I argued very much for Josh Rosen last year and I stand by my assessment of his talent. I do actually prefer Kyler Murray to him in this years draft but cost to acquire has to be considered and the simple fact is if Josh Rosen is available by trade this is a virtual no brainer.
The biggest risks on Rosen are injury concerns and attitude. Both of these are mitigated by the fact that his contract is so team friendly that he is cheaper than a 3rd string QB and is easily cuttable or trade able if he is a problem.
#1 - Josh Rosen has a 3 yr contract at an avg of just over 2 mil per season
#2- Rosen’s contract does come with a 4th year option that is equally affordable
#3- Rosen’s highest base salary is just 750K in his 4th year option which is less than the 900K base salary Alex Tanney currently has.
The obvious other benefit is that This deal allows the Giants to keep both first round draft picks and next years as well while seeing how Rosen fits in with Shurmur and the locker room and the opportunity to fix the defense.
I understand the asshats are saying no to Rosen and the fact the Giants do appear to be interested in Haskins at 6.
If Haskins were acquired at 6, his contract is still of good value but you also take on a much larger contract in case he didn’t work out as you have dead money of approx. 17 mil in year 2, 12 mil in year 3 and 7 mil in year 4 based on Josh Allen’s contract last year at 7.
This mitigates the “you throw away 5 years if you miss on a QB” risk.
Plus, Haskins could also require a trade up which would mean the 6 pick plus. Last year th Jets traded 3 second rounders to move from pick 6 to 3.
If the Giants don’t take QB at 6, they may go QB at 17 or 2nd round but these are players with what we think is less talent than Rosen as SY has him his highest graded QB since Luck.
IMO - Rosen’s contract makes him a “get out of jail free” card that allows Giants to mitigate the risk and move on from him if he has attitude problems or gets hurt frequently and just can’t cut as a QB.
It’s a risk they have to take if available.
As it will be cheap to get him, if the rumors about Murray are true.
If he does not get traded to the Giants.... then let it go.
pick (37), and that only you have figured out the limited downside risk.
Dubious on both counts.
You guys are ignoring the parts of Twosteps OP where he quotes Sy as saying Rosen is better than the current crop of draftable QB,s. To my understanding tsg is saying that we could get a very good QB at low cost, and without trading up, therefore low risk. He didn't say he would commit suicide if the Giants didn't trade for Rosen.
Why do you think DG will suddenly go 180 degrees from his stated approach and take a guy who is against what DG is trying to build? It doesn't make any sense.
I'm not saying Rosen is bad, or that he can't be a winner. I'm just saying that Rosen isn't a DG type of player.
Why do you think DG will suddenly go 180 degrees from his stated approach and take a guy who is against what DG is trying to build? It doesn't make any sense.
I'm not saying Rosen is bad, or that he can't be a winner. I'm just saying that Rosen isn't a DG type of player.
Can you find one article from his time in Arizona that speaks to this?
Thanks Diver Down. I didnt know that. I appreciate the correction
Quote:
and DG has been dumping players who aren't good in the locker room.
Why do you think DG will suddenly go 180 degrees from his stated approach and take a guy who is against what DG is trying to build? It doesn't make any sense.
I'm not saying Rosen is bad, or that he can't be a winner. I'm just saying that Rosen isn't a DG type of player.
Can you find one article from his time in Arizona that speaks to this?
Not sure about Arizona but it was common knowledge coming into the draft. He’s out spoken and has maturity issues. Not sure if he’s matured much since then. It says a lot that Arizona is so willing to let him go already.
Trading for Rosen would seem to go against much of what DG has been doing in terms of locker room culture. The QB having these issues is not good. He won’t learn much in this regard from Eli either. You are who you are.
Josh Rosen tons of issues and a mess off field - ( New Window )
Im aware of your posts on the Giants interest in Rosen. Its in my post
I think they are wrong.
You would think this was an internet message board where people go to post their opinions or something?
He took an absolute beating this year behind the worst line in the NFL. No complaints, never left the game, never blamed anyone. In fact, he blamed himself one time for looking at the rush one time rather than looking down field before he was pummeled.
Beyond Larry Fitzgerald, he had one rookie and scrap heap of receivers. Never complained.
He's been publicly humiliated by a GM that says he's the QB, "for now" and hasn't said a word.
Look at his twitter account and see what causes he supported and how he was out in the community. He had lots of support from his teammates, and took a trip recently with Fitzgerald.
If you don't like his game, so be it. But criticizing him for attitude and off-the-field stuff is based on repeating a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors.
I want Haskins but there s much to get excited about with Rosen too.
I actually agree with you here...
Quote:
In comment 14351968 JohnB said:
Quote:
and DG has been dumping players who aren't good in the locker room.
Why do you think DG will suddenly go 180 degrees from his stated approach and take a guy who is against what DG is trying to build? It doesn't make any sense.
I'm not saying Rosen is bad, or that he can't be a winner. I'm just saying that Rosen isn't a DG type of player.
Can you find one article from his time in Arizona that speaks to this?
Not sure about Arizona but it was common knowledge coming into the draft. He’s out spoken and has maturity issues. Not sure if he’s matured much since then. It says a lot that Arizona is so willing to let him go already.
Trading for Rosen would seem to go against much of what DG has been doing in terms of locker room culture. The QB having these issues is not good. He won’t learn much in this regard from Eli either. You are who you are. Josh Rosen tons of issues and a mess off field - ( New Window )
Based on the cap hit, absolutely.
He took an absolute beating this year behind the worst line in the NFL. No complaints, never left the game, never blamed anyone. In fact, he blamed himself one time for looking at the rush one time rather than looking down field before he was pummeled.
Beyond Larry Fitzgerald, he had one rookie and scrap heap of receivers. Never complained.
He's been publicly humiliated by a GM that says he's the QB, "for now" and hasn't said a word.
Look at his twitter account and see what causes he supported and how he was out in the community. He had lots of support from his teammates, and took a trip recently with Fitzgerald.
If you don't like his game, so be it. But criticizing him for attitude and off-the-field stuff is based on repeating a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors.
This.. people don't know shit about his personality.. As far as the price goes its dirt cheap.. If he can be had for 17th pick, I'd do it..
And its over a new HC and system in a spot where he had a QB he recruited come available at 1
Rosen had to deal with an OC fired within weeks and a HC who was do bad he was dumped in a season
This is unique
His fault or not, he had a lousy year (and if they want Murray real bad); he might be a draft day steal - a 3rd round pick ?
And its over a new HC and system in a spot where he had a QB he recruited come available at 1
Rosen had to deal with an OC fired within weeks and a HC who was do bad he was dumped in a season
This is unique
absolutely unique and the giants should be all over it
For a reasonable price? Or do you mean unreasonable price. I don't see anyway they would want to start Murray's career with Rosen still on the roster.
Quote:
is an epidemic.
Im aware of your posts on the Giants interest in Rosen. Its in my post
I think they are wrong.
You would think this was an internet message board where people go to post their opinions or something?
You're free to shout at the clouds all you like, as I'm free to poke fun at you.
Lol
And its over a new HC and system in a spot where he had a QB he recruited come available at 1
Rosen had to deal with an OC fired within weeks and a HC who was do bad he was dumped in a season
This is unique
There are bad quarterbacks available every year. Nothing unprecedented about it at all. Only thing different in this situation is the team that invested resources in him is being smart enough to cut bait early and try to recoup some of their investment.
How do you feel about the nickname "In Perpetuity"?
There is nothing wrong with Rosen. But Kingsbury wants to change offenses and Murray is the guy to run that offense, Rosen is not a running QB. Rosen cannot run that offense so they'll want to get what they can for him.
Exactly gidie, the whole he doesn’t fit their scheme argument seems kind of weak if this guy is really as good as a lot of people thought he was last year. Most coaches would adjust their scheme to accommodate a strong talent. I mean if Kingsbury took the Colts job last year do you think he would dump Andrew Luck because he wasn’t mobile enough for his offense. Of course not.
Quote:
if the Cardinals are so hot to get rid of him after spending a first round pick on him a year ago -- why it's a no-brainer to take their reject for the sake of a second round pick?
Exactly gidie, the whole he doesn’t fit their scheme argument seems kind of weak if this guy is really as good as a lot of people thought he was last year. Most coaches would adjust their scheme to accommodate a strong talent. I mean if Kingsbury took the Colts job last year do you think he would dump Andrew Luck because he wasn’t mobile enough for his offense. Of course not.
Kingsbury has been hot after Murray ever since he tried recruiting him and he wants that type of QB to run the same offense he ran in college.
Quote:
if the Cardinals are so hot to get rid of him after spending a first round pick on him a year ago -- why it's a no-brainer to take their reject for the sake of a second round pick?
Exactly gidie, the whole he doesn’t fit their scheme argument seems kind of weak if this guy is really as good as a lot of people thought he was last year. Most coaches would adjust their scheme to accommodate a strong talent. I mean if Kingsbury took the Colts job last year do you think he would dump Andrew Luck because he wasn’t mobile enough for his offense. Of course not.
But you are making the assumption that a stable organization such as the Colts would hire a non-winning HC. The dysfunction of the Cards can't be emphasized enough. Keim was arrested and plead guilty for Extreme DUI. I don't even know what that is. He is lucky to still be employed. He knows it. So their OC was canned. Their first year HC was canned after 1 season. They had changed their long-standing defensive 3-4 to a 4-3 jettisoning the players that didn't fit the new system only to revert back to a 3-4 and will be churning the roster again as the 4-3 players won't fit their new/old system. Keim decides he wants a young Boy-Wonder as it is the flavor of coaching hires. Said Boy-Wonder has never won anything, but he gets an NFL gig. What makes anyone think he is capable to adjust a system to fit the entrenched players? He has his system and as luck would have it, Murray is the perfect player to run his system.
Did you happen to catch any games with Rosen this year? Statistically he was poor - so was Eli his first year - but he actually looked very good throwing the ball. Guy really is a text book throwing the ball.