very similar numbers here, too...
We can also ignore the part where Haskins' football IQ trumps Winston's by a mile, the part where he has a better arm, is more accurate, throws far less picks, and has a much better character.
What historical data shows is that QB's with less than 18 starts, compared to similarly ranked peers perform worse than them the vast majority of the time. They also have a much higher failure rate in the NFL
There have been notable examples who have bucked this trend, but it really should serve as a way to put more scrutiny behind the pick.
It isn't an end-all.be-all - it is just a red flag that needs to be acknowledged
What historical data shows is that QB's with less than 18 starts, compared to similarly ranked peers perform worse than them the vast majority of the time. They also have a much higher failure rate in the NFL
There have been notable examples who have bucked this trend, but it really should serve as a way to put more scrutiny behind the pick.
It isn't an end-all.be-all - it is just a red flag that needs to be acknowledged
I think that's fair. There's certainly more volatility that comes with having a smaller sample size from which to draw analyses and conclusions, so I would expect that the bust risk is increased. What it's not, IMO, is an indicator that a player is more likely to bust, just that the risk that he might is greater, and that's perfectly logical when you think about it:
If a player has only one season of starting experience and it's mediocre, he's not going to get drafted anyway - he'll either go back to school (if he has eligibility remaining) or end up as a UDFA (or maybe a late round pick if his athletic potential might warrant a flyer). In either case, he's unlikely to be on fans' radar as a potential disappointment. He basically has nothing but upside relative to his draft value. But a player who has one great season and is drafted off of that, especially a QB, is likely to be a relatively high draft pick.
High draft picks in general carry with them a higher expectation, so it follows that there is more room along the spectrum where an otherwise solid player might be considered a disappointment relative to draft slot. Players with multiple seasons of experience at the college level give teams more opportunity to draft them in their proper range, so some of that upside/downside volatility is mitigated.
All of which is to say, it's naive to pretend that there isn't SOME additional risk with a player like Haskins or Murray who have less experience and less tape to evaluate. There's absolutely a chance that the one superb season was a flash in the pan. But that's where the rest of the player evaluation model becomes that much more important. How coachable is the player? What's his work ethic and football intellect like? Was his great season the culmination of a development trend that bore fruit when he finally got his opportunity, or is he a fortunate cog in an otherwise successful machine?
Those are incredibly important considerations, and we'll have to trust that if the Giants believe that Haskins (or Murray, or even Quinnen Williams, who also has only one great season of tape but not a QB) is the guy, then they're satisfied internally with their answers to those questions.
Haskins being out of shape isn't a narrative. It's the truth, and he's even backed that up himself.
If you want a narrative, implying that conditioning isn't critical for an NFL quarterback is a doozy of a narrative.
You seem to be completely unaware of the fact that you do the same damn thing that you accuse everyone else of; you grab should of anything that suits your chosen narrative.
You are no different. Get over yourself.
Especially if the QB is coming from a powerhouse where it is often difficult to tell if it is the player or the system (it also applies to small school guys too).
Are there really concerns every year about QB prospects as to if they are well-conditioned?
This almost seems to be a fabricated negative. Maybe even strike the almost part
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If you want a narrative, implying that conditioning isn't critical for an NFL quarterback is a doozy of a narrative.
Are there really concerns every year about QB prospects as to if they are well-conditioned?
This almost seems to be a fabricated negative. Maybe even strike the almost part
It usually doesn't come up because first round considerations at QB are rarely as chubby as Haskins. Actually, quarterback draft prospects in any round are rarely as chubby as he is.
So it begs the question, why did he enter the draft process chubby?
Of course, where GT goes, soon bw will appear.
I even saw a poster this morning say he's a "fat QB"
Weird takes, man.
I even saw a poster this morning say he's a "fat QB"
Weird takes, man.
He was heavy at the combine. He even said as much. It is a worry but you see him working now and clearly getting in shape and it doesn't bother me as much.
Of course, where GT goes, soon bw will appear.
I thought this thread was about concerns around Haskins.
Haskins is very likely and we would be lucky to have him. He is legit. To me Murray and Haskins are the only top QBs in this draft.
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I don't care that much, because we're not drafting him.
Haskins is very likely and we would be lucky to have him. He is legit. To me Murray and Haskins are the only top QBs in this draft.
Based on the chatter we've heard from jtgiants, JonC, and others, I don't see us taking a QB at 6. And if we do, I think Jones is more likely - and to be clear I don't want them to pick Jones either.
It just doesn't make sense if we're committed to Eli this year.
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In comment 14353012 Go Terps said:
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I don't care that much, because we're not drafting him.
Haskins is very likely and we would be lucky to have him. He is legit. To me Murray and Haskins are the only top QBs in this draft.
Based on the chatter we've heard from jtgiants, JonC, and others, I don't see us taking a QB at 6. And if we do, I think Jones is more likely - and to be clear I don't want them to pick Jones either.
It just doesn't make sense if we're committed to Eli this year.
That makes zero sense. DG said he wants to do the KC route of bringing in a QB and having him sit. The fact we aren't extending Eli should show we are going QB early in this draft and I would bet if Haskins is there we take him. I wouldn't be shocked with a trade up.
In fact I will say there is no way we can come out of this draft without a future QB. Next year who is our QB? If they wanted Eli he would be signed longer. That is the Giants way.
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get some examples of this?
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If you want a narrative, implying that conditioning isn't critical for an NFL quarterback is a doozy of a narrative.
Are there really concerns every year about QB prospects as to if they are well-conditioned?
This almost seems to be a fabricated negative. Maybe even strike the almost part
It usually doesn't come up because first round considerations at QB are rarely as chubby as Haskins. Actually, quarterback draft prospects in any round are rarely as chubby as he is.
So it begs the question, why did he enter the draft process chubby?
Here's another QB that people considered chubby at the combine: