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Gettleman’s Roster Re-build and Winning Now…

M.S. : 3/22/2019 10:15 am
…he’s been talking about this a lot, and it sure sounds good. Sign me up!

But can such a goal be accomplished with a team that has put together several dismal seasons? It’s not as though the Giants have a pretty decent roster and just needs a few legitimate players to put the team over the hump and into the playoffs.

That’s not even close to what Gettleman is actually dealing with. Here are the holes staring straight at him:

(1) Needed upgrade at Right Tackle (and probably Center as well);
(2) No true 2-way TE threat;
(3) No clear long-term solution at QB;
(4) No obvious #1 wide receiver (which doesn’t bother me so much);
(5) Zero f-ing pass rushing threat, right at the bottom of the NFL;
(6) Way below grade linebacker unit that provides zero pass coverage effectiveness;
(7) No proven CB on team after Janoris Jenkins;
(8) Untried new Safety tandem.

In this context, what does the signing of a Golden Tate actually accomplish? He is a very fine receiver, and we certainly can use him after trading OBJ. But in laying the foundation for turning this team around for longer-term success, I don’t know how Golden Tate really helps. And, if Golden Tate is an integral part of securing one or two more victories this season, so what? All that does is push us further down the Draft chart.



...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2019 10:19 am : link
I wouldn't call the safety tandem "untried"... I am actually very curious to see these two together... nice combination of experience and athletic youth.

Also, while not calling for big things yet, Lorenzo Carter and Markus Golden can rush the passer. B.J. Hill also had 5.5 sacks in his rookie season.
Of those listed  
Dave on the UWS : 3/22/2019 10:23 am : link
the only one that is completely valid and affects winning this year is RT.
Pass rusher is the larger thing  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2019 10:25 am : link
Even if you're Lorenzo Carter's biggest fan, it's not exactly reasonable to expect a sudden leap the likes of which would give you the same kind of pass rush production you even got from Vernon last year. And that was barely enough to lift from up from the bottom of the league.
#1 and #5  
DavidinBMNY : 3/22/2019 10:30 am : link
Can be addressed with draft capital and make this team competitive and if so, better to get QB now, unless accruing draft capital for next year more then a 3rd.

in a best case scenario :-).

I feel like people are picking apart the word "rebuild"  
Brown Recluse : 3/22/2019 10:34 am : link
and over-analyzing everything thats been done.

Its really simple.

They are building by cutting loose the players they don't want and freeing up cap space, and creating a solid foundation of talent through the draft - which is what we've all been wanting for years. Now its being done.

They are still going to try and win games though. They aren't tanking. So they are signing players that can help them do that. However, you haven't seen them splurge on anyone have you? You could potentially make that case for Golden Tate, but its still essentially a two year deal and if they don't keep Shepard next year - they have a nice short term fall back option who is still cheaper.

They'll grab a QB when they find the right one.

This is all being set up for next year. When Gettleman said they have a plan and that everyone needs to "be patient" and that it will all make sense "in time," I believe this is what he meant. They're putting pieces together now and setting themselves up for a huge offseason in 2020. You might not agree with EVERY move thats been made along the way, but as far as the goal (at least what I percieve it to be) - none of the moves they've made thus far have hampered it or made it more difficult to achieve.

If this draft goes well, the Giants will be ready to roll in 2020. They'll have a good foundation of young talent.
A young QB, and plenty of money to fill in holes. And its going to be the kind of team we used to enjoy watching and rooting for without all of the extra drama and bullshit we've gotten accustomed to over the past 7 years or so.

There are better days ahead. Just let it play out.
As a GM and Coach your job is to build the team to win games  
ZogZerg : 3/22/2019 10:34 am : link
Not to suck for a better draft pick.

Since the Giants sucked the last 2 years, they have to try and win some games this year. It's not like the raiders gutting the team and sucking for one year so they could free up cap and get draft capital. Every situation is different.

They have a lot of picks. If they hit on some that will help out. Other guys will get better.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/22/2019 10:38 am : link
Losing Vernon will hurt the pass rush, but I am so glad that guy is off of the team.
RE: ...  
Brown Recluse : 3/22/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14352790 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Losing Vernon will hurt the pass rush, but I am so glad that guy is off of the team.


Gettleman is not afraid to rip the bandaid off when it comes to players and I'm ok with that.
RE: ...  
ryanmkeane : 3/22/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14352790 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Losing Vernon will hurt the pass rush, but I am so glad that guy is off of the team.

Agreed, we won't have to worry about him being questionable every week, or getting a killer rushing the passer penalty late in the game.
I still am holding out hope we sign an experience RT  
George from PA : 3/22/2019 10:51 am : link
Remmers seems to on a holding pattern since he left the Giants.....he does not seem to have done any other visit.

So maybe, he is just waiting fornus to clear some cap space.
So you create this cap space....  
Doomster : 3/22/2019 10:57 am : link
Already DG has overpaid for a LT, LB, and now a WR......he overpaid Stewart and Omameh, and a lot of his fringe FA picks, like Martin, have not panned out....

Can't wait to see how he overpays with all this cap next year, which will soon evaporate....

One thing is for sure, if rebuilding AND winning is his mantra, then he has to be all in on Eli....who will be one year older.....and he better hope that he gets a stud at RT in the draft......

And for his draft to be successful, he needs at least four picks to be starters, not just guys that start because there is no one else....
If the Giants can get another corner, Bettcher will blitz more. He  
Ira : 3/22/2019 11:00 am : link
likes to blitz, but when you blitz, your corners have to play man to man. Our corners weren't good enough for that last season and I'm not sure they are at this point.
It's not a one year deal  
idiotsavant : 3/22/2019 11:04 am : link
Rather than try doing it all at the same time, you address parts with greatness, and leave the other parts for the following year.

The market dictates which comes first, ergo, front seven on D 123, then safeties 4 then ol 55567

That leaves a shorter, more achieve able list for 2020.
RE: I still am holding out hope we sign an experience RT  
ryanmkeane : 3/22/2019 11:06 am : link
In comment 14352814 George from PA said:
Quote:
Remmers seems to on a holding pattern since he left the Giants.....he does not seem to have done any other visit.

So maybe, he is just waiting fornus to clear some cap space.

Remmers had back surgery. Likely the hold up in teams offering him a reasonable contract that he would want. If he can't get a decent guaranteed money deal, he will probably take whatever is left out there for him
If you do that well  
idiotsavant : 3/22/2019 11:10 am : link
In 2020 you only need 3 draftees and maybe one free agent, if a rt doesn't shake out from 3 5s a 6 and a 7 on OL.

2020 draft.

QB
WR
Corner
(Trade all up)


2020 free agency
ORT
I think his plan is pretty simple  
AdamBrag : 3/22/2019 11:10 am : link
He is trying to make the team competitive for Eli's final season, but he's not sacrificing draft picks or a lot of cap space to do so.

The only "long term" signing the Giants did this off season is Golden Tate and his deal is very cheap to get out of in 2 years. The Giants will have a load of money under the cap after this season and they have 12 picks in this draft.

The media is giving the Giants a lot of grief this off season, but if they get a good QB in the draft this year or next, the media will talk about the Giants as an exciting up and coming team.
RE: As a GM and Coach your job is to build the team to win games  
NoGainDayne : 3/22/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14352785 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Not to suck for a better draft pick.

Since the Giants sucked the last 2 years, they have to try and win some games this year. It's not like the raiders gutting the team and sucking for one year so they could free up cap and get draft capital. Every situation is different.

They have a lot of picks. If they hit on some that will help out. Other guys will get better.


This is not an entirely cohesive thought. Yes it's your job to win games but it's your job to win games long term. Many teams could throw away their cap to do much better one year and completely screw themselves later.

I like Kyler Murray a lot, we could have been in a position to draft him instead of picking 6 right now if we didn't beat 4 backup QBs in a throwaway season.

I'm not even willing to look at average record in a vacuum. I think most would rather a 1-15 season and a 15-1 season than two 8-8 seasons.

It's a lot worse making moves trying to win like last year and still fielding a crap team than going all the way down the toilet one year to get your QB. We went all the way down the toilet last year and still don't have our long term solution at QB.
RE: ...  
giants#1 : 3/22/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14352790 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Losing Vernon will hurt the pass rush, but I am so glad that guy is off of the team.


If Golden's healthy, I think he can pick up a lot of the slack. IIRC, 12+ sacks last time he was healthy and in Bettcher's system.
RE: ...  
Giants38 : 3/22/2019 11:12 am : link
In comment 14352761 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I wouldn't call the safety tandem "untried"... I am actually very curious to see these two together... nice combination of experience and athletic youth.

Also, while not calling for big things yet, Lorenzo Carter and Markus Golden can rush the passer. B.J. Hill also had 5.5 sacks in his rookie season.


Golden had 2.5 sacks last year. I get that he had success in the past - and that came with Bettcher - but still, we don’t have proven guys. Carter could be good, but it’s still a projection with him. BJ Hill had his moments, too, but I believe half his sacks care against the Sanchez led Redskins.

Either way, I have no faith in Gettleman. The draft was ok, but I hate the way he went about it. Listening to Ranaan - and his quotes on DG not even answering calls for the 2 pick - border on GM malpractice. And the fact that he refused to shop the Browns’ offer before agreeing to the OBJ deal is similarly garbage. His holding onto Collins and letting him go for a compensatory pick, also crap. His trades - and inability to negotiate at a competent level - are killing this team.
Aren'y you ignoring some things?  
BillT : 3/22/2019 11:12 am : link
(1) Needed upgrade at Right Tackle (and probably Center as well);
(2) No true 2-way TE threat;
(3) No clear long-term solution at QB;
(4) No obvious #1 wide receiver (which doesn’t bother me so much);
(5) Zero f-ing pass rushing threat, right at the bottom of the NFL;
(6) Way below grade linebacker unit that provides zero pass coverage effectiveness;
(7) No proven CB on team after Janoris Jenkins;
(8) Untried new Safety tandem.
Been thinking about what DG has done here over the last year  
djm : 3/22/2019 11:13 am : link
Me how annoying fans and talkies really are.

Here’s what DG has done, short and fucking sweet.

He’s traded 2018-2019 cap space for young talent and draft picks.

Everyone bitching about the dead money or this cap or that cap just shut your fucking pie holes. In one breath some of you sing the pats virtues and then call DG a dumb old man. Save it dummies. DG had one avenue to take here that enabled the giants to stockpile picks and change the locker room and he fucking took it. You wanted change? You wanted young cost controlled talent? You wanted to cleanse this franchise? You have gotten it in spades! So Eli is still here! Good! He’s a terrific place holder and ambassador here.

Odds are the giants will come out of this draft with more talent in the coffers and a young qb. They will enter 2020 with a billion dollars in cap space, two big drafts worth of young talent and likely a young qb that everyone is dreaming of.

No more BS narratives. No more bitching. Wait and see how this all works but let’s call it like it is around here. DG has done a terrific job save for 1-2 lower level FA signings that didn’t pan out, get over it.
This draft will be legendary,  
flycatcher : 3/22/2019 11:13 am : link
two enormous needs, ER and OT, are absolutely lined up to be filled in round 1 by high-end players, and a third monster added with our high 2nd rounder...this 12-pick draft will set up a new core roster, and give us a chance to be competitive now as well.
Aren't you ignoring some things?  
BillT : 3/22/2019 11:18 am : link
The duo of Carter and Golden could upgrade our pass rush and the LB spot. The QB issue is true but it's not like they don't have a possible solution. The "no proven CB" is spin. They addressed that position in the supplemental draft with a highly rated prospect. The criticism of the new safety tandem is more spin. It might be one of the more talented positions on the team.


Gettleman  
PaulN : 3/22/2019 11:19 am : link
Will get us a player or two in this draft that can rush the passer, I still have a feeling that they will get the future QB in the next draft, they will load up on the defensive line and linebackers in this draft and of coarse get a couple of offensive linemen including the right tackle.


They will use next years first and the year after next years first round picks to move up next season and get our future QB.

They have a ton of salary cap and will use that money to sign a few key players to help out the roster, the only question is if they roll with that first round pick next season or do they keep Eli one more year to try and make another run, they should have the roster complete by next off season and going into 2021.
With  
PaulN : 3/22/2019 11:20 am : link
A new QB in other words.
I agree on OV...  
Dnew15 : 3/22/2019 11:21 am : link
I haven't gone back to recheck his game log numbers or anything - but I always felt that his game had some JPP (circa 2015-17) to it.

He was always questionable - never came up with a big play when you needed it - had 3 sacks, 1 FR, 2 PD against Wash in Week 16 when the game meant nothing against their 3 string tackle.
RE: I feel like people are picking apart the word  
Paulie Walnuts : 3/22/2019 11:46 am : link
In comment 14352782 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
and over-analyzing everything thats been done.

Its really simple.

They are building by cutting loose the players they don't want and freeing up cap space, and creating a solid foundation of talent through the draft - which is what we've all been wanting for years. Now its being done.

They are still going to try and win games though. They aren't tanking. So they are signing players that can help them do that. However, you haven't seen them splurge on anyone have you? You could potentially make that case for Golden Tate, but its still essentially a two year deal and if they don't keep Shepard next year - they have a nice short term fall back option who is still cheaper.

They'll grab a QB when they find the right one.

This is all being set up for next year. When Gettleman said they have a plan and that everyone needs to "be patient" and that it will all make sense "in time," I believe this is what he meant. They're putting pieces together now and setting themselves up for a huge offseason in 2020. You might not agree with EVERY move thats been made along the way, but as far as the goal (at least what I percieve it to be) - none of the moves they've made thus far have hampered it or made it more difficult to achieve.

If this draft goes well, the Giants will be ready to roll in 2020. They'll have a good foundation of young talent.
A young QB, and plenty of money to fill in holes. And its going to be the kind of team we used to enjoy watching and rooting for without all of the extra drama and bullshit we've gotten accustomed to over the past 7 years or so.

There are better days ahead. Just let it play out.

+1
RE: I feel like people are picking apart the word  
GiantGrit : 3/22/2019 11:54 am : link
In comment 14352782 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
and over-analyzing everything thats been done.

Its really simple.

They are building by cutting loose the players they don't want and freeing up cap space, and creating a solid foundation of talent through the draft - which is what we've all been wanting for years. Now its being done.

They are still going to try and win games though. They aren't tanking. So they are signing players that can help them do that. However, you haven't seen them splurge on anyone have you? You could potentially make that case for Golden Tate, but its still essentially a two year deal and if they don't keep Shepard next year - they have a nice short term fall back option who is still cheaper.

They'll grab a QB when they find the right one.

This is all being set up for next year. When Gettleman said they have a plan and that everyone needs to "be patient" and that it will all make sense "in time," I believe this is what he meant. They're putting pieces together now and setting themselves up for a huge offseason in 2020. You might not agree with EVERY move thats been made along the way, but as far as the goal (at least what I percieve it to be) - none of the moves they've made thus far have hampered it or made it more difficult to achieve.

If this draft goes well, the Giants will be ready to roll in 2020. They'll have a good foundation of young talent.
A young QB, and plenty of money to fill in holes. And its going to be the kind of team we used to enjoy watching and rooting for without all of the extra drama and bullshit we've gotten accustomed to over the past 7 years or so.

There are better days ahead. Just let it play out.


Good post.
RE: I feel like people are picking apart the word  
DavidinBMNY : 3/22/2019 1:49 pm : link
In comment 14352782 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
and over-analyzing everything thats been done.

Its really simple.

They are building by cutting loose the players they don't want and freeing up cap space, and creating a solid foundation of talent through the draft - which is what we've all been wanting for years. Now its being done.

They are still going to try and win games though. They aren't tanking. So they are signing players that can help them do that. However, you haven't seen them splurge on anyone have you? You could potentially make that case for Golden Tate, but its still essentially a two year deal and if they don't keep Shepard next year - they have a nice short term fall back option who is still cheaper.

They'll grab a QB when they find the right one.

This is all being set up for next year. When Gettleman said they have a plan and that everyone needs to "be patient" and that it will all make sense "in time," I believe this is what he meant. They're putting pieces together now and setting themselves up for a huge offseason in 2020. You might not agree with EVERY move thats been made along the way, but as far as the goal (at least what I percieve it to be) - none of the moves they've made thus far have hampered it or made it more difficult to achieve.

If this draft goes well, the Giants will be ready to roll in 2020. They'll have a good foundation of young talent.
A young QB, and plenty of money to fill in holes. And its going to be the kind of team we used to enjoy watching and rooting for without all of the extra drama and bullshit we've gotten accustomed to over the past 7 years or so.

There are better days ahead. Just let it play out.
Well articulated.
RE: So you create this cap space....  
DavidinBMNY : 3/22/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14352820 Doomster said:
Quote:
Already DG has overpaid for a LT, LB, and now a WR......he overpaid Stewart and Omameh, and a lot of his fringe FA picks, like Martin, have not panned out....

Can't wait to see how he overpays with all this cap next year, which will soon evaporate....

One thing is for sure, if rebuilding AND winning is his mantra, then he has to be all in on Eli....who will be one year older.....and he better hope that he gets a stud at RT in the draft......

And for his draft to be successful, he needs at least four picks to be starters, not just guys that start because there is no one else....
Are you even a Giants fan? Serious question - I realize by your handle your a pessimistic human - but this is a bit much.
RE: Aren't you ignoring some things?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/22/2019 2:09 pm : link
In comment 14352864 BillT said:
Quote:
The duo of Carter and Golden could upgrade our pass rush and the LB spot. The QB issue is true but it's not like they don't have a possible solution. The "no proven CB" is spin. They addressed that position in the supplemental draft with a highly rated prospect. The criticism of the new safety tandem is more spin. It might be one of the more talented positions on the team.



They do have one proven CB, Jenkins, but Sam Beal has one NFL practice to his name. It is a very, very rosy outlook to say with any certainty that anything was addressed there.
I think most are overthinking the win now mantra  
eli4life : 3/22/2019 5:27 pm : link
First I don’t care if you like a word or not when you replace the percent of the roster we have and ship out the players that we did guess what your rebuilding. Call it what you want building, retooling, unicorn farting rainbows we are rebuilding.

The win now is nothing more than doing what we can to win some games and not “purposly” tank like Miami. I’m pretty sure DG and PS are smart enough to realize we aren’t ready to be a Super Bowl contender. Who knows maybe if the stars line up and the ball actually bounces our way for once we could end up with a wild card but I don’t think that’s what they mean. I think it’s simply they aren’t going to roll over for future picks and try to win with their best ability each and every week.
RE: RE: ...  
Bluesbreaker : 3/23/2019 5:55 pm : link
In comment 14352798 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 14352790 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Losing Vernon will hurt the pass rush, but I am so glad that guy is off of the team.


Agreed, we won't have to worry about him being questionable every week, or getting a killer rushing the passer penalty late in the game.


Amen to that he is more of a tease the fact that he is off injured he always seemed to be nicked up throw in some boneheaded penalties he can be replaced .
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