I'm not much of a college football guru, but in the light following I've been doing w/r/t the draft and the noise about the Giants drafting Haskins at 6, I had some questions maybe some more enlightened on this site could answer.
Is it correct that Haskins has only played 1 or 2 full seasons at OSU? Yes he had a tremendous campaign last year, but I'd be more curious to see him over a couple years - with more tape on him and defenses better able to game plan for him, I'd be very curious to see another campaign.
He came out of Bullis. I went to Bullis. It's a small school, playing relatively smaller other schools (Gtown Prep, Landon, etc). I'm impressed at what he did there, but maybe not as impressed as someone who would have come out of a larger public high school playing known area powerhouses.
This trend of guys coming out of college after limited(ish) experience is growing. By all accounts, he is a great guy who has played well in 2018 and has great attributes and interviews. But has he really had the chance to gain the experience necessary to mature mentally and overcome adversity on the field?
I think he has the potential to be an outstanding NFL player; but is he ready to be a #6 pick overall?
Thoughts?
You can see that either he is the ultimate Giants QB or he is an incomplete and easily rattled QB that had such a great season only because:
1.) Urban Meyers tailored a perfect offense for him
2.) Never was under any pressure and had time for lunch every play
3.) His receivers were so good, that they were uncoverable and open every play
yet he is slower than offensive lineman, has bad feet and folds under pressure
Yes he has only played 1 full season at OSU - 13 or 14 games.
This is a stupid assessment. You realize even if he sat for three years he’d still be the same age as Eli when he started in the league???
Nice... he would go #1, but there would be concerns much like Haskins about only starting one year.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next.
Link - ( New Window )
He's nothing like RG3.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
My concern is that of just not having enough sample size and repeatable success. For example, in RGIIIs rookie year he lit things up, but once there was a sizable amount of intel on him, well you know the rest of the story. With Haskins, I'm very curious to see how another year would go. Another year of physical and mental development could tell a whole lot more than the small amont of info we have now.
so stupid
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Why is that relevant? He redshirted his first year, so he wasn't going to play. He backed up a four year starter in his second year, and he started in his third year. And he's much more of a pocket passer than Urban Meyer usually has.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
My concern is that of just not having enough sample size and repeatable success. For example, in RGIIIs rookie year he lit things up, but once there was a sizable amount of intel on him, well you know the rest of the story. With Haskins, I'm very curious to see how another year would go. Another year of physical and mental development could tell a whole lot more than the small amont of info we have now.
I felt RG3 probably was he couldn't keep running the same style he started with because he was getting hurt. He isn't a pocket passer at all. He is a RPO college QB. Once he had to stay in the pocket to stay healthy that isn't his game. His game is having the threat of the run and then hit a pass.
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Why is that relevant? He redshirted his first year, so he wasn't going to play. He backed up a four year starter in his second year, and he started in his third year. And he's much more of a pocket passer than Urban Meyer usually has.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
My concern is that of just not having enough sample size and repeatable success. For example, in RGIIIs rookie year he lit things up, but once there was a sizable amount of intel on him, well you know the rest of the story. With Haskins, I'm very curious to see how another year would go. Another year of physical and mental development could tell a whole lot more than the small amont of info we have now.
One year of starting experience at Ohio State is enough to assess his ability at the next level.
RG3 wasn't a pocket passer, and Haskins is. RG3 wasn't cut out to be a NFL QB b/c of what's between his ears. That's not true of Haskins.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
But I thought Haskins wasn't good under pressure and wasn't mobile?
Having that be a hard set rule is foolish. If he stayed and duplicated his 2018 campaign you can argue he'd be the #1 pick in 2020.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
What's funny is in the 3rd play he picks up a massive gain on the ground, haha. He also shows beautiful touch and accuracy on the run.
But he's sloppy, so there's that.
A) The entire OSU offense is predicated on shallow crossing routes
B) There always seems to be someone running wide open underneath (Haskins excels at hitting them in stride, but still...)
C) A one Mr. Odell Beckham might be the best person in the world to run those routes?
If you're gonna use 6 on Haskins, would have been nice to have Odell fielding those passes in stride, is all.
So yeah, maybe something to look out for but that's very much a part of today's NFL because those routes require timing and accuracy. So wouldn't that be a good thing?
2. Playing style - everyone is agreed that he's a conventional pocket passer. Is that the right fit for the offense the Giants run? Is that the right fit for the modern NFL? Is there a top tier pure pocket passer in the NFL under the age of 35?
3. Body type - he looked winded 10 minutes into his workout yesterday. How is he going to perform in the fourth quarter? If he sustains a lower leg injury that keeps him on the shelf for a month or two is his conditioning going to fall off a cliff?
Everything in the NFL is so much faster than it is in college. I don't see a guy who's game is going to adapt well to that uptick in speed. The throwing ability is there, but that's only part of playing the position. I think this guy was born 20-30 years too late...he looks like he should have been playing in the '80s.
2. Only started one season in college
3. Some mechanical flaws on his deep ball; but they seem correctable
1 & 2 are worries, but no fault of his own. But then he has some very positive attributes:
1. Very accurate passer
2. Very football smart
3. Reads D's far better than you would expect from a one year starter
4. Great character
5. Wants to be a Giant
It will come down to what DG/PS think.
^^This.
Anyone fan who is arrogant enough to think they have more in depth analysis and insight than the Giants on any QB (or player) is somewhat delusional (and therefore impossible to debate).
I personally like Murray (Look what he did in his HS Texas State champ. game as a Soph - pretty incredible).
But if the Giants think Haskins is the guy and take him, I am sure not going to be butt hurt over it as many of the Darnold lovers from last year were... lol.
I'll support the pick until such time as they prove my support is unwarranted (Ereck Flowers etc).
The winded thing is hard to gauge. Was he ever winded at OSU? There's so many damn breaks in an NFL game that you can argue the pace of the college game is faster. He also didn't just throw yesterday, he was already working out and sweating prior to throwing. I think too much is being made of it, if he was that gassed he wouldn't produce in any offense, not even OSU.
I think there's things to be worried about, but most of them seem correctable.
You can see that either he is the ultimate Giants QB or he is an incomplete and easily rattled QB that had such a great season only because:
1.) Urban Meyers tailored a perfect offense for him
2.) Never was under any pressure and had time for lunch every play
3.) His receivers were so good, that they were uncoverable and open every play
yet he is slower than offensive lineman, has bad feet and folds under pressure
Yes he has only played 1 full season at OSU - 13 or 14 games.
"i do live in a trailer with my mom....
got jumped by all 6 of you chumps..."
As for being winded at Ohio State, I don't know the answer to that. But it stood out to me yesterday that he just looked out of shape. The nightmare that keeps playing in my head is McNabb (who was known to put the pounds on) dragging ass in the Super Bowl in the two minute drill. Besides, conditioning matters if you're a QB...I remember hearing that Parcells told Peyton Manning as he got older to do a lot of leg work in the gym, as that would be the first thing to deteriorate and impact his passing ability.
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Anyone on this site stating definitively one way or the other is just throwing shit against the wall.
Which can be an oddly satisfying thing to do.
I would encourage everyone to try it at least once.
Footwork concerns are fine and fair to cite. Same with lack of experience. You can find flaws - they aren't invisible or non-existent.
But, most of them seem coachable or like things he'll improve upon with experience.
The improvement he showed in-season and his progression was impressive. I think that's something you can hitch your wagon to - he's going to put in the work and he's going to get better.
I don't think the pure pocket passer will ever be a guy you can't win with in the NFL. Those guys will always have a place in this league.
Haskins isn't going to wow anyone with his legs, but I think a lot of people think he's going to be exactly what Eli is now - at age 38 - which just isn't true or accurate.
Eli literally just falls down when a rusher comes free now. He knows he's not going anywhere or getting away. Why even get walloped? Not his fault, guy is almost 40 years old and never had great quicks to begin with. It happens.
It's not like that with Haskins.
He actually doesn't take many sacks. He seems good at sensing when he needs to get rid of the football - but he also protects it. He really didn't turn it over much at all or make many bad reads.
As for being winded at Ohio State, I don't know the answer to that. But it stood out to me yesterday that he just looked out of shape. The nightmare that keeps playing in my head is McNabb (who was known to put the pounds on) dragging ass in the Super Bowl in the two minute drill. Besides, conditioning matters if you're a QB...I remember hearing that Parcells told Peyton Manning as he got older to do a lot of leg work in the gym, as that would be the first thing to deteriorate and impact his passing ability.
Well, considering that there's red flags with just about every college QB prospect i'm not sure what to say to your initial point.
I haven't heard anyone worried about Haskins' energy or lack of cardio. He absolutely needs to work at it and make sure he's in great shape at the pro level, but unless he's got some medical issue I'm not privy to, I can assume that he will put in the time needed to make sure he can handle 60 minutes of pro football.
As for being winded at Ohio State, I don't know the answer to that. But it stood out to me yesterday that he just looked out of shape. The nightmare that keeps playing in my head is McNabb (who was known to put the pounds on) dragging ass in the Super Bowl in the two minute drill. Besides, conditioning matters if you're a QB...I remember hearing that Parcells told Peyton Manning as he got older to do a lot of leg work in the gym, as that would be the first thing to deteriorate and impact his passing ability.
You obviously didn’t read through this thread because it was stated above he was working out prior to throwing, not just standing around with a thumb up his ass. I’ll a hard worker any day of the week.
Why risk going back and possibly getting injured when you know you’re already gonna be atleast a top 10 pick in the draft? That makes absolutely no sense. He doesn’t need to chance another year, he had a pretty spectacular one that includes breaking Drew Brees records, all in one year. He’s gonna sit this year anyway, so he’ll be learning and getting his body right, since that’s what seems to be the concern on everyone’s mind, mind you Big Ben was fatter than he is at that point and he got bigger. The kid can play, he’s mobile enough, smart, accurate and a leader.
In comment 14351518 Thegratefulhead said:
2. Playing style - everyone is agreed that he's a conventional pocket passer. Is that the right fit for the offense the Giants run? Is that the right fit for the modern NFL? Is there a top tier pure pocket passer in the NFL under the age of 35?
3. Body type - he looked winded 10 minutes into his workout yesterday. How is he going to perform in the fourth quarter? If he sustains a lower leg injury that keeps him on the shelf for a month or two is his conditioning going to fall off a cliff?
Everything in the NFL is so much faster than it is in college. I don't see a guy who's game is going to adapt well to that uptick in speed. The throwing ability is there, but that's only part of playing the position. I think this guy was born 20-30 years too late...he looks like he should have been playing in the '80s.
On 1 - I disagree. Think his footwork could improve but wouldn't say it's bad.
On 2 - Think he can slide in the pocket and escape pressure.
On 3 - It's not as if Ohio State ran a slow paced offense. And he never seemed winded during those drives. Much of this criticism about how he looks seems driven by this idea that a QB has to be a perfect looking athlete. I could care less if he's lean.
It's remarkable how unabashed some people are about their racism.
In any event, his most impressive feat - which I've mentioned elsewhere on BBI - is what he did against Michigan in 2017, when he came off of the bench to replace Barrett. At the Big House, no less. Haskins came into the game w about six minutes left in third quarter with Ohio State trailing 14-20. Watch the highlights below to see what happened next. Link - ( New Window )
Put simply, it's relevant because he's been less tested and is less experienced, and has not had team get more than one shot at him.
There is a school of thought from Parcells or someone that says never take a QB in first round or in top 10 (I can't remember off hand) that has fewer than X starts. While I can't say I agree with most of the Parcells draft playbook this facet of it speaks well to the issue of 1 year QB's.
It's highly relevant. It may just not be dispositive.
I think his lack of experience is a "concern" but certainly not something that makes me remove him from my board. You have to really like what you saw, see how he improved week to week, and really do your homework.
Some of you want a ready made can’t miss NFL quarterback and won’t be an advocate of drafting one until that guy is a available, good luck.