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i just can't see us taking a QB at 6 or even 17

Platos : 3/22/2019 4:34 pm
every year the media blows up the available QBs and they all move up the board.

Quarterbacks taken in the first round
2007
1: JaMarcus Russell, Raiders
22: Brady Quinn, Browns

2008
3: Matt Ryan, Falcons
18: Joe Flacco, Ravens

2009
1: Matthew Stafford, Lions
5: Mark Sanchez, Jets
17: Josh Freeman, Buccaneers

2010
1: Sam Bradford, Rams
25: Tim Tebow, Broncos

2011
1: Cam Newton, Panthers
8: Jake Locker, Titans
10: Blaine Gabbert, Jaguars
12: Christian Ponder, Vikings

2012
1: Andrew Luck, Colts
2: Robert Griffin III, Redskins
8: Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins
22: Brandon Weeden, Browns

2013
16: EJ Manuel, Bills

2014
3: Blake Bortles, Jaguars
22: Johnny Manziel, Browns
32: Teddy Bridgewater, Vikings

2015
1: Jameis Winston, Buccaneers
2: Marcus Mariota, Titans

2016
1: Jared Goff, Rams
2: Carson Wentz, Eagles
26: Paxton Lynch, Broncos

2017
2: Trubisky
10: Mahomes
12: Watson

there are some good picks in there obviously but a lot aren't the home runs people thought they would be. Notice how many times the Browns are up there...

way too many QBs don't translate well to the NFL and I see no point in taking one just to make the media and rabid fans happy.

If DG passes on the top rated guys this year whether they go before our pick or not it's going to be ugly in the media but looking back historically it really isn't warranted.
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The Browns didnít just pick bad QBs  
UberAlias : 3/22/2019 4:43 pm : link
They also passed in some good ones, leading to some of those bad picks in later years.
So we shouldn't take a QB because he might not work out?  
BillT : 3/22/2019 4:45 pm : link
So if we never take a QB because he might not work out, how will we ever get a QB.
Other than Luck  
Dave on the UWS : 3/22/2019 4:47 pm : link
no such thing as a perfect prospect. So how are you suggesting we get our next QB?
The media doesn't move the QBs up the board.  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/22/2019 4:49 pm : link
The QBs move up the board because the position is that important; the media just covers them with greater attention as they get more and more info about the players' draft stock rising.

If you genuinely believe that teams are drafting QBs because the media gives those prospects more attention, I don't know what to tell you.
He didnít say to not draft a QB  
Daniel in Kentucky : 3/22/2019 4:55 pm : link
Heís saying you donít force it. You only draft a QB if you are 100% certain he is the guy. And heís also saying most picks in the 1st are busts or are not franchise QBs.

How can you not agree.
?  
Daniel in Kentucky : 3/22/2019 4:55 pm : link
?
thanks Daniel in KY  
Platos : 3/22/2019 5:00 pm : link
Yea, not saying don't. if you like a guy take him. Don't take him because you're pressured by Fans/Media backlash if you don't take a guy.
Idea isn't to take a QB to make fans and media happy...  
kinard : 3/22/2019 5:02 pm : link
... its to take a QB because we need to make an obvious transition.

If you're waiting for the perfect QB fit, you might be waiting forever.

We're trying to win championships here and sometimes you just have to roll the dice when your picking high up. That doesn't mean reach for someone, but if there is a certain skill set that you see that that can be refined you pull the trigger and don't look back. The idea of an apprenticeship under the tutelage of a two-time Super Bowl QB and the consummate pro makes me think that this is the perfect opportunity to go for it (and I don't mean with the 17th pick). I recall some GM saying pretty recently "No guts. No glory"
Being scared to take a risk isnít the  
eli4life : 3/22/2019 5:02 pm : link
Way to go
Brady Quinn being a bust  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/22/2019 5:03 pm : link
still is crazy to me. I thought he was going to be just fine in the NFL. lol
i'd rather waste multiple mid round picks on QBs  
Platos : 3/22/2019 5:03 pm : link
than continually waste 1st round picks where you are almost certain to get a good starting caliber player.
RE: thanks Daniel in KY  
BillT : 3/22/2019 5:05 pm : link
In comment 14353473 Platos said:
Quote:
Yea, not saying don't. if you like a guy take him. Don't take him because you're pressured by Fans/Media backlash if you don't take a guy.

So, you think DG is going to be pressured into taking a QB he doesn't want because of the media/fans. Really? Then this post shouldn't be about QBs it should be about firing DG being stupid enough to be pressured into taking a QB he doesn't want because of the media/fans.
um, yea Bill  
Platos : 3/22/2019 5:08 pm : link
DG is human, like the other 32 GMs in the league.

and i don't think he will, I'm saying he shouldn't  
Platos : 3/22/2019 5:10 pm : link
it's definitely a possibility they take a flyer on whoever is left at 37 just to shut fans/media up temporarily.
the fact that it is hard isn't a particularly good reason not to do it  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/22/2019 5:11 pm : link
It's also much harder to be a good football team without a good QB. It's also much harder to find a good QB in the later rounds.

But you do have to be convinced that the guy you pick is the real deal. That's why picking a guy lower because he is a "better value" doesn't normally lead to success. There are only a small number of people that are really good at this job at this level.
29 QBís and 5 went to Super Bowl  
Rjanyg : 3/22/2019 5:15 pm : link
And Wentz wasnít the starter.

Interesting stat.
RE: i'd rather waste multiple mid round picks on QBs  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/22/2019 5:17 pm : link
In comment 14353480 Platos said:
Quote:
than continually waste 1st round picks where you are almost certain to get a good starting caliber player.

Statistically speaking, you could spend a mid/late round pick on a QB hoping for the next Tom Brady, and you'd most likely die before you hit on one as a true franchise QB.

Or you can take one near the top of the draft where, despite the risk, you have a MUCH better chance of finding a successful QB.

Here's the thing that some people fail to grasp: every position has busts. Dion Jordan sucked. Trent Richardson sucked. Jason Smith sucked. Aaron Curry sucked. Justin Gilbert sucked. Troy Williamson sucked. Vernon Gholston sucked.

If you're looking for a sure thing, you probably should avoid the NFL draft entirely. And don't move the goalposts - if the standard in your OP is that a QB needs to be a franchise QB or it's a wasted pick, then you can't lower the bar to "starting caliber" for other positions. There are plenty of "starting caliber" QBs that you're classifying as bad picks here.
DG  
BleedBlue : 3/22/2019 5:18 pm : link
pressured?!? no chance...if so he would have went QB last year when most giant fans wanted one. shit im sure people in the building wanted one. DG is going to do what HE thinks is best, not the fans. i agree dont force a QB. i dont think haskins or murray at 6 is forcing. i dont think lock at 17 is forcing. i dont think jones at 37 is forcing...other than that for those top 4 sure you can argue its a force.
RE: um, yea Bill  
BillT : 3/22/2019 5:19 pm : link
In comment 14353489 Platos said:
Quote:
DG is human, like the other 32 GMs in the league.

Well then, like I said. You should be writing about what a dope you think DG might be because you think he might be pressured into a drafting a QB he doesn't want because of media/fan pressure. Doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the QBs drafted in the past.
Think DG goes BPA every pick, that was his mantra last year.  
TMS : 3/22/2019 5:25 pm : link
You can look it up. If a QB is that guy he will take him if not he will pass.
Think he does not pick for need in the draft. I like it.
I would equate drafting QB with a high pick to getting married.  
Daniel in Kentucky : 3/22/2019 5:26 pm : link
It can be the best decision of you your life or one of the worst.

You can end up married to Peyton Manning or you can end up married to Jamarcus Russel. Peyton will have statues of him erected in Indy. Raiders franchise is still recovering from that pick.

If you mess up drafting that pick you set your franchise back for years.
So you had better be in love with the pick. So with that being said, there should be a certain amount of caution. If you are not in love and certain, donít put a ring on it. There are no prenups for rookie deals.
strong teams give QBs  
Platos : 3/22/2019 5:27 pm : link
better chances of winning.

we do not have a strong team, and haven't really had an overall strong team in a long time.
RE: He didnít say to not draft a QB  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 3/22/2019 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14353465 Daniel in Kentucky said:
Quote:
Heís saying you donít force it. You only draft a QB if you are 100% certain he is the guy. And heís also saying most picks in the 1st are busts or are not franchise QBs.

How can you not agree.


Shouldn't you only draft someone if you're 100% certain he is the guy? Giants need a QB. When and where do you expect them to get one?

Should they stay pat and draft another Ereck Flowers or Eli Apple in the top 10?
Did you guys forget  
Doomster : 3/22/2019 5:29 pm : link
we have Lauletta?
RE: Did you guys forget  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 3/22/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14353518 Doomster said:
Quote:
we have Lauletta?


Who?
This is scary........  
George from PA : 3/22/2019 5:31 pm : link
Outside of Luck and for now, Mahomes.....i wouldn't want any of the other QBs.

Including Ryan and Newton.

What this tells you.....appriciate Eli....as it will be awhile before we have another one like him.
GMs May Be Pressured by Their Owners...  
Jim in Tampa : 3/22/2019 5:32 pm : link
coaches, scouts, etc to pick a player or a certain position, but they sure as hell aren't listening to the media or fans.

Do you honestly think that any GM, let alone DG thinks the media and fans know better about what's best for the team than he does?

Give me a break.
This Is Just an Eli Vote  
Giants38 : 3/22/2019 5:35 pm : link
I guarantee if Eli had retired, 90% of this place would want a QB.
Actually Bill  
Platos : 3/22/2019 5:35 pm : link
i think it does have something to do with QBs drafted in the past.

we wouldn't know a lot of these names if they didn't go high in the draft. Teams reach all the time. it has nothing to do whether i think he's an idiot or not. i think maybe you're trying to push that narrative.

I personally don't think DG will reach this year unless Haskins or somehow Murray are there at 6.

will be fun to see half this board meltdown when its day 3 and we still didn't pick a QB.
RE: strong teams give QBs  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/22/2019 5:40 pm : link
In comment 14353516 Platos said:
Quote:
better chances of winning.

we do not have a strong team, and haven't really had an overall strong team in a long time.

Good QBs make teams strong, too. And since you can more easily build a strong team with the cap room gained by having a QB on his rookie deal, and because QBs tend to have longer shelf lives than other positions, waiting for your roster to be fully built up before you go looking for a QB is not necessarily the most efficient play.

You draft for the best value to your team when the opportunities are there, and it's never simply BPA (do you think the Giants would take a RB at #6 if he was the BPA this year?). Maybe there's a QB this year that fits best value, maybe there's not. That's for DG to determine.

It won't be because the fans want a QB. It won't be for fear of the media. It won't be because the rest of the roster isn't good enough. It'll be because the QB position is the most important on the field and the Giants feel there is one available that will make their team better for the next decade or more.
RE: Actually Bill  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/22/2019 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14353527 Platos said:
Quote:
i think it does have something to do with QBs drafted in the past.

we wouldn't know a lot of these names if they didn't go high in the draft. Teams reach all the time. it has nothing to do whether i think he's an idiot or not. i think maybe you're trying to push that narrative.

I personally don't think DG will reach this year unless Haskins or somehow Murray are there at 6.

will be fun to see half this board meltdown when its day 3 and we still didn't pick a QB.

What kind of douche roots for a meltdown?

Here's some news for you - there are a lot of people who are hoping the Giants have an opportunity to secure their successor to Eli and will still manage to maintain their sanity if/when the Giants go in another direction. The Giants are picking in the top 10 for the 4th time in 5 years. I'm pretty sure the fans are going to be optimistic about any player they pick being a difference maker for this team's future.

But go ahead and root for a meltdown. You seem like a swell guy.
uhh  
Platos : 3/22/2019 5:46 pm : link
Quote:
RE: He didnít say to not draft a QB
LawrenceTaylor56 : 5:29 pm : link : reply
In comment 14353465 Daniel in Kentucky said:
Quote:
Heís saying you donít force it. You only draft a QB if you are 100% certain he is the guy. And heís also saying most picks in the 1st are busts or are not franchise QBs.

How can you not agree.


Shouldn't you only draft someone if you're 100% certain he is the guy? Giants need a QB. When and where do you expect them to get one?

Should they stay pat and draft another Ereck Flowers or Eli Apple in the top 10?


no we should've made better picks like Gurley/GOrdon/Peat or Tunsil or try like hell to trade back.
i'm not rooting for a meltdown Gatorade, thanks for the name calling  
Platos : 3/22/2019 5:49 pm : link
I'm just saying it will be funny when it eventually happens.

I've been around since the infamous 03/05. i remember how people here acted when it looked like San Diego got the better of our trade.
Eli forever!!!!  
oldutican : 3/22/2019 5:53 pm : link
Who needs a stinkiní new QB!
RE: i'm not rooting for a meltdown Gatorade, thanks for the name calling  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/22/2019 5:57 pm : link
In comment 14353538 Platos said:
Quote:
I'm just saying it will be funny when it eventually happens.

I've been around since the infamous 03/05. i remember how people here acted when it looked like San Diego got the better of our trade.

What does the 2005 free agency haul when we signed Pierce, Burress, and McKenzie have to do with the Eli trade? Or are you confusing 3/05 with 4/04?
so people stopped freaking out  
Platos : 3/22/2019 6:07 pm : link
in 04?

they weren't here freaking out in 05? or 06? or 07 before the Bills game?

the same way you guys are freaking out because i'm giving an opinion on why we shouldn't force a pick in 2019 because you guys wanted a QB last year...
RE: Actually Bill  
BillT : 3/22/2019 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14353527 Platos said:
Quote:
i think it does have something to do with QBs drafted in the past.

we wouldn't know a lot of these names if they didn't go high in the draft. Teams reach all the time. it has nothing to do whether i think he's an idiot or not. i think maybe you're trying to push that narrative.

I personally don't think DG will reach this year unless Haskins or somehow Murray are there at 6.

will be fun to see half this board meltdown when its day 3 and we still didn't pick a QB.

I'm not the one pushing any narrative. You said you think DG may reach based on media/fan pressure. That would make him an idiot. The fact that some QBs haven't panned out doesn't mean teams reached because of media/fan pressure. More likely they were just wrong about the talent. You're the one with the explanations that don't make much sense.
The odd thing is there clearly was pressure to take a  
BSIMatt : 3/22/2019 6:09 pm : link
Quarterback last year, maybe even more so than this year, and the Giants didnít give into that pressure and the backlash from many in the media and many fans was significant. I donít think the Giants have any problems passing on a quarterback due to outside pressure.
RE: so people stopped freaking out  
BillT : 3/22/2019 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14353549 Platos said:
Quote:
in 04?

they weren't here freaking out in 05? or 06? or 07 before the Bills game?

the same way you guys are freaking out because i'm giving an opinion on why we shouldn't force a pick in 2019 because you guys wanted a QB last year...

You want an example of someone freaking out. This would be it.
RE: The odd thing is there clearly was pressure to take a  
BillT : 3/22/2019 6:12 pm : link
In comment 14353552 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
Quarterback last year, maybe even more so than this year, and the Giants didnít give into that pressure and the backlash from many in the media and many fans was significant. I donít think the Giants have any problems passing on a quarterback due to outside pressure.

Well, you couldn't be correct. Platos said so.
Bill i actually didn't say i think he would  
Platos : 3/22/2019 6:13 pm : link
you guys are combative board nazi's today i guess we shouldn't discuss anything ever.
I do not want a QB  
George from PA : 3/22/2019 6:18 pm : link
I want the right QB.

The one that win Super Bowls. The one who win games with 4th qtr come backs. The one who raise the play of everyne else.
RE: Bill i actually didn't say i think he would  
BillT : 3/22/2019 6:18 pm : link
In comment 14353557 Platos said:
Quote:
you guys are combative board nazi's today i guess we shouldn't discuss anything ever.

I think that would be wise.
RE: Bill i actually didn't say i think he would  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/22/2019 6:19 pm : link
In comment 14353557 Platos said:
Quote:
you guys are combative board nazi's today i guess we shouldn't discuss anything ever.

We could try to limit topics to things that don't include presupposing that Gettleman might make his draft day decisions on the basis of fan support or media backlash. Would that be a fair compromise?
RE: RE: Did you guys forget  
GFAN52 : 3/22/2019 6:20 pm : link
In comment 14353519 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14353518 Doomster said:


Quote:


we have Lauletta?



Who?


Is he out of traffic school?
Some of those guys were so over-drafted it hurts.  
Red Dog : 3/22/2019 6:22 pm : link
Tebow and Manziel should have been off every team's draft board because they had huge red flags. But they were high picks.

Others like Manuel, J.P. Losman, and Winston had enough question marks that should have taken them out of the first round, sometimes way out of the first round.

Yet Drew Brees fell to the top of the 2nd round, and Tom Brady was a 6th rounder.

What this goes to show is that most teams still don't have any idea of how to properly evaluate prospects for the most important position in the game. So they swing for the fences and strike out a lot.
There is more than one way to get a QB.  
81_Great_Dane : 3/22/2019 6:28 pm : link
You can draft one, but QBs have a very high bust rate, even in the first round. You have to be prepared to live with that. (Clearly, busted QB picks drive a lot of BBIers crazy, based on the reaction to Lauletta, Webb and the guys who busted under Coughlin.)

You trade for a prospect from another team, as the Packers did when they got Brett Favre from Atlanta, and as many now want the Giants to do with Rosen from the Cardinals.

You can trade for an established QB, as the Giants once did for Tarkenton. Very very difficult to do.

You can sign a free agent and hope you get lucky, as the Giants did with Kerry Collins (released IIRC) and the Saints did with Drew Brees (coming off injury).

All in all, I wouldn't get too stuck on drafting a QB for need. Getting the right guy is more important than getting a guy right now.
RE: i'd rather waste multiple mid round picks on QBs  
giantstock : 3/22/2019 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14353480 Platos said:
Quote:
than continually waste 1st round picks where you are almost certain to get a good starting caliber player.


I'd rather get the 1st rd pick right. Just because some GM's and scouts in the past have been incompetent doesn't mean the GMEN should ignore taking a 1st rd pick. It seems like you are resigning to taking a later pick because other teams are incompetent and youare possibly scared of your own shadow. .

RE: RE: i'd rather waste multiple mid round picks on QBs  
GFAN52 : 3/22/2019 6:45 pm : link
In comment 14353581 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14353480 Platos said:


Quote:


than continually waste 1st round picks where you are almost certain to get a good starting caliber player.



I'd rather get the 1st rd pick right. Just because some GM's and scouts in the past have been incompetent doesn't mean the GMEN should ignore taking a 1st rd pick. It seems like you are resigning to taking a later pick because other teams are incompetent and youare possibly scared of your own shadow. .


Quantity over quality picks rarely works out.
RE: RE: RE: i'd rather waste multiple mid round picks on QBs  
giantstock : 3/22/2019 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14353591 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 14353581 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14353480 Platos said:


Quote:


than continually waste 1st round picks where you are almost certain to get a good starting caliber player.



I'd rather get the 1st rd pick right. Just because some GM's and scouts in the past have been incompetent doesn't mean the GMEN should ignore taking a 1st rd pick. It seems like you are resigning to taking a later pick because other teams are incompetent and youare possibly scared of your own shadow. .




Quantity over quality picks rarely works out.


Huh? WHat does that have to do with what I posted in reply to the OP?
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