I argued very much for Josh Rosen last year and I stand by my assessment of his talent. I do actually prefer Kyler Murray to him in this years draft but cost to acquire has to be considered and the simple fact is if Josh Rosen is available by trade this is a virtual no brainer.
The biggest risks on Rosen are injury concerns and attitude. Both of these are mitigated by the fact that his contract is so team friendly that he is cheaper than a 3rd string QB and is easily cuttable or trade able if he is a problem.
#1 - Josh Rosen has a 3 yr contract at an avg of just over 2 mil per season
#2- Rosen’s contract does come with a 4th year option that is equally affordable
#3- Rosen’s highest base salary is just 750K in his 4th year option which is less than the 900K base salary Alex Tanney currently has.
The obvious other benefit is that This deal allows the Giants to keep both first round draft picks and next years as well while seeing how Rosen fits in with Shurmur and the locker room and the opportunity to fix the defense.
I understand the asshats are saying no to Rosen and the fact the Giants do appear to be interested in Haskins at 6.
If Haskins were acquired at 6, his contract is still of good value but you also take on a much larger contract in case he didn’t work out as you have dead money of approx. 17 mil in year 2, 12 mil in year 3 and 7 mil in year 4 based on Josh Allen’s contract last year at 7.
This mitigates the “you throw away 5 years if you miss on a QB” risk.
Plus, Haskins could also require a trade up which would mean the 6 pick plus. Last year th Jets traded 3 second rounders to move from pick 6 to 3.
If the Giants don’t take QB at 6, they may go QB at 17 or 2nd round but these are players with what we think is less talent than Rosen as SY has him his highest graded QB since Luck.
IMO - Rosen’s contract makes him a “get out of jail free” card that allows Giants to mitigate the risk and move on from him if he has attitude problems or gets hurt frequently and just can’t cut as a QB.
It’s a risk they have to take if available.
Quote:
and DG has been dumping players who aren't good in the locker room.
Why do you think DG will suddenly go 180 degrees from his stated approach and take a guy who is against what DG is trying to build? It doesn't make any sense.
I'm not saying Rosen is bad, or that he can't be a winner. I'm just saying that Rosen isn't a DG type of player.
Can you find one article from his time in Arizona that speaks to this?
Not sure about Arizona but it was common knowledge coming into the draft. He’s out spoken and has maturity issues. Not sure if he’s matured much since then. It says a lot that Arizona is so willing to let him go already.
Trading for Rosen would seem to go against much of what DG has been doing in terms of locker room culture. The QB having these issues is not good. He won’t learn much in this regard from Eli either. You are who you are.
Josh Rosen tons of issues and a mess off field - ( New Window )
Im aware of your posts on the Giants interest in Rosen. Its in my post
I think they are wrong.
You would think this was an internet message board where people go to post their opinions or something?
He took an absolute beating this year behind the worst line in the NFL. No complaints, never left the game, never blamed anyone. In fact, he blamed himself one time for looking at the rush one time rather than looking down field before he was pummeled.
Beyond Larry Fitzgerald, he had one rookie and scrap heap of receivers. Never complained.
He's been publicly humiliated by a GM that says he's the QB, "for now" and hasn't said a word.
Look at his twitter account and see what causes he supported and how he was out in the community. He had lots of support from his teammates, and took a trip recently with Fitzgerald.
If you don't like his game, so be it. But criticizing him for attitude and off-the-field stuff is based on repeating a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors.
I want Haskins but there s much to get excited about with Rosen too.
I actually agree with you here...
Quote:
In comment 14351968 JohnB said:
Quote:
and DG has been dumping players who aren't good in the locker room.
Why do you think DG will suddenly go 180 degrees from his stated approach and take a guy who is against what DG is trying to build? It doesn't make any sense.
I'm not saying Rosen is bad, or that he can't be a winner. I'm just saying that Rosen isn't a DG type of player.
Can you find one article from his time in Arizona that speaks to this?
Not sure about Arizona but it was common knowledge coming into the draft. He’s out spoken and has maturity issues. Not sure if he’s matured much since then. It says a lot that Arizona is so willing to let him go already.
Trading for Rosen would seem to go against much of what DG has been doing in terms of locker room culture. The QB having these issues is not good. He won’t learn much in this regard from Eli either. You are who you are. Josh Rosen tons of issues and a mess off field - ( New Window )
Based on the cap hit, absolutely.
He took an absolute beating this year behind the worst line in the NFL. No complaints, never left the game, never blamed anyone. In fact, he blamed himself one time for looking at the rush one time rather than looking down field before he was pummeled.
Beyond Larry Fitzgerald, he had one rookie and scrap heap of receivers. Never complained.
He's been publicly humiliated by a GM that says he's the QB, "for now" and hasn't said a word.
Look at his twitter account and see what causes he supported and how he was out in the community. He had lots of support from his teammates, and took a trip recently with Fitzgerald.
If you don't like his game, so be it. But criticizing him for attitude and off-the-field stuff is based on repeating a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors.
This.. people don't know shit about his personality.. As far as the price goes its dirt cheap.. If he can be had for 17th pick, I'd do it..
And its over a new HC and system in a spot where he had a QB he recruited come available at 1
Rosen had to deal with an OC fired within weeks and a HC who was do bad he was dumped in a season
This is unique
His fault or not, he had a lousy year (and if they want Murray real bad); he might be a draft day steal - a 3rd round pick ?
And its over a new HC and system in a spot where he had a QB he recruited come available at 1
Rosen had to deal with an OC fired within weeks and a HC who was do bad he was dumped in a season
This is unique
absolutely unique and the giants should be all over it
For a reasonable price? Or do you mean unreasonable price. I don't see anyway they would want to start Murray's career with Rosen still on the roster.
Quote:
is an epidemic.
Im aware of your posts on the Giants interest in Rosen. Its in my post
I think they are wrong.
You would think this was an internet message board where people go to post their opinions or something?
You're free to shout at the clouds all you like, as I'm free to poke fun at you.
Lol
And its over a new HC and system in a spot where he had a QB he recruited come available at 1
Rosen had to deal with an OC fired within weeks and a HC who was do bad he was dumped in a season
This is unique
There are bad quarterbacks available every year. Nothing unprecedented about it at all. Only thing different in this situation is the team that invested resources in him is being smart enough to cut bait early and try to recoup some of their investment.
How do you feel about the nickname "In Perpetuity"?
There is nothing wrong with Rosen. But Kingsbury wants to change offenses and Murray is the guy to run that offense, Rosen is not a running QB. Rosen cannot run that offense so they'll want to get what they can for him.
Exactly gidie, the whole he doesn’t fit their scheme argument seems kind of weak if this guy is really as good as a lot of people thought he was last year. Most coaches would adjust their scheme to accommodate a strong talent. I mean if Kingsbury took the Colts job last year do you think he would dump Andrew Luck because he wasn’t mobile enough for his offense. Of course not.
Quote:
if the Cardinals are so hot to get rid of him after spending a first round pick on him a year ago -- why it's a no-brainer to take their reject for the sake of a second round pick?
Exactly gidie, the whole he doesn’t fit their scheme argument seems kind of weak if this guy is really as good as a lot of people thought he was last year. Most coaches would adjust their scheme to accommodate a strong talent. I mean if Kingsbury took the Colts job last year do you think he would dump Andrew Luck because he wasn’t mobile enough for his offense. Of course not.
Kingsbury has been hot after Murray ever since he tried recruiting him and he wants that type of QB to run the same offense he ran in college.
Quote:
if the Cardinals are so hot to get rid of him after spending a first round pick on him a year ago -- why it's a no-brainer to take their reject for the sake of a second round pick?
Exactly gidie, the whole he doesn’t fit their scheme argument seems kind of weak if this guy is really as good as a lot of people thought he was last year. Most coaches would adjust their scheme to accommodate a strong talent. I mean if Kingsbury took the Colts job last year do you think he would dump Andrew Luck because he wasn’t mobile enough for his offense. Of course not.
But you are making the assumption that a stable organization such as the Colts would hire a non-winning HC. The dysfunction of the Cards can't be emphasized enough. Keim was arrested and plead guilty for Extreme DUI. I don't even know what that is. He is lucky to still be employed. He knows it. So their OC was canned. Their first year HC was canned after 1 season. They had changed their long-standing defensive 3-4 to a 4-3 jettisoning the players that didn't fit the new system only to revert back to a 3-4 and will be churning the roster again as the 4-3 players won't fit their new/old system. Keim decides he wants a young Boy-Wonder as it is the flavor of coaching hires. Said Boy-Wonder has never won anything, but he gets an NFL gig. What makes anyone think he is capable to adjust a system to fit the entrenched players? He has his system and as luck would have it, Murray is the perfect player to run his system.
Did you happen to catch any games with Rosen this year? Statistically he was poor - so was Eli his first year - but he actually looked very good throwing the ball. Guy really is a text book throwing the ball.
making it personal -- as in you know better than anyone else -- that is also trolling
Let’s all respect each other’s opinions so no one has to get banned over stuff that we probably won’t even be taking about in a month or so from now.
Quote:
In comment 14352232 gidiefor said:
Quote:
if the Cardinals are so hot to get rid of him after spending a first round pick on him a year ago -- why it's a no-brainer to take their reject for the sake of a second round pick?
Exactly gidie, the whole he doesn’t fit their scheme argument seems kind of weak if this guy is really as good as a lot of people thought he was last year. Most coaches would adjust their scheme to accommodate a strong talent. I mean if Kingsbury took the Colts job last year do you think he would dump Andrew Luck because he wasn’t mobile enough for his offense. Of course not.
Kingsbury has been hot after Murray ever since he tried recruiting him and he wants that type of QB to run the same offense he ran in college.
So, yes he would dump Andrew Luck if the colts had hired him?
How about Rodgers or Brady?
We should have tried to help him take little Bill’s job and taken a shot at their aging (aged) QB
Would you bet money on that?
And its over a new HC and system in a spot where he had a QB he recruited come available at 1
Rosen had to deal with an OC fired within weeks and a HC who was do bad he was dumped in a season
This is unique
Agreed.
Quote:
and he will be our starting QB forever...
Would you bet money on that?
Wat iz ya...ignrant?
Quote:
In comment 14352205 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and he will be our starting QB forever...
Would you bet money on that?
Wat iz ya...ignrant?
Just looking for easy money
I won't believe the Giantsv are interested in this guy AT ALL until and unless it actually happens. Even then I'll pinch myself to try and wakeup.
The thing that needs to be pointed out before we cast our final judgement on him or any rookie QB...Eli Manning statistically had an awful rookie season. Worse than Rosens. Additionally the Giants were a better team than the cardinals (6-5 when the Giants made the switch to Manning). Also, he was universally hated around the league for the whole “i won’t play in SD” thing. In fact Big Ben was looked at as more of the cool leader, and Eli the pompous ass.
Obviously we saw this majorly change over time.
It may not change with Rosen, but to condemn the kid seems a bit extreme as does thinking he is a superstar in waiting.
I think the point of the post was that at the low risk and cost, if there are no QBs worthy of a top 6 pick, it would be a worthwhile consideration.
Quote:
if the Cardinals are so hot to get rid of him after spending a first round pick on him a year ago -- why it's a no-brainer to take their reject for the sake of a second round pick?
Did you happen to catch any games with Rosen this year? Statistically he was poor - so was Eli his first year - but he actually looked very good throwing the ball. Guy really is a text book throwing the ball.
And now the Cardinals are ready to dump him after a year.
And the "the Cards have a new coach, and he likes Murray" isn't enough of a reason why. If the Cardinals are giving up on the the 10th overall pick entirely because their coach likes Murray more, then they are all complete idiots. It's a quarterback. It's not a damn iPhone that you trade up for the new model every year. In that case, why not hold off on QB for another year? Maybe the Cards will suck again, fire Kingsbury, and the new coach will be in love with Fromm or Tua. Then we can trade for Murray next year! Winning!
Quote:
Im not sure a top 10 QB (who they traded up for) and slipped not for talent concerns but for potential attitude issues becoming available just a yeAr later
And its over a new HC and system in a spot where he had a QB he recruited come available at 1
Rosen had to deal with an OC fired within weeks and a HC who was do bad he was dumped in a season
This is unique
Agreed.
Agreed as well.
People need to get their head out of their ass when it comes to Rosen. Hes a bright inquisitive kid. He’s young, maybe he seemed entitled to some early. Maybe he didn’t know he rubbed people the wrong way either, but at 20/21 there’s plenty room for growth.
He showed zero red flags last year in a tumultuous year, under horrific conditions with that o-line, the coach getting fired after 1 year, the GM nearly getting canned. And on top of that you have the most class player possibly ever in Larry Fitzgerald not only advocating for Rosen as a teammate, but taking trips together with him. That is all the rubber stamp I need to see that he will be OK. He literally could not have been handed worse conditions.
Let him redshirt this year under Eli if the Giants brass wants the swan song, hell let them compete in 2020 if Eli still wants to try to play. But this is a unique occurrence and we might benefit from the perfect storm of the Cardinals unfortunate events and new direction.
People stated that Odell wouldn’t get traded either and guess what. The Giants are getting better at camouflageing their intentions. Thank God.
This is an opportunity the Giants should take. The Cardinals won’t trade him until right before or during the draft to maintain leverage, but my gosh these are the kinds of chances you kick yourself for missing.
It’s staring us right in the face. Do it DG.
Quote:
In comment 14352123 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Im not sure a top 10 QB (who they traded up for) and slipped not for talent concerns but for potential attitude issues becoming available just a yeAr later
And its over a new HC and system in a spot where he had a QB he recruited come available at 1
Rosen had to deal with an OC fired within weeks and a HC who was do bad he was dumped in a season
This is unique
Agreed.
Agreed as well.
People need to get their head out of their ass when it comes to Rosen. Hes a bright inquisitive kid. He’s young, maybe he seemed entitled to some early. Maybe he didn’t know he rubbed people the wrong way either, but at 20/21 there’s plenty room for growth.
He showed zero red flags last year in a tumultuous year, under horrific conditions with that o-line, the coach getting fired after 1 year, the GM nearly getting canned. And on top of that you have the most class player possibly ever in Larry Fitzgerald not only advocating for Rosen as a teammate, but taking trips together with him. That is all the rubber stamp I need to see that he will be OK. He literally could not have been handed worse conditions.
Let him redshirt this year under Eli if the Giants brass wants the swan song, hell let them compete in 2020 if Eli still wants to try to play. But this is a unique occurrence and we might benefit from the perfect storm of the Cardinals unfortunate events and new direction.
People stated that Odell wouldn’t get traded either and guess what. The Giants are getting better at camouflageing their intentions. Thank God.
This is an opportunity the Giants should take. The Cardinals won’t trade him until right before or during the draft to maintain leverage, but my gosh these are the kinds of chances you kick yourself for missing.
It’s staring us right in the face. Do it DG.