for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

I'm liking what DG is doing with regards to FA signings.

yatqb : 3/22/2019 9:30 am
He's been very careful not to lose the 3rd round comp for Collins. He is also signing a few of our own FAs but watching several others leave, likely bringing us a few late round comp picks as well (7th rounders?).

Although late 7th rounders aren't a big deal, they're a lot better than signing JAGs and losing such picks. I'm hoping that we're starting a tradition in which we have extra picks each year, like the Pats and Philly.

Initially the comp picks we get won't primarily be high ones, but if we improve as a team and keep getting extra picks, the odds are that we will be able to replace some higher priced players with draft picks, and let replaceable FAs go for big contracts in order to gain higher comp picks. Eventually that can become self-perpetuating if you draft well enough.

Here's hoping that we do.
No at bad take  
UberAlias : 3/22/2019 9:33 am : link
I don't really get the Tate signing, but other than that I think he's playing it well.
RE: No at bad take  
Johnny5 : 3/22/2019 9:37 am : link
In comment 14352693 UberAlias said:
Quote:
I don't really get the Tate signing, but other than that I think he's playing it well.

How come? I mean yeah he's a bit redundant to the type of WR that Shepard is, but still he is a solid WR, and tough player. I really don't see a downside to having him on the squad, personally.
agreed I think he's got a pretty sensible strategy  
Eric on Li : 3/22/2019 9:39 am : link
1. get as many draft picks as possible
2. invest bulk of available cap resources in the trenches (Golden, Zeitler)
3. try to compete and protect the high value rookies with veterans like Eli & Tate (Barkley & future QB specifically)
YAT  
joeinpa : 3/22/2019 9:41 am : link
I agree
A bunch of late round picks  
mushroom : 3/22/2019 9:45 am : link
Allows you to secure players you would have to compete to sign as UDFAs. Having a lot of draft picks let's you gamble o. Greatest on a few in the later rounds too.
100M  
ryanmkeane : 3/22/2019 9:50 am : link
or so projected for next year as well...
plus picks can be traded by future  
markky : 3/22/2019 9:52 am : link
earlier round picks. it's good to have a lot of picks
RE: 100M  
Beer Man : 3/22/2019 9:53 am : link
In comment 14352713 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
or so projected for next year as well...
With the recent signings this has dropped to $86M for 2020. I would expect it to drop more when they sign all the draft picks.
Good take  
Jim Bur(n)t : 3/22/2019 9:55 am : link
And agree - 7th rders - yeah, odds are that they are JAG's.. but if our scouting is good, or just get lucky... Diamonds appear... Trent Brown was a 7th rder. (we know the drill on that).

The draft (all in all) is a gamble - The more picks, the better the odds.
RE: plus picks can be traded by future  
yatqb : 3/22/2019 9:56 am : link
In comment 14352716 markky said:
Quote:
earlier round picks. it's good to have a lot of picks


Exactly. I suspect that we'll see that this year.
what we need to do now  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2019 9:58 am : link
is carefully watch the waiver wire.
I don’t believe we’ll use all 12 picks this year.......  
Simms11 : 3/22/2019 10:02 am : link
I’m sure DG will move up at some point. It’s been his MO.
RE: RE: 100M  
TommyWiseau : 3/22/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14352717 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14352713 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


or so projected for next year as well...

With the recent signings this has dropped to $86M for 2020. I would expect it to drop more when they sign all the draft picks.


You also carry over cap space left over from this year not to mention possible cuts. We can very easily be over 100 mil in cap space come next season
There won't be a ton of rollover  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2019 10:09 am : link
by the time they're done with the draft. You do have to sign your draft picks, in this case, two top 20 picks (or a top 5 if they trade up).
Keep in mind we are NYG  
NYG007 : 3/22/2019 10:13 am : link
we were robbed of a 3rd round comp pick this year, based on all comp pick formulas and many beat writers.

Expect Collins to someone come in at a 4th or 5th, even though he was a 2nd round pick and signed for 16m a season.
Wasn’t there a story a while back how most GMs don’t want to  
Ivan15 : 3/22/2019 10:16 am : link
draft more than 7-8 players, preferring to use extra picks to move up?

Something about Day 3 picks locking you into contracts, and getting good UDFAs gives you more flexibility.
The Silver Lining  
Capt. Don : 3/22/2019 10:19 am : link
of not getting Daryl Williams (who I wanted) is that if we sign Remmers it will not impact the comp pick from Collins.

Schraeder or Kalil fall into that category as well. I have no idea about their ability only that they wont affect the comp pick.
I'm of two minds on that  
idiotsavant : 3/22/2019 10:24 am : link
1. Top ish round 2 may very well yield some additional riches on D. Those top Rd two are very often real value picks. Have many

But:

2. The 5th round may yield our offensive line starter (center? Depth guards, even RT?) by bunching 3 OL picks looking for the one home run. Getts type OL picks, heavy, not too tall, sound fundamentals, not too shabby get up
Ivan  
idiotsavant : 3/22/2019 10:25 am : link
.
So. Draft order  
idiotsavant : 3/22/2019 10:29 am : link
First three picks defense front 7.

3rd and 4th round free safeties and maybe an ILB if you missed that abive or see a PD type.

5th round. All offensive line picks looking mostly at heavy prospects for center who may be guard depth

6-7 tight ends and fullbacks, depth RB.
RE: No at bad take  
Captplanet : 3/22/2019 10:39 am : link
In comment 14352693 UberAlias said:
Quote:
I don't really get the Tate signing, but other than that I think he's playing it well.


I think the Tate Signing was more about changing the Culture of the WR group. The key players in the locker room and especially with that group are very young. I think they wanted to bring in a veteran to lead by example. Shurmur and Gettleman have complimented several of the new additions for their professionalism in several interviews.
RE: There won't be a ton of rollover  
Beer Man : 3/22/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14352745 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
by the time they're done with the draft. You do have to sign your draft picks, in this case, two top 20 picks (or a top 5 if they trade up).
Plus they may need to do some restructuring to sign everyone this year and maintain the rainy day fund DG talks about having in the event he needs to make moves during the season.
Basically,  
Doomster : 3/22/2019 10:45 am : link
6th and 7th round picks are useless.....their value is using them to trade up, or seeding ST's......yes, once in a great while you get a Bradshaw, but that is like once every 10 years something like that happens....

I am not enamored with all the DG moves the last 2 years.....the only one I like is OV for Zeitler.....we traded for a stud at RG, that solves a problem in the OL, by giving up a good edge rusher, who just couldn't stay healthy...

As for the OBj trade, we gave up a playmaker and a guy who the opposing teams had to account for....what I don't know is, and BBI doesn't either, did OBj lose a step? Did he disrespect the coaching staff? Did he decide that he shouldn't play in the last 4 games, when he possibly could have? Did he put himself ahead of the team? Were there two cooks in the same kitchen? If yes, then that was the reason for trading him.....Not this crap DG is spewing that a team made an offer they couldn't refuse.....that was an offer he could have refused......DG is now responsible for creating 75M in dead money these last two seasons....and this team will probably have another losing season....

We will never know the ramifications of this trade for maybe two or three years.....the performance of Peppers.....what we get for that 1st and 3rd round pick.....those two picks have to be hit out of the park.....

However, if OBj is another Antonio Brown, or if OBj can't stay on the field, or if his play falls off a cliff, it becomes a great trade....Obviously, OBj wants to have a big year this season.....it's what he does in those seasons after that, when the honeymoon is over, that will determine his value to this trade....
I respectfully disagree  
Vanzetti : 3/22/2019 10:49 am : link
DG’s biggest positives are his first draft and restoring order to the franchise by stopping the inmates from running the asylum

His free agent signings have been poor, especially Omemeh and Stew (a signing that never made sense). Also, he cut all of Reese’s and in many cases replaced them with guys who were worse, such as the notorious Curtis Reilly.

He has also piled up huge amounts of dead money. A team cannot win with 35-60 million in dead money. Yet, DG has kept ELI, which only makes sense if you want to win now. Yet, he can’t win now because he has traded all the best players on defense and some on offense.

So, to me he is working at cross purposes: keeping Eli is win NOW but everything else he has done is lose NOW and rebuild.
With regards to guards and tackles who may play at center  
idiotsavant : 3/22/2019 10:55 am : link
Keep in mind, some value height in guards and especially tackles. Some are lower due to that.

Obviously if you see tackles and guards who are sound fundamentally and can play low, not too light, those may be center prospects.

Your pool of center prospects just grew by a multiple of 4.

It's definitely worth a pile of 5th rounders if you get one legit missing OL piece.

Look for heft though. Short. Short arms, slow 40...all that. But must be an actual football player in the Getts way.
RE: what we need to do now  
HomerJones45 : 3/22/2019 11:06 am : link
In comment 14352726 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
is carefully watch the waiver wire.
Exactly, players cut by good teams who played the same positions as their former team's areas of strength. You're not getting anywhere taking players the Cardinals or Raiders or the teams in front of us in draft order are cutting.
I’m ok with everything so far ...  
Spider56 : 3/22/2019 11:20 am : link
But we need to sign a FA RT ... we cannot go into next season with either Wheeler or a day 1 rookie, especially since we need the blue chip picks to be on defense and the QB of the future.
BBI's tolerance  
Glover : 3/22/2019 11:50 am : link
with Gettelman is really surprising to me. The Giants have been TERRIBLE for several years; they are neither rebuilding or stacking up to win now. The best word to describe what has been going on is DISARRAY. Mara, Accorsi, Gettelman, these guys cant build a winner after what they have done in the past year, and the losing WILL continue until they realize they totally fucked this team up and realize a total rebuild is in order. We will be reminiscing about the great Jerry Reese, shit I am already. But kudos to you all for seeing the silver lining in all this mess.
With 8 of 12 picks  
Gregorio : 3/22/2019 11:54 am : link
After the 3rd round, there is so much importance put on good scouting in the late rounds this year.
re yat's OP: likely Abrams playing significant role here  
ColHowPepper : 3/22/2019 11:56 am : link
.
RE: So. Draft order  
flycatcher : 3/22/2019 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14352774 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
First three picks defense front 7.

3rd and 4th round free safeties and maybe an ILB if you missed that abive or see a PD type.

5th round. All offensive line picks looking mostly at heavy prospects for center who may be guard depth

6-7 tight ends and fullbacks, depth RB.

I felt this way until I started playing with the fanspeak draft simulator, and discovered that the better O-linemen are usually grabbed in the first 3-4 rounds. I got my best results this way:
6. ER or DL (BPA)
17. The best OT available
38. ER or DL, (whichever position wasn’t taken at 6)

I think a 1st round RT is best way to fix our biggest need.
Mine......  
Doomster : 3/22/2019 12:11 pm : link
Get ER, RT, CB, in that order....
That's not crazy flycatcher  
idiotsavant : 3/22/2019 12:11 pm : link
But keep in mind, there's a fair likely hood that a top ten type is there at D this draft at 17.

Whereas your best OT at 17 may be such as 24th best overall prospect
It illustrates how value plays vs 'need'  
idiotsavant : 3/22/2019 12:16 pm : link
. Your willingness to start the season with the same QB, WRs and ORT even maybe buys you the ability to absolutely slaughter this draft.
RE: BBI's tolerance  
Johnny5 : 3/22/2019 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14352906 Glover said:
Quote:
with Gettelman is really surprising to me. The Giants have been TERRIBLE for several years; they are neither rebuilding or stacking up to win now. The best word to describe what has been going on is DISARRAY. Mara, Accorsi, Gettelman, these guys cant build a winner after what they have done in the past year, and the losing WILL continue until they realize they totally fucked this team up and realize a total rebuild is in order. We will be reminiscing about the great Jerry Reese, shit I am already. But kudos to you all for seeing the silver lining in all this mess.

I agree with your first sentence, the rest I disagree with. Reese had no idea how to draft OL or LB. Everything else was hit or miss. The bottom half of the roster was not good. DG seems to build from the Lines out, has a better draft record, and in my eyes is better at filling out the bottom part of the roster. The guy inherited a mess, he has to make a lot of moves and he is not going to hit on every one. So far I am on board with what he is doing, especially if he has a draft like he did last year. We shall see. But make no mistake, Reese/Ross wasted the best years of our franchise QBs career on horrible drafting and team building.
RE: what we need to do now  
DavidinBMNY : 3/22/2019 2:06 pm : link
In comment 14352726 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
is carefully watch the waiver wire.
Unfortunately we aren't in the driver's seat with the waiver wire. Last year - DG did an awesome job with the wire. A few of those players have signed else where and helped us 2020 comp pick wise.

Last year we were 2nd for a while. Browns ahead of us had a roster with a chock full of young draft picks and I think only took 1 or 2 players we wanted off the wire.

Tougher at 6 especially with Arizona in the lead - they need help!
RE: RE: No at bad take  
DavidinBMNY : 3/22/2019 2:09 pm : link
In comment 14352794 Captplanet said:
Quote:
In comment 14352693 UberAlias said:


Quote:


I don't really get the Tate signing, but other than that I think he's playing it well.



I think the Tate Signing was more about changing the Culture of the WR group. The key players in the locker room and especially with that group are very young. I think they wanted to bring in a veteran to lead by example. Shurmur and Gettleman have complimented several of the new additions for their professionalism in several interviews.
It also opens options when thinking about Shep. Realistically Shep is probably a $14mm WR next year. We can't afford to franchise him, so this locks in a productive professional receiver if we can't pay Shep giving us flexibility at the position should a move be called for. Not the main reason he was signed, but a nice side effect.
exactly David  
Bill2 : 3/22/2019 3:02 pm : link
its a move we have to make to have optionality on Shepard
I've been saying this about the Tate signing.  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/22/2019 3:20 pm : link
Yes he is 30, but he's missed like one game in his career. He has all the hallmarks of a guy that will be able to play out his contract that we gave him. Shepherd is going to get a much larger contract next year.
It gives us solid options going forward at the position when we don't give him that contract. I expect to see a few WR drafted in the mid rounds this year and next, which I believe is the right position. WR is position where it is better to have a deep group than elite talent.
I think you are way overvalueing  
Mike in Boston : 3/22/2019 4:11 pm : link
a late third round comp pick. That is about a 10% change of getting a decent starter. Don't need to sign a bunch of JAG free agents of the sort you can get cheaper as UDFA. But if we can get a decent player for a reasonable price, I wouldn't let the comp pick scare me off.
RE: I respectfully disagree  
eli4life : 3/22/2019 5:41 pm : link
In comment 14352811 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
DG’s biggest positives are his first draft and restoring order to the franchise by stopping the inmates from running the asylum

His free agent signings have been poor, especially Omemeh and Stew (a signing that never made sense). Also, he cut all of Reese’s and in many cases replaced them with guys who were worse, such as the notorious Curtis Reilly.

He has also piled up huge amounts of dead money. A team cannot win with 35-60 million in dead money. Yet, DG has kept ELI, which only makes sense if you want to win now. Yet, he can’t win now because he has traded all the best players on defense and some on offense.

So, to me he is working at cross purposes: keeping Eli is win NOW but everything else he has done is lose NOW and rebuild.


Nobody wants the dead cap hits but sometimes especially when you have been this bad you just have to do it good thing about it is after this season it’s gone.

I totally disagree with you keeping Eli doesn’t mean win now. He’s in his final year of his contract big deal. Extending him a few years is win now. We don’t currently have his successor on the roster and if we draft one it allows the kid to learn and whether anyone likes it or not gives us the best chance to compete.
RE: That's not crazy flycatcher  
flycatcher : 3/22/2019 6:02 pm : link
In comment 14352957 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
But keep in mind, there's a fair likely hood that a top ten type is there at D this draft at 17.

Whereas your best OT at 17 may be such as 24th best overall prospect


That's true, and a terrific scenario...i'll root for this
He may like the KC model at QB...  
Torrag : 3/22/2019 10:36 pm : link
...but he's also following the Pats model in FA. Which is a good thing.
Back to the Corner