My turn.. Don’t like it, don’t respond. It is the only way to stop the threads.
I have participated in many of these threads and I believe most regular posters know I think Eli has been declining and has recently been average to a slightly below average QB. I do not think that makes me a bad fan. All of these takes are based on the preponderance of evidence both statistical and subjective. I have also been open about the fact that I could be wrong.
I am going to make the opposing case, not because I have completely changed my mind but for the intellectual exercise of it. The needle is starting to move in that direction for me though, this is why.
It is entirely possible, and likely in my opinion that ownership now sees in the clarity of hindsight that they have made mistakes regarding Eli Manning. The team under performed at times under Coughlin in the back half of seasons. They got frustrated and made the wrong changes, they listened to the wrong people. I am not going to do a dissertation on these as we all have a good idea what I am talking about. It all came to a crash under McAdoo. Rock Bottom.
If I were a member of ownership, I would be very loyal to Eli. He showed up to work everyday. He played hurt. In the biggest of moments he came up diamonds. He earned that loyalty. I think they had an epiphany and hired someone who knew what kind of team and coach Eli needed to succeed. I do not indict them for this, I applaud them for it. Shurmur doesn’t put round pegs into square holes. He designs his offenses to his players strengths.
It seems as though someone intelligently went to the multiple SB winning MVP QB in the locker room and asked him what he needed to succeed. Makes sense, why not ask the guy that won the big dance? What did he say? Well, I am best at play action. A dominant run game with a physical offensive line that the defense has to respect.
That is happening, I think OBJ being gone will help him. If he doesn’t have to force throws to keep a diva happy, the offense can move organically to where the holes are in the opposing defense. The 80 yard TDs that traveled 7 yards in the air to OBJ can to go Barkley instead.
I admit it, I think Eli has more than a reasonable chance to do well this year. I think many people would do well this year behind center if we run and block as well as I expect. I am rooting for this. Eli deserves it. He does not deserve what happened to him at the end of his career. It has been a disgrace. I know he was well compensated, there is more to life than compensation.
I have no problems being all in on Eli this year. Even if you have been in the it is time to move on crowd, as a Giant fan, it would have to feel damn good to you, to see all the people in the media that have been piling on him eat some crow. I hope they draft or sign his replacement, but I hope that whoever it is, has to sit because Eli fucking KILLS IT in 2019.
We'll see.
We'll see.
The thing about Peyton though is that he had a defense who could carry them.
I think there is something to not forcing things. One of Eli's biggest strengths in the past was distribution of the ball. There were some games where 7-8 different players caught passes. Let him read the defense and deliver the ball based on that.
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It's a thoughtful take. In a somewhat more simplistic view, I feel they are doing what was done or Peyton at the end. Good OL, good ground game, let Peyton use his brain, throw less per game, make more meaningful outcomes from the throws you have.
We'll see.
The thing about Peyton though is that he had a defense who could carry them.
The other thing about Peyton was that by that time he had a dead arm.
Not the case, yet, with Eli.
I do believe it's possible for Eli to have a very good season, if the offensive line is strong, and the defense isn't bad. I don't think the defense needs to be dominating, but they do need to not be a bad defense. To me, Gettleman has given the Giants a great gift in Saquon Barkley, and then adding players that will make Saquon even better. Golden Tate even, great blocking WR. Bringing in Zeitler. Simonson has been a good blocking TE. If the Giants block better than everyone else, this could be a historic season for Saquon and a darkhorse run for the Giants in our division.
I do believe Eli can win, because I believe Shurmur's system is right for him, I believe the OL is vastly improved and still an emphasis, and I believe Saquon is so uniquely good that he can make Eli's job so much easier. I really am not a 'sky is falling' guy with this team, even this next year. Even if it doesn't work out, I see the plan, and I like what they are building.
can't rewrite coaching history
-here we are-
/so going forward/
you hope that this team can run the ball
so we can play action
so Eli can resemble his prime at the team's prime
-truly- hope you're right
/respectfully, however/
he doesn't scare defenses any more
/but 2019 QBs don't thrill me/
so i'm all in too
(can't get any worse)
I do believe it's possible for Eli to have a very good season, if the offensive line is strong, and the defense isn't bad. I don't think the defense needs to be dominating, but they do need to not be a bad defense. To me, Gettleman has given the Giants a great gift in Saquon Barkley, and then adding players that will make Saquon even better. Golden Tate even, great blocking WR. Bringing in Zeitler. Simonson has been a good blocking TE. If the Giants block better than everyone else, this could be a historic season for Saquon and a darkhorse run for the Giants in our division.
I do believe Eli can win, because I believe Shurmur's system is right for him, I believe the OL is vastly improved and still an emphasis, and I believe Saquon is so uniquely good that he can make Eli's job so much easier. I really am not a 'sky is falling' guy with this team, even this next year. Even if it doesn't work out, I see the plan, and I like what they are building.
So I agree with nearly everything you said. If they can still improve RT to further shore up the OL then my main worry is a lack of a true #1 WR now that Beckham is gone. And it will only gets worse if the Shepard trade rumors come to fruition.
I think there is something to not forcing things. One of Eli's biggest strengths in the past was distribution of the ball. There were some games where 7-8 different players caught passes. Let him read the defense and deliver the ball based on that.
So I agree with nearly everything you said. If they can still improve RT to further shore up the OL then my main worry is a lack of a true #1 WR now that Beckham is gone. And it will only gets worse if the Shepard trade rumors come to fruition.
he turned numerous slants to TDS and made key catches to win ball games that year
without OBJ no way Giants get to playoffs
as we saw the year after when he got hurt in preseason and Giants offense never got going .
Stop with the he is declining. He is the same QB as he was 8 years ago if you ask me. If you protect him he is good and if you don't he isn't.
We hope we'll have a decent OL this year.
What remains to be seen is whether Eli is permanently shell shocked from the beating he's taken. If he still has it between the ears, he'll be fine. The O will carry it's weight.
The D will suck, though.
most importantly the center of the offensive line is beefed up which will help Eli greatly as well as SB, and diminished she need for rt.
no divas helps. divas arei not giant football. this will be an interesting year for those who like 1950’s or 1990’s football as played by giants. it’s also winning football if we improve defense in big way through the draft.
Great post gratefuldeadhead
Just saying.
Just saying.
I agree with Carl Banks. The way that so many fans have turned on Eli, one the best Giants ever, is just mind boggling.
I think there is something to not forcing things. One of Eli's biggest strengths in the past was distribution of the ball. There were some games where 7-8 different players caught passes. Let him read the defense and deliver the ball based on that.
This might be one of those times where you're assigning special credit to Eli for something that's completely ordinary. Eli completed passes to 7+ receivers 10 times last season alone.
If that sounds great, consider that Dak Prescott did it 13 times last year; Sam Darnold did it 12 times in 13 starts (and Josh McCown did it in all 3 of his starts); Nick Mullens did it in 7 of his 8 starts; the immortal Blake Bortles did it 6 times last season.
I would hope that one of Eli's biggest strengths should be a skill that isn't shared by rookies, journeymen, and draft busts.
I am and always have been an Eli supporter, but if he declined I would say it’s time to move on. But from watching nearly every game of his career he can still win if given an decent line and an good running game.
Look how many 1st round QB busts there have been. If you have a QB who can make all the throws and is mentally matured why would you move on.
Stop with the he is declining. He is the same QB as he was 8 years ago if you ask me. .
Not even remotely true.
So, if they brought in a guy to learn but if by chance also started off the season hot and looked every bit a championship contender, you would throw it away?
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But he is not the future. I’m all in favor of starting Eli until they have his successor and allowing whoever that is to sit a year behind him. What I don’t agree with is having any less urgency to secure his successor because you are fine with how Eli is playing at this moment. That doesn’t mean force the wrong QB. But the urgency to find that guy had better be there and Eli should not factor into such decisions. The number one priority for this team should be about building for the future. The win now stuff is gravy.
So, if they brought in a guy to learn but if by chance also started off the season hot and looked every bit a championship contender, you would throw it away?
Which is why passing on a QB this year in hopes of being in position to draft a 2020 QB is very risky.
Of Reese was t the worst GM in football history judging OL talent this team wouldn’t have hit the depths it has. No idea how successful but they get the OL from bottom of the NFL to above average with maybe one stud form the draft and Barkley can carry the tram like Elliot does in Dallas
If you are expecting Eli to lead this team to a SB, with this defense, still a questionable OL(we only have 3 pieces), and average talent in the receiving corps, and no backups at any position, you must remove those blue tints...
Yes we do have Barkley, but Barkley is going to be the main focus of defenses, that don't have to worry about an OBj....
If we draft well, and free agents pan out, and we can avoid the injury bug, this team will be better, but it won't be making a quantum leap towards being a contender....
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you don't need your own thread to give your take. Any one of the many daily Eli threads will do. An opinion doesn't count any more just because it's an OP.
Just saying.
Your welcome :)
Sorry to divert but Terrapin Station is one of the most severely underrated albums ever. Had to express this.
Coughlin is gone because he made mistakes with personnel and game day decisions he would not have made 5 years earlier. Take it from another retired baby boomer.
McAdoo as OC brought an offense that looked like it would work when the Coughlin-Gilbride offense was no longer practical. McAdoo failed because his offense failed along with his management skills.
Reese is-well-just Reese. He wasn’t as good as he looked in the beginning or as bad as he looked at the end. Don’t forget that he didn’t have DG as pro personnel director for the last half of his reign.
If with the number of picks we have ad current players
we should have a decent roster on both sides of the ball.
With some improvement on some of our younger players and
the addition of some talent on the defensive line
and a guy like Beal becomes a solid player anything
can happen .just like every season its about health and
eliminating dumb penalties .
We will miss OBJ playmaking but Tate is no slouch .