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Josh Rosen's athletic ability

robbieballs2003 : 3/22/2019 6:48 am
This thread isn't to argue whether you want him or don't want him. That topic has been beaten like a dead horse. We also aren't discussing what you think of his attitude as none of us have that answer. We are simply just discussing his athletic ability.

Instead, I just want to compare Rosen to some of the other QBs. With the link below they compare some of the stats during the combine. He compares very well to some of the other "mobile" QBs from last year. On the NFL.com's website they have his 3 cone at 7.04 if I am not mistaken. That is very good. You hope DBs get a number under 7.

http://thehuddle.com/2018/03/03/2018-nfl-combine-results-quarterbacks/


Next, here is a clip from last year that shows he is capable of escaping the pocket and showing great technique in getting his body around while placing the ball where only Fitz could come down with it.

[url]https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelKistNFL/status/1103732512650653697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed& ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-28388741932470901284.ampproject.net%2F1903141753530%2Fframe.html[/url]

I think Rosen has this perception about him that he is just a statue in the pocket and while that may have some validity to it I don't think it is because of a lack of athletic ability. I personally believe that he isn't afraid to stand tall in the pocket and take a hit. And I think that is a positive. Pocket presence and being able to stand in there and deliver the ball has been becoming a lost art. Most QBs seem to be in the gun, a lot seem to come from spread offenses, and a lot have only like one or two quick reads. Making plays from the pocket takes time and experience and I am a proponent of QBs that know that coming into the NFL because learning that at the NFL is damn near impossible with almost no hitting in practice and with the reduction in the number of practices. When I look at a guy like Darnold I feel like he bails from the pocket too early for any number of reasons like he thinks he feels a rush when there may not be one or doesn't trust his reads or linemen and makes a certain play more complicated than it needs to be but people see the athletic ability and are like he can extend plays but not every play needs to be extended. They get wowed by something that shouldn't be praised.

Now, taking that information, I think Rosen is plenty athletic. He obviously isn't going to be a Russell Wilson or Lamar Jackson but he doesn't have to be. Going back to Shurmur's comment about a QB will probably have to make a play with his legs it is throws like that in the twitter link that he is referring to. I think Shurmur would definitely be able to work with Rosen like he did with Eli last year and all those designed roll outs.

Again, this thread isn't about whether you like Rosen or not or bringing up his "attitude". It is strictly about whether you think he is athletic enough to do some of these other things that, lets say, a Darnold could do.

What do you think?
The second link that didn't work properly  
robbieballs2003 : 3/22/2019 6:49 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
3 cone times  
robbieballs2003 : 3/22/2019 6:58 am : link
Josh Allen - 6.9
Sam Darnold - 6.96
Baker Mayfield - 7.0
Josh Rosen - 7.09
From Wikipedia re his athleticism  
Pete in VA : 3/22/2019 7:00 am : link
and his athletic genes:
Rosen was born in Manhattan Beach, California, to Charles Rosen, an orthopedic spine surgeon, and Liz Lippincott, a former journalist.[4] Rosen's father is Jewish and was a nationally ranked ice skater who almost qualified for the Winter Olympics in the 1970s, and his mother is a Quaker who was the captain of the Princeton lacrosse team.[5][6] Rosen had a bar mitzvah and identifies as Jewish, saying in 2016: "In retrospect, being Jewish is a big reason why I should have considered UCLA. Just because of how Jewish Hollywood is, and they really want someone to look up to because they just don't have professional athletes."[7][8] He is the great-great-great grandson of Joseph Wharton, an industrialist and namesake of the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania,[9] and thus a descendant of Thomas Cornell, progenitor of the Cornell family. He is named after another ancestor, Joseph Ballinger Lippincott, who founded publishing house J. B. Lippincott & Co.[10]

Rosen grew up playing tennis; at age 12 he was the No. 1-ranked player for his age group in Southern California and top-50 in the country,[4] and he became a top-10 player in junior rankings. He was introduced to football in elementary school by a friend's father who was a youth coach.[11] Right before high school, Rosen switched from tennis to football.[12]

I don't think his athleticism is a question. He also throws a very sweet ball.
Itís a good thread with validity  
Dave on the UWS : 3/22/2019 7:03 am : link
Heís good enough mobility for Shurmurís offense
Pete, it is though.  
robbieballs2003 : 3/22/2019 7:07 am : link
The perception is he is a statue and how many times have we read a poster write they want a mobile QB and Rosen doesn't fit that?

I also believe that people want a mobile QB because OL play, particularly the Giants but also across the NFL, has been very poor and they want a guy that can overcome that. The problem is that having a mobile QB is not a solution to a bad OL. Maybe a play here and there but not over a full season. And these teams with mobile QBs are now realizing that it is still very important to get him help.
RE: 3 cone times  
section125 : 3/22/2019 7:10 am : link
In comment 14352536 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Josh Allen - 6.9
Sam Darnold - 6.96
Baker Mayfield - 7.0
Josh Rosen - 7.09


Wow, for a big guy Allen has a good time.

So 0.1 sec difference top to bottom. 0.1 sec blink of an eye.
I think his athleticism may be somewhere between Darnold  
Ira : 3/22/2019 7:19 am : link
and Haskins. He's a pocket qb with some mobility.
If you ve ever had the opportunity to observe  
joeinpa : 3/22/2019 7:23 am : link
Elite tennis players up close, my nephew was division 1 player, you would have no questions about their athletic ability.

I donít take very seriously the experts here who confidently regurgitate talking points regarding this player.

He looked plenty tough and committed to me last season.
RE: I think his athleticism may be somewhere between Darnold  
section125 : 3/22/2019 7:30 am : link
In comment 14352545 Ira said:
Quote:
and Haskins. He's a pocket qb with some mobility.


Is Darnold more athletic than Rosen? I don't see it.
Josn Rosen reminds me of a young Ryan Leaf  
JohnB : 3/22/2019 7:30 am : link
He is that athletic!!!

And he has more athletic abilities than Peyton Manning, that's for sure. And they went #1 and #3 overall.
RE: 3 cone times  
Eli Wilson : 3/22/2019 7:39 am : link
In comment 14352536 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Josh Allen - 6.9
Sam Darnold - 6.96
Baker Mayfield - 7.0
Josh Rosen - 7.09


Short shuttle tines:

Rosen - 4.28
Mayfield - 4.28
Darnold - 4.40
Allen - 4.40

RE: RE: 3 cone times  
PatersonPlank : 3/22/2019 7:46 am : link
In comment 14352554 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
In comment 14352536 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


Josh Allen - 6.9
Sam Darnold - 6.96
Baker Mayfield - 7.0
Josh Rosen - 7.09



Short shuttle tines:

Rosen - 4.28
Mayfield - 4.28
Darnold - 4.40
Allen - 4.40


He also ran a 4.92 40 time.

Also:
Vertical
Rosen - 31
Mayfield - 29
Darnold - 26.5
Allen - 33.5

RE: If you ve ever had the opportunity to observe  
Diver_Down : 3/22/2019 7:51 am : link
In comment 14352546 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Elite tennis players up close, my nephew was division 1 player, you would have no questions about their athletic ability.

I donít take very seriously the experts here who confidently regurgitate talking points regarding this player.

He looked plenty tough and committed to me last season.


It's funny that you mention the athleticism of tennis players. When I played football, it was a similar scenario that others could attest to. The football program received the lion share of the athletic budget while other programs were on a shoe-string. It was also common for football players to participate in track in the Springtime not because they were dual athlete studs. But because, they could lolly-gag on the mats and flirt with the girls while doing the bare-minimum to maintain their spot on the track team.

Well, our HC for the football program would strongly "encourage" the lineman who didn't have legitimate prospects as a shot-put athlete to play tennis. Part of the reason was to bolster the tennis roster so they would continue to get funding, but the other reason was that the tennis coach was a mean alcoholic that didn't take shit. We couldn't play worth a damn. But the line drills and jump rope were hated. The hidden goal was that it encouraged fast feet and quickness for football players that weren't normally known for such attributes.
4.92 40?  
section125 : 3/22/2019 7:54 am : link
meh. Dranold 4.85 also kind of meh.
He's plenty athletic  
UberAlias : 3/22/2019 7:57 am : link
All the top prospects (this year and last) are good athletes. Maybe Haskins slightly less than others, and Murray is off the charts, but generally it is not the athleticism that separates these guys.
I haven't watched much of Rosen  
Boatie Warrant : 3/22/2019 7:59 am : link
But from what I have seen he seems pretty athletic.

My concern for any QB is if they know when to use that athleticism. You can be the most athletic QB ever but if you don't have a feel for the pressure than it doesn't matter. Does Rosen have great feel for pressure? From what I have seen he is decent.

Standing in the pocket to make a throw is a dying attribute but they also need to know when to just slide a little to the side and make the same throw. Extend the play if you will, without breaking the pocket. Can this be learned? I am not sure.

No question to me that Rosen is Athletic. I wonder how well he feels the pressure and moves WITHIN the pocket. Eli used to be great at this aspect of QBing. Can Rosen be great or at least good at it? I would think so.
A Rosen discussion without the crazy?  
EB222 : 3/22/2019 8:24 am : link
Thank you everyone!
I never questioned his athleticism  
Johnny5 : 3/22/2019 8:39 am : link
He seemed like the best pure passer out of the group last year to me. That said, I had concerns about the concussions (obviously) and I think he put those to rest last year. The only concern left in my mind has nothing to do with athletic ability, it's all about personality. If the Giants thought he was a fit here and brought him in on a trade I'd be very happy.
He was a high level tennis player  
ron mexico : 3/22/2019 8:41 am : link
You don't get to that level if you can't move.
Baker Mayfield's 40 time is only 0.08 seconds faster  
ColHowPepper : 3/22/2019 9:28 am : link
I would not have thought they were comparable. Slower is slower but the notion is pretty established that Mayfield has speed and escapability. His quickness is greater than Rosen's but they are similar in straight ahead speed.

jtGiants has been dogged in saying Rosen is not in the picture and saying Eli is 'promised' that starter role until.
But I read a mobile qb like Rosen  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/22/2019 9:31 am : link
Doesn't need a good OL or good skills player and win the SB.
I donít think anyone is not convinced of Rosenís ability to play QB  
Ivan15 : 3/22/2019 10:07 am : link
Can we limit future threads to comments from licensed sports psychologists?
I don't think anyone questioned his tools  
Heisenberg : 3/22/2019 10:11 am : link
I think people questioned his personality and if it would hold back his ability to become great and lead a team.
Why is AZ dumping their 1st RD pick after one year? What is it  
SterlingArcher : 3/22/2019 10:35 am : link
that they know about him that they no longer want him?
I still see him as the best option.  
Since1965 : 3/22/2019 10:40 am : link
Murray and Haskins will be gone. I think the Giants need to jump on this if Rosen is available and can be had for a 2 or 3 round pick. There is likely to be competition from other teams.
Was his tennis ranking for real ?  
Spider56 : 3/22/2019 11:15 am : link
Or just a prop to get him into UCLA ?
Just kidding ... Hes got some serious intellectual genes, no wonder some might find him aloof.
RE: Why is AZ dumping their 1st RD pick after one year? What is it  
PatersonPlank : 3/22/2019 11:20 am : link
In comment 14352786 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
that they know about him that they no longer want him?


This has been answered many times. They have a new HC who has already professed his love for Murray. He spoke about this before he even became the AZ HC. I'm sure the discussions during his hire were on what type of offense he would like to run, which is like what he ran at Texas Tech and for which Murray is a perfect fit. Its not an anti-Rosen thing, its a style of offense thing
RE: RE: Why is AZ dumping their 1st RD pick after one year? What is it  
JohnB : 3/22/2019 11:42 am : link
In comment 14352872 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 14352786 SterlingArcher said:


Quote:


that they know about him that they no longer want him?



This has been answered many times. They have a new HC who has already professed his love for Murray. He spoke about this before he even became the AZ HC. I'm sure the discussions during his hire were on what type of offense he would like to run, which is like what he ran at Texas Tech and for which Murray is a perfect fit. Its not an anti-Rosen thing, its a style of offense thing


You don't get rid of a QB that you KNOW can win in exchange for one whom you THINK can win. You simply hire a different coach.
I learned from BBI  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/22/2019 1:43 pm : link
We should draft Andre Aggasi for QB.
RE: I learned from BBI  
Johnny5 : 3/22/2019 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14353122 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
We should draft Andre Aggasi for QB.

The cool hair version or the bald version?
Drew Brees is also an accomplished tennis player  
Go Terps : 3/22/2019 2:08 pm : link
You can see it in his footwork and balance on screens and quick passes. Rosen has similar traits.
RE: RE: RE: Why is AZ dumping their 1st RD pick after one year? What is it  
Diver_Down : 3/22/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14352894 JohnB said:
Quote:
In comment 14352872 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 14352786 SterlingArcher said:


Quote:


that they know about him that they no longer want him?



This has been answered many times. They have a new HC who has already professed his love for Murray. He spoke about this before he even became the AZ HC. I'm sure the discussions during his hire were on what type of offense he would like to run, which is like what he ran at Texas Tech and for which Murray is a perfect fit. Its not an anti-Rosen thing, its a style of offense thing



You don't get rid of a QB that you KNOW can win in exchange for one whom you THINK can win. You simply hire a different coach.


That is simple logic that the Cardinals haven't demonstrated they are capable of. Keim has to be on the hot seat after pleading guilty to Extreme DUI. Hiring a HC that is canned after a year. Hiring a new HC that has never worked at the NFL level and has never won anything. They are caught up in the Boy-Wonder trend and will do what it takes to make it work. If that means flushing Rosen and grabbing Murray, it will prop up the system HC along with prolonging Keim's career.
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