Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Eli Manning Film Analysis - Podcast by Zac Shomler

USAF NYG Fan : 3/23/2019 12:43 pm

I really dread this and might delete after I write it up instead of posting. I know, I know! Not another Eli Manning thread. However, I really liked this one. I feel it was a well thought out analysis of Eli Manning with a little extra as it showed some interesting things about OBJ as well. Maybe one of many reasons why they traded him?

Please don't turn this into an absurd Eli Manning hater/lover thing. Well, at least not in some disrespectful manner. I'm just posting it because I thought it was worth passing along.

The one for Eli Manning was posted today and here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7l3vv82_Eg

There was a post not long ago where this same guy did an analysis for Dwayne Haskins. He holds a YouTube podcast called Strong Opinion Sports. He seems to do a good job breaking down the plays and what not. In that thread are also links to Josh Rosen and Kyler Murray
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2& thread=580543

In the interest of saving time to find his other reviews:

Haskins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu08P-dh8gY

Murray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jQtdCgtWpc

Josh Rosen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho2E4ihqlrU


Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: RE: This guy didnt do his homework  
twostepgiants : 3/23/2019 1:42 pm : link
In comment 14354292 Strip-Sack said:
Quote:
In comment 14354276 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Ereck Flowers is no longer on the Giants and he doesnt seem to know that

He doesnt seem to be aware that the Giants traded for Zeitler either



Flowers was on the team last year and Zeitler wasnít which might explain this, no?


He had a whole section on what to do next. If you are going to analyze him and point to th OL, do you not also need to look at later on when the OL changes?

Flowers played just 5 games for the Giants last year. What about the other 11?
RE: RE: This guy didnt do his homework  
Diver_Down : 3/23/2019 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14354292 Strip-Sack said:
Quote:
In comment 14354276 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Ereck Flowers is no longer on the Giants and he doesnt seem to know that

He doesnt seem to be aware that the Giants traded for Zeitler either



Flowers was on the team last year and Zeitler wasnít which might explain this, no?


I know the focus of the podcast wasn't exclusively on the Giants, but in some of his examples on the awful OL, it was Omameh utterly useless. It would be interesting to see a more thorough review of the OL throughout the season. Because even though we all know Flowers/Omameh were horrendous, it would be interesting to compare the incremental improvement of Wheeler/Brown. We have since upgraded RG with Zeitler. The next gaping hole is upgrading RT.
RE: RE: RE: This guy didnt do his homework  
Strip-Sack : 3/23/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14354299 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14354292 Strip-Sack said:


Quote:


In comment 14354276 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Ereck Flowers is no longer on the Giants and he doesnt seem to know that

He doesnt seem to be aware that the Giants traded for Zeitler either



Flowers was on the team last year and Zeitler wasnít which might explain this, no?



He had a whole section on what to do next. If you are going to analyze him and point to th OL, do you not also need to look at later on when the OL changes?

Flowers played just 5 games for the Giants last year. What about the other 11?


All he said was Flowers sucks, no need to qualify it with games played....not mentioning the current free agent addition is no big deal IMO.
The guy suggests using the 6 pick on OL  
twostepgiants : 3/23/2019 1:48 pm : link
Which isnít a bad suggestion but his first stated reason as to why is that Ereck Flowers sucks.
.  
threeofakind33 : 3/23/2019 1:52 pm : link
Yes, he was our starting tackle for part of the year. He was saying our tackles sucked. They did. We still need more help on the OL. If one of our top three picks isnít used on an OL, we have failed.
Seems like people who actually KNOW football  
David B. : 3/23/2019 1:52 pm : link
at the Xs and Os level. Like this guy and Gettleman.

Come to that same conclusion about Eli.
the Video is really good and informative  
chuckydee9 : 3/23/2019 1:54 pm : link
but it just shows examples.. I am not sure he reviewed the entirety of the games.. for example he mentions that Eli is very safe with the Ball except when he is throwing to OBJ.. if this were true then the number would play out.. More interceptions, lower Passer rating lower completion % when throwing to OBJ vs other Pass catchers.. however we know this is not true or even remotely true.. Eli is a bottom 5 QB when throwing to everyone outside of OBJ over the past few years.. when throwing to OBJ he is above average QB.. So yes you can see the example of the eagles games play right before the half and say "look Eli just doesn't play it safe when throwing to OBJ but otherwise he is fine".. But thats just not true.. his efficiency and overall numbers are much worse when throwing to other players.. Also while he points out 2 plays where OBJ isn't happy after the pass.. but thats it.. if it was really distraction then media won't leave it alone.. from all accounts of people at the stadium OBJ wasn't a distraction on the sidelines.. outside of the Kicking Net thing..
twostep hates Eli  
eric2425ny : 3/23/2019 1:56 pm : link
At this point in his career, he apparently is the rot with this team. Any analysis that makes Eli look not to blame in any fashion is going to be treated as blasphemy.
Here's my bottom line on Eli Manning...  
M.S. : 3/23/2019 1:57 pm : link

...we're stuck with him, until we're not.
RE: Didn't have time to watch the whole thing yet...  
Scuzzlebutt : 3/23/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14354263 Tesla said:
Quote:
but for anyone (like our GM) arguing that Eli hasn't last any arm strength, or that he can "make all the throws," watch that INT on the deep out vs. the Titans. Eli's got an open receiver but the ball just floats and takes forever to get out there, leading to the INT.

I'm not saying that Eli doesn't have enough arm strength left to play QB, but I think we need to be honest that he's lost quite a bit off his FB and struggles to get the ball downfield with velocity (especially outside the hashmarks). Which, by the way, is not saying Eli doesn't have the arm strength to throw a deep ball. He does, but the ball is going to float.


So out of that entire breakdown your one takeaway is that Eli made a bad throw on a deep out? Talk about cherry picking.
yes he screwed up in not knowing that flowers was cut  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/23/2019 2:08 pm : link
but, he did say that he watched all of the Giant games and he started by believing the media hype. When he watched objectively he changed his mind about Eli. He thinks that Eli can still play and make all the throws.

I thought the stuff about OBJ was pretty interesting. It may have a lot to do with why jt said that Eli wasn't exactly crying in his beer when he was traded...

That doesn't change the fact that sometime in the next year (or two) the Giants will be moving on to another QB. So the Giants have to get the next guy in place sooner rather than later.
RE: yes he screwed up in not knowing that flowers was cut  
eric2425ny : 3/23/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14354334 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
but, he did say that he watched all of the Giant games and he started by believing the media hype. When he watched objectively he changed his mind about Eli. He thinks that Eli can still play and make all the throws.

I thought the stuff about OBJ was pretty interesting. It may have a lot to do with why jt said that Eli wasn't exactly crying in his beer when he was traded...

That doesn't change the fact that sometime in the next year (or two) the Giants will be moving on to another QB. So the Giants have to get the next guy in place sooner rather than later.


Eli has not been able to handle guys like OBJ and Shockey in his career. Guys that are loud and demand the ball all the time. He has had more success with more team first guys like Toomer, Nicks, etc. Burress was not exactly soft spoken, but he wasnít as demonstrative on the field if he wasnít getting the ball.
RE: twostep hates Eli  
twostepgiants : 3/23/2019 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14354320 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
At this point in his career, he apparently is the rot with this team. Any analysis that makes Eli look not to blame in any fashion is going to be treated as blasphemy.


I do not hate Eli, he is my all time favorite player, nor do I want to make someone elseís thread about my opinion. I did not criticize his analysis of Eli and the throws he makes, etc.

But whatever my opinion on that, it doesnít make me wrong about this.

He doesnít appear to know basic facts about the Giants whom he is analyzing. Ereck Flowers is long gone and we have added a major upgrade on the OL.

Suggesting we use the 6 pick on OL because Flowers stinks and failing to mention that we have made a major change to the OL makes me question his preparation. Maybe we should use the 6 on OL but itís not because of Flowers,

He also recommends trading for Rosen, which I agree with, but how seriously can I weigh his judgement with the above stated problem.
RE: It isn't a groundbreaking the revelation  
Klaatu : 3/23/2019 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14354273 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
that our OL sucked last year. But it was nice to hear someone who is independent thinking acknowledge that the problem wasn't Eli or OBJ, but the OL.

We have Zeitler who is a clear upgrade at RG, but we still have a gaping hole at RT. That hole isn't going to be filled by a retread with a bad back. Dave isn't going to wait until the later rounds to address it. We will be taking an OT in the first 3 picks.


You're probably right, but it bugs me because it reminds me of 2013, when the Giants failed to find a RT in free agency and then drafted Justin Pugh in the 1st Round to fill that hole...instead of drafting the guy I wanted them to draft - Tyler Eifert.
RE: Didn't have time to watch the whole thing yet...  
dannyduffle : 3/23/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14354263 Tesla said:
Quote:
but for anyone (like our GM) arguing that Eli hasn't last any arm strength, or that he can "make all the throws," watch that INT on the deep out vs. the Titans. Eli's got an open receiver but the ball just floats and takes forever to get out there, leading to the INT.

I'm not saying that Eli doesn't have enough arm strength left to play QB, but I think we need to be honest that he's lost quite a bit off his FB and struggles to get the ball downfield with velocity (especially outside the hashmarks). Which, by the way, is not saying Eli doesn't have the arm strength to throw a deep ball. He does, but the ball is going to float.


Thatís one play in a horrendous weather game. Even if it was bright and sunny, any QB can throw a crappy ball at any moment. Put together a string of samples from last season that donít have a lineman about to take his head off, and then you have some evidence to support your argument. With one play example, you do not.
Really Good  
Rong5611 : 3/23/2019 3:19 pm : link
Guy has talent. I subscribed to his channel.

His insight made sense to me. Have to go back and watch the Will Grier stuff, see what he thinks.

Thanks for posting.
I Did like the video  
Doomster : 3/23/2019 3:21 pm : link
of our best OLman, Halapio, with his arms outstretched blocking no one, as the Dallas DE stunted up the middle...
RE: I Did like the video  
eric2425ny : 3/23/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14354420 Doomster said:
Quote:
of our best OLman, Halapio, with his arms outstretched blocking no one, as the Dallas DE stunted up the middle...


Lol, letís hope we draft a new Center.
RE: yes he screwed up in not knowing that flowers was cut  
Diver_Down : 3/23/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14354334 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
but, he did say that he watched all of the Giant games and he started by believing the media hype. When he watched objectively he changed his mind about Eli. He thinks that Eli can still play and make all the throws.

I thought the stuff about OBJ was pretty interesting. It may have a lot to do with why jt said that Eli wasn't exactly crying in his beer when he was traded...


It also supports the insinuation that OBJ would not be the best player for a new QB. If Eli with his 2 pelts on the wall and 15 years in the league seems to cater to OBJ by forcing throws, what would a rookie be compelled to do?
RE: the Video is really good and informative  
USAF NYG Fan : 3/23/2019 3:27 pm : link
In comment 14354319 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
but it just shows examples.. I am not sure he reviewed the entirety of the games.. for example he mentions that Eli is very safe with the Ball except when he is throwing to OBJ.. if this were true then the number would play out.. More interceptions, lower Passer rating lower completion % when throwing to OBJ vs other Pass catchers.. however we know this is not true or even remotely true.. Eli is a bottom 5 QB when throwing to everyone outside of OBJ over the past few years.. when throwing to OBJ he is above average QB.. So yes you can see the example of the eagles games play right before the half and say "look Eli just doesn't play it safe when throwing to OBJ but otherwise he is fine".. But thats just not true.. his efficiency and overall numbers are much worse when throwing to other players.. Also while he points out 2 plays where OBJ isn't happy after the pass.. but thats it.. if it was really distraction then media won't leave it alone.. from all accounts of people at the stadium OBJ wasn't a distraction on the sidelines.. outside of the Kicking Net thing..


1. At 15:30 he very clearly says he did all the work and watched every Giants game from 2018.
https://youtu.be/W7l3vv82_Eg?t=930

2. Eli had a higher completion percentage with Engram, Ellison, Latimer, Simonson, and Coleman than he did with OBJ. This supports his argument of taking chances with OBJ when he should have taken the easier pass. I'm not saying any of them are better players than OBJ. I'm just saying it shows that Eli is more successful with other receivers than trying to force the ball to OBJ. Eli could instead dink and dunk his way down the field and ignore the big play to OBJ by forcing it (OBJ is almost always double covered).
https://www.fantasysp.com/target-touch-leaders/NYG/all

Actually, I'll speed this up a bit.
OBJ: 62%
Sheppard: 62%
Engram: 70%
Ellison: 71%
Latimer: 69%
Simonson: 64%
Coleman: 63%

BTW, just for grins:
Barkley: 75%
Elijhaa Penny: 89%

I'll say it again. I feel this was a very fair assessment and I think this guy really did his homework first. I think he researched the contract on Solder but didn't look into the RT very hard. He simply watched how bad the entire OL was.
Okay so he messed up on Flowers  
The 12th Man : 3/23/2019 3:28 pm : link
But was he wrong about our OL? Who cares whether it was Flowers or Wheeler they both sucked! Forget about the names watch them play. He is not wrong. If you watch and observe what he was saying he is spot on.
Several obvious thinsg but nice to see guys on them  
Torrag : 3/23/2019 3:31 pm : link
'of our best OLman, Halapio, with his arms outstretched blocking no one'...Halapio blows. He was awful.

'We will be taking an OT in the first 3 picks'...from your lips to Gods ears.

To be fair...  
Strip-Sack : 3/23/2019 3:32 pm : link
I think part of the issue with forcing some throws to OBJ is the fact that he has a ridiculous catch radius and has shown the ability to make the spectacular look routine time and time again.
RE: Okay so he messed up on Flowers  
twostepgiants : 3/23/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14354429 The 12th Man said:
Quote:
But was he wrong about our OL? Who cares whether it was Flowers or Wheeler they both sucked! Forget about the names watch them play. He is not wrong. If you watch and observe what he was saying he is spot on.


Our OL was terrible that is certainly not in dispute. But it also seems to be that our GM says he "fixed" the OL as per his end of yeAr press conference and that this was the primary reason behind the improved play in the 2nd half of the year where our defense became the problem

He places the blame on OL and Odell which is fine and accurate but we actually had 4 games last season where we had improved OL play and no Odell so shoukdnt the analysis be focused on that to prove his conclusions?
While I don't agree with everything he says, Shomler's a smart guy  
Ira : 3/23/2019 4:06 pm : link
and clearly knows more football than most of the sports media. Btw, thanks for the link to this video.
Still watching  
mrvax : 3/23/2019 4:11 pm : link
but the Eli/OBJ disconnect was a big issue.
Interesting the point about Manning throwing better  
jeff57 : 3/23/2019 4:28 pm : link
When not throwing to Beckham
I'm also warming  
mrvax : 3/23/2019 4:29 pm : link
to a trade for Rosen if the Cards really want Murray.
RE: Interesting the point about Manning throwing better  
hitdog42 : 3/23/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14354480 jeff57 said:
Quote:
When not throwing to Beckham


Teams bracket Beckham and give him as much or more attention than any wr in football- of course their is a higher percentage to others left 1 in 1
RE: RE: Okay so he messed up on Flowers  
USAF NYG Fan : 3/23/2019 5:04 pm : link
In comment 14354461 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Our OL was terrible that is certainly not in dispute. But it also seems to be that our GM says he "fixed" the OL as per his end of yeAr press conference and that this was the primary reason behind the improved play in the 2nd half of the year where our defense became the problem

He places the blame on OL and Odell which is fine and accurate but we actually had 4 games last season where we had improved OL play and no Odell so shoukdnt the analysis be focused on that to prove his conclusions?


Problem #1: Neither Gettleman, Shurmur, Eli, or any member of the NY Giants organization would or should say anything bad about anyone currently in the Giants' organization. Gettleman, Shurmer, Eli, etc may be stuck with these players to start the 2019 season. How would you play if your GM publicly called you garbage?

Problem #2: Was he suppose to base his analysis on what the GM said about the team? The last thing I care about if I'm assessing a team is what the GM said publicly about his team.

We have one poster that's complaining that he doesn't think he did a full year analysis and another saying he should have only reviewed the games when OBJ didn't play. It's illogical to do that. OBJ was on the roster, taking up salary cap space, and no other outside threat. While he sits out for "an injury", he's just a waste of cap space at that point. We all have to wait and see how they do with OBJ off the roster, off the books, and with the 1st and 3rd round picks they got from the Browns. If they turn one of those picks into a dominant RT, WR, TE (blocking/passing), etc, I think we will see far more improvement than with OBJ. However, we are not fortune tellers and we can't tell that simply by having OBJ sit out .... I mean nurse himself back to health from an injury.
Alright lets try it snother wAy  
twostepgiants : 3/23/2019 5:15 pm : link
Since we think this is great and accurate analysis of Eli; he also concludes that Rosen on film is better than Eli and the Giants should trade for him
RE: RE: Didn't have time to watch the whole thing yet...  
ron mexico : 3/23/2019 5:40 pm : link
In comment 14354288 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14354263 Tesla said:


Quote:


but for anyone (like our GM) arguing that Eli hasn't last any arm strength, or that he can "make all the throws," watch that INT on the deep out vs. the Titans. Eli's got an open receiver but the ball just floats and takes forever to get out there, leading to the INT.





You ever throw a damp ball in a downpour? Think that may have hinder it a bit?


It's never Eli's fault
I'd be interested to see him evaluate Lock  
kelsto811 : 3/23/2019 5:41 pm : link
He's become my 2nd favorite QB to Murray
RE: Alright lets try it snother wAy  
USAF NYG Fan : 3/23/2019 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14354513 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Since we think this is great and accurate analysis of Eli; he also concludes that Rosen on film is better than Eli and the Giants should trade for him

Man you are not having a good day at this are you? That's not what he said. He said "that many fans believe drafting Haskins or getting Rosen would solve all the Giants problems and that's simply not true". "He doesn't know a single QB in the NFL that could succeed behind the Giants' OL." He goes on to say that Eli is 38 and the Giants need a succession plan. He says that Rosen is better than Haskins and he's cheaper than Haskins.
https://youtu.be/W7l3vv82_Eg?t=960

He's suggesting Rosen as the best successor to Eli and I'm leaning that way myself. I'm still waiting for Sy's reviews tough.
RE: RE: Alright lets try it snother wAy  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/23/2019 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14354531 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
In comment 14354513 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Since we think this is great and accurate analysis of Eli; he also concludes that Rosen on film is better than Eli and the Giants should trade for him


Man you are not having a good day at this are you? That's not what he said. He said "that many fans believe drafting Haskins or getting Rosen would solve all the Giants problems and that's simply not true". "He doesn't know a single QB in the NFL that could succeed behind the Giants' OL." He goes on to say that Eli is 38 and the Giants need a succession plan. He says that Rosen is better than Haskins and he's cheaper than Haskins.
https://youtu.be/W7l3vv82_Eg?t=960

He's suggesting Rosen as the best successor to Eli and I'm leaning that way myself. I'm still waiting for Sy's reviews tough.


Sy has already let it be known that he thinks that Rosen is a better option than Haskins or Murray
RE: RE: RE: Alright lets try it snother wAy  
USAF NYG Fan : 3/23/2019 6:28 pm : link
In comment 14354558 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Sy has already let it be known that he thinks that Rosen is a better option than Haskins or Murray

Thanks! I must have missed that. That will change my draft board then. Not that my draft board will mean much but I like to play along.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Alright lets try it snother wAy  
Blue21 : 3/23/2019 6:39 pm : link
In comment 14354585 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
In comment 14354558 gidiefor said:


Quote:


Sy has already let it be known that he thinks that Rosen is a better option than Haskins or Murray


Thanks! I must have missed that. That will change my draft board then. Not that my draft board will mean much but I like to play along.


I believe Sy also said he'd give up the Giants 6 for him right now.
RE: RE: Alright lets try it snother wAy  
twostepgiants : 3/23/2019 6:39 pm : link
In comment 14354531 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
In comment 14354513 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Since we think this is great and accurate analysis of Eli; he also concludes that Rosen on film is better than Eli and the Giants should trade for him


Man you are not having a good day at this are you? That's not what he said. He said "that many fans believe drafting Haskins or getting Rosen would solve all the Giants problems and that's simply not true". "He doesn't know a single QB in the NFL that could succeed behind the Giants' OL." He goes on to say that Eli is 38 and the Giants need a succession plan. He says that Rosen is better than Haskins and he's cheaper than Haskins.
https://youtu.be/W7l3vv82_Eg?t=960

He's suggesting Rosen as the best successor to Eli and I'm leaning that way myself. I'm still waiting for Sy's reviews tough.


And on that piece I agree with him. I doubt there is a single person that believes getting a new QB can solve all of the Giants problems. Most of us believe though that the Giants need a QB to rebuild though.
You would think anyone...  
Johnny5 : 3/23/2019 6:40 pm : link
... with eyes would come to similar conclusions. But for some reason, even from posters I respect much of their football postings, they just don't see it. It's really bizarre.
How was Odell and Eli in the prior years?  
giantstock : 3/23/2019 9:11 pm : link
Were they similarly ineffective?
My whole conclusion is this.  
DonnieD89 : 3/23/2019 10:04 pm : link
If Murray is to be drafted by the Cardinals. Giants will not be owning pick #37 before the draft and they will be taking an edge and OT at pick #6 and #17. I do not think they will give up higher than #37. I also agree with the critic that Dillard should be a target for Giants either a #6 or #17, depending who is available at #6 (ie Allen, Q Williams or Bosa). Knowing that the Giants have Rosen for #37, they could trade back with the Broncos at #10 or Dolphins at #13, who may want Haskins or Lock, and take a player like Dillard and Burns with the first 2 picks and get another 2nd round pick in return.
RE: My whole conclusion is this.  
USAF NYG Fan : 3/24/2019 7:21 am : link
In comment 14354756 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
If Murray is to be drafted by the Cardinals. Giants will not be owning pick #37 before the draft and they will be taking an edge and OT at pick #6 and #17. I do not think they will give up higher than #37. I also agree with the critic that Dillard should be a target for Giants either a #6 or #17, depending who is available at #6 (ie Allen, Q Williams or Bosa). Knowing that the Giants have Rosen for #37, they could trade back with the Broncos at #10 or Dolphins at #13, who may want Haskins or Lock, and take a player like Dillard and Burns with the first 2 picks and get another 2nd round pick in return.

I'm thinking something similar now. Cardinals might wait until the draft in an attempt to start a bidding war for Rosen or the #1 pick. If Arizona takes Murray there will be several teams making offers for Rosen. If Cardinals stick with Rosen, there will be teams making offers to them to go get Murray. I'd like to end up with Rosen no higher than the #17 pick but hope for giving them the 2nd rounder with a much lower round or two. I might be ok with #37 (Round 2) and #104 (4th round).

Regardless of if they get Rosen, Murray, or Haskins I expect them to sit behind Eli for a year. I don't care that Rosen already has a year as a starter. That doesn't replace what he can learn from Eli Manning. Say what you want about Eli but he's a very smart, cerebral QB. Let him pass that experience along.
RE: RE: the Video is really good and informative  
chuckydee9 : 3/24/2019 7:33 am : link
In comment 14354428 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
In comment 14354319 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


but it just shows examples.. I am not sure he reviewed the entirety of the games.. for example he mentions that Eli is very safe with the Ball except when he is throwing to OBJ.. if this were true then the number would play out.. More interceptions, lower Passer rating lower completion % when throwing to OBJ vs other Pass catchers.. however we know this is not true or even remotely true.. Eli is a bottom 5 QB when throwing to everyone outside of OBJ over the past few years.. when throwing to OBJ he is above average QB.. So yes you can see the example of the eagles games play right before the half and say "look Eli just doesn't play it safe when throwing to OBJ but otherwise he is fine".. But thats just not true.. his efficiency and overall numbers are much worse when throwing to other players.. Also while he points out 2 plays where OBJ isn't happy after the pass.. but thats it.. if it was really distraction then media won't leave it alone.. from all accounts of people at the stadium OBJ wasn't a distraction on the sidelines.. outside of the Kicking Net thing..



1. At 15:30 he very clearly says he did all the work and watched every Giants game from 2018.
https://youtu.be/W7l3vv82_Eg?t=930

2. Eli had a higher completion percentage with Engram, Ellison, Latimer, Simonson, and Coleman than he did with OBJ. This supports his argument of taking chances with OBJ when he should have taken the easier pass. I'm not saying any of them are better players than OBJ. I'm just saying it shows that Eli is more successful with other receivers than trying to force the ball to OBJ. Eli could instead dink and dunk his way down the field and ignore the big play to OBJ by forcing it (OBJ is almost always double covered).
https://www.fantasysp.com/target-touch-leaders/NYG/all

Actually, I'll speed this up a bit.
OBJ: 62%
Sheppard: 62%
Engram: 70%
Ellison: 71%
Latimer: 69%
Simonson: 64%
Coleman: 63%

BTW, just for grins:
Barkley: 75%
Elijhaa Penny: 89%

I'll say it again. I feel this was a very fair assessment and I think this guy really did his homework first. I think he researched the contract on Solder but didn't look into the RT very hard. He simply watched how bad the entire OL was.


Thanks I will take a look but looking at the completion %, it seems that the analysis is correct. Anyone know where I can find out stats throwing to each f the WR? Like Passer Rating, interceptions, Air Yards? YPA?
RE: RE: RE: the Video is really good and informative  
USAF NYG Fan : 3/24/2019 9:07 am : link
In comment 14354872 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Thanks I will take a look but looking at the completion %, it seems that the analysis is correct. Anyone know where I can find out stats throwing to each f the WR? Like Passer Rating, interceptions, Air Yards? YPA?

Funny because I was just looking for the same thing. I couldn't find a site so I decided to youtube my way through Eli's interceptions and broke down the intended target for each one.

11 Interceptions by Eli in the 2018 season. Who was the intended target for each interception?

1. Week 1 against the Jaguars the ball was tipped at the line and I can't be sure who the intended target was.

2A. Week 5 against the Panthers on the 1st interception, OBJ was the target.
2B. On the 2nd interception, I'm honestly not sure. I think it was Sterling Sheppard because it looks like #87. It wasn't OBJ though.

3. Week 6 against the Eagles the ball was intended for TE Simonson.

4A. Week 8 against the Skins on the 1st interception, OBJ was the target.
4B. One the 2nd interception, Bennie Fowler was the target.

5. Week 11 against the Eagles, OBJ was the target.

6. Week 12 against the Bears, OBJ was the target.

7. Week 14 against the Titans, I'm honestly not sure who the target was.
Note: OBJ didn't play in this game.

8. Week 15 against the Colts, Bennie Fowler was the target
Note: OBJ didn't play in this game.

9. Week 16 against the Cowboys, Sterling Sheppard was the target.
Note OBJ didn't play in this game.

Conclusion: Of the 11 interceptions, OBJ was was the target for 4 of them. I believe Sterling Sheppard was the target for 2 of them. Fowler was the target for 2.

I'll have to agree that the throws I watched where OBJ was the target but ended up intercepted looked like Eli was trying to force the ball to him.
interesting comment on Eli's form in that video  
ron mexico : 3/24/2019 9:33 am : link
The guy said that the way he throws has to be hard on his shoulders and neck.

I wonder if that's why he always does that shoulder shrug thing after a big throw
RE: RE: RE: RE: the Video is really good and informative  
chuckydee9 : 3/24/2019 10:49 am : link
In comment 14354903 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
In comment 14354872 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


Thanks I will take a look but looking at the completion %, it seems that the analysis is correct. Anyone know where I can find out stats throwing to each f the WR? Like Passer Rating, interceptions, Air Yards? YPA?


Funny because I was just looking for the same thing. I couldn't find a site so I decided to youtube my way through Eli's interceptions and broke down the intended target for each one.

11 Interceptions by Eli in the 2018 season. Who was the intended target for each interception?

1. Week 1 against the Jaguars the ball was tipped at the line and I can't be sure who the intended target was.

2A. Week 5 against the Panthers on the 1st interception, OBJ was the target.
2B. On the 2nd interception, I'm honestly not sure. I think it was Sterling Sheppard because it looks like #87. It wasn't OBJ though.

3. Week 6 against the Eagles the ball was intended for TE Simonson.

4A. Week 8 against the Skins on the 1st interception, OBJ was the target.
4B. One the 2nd interception, Bennie Fowler was the target.

5. Week 11 against the Eagles, OBJ was the target.

6. Week 12 against the Bears, OBJ was the target.

7. Week 14 against the Titans, I'm honestly not sure who the target was.
Note: OBJ didn't play in this game.

8. Week 15 against the Colts, Bennie Fowler was the target
Note: OBJ didn't play in this game.

9. Week 16 against the Cowboys, Sterling Sheppard was the target.
Note OBJ didn't play in this game.

Conclusion: Of the 11 interceptions, OBJ was was the target for 4 of them. I believe Sterling Sheppard was the target for 2 of them. Fowler was the target for 2.

I'll have to agree that the throws I watched where OBJ was the target but ended up intercepted looked like Eli was trying to force the ball to him.


So going back to your stats about completion % for each of the main pass catchers here are their average air yards
Barkley -0.2 yds
OBJ 11.1 Yds
Shepard 10.1
Engram 5.0

Meaning if anything Eli was throwing deeper passes to OBJ obviously the deeper the pass the lower % completion so the initial stats you show don't really mean that is throwing passes to OBJ even when he is covered.. its basically a reflection of deeper passer having lower completion %... Thanks for looking up the interception.. OBJ was targeted on 4 of 11 interceptions.. which is also in line with the fact that OBJ was responsible for 32.9% of teams air yards.. while only getting 21.5% of the targets.. so again you would expect 3-5 interceptions out of all interceptions to target OBJ.. Really the number don't back the idea that he was throwing to OBJ in riskier situation other than the fact that the passes were deeper.. but it doesn't account for triple and double coverage or passes when OBJ wasn't open.. My stats can be found on rotowire..

I will have to look for passer rating breakdown with each receiver to get a better idea of the generalize statement that Eli was throwing riskier passes to OBJ vs other pass catchers.. If the only additional risk associated with OBj has to do with the depth of target then I cannot blame that on placating OBJ.. thats the design.. Someone has to run deep and catch the deep passes.. lower efficiency on deep passes is acceptable as it keeps the defense honest and helps the run game as well as the shorter routes..
OBJ Stats - ( New Window )
RE: Didn't have time to watch the whole thing yet...  
weaverpsu : 3/24/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14354263 Tesla said:
Quote:
but for anyone (like our GM) arguing that Eli hasn't last any arm strength, or that he can "make all the throws," watch that INT on the deep out vs. the Titans. Eli's got an open receiver but the ball just floats and takes forever to get out there, leading to the INT.

I'm not saying that Eli doesn't have enough arm strength left to play QB, but I think we need to be honest that he's lost quite a bit off his FB and struggles to get the ball downfield with velocity (especially outside the hashmarks). Which, by the way, is not saying Eli doesn't have the arm strength to throw a deep ball. He does, but the ball is going to float.


He most likely didn't see the safety coming from behind. The throw would have been complete based the the corner trailing. Also, good job cherry picking one play after the analysis clearly stated he CAN make all the throws.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: the Video is really good and informative  
USAF NYG Fan : 3/24/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14354982 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
So going back to your stats about completion % for each of the main pass catchers here are their average air yards
Barkley -0.2 yds
OBJ 11.1 Yds
Shepard 10.1
Engram 5.0

Meaning if anything Eli was throwing deeper passes to OBJ obviously the deeper the pass the lower % completion so the initial stats you show don't really mean that is throwing passes to OBJ even when he is covered.. its basically a reflection of deeper passer having lower completion %... Thanks for looking up the interception.. OBJ was targeted on 4 of 11 interceptions.. which is also in line with the fact that OBJ was responsible for 32.9% of teams air yards.. while only getting 21.5% of the targets.. so again you would expect 3-5 interceptions out of all interceptions to target OBJ.. Really the number don't back the idea that he was throwing to OBJ in riskier situation other than the fact that the passes were deeper.. but it doesn't account for triple and double coverage or passes when OBJ wasn't open.. My stats can be found on rotowire..

I will have to look for passer rating breakdown with each receiver to get a better idea of the generalize statement that Eli was throwing riskier passes to OBJ vs other pass catchers.. If the only additional risk associated with OBj has to do with the depth of target then I cannot blame that on placating OBJ.. thats the design.. Someone has to run deep and catch the deep passes.. lower efficiency on deep passes is acceptable as it keeps the defense honest and helps the run game as well as the shorter routes.. OBJ Stats - ( New Window )

I don't disagree with you here. I thought 4 interceptions with OBJ the target does not show anything out of the ordinary. I also agree deeper throws are riskier to begin with. However, just watching highlights of the games, it did appear to me that he Eli would try to force it OBJ. Why shouldn't he though? I've seen Eli make some bad throws to OBJ with OBJ suddenly playing defender and knocking the ball down. If you have to take a risk with a WR it seems that OBJ is the receiver to take a shot with.

I think it also hurts that the Giants didn't have an OL that could let a deep play develop. So I still feel like Eli is rushed to make a risky decision. It appeared as though every defense the Giants faced played to keep plays in front of them. It will be interesting how the Giants handle next season. I'd like to think they switch to primarily a dink and dunk passing attack. When they pass that is. They will also be a run-first offense. However, without a player like OBJ I don't think the defense will worry about a deep threat. They won't worry about keeping plays in front of them anymore. They will stack the box.
The OL play effects everything  
PatersonPlank : 3/24/2019 11:25 am : link
With 3 seconds or so to throw, Eli only gets an initial read. If its not there he has no choice bu to check it down. Then the Giants move into all short passes, because Eli doesn't have time to wait for longer passes to develop.A When defenses realize this it makes the DB play much easier. They can crowd up and just focus on stopping the short stuff, and also stuff the gaps shutting down any run. Most of those times you'd see a WR open deep weren't "real" IMO, because Eli didn't have time to wait and the D was focusing short knowing this. It is just a cycling downward spiral.
RE: RE: RE: Didn't have time to watch the whole thing yet...  
dep026 : 3/24/2019 11:37 am : link
In comment 14354524 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14354288 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14354263 Tesla said:


Quote:


but for anyone (like our GM) arguing that Eli hasn't last any arm strength, or that he can "make all the throws," watch that INT on the deep out vs. the Titans. Eli's got an open receiver but the ball just floats and takes forever to get out there, leading to the INT.





You ever throw a damp ball in a downpour? Think that may have hinder it a bit?



It's never Eli's fault


The next time you bring something to the table will be the first time.

But to you itís always Elis fault. Just a clown at this point. Can you say anything other than blaming Eli for everything? With a childish handle lie yours, I doubt your older than 14 anyways.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner