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Mara on Odell trade: was a “tough decision”

ajr2456 : 3/24/2019 8:12 pm
Quote:
John Mara said the off-field things with Odel Beckham was “a factor” but not to the point where they felt they had to get rid of him. They felt his issues were “manageable.”

Odell - ( New Window )
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RE: Did any of you read what Odell said in the interview? He felt Eli  
EricJ : 3/25/2019 7:19 am : link
In comment 14355691 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
he WAS a distraction, just thwt we didn’t get enough for him.


That is the the belief here that we did not get enough. However, the market spoke. If there were other teams willing to offer more, then they would have.

The fans here are like homeowners who are trying to sell their houses for more than market value. Always thinking it is worth more than it is. Then, after sitting there with no action they drop the price and finally sell it and STILL think the house was worth more.
RE: Did any of you read what Odell said in the interview? He felt Eli  
Johnny5 : 3/25/2019 7:20 am : link
In comment 14355691 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
wasn’t maximizing his ability, that he was making Eli look good by turning 5 yard slants into 60-yard touchdowns. He also thought the coaches didn’t do a good job countering the cover 2 scheme opponents have been running for years.

Can you argue any of those points? Our former generational WR said Eli wasn’t good enough, but the fans know better than the guy running the routes? Listen, he isn’t here because he couldn’t play nice with Eli.

At the end of the day, I am not upset over Eli, he WAS a distraction, just thwt we didn’t get enough for him. AND, I don’t begrudge Mara being sentimental and wanting to give Eli a ride into the sunset. BUT, don’t chide us for not believing in the team and how it’s being run. Does he know the records the last 2 years? Has he been in a coma since 2012? You can’t be a boss and try to be a nice guy, not hold anyone responsible and not own up to your mistakes. Same as the fans. It’s okay you want to toe the company line, but ultimately you/we are the ones rooting for a lousy team year after year.

OMG round and round and round we go. For the 80 billionth time... the point is that you cannot possibly assess with any reasonable certainty that was on Eli based on the (utter lack of) competent blocking. You do realize you need at least some modicum of time to actually A) have routes develop and B) actually have time to throw the ball? Maybe? When the blocking takes the meteoric rise to JUST MEDIOCRE (Or hey maybe even slightly better), THEN I will pass my judgement on whether this QB is specifically done or not. I mean, oh so he is so decrepit he can only throw slants now? Geezus that is just so dumb.
OR...  
Johnny5 : 3/25/2019 7:22 am : link
... what Joey said... lol.
RE: RE: Enough with the  
Diver_Down : 3/25/2019 7:23 am : link
In comment 14355719 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14355558 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


If it was so "harmless", then why did the team fine him and make him apologize to the team? He did the interview without telling anyone in the organization that he was doing it. It was all about him and that is how it will always be with him.



Do the Giants have a policy where every interview has to be run by the team and approved?


Shouldn't it be a professional courtesy when the content pertains to the team and their players? If Odell was giving an interview based on his preference for shitty pizza with shitty rappers, then no one would care. The interview was a surprise to the team. Even after it was taped and before it aired, Odell had the opportunity to make the team aware. Instead, he knew the content and chose the blind-side option.

Oh and pursuant to my 7:03 post?  
Big Blue '56 : 3/25/2019 7:26 am : link
Despite all that transpired, the guy that is “toast” had a pretty darn good year at QB..
It is tough reading half the  
section125 : 3/25/2019 7:35 am : link
drivil posted. Some of you are in love with your own narrative. Like you actually know better than the owners or the GM = guys that have been involved with football their entire lives (well not Tisch) while we, the general public, are involved with the tuner on our TV or radio.
Of course Mara will have some smoke about Beckham - he is not going to trash him or throw him under the bus. Of course he will not trash Eli - hell half of BBI shit the bed when Eli benched himself, yes himself.
As far as the trade - how many teams had the money to even think about the trade? How many of those teams needed a WR? How many of those teams were willing to give up a decent haul to take Beckham? How many of you realize that it takes two to tango and that the other team is not just going to completely concede to all of DGs demands. Like arc - I didn't like trading Beckham and almost nothing bothered me except the dog pissing incident. I seriously doubt Beckham told Shurmur to fuck off.

If you want to spend your life trashing Mara? Your right, your privilege. You don't like what he has done? Neither do I sometimes. Fine. But don't act like you know better, because you do not. Think it was an awful trade or they should have traded him to another team offering more? Well go find that other team and let us know who it was. The 49ers? They did not want to trade #2 - end of deal. Bills, they were not even interested. Who else was there? Patriots? You think Belichick was taking on a contract bigger than Brady's and giving up his #1, #2 and more? I think the writers would have known by now - bet Glazer would have been all over it.
He isn't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/25/2019 8:26 am : link
blind nor stupid. He's just one of many posters who can't get over the fact we didn't draft a QB last year:
Quote:
Frankly, I am not sure which one it is with you any more, you are either blind or stupid


the effect on the board? Daily takes about how we are "stuck" with a shitty QB while several teams upgraded the position last year. You know, guys like Buffalo and Arizona who both already have whispers about not being happy with the guys they picked!!

He isn't blind nor stupid - but pretty fucking insufferable.
Quoted from DefenderDawg's Monday Reading -  
Diver_Down : 3/25/2019 8:27 am : link
Quote:
Mara: “I had very mixed feelings about it because I happen to like the kid. I really do. I have two grandsons who sobbed uncontrollably when I called to tell them that we had traded him … one of whom is still not talking to me. They both said they’re going to be Browns fans this year. So that’s the effect he has. They’re 7 years old and they think he’s a god. I liked him a lot personally. He’s different. He’s not a bad kid.
“Dave [Gettleman, the Giants’ GM] and I had a long talk about it. When the Browns made their final offer, I wanted to know—You and Pat [Shurmur] both want to do this? You’re sure? You’re absolutely sure? I still said I had to think about it. Then I called him back a little bit later.”
FMIA: I thought you had to be thinking of Lawrence Taylor, and if your organization could put up with Taylor, surely you could put up with Beckham.
Mara: “There’s an old Bill Parcells quote: ‘Lawrence Taylor is the pilot of a burning plane. ‘ Somehow he managed to keep the plane from crashing. But we got … we had a lot of holes to fill. Getting the first-round pick, getting the third-round pick, getting our fourth back from the [Kevin Zeitler] trade. You can argue whether it’s comparable value. I felt better about that than about previous offers that had come down the pike. And he was going out of the conference! Out of the division, so it was a reluctant OK.
“Of course we want to keep our best players. Listen, I had many conversations with him. He had the stupid penalty in Philadelphia where he lifted his leg in the end zone [in a faux dog-urination scene] and I brought him into my office and I showed him the front page of the New York Post and said, ‘Is this what you want? Is this what you want your legacy to be?’ He looked at me and he said, ‘Well you know, I just don’t understand the celebration rules.’ I said, ‘Well you know you can’t do that!’ “
FMIA: Sounds like you’re pretty motivated as a team to build your lines back up in the draft.
Mara: “I don’t know what we’re going to do—whether we’ll take a quarterback or not. My response is show me what the grades are. But don’t force a pick. The worst thing we can do is force it. If we have to wait another year, I don’t want to have to do that, but if we have to, I’d rather do that than force it. This thing now about everyone asking, ‘What’s the plan? What’s the plan?’ We’re trying to build the roster! What do you want me to tell you? ‘Yeah, we’re gonna take a quarterback at six? The plan is to build the roster!’ It’s exasperating. But I learned a long time ago that you’re defenseless when you lose. There’s nothing you can say. We’ve got to build our team, and we’ve got to win.”


Instead of some of the short quips from twitter, the above provides context to what is being asked/answered.
This is Odell Beckham in a nutshell  
Chris684 : 3/25/2019 8:33 am : link
and it's why he pisses so many people off. The dog pissing thing was so much more than the celebration, he has a total lack of self awareness.

Listen, I had many conversations with him. He had the stupid penalty in Philadelphia where he lifted his leg in the end zone [in a faux dog-urination scene] and I brought him into my office and I showed him the front page of the New York Post and said, ‘Is this what you want? Is this what you want your legacy to be?’ He looked at me and he said, ‘Well you know, I just don’t understand the celebration rules.’ I said, ‘Well you know you can’t do that!’ “

Mara calls him in to talk about it point blank and he says "I don't understand the rules"?

Hopefully for Cleveland's sake Odell wakes up.
RE: .  
Alex_Webster : 3/25/2019 8:59 am : link
In comment 14355527 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I had always hoped it would work out with Odell here - the talent is tremendous, undeniable, and not something you often have the luxury of having on your roster.

Most of the stuff on the side never really bugged me. The TD celebrations were fine if they weren't resulting in penalties.. the kicking net stuff was stupid, but I didn't think much of it.


I agree, and I never cared about off the field stuff especially interviews. This team needed value spread out and this was an opportunity to get there.Even if the Browns with the next 3 Super bowls. It was not happening here if he stayed. Sometimes you just have to move on and clean up your own house.

The ESPN thing was where I kind of started to feel like he was just going to be who he is. I didn't mindlessly defend that - I did say it wasn't a good look and had wished he would have had the mind to realize that before he allowed it to happen. Nothing good comes out of something like that.

I can't speak to the veracity of the other things that came out around the time of the trade. The telling Shurmur to "go fuck" himself or if he was/wasn't physically able to play at the end of the year and elected not to. If those things are true, those are the types of things that do bug me more as a fan.

The timing of those stories made me wonder if they were more designed to get fans on the side of management.. but it's not hard to believe them.

At the end of the day, we're in the position we're in. We have a lot of holes here and trading him allows us to get younger, cheaper and improve elsewhere. We know Peppers can play. Now we have two picks in the first 3 rounds to add two more young players to help.

I thought I'd be more opposed than I actually was when all was said and done. We got a good enough return where I don't feel like we just gave him away. It's also not overblown to cite the games missed and wonder if the durability will be there going forward.

If Beckham goes out there in 2019, gets hurt again, and misses a chunk of games, where does that leave his value?

Just a hunch, but I think down the road, when the smoke clears, it'll wind up having been a smart decision. And that's coming from someone who was a really big fan of the player and was on his side much more often than not.
RE: RE: Did any of you read what Odell said in the interview? He felt Eli  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/25/2019 9:40 am : link
In comment 14355723 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
For the 80 billionth time... the point is that you cannot possibly assess with any reasonable certainty that was on Eli based on the (utter lack of) competent blocking. You do realize you need at least some modicum of time to actually A) have routes develop and B) actually have time to throw the ball? Maybe? When the blocking takes the meteoric rise to JUST MEDIOCRE (Or hey maybe even slightly better), THEN I will pass my judgement on whether this QB is specifically done or not. I mean, oh so he is so decrepit he can only throw slants now? Geezus that is just so dumb.



It's been mediocre. The excuse-making is in the insistence that he "can't be evaluated" until he's got 1 or 2 pro bowlers in front of him.

Don't overdramatize it for effect. He wasn't getting David Carr'd last year. He's played behind worse offensive lines. 2013 and 2017 were pathetic.
He got sacked 47 times.  
Britt in VA : 3/25/2019 9:42 am : link
31 of those were in the first 8 games.

I wouldn't call that overdramatizing.
The overdramatizing....  
Britt in VA : 3/25/2019 9:44 am : link
is the insistence that he needs multiple pro bowlers in front of him to be successful.

He just needs average.
It can't be denied that once the line stabalized....  
Britt in VA : 3/25/2019 9:45 am : link
after the bye, things improved.

Now you can write that off as playing "backup QB's" or whatever, but the line stabalized and the offense started scoring.
RE: RE: it's actually  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/25/2019 9:45 am : link
In comment 14355644 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 14355534 MookGiants said:


Quote:


frightening that anyone believes Eli can still play at a high level consistently.

How many more years do they need to see before they realize that age has caught up to him just like it does 95% of other QBs. Including his brother.

People act like the Eli is finished guys are taking shots at him. Why is it so wrong to believe a 38 year old is finished being a good player in this league? There have been plenty of guys who have had a better career than Eli that were finished by that age.


It's also frightening that people like you completely write him off when he not only has one of the top 3 worst OL in the league until halfway through last year (and then it became just sub par) but he is also on his second new offensive system in 3 years. the truth is it lies somewhere in between. And we won't know how much in between until we actually take the hyper jump to mediocre + blocking and another year in Shurmur's system. These things matter, believe it or not. The wrong person left the building when Coughlin left. It was probably time for him to go, but so was it time for Jerry Rees and Marc Ross, the two culprits of this shit show. But keep blaming Eli.

The strong contingent of bbi Eli haters are in all likelihood Reese supporter remnants (I dont think there's any Ross supporters) who lives in a fantasy world where our can't find a running game for 10 years roster wasn't complete crap.
RE: He isn't..  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/25/2019 9:50 am : link
In comment 14355750 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
blind nor stupid. He's just one of many posters who can't get over the fact we didn't draft a QB last year:


Quote:


Frankly, I am not sure which one it is with you any more, you are either blind or stupid



the effect on the board? Daily takes about how we are "stuck" with a shitty QB while several teams upgraded the position last year. You know, guys like Buffalo and Arizona who both already have whispers about not being happy with the guys they picked!!

He isn't blind nor stupid - but pretty fucking insufferable.

Don't forget Joe Beningo and his rabid bbi Jets fans and their saviour Darnold, who is so far shaping up to be Andy Dalton-esque, with less toughness faux injuries.
Ironically, I've always found  
Chris684 : 3/25/2019 9:51 am : link
the same people who hero-worship Beckham, are the same ones who really don't like Eli.

It's a position that I really could never understand a NYG fan getting to.

Sigh  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/25/2019 9:52 am : link

ProFootballTalk
‏Verified account @ProFootballTalk

Odell Beckham tweets he "woke up feeling dangerous"
RE: I have always like John Mara as an owner  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/25/2019 9:55 am : link
In comment 14355718 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Still do. I don’t believe for a second he is compromising team success out of loyalty to Eli. His first loyalties have always been first and foremost his New York Giants.

He was proven wrong in his belief the Giants could contend with Eli the past two seasons, but all this speculation that there was a mandate from him regarding Eli, is just that, speculation.

When you don’t like someone no matter what he says you will spin it to fit your narrative, think there is a lot of that going on here.

Yes pure speculation by dummies, but there is a defacto mandate by the fans, Eli is NYs greatest recent sports figure behind Jeter. Let's say this, I as a Yankees fan disliked Jeter, and especially his old selfish ass continuing to play SS, but I knew there was nothing to do about it. Imagine if Jeter was replaced by Geno Smith lol?
RE: RE: Did any of you read what Odell said in the interview? He felt Eli  
Gettledogman : 3/25/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14355704 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 14355691 Jim in Hoboken said:
[quote] wasn’t maximizing his ability, that he was making Eli look good by turning 5 yard slants into 60-yard touchdowns. He also thought the coaches didn’t do a good job countering the cover 2 scheme opponents have been running for years.

Can you argue any of those points? Our former generational WR said Eli wasn’t good enough, but the fans know better than the guy running the routes? Listen, he isn’t here because he couldn’t play nice with Eli.

This!


Is baloney.. I read and watched the interview.. He stated repeatedly the line cant give him time and its frustrating because he wants to go down field more. Both are fair assessments. I understand but Odell is a baby.. He will do really well with Browns until he burns out or implodes. Build the lines WR are not worth the trouble. Even Tyreek Hill.
I agree....  
Doomster : 3/25/2019 10:47 am : link
Doesn’t matter
WillVAB : 3/24/2019 10:14 pm : link : reply
This decision will be judged by what Odell does in CLE and what DG gets out of this draft. The Giants will be praised or crucified based on this alone.

We can go back and forth on how good or how bad the deal was, only time will tell.....

As for OBj I am surprised by the number of BBI'ers that are giving more weight to that "interview", than the fact that OBj basically sat himself down for the last 4 games.....he was hurt in the Philly game, the last play.....he played the following week.....there was no indication after that game, that there was a problem, until later in the week....

Re watching highlights of games of the season, Eli left a lot of plays on the field....yes there were times when he "forced" passes to OBj....but also, there quite a few plays where Eli did not look in his direction and he was open, or he just did not throw a good pass to him....

And OBj? He is not without blame either....he made a lot of mistakes this year, especially in that Panther game....

There are a lot of comparisons to LT.....Did the Giants look the other way on many occasion with him? Yes....but LT came to play every game....and his faults were personal, not an open display like OBj was....

I was looking forward to a season of OBj and SB, with a revamped OL......I thought this combination was going to be spectacular if they could avoid the injury bug.....now we will never know.....

But what we do know is, that DG was blowing smoke up our asses, when he said he would never trade OBj, UNLESS HE GOT AN OFFER HE COULDN'T REFUSE! That trade was not one of those offers.....
RE: Sigh  
ZogZerg : 3/25/2019 10:51 am : link
In comment 14355836 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:

ProFootballTalk
‏Verified account @ProFootballTalk

Odell Beckham tweets he "woke up feeling dangerous"


That didn't last long.
LOL
RE: Sigh  
GiantsRage2007 : 3/25/2019 11:09 am : link
In comment 14355836 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:

ProFootballTalk
‏Verified account @ProFootballTalk

Odell Beckham tweets he "woke up feeling dangerous"


Looks like he was posting all weekend.... so much for his self imposed 'going dark' on social media...

Sorry, not sorry... not gonna miss all the 'look at me' shit
RE: RE: Enough with the  
Bill L : 3/25/2019 11:26 am : link
In comment 14355719 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14355558 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


If it was so "harmless", then why did the team fine him and make him apologize to the team? He did the interview without telling anyone in the organization that he was doing it. It was all about him and that is how it will always be with him.



Do the Giants have a policy where every interview has to be run by the team and approved?


If they don't then they are incompetent as a business org. Every business and every team*should* have such a policy.
RE: Did any of you read what Odell said in the interview? He felt Eli  
Bill L : 3/25/2019 11:35 am : link
In comment 14355691 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
wasn’t maximizing his ability, that he was making Eli look good by turning 5 yard slants into 60-yard touchdowns. He also thought the coaches didn’t do a good job countering the cover 2 scheme opponents have been running for years.

Can you argue any of those points? Our former generational WR said Eli wasn’t good enough, but the fans know better than the guy running the routes? Listen, he isn’t here because he couldn’t play nice with Eli.

At the end of the day, I am not upset over Eli, he WAS a distraction, just thwt we didn’t get enough for him. AND, I don’t begrudge Mara being sentimental and wanting to give Eli a ride into the sunset. BUT, don’t chide us for not believing in the team and how it’s being run. Does he know the records the last 2 years? Has he been in a coma since 2012? You can’t be a boss and try to be a nice guy, not hold anyone responsible and not own up to your mistakes. Same as the fans. It’s okay you want to toe the company line, but ultimately you/we are the ones rooting for a lousy team year after year.


I think one counterargument is that by every account I've read, he really really liked Jerry Reese and he really really liked Tom Coughlin. But one of them he fired within t the season, which has got to be about the most humiliating thing you could do to a person. And, in the years he fired both, he gave locker room talks and press conferences where he was visually pissed about the records.

So, I would gather he really does, despite your disbelief, know the team's records over, not only the last 2 seasons, but every single one since he's been alive. He's lived and had experience with tough breakups, and has always come out of them as a business man, doing what businessmen do.
I really wonder how often  
Dnew15 : 3/25/2019 11:46 am : link
an order comes directly from Giants ownership?

I mean a straight up "DG - I done dealing with the Odell stuff - deal him." or "Eli is the cornerstone of this franchise - don't sit him ever head coach." or "go sign a WR to replace OBJ."



RE: RE: RE: Did any of you read what Odell said in the interview? He felt Eli  
Johnny5 : 3/25/2019 11:50 am : link
In comment 14355820 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14355723 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


For the 80 billionth time... the point is that you cannot possibly assess with any reasonable certainty that was on Eli based on the (utter lack of) competent blocking. You do realize you need at least some modicum of time to actually A) have routes develop and B) actually have time to throw the ball? Maybe? When the blocking takes the meteoric rise to JUST MEDIOCRE (Or hey maybe even slightly better), THEN I will pass my judgement on whether this QB is specifically done or not. I mean, oh so he is so decrepit he can only throw slants now? Geezus that is just so dumb.




It's been mediocre. The excuse-making is in the insistence that he "can't be evaluated" until he's got 1 or 2 pro bowlers in front of him.

Don't overdramatize it for effect. He wasn't getting David Carr'd last year. He's played behind worse offensive lines. 2013 and 2017 were pathetic.

It has been mediocre? When? In 2011? Last year before the bye Eli was sacked 30 plus times... AND the average first contact from defenses on our RBs was .17 yards on average. (That's 6 INCHES on first contact). Explain to me on what planet that qualifies as "mediocre".
hmmm  
fanofthejets : 3/25/2019 11:54 am : link
Giants really aren't on the same page it seems. I'm sure he was perhaps onboard when it happened but I sense he's probably have regrets about the Beckham trade
With the benefit of a couple of weeks hindsight  
Matt in SGS : 3/25/2019 11:58 am : link
I think we all agree on one point. We can't judge the trade until after the draft. Let's see what that first and 3rd round pick produce. I happen to believe that Peppers will actually end up being better than Collins, particularly from a cost perspective it's not close.

But I think the Giants pulled the trigger on an Odell trade at the right time. Gettleman made a comment that I thought was a good one in his media tour last week. He said the price for putting a franchise tag on a player is 2 #1 picks and the last one to actually get it done was Sean Gilbert. Where (amazingly) the Redskins benefitted from someone else's stupid decision when the Panthers signed him and gave up 2 first rounders.

So realistically, when talking about acquiring a veteran player in a trade. The realistic asking price is a first rounder, a 2/3rd, and a player. That's a strong package to get back. I think the Giants did try to pry the 2nd overall from the Niners, but they wouldn't budge. So getting back a 1st, a 3rd (I wish they'd have gotten the better 3rd, but whatever) and Peppers (a young safety who was a first round talent) is actually a good package in reality. And I'm of the opinion the Giants will stay at 6 and draft and will use the #17 as a pivot spot to move up as another player slips past 10 and will package their other later picks to move up and grab someone.

However, all of this is predicated on the following assumption. This wasn't going to end well with Odell. Period. I think Antonio Brown opened the Giants eyes. Look at the contract that is being discussed now with Julio Jones at age 30. Odell is a volatile asset. But one which the past couple of years we've seen him go down with an ankle injury followed by a broken leg, and then the quad injury. He's a speed/shifty receiver who turns 27 this year. Considering the price tag he has now (the Giants did the negotiating for a club with the new deal) the right time to trade him was now. I was hoping to squeeze one more year out of him. But there is the litany of what ifs

- What if he gets hurt again?
- What if he looks at Brown and Jones contract and starts yelling he wants more?
- What if his last 4 game shut down was a further sign of things to come?
- What if he no longer can bring back a 1st, 3rd and starter?


I think Mara is playing nice. I don't think it was that tough of a decision to trade him when you take a step back. This team will be built around Saquon and I'd be willing to bet anyone on here a hamburger that they will draft a QB so their transition plan is in place for 2020 with Eli acting as mentor in 2019.

Jt mentioned the Giants didn't want Odell around a young QB for a variety of reasons. I think all signs point to getting a QB now and by 2020 you have your new Giants offense build around new QB and Saquon and Engram with some veteran leadership in Tate and whomever else they get with their $100M+ in cap room.

The Giants got the most out of Odell's value before it dropped and be in position to help speed up the rebuild.
RE: RE: He isn't..  
fanofthejets : 3/25/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14355832 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14355750 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


blind nor stupid. He's just one of many posters who can't get over the fact we didn't draft a QB last year:


Quote:


Frankly, I am not sure which one it is with you any more, you are either blind or stupid



the effect on the board? Daily takes about how we are "stuck" with a shitty QB while several teams upgraded the position last year. You know, guys like Buffalo and Arizona who both already have whispers about not being happy with the guys they picked!!

He isn't blind nor stupid - but pretty fucking insufferable.


Don't forget Joe Beningo and his rabid bbi Jets fans and their saviour Darnold, who is so far shaping up to be Andy Dalton-esque, with less toughness faux injuries.


Your fervent hatred of Darnold belies your absolute terror that he will be an All-Pro QB. You know this. It's going to be a fun ride.
RE: RE: .  
RobCarpenter : 3/25/2019 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14355549 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14355503 Anakim said:


Quote:


NFL Update
‏@MySportsUpdate

Speaking to reporters at the owner meetings, #Giants owner John Mara says one of his grandchildren has not spoken to him since he approved the Odell Beckham Jr trade.

Does the grandson have power of attorney yet?


Is it the grandson who was crying uncontrollably? Over OBJ??? And I thought overreaction about the Giants was bad on BBI.
RE: RE: RE: .  
GiantsRage2007 : 3/25/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14356082 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 14355549 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 14355503 Anakim said:


Quote:


NFL Update
‏@MySportsUpdate

Speaking to reporters at the owner meetings, #Giants owner John Mara says one of his grandchildren has not spoken to him since he approved the Odell Beckham Jr trade.

Does the grandson have power of attorney yet?



Is it the grandson who was crying uncontrollably? Over OBJ??? And I thought overreaction about the Giants was bad on BBI.


Well.. they are 7, so...
Great post ! Gives a bit more perspective on OBJ  
Bluesbreaker : 3/25/2019 12:53 pm : link
There is no doubting his talent and I don't think that
any of us on this board or in the NFL saw OBJ coming he
took the league by storm culminating with the most ridiculous
catch on MNF vs the Cowboys .
Now he has had some bad luck with injuries both times very questionable shots with the Browns and the Eagles add
in the slow start to his rookie year with a hamstring .
The antics on the field the BS with Norman most of which I had no problem with . The thing that bothers me is some of the company he keeps the dumb trip to hang with Bieber and
people like Lil Wayne Iggy WTF ever is her name then the hotel room scene are red flags to me . I hope he succeeds
and has a great career but you get the sense at times that
something very negative could happen when you run with the wrong crowd and honestly I do't want him anywhere near
Barkley . I never saw the interview but I agree with the assessment it was in bad taste after a monster payday !
RE: No matter how you slice it...  
Thegratefulhead : 3/25/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14355674 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
We gave up one of the most valuable non-QB players in the entire league for an unknown #17 overall rookie pick and an average starting safety. The off-the-field and the locker room stuff had a lot to do with it, and by that I really mean the "locker room stuff" AS MARA PERCEIVED IT. I really believe the players loved Odell and admired his work ethic and desire to win, but Mara saw him as insubordinate, crass, and self-entitled due to his old-school mentality about how professional football players are "supposed" to act.
This is horse shit. It is an old school mentality. If you make someone the highest paid receiver in the history of the NFL and a couple months later he goes on ESPN and says the things he said he doesn't want to be here anymore and you get him the fuck out. You don't send them to the place that he wants to be like LA you send them to fucking Cleveland or Buffalo. He is a piece of shit for doing that interview and saying the things he said. Goodbye glad he's gone.
RE: RE: No matter how you slice it...  
Britt in VA : 3/25/2019 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14356177 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14355674 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


We gave up one of the most valuable non-QB players in the entire league for an unknown #17 overall rookie pick and an average starting safety. The off-the-field and the locker room stuff had a lot to do with it, and by that I really mean the "locker room stuff" AS MARA PERCEIVED IT. I really believe the players loved Odell and admired his work ethic and desire to win, but Mara saw him as insubordinate, crass, and self-entitled due to his old-school mentality about how professional football players are "supposed" to act.

This is horse shit. It is an old school mentality. If you make someone the highest paid receiver in the history of the NFL and a couple months later he goes on ESPN and says the things he said he doesn't want to be here anymore and you get him the fuck out. You don't send them to the place that he wants to be like LA you send them to fucking Cleveland or Buffalo. He is a piece of shit for doing that interview and saying the things he said. Goodbye glad he's gone.


I'm starting to like the way you're thinking, lately.
Matt in SGS  
fkap : 3/25/2019 1:13 pm : link
Great post.
It's more or less what I thought about 10 minutes after reading about the trade. First a WTF? then a calm down and look at it rationally. It helped that I didn't think that mega haul so many were dreaming of was realistic. I figured the Giants just wouldn't trade OBJ if the dream haul wasn't there. To me, it was more the shock that they actually traded him.

But, overall, I think it was a good, realistic haul at a decent time. there's no guarantee the haul would be better next year.
Odds are it would be worse.  
Britt in VA : 3/25/2019 1:13 pm : link
.
honestly, i don't think the Giants decision to part with OBJ was tough  
Gross Blau Oberst : 3/25/2019 1:25 pm : link
The tough part was getting the compensation the Giants were comfortable with.

The tougher part was the public relations end of the decision and containing the fallout.

Its not like he didn't miss 29 of 80 games  
Chip : 3/25/2019 2:00 pm : link
and the last 4 were questionable on whether he was hurt enough not to play. He was an awesome player but there is another side to this.
RE: RE: No matter how you slice it...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/25/2019 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14356177 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14355674 Leg of Theismann said:


Quote:


We gave up one of the most valuable non-QB players in the entire league for an unknown #17 overall rookie pick and an average starting safety. The off-the-field and the locker room stuff had a lot to do with it, and by that I really mean the "locker room stuff" AS MARA PERCEIVED IT. I really believe the players loved Odell and admired his work ethic and desire to win, but Mara saw him as insubordinate, crass, and self-entitled due to his old-school mentality about how professional football players are "supposed" to act.

This is horse shit. It is an old school mentality. If you make someone the highest paid receiver in the history of the NFL and a couple months later he goes on ESPN and says the things he said he doesn't want to be here anymore and you get him the fuck out. You don't send them to the place that he wants to be like LA you send them to fucking Cleveland or Buffalo. He is a piece of shit for doing that interview and saying the things he said. Goodbye glad he's gone.


The idea that they sent him somewhere out of punishment is a joke.

Punishment would be more wasted years here. He's going to a team that's won more games recently and a roster that can actually use his skills, and he'll probably be in the playoffs while we pretend the 2019 Giants actually matters.
RE: With the benefit of a couple of weeks hindsight  
HomerJones45 : 3/25/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14356051 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
I think we all agree on one point. We can't judge the trade until after the draft. Let's see what that first and 3rd round pick produce. I happen to believe that Peppers will actually end up being better than Collins, particularly from a cost perspective it's not close.

But I think the Giants pulled the trigger on an Odell trade at the right time. Gettleman made a comment that I thought was a good one in his media tour last week. He said the price for putting a franchise tag on a player is 2 #1 picks and the last one to actually get it done was Sean Gilbert. Where (amazingly) the Redskins benefitted from someone else's stupid decision when the Panthers signed him and gave up 2 first rounders.

So realistically, when talking about acquiring a veteran player in a trade. The realistic asking price is a first rounder, a 2/3rd, and a player. That's a strong package to get back. I think the Giants did try to pry the 2nd overall from the Niners, but they wouldn't budge. So getting back a 1st, a 3rd (I wish they'd have gotten the better 3rd, but whatever) and Peppers (a young safety who was a first round talent) is actually a good package in reality. And I'm of the opinion the Giants will stay at 6 and draft and will use the #17 as a pivot spot to move up as another player slips past 10 and will package their other later picks to move up and grab someone.

However, all of this is predicated on the following assumption. This wasn't going to end well with Odell. Period. I think Antonio Brown opened the Giants eyes. Look at the contract that is being discussed now with Julio Jones at age 30. Odell is a volatile asset. But one which the past couple of years we've seen him go down with an ankle injury followed by a broken leg, and then the quad injury. He's a speed/shifty receiver who turns 27 this year. Considering the price tag he has now (the Giants did the negotiating for a club with the new deal) the right time to trade him was now. I was hoping to squeeze one more year out of him. But there is the litany of what ifs

- What if he gets hurt again?
- What if he looks at Brown and Jones contract and starts yelling he wants more?
- What if his last 4 game shut down was a further sign of things to come?
- What if he no longer can bring back a 1st, 3rd and starter?


I think Mara is playing nice. I don't think it was that tough of a decision to trade him when you take a step back. This team will be built around Saquon and I'd be willing to bet anyone on here a hamburger that they will draft a QB so their transition plan is in place for 2020 with Eli acting as mentor in 2019.

Jt mentioned the Giants didn't want Odell around a young QB for a variety of reasons. I think all signs point to getting a QB now and by 2020 you have your new Giants offense build around new QB and Saquon and Engram with some veteran leadership in Tate and whomever else they get with their $100M+ in cap room.

The Giants got the most out of Odell's value before it dropped and be in position to help speed up the rebuild.
Remember all this happy talk when Eli goes back to pass on 3rd and 10 and has as his choices Shepard, Sheppard, Fowler and Coleman. You can have the 7 Blocks of Granite on the line and they won't be able to block long enough for that crew to get open.

Beckham is 27 and was under contract. If "doesn't end well" means we don't re-sign him when his contract runs out at age 31 or 32, how is that not ending well.

Jawn can sugar coat this however he wishes. Nice man, no doubt a good lawyer, but a lousy, awful, terrible GM.
I would have been fine trading him to the Eagles  
Go Terps : 3/25/2019 2:17 pm : link
Basically the equivalent of this:

This debate will go on for 10 years...  
EricJ : 3/25/2019 2:33 pm : link
When OBJ has a big day, then the people who wanted to keep him will be screaming about DG

When OBJ brings a toy fire hydrant to pee on in the end zone, then the anti OBJ people will come out.
RE: This debate will go on for 10 years...  
Johnny5 : 3/25/2019 2:36 pm : link
In comment 14356279 EricJ said:
Quote:
When OBJ has a big day, then the people who wanted to keep him will be screaming about DG

When OBJ brings a toy fire hydrant to pee on in the end zone, then the anti OBJ people will come out.

Well, Of course.
Odell’s injuries were growing concerning  
UberAlias : 3/25/2019 2:40 pm : link
I didn’t think he had quite the same explosion last year. I think it was smart to move him when they did. Can use the picks on O or D line, which is better allocation of resources, and if it helps them land their future QB, even better. How many more years will Odell play at elite level? A half a step slower and he’s just good, but not special. Odds are he won’t be the same player when next QB is ready to make a run.
This says it all  
Stan in LA : 3/25/2019 3:09 pm : link
Quote:
“Of course we want to keep our best players. Listen, I had many conversations with him. He had the stupid penalty in Philadelphia where he lifted his leg in the end zone [in a faux dog-urination scene] and I brought him into my office and I showed him the front page of the New York Post and said, ‘Is this what you want? Is this what you want your legacy to be?’ He looked at me and he said, ‘Well you know, I just don’t understand the celebration rules.’ I said, ‘Well you know you can’t do that!’


What a dumbass.
RE: RE: With the benefit of a couple of weeks hindsight  
Matt in SGS : 3/25/2019 3:23 pm : link
In comment 14356256 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 14356051 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


I think we all agree on one point. We can't judge the trade until after the draft. Let's see what that first and 3rd round pick produce. I happen to believe that Peppers will actually end up being better than Collins, particularly from a cost perspective it's not close.

But I think the Giants pulled the trigger on an Odell trade at the right time. Gettleman made a comment that I thought was a good one in his media tour last week. He said the price for putting a franchise tag on a player is 2 #1 picks and the last one to actually get it done was Sean Gilbert. Where (amazingly) the Redskins benefitted from someone else's stupid decision when the Panthers signed him and gave up 2 first rounders.

So realistically, when talking about acquiring a veteran player in a trade. The realistic asking price is a first rounder, a 2/3rd, and a player. That's a strong package to get back. I think the Giants did try to pry the 2nd overall from the Niners, but they wouldn't budge. So getting back a 1st, a 3rd (I wish they'd have gotten the better 3rd, but whatever) and Peppers (a young safety who was a first round talent) is actually a good package in reality. And I'm of the opinion the Giants will stay at 6 and draft and will use the #17 as a pivot spot to move up as another player slips past 10 and will package their other later picks to move up and grab someone.

However, all of this is predicated on the following assumption. This wasn't going to end well with Odell. Period. I think Antonio Brown opened the Giants eyes. Look at the contract that is being discussed now with Julio Jones at age 30. Odell is a volatile asset. But one which the past couple of years we've seen him go down with an ankle injury followed by a broken leg, and then the quad injury. He's a speed/shifty receiver who turns 27 this year. Considering the price tag he has now (the Giants did the negotiating for a club with the new deal) the right time to trade him was now. I was hoping to squeeze one more year out of him. But there is the litany of what ifs

- What if he gets hurt again?
- What if he looks at Brown and Jones contract and starts yelling he wants more?
- What if his last 4 game shut down was a further sign of things to come?
- What if he no longer can bring back a 1st, 3rd and starter?


I think Mara is playing nice. I don't think it was that tough of a decision to trade him when you take a step back. This team will be built around Saquon and I'd be willing to bet anyone on here a hamburger that they will draft a QB so their transition plan is in place for 2020 with Eli acting as mentor in 2019.

Jt mentioned the Giants didn't want Odell around a young QB for a variety of reasons. I think all signs point to getting a QB now and by 2020 you have your new Giants offense build around new QB and Saquon and Engram with some veteran leadership in Tate and whomever else they get with their $100M+ in cap room.

The Giants got the most out of Odell's value before it dropped and be in position to help speed up the rebuild.

Remember all this happy talk when Eli goes back to pass on 3rd and 10 and has as his choices Shepard, Sheppard, Fowler and Coleman. You can have the 7 Blocks of Granite on the line and they won't be able to block long enough for that crew to get open.

Beckham is 27 and was under contract. If "doesn't end well" means we don't re-sign him when his contract runs out at age 31 or 32, how is that not ending well.

Jawn can sugar coat this however he wishes. Nice man, no doubt a good lawyer, but a lousy, awful, terrible GM.


I define wasn't going to end well as in, I'd expect him to start complaining about a new contract by the end of this year, if not in a random Josina Anderson tweet around mid season. Particularly if there is a new QB in town in 2020, and an offense that will more focus on Barkley, he's not going to tie his incentives to that offense. I think from a business standpoint, it was not going to work out and he'd have forced the Giants to trade him, like Antonio Brown did. And odds are the return wouldn't be a 1st, 3rd, and player.
Why is John Mara chirping now...  
M.S. : 3/25/2019 3:25 pm : link
...about the OBJ trade?

Wasn't the time for talking the day of (or the day after) the trade?

I don't get it. And I'm not sure I want to get it.
RE: Ironically, I've always found  
trueblueinpw : 3/25/2019 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14355834 Chris684 said:
Quote:
the same people who hero-worship Beckham, are the same ones who really don't like Eli.

It's a position that I really could never understand a NYG fan getting to.


Word. I’ll add, I’m still waiting for the list owners better than Mara Tisch. People that kill Eli and Mara Tisch think what? Brady and the whore monger Kraft are something to behold? I’m 50 and it’s been a pretty good fucking run as a Giants fan. So of the malcontents here should switch over to the Jets and see how they like that.
RE: Why is John Mara chirping now...  
TrueBlue56 : 3/25/2019 4:20 pm : link
In comment 14356369 M.S. said:
Quote:
...about the OBJ trade?

Wasn't the time for talking the day of (or the day after) the trade?

I don't get it. And I'm not sure I want to get it.


Because he is at the league owners meetings in Phoenix, Arizona and the reporters are there covering it.
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