John Mara said the off-field things with Odel Beckham was “a factor” but not to the point where they felt they had to get rid of him. They felt his issues were “manageable.”
We gave up one of the most valuable non-QB players in the entire league for an unknown #17 overall rookie pick and an average starting safety. The off-the-field and the locker room stuff had a lot to do with it, and by that I really mean the "locker room stuff" AS MARA PERCEIVED IT. I really believe the players loved Odell and admired his work ethic and desire to win, but Mara saw him as insubordinate, crass, and self-entitled due to his old-school mentality about how professional football players are "supposed" to act.
This is horse shit. It is an old school mentality. If you make someone the highest paid receiver in the history of the NFL and a couple months later he goes on ESPN and says the things he said he doesn't want to be here anymore and you get him the fuck out. You don't send them to the place that he wants to be like LA you send them to fucking Cleveland or Buffalo. He is a piece of shit for doing that interview and saying the things he said. Goodbye glad he's gone.
I'm starting to like the way you're thinking, lately.
Great post.
It's more or less what I thought about 10 minutes after reading about the trade. First a WTF? then a calm down and look at it rationally. It helped that I didn't think that mega haul so many were dreaming of was realistic. I figured the Giants just wouldn't trade OBJ if the dream haul wasn't there. To me, it was more the shock that they actually traded him.
But, overall, I think it was a good, realistic haul at a decent time. there's no guarantee the haul would be better next year.
We gave up one of the most valuable non-QB players in the entire league for an unknown #17 overall rookie pick and an average starting safety. The off-the-field and the locker room stuff had a lot to do with it, and by that I really mean the "locker room stuff" AS MARA PERCEIVED IT. I really believe the players loved Odell and admired his work ethic and desire to win, but Mara saw him as insubordinate, crass, and self-entitled due to his old-school mentality about how professional football players are "supposed" to act.
This is horse shit. It is an old school mentality. If you make someone the highest paid receiver in the history of the NFL and a couple months later he goes on ESPN and says the things he said he doesn't want to be here anymore and you get him the fuck out. You don't send them to the place that he wants to be like LA you send them to fucking Cleveland or Buffalo. He is a piece of shit for doing that interview and saying the things he said. Goodbye glad he's gone.
The idea that they sent him somewhere out of punishment is a joke.
Punishment would be more wasted years here. He's going to a team that's won more games recently and a roster that can actually use his skills, and he'll probably be in the playoffs while we pretend the 2019 Giants actually matters.
RE: With the benefit of a couple of weeks hindsight Â
I think we all agree on one point. We can't judge the trade until after the draft. Let's see what that first and 3rd round pick produce. I happen to believe that Peppers will actually end up being better than Collins, particularly from a cost perspective it's not close.
But I think the Giants pulled the trigger on an Odell trade at the right time. Gettleman made a comment that I thought was a good one in his media tour last week. He said the price for putting a franchise tag on a player is 2 #1 picks and the last one to actually get it done was Sean Gilbert. Where (amazingly) the Redskins benefitted from someone else's stupid decision when the Panthers signed him and gave up 2 first rounders.
So realistically, when talking about acquiring a veteran player in a trade. The realistic asking price is a first rounder, a 2/3rd, and a player. That's a strong package to get back. I think the Giants did try to pry the 2nd overall from the Niners, but they wouldn't budge. So getting back a 1st, a 3rd (I wish they'd have gotten the better 3rd, but whatever) and Peppers (a young safety who was a first round talent) is actually a good package in reality. And I'm of the opinion the Giants will stay at 6 and draft and will use the #17 as a pivot spot to move up as another player slips past 10 and will package their other later picks to move up and grab someone.
However, all of this is predicated on the following assumption. This wasn't going to end well with Odell. Period. I think Antonio Brown opened the Giants eyes. Look at the contract that is being discussed now with Julio Jones at age 30. Odell is a volatile asset. But one which the past couple of years we've seen him go down with an ankle injury followed by a broken leg, and then the quad injury. He's a speed/shifty receiver who turns 27 this year. Considering the price tag he has now (the Giants did the negotiating for a club with the new deal) the right time to trade him was now. I was hoping to squeeze one more year out of him. But there is the litany of what ifs
- What if he gets hurt again?
- What if he looks at Brown and Jones contract and starts yelling he wants more?
- What if his last 4 game shut down was a further sign of things to come?
- What if he no longer can bring back a 1st, 3rd and starter?
I think Mara is playing nice. I don't think it was that tough of a decision to trade him when you take a step back. This team will be built around Saquon and I'd be willing to bet anyone on here a hamburger that they will draft a QB so their transition plan is in place for 2020 with Eli acting as mentor in 2019.
Jt mentioned the Giants didn't want Odell around a young QB for a variety of reasons. I think all signs point to getting a QB now and by 2020 you have your new Giants offense build around new QB and Saquon and Engram with some veteran leadership in Tate and whomever else they get with their $100M+ in cap room.
The Giants got the most out of Odell's value before it dropped and be in position to help speed up the rebuild.
Remember all this happy talk when Eli goes back to pass on 3rd and 10 and has as his choices Shepard, Sheppard, Fowler and Coleman. You can have the 7 Blocks of Granite on the line and they won't be able to block long enough for that crew to get open.
Beckham is 27 and was under contract. If "doesn't end well" means we don't re-sign him when his contract runs out at age 31 or 32, how is that not ending well.
Jawn can sugar coat this however he wishes. Nice man, no doubt a good lawyer, but a lousy, awful, terrible GM.
I would have been fine trading him to the Eagles Â
I didn’t think he had quite the same explosion last year. I think it was smart to move him when they did. Can use the picks on O or D line, which is better allocation of resources, and if it helps them land their future QB, even better. How many more years will Odell play at elite level? A half a step slower and he’s just good, but not special. Odds are he won’t be the same player when next QB is ready to make a run.
“Of course we want to keep our best players. Listen, I had many conversations with him. He had the stupid penalty in Philadelphia where he lifted his leg in the end zone [in a faux dog-urination scene] and I brought him into my office and I showed him the front page of the New York Post and said, ‘Is this what you want? Is this what you want your legacy to be?’ He looked at me and he said, ‘Well you know, I just don’t understand the celebration rules.’ I said, ‘Well you know you can’t do that!’
What a dumbass.
RE: RE: With the benefit of a couple of weeks hindsight Â
I think we all agree on one point. We can't judge the trade until after the draft. Let's see what that first and 3rd round pick produce. I happen to believe that Peppers will actually end up being better than Collins, particularly from a cost perspective it's not close.
But I think the Giants pulled the trigger on an Odell trade at the right time. Gettleman made a comment that I thought was a good one in his media tour last week. He said the price for putting a franchise tag on a player is 2 #1 picks and the last one to actually get it done was Sean Gilbert. Where (amazingly) the Redskins benefitted from someone else's stupid decision when the Panthers signed him and gave up 2 first rounders.
So realistically, when talking about acquiring a veteran player in a trade. The realistic asking price is a first rounder, a 2/3rd, and a player. That's a strong package to get back. I think the Giants did try to pry the 2nd overall from the Niners, but they wouldn't budge. So getting back a 1st, a 3rd (I wish they'd have gotten the better 3rd, but whatever) and Peppers (a young safety who was a first round talent) is actually a good package in reality. And I'm of the opinion the Giants will stay at 6 and draft and will use the #17 as a pivot spot to move up as another player slips past 10 and will package their other later picks to move up and grab someone.
However, all of this is predicated on the following assumption. This wasn't going to end well with Odell. Period. I think Antonio Brown opened the Giants eyes. Look at the contract that is being discussed now with Julio Jones at age 30. Odell is a volatile asset. But one which the past couple of years we've seen him go down with an ankle injury followed by a broken leg, and then the quad injury. He's a speed/shifty receiver who turns 27 this year. Considering the price tag he has now (the Giants did the negotiating for a club with the new deal) the right time to trade him was now. I was hoping to squeeze one more year out of him. But there is the litany of what ifs
- What if he gets hurt again?
- What if he looks at Brown and Jones contract and starts yelling he wants more?
- What if his last 4 game shut down was a further sign of things to come?
- What if he no longer can bring back a 1st, 3rd and starter?
I think Mara is playing nice. I don't think it was that tough of a decision to trade him when you take a step back. This team will be built around Saquon and I'd be willing to bet anyone on here a hamburger that they will draft a QB so their transition plan is in place for 2020 with Eli acting as mentor in 2019.
Jt mentioned the Giants didn't want Odell around a young QB for a variety of reasons. I think all signs point to getting a QB now and by 2020 you have your new Giants offense build around new QB and Saquon and Engram with some veteran leadership in Tate and whomever else they get with their $100M+ in cap room.
The Giants got the most out of Odell's value before it dropped and be in position to help speed up the rebuild.
Remember all this happy talk when Eli goes back to pass on 3rd and 10 and has as his choices Shepard, Sheppard, Fowler and Coleman. You can have the 7 Blocks of Granite on the line and they won't be able to block long enough for that crew to get open.
Beckham is 27 and was under contract. If "doesn't end well" means we don't re-sign him when his contract runs out at age 31 or 32, how is that not ending well.
Jawn can sugar coat this however he wishes. Nice man, no doubt a good lawyer, but a lousy, awful, terrible GM.
I define wasn't going to end well as in, I'd expect him to start complaining about a new contract by the end of this year, if not in a random Josina Anderson tweet around mid season. Particularly if there is a new QB in town in 2020, and an offense that will more focus on Barkley, he's not going to tie his incentives to that offense. I think from a business standpoint, it was not going to work out and he'd have forced the Giants to trade him, like Antonio Brown did. And odds are the return wouldn't be a 1st, 3rd, and player.
the same people who hero-worship Beckham, are the same ones who really don't like Eli.
It's a position that I really could never understand a NYG fan getting to.
Word. I’ll add, I’m still waiting for the list owners better than Mara Tisch. People that kill Eli and Mara Tisch think what? Brady and the whore monger Kraft are something to behold? I’m 50 and it’s been a pretty good fucking run as a Giants fan. So of the malcontents here should switch over to the Jets and see how they like that.
Quote:
We gave up one of the most valuable non-QB players in the entire league for an unknown #17 overall rookie pick and an average starting safety. The off-the-field and the locker room stuff had a lot to do with it, and by that I really mean the "locker room stuff" AS MARA PERCEIVED IT. I really believe the players loved Odell and admired his work ethic and desire to win, but Mara saw him as insubordinate, crass, and self-entitled due to his old-school mentality about how professional football players are "supposed" to act.
This is horse shit. It is an old school mentality. If you make someone the highest paid receiver in the history of the NFL and a couple months later he goes on ESPN and says the things he said he doesn't want to be here anymore and you get him the fuck out. You don't send them to the place that he wants to be like LA you send them to fucking Cleveland or Buffalo. He is a piece of shit for doing that interview and saying the things he said. Goodbye glad he's gone.
I'm starting to like the way you're thinking, lately.
It's more or less what I thought about 10 minutes after reading about the trade. First a WTF? then a calm down and look at it rationally. It helped that I didn't think that mega haul so many were dreaming of was realistic. I figured the Giants just wouldn't trade OBJ if the dream haul wasn't there. To me, it was more the shock that they actually traded him.
But, overall, I think it was a good, realistic haul at a decent time. there's no guarantee the haul would be better next year.
The tougher part was the public relations end of the decision and containing the fallout.
Quote:
We gave up one of the most valuable non-QB players in the entire league for an unknown #17 overall rookie pick and an average starting safety. The off-the-field and the locker room stuff had a lot to do with it, and by that I really mean the "locker room stuff" AS MARA PERCEIVED IT. I really believe the players loved Odell and admired his work ethic and desire to win, but Mara saw him as insubordinate, crass, and self-entitled due to his old-school mentality about how professional football players are "supposed" to act.
This is horse shit. It is an old school mentality. If you make someone the highest paid receiver in the history of the NFL and a couple months later he goes on ESPN and says the things he said he doesn't want to be here anymore and you get him the fuck out. You don't send them to the place that he wants to be like LA you send them to fucking Cleveland or Buffalo. He is a piece of shit for doing that interview and saying the things he said. Goodbye glad he's gone.
The idea that they sent him somewhere out of punishment is a joke.
Punishment would be more wasted years here. He's going to a team that's won more games recently and a roster that can actually use his skills, and he'll probably be in the playoffs while we pretend the 2019 Giants actually matters.
But I think the Giants pulled the trigger on an Odell trade at the right time. Gettleman made a comment that I thought was a good one in his media tour last week. He said the price for putting a franchise tag on a player is 2 #1 picks and the last one to actually get it done was Sean Gilbert. Where (amazingly) the Redskins benefitted from someone else's stupid decision when the Panthers signed him and gave up 2 first rounders.
So realistically, when talking about acquiring a veteran player in a trade. The realistic asking price is a first rounder, a 2/3rd, and a player. That's a strong package to get back. I think the Giants did try to pry the 2nd overall from the Niners, but they wouldn't budge. So getting back a 1st, a 3rd (I wish they'd have gotten the better 3rd, but whatever) and Peppers (a young safety who was a first round talent) is actually a good package in reality. And I'm of the opinion the Giants will stay at 6 and draft and will use the #17 as a pivot spot to move up as another player slips past 10 and will package their other later picks to move up and grab someone.
However, all of this is predicated on the following assumption. This wasn't going to end well with Odell. Period. I think Antonio Brown opened the Giants eyes. Look at the contract that is being discussed now with Julio Jones at age 30. Odell is a volatile asset. But one which the past couple of years we've seen him go down with an ankle injury followed by a broken leg, and then the quad injury. He's a speed/shifty receiver who turns 27 this year. Considering the price tag he has now (the Giants did the negotiating for a club with the new deal) the right time to trade him was now. I was hoping to squeeze one more year out of him. But there is the litany of what ifs
- What if he gets hurt again?
- What if he looks at Brown and Jones contract and starts yelling he wants more?
- What if his last 4 game shut down was a further sign of things to come?
- What if he no longer can bring back a 1st, 3rd and starter?
I think Mara is playing nice. I don't think it was that tough of a decision to trade him when you take a step back. This team will be built around Saquon and I'd be willing to bet anyone on here a hamburger that they will draft a QB so their transition plan is in place for 2020 with Eli acting as mentor in 2019.
Jt mentioned the Giants didn't want Odell around a young QB for a variety of reasons. I think all signs point to getting a QB now and by 2020 you have your new Giants offense build around new QB and Saquon and Engram with some veteran leadership in Tate and whomever else they get with their $100M+ in cap room.
The Giants got the most out of Odell's value before it dropped and be in position to help speed up the rebuild.
Beckham is 27 and was under contract. If "doesn't end well" means we don't re-sign him when his contract runs out at age 31 or 32, how is that not ending well.
Jawn can sugar coat this however he wishes. Nice man, no doubt a good lawyer, but a lousy, awful, terrible GM.
When OBJ brings a toy fire hydrant to pee on in the end zone, then the anti OBJ people will come out.
When OBJ brings a toy fire hydrant to pee on in the end zone, then the anti OBJ people will come out.
Well, Of course.
What a dumbass.
Quote:
I think we all agree on one point. We can't judge the trade until after the draft. Let's see what that first and 3rd round pick produce. I happen to believe that Peppers will actually end up being better than Collins, particularly from a cost perspective it's not close.
But I think the Giants pulled the trigger on an Odell trade at the right time. Gettleman made a comment that I thought was a good one in his media tour last week. He said the price for putting a franchise tag on a player is 2 #1 picks and the last one to actually get it done was Sean Gilbert. Where (amazingly) the Redskins benefitted from someone else's stupid decision when the Panthers signed him and gave up 2 first rounders.
So realistically, when talking about acquiring a veteran player in a trade. The realistic asking price is a first rounder, a 2/3rd, and a player. That's a strong package to get back. I think the Giants did try to pry the 2nd overall from the Niners, but they wouldn't budge. So getting back a 1st, a 3rd (I wish they'd have gotten the better 3rd, but whatever) and Peppers (a young safety who was a first round talent) is actually a good package in reality. And I'm of the opinion the Giants will stay at 6 and draft and will use the #17 as a pivot spot to move up as another player slips past 10 and will package their other later picks to move up and grab someone.
However, all of this is predicated on the following assumption. This wasn't going to end well with Odell. Period. I think Antonio Brown opened the Giants eyes. Look at the contract that is being discussed now with Julio Jones at age 30. Odell is a volatile asset. But one which the past couple of years we've seen him go down with an ankle injury followed by a broken leg, and then the quad injury. He's a speed/shifty receiver who turns 27 this year. Considering the price tag he has now (the Giants did the negotiating for a club with the new deal) the right time to trade him was now. I was hoping to squeeze one more year out of him. But there is the litany of what ifs
- What if he gets hurt again?
- What if he looks at Brown and Jones contract and starts yelling he wants more?
- What if his last 4 game shut down was a further sign of things to come?
- What if he no longer can bring back a 1st, 3rd and starter?
I think Mara is playing nice. I don't think it was that tough of a decision to trade him when you take a step back. This team will be built around Saquon and I'd be willing to bet anyone on here a hamburger that they will draft a QB so their transition plan is in place for 2020 with Eli acting as mentor in 2019.
Jt mentioned the Giants didn't want Odell around a young QB for a variety of reasons. I think all signs point to getting a QB now and by 2020 you have your new Giants offense build around new QB and Saquon and Engram with some veteran leadership in Tate and whomever else they get with their $100M+ in cap room.
The Giants got the most out of Odell's value before it dropped and be in position to help speed up the rebuild.
Remember all this happy talk when Eli goes back to pass on 3rd and 10 and has as his choices Shepard, Sheppard, Fowler and Coleman. You can have the 7 Blocks of Granite on the line and they won't be able to block long enough for that crew to get open.
Beckham is 27 and was under contract. If "doesn't end well" means we don't re-sign him when his contract runs out at age 31 or 32, how is that not ending well.
Jawn can sugar coat this however he wishes. Nice man, no doubt a good lawyer, but a lousy, awful, terrible GM.
I define wasn't going to end well as in, I'd expect him to start complaining about a new contract by the end of this year, if not in a random Josina Anderson tweet around mid season. Particularly if there is a new QB in town in 2020, and an offense that will more focus on Barkley, he's not going to tie his incentives to that offense. I think from a business standpoint, it was not going to work out and he'd have forced the Giants to trade him, like Antonio Brown did. And odds are the return wouldn't be a 1st, 3rd, and player.
Wasn't the time for talking the day of (or the day after) the trade?
I don't get it. And I'm not sure I want to get it.
It's a position that I really could never understand a NYG fan getting to.
Word. I’ll add, I’m still waiting for the list owners better than Mara Tisch. People that kill Eli and Mara Tisch think what? Brady and the whore monger Kraft are something to behold? I’m 50 and it’s been a pretty good fucking run as a Giants fan. So of the malcontents here should switch over to the Jets and see how they like that.
Wasn't the time for talking the day of (or the day after) the trade?
I don't get it. And I'm not sure I want to get it.
Because he is at the league owners meetings in Phoenix, Arizona and the reporters are there covering it.